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Italy Reports Lowest Daily Death Toll Since Early March; More U.S. States Lift Restrictions, Case Count Still High; Strokes and Other Complications Can Accompany COVID-19; The Dr. Fauci of China; Brazil's COVID-19 Death Toll Passes 15K; Major European Football Returns. Aired 12-12:30a ET
Aired May 17, 2020 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello, everyone, and welcome to Studio 7 here at CNN Center in Atlanta. I am Michael Holmes.
Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, Barack Obama criticizes Donald Trump again, this time in a commencement address. How the Trump administration responded.
China's top epidemiologist sits down with CNN for an exclusive interview. What he has to say about the coronavirus.
Also Bundesliga is back. German football is the first.
Will the other European leagues follow suit?
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HOLMES: This weekend, countries around the world and states in the U.S. are continuing to reopen, at least to a degree, after their coronavirus shutdowns. While some people are concerned things are moving too quickly, for others, it is not moving fast enough.
Worth noting Italy, an early epicenter, Saturday recorded its fewest number of deaths since the nationwide lockdown began in March. Measures will be further relaxed come Monday. The prime minister calling the reopening "a calculated risk" that has to be done gradually and "with prudence."
Demonstrators meanwhile turning out in some European cities this weekend against the lockdown measures. Worldwide, Johns Hopkins University reporting more than 4.6 million cases and more than 300,000 deaths.
On the medical front, the battle against coronavirus moving forward. Clinical trials for a Chinese made vaccine are set to begin in Canada. Fewer than a dozen potential vaccines have made it to human trials.
In hard hit New York, an adviser to the governor says the formidable operation of tracing people who have had the virus and those they've been in contact with is now ready to go.
Meanwhile as U.S. states wrestle with reopening, the Trump administration coming under blunt criticism from Donald Trump's predecessor. Jeremy Diamond with that.
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JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the second time in two weeks, former president Barack Obama is speaking out against the Trump administration's response to the coronavirus pandemic, this time speaking out publicly.
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BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: More than anything, this pandemic has fully finally torn back the curtain on the idea that so many of the folks in charge know what they are doing. A lot of them aren't even pretending to be in charge.
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DIAMOND: That criticism came just after a week after President Obama criticized the Trump administration's response, calling it an absolute chaotic disaster and anemic and spotty.
This time we are hearing from the White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany. She said this in response.
"President Trump's unprecedented coronavirus response has saved lives. His early travel restrictions and quarantines protected the American public while his paycheck protection program and direct payments to Americans got needed economic relief to our country.
"Moreover, President Trump directed the greatest mobilization of the private sector since World War II to fill the stockpile left depleted by his predecessor."
Now the last line about a depleted stockpile is something that President Trump and his aides have been repeatedly bringing up as they have defended their handling of the coronavirus pandemic.
The truth of the matter is that, while certain items in the national stockpile had not been restocked by the previous administration, it certainly was by no means completely depleted. Of course President Trump had been in office for three years before the coronavirus arrived in the United States.
President Trump, while he has not directly responded to his predecessor's criticism, he has been leveling other allegations, something he has been calling Obamagate, essentially making evidence- free claims against his predecessor, suggesting he has been trying to undermine his presidency.
In fact, over this weekend, President Trump has been in Camp David with some conservative firebrands on Capitol Hill, some of his loyal allies, trying to find a way to advance that latest conspiracy theory -- Jeremy Diamond, CNN, the White House.
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HOLMES: Dr. Anish Mahajan is the chief medical officer with the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center and joins me from Los Angeles to talk about coronavirus.
Thanks for doing so. It is a good sign that infection rates seem to be falling in many states. That is undeniable.
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HOLMES: But the death toll is still high, over 1,500 a day.
I'm curious if you feel comfortable with the reopening that is going on at the moment?
We cannot all be locked down forever but it is a delicate balance.
DR. ANISH MAHAJAN, HARBOR-UCLA MEDICAL CENTER: Yes, it is. As was said in the segment earlier, we have to be very careful. The reason we have seen the case rates and number of deaths coming down over time is because people have socially isolated.
We know we have continued to see clusters and cases in places where people are unable to socially isolate, such as nursing homes, jails and correctional facilities and food processing plants. In those places they were unable to isolate and so we saw infection. So now, as we begin to reopen, the social distancing will be less.
What we have to watch very carefully is how much transmission are we actually seeing in the community. In some communities, we may see a lot of transmission, in which case we will see a lot more disease.
