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Trump Attacks Obama As Grossly Incompetent In Escalating Feud; White House Trade Adviser Blames CDC On Testing Shortage; Trump Administration Makes More Moves In Its Watchdog Offices; Texas Reports Its Highest One-Day Spike In Coronavirus Cases; Governor Andrew Cuomo Tested For Coronavirus During Live Briefing; How Coronavirus Hits The Whole Body. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 17, 2020 - 16:00   ET






FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: All right, thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The NEWSROOM continues with Ana Cabrera right after this.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, on this Sunday. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you for joining us. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And at this hour, the U.S. death toll from the coronavirus is nearing 90,000. More than 36 million Americans are out of work, and there is an urgent race for a vaccine. But in this time of crisis when we should all be coming together, what are we seeing instead? An extraordinary feud between President Trump and his predecessor, Barack Obama.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, he was an incompetent president. That's all I can say. Grossly incompetent. Thank you.


CABRERA: The president's comments come a day after Obama sharply criticized how the Trump administration has handled the pandemic.


BARACK OBAMA, 44TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: More than anything, this pandemic has fully finally torn back the curtain on the idea that so many of the folks in charge know what they're doing. A lot of them aren't even pretending to be in charge.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: Let's get right to CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House.

Jeremy, we've got a rising death toll and historic unemployment, and what we are seeing is now the president reverting to an old strategy of attacking Obama.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: He certainly is. And what we have seen from President Trump in this last week, as we have heard those criticisms from the former President Barack Obama, is that we've seen President Trump attempt to, you know, lay all of these claims about the former president, including conspiracy theories, suggesting that President Obama was leading a conspiracy to undermine his presidency, essentially, from the start.

President Trump also, you saw him today, responding to that latest criticism from President Obama, not on the substance, but simply firing back and saying that President Obama was grossly incompetent as president.

What we do know is that President Trump, of course, has been unwilling to look at any potential failures within his own administration as far as the response to the coronavirus. But we are, this morning, Ana, hearing from one of the president's top advisers, Peter Navarro, who is casting some blame inside the Trump administration. Certainly not inside the White House, but looking at the CDC. Listen.


PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE TRADE ADVISER: Early on in this crisis, the CDC, which really had the most trusted brand around the world in this space, really let the country down with the testing because not only did they keep the testing within the bureaucracy, they had a bad test. And that did set us back.


DIAMOND: We do know, of course, Ana, that there had been significant issues with the CDC's attempts to develop a coronavirus test early in this response, which delayed the response to coronavirus for several weeks. Dr. Anthony Fauci has called it a failure. This morning, Secretary Alex Azar, the secretary of Health and Human Services, he acknowledged that there had been an issue with testing at CDC, but he insisted that CDC was not to blame for this administration's response to coronavirus.

So certainly Peter Navarro there expressing a view that is perhaps not uniformly held within this administration.

CABRERA: Meantime, we're also seeing the president this weekend continuing to shake up the entities that are responsible for oversight of his administration. Just yesterday, we were reporting on the president firing the State Department inspector general, as he was reportedly in the middle of an investigation of Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. And now we're just learning of another staff change over at the Department of Transportation? DIAMOND: That's right. And what this appears to be, Ana, is more

efforts by the White House to exert control over who these inspectors general are and who these officials are really who are going to hold these different agencies accountable. This time, though, the move is not to fire someone, it's not to remove someone from a position, but it is to replace who is there as the acting inspector general.

The Department of Transportation's Senate-confirmed inspector general resigned from that position back in January. That individual's deputy had been in there as the acting inspector general over the last several months, but now the White House actually moved to put in place a new acting inspector general at the Department of Transportation, as it also named -- nominated a new permanent replacement for that position.

But this is, again, as you said, Ana, the fifth move to either replace or fire an inspector general in just the last six weeks. So certainly, again, the White House here trying to exert some more control over those inspectors general, a critical position, of course -- Ana.

CABRERA: Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thank you.

The coronavirus pandemic is far from over, as most states across the nation forge ahead with phased reopenings. By midnight tonight, 48 states will have eased at least some restrictions. This comes as eleven states see a rising number of confirmed cases.


The state of Texas on Saturday reporting its highest one-day spike since the pandemic began, with more than 1800 new cases. Still, Texas Governor Greg Abbott is allowing more businesses to reopen tomorrow, including some gyms and offices.

