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U.S. Coronavirus Cases Surpass 1.1 Million People, More Than 66,000 Deaths; Protesters Demand California Governor Open Beaches; Armed Protesters Call For End Of Michigan Governor's Emergency Orders; Trump On Kim Jong-un: "Glad To See He Is Back And Well"; Warren Buffett Says U.S. Will Recover From Virus Crisis; Texas Gov. Allows Restaurants To Reopen With 25 Percent Capacity Limit; White House Blocks Fauci From Testifying Before House Committee. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 02, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[18:00:17]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Thanks so much for being here. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And today across the United States, the number of people infected with the coronavirus has passed 1.1 million. Sadly, more than 66,000 people have died.

But now in some of the country's hotspots like New York and Louisiana, officials there are reporting falling numbers of new cases every day. Also this weekend, more than half the country, 32 states are taking steps towards some level of reopening for businesses.

It ranges from State Parks reopening in some areas to restaurants, shopping malls and gyms opening in others.

People packed onto the National Mall in Washington, D.C. today despite city officials there urging them not to.

The crowds turned out for a flyover by the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds. CNN reporter said they saw a lot of people practicing the recommended social distancing, but others, not so much.

People in New York City also headed outside today. This is in Central Park, a sign at the park entrance there trying to help people keep apart.

The city says police officers on foot and bicycles will enforce social distancing rules.

Now parts of California will loosen restrictions come Monday, but not everywhere. People turned out in large numbers at the state capitol and even near the popular Huntington Beach pier on Friday.

They were protesting, furious at California officials who plan to keep many businesses and beaches closed.

CNN's Paul Vercammen is there right now in Huntington Beach. Paul, what are people there telling you today. PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What they're telling me is they

still feel like Orange County got singled out by the Governor of California for shutting down just the beaches in Orange County and how are shut down? Look at this scene behind me.

Eerie quiet, desolate, abandoned Huntington Beach, Surf City. The lifeguards and the police have been telling people via bullhorn, you need to get off the beach.

They did let hundreds of surfers out earlier today, but they said, in the end, you can't be on the beach.

Now, within the last 24 hours, there was a knock down drag out fight in the county courthouse. They were talking via phone. This was Huntington Beach, Dana Point and others arguing that the beaches should be reopened at least temporarily.

The Attorney General, the Deputy for the Governor saying look, we're in the middle of a pandemic here. We need to socially distance. Nevertheless, the City Attorney of Huntington Beach wanted to make it a point and he said he felt that again, the Governor was allowing San Diego County and other counties needs to be open, but not theirs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL GATES, CITY ATTORNEY FOR HUNTINGTON BEACH, CALIFORNIA: Huntington Beach has done an absolutely remarkable job. And notwithstanding the Governor issues this order shutting our beaches.

We feel targeted. I think it's punitive. And if it was really a matter of statewide concern, which is his purview, he would have closed all the beaches up and down the state, but he didn't.

He is picking on Orange County. He is picking on Huntington Beach. And the empirical data, the data about spread and cases and deaths here in Huntington Beach, Orange County, absolutely do not support the beach closure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: There are three million people in Orange County. They have 50 COVID-19 deaths. And as we said, the Deputy Attorney General Though pointing out that you have to maintain the social distancing, you don't want people from one county going into others in that heated argument.

For now, behind me, the beaches are closed -- Ana.

CABRERA: I can imagine it's very hard to resist the beach on a day like that. It looks beautiful. Thank you, Paul Vercammen for that reporting.

In Texas, stores, restaurants, movie theaters, malls, libraries and museums are reopening.

Governor Greg Abbott says his plan to get Texas back up and running will come in phases. The first phase, limiting occupancy at these businesses to just 25 percent and the Governor also says he hopes to see places like barber shops, salons, gyms and bars opened by mid-May.

CNN's Ed Lavandera joins us now in Dallas. Ed, you know, you've been talking with small business owners, how do they feel about reopening and what are they doing to make sure it's done safely?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Ana, well, the thing that is really striking about how this phased reopening is working in Texas is you can really tell that just business owners are trying to figure it out and it is a patchwork of ideas that is unfolding everywhere you look.

