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First Move with Julia Chatterley

The U.S. President Talks Tariffs As Criticism Of Beijing Intensifies; Warren Buffett Reveals Berkshire Hathaway Has Sold Its U.S. Airlines Stocks; Drones Capable Of Detecting A Fever From Way Up Above. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired May 04, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:11]

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This this FIRST MOVE and here's your need to know.

Corona cover-up. The U.S. President talks tariffs as criticism of Beijing intensifies.

Taking flight. Warren Buffett reveals Berkshire Hathaway has sold its U.S. airlines stocks.

And an eye in the sky. The drones capable of detecting a fever from way up above.

It's Monday. Let's make a move.

Welcome once again to all our FIRST MOVErs from around the globe. I hope you had a restful weekend and hopefully some safe sunshine, too.

We begin the week with more promising medical news in the fight against COVID-19. Let me walk you through it. The U.S. government is set to begin

distributing Gilead coronavirus treatment, remdesivir to hospitals this week.

U.S. regulators have also fast tracked the use of Roche's new antibody tests. We've got the CEO coming up later on in the show with all the

details.

Meanwhile, there are now more than 100 potential vaccines in development worldwide, that according to the World Health Organization. Innovation in

times of crisis remains a big positive and we will hang on to that as best we can.

To the markets now where U.S. futures are in the red. That follows Friday's pullback, too. Its trade related. Pandemic punishment on China remains the

theme. We've got more details and analysis coming up.

But I have to say it's a global story and the bad economic data continues to add up.

South Korea's factory activity plummeting. Hong Kong's economy, meanwhile, was down almost 9 percent year-on-year in the first quarter. It was a

relief, perhaps, I think that the Japanese and Chinese markets were closed on Monday, so no further data from those nations.

The other critical thing to watch this week, we've got almost half of S&P 500 firms reporting results. So far, earnings are down 16 percent year-

over-year and more than 85 big cap names have withdrawn guidance. We're operating in a snow blizzard as I have described before.

Warren Buffett was asked this weekend for his guidance on when he'll put some of his $137 billion of cash to work. He said he doesn't see anything

attractive to invest in and he remains cautious.

Let's get to the drivers. The U.S. President has once again blasted China for its handling of the pandemic, this time accusing it of a cover up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Personally, I think they made a horrible mistake and they didn't want to admit it. We wanted to go in.

They didn't want us there, even World Health wanted to go in. They were admitted, but much later, you know, not immediately.

And my opinion is they made a mistake. They tried to cover it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: President Trump added that tariffs could be the "ultimate punishment," quote, against China.

On Sunday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said there was, quote, "enormous evidence" that the virus originated from a Wuhan laboratory.

Christina Romans joins me on all of this. Christine, the rhetoric, I think flying back and forth, the Chinese overnight calling Mike Pompeo evil as

well and that happened in the last hour or so.

The fear here, I think, is that we add an acceleration or an activation of the trade war once again on top of a war against a pandemic.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: The trade risks are back and this is not what companies and investors had wanted to

see the President, you know, he has called himself tariff man. He has never admitted that tariffs are paid for by U.S. companies, and can be passed on

to U.S. consumers.

And what a terrible time to try to raise prices here, just as many of these companies are trying to restore their global supply chains, right, so that

they can get back up and running.

So, this trade relationship, this relationship between the U.S. and China at a very perilous state here.

I mean, you saw this happening last week when the Chinese issued via Xinhua, the official state news agency, this elaborate video of Lego-made

figurines and making the United States look, you know, like behind the ball and refusing to -- like children, essentially, and China looking like the

good guy.

Now, the U.S. is firing back with these kind of accusations that China on purpose misled the United States. It's just -- it's just going in a

direction certainly that is rattling Wall Street.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And it's also not just about the White House and not just about the Republicans, the Democrats clearly voicing concerns about what

China did here and the world, actually asking lots of questions. So, it's certainly not going to be a theme that goes away.

[09:05:10]

CHATTERLEY: In the interim, there's seemingly mixed messages about further stimulus here in the United States, or at least the timing of further

stimulus. We seem to be "on pause," and I quote.

ROMANS: On pause, Larry Kudlow said when he talked to our Jake Tapper yesterday. You know, he said that the Paycheck Protection Program, that

small business loan program had been doing very well. It was popular and very efficient. And he said -- he suggested that maybe that could be

renewed or more money could go there.