Let's get right out to CNN's Ed Lavandera in Dallas.

And Ed, how are people there in Texas reacting to this latest surge in cases?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, it's a beautiful day here in Dallas and throughout much of the state after a long, rainy day yesterday, and quarantine fatigue has set in. A lot of places you go, you see many more people out and about than we have seen in recent weeks. And this comes as the state continues to reopen, another record-setting day in the number of new cases. More than 1800 reported by the state of Texas yesterday.

State health officials attribute the large spike in the numbers yesterday to focused testing in the Texas panhandle area around Amarillo, Texas. And because of meat packing plants there, more than 730 cases coming from that specific testing with workers at meat packing plants. And that's what state health officials attribute the large spike in cases.

This also comes as the overall number of tests have gone up dramatically. In three of the last four days, we've seen more than 30,000 tests each day. Those are some of the highest numbers we've seen. Texas is still far behind per capita in terms of how many people are testing across the country. But, that is the most we've seen here in this state so far.

But because of these numbers, there are still many big city leaders here who are urging caution and still urging people to socially distance themselves and to take a closer look at these numbers and to take them seriously. This is the mayor of Austin.


MAYOR STEVE ADLER (D), AUSTIN, TEXAS: It makes me take pause. It makes everyone I know take pause. I think because everyone is watching this to see what this grand experiment is going to result in. But we know for an absolute certainty that as you increase physical interactions between people, you are going to increase the number of new cases. It just happens. That's why everybody is staying at home shut this thing down.

The question is, are those new cases going to come at such a rate and such a pace that we're put on a path to overload our hospitals? That's what we can't let happen. And that's why we have to watch these numbers daily.


LAVANDERA: And Ana, with these latest numbers, the governor of Texas has continued to maintain that his plan to reopen the Texas economy is a great plan that continues tomorrow, as exercise and workout facilities will be allowed to reopen, as well -- Ana.

CABRERA: Ed Lavandera in Dallas, thank you.

Now to New York where effective and efficient testing was the focus of Governor Andrew Cuomo's press briefing this morning. The governor said the state of New York is conducting about 40,000 tests a day and is testing more per capita than some countries. And in an attempt to show fellow New Yorkers just how easy it is, the governor got tested for coronavirus live on the spot. We don't know the results of that test just yet.

Let's get out to CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro live in New York.

Evan, we've heard from health experts that testing is key to reopening communities. Is New York still on the right track to begin to reopen?

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, ana, it's certainly good for people in New York that testing is available and rising. In some areas of the state, some less-populous areas have seen some reopening. But in New York City, where I'm standing, the lockdown remains. The same one that's been going on for the past two months.

There's been some clamoring for beaches and things to open. Summer's here, people want to get out and start doing things, but the mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio said in a press conference this morning, that's not happening yet. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: I've side before and I'm going to say again, we are not opening our beaches on Memorial Day. We are not opening our beaches in the near-term. It is not safe. It is not the right thing to do in the epicenter of this crisis.


MCMORRIS-SANTORO: The mayor and the governor are still talking about New York City as a place where social distancing is incredibly important and it's very carefully and closely watched.

Where I am right now is in Domino Park in Brooklyn, which is a very popular park in a populous area. And it's only five acres in size. So, there are reports early on that people were coming here, because they're supposed to get out of their house and it was just so dense and it was getting overwhelmed, so there's a solution put into place today or last week, rather, that we're seeing in place today, which is that the authorities came, painted circles on the ground, six feet apart. You sit in the circle and you're six feet from the other people in the circle six feet away from you.


There's also a huge police presence enforcing the social distancing. So even though we see those testing numbers and we see some conversations about reopening, New York City is still a place where social distancing is being enforced and people are being told to try to stay at home as much as they think -- Ana.

CABRERA: All right. It's interesting to see those circles in the grass. I guess everything that we can do to try to stay safe.

Thank you, Evan.

Coming up, mysterious symptoms. Doctors baffled by other unusual illnesses that may be connected to the coronavirus. Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks into that, next.


CABRERA: In the months since the coronavirus came into our lives, one thing has remained constant. We don't know everything about it. Doctors are still baffled by some of the symptoms they are seeing in patients, symptoms that attack the entire body, and have proven fatal, including in children.

Here's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.