So, everybody is opening up under these guidelines in their own different ways, or some aren't even opening at all.

But the timing of this phased reopening here in Texas is a little bit concerning because over the last few days, we have seen a large spike, some of the largest spikes in new coronavirus cases so far.

[18:05:08]

LAVANDERA: Today, near -- more than 1,200 new coronavirus cases being reported here in Texas, but that also comes as the number of tests being administered and recorded has also jumped rather significantly as well.

But the underlying part of all of this is that it is causing a great deal of anxiety as to how all of this is going to unfold because it is going to take time to see the effects of this phased reopening is going to have on the spread of the virus throughout the state. So, there is a great deal of concern.

As I mentioned, some businesses not reopening, some saying it's not worth just 25 percent of the business, the overhead and the costs are simply too great.

But we did find one incredibly unique way for a restaurant here. We're in the Bishop Arts District of Dallas, a popular area, Ana. This would normally be filled with people. It's been very quiet throughout the day, but one restaurant that decided not to open allowed something rather special to happen here this afternoon.

Meet Natalie and Bill Allen. They have been married for, Ana, less than an hour. We just bumped into them and they were able to scrap their wedding plans that they had spent months working on over the last few months. They were supposed to get married next weekend in Austin. They scrapped all of that and got married here this afternoon in the patio of a closed restaurant.

CABRERA: Well, they have a story, don't they?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATALIE ALLEN, JUST MARRIED: ... Congress Hotel in Austin, and that's where I'd always wanted to get married. So, I was really excited about it and even he fell in love with the space. So, we had this giant celebration and a big honeymoon planned, but this felt even more special than I thought it was and it was just surreal. I am so happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: So, it was just the couple and their parents and that's it and that's how one business was using their space here this afternoon -- Ana.

CABRERA: Talk about a wedding story for the years to come. Ed Lavandera, thank you.

In Michigan, hundreds of protesters, some of them armed gathered at the state capitol this week. They demanded that Michigan reopen for business immediately.

Those protesters in the Capitol pushing back on Governor Gretchen Whitmer's extension of her emergency powers and Michigan's shelter-at- home order through May 28th.

And then President Trump on Friday weighing in as well on Twitter, writing, "The Governor of Michigan should give a little and put out the fire. These are very good people, but they are angry. They want their lives back again safely. See them, talk to them, make a deal."

Now, the White House says the President was standing up for the protesters right to peacefully assemble.

Let's bring in CNN's Ryan Young in Lansing, Michigan. Ryan, what's the latest you're hearing from Governor Whitmer?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, the Governor actually is arguing that she was doing that to save their lives. If you think about the state and the numbers they were dealing with, talking about more than 40,000 people testing positive for COVID-19 and more than 4,000 people lost their lives to this virus, a fast- moving virus, obviously.

And of course, Ana, we talked a few weeks ago when we were in Detroit, and people were just trying to get away to do something. In fact, we're talking to healthcare workers who were saying the hospitals there were being hit very hard.

Well, these protesters showed up and one of the first questions we got were, were they allowed to have guns on the inside? Yes, it's an open carry. You can carry a gun inside the State Capitol, but you can't bring sides in there.

But these images stand out to so many people across the country. It was heated some times. I felt sorry for some of the law enforcement officers in there because obviously, there was no social distancing.

But the whole idea here, the Governor was talking about is trying to save lives. That stay-at-home order she thinks is something that is helping to flatten the curve. In fact, listen to her own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): We're not in a political crisis where we should just negotiate and find some common ground here. We're in a public health crisis. We're in the midst of a global pandemic that has already killed almost 4,000 people in our state.

We have to listen not to pollsters and not to people with political agendas, but listen to epidemiologists, and public healthcare experts. Listen to our business leaders who are worried about making sure that they've got all the PPE and protocols to keep their employees safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Ana, you heard her say, almost 4,000 deaths. This is the thing about COVID-19, every single day. there's an update and more people have lost their lives.

