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Key Model Now Forecasts 134,000 U.S. Deaths by Early August; Trump Administration Identifies 14 Potential Vaccines; Countries Slowly Reopen as Global Deaths Surpass 250K; China versus U.S. on Origin of Virus; Israel Announces Phased Reopening. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired May 05, 2020 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNA COREN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers, joining us from all around the world, I'm Anna Coren.

Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, reopening for business in the U.S. But without a clear plan and coordination, two new models suggest tens of thousands of more Americans will die.

One world leader is taking a page from President Trump's coronavirus playbook and the outcome has been deadly.

Plus relatively unscathed: what Greece did right to save lives and the country's lofty goals for the country this summer. Our exclusive interview with the country's prime minister.

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COREN: All over the world, more COVID 19 hotspots are easing the restrictions in order to stop it spread. According to Johns Hopkins, the global death toll exceeds 0.25 million with 3.6 million confirmed cases.

For the most part, loosening lockdowns is being carried out in small strategic steps.

But in the United States, it is happening in places nowhere near a plateau, in cases or fatalities. Two major projections now suggest that the number of U.S. deaths is about to double.

One model often cited by the White House is forecasting more 134,000 deaths by late summer. That is nearly twice that same models forecast from days ago. The Trump administration is also privately projecting a spike in the death toll.

An internal document, obtained by "The New York Times," say that by June, 3,000 Americans will die daily by June. America's leading expert on infectious disease, gives us some context on these forecast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I don't know if those numbers, because I have skepticism about models, about they are only as good as the assumptions you put into them, but they are not completely misleading.

They are telling you something that's a reality. That when you have mitigation that's containing something and unless it's down in the right direction and you pull back prematurely, you are going to get a rebound of cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: These new projections come as President Trump gets ready to head to Arizona in the coming day. It will be his first trip after being stuck in Washington for weeks. And as Nick Watt reports, Arizona is one of the dozens of states rolling back restrictions.

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NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, restaurants can reopen in Nebraska, bars in Montana, offices in Colorado.

Yes, some social distancing restrictions remain, but, by the end of this week, more than 40 states will be partially back open for business.

ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES: Well, we have been staying indoors, we have been slowing down the spread. But what we haven't done is gotten rid of the virus.

WATT: This is what new normal looks like: eating in Texas complete with masks.

In Miami Beach today: They had to close the popular South Point Park again after police issued 7,300 warnings to people not wearing masks. The projected number of deaths forecast by early August in this country just nearly doubled to more than 134,000 in that well-known model from the University of Washington.

The reason --

ALI MOKDAD, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON: Each one of them increased mobility before relaxation, premature relaxation and social distancing, with adding more presumptive deaths as well and we're seeing a lot of outbreaks in the Midwest, for example.

WATT: Another model used by the administration predicts a short rise in deaths to around 3,000 a day by June 1st, according to sources and a rough eight-fold increase in the number of new cases every day nationwide.

Now in 15 states, the daily new case count is falling. Among men those northeast hot spots.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): You see the decline is, again, not as steep as the incline.

But reopening is more difficult than the close-down.

WATT: But in 20 states, the daily new case count is still rising, among them, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois.

The governor of California will now allow some retail to open Friday with significant modifications. He says certain areas of lower concern can move even faster.

NEWSOM: We will afford them that right with conditions and modifications that meet the health needs of the entire state.

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WATT: Meanwhile, the White House is now focusing on 14 potential vaccines.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are very confident that we're going to have a vaccine at the end of the year.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Miracles can happen. It could come together, but I'm certainly not banking on it.

WATT: The makers of that potential therapeutic, remdesivir, say they have had donated 140,000 courses to the federal government.

DANIEL O'DAY, CEO, GILEAD SCIENCES: They will determine, based upon things like ICU beds, where the course of the epidemic is in the United States. They will begin shipping tens of thousands of treatment courses out early this week.

WATT: And today in D.C., history was made. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oyez! Oyez! Oyez! All persons having business before the Honorable the Supreme Court of the United States are admonished to give their attention.

WATT: That's the Supreme Court for the first time in history meeting by teleconference.

(on camera): So California will begin opening Friday. This was one of the first states in the U.S. to tell us to stay home. On Friday, that will be 50 days ago.