DR. MATTHEW BAI, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, MOUNT SINAI QUEENS: Now, I'm ready to go out into the E.R. I don't know quite what to expect yet. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Don't

know what to expect, in so many ways. The coronavirus has challenged E.R. doctors like Matt Bai since it hit, baffling doctors with its mysterious symptoms. Coronavirus is a respiratory virus. It can spread through droplets with each cough or each breath.

DR. MANISHA JUTHANI, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AND EPIDEMIOLOGY, YALE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: You have a droplet that then goes into your nose, maybe down to your throat, and eventually down into your lungs.

GUPTA: But some people have critically low oxygen levels and yet still appear like you and me.

DR. RICHARD LEVITAN, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: It's almost unimaginable how people could be awake and alert and have oxygen levels that are half- normal.

GUPTA: And it gets even more confusing. A respiratory virus doesn't typically cause isolated loss of smell or bumps and lesions on the feet. From nose to toes and nearly every organ in between, how does a microscopic strand of RNA wreak so much and such varied destruction?

BAI: So when they come in they can be to the extreme where they have no pulse already or they're coming in breathing really fast and hypoxic with a very low oxygen level, and cold and blue.

GUPTA: It could have to do with the way the virus typically enters our cells in the first place. You're looking at the ACE-2 receptor. Now, see how the spikes on the coronavirus bind to the surface of the cell.

JUTHANI: This particular receptor is known to be in lung tissue but it's also known to be in the heart and other parts of the body. It seems that this ACE-2 receptor is expressed more potentially with age.

GUPTA: Higher levels of ACE-2 are often present in men, which could also explain why they are most likely to be affected more severely. Patients like 33-year-old Warren Alvega (PH) who had a life- threatening blood clot in his lungs.

WARREN ALVEGA, CORONAVIRUS PATIENT: The next thing I know, I was on the floor.

GUPTA: Then there's the mystery of what it's doing to some children. At least three dead now in New York from an illness with symptoms similar to Kawasaki disease, a condition where the blood vessels become inflamed.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: We have about 100 cases of an inflammatory disease in young children that seems to be created by the COVID virus.

JUTHANI: The children that are having these signs of inflammatory conditions, they already had the infection over two weeks ago. So this is not like another virus that I've seen.

GUPTA: This tiny little virus, which cannot even be killed because truth is, it's not even alive.


CABRERA: Our thanks to Sanjay for that report.

Let's turn to our experts now, Dr. James Phillips, a CNN medical analyst and physician at George Washington University Hospital joins us, as well as Anne Rimoin, a professor in the Department of Epidemiology at UCLA.

So, Dr. Phillips, can you think of another virus that has been linked to this many different symptoms?

DR. JAMES PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Not in particular. You know, we know with SARS and with MERS, sort of the cousins of this particular coronavirus, that about one third of patients had some chronic medical problems stemming from it. Particularly lung scarring.

There were some other minor systemic effects, but this virus is very peculiar in its ability to affect multiple different organ systems, and the big question are what are going to be the long-term sequelae of this disease? Whether -- I mean, we can see easily right now what the short-term effects are, from mild symptoms to, you know, intense critical care requiring illness to death. But in the coming months and even over the next year, we're going to really see what this does to the human body on a long-term basis.

CABRERA: And that's a really scary thought when you think about the impact on other organs in the body and the CDC director said the U.S. can see 100,000 deaths by June 1st. As you see 48 states now relaxing restrictions, what's your biggest fear?

ANNE RIMOIN, PROFESSOR, DEPARTMENT OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, UCLA: My biggest fear is that we're going to see the resurgence that Dr. Fauci suggested in his testimony in front of Congress.

I think that, you know, we worry that we will start seeing people mixing. We do not have good restrictions or good guidelines in place for people, how to reopen. It's going to become very confusing for people. We're going to see more and more cases and then we're going to see the exact same thing that we saw in March, which was spikes in cases, clusters that will expand, our health systems potentially becoming overwhelmed again.

So, you know, the risk of the virus has not been reduced. The risk to humanity has not been reduced. The risk of contracting the virus has not been reduced. So we're still in the same place. And so my biggest fear is, of course, we're going to be seeing more cases and having the psychological impact that Dr. Fauci also suggested of going back into major lockdowns.


CABRERA: On the other hand, Dr. Phillips, there's a new study that was just published, confirming that social distancing works. In fact, it says social distancing measures actually cut the daily growth of this virus in the U.S. by 9 percent after two to three weeks. And the researchers estimate that without social distancing, the cases in the U.S. could have been 35 times higher.