You know, there are certain areas of the state that are absolutely struggling with this. But at the same time, the Governor believes this is the way to move forward, by keeping people social distancing, by keeping businesses closed.

We see the impact in the area that we are because a lot of the places that would be open on a Saturday, especially with a beautiful day that it is, they are closed.

The whole idea here is hopefully to keep more people safe in a state that's number three right now, in terms of total cases.

CABRERA: And Ryan, furthermore, what else can you tell us about the local impact there in Lansing where you are?

[18:10:06]

YOUNG: Yes, absolutely. Look, Michigan State is here, a big, beautiful campus.

We've been driving through that area, a lot of college kids smiling, walking around in caps and gowns for the graduation weekend. And as you can understand, a lot of those kids were looking forward to having that four years pay off and be able to stand there. Kids taking pictures together. We've even seen parties here.

But at the same time, no graduation because obviously, they don't want to bring all of those people together in one place. No big announcement yet in terms of when they will actually be able to have that commencement.

But this is happening all across the country. When you think about it, the idea that so many kids are missing their graduation, high school and college. Man, people worked really hard for this. But at the same time, you understand with a global pandemic like this, you don't want to bring all of those people together at the same time.

CABRERA: Hopefully, they can have multiple parties to commemorate their graduation when the timing is right. YOUNG: Absolutely.

CABRERA: Ryan Young, thank you for your reporting.

Remdesivir, up until a few weeks ago, maybe even just a few days ago, it was probably a drug you had never heard of. Well, now the FDA has authorized it for emergency use on some coronavirus patients.

Our medical experts are here next to tell you what this drug is and the indications that may help some patients. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:05]

CABRERA: The FDA is authorizing an experimental drug for emergency use in coronavirus patients. The drug, remdesivir has been getting a lot of attention after a preliminary trial found it helps patients recover more quickly.

And now, a new study in Washington State is showing such positive results they are no longer even using the placebo. Here's Sara Sidner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. FRANCIS REDO, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, EVERGREEN HEALTH: It was now everybody that was potentially at risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Dr. Francis Redo is an Infectious Disease specialist on the frontline of the war on coronavirus from the first confirmed COVID-19 death in the U.S., Redo and Evergreen Health in Kirkland, Washington are now at the forefront of finding a treatment.

They're taking part in a clinical trial of remdesivir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REDO: This is an intravenous medication that's given for 10 days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER (voice over): After it was administered to the sickest COVID-19 patients, Dr. Redo says it showed real promise and that was just Phase 1 of the trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER (on camera): When you go into a second phase of the trial, what does that mean?

REDO: So, the second phase is going to use this as the backbone. So, every patient will receive remdesivir because the first trial, act one showed benefit, it shorten the course of illness, and almost statistically significantly showed a decrease in mortality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER (voice over): In Phase 2, some patients will also get a companion drug called baricitinib, which is used to treat rheumatoid arthritis.

But every COVID-19 patient in the trial will now be treated with remdesivir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER (on camera): Why is that a big deal?

REDO: That's huge. This is the first scientifically proven beneficial drug in terms of the treatment of SARS-CoV-2.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER (voice over): Trials of the drug are happening across 68 sites. More than a thousand people have taken part. The result, patients recovered 31 percent more quickly with remdesivir. That translates to four fewer days of suffering in the hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Although with 31 percent improvement doesn't seem like a knockout hundred percent, it is a very important proof of concept. Because what it has proven is that a drug can block this virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER (voice over): Remdesivir was originally created as a potential drug to treat Ebola. Dr. Redo was also on the frontlines of that battle, traveling to Africa. He hopes the drug works this time around.

But before the second trial was done, the President alongside the CEO of Gilead, who makes the drug announced the FDA's emergency use authorization for remdesivir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL O'DAY, CEO, GILEAD SCIENCES: We'll be working with the government to determine how best to distribute that within the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER (voice over): The FDA acting unusually quickly. For now, the drug is being used only in hospitals on the sickest COVID-19 patients. It is not a cure.

