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As All 50 States Reopen, U.S. Death Toll Now More Than 90,000; Trump Escalates Distraction, Deception, Lies As Deaths Soar; Lawmakers Grill Treasury, Fed Chiefs On Economic Relief. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 19, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These are some of the questions they're looking for. They don't care about your financials, none of that. It's just about your health and that's all that matters here, John.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: It's an enormous, gargantuan task. Stephanie Elam, thanks so much for your help today. And thanks for joining us today as well. We'll see you back here this time tomorrow. Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I am Brianna Keilar. This is CNN's special coverage of the coronavirus pandemic.

As all 50 states reopen, the death toll of Americans is now more than 90,000. Confirmed cases in the U.S. have topped 1.5 million.

And today on Capitol Hill, the treasury secretary warning a permanent damage if the economy doesn't reopen but denying that workers to get their lives to increase the GDP or the stock market. We will get to details on that in just a moment.

But, first we begin with the president's effort to deceive, deflect and distract from the staggering loss of life in this country and his administration's response to this crisis. He is continuing float baseless conspiracy, like he's made against predecessor, President Obama, and his challenger, former Vice President Joe Biden. He lied in his fight against the World Health Organization.

He included a claim of the medical journal's warning that the medical journal says does not exist. He fired the government watchdogs, bringing the total to five, three of them just since April. He has attacked whistleblowers, including the ousted vaccine chief that says the administration ignored warnings. And the president has slammed the media endorsing vile attacks against reporters.

And, of course, he continues to tout an unproven drug with no evidence that it helps coronavirus patients. In fact, he says he is taking hydroxychloroquine himself to help to prevent the virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was just waiting to see your eyes light up when I said this. But -- when I announced this. But, yes, I have taken it for about week-and-a-half now. And I'm still here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's go to Kaitlan Collins live at the White House, our CNN White House Correspondent, and also Dana Bash, our CNN Chief Political Correspondent.

And, Dana, you've covered the White House. You've covered Capitol Hill for years. You've covered crisis of administrations. And I wonder, have you ever seen a situation where -- I know you've seen a situation where a White House is, let's just be honest, flat out screwed up something. But have you ever seen them spend resources wasted on this kind of thing, this blame game at this point of time instead of dealing with the huge problem?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No. I mean, look, all of this is unprecedented in every way, from the virus to the administration's handling, but maybe, in a lot of ways, not handling of it. And so that is something that we've unfortunately come to accept as normal. It is not normal. That is really an important thing keep saying over and over again.

As for the president, not wearing a mask, saying that he's taking this drug, urging states to, quote/unquote, liberate. I mean, this is the president turning back from what he called wartime president to running for re-election president.

And he is appealing to his base in a way that he did successfully in the 2016 campaign, not so much leading up on the midterm elections, and he's banking on it, as he heads into a November election and hoping that he's going to at least get enough people who are still very much in the Trump camp. And on this issue being in the Trump camp means, we are ready to reopen, why is the government's heavy hand still on us and still pushing down the economy. And so that is what he is playing into. And it doesn't get more complicated than that, Bri.

KEILAR: And, Kaitlan, the president just spoke to reporters, right? What did he say?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. He was here with reporters. He's now going up to Capitol Hill, which should note right now, our current understanding from the Republican senators that he's about to have lunch with, is they were not going to be tested for coronavirus before the president arrived or, of course, before that lunch happened.

And so that's another question that we're going to be focusing on here today. Because, so far, the White House has been testing everyone who has come into contact with the president for sustained periods of time.

And right here, the White House before the president left, he did talk about that late night letter that he published on Twitter talking about how he's going to permanently cut-off funding to the World Health Organization if they do not make major substitute changes, is what he called it.

But, Brianna, he's not really saying what exactly it is he wants to see change with the WHO, even though a reporter asked him pretty specifically just a few moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: But, basically, they have to clean up their act. They have to do a better job.