But overall, when Jake asked him about, you know, aid for states and a fourth big tranche of stimulus, he said, we were on pause here and I think

that caught some people by surprise when you're starting to see people in the administration, slow walk another fourth round of aid.

Because when I talk to economists, I'm sure that you've heard this, too, that when they're pricing in sort of their expectations for recovery,

whether it's V, unlikely U or W or what have you for the recovery and the timing, they're assuming there's more stimulus than this.

This was just the survival mode, and now they're expecting some transformational investments to help business, you know, change the way

they do business. So, I was surprised to see the pause button hit on aid here.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's got to be more targeted. If we aren't going to see states opening up, that's arguably the best form of stimulus if businesses

can do it, and they can rehire workers. What more support comes after this if we hold the states separate, it needs to be targeted to support rehiring

and to help people begin to spend again.

ROMANS: Right. And you know, Republicans want some immunity for businesses. That's part of it, too. They want to make sure that there are protections

for businesses. There's no playbook for this, right.

So, if a business opens up and follows the government guidelines, and one of their employees or a customer gets sick, how do you know that they're

not going to be liable there? So, that's also important.

And I think that the state aid. You know, at some point here, I mean, every single transaction that has not happened, every single paycheck that has

stopped is money that goes into those state coffers to pay firefighters, teachers, law enforcement, streets and sanitation. At some point, you're

going to hit a critical moment there, too.

So, I think Washington -- I think the politics is what we're talking about here, but I think more stimulus is coming.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I would agree with you. Christine Romans, thank you so much for that.

ROMANS: Nice to see you.

CHATTERLEY: All right, there is someone else giving their view on the U.S. economy, the Oracle of Omaha says that the economy will recover, but he's

less convinced about the airline industry.

Warren Buffett revealing that Berkshire Hathaway has sold its stake in the four biggest U.S. carriers. Paul La Monica joins us on this. Paul, there

was so much from Warren Buffett that you and I could keep this going for another hour.

But let's talk specifically about the airlines and then we'll hone in on some of the other things he said. He's got preview with airlines and it

hurt last time, too. Please?

PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Exactly. It was really surprising, Julia, to hear that Buffett who had been very bullish up until just a few

months ago on the entire airlines sector, admitting that he made a mistake and that the world has changed because of COVID-19, and he does not see air

travel returning to normal levels anytime soon, and that is the reason why Berkshire Hathaway no longer owns any position in Southwest, Delta, United

and American. They are completely out of this business.

And it is even more interesting when you consider that, you know, Berkshire Hathaway still is bullish on aviation from the standpoint of owning

Precision Castparts, the last big acquisition that they made, that's an aerospace components company and owns NetJets as well.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, this was just a bolt out of the blue. It's tough to look at your risk portfolio and your investment strategy and say that,

you know, look, this is something that the airlines themselves did wrong.

It was simply just something that you can't account for, nor the time it takes to recover. What was interesting for me and I mentioned at the top of

the show was that he was asked about putting the cash pile, the billions of dollars to work, and he said he didn't see anything.

And they haven't even bought any of their own stock since March the 10th, which I thought was interesting in light of what we've seen.

LA MONICA: Yes, $137 billion in cash, obviously, a formidable war chest for Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway.

But the thing that struck me, Julia and you, I think alluded to it as well. Unlike 2008, when he was quick to make investment in Goldman Sachs and GE,

which he since dumped, but he was willing to step in at a time of crisis then. He praised Jay Powell and the Fed for doing everything that it has

done in the past month to try and prop up the U.S. market and the economy.

And that seems to be a reason why he is unwilling to make some investments now because the Fed has already got all of these loan programs in place and

I think because of the recovery in the markets that we've seen over the past few weeks as well, the valuations aren't as attractive to someone like

Buffett as they might have been if stocks had continued to plunge from where they were in mid-March.

CHATTERLEY: It's such a great point. Lessons learned or perhaps even that he thinks there will be better entry points going forward. There's

significant unfortunate news to come, I think on the fundamentals and the economy terms.

But that contrast, like you agree, so critical.

LA MONICA: He is going to buy --

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Paul La Monica, thank you so much for that.

All right, now, to efforts in reopening Europe. Italy is allowing millions of people to return to work. Manufacturing and construction activities

restart today; and in Spain, a limited number of businesses are reopening after the daily death toll fell to a six-week low.

