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At Least 47 States Partially Reopening By Sunday As Cases Spike; The New Normal: Masks, Distancing, No Handshakes; Researchers: Inaccurate Testing Is Worse Than Not Testing; Obama On Private Call: "Rule Of Law At Risk" In Flynn Case; Father & Son Charged With Killing Black Jogger In Georgia; Families Turning To Food Banks Amid Massive Unemployment. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 9, 2020 - 15:00   ET




ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And by the end of this weekend, all but three states will have taken steps to reopen from a coronavirus lockdown, even as the United States reports nearly 1.3 million cases and a death toll topping 77,000.

And today there is new concern about the youngest among us. And weather this virus is causing serious inflammatory issues in children. In New York, three young children have died and more than 70 other kids are sick. Doctors say some of these children are not presenting with symptoms until four to six weeks after exposure.

Now, overnight we also learned the virus claimed the life of a famous face, Roy Horn of the magic duo, Siegfried & Roy. He passed away yesterday of complications from this virus. He was 75 and he will be remembered for his stage acts with wild animals, including white tigers and lions.

And further proof that no one is immune from this virus, two people who worked at the White House this week have tested positive. The first, a personal valet to the president. The second, Katie Miller, press secretary to the vice president and wife of Trump Senior Adviser, Stephen Miller.

She attends the White House coronavirus task force briefings. There she is there near the president's podium and here she is just this week, not wearing a mask, speaking to reporters as she traveled with the vice president to Virginia.

And today, Former President Barack Obama delivering a blistering critique of the Trump administration's response to the pandemic describing it as a, quote, absolute chaotic disaster, during a private call with people who worked for him in the White House. More on that in just a moment.

But we begin with that frightening new development in the spread of the coronavirus. Three children in New York have died and dozens more are sick from a syndrome that doctors believe is linked to the virus.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is joining us now. Now, Polo, the assumption we've had for several weeks has been a kids are not affected by this virus in the same way as adults. But now, New York's governor today, says that assumption is in doubt now.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, Ana, Governor Cuomo touched on specifically that, saying, we have work on to that assumption for many weeks, that that is some of the younger people are perhaps not as vulnerable, but now this new, what he described as disturbing and issue suggesting that that is actually not the case, that they are now seeing toddler and elementary school children showing up at hospitals.

And they're showing this inflammatory illness. It's almost -- the way they described it, symptoms that are very similar to toxic shock syndrome, also known as Kawasaki disease. But at this point, they said more needs to be investigated to see if it's actually that.

Bit what they know is that they've now seen at least 73 cases at area hospitals and about three already were fatal cases. Take a listen.


GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Now, these are children who come in who don't present the symptoms that we normally are familiar with with COVID. It's not a respiratory illness. They're not in respiratory distress.

But the illness has taken the lives of three young New Yorkers. So this is new and it's developing.


SANDOVAL: New and developing, those are two key words that the governor used at this point. There is still a lot that we need to find out. So that is why the State of New York is going to be working with the feds on it to try to find out more.

In fact, the Centers for Disease Control turning to the State of New York as they try to develop some kind of criteria for studying these cases, because this certainly will change things especially for parents who are trying to make sure their kids are protected.

CABRERA: Right, and back to school and back to daycare and all of those pieces as well. Polo Sandoval, thanks. And I should mention, we will be speaking with a pediatrician here coming up in the program.

But, first, a blistering critique from President Obama who was caught on tape today calling the Trump administration's handling of the coronavirus a, quote, absolute chaotic disaster. He made these comments on a private phone call with people who used to work with him in the White House. And CNN's White House Correspondent, Jeremy Diamond, is here with us.

This may be the harshest criticism yet by President Obama. Jeremy, what can you tell us about this phone call and how is the White House responding?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, it certainly was a searing indictment by former President Barack Obama of President Trump's handling of this coronavirus pandemic. We heard Obama on that tape calling the response an absolute chaotic disaster and he also said that he believes much of the failure is being driven by trends of selfishness and divisiveness.


BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's part of the reason why the response to this global crisis has been so anemic and spotty, and it would have been bad even with the best of governments.


It has been an absolute chaotic disaster when that mindset of what's in it for me and to heck with everybody else, when that mindset is operationalized in our government.


DIAMOND: And the White House is responding today to the former president's comments. White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany is saying, President Trump's coronavirus response has been unprecedented and saved American lives. She also claimed that there has been bipartisan recognition of the president's responsibility to this pandemic.

Of course, what we do know, Ana, is that there has been some partisan criticism of President Trump's response but there has also been bipartisan criticism and that has come from Republican and Democratic governors alike, as well as apolitical figures like public health experts. Ana?

CABRERA: And, Jeremy, just since we started our show, the death toll has climbed again now topping 78,000.

I understand President Obama weighed in on the Michael Flynn case being dropped. What did he say about that?

DIAMOND: Yes, he certainly did. This is after on Thursday, the Justice Department dropped its case against President Trump's first national security adviser, Michael Flynn. Listen to what President Obama said about that.


OBAMA: And the fact that there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who's been charged with perjury, getting off scot-free, that's the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic -- not just institutional norms, but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DIAMOND: And you can hear there those strikes comments, our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk. Of course, President Obama did misstate the charges that were leveled against Flynn. Flynn had actually pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI, not perjury per se. The White House though did not respond to those comments from the former president. Ana?

CABRERA: Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thank you.

Six feet of distance, masks and gloves, curbside pickup. This year may have started normally enough but nothing is normal now. And some of these new safety measures may be with us to stay.

Here is Brian Todd.


BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At a hair salon in Germany, customers and stylists wear masks. A stylist carefully clips around a man's mask strap. At a bakery in Houston, masks are worn on both sides of the counter. Hand sanitizer is right there by the touch screen.

America's top health experts are saying after the worst of this pandemic has passed, many of these practices may well stay with us.

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: When we go out, it's not going to be back to normal. It's going to be to a new normal with hand sanitizer and perhaps face masks, where it's spreading widely and no touch doors and no touch elevator buttons and lots of ways to engineer risk out of our lives.

TODD: Public health experts hope people keep wearing face masks in public after this and the next waves of coronavirus pass at least for several months, much like millions of people in Asia did for years after the SARS outbreak passed in the early 2000s. And experts say Americans can get used to them.

ALEXANDRA PHELAN, GLOBAL PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERT, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: It is possible that as people get more comfortable wearing masks here in the United States that we will see that acceptance and that we'll see people feel more comfortable wearing masks, masks in the future particularly during flu seasons.

TODD: Top physicians say it's important to remember what masks are used for, usually not to prevent you from getting COVID-19 but to prevent you from transmitting it to others if you're infected.

PETER HOTEZ, DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Just through the act of speaking, you're actually shedding virus into the environment and that mask keeps those virus particles from spreading out -- spreading any appreciable distance so you greatly reduce the likelihood that you're going to spread virus at your place of work or if you're at a restaurant.

TODD: Masks have been become so critical that cottage industries have popped up to get them in circulation and sports gear manufacturers and clothing lines, like Brooks Brothers and Gap have pivoted to mask- making but many are still resisting mask wearing and flouting distancing guidelines like at this Cinco de Mayo gathering in Jacksonville.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, six feet means different things to many people.

TODD: But health officials say distancing has to be part of the new normal. And as for handshakes, America's leading voice in this pandemic says never again.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: As a society, just forget about shaking hands. We don't need to shake hands. We got to break that custom.

TODD: And one expert says there are practices we haven't thought about during this pandemic that we should get ready to adopt.


HOTEZ: We're finding people who have been in places where there's a lot of virus around, like in hospitals, have significant amount of virus on their shoes, so possibly taking off our shoes when we walk in houses, that may become kind of a new normal.

