Return to Transcripts main page


People Head To Beaches, Parks As States Report New Infections; State Of Job Market Amid Pandemic; Biden Says "I Shouldn't Have Been So Cavalier" After Saying Black Voters "Ain't Black" If They Consider Trump; NYT Front Page Filled With Partial List Of Coronavirus Victims; President Trump Declares Churches And Houses Of Worship Essential; Experiment Shows How Quickly Virus Can Spread At Table. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 23, 2020 - 18:00   ET



ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Great to have you here with me. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

It's Memorial Day weekend in the United States and we are seeing two very opposite phenomena tied to the deadly coronavirus pandemic happening right now at the same time.

One, people are flocking to beaches and public parks all over the country today taking advantage of their states relax stay-at-home restrictions. This is Tybee Island, not far from Savannah, Georgia. And this is the Gulf of Mexico South Padre Island in Texas.

Large groups, tight groups of people, very few if any of them wearing masks.

Now, the other side of the emergency today not so festive, two states releasing alarming numbers about the number of new coronavirus cases.

The Governor of Arkansas saying his state had a second peak of new infections just this weekend, and North Carolina reporting its largest ever single day total of people with the coronavirus. More than 1,100 people confirmed infected in North Carolina in one day.

Also this weekend, public health experts are concerned that very large crowds of people will attend worship services tomorrow. That's after President Trump declared churches and houses of worship essential adding a sharp warning to state governors to not keep churches closed.

CNN is live right now on beaches in Georgia and California where despite the warnings and precautions, people are definitely venturing out in large numbers this holiday weekend.

Let's begin in Georgia. That's where CNN's Natasha Chen joins us now. Natasha, you've been out there all afternoon watching the crowds, even talking to people who are enjoying the sunshine.

You even caught up with the Mayor of Tybee Island in the last hour and she is concerned about what she is seeing. NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and let me show you what she and

I have been seeing all day. A lot of people out here, she said that last Saturday, about 12,000 cars came to Tybee Island. So, you can imagine what the holiday weekend what that's like now.

I think the folks that you're taking a look at right here in front of us, and in addition to that, there's a group right behind them. That seems to be more than 10 people, and they're supposed to keep the groups to under 10.

They're also supposed to keep groups at least six feet apart from each other, which for the most part, we have seen people doing that. So, that's the good news.

But the Mayor did talk to me about what she saw on the north end of the beach. Here's what she said.


MAYOR SHIRLEY SESSIONS, TYBEE ISLAND, GEORGIA: I was on the north end earlier. I did see the Rangers down there breaking up groups, and I think that they're just over saturated with people, and I don't know that it's -- you know, it's just a difficult task.


CHEN: And you noticed, she and I were wearing masks because we were in close range talking to each other, and as we were doing that interview, we did hear people shouting at us to take the masks off.

So, you can tell from the fact that nobody here around me is wearing one that that's not a popular idea, despite the fact that the Governor of Georgia did recommend that people wear them in public.

Another thing I want to note is that low tide has already happened. And so from now on, we're going to see there would be slightly less beach as the evening goes on and people are also leaving, so that's helping with creating not so much density -- Ana.

CABRERA: And a reminder, the science shows, masks work. That's the bottom line and they are to protect others, not yourself.

Natasha Chen, thank you. Let's head to Southern California where temperatures are expected to hit the 90s along that coast for Memorial Day weekend. More than two-thirds of the state is moving ahead with that next phase of reopening, including LA and Orange County beaches.

The county officials are still warning beach goers, they must practice social distancing, and CNN's Paul Vercammen joins us from Santa Monica.

I know Paul that is a popular beach there where you are and yet, it's pretty quiet today besides the bike path.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's stunningly quiet. The bike path has just opened. And so people are out walking and some of them have masks on, some of them don't, riding bikes. That's all in bounds.

You're allowed to skateboard or use -- here comes a cluster people with masks on their razor scooters. So, the rule is, you can do that. What you can't do is hang out on this beach and look at all of that white sand.

This beach normal normally would be dotted with umbrellas and blankets and coolers the rest of Memorial weekend, so the people are paying attention to the rule for the most part. And it's so wide open right now. We ran into a tourist and he was shocked at this scene.