HOLMES: Exactly. We will just have to wait and see. CNN has been reporting on tensions between the White House and the CDC. We saw the president openly disagreeing with the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci.
From a medical perspective how does that dysfunction impact strategy and messaging for the public which is so important?
At times it feels like politics over science.
HOLMES: Ideally, we would have a highly coordinated federal or national effort around the key things we have to do, such as improving the availability of testing, such as financing and organizing contact tracing and, perhaps most importantly, coordinating between all jurisdictions and states on how they should safely reopen.
What we saw was the CDC's initial reports and guidelines were much more detailed and much more prescriptive in a good way to local jurisdictions to help them make the right decisions. But it looks like what happened with the White House is that those
guidelines were then sort of watered down and changed. They were made much more loose, I would say. So now we have some states who have actually opened up, even as their case rates have not been coming down. And that is very worrying.
HOLMES: Yes. We heard at the White House Friday that early data suggests that vaccine doses by the end of the year are fully approved. Plenty of experts saying that timeline is optimistic, to put it kindly. Some worry about the right precautions not being taken.
Is that a word for you?
Do you think the end is realistic?
MAHAJAN: I think it is very ambitious. But there are some reasons to hope. Let me first say that finding a vaccine is hard. You must first discover the science of something that will work. Then you have to decide if it is safe for human populations and find out if it actually works to prevent transmission of infection.
And then you have to mass produce it. The president seems to be placing bets on candidate vaccines by financing their mass production even before we know whether they work. I understand why that initiative.
But as we heard Dr. Anthony Fauci say, 12 to 18 months is a highly optimistic timeline, certainly not by the end of the year. The reasons we have for hope, I would say, is, as you know, there are multiple vaccines in trials already. We are seeing some interesting animal studies showing some effects. Perhaps more than one of those vaccine trials may be effective but it will take time to see if they are effective.
HOLMES: We are seeing doctors, this is something concerning people, seeing doctors treat coronavirus patients with a range of other issues, blood clots throughout the body, kidney failure, heart inflammation, immune complications.
What are your concerns about that?
Also indications of ongoing chronic issues.
MAHAJAN: The virus as you know for most people, 80 percent of people who get the virus, they will have a mild or flulike illness that they will be OK at home. Some 20 percent of patients will end up in the hospital; 5 percent will have very severe critical illness.
Those with severe critical illness with other comorbidities like diabetes and obesity and who are older in age have a high likelihood of passing away. But if you survive it after being in ICU for 12 to 14 days, you are subject to the same kinds of complications and long term effects that people who have long term chronic illness on a ventilator experience.
[00:10:00] MAHAJAN: Those include things like depression and anxiety, cognitive impairments and physical impairments as well. So those are all very concerning.
HOLMES: Just finally. The other thing, this is a debate around the world, on whether the death toll for coronavirus is higher or lower than the official toll. Some in the Trump administration suggest it is an overcount. A lot of countries and experts suggest an undercount, an increase in death numbers compared from last year suggest that is the case.
Do you feel there is an undercount?
The toll is actually higher?
MAHAJAN: In my opinion I believe it is an undercount. I think because there is not enough testing as we know. But the way the disease works, it can cause clots. Those clots can cause stroke and heart attack.
I'm afraid some patients may have passed away at home before coming to the hospital of a stroke or a heart attack that may have been coronavirus related. But we may never know because we did not have that patient tested.
HOLMES: Dr. Anish Mahajan thank you so much. We appreciate you taking the time.
MAHAJAN: My pleasure. Thank you.
HOLMES: The expert who saw China through the SARS epidemic has criticized his country's early response to the coronavirus. He is sounding yet another alarm. He says China could get a second wave especially if there's no vaccine. CNN's David Culver sat down for an exclusive interview.
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DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is an interview we have been working to get for months, an conversation with the Dr. Anthony Fauci of China. His name is Dr. Zhong Nanshan. He speaks about his concerns that he sees still on the horizon for China. Even though things are starting to open up here, he says they are not in the clear and warns of a second wave. He is also highly critical of how things were handled early on, particularly within Wuhan.
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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The answer is no and --
CULVER (voice-over): In the U.S., many have turned to Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, as that medical voice of reason.
In China, it is Dr. Zhong Nanshan, a well-known respiratory expert, speaking exclusively with CNN. DR. ZHONG NANSHAN, RESPIRATORY EXPERT: I cannot compare with Fauci,
who is the adviser of the president, always standing beside the president.