Some of the patients treated with the drug still died, but others felt better faster. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER (on camera): So this could be one major tool in the fight against coronavirus.

REDO: Correct.

SIDNER: Wow.

REDO: But it all has to be proven. We all have to do the science, the careful science.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: I want to bring in the former Acting Director of the C.D.C., Dr. Richard Besser, and physician and public health specialist, Dr. Saju Matthew.

Dr. Besser, I want to start with you because you actually traveled to Africa during the Ebola outbreak and remdesivir was originally created for Ebola, but it didn't work. Why does it seem to have an impact then on COVID-19?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF C.D.C.: Yes, I mean, it's a good question. When viral drugs are developed or any drugs for infectious diseases, it turns out they work against some organisms and not others.

What it appears that remdesivir does is it interferes with how the virus multiplies. Viruses take over ourselves and they multiply and then they spread through the body, and this drug interferes with its ability to do that in a way that gives hope that there could be treatments that significantly improve the outcome for sick patients with COVID-19.

CABRERA: Dr. Matthew, Dr. Fauci expressed great optimism as he was reporting that in a clinical trial, remdesivir sped up recovery by 31 percent.

The group that took remdesivir recovered in 11 days versus 15 days for the placebo group, how significant is this?

DR. SAJU MATTHEW, PHYSICIAN AND PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: Very significant. Good evening, Ana.

You know, I was just talking to an ICU friend of mine who treats COVID-19 patients right before I got on air. For anyone that's been in the ICU and I've been to the ICU multiple times when I was a resident, we're talking about the sickest patients in the ICU.

So, for any day or hour that you're spending less in a hospital setting or in the ICU setting is huge. A lot of our COVID-19 patients, Ana, they are intubated, the ramifications of being on a tube long term are huge. Vocal cord paralysis, decreased swallowing.

[18:20:03] MATTHEW: If you're in the ICU, you can die of ARDS - acute respiratory

distress syndrome, septic shock, multiple infections called nosocomial infections.

One day less than the ICU is huge. Four days less is very significant.

CABRERA: Dr. Besser, what about possible side effects? Because as we recall, that was a big issue when it came to hydroxychloroquine.

BESSER: Yes, I think that's a really important question. You know, although this was a decent sized study with a thousand patients, half of them getting remdesivir, that's not enough to really be able to see whether there could be some safety concerns. So, as this drug goes forward through the emergency use authorization,

that's something they'll be looking at, as well as looking to see whether the drug has potential for patients who aren't quite as sick as the patients in this study.

A real challenge is going to be scaling up production, since there aren't any other drugs at this time that have been shown to have value in treating patients.

CABRERA: Dr. Matthew, Dr. Besser just touched on this, but we know that once this is approved, it is only going to be given to the sickest of patients and we do know it was approved for emergency use just last night.

But is there reason to believe this could help prevent people with mild symptoms, from developing more severe symptoms like Tamiflu does for the flu?

MATTHEW: Good question, Ana. Tamiflu is a medication that I use all the time as a primary care physician. The convenience of Tamiflu is that you can give it as a pill and you can give it to patients as soon as you suspect that they have flu like symptoms.

With remdesivir, it is an intravenous drug, and as Dr. Besser mentioned, yes, these are -- this has to be given in a hospital setting and there are side effects to the medication like increased liver enzymes, decreased blood pressure.

So can this medication at some point be given to patients who are recovering at home like Tamiflu? It possibly can. You can alter, if you will, the molecular structure of remdesivir and actually convert it into a pill form.

So, I think that down the road, once we start seeing better data from remdesivir, that perhaps we could have a pill like form of remdesivir that we could give patients who are recovering at home with mild symptoms.

CABRERA: Let's pivot, because this week, former Director of the C.D.C., Dr. Thomas Frieden said, we are over the worst phase of this pandemic. But then he also said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, FORMER DIRECTOR OF C.D.C.: The pandemic is bad and

what we have to come to terms with is that it's just beginning.

