Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Donald Trump Wants Congress to Investigate "Obamagate" but AG Barr States Any Efforts Has to be Approved By Him First; New Questions For The Navy Today as it Tries to Get The Aircraft Carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt Back Into Active Operations. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired May 18, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: The attorney general of the United States just moments ago, raining on the president's weekend parade. The president, we are told, while up at Camp David told many of his guests that he believes raising the issue of quote, unquote, "Obamagate" is critical.

He wants Republicans in Congress to investigate even though there aren't any facts behind the president's assertions. Also he has been saying this is the crime of the century, but just moments ago, the attorney general -- Mr. Trump's attorney general, William Barr saying, not on my watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO)

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: And we cannot allow this process to be highjacked by efforts to drum up criminal investigations of either candidate. And I'm committed that this election will be conducted without this kind of interference. Any effort to pursue an investigation of either candidate has to be approved by me.

(END VIDEO)

Joining me now, CNN senior political commentator, David Axelrod; and the former Republican presidential candidate, former Republican senator from Pennsylvania, Rick Santorum.

David Axelrod, I just want to start the segment by watching you on live television say that Donald Trump's attorney general, Bill Barr, did the right thing right there.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well no, he did do the right thing. He didn't -- you know obviously there are other questions about how he's conducted but he's absolutely right that a contrived investigation for purposes of winning an election would be the wrong thing to do.

I mean I remember the pressure that was on President Obama and the criticism that he took afterwards because he did not make more a public point about the -- the Russia investigation in the campaign of 2016 but his point after the fact was that he did not want to appear to be putting his thumb on the scale. And so I think that was the right approach. President Trump obviously has a different approach. But it's good that in this case the attorney general is standing up for the rule of law and the appropriateness of actions by the Department of Justice.

KING: And Senator Santorum, to that point, the fact that the attorney general was asked the question, isn't that his bosses fault because the president constantly keeps saying; Obamagate, Obamagate, Obamagate.

He blames President Obama and former Vice President Biden even though the intelligence community when it sent up the documents to Congress said nothing improper was done and all the request about Michael Flynn. Should the president dial it back?

RICK SANTORUM, SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think there's plenty of issues surrounding Obamagate that are legitimate issues that the prosecutor Durham and others are looking at, Bill Barr is looking at.

But to the point of looking to Joe Biden or particularly Barack Obama in this case, I think is just inappropriate. We don't prosecute former presidents. And for the things that they did in office whether they were where they should have been or not, it doesn't matter. We just -- we just don't do that.

We didn't do it when George Bush was pressured by -- some conservatives go after Bill Clinton for what he did. As you mentioned, there were people who were going after him, sure Obama for saying Bush lied, he should be prosecuted for -- for lying about going to war. There's always recriminations for previous presidents.

And we -- we just have never gone down that path and we shouldn't go down this path in this case too. And there are other -- now there are other lower officials that if they did improper things like Jim Comey and others, yes, let's -- we need to investigate them. But we stay after the Bidens and the Obamas and the Bushs and the Clintons.

KING: We should stay with -- in any of the (inaudible) examples we should stay with the facts. Go ahead.

AXELROD: Let me just -- because I know Rick probably misspoke and I just and I don't want -- I don't want him to leave here not having been corrected. The -- President Obama never said during the campaign or his presidency that President Bush lied and should be prosecuted and in fact it was President Obama who decided ...

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: No, I said he was pressured.

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: ...that the

(CROSSTALK) SANTORUM: He was pressured -- yes, he was pressured to do something is what I said.

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: Members of the Bush administration should not be persecuted for decisions that were made relative to the war in Iraq. And that was a controversial decision with some Democrats. So I know that Rick didn't mean it and he wants to get his facts straight.

KING: He said -- he said -- he said pressured by others. Senator Santorum did say he felt pressure from others in the party. Let's -- let's -- let's in every case -- we should follow the facts every case, whether it's a Democrat or Republican being investigated or doing the investigating, it would always help if we could just stick to facts. I know that's wishful thinking in the environment

[12:35:00]

Let me come back into the more political context though, to you first, David Axelrod. President Obama did give two virtual commencement speeches this weekend, in which he was very critical of the president of the United States, and President Trump fired back.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Doing what feels good, what's convenient, what's easy, that's how little kids think. Unfortunately a lot of so-called grown-ups, including some with fancy titles and important jobs still think that way, which is why things are so screwed up.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, he was an incompetent president. That's all I can say. Grossly incompetent. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Help me understand, Rick Santorum's run for president, David Axelrod you ran two successful presidential campaigns. To Mr. Axelrod first, how is this or does this matter in the 2020 campaign?

Is it just entertaining or does a Trump-Obama fight, if you will, impact a Trump-Biden race?