TODD: Dr. Peter Hotez says another part of the new normal may very well be that we used to hearing from our top scientists more and more, maybe even looking to them more than our elected leaders. He says, for decades, scientists have been largely invisible. But now, in going forward, they may very well become some of our most popular public voices.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.


CABRERA: Joining us now the former acting Director of the CDC, Dr. Richard Besser, and Physician and Public Health Specialist Dr. Saju Mathew.

Dr. Besser, do you agree that this pandemic might make handshakes a thing of the past or that wearing masks will become part of our culture as it is in Asia? Are these some of these social changes here to stay?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING CDC DIRECTOR: Well, you know, culture change is hard. It's a really hard thing to effect. The recommendation on masks, you know, the CDC put out guidance or tried to put out guidance looking at what steps should be adopted in workplaces, in schools and other settings and wearing masks is one of the things that they're recommending going forward.

The caution I give though is that the protective value of masks is very small. And so you don't want people to think because they're wearing a mask, they can get within six feet of other people. They can do things they otherwise wouldn't do. The ideas that it provides added protection in terms of spreading but it shouldn't be what you think of as the main way you're going to prevent this from spreading to other people.

CABRERA: Dr. Matthew when, it comes to going back to work, I want to get your thoughts on this idea, the real estate company that owns the 32-story office tower at Rockefeller Center plans to use thermal cameras to measure body temperatures as employees file into work every day.

In the State of Utah, they've launched a voluntary app that uses your phone's location to detect who a sick person talked to, what stores or restaurants they were in, if not, everyone is going to be able to get tested for coronavirus, is this the kind of strategy we need?

DR. SAJU MATHEW, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I agree with that strategy, Ana. I mean, I think that we need to still go back to the basic public health measures and not give up on trying to get as many people tested, identified and isolated.

But I'm really happy that a lot of employers are really trying to make sure that they incorporate temperature checks. I get my temperature checked twice a day. We know that the president recently having been exposed to somebody with COVID-19 gets his checked twice a day. I think that's important.

And I also think that contact tracing, Ana, is something we really need to talk more about. I was reading this article about South Korea about seven weeks ago, we had the same number of cases in South Korea and the U.S. Seven weeks later, they have under 300 deaths and we have over 70,000 deaths. I know the populations are different but used a highly technologically advanced tracing system and that really helped them to really attack the virus.

CABRERA: Dr. Besser, you talked about the CDC guidelines. Well, we reported this week, the Trump administration rejected the CDC's draft guidelines for how states and businesses can safely reopen. One of the concerns was that they were overly prescriptive.

That's a quote because the guidance in rural Tennessee shouldn't be the same guidance for urban New York City. What are your thoughts on that? Is it better for each state to make decisions for themselves?

BESSER: Well, you know, I worked at CDC for 13 years and spent a lot of time on guidance. And what states want, what hospitals want, what facilities want is really detailed information that they can then adapt and adopt locally. And the reason you do want to give leeway for local change, and the CDC does this, is that not all states will be in the same phase of this at the same time.

So, for instance, there are some states seeing a two-week reduction in the number of cases. That puts them into phase one. There are no states that are beyond that into two more weeks of reduction. But you can imagine that they would.

And what states do should depend on what's happening locally. But everyone should be working out of the same playbook. You shouldn't have states having to reinvent this based on their own experts. You really want a national guidance.

CABRERA: Well, we're all interconnected, right? Dr. Matthew, one thing we do know is that as these states are reopening with different types of restrictions, more and more people are traveling to the states that are open from other areas that may have greater restrictions in place. In Georgia, for instance, more than 62,000 out of towners recently went to visit. So how does that impact things?

MATTHEW: Well, I think we need to be really careful. If you're going into a state where there's been more relaxation of policies doesn't mean that you need to let your guard down.