In Greece, meanwhile, the government's swift lockdown measures saved lives. Now, authorities are allowing phased reopening of businesses including book

shops and hair salons. The message, too, is that Greece will get ready for the summer holiday season.

CNN's Nic Robertson spoke to the Greek Prime Minister and Nic joins us live now from Athens.

Nic, great to have you with us. What more did the Prime Minister have to say about their hopes going forward?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, a lot more and I think one of the big takeaways when you sit down with this new Prime

Minister of Greece, new from last year. He is not a populist like the last Prime Minister. He's a pragmatist, and that's what he points for his

success and the country's success in handling COVID-19 so far that they locked down early before there were any deaths in the country.

So far, they've only had 145 deaths and 2,600 approximately infections. That's over the whole period.

Compare that to some countries who are doing more than that in a day. So, that is significant.

I've been to a hospital here. The COVID wards. There are still people in intensive care. But the vast majority of beds in intensive care are empty.

The doctor in charge of the main COVID hospital here in Athens, I talked to her. She said, no doctors, no nurses have been infected and we take it

almost as a part of the new normal around the world that if you're in the medical frontline profession, you're going to get sick from this virus,

there is a good chance for it.

It didn't happen here in Greece. Why? Because the Prime Minister put an early lockdown, a strong lockdown in place, and there was enough PPE for

the healthcare professionals.

But that big positive success? Yes, the Prime Minister feels that he got it right so far, but the next phase, opening up the business. That's a tough

one. This is what we talked about.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Greece's economy is dependent -- heavily dependent on tourism -- 20 percent or more dependent on tourism. So, opening up means letting in

tourists.

KYRIAKOS MITSOTAKIS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER: Not at the first stage. We are not more dependent than say Portugal or even to a certain extent Spain. We

are -- all southern countries are heavily dependent on tourists. Now, the real question is, will we be able to have tourists come ...

ROBERTSON: Can you?

MITSOTAKIS: ... in the later parts of the summer, only if we agree to very specific protocols. But hopefully, at the European level, let's assume

people will get a test before they fly out, and then we carefully monitor them, either an antibody test or a PCR test.

And then of course, the tourism experience this summer may be slightly different from what you -- what you've had in previous years with more

social distancing. Maybe no bars may be open or no tight crowds, but you can still get a fantastic experience in Greece, provided the global

epidemic is on a downward path.

But the best case scenario is, Greece is open for business July 1st, and we're working towards that, so we're preparing towards that, but of course

it involves airlines because most people fly into Greece and you know, very, very strict but also enforceable protocols.

ROBERTSON: Can you put a finger on how big you think the economic loss might even be in percentage terms?

MITSOTAKIS: I've resisted, because it's going to be very different. I don't want to give you a big range, but it's going to be much worse if we don't

open up at all for the summer.

ROBERTSON: You have --

MITSOTAKIS: If we manage to get some tourists, it's going to be better. But you know, it is around -- 10 percent seems to be a consensus amongst most

European countries as what could happen, which is a massive contraction.

ROBERTSON: It's going to be a very different summer, isn't it?

MITSOTAKIS: It is going to be a very different summer, but we hope that the worst is behind us. And again, what I keep is a legacy of this crisis is

this sense of collective success, and I dare to use the word pride. Greeks haven't been proud in a long, long time.

You know, for 10 years, we were the punching bag of Europe.

[09:15:06]

ROBERTSON: Has this changed the situation?

MITSOTAKIS: I think it has changed in terms of our self-confidence and also confidence in the state.

I'm not saying confidence in the government, necessarily, but people trust the state. They trust the experts. The first thing that I did was to give

the floor to our top epidemiologist and he is doing the daily briefings. It's not me.

ROBERTSON: This seems to be, dare I say, a very strong message for the United States and the United Kingdom whose track records at the moment on

this pandemic are probably some of the worst in terms of death and infection rates.

MITSOTAKIS: Well, everyone is doing it the wrong way. This is a --

ROBERTSON: I know, but is there a right way? And does Greece have the right way?

MITSOTAKIS: Well, I think there is -- I don't think there is a single right way, but I think we clearly did it, at least in terms of the first phase.

And until now, I think we've done it the right way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: You know, what he is very clear on about, Julia, and he says it in the interview that, you know, for there to be economic success in

Greece, particularly from tourism, and for the rest of Europe and the rest of the world, you've got to have new international agreements for the new

norms.