But the governor says that certain local areas can move faster or slower if they want. The mayor of San Francisco said her city might need a little bit more time before they begin to reopen -- Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

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COREN: Well, I want to bring in Dr. Richard Dawood, he is the medical director at the Fleet Street Clinic in London.

That figure of 3,000 deaths a day by June, does that come as any surprise?

DR. RICHARD DAWOOD, FLEET STREET CLINIC: Well, that's a terrifying figure and it shows that there is going to be that, you know, that's a projection. And I think it is important to try and prove that projection wrong and keep things down and be guided very sensitively by what's happening in terms of releasing lockdown in an intelligent and scientific away.

We have the same thing here in the U.K., I totally understand the pressure that people feel to return to some kind of normality, the frustration and the impact on business. This is something that is universal at the moment and it is very hard to watch relaxation of lockdown, in parts of the world that have done much better than others in controlling the spread and in putting in place control measures.

But we shouldn't be fooled by that situation as it differs locally in so many ways and so many different places and we must be guided by the best scientific advice and input and lockdown should only be released gradually and in a controlled way.

COREN: As you say, it is a projection, internal modeling by the CDC, you would think that would be a warning to the United States and yet as we just heard most U.S. states including California will be easing restrictions. Some not even adhering to social distancing guidelines. So there must be so much concern about what lies ahead.

DAWOOD: Absolutely. The best thing it would be for a lockdown to be released only very slowly and in a carefully controlled manner. You just cannot open the barn doors and let everything out. We will be back at square one and it will be hard to reintroduce lockdown and controlling the second time around.

The thing that everyone worries about a second wave, second peak, that will be hard to control. It is much better if we can release lockdown in a gradual uncontrolled manner, that will allow us to find tune, the process so that we can adapt it to continuing case numbers. You know, hospital work loads and statistics, you know we shouldn't be attempted to rush into things too quickly.

COREN: Do you think that is what is happening, that the countries like the United States and the U.K., I know Boris Johnson is going to be announcing an easing of restrictions where you are sometime this week.

Is it premature?

Is it going to set these countries back to where they were, a few months ago?

DAWOOD: Well, that is the risk, that is the danger, there is huge public pressure to do otherwise.

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DAWOOD: But we need to resist that temptation. That is the fear. That is what hospitals certainly in the U.K. and elsewhere are worrying about, that all the progress we have made to bring down death rates and get over the peak, all of that will give us nothing and we will be back at square one.

We don't have a huge amount of herd immunity at this point. In some countries, there has been some progress with that. But in general in many countries, we are still not at that point. And we need to be very cautious not to undo all the good work that has been done so far this in controlling the spread during a lockdown period.

COREN: As you say, everyone wants to get back to work, everyone wants to see the economy back up and running. As we know, and as we're hearing from the experts, the reopening too soon could be disastrous.

Where you are in the U.K., what do you think needs to be happening to ensure that there isn't a second wave of this virus?

DAWOOD: Well, I think we need to focus on the things that can be returned to normal with a minimum impact on the number of cases. That could be allowing release from lockdown, in younger people or in certain types of businesses, in assessing where people are not going to be working in close contact.

It requires thought and careful planning. But it should be possible to release things slowly and gradually and to keep track on what's going on with testing there and gathering data that will inform on the impact of each of the release measures that's put in place.

So this can be done in a well monitored and informed way. I think without that knowledge and that continued refining of the plan, we are going to be -- it will be back to chaos. It needs to be well monitored, well started, well informed.

COREN: Back to chaos, yes, that is the fear. Great to speak with you, Dr. Richard Dawood.

World leaders are pledging $8 billion for the research and development of coronavirus treatments and a vaccine. The European Union hosted an event. The European Commission president says this is just the beginning and countries must be ready to contribute more.

E.U. officials say pharmaceutical countries should commit to making treatments and vaccines available around the world at affordable prices.

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URSULA VAN DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: The reality is, that we will have to learn to live with the virus, until and unless we develop a vaccine. And this is why we have to join forces and pull our money and our minds to kickstart work on vaccines, diagnostics and treatment against coronavirus.

We need to develop, produce and deploy them to every single corner of the world. And we must assure that they are available and affordable for all. And this is why we must all chip in to finance this truly global endeavor. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Norway, the U.K., Canada and Japan are among the top contributors. The United States is not contributing. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is contributing $100 million to the effort.