I'd like to believe that when they have that meeting that they still were trying to maintain six feet and people were wearing masks.

It can go either way, Ana. You can visit a state where the distancing guidelines and people are going back to the bars and salons where things are more relaxed. But you really need to understand that this virus is out there. And if you've not been tested, you could be bringing a virus into a state.

So we still need to be careful and practice all the guidelines that are in place but still, you know, enjoy. We need to talk about a new normal, as our reporter mentioned, but that new normal should be within guidelines.

CABRERA: Dr. Besser, you wrote an op-ed about the disproportionate effect this pandemic has had on communities of color. And I want to read a quote from it. A painful truth, you write, we are seeing in real-time is that how well people navigate this pandemic depends largely on the color of their skin and the amount of money they have. It's that stark. We cannot undo generations of racism, discrimination and inequality in one season, one year or even one decade.

And I want to provide some data for our viewers, because right now, this data shows African-Americans and Latinos are seeing higher rates of infection and the latest unemployment report shows communities of color suffering higher unemployment as well with an 18.9 percent unemployment rate for Hispanics in April, for example.

So, Dr. Besser, what is your advice to these governors or local officials who are trying to accelerate the reopening process so that they address the disparate impact?

BESSER: Yes. You know, Ana, if states move forward with rapidly reopening the economy without having in place all of the necessary measures and systems to protect all residents, the burden on black Americans, Latinos, lower income people, people in rural communities, is just going to escalate. You have to make sure that you can do testing of all communities and you have to be able to break down your data so you know are there particular neighborhoods that are getting hit hard.

And as we talk about masks and the ability to wear masks and the need for that, we need to make sure everyone has those and people who are going back to work, they need to know and be secure that the systems are in place and that their health is the top priority. That's one reason you need national standards, you need standards that enforceable so that all people and people who are forced to go back to work because they need to go to work to put food on table and pay the rent, you need to make sure that they're protected.

And right now, I don't see any state that has those systems in place.

CABRERA: I know New York's governor did address this in his press conference talking about putting in some PPE for those communities that we're discussing as well as an increase in testing sites in those areas where there's a high minority of population. Dr. Richard Besser and Dr. Saju Mathew, I really appreciate both of you being here. Thank you for your expertise and for sharing it with us.

BESSER: Thank you, Ana.

MATTHEW: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Just ahead, a closer look at the Michael Flynn case from a legal perspective. Elie Honig will join us.

Plus, why one health official says coronavirus testing is the wild, wild west.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.



CABRERA: Right now, there is a problem with coronavirus testing in the United States. The tests are only as good as their accuracy and doctors are not completely happy with the reliability of the current crop of tests.

Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports.


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If you've heard anything lately about tests, it's that we haven't performed enough of them in the United States.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Today, everyone is so focused on getting tested and they miss the point that a bad test is worse than no test.

GUPTA: That may be another more fundamental problem. Just how good are the tests in the first place?

OSTERHOLM: The FDA basically has created a wild, wild west environment for this, where under their approval process in an emergency basis, they've let tests on the market that basically have a very, very wide range of results. GUPTA: Michael Osterholm is the Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

OSTERHOLM: The quality of these tests right now vary a great deal and that's a challenge in terms of understanding if you get a negative result, is it really negative.

GUPTA: A molecular diagnostic test can determine if you have actual virus inside of you by drawing a sample from your nasal pharynx or from your saliva by spitting into a vial, like I did, and then testing it for genetic traces of the virus.

How well the test can find those genetic markers is known as sensitivity. If a test has poor sensitivity, it will result in too many false negative results, that means too many people testing negative for the virus when they are actually infected.

DR. GARY PROCOP, HEAD OF VIROLOGY, CLEVELAND CLINIC: We undertook a study where we looked at over 200 specimens and tested them by all five methods and there are differences between these tests.

