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Dr. Fauci Laying the Consequences of Loosening Restrictions; One Positive Can Infect a Whole Community; Coronavirus Penetrates Putin's Inner Circle; New Illness Prey on Children; Malnutrition and Food Scarcity Could Lead 1.2 Children to Die in Six Months; Coronavirus Pandemic; Dr. Fauci And The U.S. President, A Task Force Timeline; U.S. Markets Look To Avoid Another Huge Sell-Off; Debates Rages Over How And When To Reopen Economies; Officials Order Tesla Plant To Cease Operations; U.K. Easing Restrictions On Movement; Germany, Decline In Infections After Earlier Outbreaks; Germany Finds Unique Ways To Keep Culture Alive; Top U.S. Diplomat Arrives In Israel Amid Virus Crisis; Celebrities Offer Words Of Encouragement To 2020 Grads. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired May 13, 2020 - 03:00   ET




ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. You are watching CNN Newsroom. And I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead.


ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: My concern is that we will start to see little spikes that might turn into outbreaks.


CHURCH: Doctor Anthony Fauci warning against a rushed reopening of the United States, putting him on a collision course with President Donald Trump.

And a new unsettling report shows inaction towards COVID-19 could threaten the lives of the hundreds of thousands of children in Africa.

Plus, how one man's visit to a nightclub in Seoul is linked to a cluster of more than 100 new cases in South Korea.

Well, more suffering and death if the U.S. rushes to reopen. That is the prediction from America's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci is warning U.S. lawmakers that reopening too quickly could become a setback on the road to economic recovery.

His grim words come as the death toll tops 82,000 in the United States, and at least 48 states will be partially reopened by this weekend. But a new model often cited by the White House predicts that if social distancing is not kept in place, the United States death toll could jump to 147,000 by early August.


CHRISTOPHER MURRAY, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION: What has happened is that states are relaxed early, people have heard the message. They've gotten out, they become more mobile, they've having more contact. And we're seeing the effects of already of that transition, and then that's playing out in the projections, unfortunately.


CHURCH: CNN's Phil Mattingly has more now from Tuesday's hearing in Washington.


FAUCI: The consequences could be really serious.


PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The White House's top public health officials issuing a stark warning as President Trump presses to reopen the country.


FAUCI: My concern is that if some areas, cities, states, of what have, you jump over those various checkpoints and prematurely open up without having the capability of being able to respond effectively and efficiently, my concern is that we will start to see little spikes that might turn into outbreaks.


MATTINGLY: A highly anticipated Senate hearing, a surreal reminder of the new world facing everyone as the U.S.' COVID-19 death toll surpasses 80,000.

Republican Senator Lamar Alexander urging the administration to ramp up testing.


SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R-TN): All roads back to work, back to school, lead through testing, tracking, isolation, treatment, vaccine. This requires widespread testing.


MATTINGLY: As the Democrats train their fire on the administration for an array of perceived failures by the president.


SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-WA): President Trump has been more focused on fighting against the truth than fighting this virus. And Americans have sadly paid the price.


MATTINGLY: Conflicting information about reopening guidelines.


SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): You worked for a president who is frankly undermining our efforts to comply with the guidance that you've given us.


MATTINGLY: And the administration's overall response.


SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): The time for magical thinking is over here.


MATTINGLY: But the health officials touting progress on the country's fight, with one big caveat. The virus has not yet under control.


FAUCI: I think we are going in the right direction but the right direction does not mean we have by any means total control of this outbreak.


MATTINGLY: With signs of progress on a vaccine, but not before schools restart in the fall.


FAUCI: the phase one will directly go into phase two, three in late spring and early summer. And if we are successful, we hope to know that in the late fall and early winter.

The idea of having treatments available, or a vaccine, to facilitate the reentry of students into the fall term would be something that would be a bit of a bridge too far.


MATTINGLY: And the federal official overseeing U.S. testing efforts projecting a massive ramp up in the months ahead.


BRETT GIROIR, U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: By September, taking every aspect of development, authorization, manufacturing, and supply chain into consideration, we project that our nation will be capable of performing at least 40 to 50 million tests per month.


MATTINGLY: But it was Republican Senator Mitt Romney responded to the claims of testing success with this sharp retort.



SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I find our testing record nothing to celebrate, whatsoever.


MATTINGLY: Anthony Fauci also facing criticisms from GOP Senator Rand Paul.


SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): And as much as I respect you, Dr. Fauci. I don't think you are the be end-all.


MATTINGLY: But Fauci, pushing back.


FAUCI: I never made myself out to be the end all. I only voices this. I don't give advice about economic things. I don't give advice about anything other than public health.