For works the U.S. president has pushed an unproven theory alleging the coronavirus leaked from a lab in China. The latest intelligence, shared amongst the Five Eyes, the group made up of the U.S. and 4 close allies, continues to support the original claim from Beijing, that most likely the disease emerged from a wet market in Wuhan.

The U.S. secretary of state, insists that China was responsible.

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QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, have you seen anything that gives you high confidence that it originated in that Wuhan lab?

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, there is enormous evidence, that that's where this began, we have said from the beginning that this was a virus that originated in Wuhan, China. We took a lot of grief for that from the onset but I think the whole world can see now.

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COREN: China has hit back with this, "Politicians in the United States appear to run out of new ways to smear China, they have frustratedly repeated their wild claims and continue to propagate the idea, that the virus was man-made and leaked from a laboratory.

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COREN: "United States politicians have evil intentions behind the political farce."

Let's get more from CNN's Kristie Lu in Hong Kong and John Defterios in Abu Dhabi. John, I'm going to you first.

How are investors reacting to these ongoing tensions between United States and China?

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: It's a key question, Anna, because we've had a shock on Friday and on Monday in Asian trading and then we had some stability emerging on Wall Street yesterday. They are turning down the noise on the geopolitical tensions and focusing at this stage at least, for 24 hours, put it that way on the reopenings as you are talking about earlier in the program.

California has a G7 economy on its own, coming up at the end of the week. Italy, Spain and Greece all having plans now to come out of the dark and into the light. They have some economic recovery in place.

This is what is setting the trading tone in Asia. We have Hong Kong up 0.8 percent. Australia's central banks can get a big recovery in 2021, after a drop of 6 percent this year, that is near the market high for Australia.

That is actually setting a good framework for the U.S. futures. You can see them up across the board. Around 1 percent or slightly under. If you are looking for some bad news, you don't have to look very far.

And that is because we saw factory workers in the states, the worst on record by long shot. We saw GE Aerospace laying off 13,000 workers, because there is no demand for jet engines.

Emirates Airline from Dubai saying we won't see back to normal travel until 2023, pretty shocking and that should affect oil demand but we had some brighter news in the sense that the storage levels actually have leveled off last week in the United States.

And we see as a result the oil prices rallying near $22 a barrel for the U.S. and $29 a barrel for North Sea Brent.

For context we are seeing the largest economy in the region, the number one exporter in the world, Saudi Arabia, cutting down severely on salaries, spending and the rest. So $30 a barrel if we get there is not $60 a barrel. It causes a lot of pain, even in the region where I am standing, where there are low-cost producers.

COREN: Great to get your insight, many thanks.

Joining us is Kristie Lu Stout.

Kristie, China was never going to take these accusations lying down.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR: No, we are still awaiting word from the Chinese ministry of foreign affairs, it is a public holiday in China. But we have heard from state run broadcasters last night a scathing, harshly worded commentary and they called the U.S. secretary of state, they called him basically evil.

And they said he is spewing poison and spreading lies. The CCTV broadcast is also interesting because it name checked a virologist as well as an executive director of the World Health Organization, both who said they believe did not come from the Wuhan Institute of Virology but from natural origins, from a wildlife animal market.

There is growing pushback on the Trump administration claim that they keep repeating, push back even coming from Five Eyes. This is the security alliance involving the U.S., U.K., Canada, Australia and New Zealand, saying they contradict the theory coming out of the Trump White House. They say there is no evidence backing it up.

There are a lot of reasons why; there's been so much tension over the Institute of Virology. This is a place that is well known for studying the coronavirus in bats 2 years ago, in 2018.

U.S. diplomats in China sounded the alarm twice about safety issues at the lab. But when secretary of state Mike Pompeo over the weekend made that claim, that this was the origin of the virus, he did not have any evidence to back it up.

Meanwhile, the Chinese have been peddling their own origins theory, with senior officials taking to social media, saying that they believe that the U.S. Army is responsible for this and (INAUDIBLE).

COREN: OK, that was our Kristie Lu Stout from Hong Kong.

Australia and New Zealand are being praised for their response to the coronavirus and we look at the possibility for a travel bubble for the neighboring nations.