GUPTA: Dr. Gary Procop is Head of Virology at the Cleveland Clinic. He and his team found three tests that have sensitivity over 95%, the one from the CDC, Cepheid and Roche, meaning they caught nearly all but 5 percent of cases. But the highly touted Abbott I.D. NOW test, which can give results in minutes, missed up to 15 percent of infected patients.

Another study found it potentially missed 25 percent of infections. And that's a concern, because despite their negative test results, those people are actually infected and can still spread the virus.

PROCOP: You would never want to use that test to screen somebody in the hospital to put them into a COVID negative unit because in that case you can't afford to make a mistake.

GUPTA: in a statement, Abbott said the type of viral transport media, the chemical used to carry the virus sample could be diluting samples.


We immediately communicated with our customers that they should use the direct swab method. The findings of Procop's study are still yet to be peer reviewed.

PROCOP: Just because we need something to put out emergently doesn't mean we shouldt put out things that don't work appropriately.

GUPTA: When asked if accuracy was sacrificed at the expense of speed, an FDA spokesperson told CNN, FDA oversight doesn't end with an EUA or emergency use authorization. We will continue to track these tests and take action if required.


CABRERA: Our thanks to Dr. Gupta for that. Former President Obama says the rule of law is at risk, why the Michael Flynn case is sparking new outcry, next, live in the CNN Newsroom.




WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: A crime cannot be established here. They did not have a basis for a counterintelligence investigation against Flynn at that stage.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: When history looks back on this decision, how do you think it will be written?

BARR: Well, history is written by the winners, so it largely depends on who is writing the history.


CABRERA: That, of course, was Attorney General Bill Barr defending his decision to drop the criminal case against former national security adviser, Michael Flynn. Flynn had previously pleaded guilty twice to lying to the FBI during the Mueller investigation.

Before taking office, former President Obama warned President Trump about Flynn. And now Obama is criticizing Barr's decision saying, he fears, quote, "The rule of law is at risk."

That brings us to our weekly cross-exam segment with CNN legal analyst and former federal and state prosecutor, Elie Honig.

Let's get right to it. Because one viewer asks, Elie: How unusual was it for the Justice Department and A.G. Barr to ask a judge to dismiss the case against Michael Flynn?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Ana, I was a prosecutor for 14 years and I have never seen anything like this. This is a dark moment for the Justice Department.

Now, as you said, Michael Flynn pled guilty to lying to the FBI about Russia. The president then fired Flynn for precisely that reason. But later, the president started to say that the case was an injustice.

Then out of the tens of thousands of cases in front of him, Attorney General William Barr ordered a re-examination of this specific case. And I think, at that point, it became clear where this was headed.

Last week, you and I talked about how it looked like the Justice Department was gearing up to move to dismiss the Flynn charges. This week, that's exactly what they did.

Now, it's not entirely over yet. The federal judge on the case has to decide whether or not to dismiss the case. We'll see what he does. Now, I read the Justice Department's motion here. It's just a mess. It

twists and distorts the facts and the law, all in Michael Flynn's favor.

Once again, Ana, I think William Barr has undermined his own credibility and independence.

CABRERA: Let me ask you about another story that's breaking through the pandemic headlines this weekend. A father and son facing murder and aggravated assault charges for the shooting death of a black man in Georgia.

Now, police say Ahmaud Arbery was jogging when the two men chased him down and shot him during a struggle. Now, this happened back in February. Video of the killing sparked outrage this week and the case will now go to a grand jury.

And one viewer asks: What are the possible outcomes when the grand jury hears the case?

HONIG: It's crucial to understand a grand jury is different from a trial jury. A trial jury determines guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That is the highest legal standard we have in our system. And trial jury has to be unanimous. You need a 12 to zero vote in order to convict.

A grand jury is only looking for what's called probable cause, a much lower legal standard. And what they do is indict. They issue a charge or an accusation.

And in Georgia law, you only need 12 out of a max of 23 grand jurors, so essentially a majority. It's much easier to indict someone in a grand jury.