And to the point of your previous interview there, that's international air travel, people getting tested before they leave home, before they arrive

here in Greece, which is what we went through at the airport, a COVID test, just to get into the country.

A lot of things -- fundamental things -- really have to change and have to be agreed soon -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, absolutely. Decisive leadership in the beginning, but then coordinated leadership now needed more than ever. Nic Robertson, great job

there. Thank you so much for joining us here from Athens for your interview.

All right, we're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE, but coming up, the antibody testing seen as a crucial part of reopening and the new

normal, drug maker Roche has come up with one. Their CEO is next with all the details.

Plus Nigeria's response to the COVID-19 crisis and the oil sector there fight for survival. That's coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to First Move. A quick look at U.S. futures at this moment. We are losing ground premarket after -- and adding to the two

and a half percent losses that we saw in Friday's session, too.

[15:20:10]

Trade concerns, key here. Tough commentary from President Trump this weekend talking once again about potential tariffs on Chinese incoming

goods. That's certainly a key focus for investors this morning.

In the meantime, efforts to reopen, Swiss drug maker, Roche has won fast track approval from U.S. regulators for its COVID-19 antibody test.

The test determines with a 99.8 percent certainty whether an individual has been infected by the virus. It's this degree of accuracy that is setting

the test apart from other rivals.

And joining us now is Severin Schwan. He's the CEO of Roche. Sir, fantastic to have you on the show, and thank you, too. I know it's been incredible

and intense work from your team to get to this point. Talk me through your antibody test and why it's so different.

SEVERIN SCHWAN, CEO, ROCHE: It's really special because it is so accurate. It is almost near-perfect accuracy with a sensitivity of 100 percent, a

specificity of 99.8 percent, so this is pretty extraordinary.

And what that allows us is to really reliably test whether a person has been infected by the coronavirus or not, irrespective of whether you had

symptoms or not.

CHATTERLEY: And it's -- to be clear, it's taken from a blood draw. This is not a pin prick test, and I know you're very -- let's say, cautious about

the pin prick test because of that fact that they're simply not as accurate as the test you're providing here?

SCHWAN: This is absolutely correct. You would go to your doctor and the doctor or nurse will take blood. Then the test is sent to a lab where it is

analyzed, and only this kind of test can provide this high level of accuracy.

CHATTERLEY: Talk to me about your ability to produce these and scale up. You've suggested a hundred million tests per month by the end of 2020.

That's a big deal.

SCHWAN: Indeed, and you know, it's also due to the technology. Unlike molecular tests where you directly test the virus, with antibody tests

where you actually measure whether the human body has reacted to the virus, you measure the antibodies.

For that technology, it's much easier to scale up, so we will provide tests in the high upper digit millions already this month, and we will further

ramp up over the remainder of the year.

So, this test can really be used broadly unlike molecular tests where you still have a more focused range of testing.

CHATTERLEY: I think there were two big questions for people, and I know they'll be asking these questions as they're watching this interview.

One, how much immunity is enough to provide resistance against catching COVID-19 -- the coronavirus -- once again? And then I think the other thing

is, and you mentioned it already with being able to test immunity even if a person hasn't got symptoms, just sort of testing how much immunity is

provided even when you've not been sick or severely sick at all? Are you collecting this data?

SCHWAN: First of all, we know that if you have an infection of other coronavirus like the other SARS virus that we do have data an experience

from, it is very, very likely that also for this coronavirus, you will acquire immunity after you have gone through an infection no matter whether

you have shown symptoms or whether you did not show symptoms because what really matters is whether you have antibodies which fight the virus, so

it's very likely.

Having said that, however, because we're at the very beginning, we still have to bring a proof for that. So, one of the benefits of this new,

reliable antibody test is also that we can now track people who have been infected and have recovered and see whether they get re-infected in the

future, which will then be the proof of whether we get immune or not.

But there's still open questions on how long will this immunity be. Will it be for one year? Two years? Several years? Will it, you know, be full

immunity or is a reinfection just less severe?

So, there's still a lot we have to learn over the coming months.

CHATTERLEY: Likely but not certain in the words of the CEO of Roche here. Does that mean that you would be comfortable or uncomfortable with the idea

that your test results are being used in things like immunity passports at this moment?