CULVER (voice-over): Perhaps he does not physically stand next to the Chinese president but Zhong has the trust of the central government. His advice sparks near immediate action.
Take, for example, Wuhan's unprecedented lockdown. On January 18th, five days before the city was shut down, Zhong traveled to the original epicenter of the outbreak. He questioned the local health officials.
ZHONG: In the beginning, they kept silent.
CULVER (voice-over): Zhong, who gained international praise for working on SARS 17 years ago, believed this rapidly spreading novel coronavirus was far more devastating than portrayed by Wuhan health officials.
ZHONG: I suppose they are very reluctant to answer my question. The local authorities did not like to tell the truth at that time.
CULVER (voice-over): Publicly, Wuhan health officials as late as January 19th labeled the virus as preventable and controllable. Later the city's mayor acknowledged not releasing information in a timely fashion.
Zhong pressed harder for the actual numbers and then headed to Beijing on January 20th. He briefed the central government. Within hours, he was addressing the nation in a live interview on state run CCTV.
He said that human to human transmission was likely and, as proof of that, he said the virus had already infected multiple medical personnel.
ZHONG: It's very dangerous showing this kind of disease. It's very contagious. So I suppose at that time the central government listened to our comments, objection and advice.
CULVER (voice-over): Within three days, Wuhan went into a harsh lockdown that lasted 76 days. Yet even with China's central government now taking the lead, there is still skepticism over the official numbers. Zhong believes it is partly political and says the Chinese government would not benefit from underreporting.
ZHONG: The government had a lesson from the outbreak of SARS 17 years ago, they announced one (INAUDIBLE) stack (ph), that all the cities, all the government department should report the true number of diseases. So if you do not do that, you will be punished.
CULVER: What do you believe to be the origin of this virus, in particular?
ZHONG: I think the origin is a very difficult to draw any conclusion to the moment. [00:15:00]
ZHONG: But I believe, this kind of disease has originated from animals.
CULVER (voice-over): U.S. president Donald Trump and secretary of state Mike Pompeo have said they have evidence that it leaked from a lab, namely, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, an origin theory many international medical experts and even U.S. intelligence say is highly unlikely.
CULVER: Now it seems more and more medical experts do not believe that it originated there.
Do you feel that with certainty?
ZHONG: I don't think so. It took up two weeks to make a very close and deep checkup that proved nothing about that. No. I don't think so.
CULVER (voice-over): Zhong's focus now is on preparing China for a second wave of the outbreak. Over the past few weeks, new clusters of cases have surfaced in several cities, including Wuhan.
ZHONG: We are facing a big challenge. It is not better than the foreign countries, I think, at the moment.
CULVER (voice-over): Zhong, like Dr. Fauci, has achieved a celebrity status here in China. His scientific expertise aside, many are impressed with his physical drive.
CULVER: What is it that you have been doing during this period to stay mentally sane, physically fit?
How does Dr. Zhong conduct his days?
ZHONG: I still keep exercising and sports, so all the things. I keep an open mind and eat not too much every time. So that's why it seems to be that I can still do something in my age of 84.
CULVER: Dr. Zhong also spoke about the collaboration he says is ongoing with his medical counterparts in the United States, particularly with Harvard University.
He suggests that, despite things getting highly politicized and tensions between the U.S. and China heightened, the conversations and the collaboration is still underway, at least amongst certain medical professionals -- David Culver, CNN, China.
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HOLMES: And he's 84.
Well, the pandemic has left some areas unable to find enough hospital beds and, get this, coffins. When we come back, how one company in Colombia says it is designing a solution to both of those needs.
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HOLMES: Mexico plans to begin reopening its economy in a couple of week but by the thousands each day, people there continue to contract the coronavirus.
In the northern state of Chihuahua, social distancing and masks are apparent, even at some funeral services, like the one when you see there. People were able to drive past their loved ones' coffins to say their final goodbyes.
In Brazil, turmoil in the government as the country deals with one of the worst outbreaks in the world.
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HOLMES: The newly appointed health minister stepped down Friday after reported clashes with President Bolsonaro on how to manage the crisis. The previous health minister was fired over similar debates.
Brazil has more cases and deaths than any Latin American country and now has the highest number infections in the world.
Italy is reporting its lowest daily death toll from the coronavirus in more than two months. That is some good news. The civil protection agency confirming 153 deaths on Saturday. That is, obviously, very bad.