Now, there are various potential charges here under Georgia state law. There's murder. There's voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.

And the key two legal concepts that separate the more serious charge, murder, from the manslaughter charges are malice, first of all. Was there deliberate intent to kill as opposed to some accident?

And in the second one provocation. Was there something done that provoked this use of force?

Ana, I've charged and tried murder cases. Based on that video, based on the publicly available evidence, based on Georgia law, this certainly looks to me like it should be a murder charge. But we'll have to wait to see what the grand jury does.

CABRERA: Let me ask you about the coronavirus pandemic and how it could impact the upcoming election. We are just 178 days away from the general election and, of course, the debate over mail-in ballots is front and center. The president has been tweeting a lot about it.

One viewer asks: With the coronavirus posing challenges for the upcoming election, who legally decides whether the states use mail-in balloting?

HONIG: So, generally, that falls to the states to determine the manner of mail-in balloting. Five states have all mail systems at this point.

Now, about 28 states have what's called a no-excuse system. Meaning, if you want to vote by mail, you can. No questions asked as to why. And the rest of the states have what's called a cause system. Meaning you need to show some reason why you want to vote by mail-in ballot, age or disability, for example.

The trend has been towards broader mail-in rules. Just in the last couple of years, we've seen Pennsylvania and Virginia go to broader no-excuse systems.

And, of course, this all becomes more important given the complexities of the coronavirus crisis.

Now, the U.S. Congress could legislate. They could pass a law saying, here's how it's going to be done through the whole country. But you need to see agreement from the Democratic-controlled House and the Republican-controlled Senate. I think that's unlikely.


As you said, the president has been a vocal critic of mail-in voting. But it's key to understand he cannot take unilateral action here. He cannot simply issue an executive order banning or expanding mail-in voting. He just does not have that power under the law.

CABRERA: All right, Elie Honig, as always, good information. Thank you, sir.

HONIG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Nearly 15 percent of Americans are now unemployed. A closer look at what the numbers mean and how families are coping just ahead.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Don't go anywhere.


CABRERA: The U.S. economy lost 20.5 million jobs in April. Just think about that number, 20.5 million jobs. It is the worst jobs report since the government began tracking this data in 1939.


As CNN's Kyung Lah reports, families are turning to food banks for help.


ARMAN SARIAN, SMALL BUSINESS OWNER: It is hard, emotionally, financially. Everything. Our life has changed 180 degrees.


SARIAN: Overnight. It happened overnight.

LAH (voice-over): Arman Sarian tells the story you hear again and again at food banks across today's America.

He pulled up for free food in his BMW.

Until coronavirus hit, his Los Angeles printing shop more than supported his family of four.

LAH (on camera): Are you scared?

SARIAN: Yes, but as a household of the family, I don't show it. I have two teenagers to raise up. We have to keep up the good spirit, but we're all scared.

LAH (voice-over): The lines of the needy and the numbers of unemployed all harken back to the darkest time in America's economy, the Great Depression.

Like then, this downturn touches millions upon millions.


LAH: Entire industries halted, like air travel.



LAH (voice over): Cruise ships, tourism and theme parks and retail and restaurants, from Las Vegas to Main Streets across the country, gutting jobs.

LARRY HARRIS, MARSHALL SCHOOL OF BUSINESS, USC: Think about five fingers, 20 percent is one out of five. So, one out of five people in the United States who wants to be working is no longer working. And that's jaw dropping.

LAH (voice over): But there is a difference with today's economy.

HARRIS: We know exactly what's causing the job loss. In the Great Depression, people understood there wasn't enough money but they didn't really understand why.

LAH (voice over): A vaccine, a medical breakthrough could help put this father back to work.

LAH (on camera): Have you ever had to do anything like this before?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. This is the first time for me.

LAH (voice over): He is a writer and actor in Hollywood. An estimated 750,000 jobs in California have been impacted as the entertainment industry suddenly stopped.