Plus Israel lays out a detailed plan for reopening. Benjamin Netanyahu says certain conditions must be met to keep it going.

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COREN: Welcome back.

Israel has unveiled its plan to end its coronavirus shutdown. Prime Minister Netanyahu says gatherings up to 20 people will be allowed. And people can visit immediate family, including the elderly. But he warned if more than 100 new infections a day or 250 patients in serious condition, the reopening will stop.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is in Jerusalem.

Oren, as we can see, Israel will be easing restrictions but the prime minister warning it could be reversed just as quickly.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Anna, and that's because where those numbers stand right now, as of last night they were just over 16,000 confirmed coronavirus cases in Israel, as well as 235 deaths as a result of the coronavirus.

That means the mortality rate has been 1.5 percent, which is better than what we've seen in European countries and better than we've seen in the United States. Crucially there were only 44 new cases in the last 24 hours or so and three new deaths.

According to the ministry of health, it is because those numbers are very positive, that Israel has begun this gradual reopening. Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said it would be based on hygiene, social distancing and listening to the latest restrictions. Because if the numbers start moving in the other direction, the reopening could stop immediately and new restrictions could be back in place. Which would be a very bitter pill for Israelis to swallow.

As for the school system, they are expected to be more coming in over the next few weeks, kindergarten and daycare, grades 1 through 3 and 11 and 12, open on Sunday and that is part of this gradual process. Meanwhile higher education will be later this month.

Malls, are middle next month, markets are expected to open on Thursday, they too will be subject to restrictions so no eating at malls and markets allowed, in an attempt to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

As for gatherings, gatherings of up to 20 people and weddings of up to 50 people but to maintain social distancing requirements, dancing is not allowed. It's this sort of staged opening, this gradual opening that is part of the prime minister Netanyahu's plans.

But they are keeping a very close eye on the numbers, because if they start to move in the wrong direction, this whole process could stop very quickly.

As for the tourism sector, that Netanyahu said by mid-June, hotels, motels would be opened and flights to international destinations, with start, perhaps first to Greece and Cyprus.

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COREN: Oren Liebermann, we appreciate the update, thank you.

For a second day in a row, New Zealand is reporting no new coronavirus cases. The milestone comes amid a conversation about lifting travel restrictions with neighboring Australia.

Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand's prime minister, via videoconference on Tuesday discussed the possibility, of a trans-Tasman travel bubble. But she has since made it clear that the implementation of that idea, it still some time away. CNN's Simon Cullen is tracking the latest developments from Australia and joins us live.

Simon, as we know, New Zealand and Australia have done an amazing job of shutting off borders and containing the virus, New Zealand in particular, recording no new cases for a second day in a row. Tell us how this trans-Tasman bubble will work.

SIMON CULLEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anna, that is the big question, these 2 leaders are trying to resolve right now because, of course, one of the things that is making it possible, is that these countries have a close relationship. One of the closest in the world.

They have taken a remarkably similar report approach on how to deal with the outbreak. Both have limited travel very early on and they have had great success in curbing the coronavirus.

Of course, there are some problems, that both countries would need to resolve, before they could open travel between the two countries. One, of course, is that there is a 14-day quarantine period in each country for anyone who arrives from the outside. That would need to be resolved before they open up travel.

Also both leaders want to make sure that they do not import cases from each other. Australia has a voluntary app to contact and trace people who come into contact with coronavirus. At this stage it is about 25 percent of the population has downloaded it, about 5 million people. New Zealand does not have an app.

So both countries would have to have some sort of data sharing arrangement, so they can keep track of who is coming and going and who is coming into contact with people who are infected with coronavirus.

So there are still a lot of problems, a lot of hurdles that they would need to come up and resolve but both leaders are keen to get the economy back on track and this could be a slow albeit cautious way of doing so.

COREN: Yes, it certainly would benefit both countries. And Jacinda Ardern said New Zealand's borders to the rest of the world, will not be open for a long time.

Do we know how long we are talking?

CULLEN: Well, it is going to be months, at least. It is certainly not going to be weeks, because, of course, even when it comes to the trans-Tasman travel restrictions, they are talking about months. This will not happen it May, maybe not even in June.