CHURCH: Joining me now to talk more about all of this is CNN medical analyst and epidemiologist, Dr. Larry Brilliant. Good to have you with us.

LARRY BRILLIANT, CNN MEDICAL ANALSYT: Thank you, Rosemary. Good to be with you.

CHURCH: So, at the Senate hearing Tuesday, we heard from top infectious diseases expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci who issued a stark warning that the U.S. does not have the coronavirus under control, and if the country reopens up too fast it will result in more deaths and infections.

What's your response to that and to the pushback he received from Senator Rand Paul who told Dr. Fauci he was not the end all voice on this?

BRILLIANT: Well, let me first disagree with Senator Paul. Anthony Fauci is the be all and end-all. He is the gold standard against we all epidemiologists measure ourselves. And what he said was accurate. If you think just back two months ago when we had only a couple of

dozen deaths in the United States, now we are over 80,000. And now Chris Murray's new model is predicting that we will have 140,000 cumulative deaths by the first week of August. That's an explosive growth in a virus that can cause that much death in such a small number of months, with such an acceleration.

We do not have it under control. The virus is leading us, not the other way around. And we open up recklessly at our own expense. We have to open up, but we have to do it cautiously, and there has to be a quid pro quo.

Every time we open up, we have to cram down on the existing viruses, put a circle around them with absolute quarantine. If we quarantine a few people then the many, the rest of us, can begin to get out. But we can't do one without the other.

CHURCH: And Dr. Fauci also said this in response to Senator Rand Paul pushing for schools to be open. Let's listen.


FAUCI: We don't know everything about this virus. And we really better be very careful, particularly when it comes to children. I think we better be careful. If we are not cavalier and thinking that children are completely immune of the deleterious effects.


CHURCH: So, Dr. Fauci trying to dispel this myth that children are not impacted by the virus. Rand Paul is a doctor himself. Are you surprised by his rejection of Dr. Fauci's advice, particularly when it comes to children? Do you feel he is informed?

BRILLIANT: Well, in fairness, this is a novel virus. We are all learning as we go. There is no textbook on it. You couldn't have learned this in medical school. And the early reports were that children were not affected, but that they carried the disease back to their parents or grandparents. And for that reason, it was important more so than the disease that they themselves got.

Recently, a very small percentage of children, and I say these to parents that are listening, a very small percentage of children have a disease that looks like quasi -- a disease that we used to see very often in immune -- immunological diseases. It's a very rare disease but it's a very dangerous disease of the immune system.

So, children are not free when they get the virus. It's not that they don't have symptoms. But they have fewer. But the reason to be careful about schools, I think, is that in our culture, schools are not just where the kids go. It's where they get their lunch. It's where they socialize. It's where they learn to work in groups.

And it's where parents, who have been so difficult, it's been so tough for everybody being home for eight weeks not going anywhere, to send the kids off to school means a working mother or a working father get some respite.

So, opening schools is important. We have a lot of pressure to do it. But we can't do it if it costs us lives. And that is a very difficult and fraught decision. And we need wise people, good leaders, thoughtful decision-makers to make that choice.

CHURCH: Right. And Dr. Fauci and other public health officials testifying with him Tuesday agreed that COVID-19 testing is not at the level it should be in this country, despite President Trump claiming Monday that the U.S. had met the moment and prevailed on testing. How much testing is enough, do you think?


BRILLIANT: So if you have a cancer, a melanoma on your nose, I hope you don't, I hope I don't, and you did one test three or four days after you saw it, and the surgeon could come and just take that one cancer away. That would be enough testing.

But if you waited three months and then you did 1,000 tests after the cancer had already spread and metastasized through your body, it's not the quantity of tests. It's the timeliness and the number and the quantity and the quality of the tests that are important.

We do not have enough for this moment in time, when we have so many cases in every county in the United States. If we assume, for example, that we had 100,000 active cases, that's the place where the virus is, that's where it's spreading, I'm making that number up.

But if we were doing a kind of contact tracing of 50 people for every case, then we would need almost five million tests, just to surround that one active case. All those active cases. And put them in jail with quarantine.

You can't do the quarantine until you've done the contact tracing and testing them. And that's the difference. If we had that number of tests that we have today back three months ago, we would have plenty of tests. But for this time, it's not enough.

CHURCH: Right.

BRILLIANT: We need brilliance.

CHURCH: Right. And doctor, of course, none of us will be getting back to any normal that we used to know until there is a vaccine. When do you think that will likely be? And how ready is the U.S. and the rest of the world to roll this out to every citizen across the globe, if and when that vaccine comes?

BRILLIANT: Well, that is exactly the question. You put your finger on it. When we get a vaccine, which we all hope will be 12 to 18 months from now in sufficient quantities, when you have a vaccine, you don't get rainbows and unicorns. When you have a vaccine what you get is a vaccination program.