[13:05:00]

They have to be much more fair to other countries, including the United States, or we are not going to be involved with them anymore. We'll do it in a separate way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Of course, the U.S. is the biggest single donor to the WHO. So if they do cut funding permanently, it's going to have to make a lot of changes for them as far as financial-wise.

So it's still unclear what the president is going to do. We know he's criticized the WHO, many leaders have as well. But the president has, at times, criticized them for things he's also done, taking China at their word, having a slow response to the coronavirus outbreak.

And, Brianna, I do want to note one more thing really quickly, is the vice president just told Fox News he is not taking hydroxychloroquine. That's, of course, a surprise, unproven drug that the president announced yesterday he is taking. And it's notable because the president started taking around the time that we reported one of his staffers had tested positive for coronavirus.

The vice president, the next day, also had a staffer test positive for coronavirus, a staffer who has not been at work for the last two weeks. Yet he says he is not following in the president's footsteps when it comes to that.

KEILAR: And, Dana, the president taking this drug, right, that his own FDA issued a warning against taking. He continues to not wear a mask and he's been taking it. I mean, as Kaitlan's great reporting shows, he's been taking it clearly amid concerns that he's been exposed to people with coronavirus and even then he's not wearing a mask. What kind of message does this send to Americans?

BASH: A mixed message. I mean, this is the thing, is that Donald Trump is a patient, if you will. He is somebody who is susceptible to coronavirus, like all of us are. But unlike the rest of us, he is the leader of the free world.

He's the president of the United States and example setting is so key for any president of any party, at any time, but particularly when you look at a pandemic. And when I say sample setting, it's how do you act, and especially as he's pushing states to reopen. How do you want them to do in a safe way? The mask situation, we have been talking about it, Kaitlan has been reporting it. It's really hard to see that changing. It's just not who the president is.

Hydroxychloroquine is also who the president is, and that he's been pushing it for two months. And he's been doing it at least the beginning with the void of information, a real information, except for what he heard from friends and from doctors who he knows. And now, he's doing it despite despite his own FDA saying that there is no proof that it could help and in some ways it could hurt if you have a heart condition and so forth.

But that's not who he is. He's going to do what he wants to do and he wants to prove himself right. If he doesn't get it, you can bet, he's going to say that it's because he's taking this drug even though there will be absolutely no way to prove that.

KEILAR: All right. Dana, thank you. Kaitlan, thank you, live from the White House for us.

We've been talking a lot about this drug the president has been taking, hydroxychloroquine. Let's talk about this with Dr. Radha Rajasingham. She is an Assistant Professor of Medicine at the University of Minnesota Medical School's Division of Infectious Diseases and International Medicine. She's also part of a team that is overseeing a national trial to determine if hydroxychloroquine is effective against COVID-19.

So, Doctor, in one case, you are looking at whether it works when it comes to actually combatting this disease caused by this virus. Can it be used to prevent COVID-19, to prevent getting coronavirus as the president appears to be using it?

DR. RADHA RAJASINGHAM, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA MEDICAL SCHOOL: Well, that's exactly why we are doing a clinical trial. Our trial is investigating whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent COVID-19. So the answer is we don't know. The reason to do the study is because we don't know if hydroxychloroquine has activity against COVID-19 or if it is completely ineffective.

KEILAR: Is it odd to you that he's taking a drug for a purpose to appears to be unproven and, I mean, certainly, it requires some investigation, but this is the president who appears to be investigating on himself. Is that something that strikes you as odd?

RAJASINGHAM: I think it's important to do the research to understand if the drug has an effect. If we don't if it has an effect, really, then the risks of side effects outweigh any benefit. Because right now, we don't know if there is a benefit to taking hydroxychloroquine in this COVID-19 pandemic.

KEILAR: The president's valet tested, someone who you would have exposure to, tested positive for COVID. That was about the time the president asked for this drug, inquired about this drug. What do you make of that?