Given this information, concrete evidence that social distancing works, do you think that reopening, as long as people continue to do the social distancing, could be successful?

PHILLIPS: So, it's good to see data that confirms what we as doctors and scientists have known for decades. That nonpharmaceutical interventions, meaning hand hygiene, cough hygiene, and social distancing actually does reduce viral transmission. So this isn't a surprise to those of us who have been providing this advice to the general public.

What we can hope is that by seeing scientific papers that show this, that the public will continue to pay attention and perhaps some of those who are disregarding those important instructions will change their minds.

You know, it -- reopening is important. It's taking dramatic tolls on not only the economy, but also the psychological well-being of our populous. And it's important that we start to reopen. There will have to be some bit of experimentation, as different communities try to reopen. But the important thing is that people do it with good evidence-based medical guidance.

And whether or not that's going to come from the White House Task Force, the CDC, or just physicians and private entities providing that sort of consultation to businesses remains to be seen, but hopefully people will pay attention to the science and the evidence.

CABRERA: You know, let me just follow up on that point, Dr. Phillips. Because you talk about reopening happening in different ways, in different jurisdictions. Just take a listen to HHS Secretary Alex Azar today.


ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: There should not be one-size-fits-all approaches to reopening, but reopen we must because it's not health versus the economy. It's actually health versus health.


CABRERA: I want to take a look at what's happening in states that reopened earlier on. In Texas right now, as Ed Lavandera reported, new cases are surging, while we're seeing in Georgia and Florida, there's more of a downward trend.

Dr. Phillips, do you think that's due to how they report numbers or something else?

PHILLIPS: There's a lot of variables there. Whether those results are secondary to the way people behave, the amount of personal responsibility they're taking in continuing to socially distance and isolate the vulnerable members of the population, or if there is some skewing of the numbers. You know, we have seen that states like Virginia and Arizona have -- I won't say manipulated, but they've padded the number of tests that they do by including serological data in order to drive down the percentage of positive cases.

So if we can exclude that stuff, my hope is, is that people are taking that personal responsibility and as we reopen, they're maintaining their distance and preventing going in public if they're having symptoms of illness.

We're going to see different cities and different communities have different results as we go forward. But there's so many variables, it's difficult to pin one down.

CABRERA: Anne, I want to ask you about the role of the CDC in all of this. We've heard from other health experts that the CDC typically leads the nation and even the world in some cases with guidance and with information and yet they've had a less-prominent role in communicating with the public throughout this pandemic.

Do you think the CDC's role has been diminished during this pandemic?

RIMOIN: Absolutely. The CDC has been a leader in epidemic response, you know, for a very long time, since its inception. And the CDC has an incredible history of taking the lead, not only in the United States, but on a global stage.

You know, we've seen in the last several Ebola outbreaks in DRC, the CDC taking a backseat. And this has really been an unfortunate situation. There is an incredible amount of expertise, an incredible amount of knowledge, real, practical, on-the-ground experience, and we are not benefiting from that experience here in the United States or globally right now.

The CDC should be front and center. This is what they do. This is what they're really good at. And I think it has been a major disservice to the United States and to the United States population not to have the CDC leading the charge.

CABRERA: Anne Rimoin and Dr. James Phillips, I really appreciate both of you. Thank you for being here.

RIMOIN: My pleasure.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

CABRERA: Policing during a pandemic. How tensions over masks and social distancing are leading to violent confrontations around the country, next.



CABRERA: Across the country, masked mandates and social distancing guidelines have created unique challenges for police when it comes to enforcement. And at times, we've seen tense, even violent confrontations, including this one in New York this week.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's what I'm talking about. Because I 'have no (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's unnecessary.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on. She got a kid with him. She got a baby.



CABRERA: A bystander capture video of the arrest. It took place at a Brooklyn subway station when officer say they asked a mother who is with a young child to wear a face mask, as required. She had a mask around her neck but just wasn't over her nose and mouth. In the ensuing confrontation, police say she hit one of the officers and was then wrestled to the ground and arrested.

Joining us now is the former Boston Police Commissioner, Ed Davis, as well as the former president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, Cedric Alexander. Commissioner Davis, what are your thoughts on seeing how that arrest went down?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Hi, Ana. It's always troubling to see use of force no matter how slight it is and this one was fairly intense. So, it's a tough thing to watch. But I know that those police officers were told to enforce this rule. I'm sure they'd be very happy if they didn't have that responsibility, but it is their responsibility.