And as you say, we are going to have to deliver the vaccine to corner, the most remote corner, the poorest and most report people in the world in 220 countries. So, we have to figure out, where does the vaccine go? Where is it manufactured? How is it distributed? How do we organize the program as large and as the polio eradication program and do it in a fair equitable way?

We should be thinking about that now. Our leaders should be coming together with the WHO and GAVI, which is the Global Vaccines that Seth Berkley admirably runs, and we should be having those conversations in anticipation of having the vaccine. It will take us months if not a year to plan for that vaccination program.

CHURCH: Yes. It is critical, that planning. Dr. Larry Brilliant, thank you so much for talking with us. I appreciate it.

BRILLIANT: Rosemary, thank you for having me.

CHURCH: Well, a new report finds the impact on children across the globe could be devastating during the pandemic. Analysis by the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health estimates that an additional 1.2 million children under five could die in six months if action is not taken.

It found that reductions in routine health service, and decreased access to food could cause wasting or acute malnutrition. The report also estimates that 9 of 10 countries, most likely to see excess child mortality, are in sub-Saharan Africa.

And CNN's David McKenzie joins me now from Johannesburg. So, David, this new report sounds an alarm warning of increased child mortality, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa. What efforts are being made to help children in the midst of this pandemic?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think before we get to that, Rosemary, we need to understand what these numbers mean, because there is the worst-case scenario tracked by these models suggesting up to 6,000 children a day could be dying because of an unintended consequences of the public health initiatives put in place for COVID- 19. Six thousand a day.

And if you look at the worst affected countries, 9 out of 10 of them in this worst-case scenario are in sub-Saharan Africa. These are countries that for years have made real gains in improving the levels of child mortality and maternal mortality through routine immunizations, good nutrition, antibiotic care, and postnatal care.

You know, people are stuck in their homes because of lockdowns or too afraid to go to local clinics in these countries because of the initiatives to stop COVID-19. You could see these massive spikes in child mortality, according to this report.

Now what many people might not realize, Rosemary, that since around the 1990, there have been very impressive gains in reducing child mortality. It's in fact one of the biggest good news stories that is really under reported.

[03:15:07] Now I think policymakers will be looking at these really alarming numbers will be in low and middle-income countries. Does it make sense to have lockdowns like they are. Are they needing to really push to get better services and more financial support in the time where every country is looking after themselves?

I think these numbers are very alarming in the worst-case scenario, even the best-case scenario. They really estimate that up to a quarter million children will die in just six months that shouldn't die because of COVID-19 measures put in place.

And so, this will be, I think a wakeup call for some policymakers, particularly in the African context, on you know, what, how to really balance the needs of the public at large and the needs of children and mothers, which could be extremely badly affected, according to these models. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes. Those numbers are just shocking. David McKenzie bringing us details there from Johannesburg. I appreciate it.

And still to come here on CNN newsroom, the virus and Vladimir Putin. As cases surge in Russia, the president faces growing pressure over his government's response. back with that in just a moment.


CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone.

Well, South Korea has confirmed another 28 new coronavirus cases linked to a cluster in Seoul's nightclubs. With more than 100 cases in total, and potentially thousands of people exposed, the outbreak is fueling fears of a possible second wave.

Authorities are combing through a security video, credit card statements, even cellphone data, to try and find anyone who may have been in the district when the virus was present.

Our Paula Hancocks joins me now from Seoul. Good to see you, Paula. So, it is a warning of course to the rest of the world, showing just how contagious this virus is. How is the contact tracing progressing right now?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosemary, up until this point, officials tell us that they have tested more than 20,000 people who may have been in the area, or were related to other people who have tested positive.

More than 100 or 119 people so far have tested positive just from this one incident, including one tutor. Now that particular tutor had not mentioned where they were working, and subsequently were tracked by GPS.

But before that time, they had infected eight other people including six middle and high school students. To shows just how difficult it is to try and trace this one.


This is Seoul's nightclub district. Doors are closed until further notice. Many patrons are being tested for coronavirus. Officials say they've tested more than 20,000 people so far after an infected 29- year-old visited five different clubs earlier this month.

Seoul Mayor park Won-soon is leading the effort to trace everyone who is in the area over a two-week period.


PARK WON-SOON, MAYOR, SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA: COVID-19 is battle of time. We should be finished within this week.

HANCOCKS: Park is using all technologies available to track a patient.

Mobile phone records, credit cards, CCTV, and the interview with the individual?

WON-SOON: Yes, right.