AXELROD: Well look, I think that Obama is going to be campaigning for Biden and making the case for Biden and for change, as he did in 2018 during the midterm elections. And he's a popular figure and he will be valuable to Biden.

I think from the Trump side they probably see this as a way to rowel up and arouse their base, where anti-Obama-ism has always been a tried and true. The question is, do you overshoot the runway and drive people away who should be in your camp by -- by suggesting things that are must now consonant with people's understanding of who Obama was.

KING: So, Senator Santorum, where's the sweet spot then? Do you think this is helpful to the president or should he move on to something else?

SANTORUM: Well I mean in this case, I mean you have to give Barack Obama some of the credit here. I mean, he's the one that brought it up and caused the rebuke and the -- the -- I think it was inappropriate for President Obama to do that. If you look at previous presidents, they have tacked away from being critical.

I mean, Barack Obama made a career of criticizing George Bush for the first four years and blaming him for the recession, and George Bush didn't say anything. And I -- and so I -- I understand Barack Obama is different, that he is more political, that he is going to get more involved, but I think there's a different between getting involved and promoting your candidate Joe Biden than going out and attacking a president based on what his policies are. I think previous presidents have tended to stay away from that. Sort of disappointed that Barack Obama has gone there.

AXELROD: Well let me -- let me -- let me --

KING: We'll see --

AXELROD: -- just let me just say --

KING: Very quickly. Very quickly.

AXELROD: OK. Barack Obama never mentioned George Bush by name and we just talked about the fact that the President of the United States accused President Obama of a crime, part of a fuselage (ph) that began from the beginning of the administration, most of which President Obama hasn't responded to. So, Rick can't lean back on the precedence of the past, because this is this the president doesn't abide by the precedence of the past.

KING: A reminder that we are in a election year gentlemen, it's good to see you both and I promise we will continue to conversation. Less time for politics at the moment, but we will have more time was we get closer to November. Senator Santorum, David Axelrod, thank you both so much for being in.

AXELROD: Thanks.

KING: When we come back a troubling outbreak. Remember the USS Roosevelt, sailors taken off that ship because of coronavirus, they're back on the ship now, some of the test results raising questions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:00]

KING: New questions for the Navy today as it tries to get the aircraft carrier, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, back into active operations. Remember, that ship was sidelined because of concerns about the coronavirus. Now as CNN's Barbara Starr joins us from the Pentagon. Barbara, 13 crew members who were taken off the ship who previously tested positive tested negative, and now the Navy says they've tested positive again. Is that right?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John, and it is a mystery, and it's coming at a pretty awkward time because the Teddy Roosevelt which is moored up pier side out in Guam while it tried to get a healthy crew together has been conducting what they call a fast cruise, essentially a simulation, getting all the health crew members together on the ship, trying everything out, simulating in fact going back out to sea. Everybdoy gets their head in the game, operational pace of activities all simulated, but it's a very important step to getting the ship out to sea.

Now the question is how soon will they be able to get going? In the last several days, 13 days who had cleared they'd been positive, then they twice negative back on the ship because they are said to be healthy. Now 13 of them again positive. It is a medical mystery that they navy is trying to solve. They don't know if it's a testing issue. Were the initial tests somehow wrong? Did they have false negatives at the end and they weren't really clear of the virus? Was there potentially still very low levels of the virus in their system and still they tested negative? Important questions for all of us, of course, trying to understand how accurate these tests may be, but for the U.S. Navy they have put hundreds of sailors back on the ship who are said to be cleared of the virus. They want to get that ship back out to sea. It's a very important step for the Navy to show that they can do it, but now they also have this medical mystery. They have to figure out what's going on with these sailors. John -

KING: Those sailors, A, deserve good healthcare, B, they deserve clarity as this goes forward. Barbara Starr, appreciate the reporting. Come back as we learn more about this. And let's continue the conversation. Now with me retired Rear Admiral John Kirby, former Pentagon Spokesman is of course a CNN military analyst. Dr. Jeanne Marrazzo heads the Division of Infectious Diseases at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

Admiral, I want to start with you. You're an admiral, but you're also a good reporter. You keep working your sources about this. How do they explain this? Do they think it's bad testing? Do they think it's a layover effect? Because if these sailors have been infected twice they would be subject to a giant medical experiment right now.

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY (RET.), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: That's right, and I did talk to Navy officials this morning. They're - as Barbara says, they're not quite sure exactly what the issue is here. Whether there's just remnants of the virus left and they're not going to be symptomatic or not viral; but whether it's a problem with testing.

[12:45:00]

They're working this very, very hard on this John. Right now, they honestly don't know what the problem is. They're going under the assumption that it's probably a testing issue and not necessarily a renew danger to anybody on board the ship.