TROY SETH, TOURIST: You know, I'm a diehard New Yorker. But to be honest, right now, if I had to sit in New York or had to sit in California, Santa Monica Beach, hands down, I'm going to take this.

It doesn't get better than this, I feel like I'm in Bora Bora right now, but I'm in Santa Monica.


VERCAMMEN: So, that's the scene in Santa Monica. Now the tough part of this whole scene that you see behind me, that pier is still closed, that is part of the economic lifeblood of this city.

They rely so heavily on their tourism dollars, and without any hotel tax, without any sales tax, Santa Monica is suffering from a $40 million deficit just in the three months since the COVID-19 outbreak and saying it'll be some $240 million perhaps until the year 2022.

So, they're doing a lot to adjust, to consolidate, to make moves to get out of this deficit because these beach cities they're rely so heavily on tourism and are really getting hit hard -- Ana.

CABRERA: You know, Paul, beyond the beach there, let me ask you a bigger picture in the State of California because that state has reported more than 2,000 new cases of coronavirus a day for the last four days.

You know, put that into perspective for us. How much concern is there that the state, you know, as it is reopening, it is going to see a big spike in cases?

VERCAMMEN: Well, there's definitely a concern, but it's sort of been tamped down by this. They have been testing more readily throughout Los Angeles County and some of the more populous counties and in fact, they are very satisfied with the hospitalization rate in this county, and that's why they opened up this, you know, bikeway here.

So, we just have to wait and see. Don't forget, we're a nation state of 40 million people, much larger than many countries in the world. And so yes, that's an alarming number, but they're very satisfied at the time with the hospitalization rate. If there's any flare ups, they definitely will pull back. And both the

Governor and the Mayor of the City of Los Angeles have warned that if they see any sort of spike or aberrant behavior, if this beach was completely clustered up right now, they might reconsider whether or not they should open it.

We'll just have to wait and see, but they are content for now. They're still warry. They're going to be cautious, Ana. We'll see what happens when they go forward.

CABRERA: Well, it's good to see people there taking precautions and following the rules for now. Thank you, Paul Vercammen.

With us now is Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, the chief clinical officer at Providence Health System. And Dr. Stephen Sample, an Emergency Physician at Memorial Hospital and Healthcare.

Dr. Compton-Phillips, it is a holiday weekend and the beaches are open. What do you see is the biggest risks?

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: All right, thanks, Ana. I think the biggest risk is actually people are sick and tired of this and they are ready to get out and play.

And so I think, you know, what we've known from the very beginning that this is more like a marathon than a sprint and we've just finished the first six miles. We've got 20 more to go and we have to keep sticking with the great behavior change we've seen so far and Americans to be able to slow down the rate of transmission.

And so, it's going to be tough keeping up with what we've figured out how to do in the past couple of months as we start getting back to a more normal version of life over the next few months.

CABRERA: Dr. Sample, North Carolina reported its highest one day increase of COVID-19 cases today, just one day after Phase 2 of reopening began in that state.

Meantime, Arkansas Governor, Asa Hutchinson says his state is experiencing its second peak of COVID-19 cases. That this peak is even higher than the first peak. The governor said people also were infected, he believes from just one high school pool party that that was a big part of that number.

Do you think we will see spikes from these gatherings and crowds that are, you know, out there this weekend?


Like Dr. Compton-Phillips said, we're playing again. People are out. And everything we do in life has a risk. Nothing I did yesterday, nothing I did today and nothing I do tomorrow is without risk.

So, these people on the way to the beach, you know, they're still stopping at gas stations and they're still stopping to buy food. So they're really going to have to keep up with the distancing measures we've put in place so far.

I'm worried. But these days, I'm kind of always worried, it seems like. Could this cause a spike? Yes, it could cause a spike. It probably will.

Can we handle it? Yes. Probably. Right now, our hospitalization rate seems to be pretty well under control in most areas of the country.

But remember, when we say we're open for business, we're just telling you I've got room for you in my ICU, so this is not supposed to be a free for all. I'm afraid, it kind of is going to be one though.

CABRERA: And I mean, these warnings. We have seen some positive headlines this weekend. In New York, numbers are down across the board. The United Kingdom is saying it's seeing a downward trend in deaths. Italy reporting its number of cases down as well.