HANCOCKS: One issue was local media labeling some clubs affected as gay clubs. gay rights group said it was difficult for some patron to then come forward for fear of facing discrimination and homophobia in a conservative country.

Lee Changkol (Ph) tells me there's also the issue of the two-week self-quarantine even if they test negative. Patrons would need to tell their employer they were at this clubs and reveal their sexual orientation.

Mayor Park introduced anonymous testing Monday. He says the number voluntarily coming to be tested doubled. This incident shows that even countries deemed successful in handling the pandemic are just one patient away from another outbreak.


WON-SOON: We cannot be safe, even though we have zero case for a long time and anytime the outbreak can come to our society.


HANCOCKS: Park sees the outbreak as another lesson to stay alert.

Mayor Park told me he hopes to have traced everybody within this week, and certainly, a couple of days ago he said the next two to three days are critical.

So, this is around the time where he is hoping to have reached everybody in the area. But even those who have tested positive, a couple of them went to church services on a Sunday before realizing that they were infected. That congregation now has to be checked as well.

So, it just shows how time is of the essence when it comes to these outbreaks, even for a country as efficient as South Korea. It is very difficult to stop it quickly. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes. And a wakeup call to us all. Paula Hancocks bringing us that report from Seoul in South Korea. Many thanks.

Well, Russia is dealing with an alarming development. Johns Hopkins University reports the country now has the second highest number of coronavirus cases in the world after the United States.

President Vladimir Putin has put the difficult decision on when to reopen in the hands of local leaders. Russia has reported more than 10,000 new cases per day over the last 10 straight days, and now the virus has reached Mr. Putin's inner circle. The president's spokesman has tested positive for COVID-19.

CNN's Matthew Chance has our report.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: News that Putin's spokesman has coronavirus is gripping Russia, Dmitry Peskov may be only the latest official there to test positive, but he is the one closest to President Putin. It raises questions about the health of the Russian leader.

For years, Peskov has been the public mouthpiece of his strongman president. Putin rarely appears without him, at home or abroad. There is a strong chance the two could have been in close contact.

To allay fears, Peskov has insisted there has been no in person dealings between the two for over a month. The Kremlin says Putin has been working remotely from his residence outside Moscow, although he clearly takes some meetings face to face, like this one with the head of the Russian state oil company.

It's a risk in a country is reporting more than 10,000 new infections every day. No growing signs of the strain. But this hospital in St. Petersburg, at least five coronavirus patients were killed in a blaze on their ward, over the weekend, another died when a fire broke out in a Moscow hospital.

Emergency workers say both incidents were caused by faulty ventilators, bursting into flames. All this as the Kremlin moves to lift restrictions on a national lockdown. But the coronavirus in Russia shows little sign of easing.

CHURCH: Matthew Chance with that report. And CNN's Nathan Hodge, our Moscow bureau chief joins me now monitoring the story from London. Good to see you, Nathan.

So, President Putin appears to be struggling in his battle against the coronavirus pandemic. The numbers are disturbing, and now his top aide is infected. How bad is this?

NATHAN HODGE, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Rosemary, not only is he struggling to respond to this, his numbers are suffering, as well. Putin usually has sky high approval ratings.


And most recently, we have even seen polls from an independent pollster, Levada Center, saying that less than half of Russians who were surveyed said that they approved of the Russian government's response to the handling of this crisis.

Now it's important to point out how quickly things have really changed. Dmitry Peskov is one of the people who manages Putin's public image. And about two months ago, the Kremlin was really trying to project an aura of confidence, showing that the Russian leader was really in control and that Russia had gotten the handle on the coronavirus outbreak.

It was Putin himself was saying that things had been brought under control. Russia did move early to close, for instance, travel between Russia and China. It did enact some measures that allowed Putin to say that they believed they controlled the spread.

But that very quickly changed. The numbers have been rising, as it's been pointed out, over the past several days new cases have been hitting over 10,000 in each 24-hour period. And the Russian government is much more now on the back foot.

And while previously we are used to seeing Putin sort of project this aura of confidence. And we have seen over the years the Kremlin P.R. machine showing him as the man on horseback, confidently taking the world stage, projecting an almost macho image as a man of action.

Right now, he is taking what appears to be a much more sort of passive backseat, delegating a lot of the responsibility to regional leaders for the response to this crisis. And they are the ones who are going to be having that hard decision about when, for instance, to reopen up.

Putin did recently say earlier this week that Russians could look to a softening of some of the lockdown measures. But for instance, in Moscow, the capital, the mayor, Sergey Sobyanin, has said it won't be at least until the end of the month until a lot of these lockdown measures are eased.