So in terms of travel for the rest of the world, I think what we will see is a staged expansion of this proposed travel bubble, there is talk about considering some Pacific Island nations, maybe Southeast Asia.

But Jacinda Ardern has made clear that she does not want to risk a second outbreak and they will be taking an extremely cautious approach to any loosening of the travel restrictions.

COREN: Simon Cullen, joining us there from Australia.

The official word in Europe is that the coronavirus started spreading in January. But a team of French doctors say they have evidence the outbreak happened before that. Details ahead.

Plus the U.K. records its lowest increase in coronavirus deaths since the end of March but the health secretary warns those numbers could go up

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COREN: Doctors in Paris are suggesting the coronavirus was circulating in Europe well before previously thought. France reported its first cases were detected in two people who had traveled to Wuhan, China in late January. But new tests on frozen samples have revealed another patient was infected with the virus a month earlier. The doctors say, identifying the first patient is crucial to understanding how the virus can spread.

CNN's Jim Bittermann is live for us in Paris. And Jim, obviously December was when the first case was reported in Wuhan, China where the virus originated. What have authorities said about this patient in France? JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a little bit, it's kind of a curious story in some ways. Basically, the doctors that they sent to the hospital decided just out of curiosity to go back and test all and review all of the patients that had come into the hospital in the month of December with pneumonia symptoms.

And out of the 24 patients, they found one, this man of Algerian origin, who is back tested positive, They've unfroze his samples, his swabs, from their freezer, and they tested the swabs and in fact, they turned out at one -- for him anyway, turned out to be positive. They did two tests just to verify. And they're not pretty sure that he in fact, was infected with the coronavirus.

His two children also got sick but not his wife. They suspect that perhaps his wife may have been the source of those. The contaminated came from her because she worked in a supermarket next to a sushi stand. And it's possible that perhaps one of the raw fish that was handled next to those -- next to her where work could have been contaminated. Anyway, that's a theory that they're looking at.

What's important about this, Anna, is that, in fact, to the epidemiologists, this shows a little bit if it is proven and shows that a little bit of how the virus may have spread and it gives a better idea, of course, of how it may spread in the future. Anna?

COREN: And, Jim, as far as restrictions go across Europe, there are countries that are easing the lockdowns, France, not so keen. What's the latest where you are?

BITTERMANN: Well, basically the government has gone to the parliament here to afford an extension of the emergency powers, the authority to impose restrictions. And they've asked for an extension until July 24th. It hasn't quite gotten to the parliament yet, but it's likely to.

In any case, they are looking at easy some restrictions next Monday on May 11, and they've already eased a little bit on some of the restrictions. And they're also looking at bringing students back to school, these primary students back to school next week sometime.

But all this is kind of a vague area and the government basically wants the power to impose restrictions if the number of cases goes up. At the moment, the curves are all very positive. The number of ICU patients is going down, the number of deaths are going down, that sort of thing. But in fact, they want to have the power there to re- restrict people if they should need it. Anna?

COREN: Jim Bittermann joining us from Paris, good to see you. Thank you. Well, the world's third worst-hit country, the United Kingdom, recorded its lowest daily death toll since the end of March, the rise of 288 deaths on Monday bringing the total to nearly 29,000.

However, the U.K. Health Secretary Matt Hancock cautioned that figures tend to be lower after the weekend due to a lag in reporting, and that number will likely rise. CNN International Security Editor Nick Payne Walsh is standing by for us in London. Nick, the government's handling of this crisis really does continue to come under scrutiny, doesn't it?

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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: It does. And you're right to point out there, Anna, that this extraordinary low figure of 288 isn't always interesting. Partly, of course, we may see later on this week, that's sort of general number go back up again. We saw exactly the same pattern last week where it dropped after what presumably was low reporting at the weekend, went back up again in the sort of Wednesday, Thursday area to larger numbers.

But also too, because this new 288 number includes deaths that were positive covered test cases outside of hospital as well. So it is for something can't count an extraordinarily low number, certainly. And on top of that, too, you have to remember that Wednesday and Thursday is round about the time when there's supposed to be renewing the travel restrictions and social movement restrictions put in place by the British government.

We understand that probably it will be at the weekend when Boris Johnson lays out the plan for how to possibly lessen those restrictions. And already the British government's finance department, the Treasury is talking about the extraordinary bill it's getting for agreeing to pay people's wages while they go into this particular lockdown.