[13:10:00]

RAJASINGHAM: It sounds like he was trying to take it because he was at high risk of infection. And so there are studies out there that are looking and trying to evaluate whether hydroxychloroquine is useful if you have been exposed to a high risk person. And the results are not out yet. So we don't know if it is effective at all or if it has any benefit.

KEILAR: So if he's taking this under what appears to be a presumption that he could contract coronavirus because he's been exposed to somebody, should he be wearing a mask as one of his courses of proceeding here?

RAJASINGHAM: I think that's a little hard for me to comment on. I think per CDC recommendations, everyone should be wearing a mask especially, if they are not able to social distance. So, in that setting, typically, we are all wearing masks. I'm wearing masks at the grocery store and any public setting. So, I think, generally, masks are better to protect yourself and protect the public.

KEILAR: So as you study this drug, hydroxychloroquine, when you are looking for subjects, subjects in the study, do you screen them out if they have common heart disease?

RAJASINGHAM: Yes, we do. So we are looking at high risk healthcare workers and first responders because those are the highest risk people in our community that are exposed to COVID-19. And what we do is we screen them for underlying conditions.

So if they have an underlying heart condition, a known arrhythmia or they're on arrhythmia medications, and there is a whole host of other exclusion criteria, like if they had kidney disease or other contraindications to this drug, we screen those people out so that we are selecting a population that would not be at high risk for bad adverse outcomes.

KEILAR: So he has. The president has common heart disease. Is it responsible that he would have been prescribed this? Is it possible that his health could be compromised by this?

RAJASINGHAM: I am not going to comment on the president's heart disease because I don't know what type of heart disease that is, so it's a little irresponsible of me to comment. But I think, usually, if you have a known arrhythmia or there're also other medications that may be contraindicated if you're on hydroxychloroquine. So --

KEILAR: Well, I will just say, Doctor, what we do know from his public health release is it's a common heart disease, so I know probably that does not tell you everything you need to know. We are aware that he has some concerns when it comes to the heart. So I won't ask you specifically of the president there. I don't want to put you in a bad situation. But you're screening out people who have common heart disease for taking this drug.

RAJASINGHAM: So we're not (INAUDIBLE) screening people with structural heart disease, so any structural defects in their heart and also people with arrhythmia, so known heart rhythm problems. But every American with heart disease, we're not screening of our study.

KEILAR: You're not screening out? Okay. So you think -- so they may be perfectly fine taking hydroxychloroquine but you think only in a setting where it's like, I guess, a study, not necessarily a proven course of treatment?

RAJASINGHAM: Yes. So I think it's really important to consider this drug in clinical trial settings, because that is how we will get an answer to whether hydroxychloroquine has a therapeutic or a prophylactic effect against COVID-19. I would not recommend taking this outside of clinical trial settings because we do not know if it has any benefit.

KEILAR: Okay. I mean, hopefully, Americans are realizing that as they listen to you, someone who is studying this at the highest levels. We really appreciate your input, really invaluable insight. Dr. Radha Rajasingham, thank you.

RAJASINGHAM: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: Tense moments on Capitol Hill, as lawmakers grill the treasury secretary over loans to small businesses.

Plus, I'll speak live with a salon owner in New Jersey who will defy the governor's order and reopen, saying that he's had enough.

And a disturbing new study that shows what the coronavirus is doing to people once they are infected, and this includes delirium.

This is CNN's special coverage.

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KEILAR: The treasury chief warning today that the longer the nation is shout down, the greater the potential long-term damage to the country as more than 36 million Americans are out of work. Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin testified for the first time about how exactly they are handling the $2 trillion rescue package that rolled out last month.

And this comes after a new report found that treasury had spent very little of the $500 billion that Congress allocated for businesses and state and local governments. One of the more testy exchanges came when Democrat Sherrod Brown pressed Secretary Mnuchin on the risks of reopening the economy too soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-OH): -- pushing people back into the workplace, there has been no national program to provide worker's safety. The president says, reopen slaughter houses, nothing about slowing the line down, nothing about getting protective equipment. How many workers should give their lives to increase the GDP or the Dow Jones 5,000 points? STEVEN MNUCHIN, TREASURY SECRETARY: No workers should give their lives to do that, Mr. Senator.