Andin fact, they have stepped up some of the measures, saying that Muscovites have to go out with gloves and masks. So, certainly, the image is changing very quickly, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes. And it's interesting, as you talk about the situation that President Putin is facing right now, there are some similarities, aren't there, to what we are seeing here in the United States with President Trump really struggling to face this pandemic. But both men are showing that they are in charge, but the public not feeling the same way about it. Talk to us about those similarities.

HODGE: Yes, Rosemary. I mean, it's a striking similarity, especially when we see that much as the virus has arrived in the White House, it's now arrived in the Kremlin. In the case of Dmitry Peskov, who is a close confidant of Putin being hospitalized with the virus, and that really dense this image of invincibility that Putin has long tried to project.

And as well, there is a lot of questions about the economic impact of this. Putin has come under fire, for instance, for not tapping a national wealth fund. There are a lot of Russians who are asking about when they will be able -- whether they will be able to get any kind of economic support, especially if they run small and medium enterprises.

But certainly, in the case of Putin's spokesperson coming down, he is much closer to Putin, to the Russian president, than say, for instance, Trump's valet, or the spokesperson for Vice President Pence.

This really is at the heart of the Kremlin now. So certainly, I think there are going to be a lot of questions. And people are going to be watching closely even though we've received assurances from Peskov himself and from the Kremlin P.R. machine that there's been no contact. That Putin is not at risk, that his health remains robust. But certainly, people are going to be watching this very closely. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes, absolutely. Nathan Hodge monitoring the situation in Russia from his vantage point there in London. Many thanks.

Well, Dr. Anthony Fauci and President Donald Trump, far from a match made in heaven. The twists and turns of their working relationship when we return.

And the U.K. is easing more restrictions on people's movement around the country starting Wednesday. But is it too soon? We'll take a look at that.



ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back everyone. The coronavirus has made Dr. Anthony Fauci a household name, especially in the United States, where his leadership on the White House task force has often overshadowed Donald Trump's role. And with each passing week, it has become clear that Doctor and the president don't always see eye to eye on how best to manage this pandemic. CNN's Brian Todd has more.



BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He has been at the forefront of America's battles against the AIDS, SARS, and Zika outbreaks, as well as the Anthrax scare. Dr. Anthony Fauci who has been in his current job for 36 years has advised six presidents, but it is quite possible he's never contradicted any of them in public as much as he has Donald Trump. Like in early March, when the president discussed a timetable for a coronavirus vaccine. DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've heard very quick

numbers, a matter of months that I've heard pretty much a year would be an outside number.

FAUCI: We do make sure you get the president the information that a vaccine that you make and start testing in a year is not a vaccine that is deployable.

TODD: Fauci's compulsion for scientific truth telling has during this crisis often thrust him directly at odds with the president determined to portray his response to the pandemic as flawless.

TRUMP: Everything we did was right.

FAUCI: I mean, obviously, you can logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier you could have saved lives. Obviously, no one is going to deny that.

TRUMP: We have met the moment, and we have prevailed.

FAUCI: If you think that we have it completely under control, we don't.

TODD: Speaking about his discomfort with Trump's inaccuracy on the pandemic at the White House briefings, Fauci once said, I can't jump in front of the microphone and push him down. It's lead to strong rumors of tension between the two men. In mid-April, Trump retweeted a conservative's call for Fauci to be fired, then downplayed it.

TRUMP: I like him. Today, I walk in and I hear him going to fire him? I'm not firing -- I think he's a wonderful guy.

TODD: On Tuesday, it was Fauci downplaying any possible tension.

FAUCI: It was certainly not a confrontational relationship between me and the president. As I mentioned many times, I give advice and opinion based on evidence based scientific information. He hears that, he respects it, and he gets opinion from a variety of other people.

TODD: Fauci has been a lightning rod for right wing commentators who accuse him of impeding Trump's quest to get the economy rolling again. It's not the first time he's been the center of controversy during an epidemic. In the eighties, while Fauci was working on cures for AIDS at the National Institute of Health, protesters would often converge on his building, accusing the government of not doing enough.

One activist published an open letter saying, Anthony Fauci, you are a murderer. Fauci himself lamented that he couldn't save more lives, telling the New Yorker, it was the darkest time of my life. But he buckled down, met with protesters and pressed on. Now, those who have known him for decades are grateful that he has become the face of this fight.

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: It's hard to imagine what we would do without Tony Fauci, we have all come to rely on him for clear science based advice. He will tell us both the bad news and the good news and it's something that we can rely on.


TODD: Anthony Fauci will turn 80 years old on Christmas Eve this year. A few weeks ago, he said he was running on fumes. But on Tuesday, he assured senators that he was doing fine. One Stanford researchers who knows him told us that if anyone can extract the secrets to Fauci's longevity and effectiveness in these roles, they will hold one of the keys to the universe. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.