[09:25:10]

SCHWAN: Right. I do believe that we are in a world with a lot ambiguity and we also have to make decisions on incomplete information. So, I do think it

is valuable information, but we should not fully rely on it.

In other words, even if you know that you have been infected, it is important to keep social distance, it is important, you know, to wash your

hands, et cetera.

But, it -- it -- you know, if you look at it from a public health point of view, of course, the risk of having such people exposed again, for example

healthcare workers, is much lower than for a person who has not been infected yet.

So, I do think it's -- it's a very important tool to track individuals and make individual decisions.

But also, what is very, very important, the antibody testing, because we can do that in bigger quantities, will allow us to track the pandemic in a

much more precise way, because we will know where we are in the cycle in the pandemic, how many people have been infected, how infection rates are

developing.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and looking for herd immunity as well when we start to see higher percentages of people having got antibodies.

Very quickly, I want to talk to you about the arthritis drugs and the use of those potentially to try and fight cytokine storms, where the body's own

immune system starts attacking itself rather than it being about the virus attacking the body.

What are your result so far? And just give us a sense of trials on this, too.

SCHWAN: We know from the first more limited clinical trials that there is increasing evidence that actually this medicine really works for severely

ill COVID patients who have pneumonia and where you have -- as you have stated, where the immune system has overreacted.

However, I should also say, we have big trials, fully randomized trials ongoing and we will get definite results in June.

CHATTERLEY: And we shall watch this space for that, sir. Thank you so much to you and your team, for all the hard work and the efforts in this regard.

We will continue to track progress. Stay safe, sir.

SCHWAN: Thank you very much.

CHATTERLEY: Severin Schwan there, the CEO of Roche. All right, we are counting down to the market open and that's next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:49]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. stocks are up and running this Monday and as expected, we're beginning the week in the red.

U.S. China trade concerns front and center, as well as, I think a bit of cautiousness ahead of another busy week of earnings.

Investors are also watching the first tentative efforts to reopen the U.S. economy in particular, as other nations around the world do. If governments

can manage to do this safely, then it will certainly be a huge positive for sentiment.

Macy's is set to reopen some U.S. stores today for the first time since the March lock down, almost 70 stores will be up and running this week.

But of course, COVID-19 has also claimed its first big retail victim. Privately held J. Crew filing for bankruptcy protection. It will remain in

business during its debt restructuring and it hopes to reopen stores to the public soon.

Clare Sebastian joins me now. Clare, COVID-19, just accelerating trends that we already saw, a push to e-commerce, the challenge of bricks and

mortar.

Interestingly, even with J. Crew, they're saying we're still open for business online.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Julia, they are making the point this is a Chapter 11 fighting, not a Chapter 7 liquidation.

CHATTERLEY: Right.

SEBASTIAN: They hope that they can emerge from this stronger, better prepared for the future. But of course, that future is very uncertain. But

as you point out, this is not just a COVID-19 related bankruptcy filing.

This company was struggling well before this happened. Accelerating trends is exactly the right phrase to use that's exposed these companies that came

into this struggling with consumer tastes changing, struggling with the shift to e-commerce.

And in particular, in the case of J. Crew, struggling with debt. They were the result of a leveraged buyout in 2011 that saddled them with a lot of

debt, about $1.7 billion as of this year, and this is what really, was the nail in the coffin.

The bankruptcy will allow them they say to deleverage their balance sheet and continue operating. But the sad thing about this was that they had

started to see the fruit of a many year-long turnaround plan there.

Their earnings in 2019 were a little better, or perhaps I should say not as bad as their earnings in 2018. They have a stronger brand called Madewell,

which they were hoping to spin off an IPO, but that business is now off the table.

So, this is sort of a sad turn of events for a brand that was made famous, that had a heyday, you'll remember when Michelle Obama started wearing

their styles, but as I said, it has struggled in recent years.

CHATTERLEY: I can't help it feel like it's the first domino among many, Clare, and to your exact point about what type of bankruptcy this is, by

the time a company gets to bankruptcy, a lot of the negotiations, the money for the future, and the plans for restructuring are already organized.

And there's a number of names in this space that are also being touched by rumor. Let's say that.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, for sure. Some of the names that are out there, Julia -- Neiman Marcus, JC Penney -- again, companies that were struggling with this

shift in consumer behavior before this big department stores that really struggled to sort of define themselves in the age of Amazon, to shift to e-

commerce.