The C.D.C. estimating the mortality rate is 0.4 percent of people that have symptoms, which is lower than initially thought. Still high though, higher than the flu, for example, Dr. Compton-Phillips, should people be celebrating this this weekend?


COMPTON-PHILLIPS: I think we're going to have a lot of time to celebrate after we have a vaccine, and what we need to do now is continue to use really good judgment while we -- because we're all getting back to work. We're all getting out to play. We're all restarting our lives.

And so what really worries me is about like the little clip you showed earlier about people actively saying, don't wear a mask, right? That's one of the things we know that can keep people safe.

So, how do we continue to do the things that are annoying, but necessary for us to make it through to the other side of this without doing what's happened so far, which is we've lost 100,000 American lives to this germ, and we do not want to lose any more.

And that means we need to keep doing those annoying, but things that work like wear a mask, wash hands and stay six feet apart.

CABRERA: I mean, somehow the mask wearing has become a political issue. Listen to North Dakota's Governor, a Republican talking about just that -- masks are becoming political.


GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): Either it is ideological or political or something around mask versus no mask. This is a -- I would say senseless dividing line.

If someone is wearing a mask, they're not doing it to represent what political party they are in or what candidates they support.

They might be doing it because they have got a five-year-old child who has been going through cancer treatments.


CABRERA: You hear him get choked up there, and politics aside, Dr. Sample, this is a public health issue. How important is wearing a mask in public?

SAMPLE: It's very important. It's very, very, very, very, very important. And the fact that this is a political issue at all has me in a near rage of about 90 percent of the time these days.

You know, we talked about sacrifice and my granddaddy marched across Europe four times alongside tanks. My papa was sunk in the English Channel on his way to the Battle of the Bulge. That is what sacrifice looks like.

And for this generation, we are asking for one bit of sacrifice, put your mask on and stay six feet back. Because when I see people out who are not wearing masks in my part of the country, I was at Walmart just the other day about one in 10.

It feels a whole lot like you're telling me that you do not care about me. You do not care about my wife who is a stage four cancer patient who is in remission. And you do not care about the five-year-old little kid with cancer.

This is not the hill to die on, Americans. I promise you, this is not it. Sacrifice, it is pretty easy. It's uncomfortable, but I do it all day long every day.

CABRERA: Dr. Compton-Phillips, is it safer to be outdoors versus say inside a store even if you are wearing a mask?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: It absolutely is. Outdoors, there's a lot more airflow. There's wind. So, if you do cough or sneeze, it gets dispersed, and so when you see people exercising outdoors far away from other people without a mask, oh, that's probably okay.

If you're indoor at Walmart, next to a clerk that might -- you're one of 50 people that they're going to see in the next hour, right? You are helping that clerk stay safe inside if you're wearing your mask.

Outside, if you're exercising alone without anybody around, it's probably okay. And it's that in between space that's a lot harder to navigate right now, but when in doubt, wear a mask. You're going to protect your neighbors.

CABRERA: Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips and Dr. Stephen Sample, thank you, and a Happy Memorial Day weekend.

SAMPLE: Thank you.

CABRERA: Tens of millions of Americans are employed this weekend -- or unemployed this weekend because of the pandemic and our next guest predicts nearly half of the jobs lost are not coming back.

Former presidential candidate Andrew Yang on the state of the job market, next.



CABRERA: Some people who lost their jobs due to the pandemic are making more money on unemployment than in the workforce and when presented with the option to return to their jobs, they are saying no, thanks. CNN's Kyung Lah reports.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How's it going? My name is Andrew and I'm calling from Reliable Staffing ...

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As businesses look to reopen --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will work with you during the COVID situation.

LAH (voice over): Job recruiters like Andres Nunez search for people to take the jobs.

Yet one out of every five calls he makes --


ANDRES NUNEZ, JOB DEVELOPER, RELIABLE STAFFING: They don't want to come out. They want to come out because the price isn't right.

LAH (on camera): How does unemployment fit into that piece?

NUNEZ: People would rather just get the unemployment --


LAH (voice over): Because in many cases, it pays more. Unemployment benefits average more than $350.00 a week nationwide in state benefits, plus an additional $600.00 per week in Federal stimulus funding.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before unemployment I was lucky to make between $250.00 and $300.00 a week.