But these numbers themselves help try and inform what next steps the British government will in fact take. And they're under great scrutiny already because of what was perceived to being the slowness of the British lockdown when it first came in. Many other countries had instituted much wider restrictions on movements.

And frankly here in the U.K., people are have been going through the lockdown in very much this way similar to how Spain is now functioning with a lockdown having been ease. It hasn't been that tough. And so the question essentially is, did the British government purposefully delay as they say because they wanted to introduce these measures so people continue to pay attention to them for a longer period of time. They didn't want to go too early, they said, because people would start to ignore or they essentially fail to see the gravity of the situation.

There was a remarkable week before this all began, in which some modeling from Imperial College here in London suggested a quarter of a million death toll with just the suppression measures that were put in place were continued and wider lockdown wasn't instituted. So a lot of scrutiny here on the government, but specifically moving forward as to how the lockdown can be eased in the days ahead.

COREN: And Nick, I understand that a contacted tracing app is being trialed in the U.K. is being adopted in other countries. But I'm just wondering how the British will feel about their privacy being impacted.

OK, we seem to be having some technical issues there with Nick Paton Walsh from London. Greece hopes to have tourists back by July but the Prime Minister warns it's going to be a very different summer.

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COREN: Brazil's President here are greeting hundreds of supporters Sunday at a rally against social distancing measures due to the coronavirus. Jair Bolsonaro has been a strong opponent of quarantine measures, even denouncing governors and mayors who oppose them. Some protesters carried signs calling for the military to dismantle Congress and the Supreme Court. Two institutions that have clashed with Mr. Bolsonaro.

Well, that prompted Brazil's defense ministry on Monday to put out unusual statements saying it is committed to democracy. The same day as the President's rally, Brazil surpassed more than 100,000 cases. The latest figures from Johns Hopkins University counts more than 7,000 deaths from the virus there.

Well, Greece has been relatively unscathed by the coronavirus, thanks to rigorous testing and monitoring. The country has slowly started to reopen some businesses and hopes to have tourists back by July. But the Prime Minister warns tourist season may be slightly different from what visitors are used to seeing.

Well, Nic Robertson joins us now from Athens, Greece. And Nick, how does this country plans to have tourist back so soon without a second wave?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: One very simple word, carefully, Anna. I mean, that's how they plan to do it. What they've done by beginning to end some of the strictures of a lockdown yesterday is just very small steps. Opening florists, opening hair salons, opening bookstores, but restaurants will remain closed until June, not anticipating tourists until July.

Why are they in this position and able to do this and do it carefully? Well, they've only had less than 150 deaths and around 2,600 infections from the COVID-19 virus. So they have come through this so far very well, but there are very strong reason the Prime Minister explained to me why they had to go into this very hard and fast and strong lockdown.

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ROBERTSON: Greece has done the unexpected. How did you achieve it?

KYRIAKOS MITSOTAKIS, PRIME MINISTER, GREECE: By taking measures very, very early, by communicating our message very clearly, by giving the floor to the -- to the experts to do the talking. And by creating essentially a sense of, of civic duty that people actually had to adhere to the measures, not because they were mandated to do so by law, but because it was for the common good.

ROBERTSON: You have a particular set of circumstance here. You have an elderly population, and you have a healthcare system that is not as strong as it could be. How much did all that factor into your decision making?

MITSOTAKIS: I think we were totally aware of the fact that we had a low number of ICU beds per 100,000 population. We had an older population living in a density such as Athens. So we knew we were looking at what was happening already in Italy, and we knew we could not afford to be overwhelmed by this -- by this pandemic.

So we feel we have reached that point where we have almost completely suppressed the epidemic, at least its first stage, and we can -- we can -- we will gradually begin to relax.

ROBERTSON: You feel like you've dodged the bullet?

MITSOTAKIS: We feel we've done the first bullet very clearly. We have -- again, every, every death is tragic, but our numbers of deaths per million people are one of the lowest in Europe. And again, as you said, that was not expected a couple of months ago.

So we've got the first bullet. Now the question is, can we be as smart in our -- in our opening up strategy and can we convince people to be even more responsible now.

ROBERTSON: Greece's economy is dependent, heavily dependent on tourism, 20 percent or more dependent on tourism. So opening up means letting in tourists.