CHURCH: So, we just heard Dr. Fauci warning about health concerns in the Senate hearing. President Trump and many other politicians stressing the need to get the economy back up and running. Right now, futures are mostly pointing up on Wall Street. Stocks have gone back and forth this week as concerns continue to grow over when the economy will reopen.

And CNN's business emerging markets editor, John Defterios joins me now from Abu Dhabi. Always good to see, John. So, Dr. Fauci warns that opening up an economy too early will cost lives. So, how do you nations strike a balance between health and economics to determine when and how to reopen?

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, I would say it is almost like the art of a revival here, Rosemary, balancing the health of the people and recovery of the economy. The centrists out there are suggesting you can do both at the same time, but it does require planning. This is the same thing that Dr. Fauci was talking about, and a time to heal the economy.

Paul Krugman, who is the Nobel Laureate Economist, says there's three key things as he sees it. Very solid testing, tracing afterwards, and isolation when needed. And then after you have them in place, it takes two months to heal the economy. Let's take a listen to him.


PAUL KRUGMAN, NEW YORK TIMES OPINION COLUMNIST: We can do this. You know, this is not an impossible task. And the alternative is far worst. The alternative is that the only way you turn this into a depression, of years of depress economic activity is precisely by failing to take the necessary action now.


DEFTERIOS: Professor Krugman has been very critical of the Trump administration for waiting six days -- weeks at the front of the process. And it seems the latest polls in the United States have people are worried as well. But in 50 percent, things that we are going to have a major snapback of virus. And as a result, the savings rate is the highest in 40 years. Credit card debt has dropped by a 3rd already in the response to this. Now, Gary Cohn is the former head of the national economic council,

under the Trump administration. Again, more centrist than the president himself, especially when it came to U.S./China trade. He is saying though that the lockdown is too extreme. And there's spillover into the health care sector that we have to think beyond covid-19 and the impact on the lockdown, on the entire society. Let's listen to him.


GARY COHN, FORMER DIRECTOR WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Telling people to stay home 24 hours a day, seven days a week and only leave your house to go out and purchase groceries or other necessities has other health care implications.

There are a lot of things that people need in the general economy, whether it be other health care, other medical needs that are not getting taken care of. So, we are seeing huge instances now of other diseases and other bad health care outcomes starting to spring up in the economy, in the society.


DEFTERIOS: And that is psychologically impacting us as well, Rosemary. Because we have 33 million Americans who have filed for jobless benefits. That's very heavy to see how they are going to get rehired. And then the cost of health care in the overall system, $3.6 trillion spent last year before the coronavirus, nearly 20 percent of GDP.

And we know that the long term debt in the country is probably going to hit 120 percent, a very high level for the country that will have to be paid back eventually after the virus goes away. But certainly, not in an election year.

CHURCH: Yes. Of course, if we had extensive testing, it wouldn't be such a dilemma. Hopefully, we can get that organized in this country at least. So, what about the cost of opening up in the United Kingdom? What are you learning about that?

DEFTERIOS: You know, there is a common theme here between the United States and the U.K. because they were both very lax, if you, will waking up to the threat of the virus from China as it spread through the Middle East where I am and then going on through Europe, especially Italy. The more time you take, the more expensive it is. That's the reality.

There is a leaked report coming out of the Times of London from Downing Street saying it will be an extra $370 billion of the budget. That's a lot for an economy of that size. And they say they are after higher taxes, adjustments to pensions, and a freeze for government workers for at least two years. And we know that economic impact in the first quarter was negative 2 percent. But that only tells part of the story.

In, March the monthly figure was a negative 5.8 percent, and that is the worst since 1997. It is painful, if you do not get ahead of the curve. That's the message from the U.S. and the U.K.


CHURCH: Yes. Wow. They are tough numbers. John Defterios, many thanks to you. We appreciate it.

Well, the debate over when business can reopen is heating up between California and Tesla. A day after CEO, Elon Musk, defied the states shelter in place rules and reopened his only electric car plant in the United States, local officials ordered the carmaker to cease all non- essential activities until they agree on a plan to reopen safely. Musk has slammed the states virus restrictions and threatened to move the company out of California. The governor of Texas says he has spoken with Musk about relocating tesla to his state.

Well, now to the U.K., where Prime Minister Boris Johnson's plan to gradually reopen the country is underway. He has called on his citizens to return to work if they can't do it from home. And starting Wednesday, Mr. Johnson says people in the U.K. will be able to sunbathe in their local parks, exercise outdoors as much as they want, and drive to other destinations. But he warrants social distancing must be maintained.