But it is the lowest increase since March 9, when the government imposed that nationwide lockdown. Italy has been the hardest hit country in Europe, with a total depth of 31,000.
Now in some areas, so many people are sick and so many have died, that there is a shortage of both hospital beds and coffins. A company in Colombia says it has found a way to respond to both of those needs. Stefano Pozzebon explains.
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STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The war reaching a green new milestone, over 300,000 people have lost their lives to coronavirus. Some places unable to bury their dead.
Images from Ecuador, of bodies lying in the streets of major cities like Guayaquil and of people who could not afford proper coffins at the height of the pandemic, inspired a company in neighboring Colombia to do something about it, to create beds that can turn into coffins.
The prototype designed is made almost entirely out of cardboard but strong enough to sustain a body's weight.
POZZEBON: It's not just a bed that turns into a coffin. The main appeal of the structure, is its price, cardboard is an extremely cheap material and widely available all over the world.
The people behind this invention were looking for something that could be turned around as quickly and wide scale as possible, even for countries that cannot afford hospital beds.
ABC Displays says their bed cost less than $100 and is meant to set up emergency hospitals as fast as possible. A hospital bed may not recycle paper, it may raise flags for many in the medical community but the company says they have an answer for the skeptics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): One cannot see this project with conventional eyes. Right now all over the world, we cannot see things as they used to be.
POZZEBON (voice-over): Workers are putting together the first batch of 10 beds that will be donated to Colombian Amazon region, one of the country's regions worst hit by the virus. With 14,000 cases and more than 500 deaths, Colombia seems to have been spared by the pandemic.
But the team at ABC say they hope their invention can help their country and others in the region prepare for the worst -- Stefano Pozzebon, CNN, Bogota.
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HOLMES: We'll take a quick. Break when we come back, football is back in Germany. At least, the seats were empty but there was plenty to cheer about. We will have the details and some highlights after the break.
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HOLMES: Welcome back.
In Greece, hundreds of beaches have opened up again. Authorities had to speed things up since the temperature is supposed to hit 40 degrees Celsius this weekend. But to keep COVID-19 infections at bay, there are a few social distancing rules.
Sun umbrellas have to be 4 meters apart, no more than 40 people per 1,000 square meters on the beach.
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HOLMES: German Bundesliga returned on Saturday for the first time since early March. It is the first major European football league to play games since the coronavirus pandemic.
Does this mean other leagues will follow suit?
Don Riddell with the details.
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DON RIDDELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Football is back and it looks very, very different. But football fans will tell you that it is a lot better than nothing. And Germany's Bundesliga could now pave the way for other top sports leagues to escape their coronavirus lockdown.
RIDDELL (voice-over): On Saturday, six games were played and from Dortmund to Frankfurt, Dusseldorf to Leipzig, the scene was the same: empty stadiums, players walking out separately, coaches and substitutes wearing masks. The Bundesliga is known for the spectacle, the fans, the color, the intensity of the noise.
But this was the closest anybody came to that, supporters socially distancing themselves in a dormant bar.
Borussia Dortmund's young star, Erling Haaland, was having a breakout year before the lockdown and it's definitely now a season that he will never forget.
Another historic achievement here, he was the first to score on the Bundesliga's return. Look closely at the celebration, no touching.
Dortmund thrashed Schalke 4-0, prompting lighthearted speculation that some teams were perhaps still in quarantine. Nobody has played for two months. Athletes, fans and sports administrators all over the world were paying very close attention. The Bundesliga is the first major sports league returning to action.
But in Germany, it is more than just an experiment; it is serious business: 75 percent of the games this season have already been played. The title race is tight. Borussia Dortmund now just a point behind the seven-time defending champions Bayern Munich, who will pay their first game on Sunday.
It is hauntingly different but the players want to keep it as normal as possible. e Dortmund kept with tradition at the end, saluting the famous yellow wall and even if there was nobody there to applaud them back.
RIDDELL: It is too soon to say if this was a success but at least it happened and there is now a model for other sports leagues to try and follow. The Premier League in England has been debating how they could restart.
And all of the major sports in the United States are keen to find a way back to action. In the meantime, the Bundesliga has the stage all to itself, even if this isn't quite the kind of product they would want the world to be watching -- back to you.
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HOLMES: Our thanks to Don Riddell there.
And thanks for watching CNN NEWSROOM. Spending part of your day with us. I'm Michael Holmes. You stay tuned now for "Work from Home: New Reality."