And frankly, are also saddled with large amounts of debt that they have to service, as well as paying for their operations. So, that's what people are

really watching.

And then there's also the market share issue, Julia. You know, I spoke to one analyst recently who said when governors closed down on essential

business, they really handed the likes of Amazon and Walmart and Target, another huge slice of market share.

And there's no real guarantee that when things go back to normal that that will go back to the likes of JC Penney and Neiman Marcus.

I think consumer behavior in some ways will be changed forever through this.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I couldn't agree more. We don't know what the new normal looks like yet. Thank you very much for that, Clare Sebastian.

Now, on to another industry facing tough times, the oil sector. The price of Brent crude is down by around 60 percent so far this year. WTI down

nearly 70 percent. The plunge in prices presenting an additional crisis for oil-rich Nigeria.

According to the I.M.F., oil generates 90 percent of Nigeria's foreign earnings, 60 percent of government revenues despite the nation's efforts to

try and diversify.

Alex Irune is the Chief Operating Officer at Oando Energy Resources, and he joins us now.

Alex, fantastic to have you with us.

[09:35:10] CHATTERLEY: Challenging times for many reasons for Nigeria, but I want to hone in on your business first, what does this moment mean? And these lower

oil prices mean for the decisions you have to make as a business?

AINOJIE ALEX IRUNE, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, OANDO ENERGY RESOURCES (via Skype): Thanks for having me, Julia.

Look, it's interesting time for all of us. As a business, we -- you know, we took a pragmatic approach to hedge our bows ahead of this. So, I will

speak to a larger group of independent producers, who today at a price of about $25.00 or $20.00, the tension is 60 to 70 percent of our production

the previous months.

So that gives you an idea of where we are from a bottom line perspective. We've taken the right steps, we believe, encouraged by the government to

pick those key decisions.

The cuts have come in on the CapEx side, and of course on the operating expense side, we're looking at aggressively at bringing those budgets down.

We all had commitments at the start of the year, the world has changed.

CHATTERLEY: Do you have any sense as you quite rightly point out the world has changed and we don't really have a sense of how long it takes for

demand to come back, for the market to rebalance.

Is there a risk that financially you're simply not viable for how long it takes to come back into line for both of those two things to realign?

IRUNE: You're right to some extent, Julia. I think you would see some casualties along the way. What we must do is stay optimistic.

I know, to most of the oil producers currently, there are costs that as independents, we have very little control, right, okay, so if I break down

that operating cost for you, there's a 20 to 40 percent that it is out of our control in terms of fees, you know, transportation fees, crude. We have

very little control over that.

With independents, our human resource, you know, our payroll, you know, operations might be where we look across the capital. But to your point,

would this be enough? I think the question is, the price point, we're seeing an uptick in the price. We're seeing the decision by OPEC to cut 10

billion barrels come into, you know, sort of realized the intention of momentum and taking that instead.

But more importantly, the government is stepping in to ensure that independents like ourselves are raising conversations to ensure that

process of survival is the process for us.

And knowing that, we will manage going -- with at least a month and then we can see a response.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's such an important point that, particularly for private companies hereto, like we said, remain viable in the short term and

survive to the medium term.

Alex, I want to talk to you as well, because there's clearly two issues here. There's the challenges that have been presented by lower oil prices,

but also the response to COVID-19.

And I know you are part of a broader group of people that have raised a lot of money to try and boost medical infrastructure and give back to Nigeria.

Talk me through that and what's been achieved.

IRUNE: We've seen the most impressive in my time as a professional, showing of the private sector, stepping forward, and and just taking on the

challenge of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Look, the industry at large, Russia and Saudi Arabia celebrated potentially what could have been a more manageable situation at this point, but we are

where we are. We've taken -- we've made the sacrifices and we're taking the decisions.

But what we're seeing is the likes of the National Oil Company leading, you know, as responders, putting in about 14 billion into -- and more into that

basket. We've seen a larger group of banks and other institutions come in.

And for us, the key is, the effective spend and distribution of those funds, through the palliative measures we have all set out to push to the

most needy and the most vulnerable, because that's really what this is about.

And yes, COVID will come and we'll deal with those issues, but there will be casualties after we've dealt with the pandemic and a lasting solution,

our company for one has taken a step to create an aggregated platform to combine dollars and last mile solutions for NGOs and boots on the ground.