MITSOTAKIS: Not at the first stage. We are not more dependent than say Portugal or even to a certain extent Spain. We are all southern countries are heavily dependent on tourism. Now, the real question is will we be able to have tourists come in the later parts of the summer?

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ROBERTSON: Can you?

MITSOTAKIS: Only if we agree to very specific protocols. Hopefully, at the European level, let's assume people, you know, get a test before they -- before they fly out, and then we carefully monitor them either an antibody test or a PCR test.

And then of course, the tourism experience this summer may be slightly different from what you -- what you've had in previous years with more social distancing, maybe no bars may be open or no tight crowds, but you can still get a fantastic experience in Greece provided the global epidemic is on a downward path.

But the best case scenario is Greece is open for business July 1st and we're working towards that. So we're preparing towards that. But of course it involves airlines because most people fly into Greece, and very -- you know, very strict but also enforceable protocols.

ROBERTSON: The experience of the sort of winter tourist sites in Europe was they became hot zone for infection, that you have a lot of people coming, you just can't be on top of everyone in real time all the time. Isn't that a risk about it? MITSOTAKIS: It is. And that is why we -- and that's why I've been very clear, we will open up only if we're absolutely certain that we can do it the proper way and we -- that we're taking a risk that is completely manageable. We know from the 1918 pandemics that those cities that actually were early in terms of locking downwards were the ones from the U.S. at least were the ones that actually recovered the fastest.

So although it's impossible to make any predictions regarding the size of the contraction. We know it's going to be massive. We hope that there's going to be some goodwill, accumulated goodwill for the country that will help us as we move towards our next state.

ROBERTSON: Can you put a figure on how big you think the economic loss might be even in percentage terms?

MITSOTAKIS: I've resisted because it's going to be very different. I don't want to give you a big range, but it's going to be much worse if we don't open up at all for the summer. If we managed to get some tours, it's going to be -- it's going to be better. But you know, all -- it's around -- 10 percent seems to be a consensus amongst most European countries as what could happen, which is a massive contraction.

ROBERTSON: I want to circle back to one of the things you said before about the idea that people would be tested before they arrive. When we arrived, the first thing that happened, we had a test. Results came back in 24 hours. What is it you want to see happen and how confident can you be that you're going to get that?

MITSOTAKIS: We can -- I think if we -- again, it's a question of what sort of protocols we agree within the European Union, but I would assume that people will be tested before they get on a plane, not after they arrived -- they arrived here.

ROBERTSON: It's going to be a very different summer, isn't it?

MITSOTAKIS: It is going to be a very different summer but we hope that the worst is behind us. And again, what I -- what I keep as a legacy of this -- of this crisis is this sense of collective success. And I dare to use the word pride. Greeks haven't been proud in a long, long time. You know, for 10 years, we were the punching bag of Europe.

ROBERTSON: Does this changed the situation?

MITSOTAKIS: I think it has changed in terms of our -- in terms of our self-confidence and also confidence in the state. I'm not saying confidence in the government necessarily, but people trust the state. They trust the experts. We went through -- we were the first country that experimented with population. We elected -- we actually elected the populace into power. And what did the populace tell us? Don't listen to experts. They got it all wrong. They were the elites and everything.

The first thing I did was to give the floor to our top, you know, epidemiologist. And he's doing the daily briefings. It's not me. ROBERTSON: This seems to be, dare I say, a very strong message for The United States and the United Kingdom who have both at the moment got relatively populist leaders, who both speak with their medical expert whose track records at the moment on this pandemic probably some of the worst in terms of death and infection rates.

MITSOTAKIS: Well, everyone is doing it the wrong way. This is a way --

ROBERTSON: I know, but is there a right way, and does Greece have the right way?

MITSOTAKIS: Well, I think there is -- I don't think there is a single right way, but I think we clearly did it, at least in terms of the first phase. Until now I think we've done it the right way. Of course, we didn't get everything completely right. But if you look at the numbers, you can't argue with what we -- what we have achieved.

And again, there's not a single element, but if you look at the strategy that we came up with, I think it was right.