And I also know that a small percentage of the population in your day- to-day interactions as a police officer will resist or challenge your authority. Sometimes, it's due to their reading of the constitution. Sometimes, it's due to alcohol or mental health issues. But the problem is that the acts of the police officer have to resort to are always predicated upon the actions of the individual and I think that's what you're seeing here.

CABRERA: Cedric, in response to that video, the mayor of New York announced a reset to the city's pandemic enforcement and says now as long as there's no serious danger to the public, the NYPD will not take enforcement action for people failing to wear a face covering. Is that the right call?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, FMR. PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Absolutely. And actually that should have been the call right from the beginning, Ana. You know, in a situation like this where you have a city, like many cities across America, in particular New York, you're asking police to go out and do a very difficult task and you're putting them in a very difficult position. And I truly don't believe that the mayor or any leadership should have asked them to go out and affect arrests, if they did or even allude to it in any type of way.

This is a community police response in which, if anything, the police just should ask people to cooperate. We're here to help you save your life and save your family's life. But you want to avoid confrontation because there is no way we're going to arrest ourselves out of this pandemic.

CABRERA: Well, we also know that in New York, African-Americans and Latinos have been disproportionately ticketed for social distancing violations. You know, what kind of training should officers be getting to correct that?

ALEXANDER: Well, I think one of the things that are clearly important, they have the training. They have been doing a lot of training over the last several years as NYPD, I'm quite sure, and other departments across the country.

But this is very unprecedented, of course, as we all know what we're dealing with right now. So, I think it becomes incumbent upon the leadership in that city or any city in America to be able to say to the police officers, go out, ask people to cooperate with us, to help them -- help us help them, talk to your community leaders to help you be a part of that strategy.

But then to go out and put hands on people because they don't social distance and wear a mask, because here's what's simply going to happen, Ana. I asked someone to social distance. Yes, OK, whatever, and they blow me off, and they may social distance. But soon, by the time the officer gets around the corner, they're back talking again. It becomes a personal responsibility.

And I think it becomes incumbent -- keep our police officers away from that kind of thing and allow them to go out and be good ambassadors for us. And if you need to, give them masks to pass out to people who may not have masks. Let's take this as an opportunity to build relationships. Because here again, we're not going to arrests ourselves out of this pandemic. What's going to have to happen is going to take a complete community cooperation. So, I'm glad to see the mayor go in another direction.

CABRERA: Commissioner Davis, we're also hearing stories of people being stopped while doing the right thing by wearing a mask. Take for instance what happened in Illinois. State rep says he was wearing a mask. He was wearing gloves while shopping when an officer came up to him and asked to see his receipt and I.D. Take a listen.


KAM BUCKNER, ILLINOIS STATE HOUSE: He asked me some questions and then eventually asked to see my receipt. He said, you know, people are using the COVID virus to do a lot of bad things and to get away with them. You've got a mask on, man. I can't see your face. It looks like you may be up to something.


CABRERA: Commissioner, what's your reaction to that?

DAVIS: I think that's rather ridiculous, actually. There's not reports of large-scale numbers of people who are committing robberies or larcenies who are masked.


I think that there's a system in place to deal with that kind of behavior that occurs in police departments. And it really needs to be -- to kick in when you see this kind of issue. This is all new to everybody. It's a tough thing to deal with. But a police officer that does something like that shouldn't get a pass. They should be held accountable for it.

CABRERA: All right gentlemen, thank you both, really great to have you, Cedric Alexander, Commissioner Ed Davis.

ALEXANDER: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: We'll be right back.

DAVIS: Thank you, Ana.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.



CABRERA: Welcome back. One of the highest coronavirus infection rates in America is in the Navajo Nation, spanning New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah. Earlier this month, the tribe received desperately-needed federal relief funds, but the economic devastation continues as all businesses are closed for a weekend lockdown.

And CNN's Sara Sidner is joining us now from the capital of the Navajo Nation, Window Rock, Arizona. Sara, what's the latest on the crisis in Navajo Nation?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, this weekend, there is the strictest lockdown that they've had. It's a lockdown of 57 hours. No stores open, not even gas stations or grocery stores. They are really trying to deal with what has been a spike in cases. Even over the weekend, they had more than a dozen more people who died of COVID-19, more infections.