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And I think your characterization is unfair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Larry Summers is joining me now. He served as treasury secretary during the Clinton administration and he was the Director of the National Economic Council during the Obama administration.

Larry, first, I'd ask you, did you think Sherrod Brown's characterization was unfair?

LARRY SUMMERS, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY: No. I thought it was broadly appropriate. Secretary Mnuchin and the Trump administration are right to be concerned about getting the economy going. What they are wrong about is thinking that you can just decry (ph) it and have it be so.

The right thing for the country to be doing if a far ambitious program of testing, a far more ambitious program of contact tracing, a far more ambitious program of encouraging people to wear masks, a far more ambitious program of being carefully strategic about which areas you open up and which areas you strengthen the protections here. If we do that, we can have a stronger economy and better health status for our people.

What's remarkable, actually, is how unavailing for the economy opening things up is when people are still scared. If you look at the consumer sales data in a state like Georgia, that has tossed things wide open, and in a state like New York, where things are very restricted, there's remarkably little difference. And the reason is that people aren't going to go out and do a lot of economic activity if they're still apprehensive.

And so the real tragedy is that the administration has set up this horrible argument about health versus economics and has missed out on the medical and health investments that are likely to cut across both and could enable us to do better in terms of protecting the population, our most fundamental objective, and also strengthen the economy.

This kind of policy that's being suggested is an invitation to a catastrophic second wave. And --

KEILAR: Yes, making people feel perhaps even more afraid to participate in the economy.

When you hear this report, look, you are someone who can tell us whether this is normal or not, this report that found that treasury has spent very little of the $500 billion allocated for businesses and state and local governments. Is that troubling to you? Is that normal at this point in time? Does this raise concerns? SUMMERS: Part troubling, part less worrisome to me. It's an egregious error that we are not giving money to local and state governments that are desperate if they're going to fight crime, they're going to fight fires, if they're going to staff municipal hospitals, if they're going to be ready for what's going to be a very difficult, hot summer. The failure to disburse money to state and local governments is inexcusable.

With respect to business relief, we've got to be very careful, and in some ways, the early statements of the treasury were not careful enough, that we are doing it in ways that maximize the interests of the broad American people and not just the interests of shareholders. I think that it was a huge error on the part of the treasury to give large grants to the airlines with no expectation of repayment.

And I think if we're taking some time to make sure that our financial report for business is done in a way that helps workers, that helps consumers, that helps the economy and isn't a bailout to their shareholders, I actually think it might well be appropriate to take time whether that's what they are doing with the time or not, I am not really in a position to judge.

But we certainly saw a certain amount of abuse in the PPP program, rich think tanks, the L.A. Lakers getting financial assistance, and being careful to avoid those errors in the future is probably the right thing, whether we're going to find the right formulas or not, I don't know. And, frankly, the administration does not have a terrific track record. But I am prepared to (INAUDIBLE) judgment on that but not on the failure to help state and local governments.

[13:25:05]

KEILAR: I will say, when Senator Elizabeth Warren pressed Mnuchin on why some businesses are getting federal funding and they're not required to keep their workers employed, he was very non-committal on that.

So, just a note at one of the things when they are coming to looking for assurances, perhaps not as strong as you would like. Larry summers, thank you so much for your input.

SUMMERS: Thank you.

KEILAR: Next, I will be speaking live with the salon owner in New Jersey who is set to reopen his shop. He'll talk to us about why he's defying the governor.

Plus, a new study shows if you have this heart condition, you may be at higher risk of dying from coronavirus. So what is it?

And as airlines report an uptake in passengers, what you need to know about flying and the risks that are involved.

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