The U.K. is one of the world's hardest hit nations during this pandemic. More than 32,000 people have died there. CNN's Nina Dos Santos is with me now from London. Good to see your, Nina. So after Prime Minister Boris Johnson initially issued a rather muddled message Monday. A Britain's a little clearer about what they can and can' do as the country slowly emerges from their lockdowns?

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not really, Rosemary, for a couple of reason. One, because some of these suggestions that are being made in this 50 page long document, to sort of gradually ease this lockdowns measures, could be viewed as quite impractical for some people, depending on their circumstances.

And then there is the obvious thing. That Boris Johnson does not actually have jurisdiction over public health for all four corners of the United Kingdom. This country that has devolved government since Scotland, Wales, and also Northern Ireland. And those three regions have all said, the message hasn't changed for them.

Essentially, it's not safe enough at the moment to ease the lockdown measures, and they are recommending that people stay at home. What this has done is created confusion for people who work on both sides of the border between Wales and the U.K., more England, of the parts of the U.K. created confusion for people who say live and work on one on the other side of the border of Scotland as well.

And so, essentially there are some people in these circumstances are crying out for clear messaging on this. There's also people saying that they find it quite perplex is to why say, real-estate brokers are allowed to open up. You can go into somebody else's home and view a property if you want to rent or buy it, but you can't go and visit your parents say. You can meet one person in a park, but you can't meet two people at a park, even if you maintain social distancing. So, for all of these reasons, people are confused. What we do know

though, is that this is a race to get the economy back working again, as you just described there with John Defterios, the economy we now know has shrunk quite significantly with those GDP figures coming out early this morning on my time. On a quarterly basis, there were slightly better than some analysts were expecting.

But that doesn't change the fact that things could get even sharper when the next quarter comes out in a few months' time. We already know that consumer spending has started to slip. And there are some businesses that still won't reopen until the summer.

One last thing that people are also worried about is whether or not their companies are going to ask them to go back to work if they haven't yet been able to secure childcare, because schools are also not likely to reopen until probably June, maybe even until the full term.

So, big question marks about how people get back to work to save their livelihoods, while still saving lives in a country that as you pointed out still has to contend with 627 more deaths yesterday, bringing the total death toll to more than 32,000, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Just horrible numbers. Nina Dos Santos, joining us there live from London, many thanks.

All right. Well, just a little while ago, Germany reported a decline in new infections. Less than 800 within 24 hours after several outbreaks earlier this week. That's a small sign of progress as the country begins lifting its lockdown. Many industries there are struggling, and that includes its nightlife. Clubs waiting to reopen have had to find unique ways to stay afloat. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen explains.



FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There, honking to the beat, instead of stomping their feet at Germany's first drive-in disco. Socially distance partying with DJs and a massive light shows, all on the parking lot of the country's biggest night club, Index. We wanted to let our hair down and have fun despite coronavirus, it's awesome here, this woman says.

To comply with health guidelines, only two people are allowed in each vehicle. Nightclubs and discos have been shut since the middle of March in Germany. The Index's owner says the car rave is popular, but he is still not making a profit.

You can't really profit from something like this, he says, but we expect that at some point the contact restrictions will be eased, and then, more than two people can sit in a car. And of course, it will start to become financially interesting, because at some point, perhaps drinks can be served. Most clubs are faring much worse. At the Sues War Gestern Club, a

staple of Berlin's blossoming pre-corona parties seen, all they could do is make sure their music and lighting gear still work. Shut down for almost two months, they started a crowd funding campaign to stay alive.

PONY SCHWEDLER, SUESS WAR GESTERN NIGHT CLUB: It has been very, very tough. But we are trying to, yes, stay optimistic, which isn't easy it all. But we are trying our best and we can only hope that this is going to and in a more or less acceptable way.

PLEITGEN: At least some cultural institutions, however, are coming back to life like Berlin's natural history museums, however, only 600 people can come per day due to physical distancing rules, the managing director says.

We are sold out for the first days, he says. Of course, 600 tickets per day is not a lot. It's about a quarter of what we usually have. But we are still happy that people are coming back.

All guests have to wear masks while walking through the exhibits. Asking guests to wear masks is only part of a larger hygiene concept that the museum has put in place. As you can see, there's arrows on the floor here to make sure that guests walk in a certain direction just to make it easier for folks to keep distance from one another. And at some exhibits like this one, you can see that it's taped off to make sure people don't touch it.

Strict hygiene rules are required to allow this and other museums to open up again during the pandemic. While other cultural institutions like most nightclubs will hope they too will soon be able to get back to their business before it is too late. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.


CHURCH: With a red, white, and blue mask and no handshaking, the U.S. Secretary of State makes a trip out of the country. Why he is in Israel. We will have a live report.