But they make clear, they understand that they have one of the highest infection rates per capita in the country, but that is partly, Ana, due to the fact that they have been testing more than anywhere else in America. They've tested about 11% of their population. So, they're being very aggressive with testing. They also are being very aggressive with stay-at-home measures.

This -- I'm wearing a mask here, because if you're out in public, even if you're not around a ton of people, you're required to wear a mask in this nation, and also in the state of New Mexico. We talked also to the president of the Navajo Nation, Johnathan Nez. And he said, at one point, he made an all-call for help. Who showed up? The University of California and Doctors Without Borders.


JOHNATHAN NEZ, PRESIDENT, NAVAJO NATION: And so, since we got hit hard here on the Navajo Nation, we did a callout to doctors and nurses. We don't have the best health care system here in the Navajo Nation. And I think we're finding it out we don't have the best health care throughout the country because of this pandemic, but more so here in tribal communities.


SIDNER: Now, with an area of 27,000 square miles, people are spread out across three states; Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. You would think that it would be able -- easy to self-distance, to isolate, and a lot of people are very isolated. It takes them two or three hours to get, for example, to a grocery store or even a hospital.

But what has happened here is 30% to 40% of the population does not have running water and many families live in generational housing. So, they have several generations in one home. So, if someone does get the virus, as someone that we met, they also spread it to their family members because there is nowhere to isolate.

And so, that is one of the reasons why this virus has spread so vigorously across this nation. They are trying to get it under control with very strict measures. And for the most part, their citizens are complying. Ana?

CABRERA: Wow, that is really interesting. Sara Sidner, thank you for providing that insight into the community in the Navajo Nation. Thank you.

Coming up, hitting the long drive for coronavirus relief. Golf legend, Greg Norman, aka, the "shark", joins us live to talk about his "All In Challenge" after the break.



CABRERA: All right. It's time for our check-in on the "All In Challenge". We've talked to Kevin Hart, DJ Khaled, Meek Mill, and Robert Kraft about their fabulous prizes auctioning off as part of this big charity auction raising millions for coronavirus relief.

And this week, we have a new special guest, golf legend, Greg Norman, who joins us now along with Michael Rubin, the creator of this "All In Challenge" and a partner for the "Philadelphia 76ers".

So first, I just love this. Thank you both for what you're doing. Greg, tell us about your challenge and what inspired you to get involved. GREG NORMAN, HALL OF FAME GOLFER: Well, first of all, what inspired me was the people suffering through this COVID-19, Ana, and thank you for having me on. And Michael, how are you doing?

Second of all, it's people like Michael Rubin. I've traveled the world to every corner of the globe and I've never seen a country as philanthropic as what the United States is and any time we have a chance of giving back, you know, we're all fortunate to a lot of degree, and we're healthy, and we're successful.

And for mine was simple, let's just go play golf and introduce and have people come and join me at the Medalist Golf Club, my old (INAUDIBLE), to play a round of golf with me. We'll shoot the gift of the gab. We'll give lessons on the golf course.

And then, we're going to have lunch at my favorite little restaurant after a round of golf. So, it's really an easy giveback for me and I've just congratulate Michael on kicking this thing off and getting close to $43 million, I think, Michael right now.

CABRERA: Well, in fact, let's get the update, Michael, because this is becoming our Sunday tradition here at CNN. What are the latest fund- raising numbers and how do you not hit a ceiling?

MICHAEL RUBIN, CREATOR OF "ALL IN CHALLENGE": Yes. So, we're up to $44 million already. We've had over 800,000 individuals that have donated for a chance to win, so many incredible experiences. And one of the things that's been amazing is people like Greg who originally took the challenge several weeks ago, and he did an auction that raised $75,000.


And then, there was a second person who said, I want to do that. A second time, he said, you know, I'll play a second round of golf. And then, a couple of days ago, he called back and said, you know what, not only we raise $150,000 from two different people, I want to do a sweepstakes where someone can enter as little as $10 to play a round of golf and get lunch with me after.

So, it's been an amazing to see so many people just go all in. And Greg, thank you so much for what you've done. We're going to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars from you.

Other people have got in multiple times. Peyton Manning went in twice and raised over $1 million. Bob Menery, a successful sports comedian, he went in three times to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars.

So, it's been great for us to see people want to say we want to help in every possible way and that's what the "All In Challenge" is about is going all in and committing, you know, an incredible item that you're donating or an incredible once-in-a-lifetime experience. Nothing is better than playing a round of golf with Greg, which Greg, thank you again for doing it not one, not two, but three times.