This is on the order of the 1918-1919 influenza pandemic. That's how bad it is. It is the worst health threat in a hundred years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We know the Spanish Flu had a second wave that ended up being deadlier than the first. Dr. Besser, how can we both be past the worst stage and also have this be as bad as the Spanish Flu.

BESSER: Yes, you know, I think what Dr. Frieden is pointing out is that we can't be complacent. And we don't know the cycles that this virus is going to have as it as it continues to go through communities and around the globe.

With the Spanish Flu, yes, when it came back in a second wave, it had mutated. There were changes in terms of how people were interacting. So, you know, as the economy opens up and people are doing more, if the virus comes back, if it's with -- at the same time as influenza, we could have a bad wave, and we have to be ready for that.

We have to be paying close attention, and that brings us back to what we've all been talking about for weeks, the need to be able to do testing, to do data, to be able to look at populations, not just overall, but the populations that are getting hit the hardest -- black Americans, Latinos.

We can't take our eye off of these challenges, and especially, you know, I just want to raise one more issue about remdesivir. It's going to be in short supply when it first comes out, and we need to make sure that it gets to all patients in a fair way, not just those who are higher income in certain areas.

CABRERA: A good point there. Dr. Richard Besser, Dr. Saju Matthew, I really appreciate both of you being here with us. Thank you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:57]

CABRERA: Now to some breaking news. President Trump tweeting this afternoon on the status of Kim Jong-un after weeks of speculation about the North Korean leader's health.

Let's get right to CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House. Jeremy, what are we hearing from the President?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, in the last hour, President Trump appears to have confirmed that Kim Jong-un is indeed alive and well.

The President retweeting images that were released by North Korean state media yesterday showing Kim Jong-un allegedly attending a ribbon cutting ceremony for a new factory.

The President tweeting, "I for one am glad to see he is back and well."

So, first of all, the news there that President Trump appears to be confirming that Kim Jong-un is indeed alive and well after about three weeks of not seeing any images or video of the North Korean leader and amid all of these reports that Kim Jong-un was perhaps ill.

We, of course, reported that U.S. officials, U.S. intelligence officials were monitoring these reports about the potential ill health of the North Korean leader, but the President's tweet here saying that he is glad to see that Kim Jong-un is back.

[18:30:00]

He's already facing some criticism, including from a Republican congressman, Congressman Adam Kinzinger, tweeting, "Not me, I prefer him dead and gone. He's pure evil." And that is the reaction from one Republican congressman so far.

Of course, Congressman Kinzinger appears to be referring to the fact that Kim Jong-un is a noted abuser of human rights. His country has jailed and imprisoned people at a wide, wide rate, put people in gulags in that country. Of course, and Kim Jong-un himself has been responsible for purging and murdering many people who were formerly in his government's leadership.

President Trump, though, we know has really focused on flattery and charm in his attempts to broker some kind of a deal with North Korea. He has met with North Korean leader three times, so far, in his presidency. But, of course, those diplomatic efforts, so far, have yielded no concrete progress from North Korea in terms of denuclearize. Ana.

CABRERA: Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thank you.

Up next, restaurants have been especially hit hard by the economic chaos caused by the coronavirus pandemic. But as some now start to reopen, there are new economic hurdles for these businesses to stay afloat. You're alive in the CNN newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:48]

CABRERA: Some words of hope and encouragement today from Warren Buffett, the billionaire businessman who has long been optimistic about the economy and the stock market. He says he is convinced America will recover from this pandemic. Buffett who's lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Cold War, 9/11 and the 2008 Great Recession says that in every one of those cases, it seemed like times were bleak, but the nation recovered eventually.

With a number of businesses now reopening some restaurants across the country are struggling to rehire workers. Some of whom might make more money being unemployed. Here's CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KURT HUFFMAN, OWNER, CHEFSTABLE GROUP: It's very visceral experience to try to create something with somebody and so it just feels incredibly powerful to have to shut it all down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT(voice over): It's been over a month since Kurt Huffman close 20 of his restaurants, furloughing 700 employees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUFFMAN: I apologize, I'm going to just take a second here to ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH(voice over): His emotions still raw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUFFMAN: Clearly it's still weighing on me a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH(voice over): COVID-19 wreaking havoc on businesses and employees. Tens of millions of Americans already filed for unemployment. Millions more are expected.