CHURCH: Well, the Afghan president has ordered security forces to resume their offensive against the Taliban after two attacks killed at least 35 people. President Ashraf Ghani accuse the Taliban and other insurgent groups of targeting a hospital and a funeral on Tuesday. The hospital strike killed several infants, mothers, and nurses at a maternity ward. The Taliban has denied involvement.


The U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo condemned the attacks and is urging both sides to continue peace talks. And Pompeo arrived in Israel just a short time ago. He was wearing a mask, the only way to do diplomacy during a pandemic.

But he was not wearing one when he left the United States. Moments ago, Pompeo spoke alongside the Israeli Prime Minister in Jerusalem. And he will meet with Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition partner, Benny Gantz, later. Now, this comes as Mr. Netanyahu eyes a U.S.-backed plan to annex part of the west bank.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is live from Jerusalem and Oren, many are questioning the timing of this. Why would the U.S. Secretary of State take a trip to Israel right now, in the middle of a pandemic? How is this not in breach of all the lockdown rules in Israel?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORESPONDENT: Well, the lockdown rules now are those entering the country have to enter a mandatory 14-day quarantine period, either at a quarantine hotel, or if you can show you enter self-quarantine at home, you are allowed to that too. Of course, the Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo isn't going to do that. He is not here for 14 days, let alone 14 hours. This is a very quick trip where he is going to meet Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Netanyahu's coalition partner, Benny Gantz.

We already saw the meeting or at least the public statements between Pompeo and Netanyahu. We weren't expecting any major announcements from this meeting. And that is pretty much what we got. Netanyahu and Pompeo said they would talk about coronavirus, they said they would talk about Iran, and it was really Netanyahu who referenced the Trump administration's push for Middle East peace.

Saying, he thought the national unity government was a chance to push forward peace and security on the basis of the administration peace plan put forward earlier this year in January when Netanyahu was at the White House. And that was pretty much it. No big statements there.

As for how the meeting was taking place in terms of coronavirus, well, Pompeo's team said that everybody on the team that was traveling here would be tested for covid-19 in the days before the test. The secretary's doctor would be traveling with him and anybody who came into close contact with the secretary would have to be screened for any symptoms.

So, they are taking precautions here, and again, as you saw when Pompeo walked off the airplane, he was wearing a red, white, and blue mask as he strode out of the Tel Aviv international airport.

CHURCH: Yes, he was. Oren Liebermann, many thanks. Bringing us live report from Jerusalem. We appreciate it.

Well, Covid-19 has canceled graduations across the globe. But celebrities have come together to give the class of 2020 a special day. Back with that.


CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. For millions of graduating students who won't have typical commencement ceremonies this year due to the pandemic, of course, but thanks to the world of technology. Some celebrities are trying to make this year's special by offering words of encouragement to 2020 seniors virtually. Here is our Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lucky, me I will always have my blurry old graduation photos, oblivious to social distancing, tickling a fellow grad with a tassel. But, now what a hassle.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Class of 2020, what is up?

MOOS: A pandemic is what's up. Instead of caps tossed and celebration on stage, flesh on blood grads are being replaced --


MOOS: -- by pictures. You barely have to get dressed for commencement address.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm at home, you're at home.

MOOS: Pharrell Williams once sang happy, but now graduates have to be happy with a video commencement. The most famous celebrity to suffer from the virus told grads at Ohio's right state.

TOM HANKS, ACTOR: You started in the olden times, in the world back before the great pandemic of 2020. You have finish (inaudible) during the great reset.

MOOS: And America's doctor during the great reset told Jesuit High School grads that now is the time to --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To care selflessly about one another. Please hang in there.

MOOS: Stephen Colbert hung out on a couch, delivering his message to grads at Northwestern University in Qatar.

STEPHEN COLBERT, LATE NIGHT HOST: I am living by my family's motto which is never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lie down.

MOOS: Instead of a gown, Ellen settled for a bathrobe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need smart people, actually, you don't even had to be that smart. Just don't tell people to drink bleach.

MOOS: Invincibility juice, Alec Baldwin called it in his SNL commencement address.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am so honored to be your valedictorian, but today is not about me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even without this pandemic, nobody reaches their dreams.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most people just end up doing the job they don't hate until they retire. MOOS: But leave it to Oprah, appearing on John (inaudible) some good

news to find the literals silver lining on a dark cloud.

WINFREY OPRAH, ACTRESS: When it's really dark and dreary on the ground and then you get in the plane and within three minutes, you shoot above the clouds and you see the sun was always there.

MOOS: Now, if only we could get up the nerve to fly again. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


CHURCH: Some great messages there. And thanks so much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. I'll be back with more news in just a moment. Do stay with us.