[09:40:07]

IRUNE: You know, we are encouraging people to come in and donate so we can disperse this money and get it to those that really need it.

It's been an amazing showing by the private sector. Dare I say, they have made a difference.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. It's been an astonishing response, and we'll continue to discuss it and to highlight it because I agree with you.

Alex, thank you so much for joining us. We will get you back on to discuss progress and response. Alex Irune there. Thank you so much. And I apologize

to our viewers for the slight reception issues there as well.

All right, still to come here on FIRST MOVE. Unprecedented times, unprecedented measures. Drones able to spot someone coughing from afar

could soon take to the skies. We will speak to the CEO of the company that's making them. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Shares of the four biggest U.S. airlines falling sharply as you can see, this after Warren Buffett said he

sold his entire stake. Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway started buying these stocks back four years ago. It was once their biggest investors, as you can

see, off more than nine percent in most cases.

The news though comes as European carriers continue their own fight for survival. Norwegian has secured the backing of shareholders for its rescue

plan. Air France KLM got the E.U.'s approval for an $8 billion bailout.

Lufthansa, meanwhile, is having a call with eight shareholders on Tuesday.

Our Fred Pleitgen got exclusive access to a runway at Frankfurt airport where unused Lufthansa planes are parked.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Julia. As you can see behind me there are a lot of parked planes here at

the main hub of Europe's largest airline, Lufthansa, in Frankfurt in Germany.

It's really planes of all sizes. You have the A-320, A-321 aircraft behind me, but you also have everything ranging up to the large A-380s as well.

[09:45:08]

PLEITGEN: And there's almost no place here in Europe where you can see the crisis induced by the coronavirus pandemic more vividly than here at

Frankfurt Airport.

Lufthansa says right now, they are flying at less than one percent of their usual capacity. They say normally, they have about 350,000 passengers every

day, right now, that's down to about 3,000 passengers every day.

And of course, we know that airlines, when they don't fly, they literally bleed a lot of money. All of these planes still cost a lot of money even if

they're not moving. They still require the pilots to be paid, ground staff to be paid.

They require obviously a minimum amount of maintenance as well. And the airline also has to manage fuel.

It is a high cost industry, and right now, it's an extremely low revenue industry. And that's one of the reasons why Lufthansa says that it needs

government assistance.

Now, it says, it doesn't only need that assistance to get through this crisis, but also to remain competitive after this crisis ends as well.

Of course, they're saying that because some other airlines around Europe, but also around the world have already secured government assistance.

You look at for instance, Air France and KLM. You look for instance, a lot of the American Airlines that are getting assistance from the Trump

administration, Lufthansa says in order to survive in the future, that is what they are going to need and they say that the future probably is going

to look a lot different than the past has looked.

They said that this airline they believe will get back on track, will be strong in the future, but could be at least in the midterm a lot smaller

than it has been in the past -- Julia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: The challenges. Fred Pleitgen there at Frankfurt Airport there for us. Thank you.

While many planes remain grounded, another type of aircraft could soon be taking to the skies, pandemic drones. As more people get tired of lockdown

restrictions, it might be increasingly difficult to police social distancing, as we saw over the weekend, in some places here In the United

States.

One company's answer is a COVID tracking drone. They can detect fever, coughing, breathing rate, heart rate and blood pressure all from a distance

of 60 meters.

Cameron Chell is the CEO of Draganfly, the company behind the drones.

Cameron, great to have you on the show. Wow is all I can say. These drones are pretty impressive. Talk us through this.

CAMERON CHELL, CEO, DRAGANFLY: Sure. Well, Draganfly is the oldest operating commercial drone manufacturer in the world.

We're a public company. We trade here in the United States under the symbol DFLYF. And we have a history of public safety.

In fact, in 2013, a Draganfly drone was the first drone to save a human life, and today that drone sits in the Smithsonian Center.

We are really, really focused on being able to provide the correct data so our public officials are in a spot to be able to determine if things like

social distancing, mask wearing and such are actually working -- are actually working.

The big challenge that they have right now is that we are working with data that is all after the fact. We don't really know where and how we can open

the economies. And this type of technology, both on cameras and on drones can help us have that data.

CHATTERLEY: What would happen though, if it detected people with high temperatures, or people weren't being socially distant? Does the drone

itself have the capability to make a noise, for example, and tell people to separate or does it just feed the data back to whoever is watching that

they can go to that place and say, spread out or isolate people?