But as some states reopen, businesses are starting to rehire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUFFMAN: Once the $600 federal money started arriving, we just noticed that it was almost impossible to get people to come back to work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH(voice over): The federal stimulus gives unemployed workers an extra $600 a week through July. Unemployment now pays equal to or more than average weekly wages in 38 states including Oregon, we're Huffman owns restaurants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUFFMAN: Our employees are confronted with a decision which is, do I want to go back in to work an environment that I'm not exactly positive is safe, because there's no testing available and make less money. So the obvious answer is, no way, why would you do that. I wouldn't do that if I was them.

HEIDI SHIERHOLZ, SENIOR ECONOMIST, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: Lots of low wage workers, frontline workers who lost their jobs really quickly due to social distancing measures, in some cases, those workers can actually earn more on unemployment than they were in their old jobs, which does just highlight we had a wage problem in these jobs before this crisis ever happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH(voice over): In Minnesota, Christian Ochsendorf owns five Dunn Brothers Coffee shops, revenue is down 85 percent and he furloughed 46 of his 60 employees. But slowly he's coming back online.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIAN OCHSENDORF, FRANCHISE OWNER, DUNN BROTHERS COFFEE: We have been trying to bring people back on, especially our key employees because I mean it costs us about $3,500 per employee to train them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH(voice over): But employees face new challenges beyond health concerns like homeschooling kids or taking care of loved ones. And with limited and uncertain work hours to offer, Ochsendorf says rehiring has been more challenging.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OCHSENDORF: That's be like any other employer that's paying more in wages, where would that employee go? They're going to do what's best for their family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH(voice over): Minnesota plans to lift its stay-at-home order next week, while Oregon continues to evaluate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: Do you expect that even if your restaurants may be able to open at a greater capacity that you'll still have trouble bringing people back?

HUFFMAN: It's like, do I want to reopen in a context where I have to ask my employees to come back to work and take a pay cut. I don't think it's fair to ask people to come back when there's no testing available.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH (voice over): Vanessa Yurkevich, CNN New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: I want to take you to Texas now where restaurants are reopening this weekend for dine in service as part of the state's phase one reopening plan. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott allowed his shelter at home order to expire which gave the green light for restaurants, shopping malls, movie theaters, all to operate with a strict 25 percent capacity limit.

Now, this comes as the number of new confirmed cases in that state has not seen a 14 day downward trend.

[18:40:00]

I'm going to bring in restaurant owner and chef, Tim Love, in Fort Worth. He owns more than 15 restaurants across the U.S. with the majority of those in Texas including the beloved Lonesome Dove Western Bistro. Tim, good to have you here with us. You reopen nine restaurants just yesterday, how did it go for you? How was business?

TIM LOVE, RESTAURANT OWNER, WITH 12+ LOCATIONS IN TEXAS: Business was great. Business was great and it was good to get back and hear the normal sounds of the clinging and clanging of restaurants. I actually cooked on the line at Lonesome Dove last night and plan to do the same this evening. But the main thing is we're just excited to be able to get back and get back in a safe way.

CABRERA: So how is your work and the dining experience different now than before this pandemic?

LOVE: Well, we definitely have a new normal and to be frank it's kind of nice that we're at 25 percent capacity right now because it allows my team to get back and understand the new normal. Get our safety protocols in place to make sure that our employees are safe and then in turn that our guests will be safe as they're dining.

CABRERA: So we're looking at some pictures and we saw your employees with their arms out in one of those pictures. Obviously, the six foot rule comes to mind there. We saw an example of what looked like somebody taking another person's temperature, can you walk us through the procedures you've implemented in terms of the safety and precautions that you're taking?

LOVE: Absolutely. So when all of my employees come in, we take their temperatures and log them each day to make sure that we know who's working and making sure that they're good on the way in. And then when our guests arrive, we do the same thing. We take your temperature. We ask for your name and email.