ROBERTSON: But does that make your gamble, if I can call it that on opening up, does that make an even bigger gamble because you were right first time and you have --

MITSOTAKIS: Again, we will -- we will only move towards opening up the country if we are sure that we're doing the right thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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ROBERTSON: And that's what it is. It's this careful moving forward have gained something by handling it so well so far. Certainly, that's how the Prime Minister sees it, recognizing a lot to lose, so careful steps, Anna.

COREN: Yes, a great interview, extremely candid. Great get, Nic. Well done. I also want to ask you, even though Greece has managed to contain the epidemic within the population, what about the migrants in the camps? So we know that there are so many migrants in those -- in those camps. Have there been any outbreaks?

ROBERTSON: Yes. I did ask the Prime Minister about migrants. And you know, when it comes to any country's testing program, if you're overlooking a sector of people that live in your country, then you have a potential Achilles heel there, a potential problem.

And Greece did have an outbreak with a group of migrants in a hotel on the mainland. About 150 of them, they found almost overnight, tested positive in this one hotel. And it's sort of been overlooked because people hadn't been tested. It was only when Greek workers working there had symptoms and were tested that the government found out that it had a problem there.

But what the prime minister said when I asked him about this, he said, look, all the camps on the islands here of Greece, they haven't had any outbreaks in migrant camps. That he takes as a positive. He's certainly informed by the situation that they need to pay attention to migrants indeed, under pressure from the European Union. Greece has moved 400 migrants from the island of Lesbos to the mainland.

It certainly is something that the government here is under pressure to focus on, is focusing on, and they certainly understand that knowing what happens in those migrant camp camps in terms of COVID-19 is important to the welfare of the whole population here. Anna?

COREN: Nic Robertson joining us from Athens, Greece. Thank you so much for your reporting. Well, tourism is big business in Spain or at least it was before the coronavirus pandemic. Next, why some in the travel industry there are worried even though the country is opening back up.

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COREN: Well, parts of Spain are emerging from an age week-long national lockdown. The Spanish islands will relax restrictions more quickly than the mainland because of fewer confirmed cases of the Coronavirus.

Meanwhile, Spain's Prime Minister will ask Parliament for a two-week extension of the state of emergency. But the conservative opposition is firmly against what would be a fourth extension of the emergency powers. CNN Scott McLean now with more on how the pandemic has crippled Spain's vital tourism industry.

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SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In the Mediterranean Sea, Formentera is an unspoiled paradise with beautiful beaches, crystal clear water, and almost no sign of the coronavirus. But good luck getting there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're just being told that we have to go to the main port again to get some kind of test.

MCLEAN: 15 minutes before 7:00 a.m., a ferry from nearby Ibiza, we were told we had to take a rapid test for the virus before being allowed to board. Almost an hour and a lot of confusion later, our fingers were pricked, our blood drawn, then the results. Negative and clear the sale.

[02:55:09]

Formentera has had only seven confirmed coronavirus cases and a single death according to the local government. Because of that, in three other islands were given special permission to reopen a week earlier than the rest of Spain. Churches, stores, and restaurant patios are all allowed to open with limited capacity. There's just one thing missing, tourists.

By and large, Spaniards aren't allowed to travel and Spain's borders are shut to almost everyone. On the island, tourism accounts for almost 100 percent of the economy. Alejandra Ferrer, the president of the Formentera Island Council says it went from 700,000 or 800,000 tourists every year down to zero.

How do you come back from this?

It's complicated. It's been a month and a half since all establishments had to close and now they have a lot of new rules to put in place, she says. New rules but no new customers. Pao Marin Nyan doesn't see much point in opening his Prime Oceanview Patio this week, maybe not even this month.

If there's no mobility between islands, there are no tourists, he says. He's banking on domestic tourists this summer, but maybe no foreign ones at all. Juanma Costa is in the same boat. He opened the island's first five-star hotel last year. This year the pool is still green. There's been no reason to open it.

Can Formentera survive without tourists?

JUANMA COSTA, HOTEL OWNER: No. It's impossible. Without tourists in Formentera, we have nothing. We have only the sun and one of the best beaches in the world. No more.

MCLEAN: A tourist-free island paradise might sound nice, just not anyone here. Scott McLean, CNN, Formentera, Spain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COREN: Well, thank you so much for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Anna Coren. CNN NEWSROOM continues with Rosemary Church after this short break.

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