CHELL: Yes, I think it's really important to understand that this technology and the software underneath it, it recognizes patterns, not

people. This is not designed or built for profiling.

Originally, this technology was designed to hang from the bottom of helicopters flyover disaster relief zones to be able to pick up the vital

signs of survivors and then determine where is the most important place to place those resources, so it really isn't practical, even if it could

profile somebody to then say, oh, let's put out a police cruiser and go get this person for secondary screening.

The idea here is to be able to provide population health measurement, a way to help ensure that the decisions we make are protecting our frontline

workers, our public in general and to reopen the economy.

CHATTERLEY: Is that going to be the biggest battle you face here, Cameron, because I know you were testing it in Connecticut, and I looked at some of

the comments from the American Civil Liberties Union of Connecticut, they said, look, it's an example of privacy invading companies using COVID-19 as

a chance to market their products.

As much as you say, look, this is about trying to collect data, understanding what's happening real time, there are those that say this is

just a tool to spy.

CHELL: I think there's a couple things to consider. First of all, I think that they made some of those comments without having all the information.

CHATTERLEY: Right.

[09:50:08]

CHELL: That said, it's incredibly important to respect the wishes of the public. And I think the Westport Police did an excellent job on quickly

moving away from the program because of their public concerns.

Their first and foremost concern was to protect their public and their decision not to proceed was also part of that. However, if we look at the

reality in the private world, for example, where people are looking to reopen theme parks, or reopen convention centers, or workplace safety,

those types of organizations want to build consumer confidence so that people will come back to their facilities.

And I don't know about you, but if I'm going to make a decision to go to a theme park this coming weekend with my family, I want to know that the

health measurement is in place there. I want to know what are the infectious rates happening or I'm not going to go back to that place. So,

the reality is this technology is coming.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, you know, I'm on board with this, you know, I have stringent beliefs about the need for privacy, but where safety is

concerned, then I think the lines get blurred. So I'm with you on this, to be honest.

Talk to me about the conversations that you're having with regulators, because in the end, it will be a governmental decision, I think, to apply

this kind of technology. And to justify that it's for safety, not for anything else, snooping, for example, talk to me about those conversations.

CHELL: Yes, sure. The great part about this is the privacy framework for this is already in place.

CHATTERLEY: Right.

CHELL: There's really two sub areas to think about here. There's public safety, and then there's private-public safety. So, in the case of public

safety, where you might be over public areas, the only thing that's being collected is anonymized data about health population.

So, over this geographic location, which might be a beach, for example, between the hours of two in the afternoon and three in the afternoon, there

were 450 people and 0.021 percent demonstrated signs of potential infectious or respiratory disease, and 23 percent of them were practicing

social distancing at this rate and these hours.

And that's all the data that allows public officials to then start making either policy decisions or putting different public awareness campaigns out

to help protect all of us.

Now, in the case of consumer or workplace safety in the private area, that all can require and does require consent. So, if I'm going to walk into a

basketball game or a theme park or my place of work, where the employer or the private enterprise has concern to protect its workers, or to ensure

that people coming in there aren't going to spread infection, then I may have an initial screening, which we've already seen.

We've seen thousands of companies now with thermal cameras, Disney has said, they're going to check temperatures coming in. What this allows is

for this to happen in an unobtrusive way and then say, hey, that person if they want to come in, if they're displaying these conditions, can go for

secondary screening.

CHATTERLEY: This is what you're going to get.

CHELL: That's all 100 percent consent and again, so there's a framework for this to happen. This is just an appropriate solution of technology and

safety for all of us.

CHATTERLEY: In the absence of testing, welcome to the future, quite frankly, and it's needed. Cameron Chell, stay in touch with us, please,

sir, and stay safe.

It's going to be fascinating to watch your progress.

CHELL: Thank you so much.

CHATTERLEY: The CEO there of Draganfly. Thank you for that.

All right. Up next, mission accomplished. One of the Army's New York City field hospitals discharges its last patient. We examine a glimmer of hope

in the battle against coronavirus. Another one. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:44]

CHATTERLEY: Mission accomplished. Before we go, some good news here from New York.

The U.S. Army completing their mission at a New York City field hospital this week.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CHATTERLEY: This is a standing ovation from healthcare workers to the last patient discharged. More than 1,000 patients were treated there.

That's it for the show. Stay safe, and we'll see you tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

END