So that way if we do come into a position where somebody does have COVID or we find out two days later one of our guests may have had COVID and they call in and let us know that we can let other people know that maybe they need to go get a test and make sure that they're OK. What we're trying to do is just provide an environment that's as safe as possible with all of the time technology and knowledge that we have now.

And the data shows what we're doing is over and above and like I said it's great that now we're at 25 percent, so it's a little bit slower paced for us. Allowing the new normal and getting our team really acclimated to the new protocols that I've put into place at all of the restaurants to make sure that not only can we have a good time, which is very important in the hospitality industry, but more importantly, that we're doing it while we're safe. CABRERA: Clearly you have a glass half full mentality, which I

commend. But there is another reality or another side of the coin, there's a different analogy here with the 25 percent capacity limit right now. I want you to hear what another Dallas restaurant owner had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN RODARTE, CO-OWNER, BETO AND SON RESTAURANT: It's been extremely stressful. I mean, we're not going to make a dime out of this at all. It's 25 percent of the revenue, a hundred percent of the cost. We are really doing it for our staff family to make sure they're taken care of and just hoping to make it on the day by day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Twenty-five percent of the revenue, 100 percent of the cost, how sustainable is your business, long-term, if 25 percent capacity becomes the new normal?

LOVE: (Inaudible) 25 percent forever, which we don't really anticipate. This is the reason why we're putting all of these safety measures in place. So we move forward from 25 percent to 50 percent and eventually to 100 percent, with new safety protocols, which is what my goal is right now.

But obviously at 25 percent, you rearrange the business model. But we're not looking towards that right now. We're looking towards getting people back to work, getting them excited, which my team is very excited and my entire management team stayed with me through all this. They're excited to bring their teams back.

And right now we're focusing on keeping people safe and proving that we can have a great time while doing the safety protocols and keep moving forward. That's what we want to do.

CABRERA: You touched on this earlier when it comes to the contact tracing and tracking people down should somebody come down with coronavirus, be infected. Can you talk more about your plan if one of your restaurant employees does contract the coronavirus in the coming weeks? Will you have to shut down again?

LOVE: Well, we don't plan to because we're going to catch that before they get into the space. We had all of our employees tested. So we feel pretty confident there. Then, of course, you take the temperature every day.

But if somebody does come down with the coronavirus, then we're going to send them to the medical officials and have them get treated. And then those of them that were around them would go to the same get tested again and make sure that they're OK. It's exactly what we wanted. That's the reason why we want to record everything.

We want to be as safe as possible and we feel like we're going way above the safety protocols that the state of Texas putting into place and the city of Fort Worth has put into place, in particular. We're doing all that we can to keep people safe and people are enjoying themselves and feeling safe at our places.

CABRERA: You own more than a dozen restaurants, as I mentioned, so I want to ask you a bigger picture question. Do you think the coronavirus pandemic has permanently reshaped the U.S. restaurant business at this point?

[18:45:00]

LOVE: At this moment, absolutely. That's what we're doing. So now we're rewriting the rules and trying to get better. We want to be out there and want to serve people. That's what we do. We love serving people. And so we have to be creative and figure out ways to make people feel safe and also put safety protocols in so that the new normal becomes great again.

CABRERA: Well, Chef Tim Love, I wish you continued success. Thank you for taking the time and our best to everybody there in Texas.

LOVE: Thank you very much. You all have a great day.

CABRERA: You too. Thank you.

Up next, the White House is blocking Dr. Anthony Fauci from testifying before a House committee next week. Is that legal? CNN Legal Analyst Elie Honig will explain. Cross exam is next.

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[18:50:23]

CABRERA: After the White House blocked the nation's top infectious disease expert from testifying before House lawmakers next week on the coronavirus response, we're now learning Dr. Anthony Fauci will appear before the Senate Health Education Labor and Pensions Committee on May 12th. This is according to an aide to Chairman and Sen. Lamar Alexander.