KING: So Dr. Marrazzo what do you make of this? And I say they would be a part of an experiment; in sense that one of the big conversations we're watching South Korea. One of the questions is when you get corona virus does that give you immunity?

And if so, for how long if these sailors were positive then negative, negative, then positive, do you believe they've been re-infected or do you believe this is some kind of a testing issue?

DR. JEANNE MARRAZZO, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA: Yes, thanks John. It's really complicated issue, so I'll make a couple of points about the test that I think you should know in order to try and interpret what's going on here.

First of all, the test is very specific and that means that if you have a positive test, you can believe it. It detects a piece of genetic material that is quite unique to the SARS COVID 2 virus. So you're not going to see a false positive by enlarge. The other flipside is the false negative, right?

So could these sailors have had a couple of negative tests but actually had virus in their system at the time, and that's entirely possible. There are a couple of reasons for that. One may be that the specimen that was collected at the time they were negative wasn't vigorously collected in the nose.

It may also be that the virus wasn't present in the nose, but was present further on down the respiratory tracks. So there are a lot of things that could happen. The other point I would make is just because you have a positive PCR test - these genetic tests - does not mean you're infectious.

And that's the key thing. It may be that you're just continuing to shed dead virus. We don't really know how long that happens. There is apparently somebody who's been shedding for about 85 days that I'm aware of. So remember it doesn't mean that you're infectious and you need to think about that.

KING: Well let me stick with you then doctor on that point because that's an important question for the United States military which needs to keep its ships at sea and sail as many of them as possible.

Active - I'm not saying they don't care about the safety, but they need to - as soon as it is safe - get them back on board. Where are we in determining that - about the shedding you just talked about and how long it can happen? Do we know the answer? When will we know the answer?

MARRAZZO: I would say we don't know the answer yet. We are doing a lot of prospective studies in people who have been infected so we will be able to track people. As I mentioned, the one person that I know about who has shed the longest has been almost 90 days.

So, that's one scenario. The other thing is this sort of positive negative positive negative scenario that can be related to the things I've talked about before. The real question this brings up is how do you determine someone is not an infectious risk, right?

When they have done pairing of a culturing the virus to the genetic test, the longest you can go and still culture the virus is about 9 days after infection. So, that makes us feel better that these late detection gene tests might actually just represent non infectious virus which is a good thing.

KING: That's an important point. So Admiral when you talk to your sources in the Navy and throughout the military on the readiness question - balancing just like everybody else in this re-opening debate, every state, every company in America - can I re-open safely?

How many people can I bring back? How closely can I put them? Well on a Navy ship, you don't really get much choice about social distancing. And if you just look, more than 8600 active cases in the military.

341 members of the armed services have been hospitalized. 2900 sailors have returned to the U.S.S Theodore Roosevelt. That's still 2,000 shy of its full compliment. But when you have these conversations, where -- how do people feel on the readiness question and on the scale of their own testing and other screenings to be able to answer the safety question?

KIRBY: Well that's what they're working through right now, John. I think they all recognize it. And the Roosevelt circumstance has I think highlighted the challenge of balancing personal safety of your troops with mission readiness.

And how do you get that right as the country tree talks about reopening. Military is also having an active discussion about how they continue to accomplish mission and keep people safe. And so they are working through that right now.

Unlike businesses who are out for profit - the military has a significantly national security obligation to meet, so that they can't drop all their functions altogether. They've got to find a way to work through this in a methodical way because you can't over the long run have a national security capability if you have sick troops.

So they're working through this aggressively right now and the Roosevelt is a good example of that very stair step approach.

[12:50:00]

Get the sailors back on board, work them through their paces and only then get them to see, with probably not the full crew on board even at that point.

KING: Admiral Kirby, Dr. Marrazzo; really appreciate your insights, it's a critical subset if you will of these important issues. We'll try to stay on top of it. I appreciate the insights from both you today.

Up next for us, Apple rolling out its plan to re-open some stores with some big changes for you, the customer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:00]

KING: Important news today in the epicenter of the virus, New York City, a federal testing program for first responders beginning today. The Mayor de Blasio announcing 140,000 antibody test are now available to health care workers and first responders.

This testing program will run for four weeks. The federal government will cover all costs. These tests are voluntary. Look now at the new normal in your Apple store. A glimpse of the new normal as most Apple Stores begin to reopen around the world. Expect the shopping experience there to look drastically different.

The company will require temperature checks at the door for each and every customer. Shoppers must wear face accompanies. Limited number of people allowed in the store at any given time. Interesting there. Thanks for joining us today.

We'll see you back here at this time today tomorrow. Busy news day. Stay with us. Brianna Keilar picks up our news coverage after a quick break. Have a good day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:00]