Driving up with his son, he said he wanted to talk in support of the L.A. regional food bank, but only if we didn't use his name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's difficult for a lot of us to try and provide for our families and you know, still maintain some dignity. So, once you realize you're not going back to work for a while, it's pretty heartbreaking.

LAH (voice over): Kyung Lah, CNN, Glendale, California.


CABRERA: So many families are in the same boat having those feelings and frustrations and concerns.

With us now is CNN's chief business correspondent Christine Romans.

Christine, first, what is your reaction to seeing people driving up to food banks in BMWs?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Ana, I guess it shows you how unexpected it is for people who weren't prepared. Right? This happened so quickly and is so big and so widespread, shutting down the American economy, that it really swept a lot of people into a precarious situation who weren't expecting it.

CABRERA: I want to try to put this unprecedented 20.5 million jobs lost in perspective. Because in the financial crisis of 2008, 8.7 million jobs were lost. So talking about more than double that number lost just in one month. How devastating is this?

ROMANS: It's so stressful because, all of a sudden, all of these people -- you heard that one in five statistic -- one in five people working at the beginning of March are not working today.

They have rent to pay. They have bills to pay. They have food. They may have kids home from school who they're trying to keep their kids calm and educated. And there's not money coming in.

Maybe they are qualified for unemployment benefits. There's extra money from the federal government, $600 a week. But I have talked to so many people who haven't even seen the first unemployment check yet. And they've had to write two rent checks.

So this is such a day-to-day anxiety for people, kitchen-table anxiety. And the numbers are just simply staggering, unimaginable. These kinds of numbers, this many people out of the labor force or out of work is just an -- it's a disaster.

However, when you look at those job numbers from Friday, you know, 18 million of those are considered temporary layoffs.


ROMANS: So the key now is to make sure we get people back to work. CABRERA: I want to play what White House economic adviser, Kevin

Hassett, told our colleague, Poppy Harlow, along the lines of what you just mentioned, in that the numbers don't tell the whole story. Listen.


KEVIN HASSETT, CHAIRMAN, ECONOMIC COUNCIL OF ADVISORS: The next one should be around 20. I was thinking this might be as much as 20 but we had a big decline in the labor force as well.

So the numbers are going to be probably -- it's probably going to be best to look at, as you said, the U-6. And that's at 22 percent. Then it'll probably be 25 percent in the next report.


HASSETT: And then, hopefully, from there, it'll start to head back in the right direction.



CABRERA: You mentioned, Christine, how, you know, some Americans who lost their jobs aren't actively looking for jobs so maybe they aren't counted in the latest number. How much worse do you think the actual number may be?

ROMANS: I think he's absolutely right. It could be 20 percent, 25 percent, the next number. He's talking about the number called the U- 6. There's some people who would like to be working full time but are working part time or not being entirely used the way they'd like to be in the labor market so-called the underemployment rate.


I'm really worried, you know, not from an economic standpoint but from a family well-being standpoint, about people who are trying to make tough decisions now, who, if you have an elderly relative and you have kids home from school, and you are asked to go back to work or you think you can go back to work, who in the family is going to take care of the household?

I think there are going to be some big questions in the weeks ahead for whether and where and under what circumstances people will go back to work when this opens up.

CABRERA: Christine Romans, thank you very much.

We're back in a moment.


JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR (voice-over): More than 50,000 ships crisscross the globe bringing us the goods we need to survive, accounting for about 80 percent of global trade by volume.

But the fuel these giants of the sea burn has made it one of the largest polluters in the world.

Since the start of the year, new regulations from the U.N. agency that oversees the shipping sector have come into force. The International Maritime Organization rules prohibit ships from using fuels containing more than 0.5 percent sulfur.