CABRERA: Wow. That says a lot about you and your character, Greg. Thank you of course for what you're doing and offering there, and your generosity, and of time and money, of course. Golf courses are now starting to reopen a little bit as states are loosening some of these stay-at-home restrictions. So, I'm just curious, are there any modifications you would like to see to make sure you stay safe while playing as well as others who want to enjoy the game?

NORMAN: Well, you know, Ana, I think the industry has done a phenomenal job by putting foam in cups and not touching the flag and not touching rakes. Mind you, I'm a big believer of not having rakes in bunkers anyway 365 days a week because, you know, bunkers are hazards.

But I think across the board, the golf industry, whether it's a PGA Tour, whether it's USGA, whether it's the R&A, have done a phenomenal job of managing this process. People want to get out and walk anyway where they want to walk their dog or walk with a set of golf clubs.

It's great to see what's happening with the other PGA tour players carrying their bags. They're doing charitable events coming up this week and next week. So, I think golf should be -- golf is leading the way around the world, in many ways. And I'm proud of our industry and I'm proud of what we can do to get people back out in a safe way.

CABRERA: Absolutely. And Michael, I want to ask you about the return to basketball, because this week, Steph Curry of the "Golden State Warriors" made an interesting point on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" that if there aren't any spectators, fans might witness something they have never seen or heard before on television. Let's listen.


STEPHEN CURRY, GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS PLAYER: This would take it to a whole another level, just pure insanity of what we say on the court, what, you know, that trash talk that happens, even myself, taking part in it. But I think everybody from -- whether you're on the court, on the bench, all the nonsense, like that might be something that's really appealing from a fan perspective to get real up close and personal of what we do on the court.


CABRERA: I'm curious. I want to tune in and see what that experience is like. Michael, what do you think that experience of this sport without spectators could mean in terms of what it would change in terms of how it would change the experience for fans?

RUBIN: Look, first and foremost, we're seeing that Americans and people everywhere in the world are dying for sports to come back. And they're so excited to have something that just gives them great entertainment. I think so many athletes are so excited about being able to play their sport again.

And I think people need to do it as soon as they can do it in a safe way. And I think the reality is, it's most likely going to start without fans in the stadiums first. And I think that's what many of the leagues are working toward. And I think that's going to be the right way to get this going. And I think you'll have fans return when it can be safe.

So, I think everything is about keeping both your players safe and keeping the fans safe. And I think it is likely again that we'll start with the players without fans in the beginning.

As far as the trash talking goes, there's always good trash talking that goes in any sports. That's part of what makes it fun, and that's just guys who are the best at their craft and really just, you know, having fun with what they do.

CABRERA: Yes and the testosterone and the -- all of that going on. Real quick, if you will, feel free, Greg. Jump in.

NORMAN: Yes. Look, I think from an athlete myself, many, many years ago, I wanted to be miked up on the golf course. It's not a basketball court, of course. But I think with today's social media to actually hear the players do the trash talking and talking to each other and setting up plays, I think with the social media we have today, with live stream, real-time connection, I think this is the way sports should go in the future.

Imagine have you had been listening to a "NASCAR" race car driver talking all the time or a "Formula One" driver or a golfer speaking to his caddie from the first tee to the 18th, I think it would be a phenomenal connection for the viewer, for the sports fan, to be able to listen to exactly what the player is doing.

CABRERA: Yes, a real intimate experience, I think. Greg Norman, Michael Rubin, great to talk with you both. Thank you for what you're doing and we'll check back in next week.


RUBIN: Look forward to it. Thanks so much.

NORMAN: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Thanks guys. During this pandemic, people of all ages are finding ways to give back and make a difference. Here's Anderson Cooper with a look at two inspiring kids.




COOPER: -- these boys realized that senior citizens in their communities could use a helping hand. This 12-year-old expanded his nonprofit's efforts providing hundreds of bags filled with essential items to a local senior home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm doing my part in helping. And I feel like it's everyone's duty to help out where they can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need your help to help others. COOPER: This 7-year-old used his $600 in savings to purchase food and supplies for seniors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at all of this food we got!

COOPER: And now, these two remarkable kids are teaming up to help more people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone can have an impact, no matter their age, no matter if they're older or they're young.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here's a care bag for you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With love, we can get through this together.