Let's get to CNN Legal Analyst Elie Honig for our weekly cross exam segment. And Elie, one viewer wants to know what can Congress do when a witness refuses to testify or the White House orders a witness not to testify.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So ordinarily, Congress has the subpoena power. Now, subpoenas, of course, are supposed to be mandatory. They require a person to produce evidence or testimony. However, this administration time and again has simply defied Congress, in particular, the democratically controlled House of Representatives. We saw it with Muller. We saw it with impeachment and now we're starting to see it with coronavirus and Dr. Fauci.

Now, interestingly, this very issue is in front of the federal courts right now. It's the Don McGahn case. And the question there is will the courts forced the executive branch to comply with a subpoena from Congress or the House?

Now, the Court of Appeals in D.C. initially answered that question, no. They said this is a political battle. It's between Congress and the White House. We will not get involved. But then the Court of Appeals took a really unusual move and said, we're actually going to rehear that case and they heard new argument just a few days ago on Tuesday, they should be ruling soon and that case could end up in the Supreme Court.

Ultimately on this case has enormous implications for congressional oversight as we could see with Dr. Fauci. And this will determine whether Congress really and truly can get answers and accountability from the executive branch.

CABRERA: So we will be watching closely to what happens on Tuesday. Meantime, this past Wednesday, President Trump threatened to withhold federal funds from cities that limit cooperation between local law enforcement and federal immigration authorities often referred to as sanctuary cities. And so when viewer asks, "Can the President legally withhold federal coronavirus relief funds from states that allow sanctuary cities?"

HONIG: So, Ana, it's tough talk from the President, but it's really an empty threat. Now, federal funds can come with strings attached. The federal government can say to the States, we'll give you this money but only if you adopt a certain policy that we like.

But there has to be some relationship, some connection between the federal money and the policy. Now, the leading case on this is from 1987, where the federal government said we're going to hold back federal highway funding unless you, States, raise your legal drinking age to 21. And the Supreme Court said that's completely fine, because there's an obvious connection between highway safety on the one hand the funds and raising the drinking age on the other hand.

But here, however, there is absolutely no relationship, no connection between coronavirus relief funds and immigration policy or sanctuary cities. So, Ana, if the President follows through here, I think it's very unlikely to stand up in court.

CABRERA: Now Michael Flynn was back in the news this week. Lawyers for the President's former National Security Advisor made public a note from then counterintelligence director at the FBI, they'll pre step, and Flynn's lawyer say this note is proof the FBI set Flynn up to lie in a 2017 interview about conversations with Russia.

So here's our viewer question. "Will the new information about the FBI's investigation of Michael Flynn lead to his exoneration?"

HONIG: So, Ana, the new information does not truly exonerate Michael Flynn. Viewers will remember Michael Flynn pled guilty as part of the Mueller case to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russia. Now, that new note you talked about came out this week. The President said that that note is total exoneration from Michael Flynn, but not really. It's not really the case.

Nobody disputes that Michael Flynn lied to the FBI. The new notes do not change that at all. What the notes do show is the FBI thought it was possible and maybe even probable that Michael Flynn would lie when they interviewed him and they are strategizing what do we do. I've been in that situation. There is nothing unlawful about doing that, about interviewing somebody who think might lie to you and planning what do we do if he does.

Now, with that said, the Attorney General has offered a review, a full review of the Flynn case. It is possible we see the Justice Department go in and make the very unusual move of asking the judge to undo Flynn's plea. I think that would be wrong, but it could happen.

And, of course, the President always has the pardon power. He's talked about it. He seems to be leaning that way, but he hasn't actually pardon Flynn yet. We'll be watching that really carefully.

[18:55:04]

CABRERA: Oh, indeed. All right. Thank you, as always, Elie Honig. Good to have you here.

HONIG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: You can submit your own questions at cnn.com/opinion. And just a quick programming note, join CNN's Jake Tapper as he investigates what really happened during the U.S. fight against COVID- 19. CNN SPECIAL REPORT THE PANDEMIC & THE PRESIDENT airs tomorrow night at 10 here on CNN.

That does it for me this evening. I'm Ana Cabrera. Thank you so much for joining me. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, picks up our coverage of the coronavirus pandemic with a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM after a quick break. Good night.