ROEL SNIEDER, PROFESSOR, DEPARTMENT OF GEOPHYSICS, COLORADO SCHOOL OF MINES: By reducing by over 75 percent the sulfur emissions from shipping, we have seen studies that pointed out reduction of premature deaths immediately after the introduction of the requirement by over a half a billion future deaths.

DEFTERIOS: John Defterios, CNN.




CABRERA: Now to a remarkable look at one of the side effects of this pandemic. Wildlife is the life blood of South Africa's tourism industry. But with travel halted, virtual safaris are now in big demand.

CNN's David McKenzie had exclusive access to one of the country's largest safari parks to see how the industry and the animals are adapting.


DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In South Africa, the elephants at least are free to roam.

TRISHALA NAIDU, GUIDE, WILDEARTH: It's just beautiful, the light is just stunning.

MCKENZIE: But its conservation tourism industry is under lockdown. Which means, Maude and her cameraman are some of the last people left in Sabi Sands.

They broadcast animal sightings twice a day for free --

NAIDU: The trunk seems to be stuck on its tusk.

MCKENZIE: -- that people would normally pay thousands of dollars to see in person. It's live --

NAIDU: You still have this feeling like, you know, I can do it. I can do it. Oh -- oh, oh.

MCKENZIE: -- and unscripted.

(on camera): What do you see over there?

NAIDU: Do you see wild dogs. I had a dog feeling today.

MCKENZIE: So, there's a pack of wild dogs that just come in the middle of our interview through this small dam. And this is incredible to see. I mean, my entire life of coming to the bush, I've never seen wild dogs like this.

NAIDU: You beautiful puppies. Just gorgeous.

I'm going to give them a bit of space.


MCKENZIE (voice-over): WildEarth was around long before the pandemic, but now it's viewership of safari life has shot up fivefold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jonathan, age six in the USA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, birds (inaudible) --

GRAHAM WALLINGTON, CEO, WILDEARTH TV: Our viewers around the world to be able to be here with us during this experience is --

MCKENZIE: Graham Wallington never imagined his company success could signal a collapse of the industry. Across Africa, nearly eight million tourism jobs are now at risk.

WALLINGTON: That's what we have to figure out now. We would figure out how we can build private safari experiences. How we can create online experiences that can give revenue, you know, down here to the people keeps us -- keep this whole conservation engine running.

JAPIE VAN NIEKERK, OWNER, CHEETAH PLAINS: We need people to sustain this nature and to sustain this business.

MCKENZIE: Owners here know, it's not as easy as locking their front doors and coming back when the pandemic is over.

NIEKERK: Tourism keeps the rhinos alive, keeps the elephants alive, keeps the lions alive, the leopards. Tourism pays for that. No one else will.


NAIDU: Look at this. We have managed to come right with our kitty cats.

MCKENZIE (on camera): Someone is stuck in their apartment in Italy or in New York, what does this mean do you think for them?

JAMES HENDRY, GUIDE, WILDEARTH: I hope that it means some kind of healing. The whole of our species has been infected or affected by one thing. And there is a tremendous feeling of solidarity.

Nature is just doing its thing. Nature just carries on. MCKENZIE (voice-over): But for this iconic reserve to survive, they

desperately need to adapt.

David McKenzie, CNN, Sabi Sands, South Africa.


CABRERA: Such beautiful animals there.

For almost 10 years, grand champion pit master and former "CNN Hero," Stan Hays, has brought the comfort of barbecue to those in need. And now he's lending a helping hand again during this pandemic.



STAN HAYS, "CNN HERO": Our model was based on scale and bringing together a large number of volunteers.

We've got meals coming.

Be able to push those meals out.

With COVID-19, we have actually had to rethink how we do things. We find restaurants that have closed, pay them to reopen, and bring back employees, and put 2,500 meals a day back into the community.

Meals, creating jobs, and helping businesses, it's a triple win. Together, we're just feeding more people.


CABRERA: Anderson Cooper shares this full story and how you can get involved at