LAH (voice over): this recent college graduate who asked her name not be used, was laid off from a bowling alley in Ohio in March. Her untaxed unemployment is three times her old take home pay.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have been able to pay off my car three months early.

LAH: You are making more money not working. What is -- what do you think about that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's lessening the stress of going back to work.


LAH (voice over): Exposure to the virus is the biggest concern, she says as the economy reopens.


LAH (on camera): If the bowling alley calls and says we want to hire you back, but you have this option of unemployment, which one do you choose?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see, that's actually a hard question. This is the first time I felt financially stable in a long time, but then again, I'm very much the type of person where I like to feel like I'm earning my money in the same way like everyone has in my mind a right to live comfortably and not have to worry.

And I think this level of unemployment money is allowing that to happen.



LAH (voice over): But that doesn't help employers like Josh Souder.


JOSH SOUDER, DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, IE ENTERTAINMENT GROUP: You know, employees that won't return my calls, I had one employee show up and quit two days later to go back on unemployment.


LAH (voice over): Souder runs a Drunken Crab in North Hollywood, California. When we met him at the beginning of the coronavirus crisis, he had just laid off 75 employees.


SOUDER: I'm worried about having a heart attack to be perfectly honest with you.


LAH (voice over): Today, his dining room sits empty. Carry out only.

Unemployment verification requests are delivered by the handful.

A few employees are back. As far as the others -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOUDER: The amount of money that people are making on unemployment right now, quite honestly is more than what we were paying them before.

LAH: Do you feel like you're competing with unemployment?

SOUDER: No question. I don't blame them. But we do need workers to come back eventually. This is a limited amount of money that you will receive for a limited amount of time that will run out.


LAH (on camera): The Federal stimulus money, the $600.00 per week is set to expire at the end of July. The unemployed woman you heard from in our story, she said that this entire experience has taught her that her wages and the wages of people who might work in the theater behind me, well, those wages simply are not high enough in this country, especially if you consider college loans and healthcare.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.


CABRERA: Joining us now, former 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang and Andrew, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is calling for an end to these enhanced unemployment benefits, in part because he believes that it does disincentivize people to get back to work? What's your reaction to that?

ANDREW YANG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Ana, it's an oversimplification, to say the least. The fact is we have almost 39 million Americans who filed for unemployment and 42 percent of those jobs are not going to come back.

These unemployment benefits are a vital lifeline to many, many Americans who have a very unclear and uncertain future. But the reality is, we need to disconnect this financial support from going back to work.

If you were to ask these people, hey, you're getting this money and you can keep it if you go back to work, many of them would work as soon as the coast was clear.

But right now, these benefits are helping people make choices that are better for them, which includes in some cases, not going back to work in a bowling alley or another place where they're going to interact with many, many customers in a way that makes them feel unsafe.

CABRERA: You just said that 42 percent of the jobs lost are never coming back. That is stunning. Which ones specifically and why?

YANG: You can look at a range of industries, Ana, but the example I like to use is that Macy's has furloughed, almost all of its 130,000 employees. How many of those workers are going to be brought back in the next number of weeks?

Many of them are not going to come back because those stores are closed for good.

And if you look up Hertz, it just declared bankruptcy today. Victoria's Secret, you can just go through a whole list of retail, hospitality, travel, entertainment, a lot of those businesses are not going to return to anywhere near the levels of employment they were at before.

And so we have to start thinking really, in new ways as to how we can create millions of jobs in the days ahead, because that's what we're going to need.

We need a new Marshall Plan style initiative to try and rebuild our labor market.

CABRERA: When I hosted your first CNN Town Hall, about a year ago, it feels like 10. Your campaign was becoming known for your proposal, the universal basic income, the plan to give every American adult $1,000.00 a month.

I mean, you're still trying to do a version of that right now, and I know you just got $5 million from Twitter's Jack Dorsey to hand out money to people who are hurting financially from this pandemic, how is this going to work?

YANG: Well, we have, unfortunately, a waiting list of 40,000 Americans who've already requested micro grants at our website, and Jack's incredibly generous gift of $5 million will enable us to send $250.00 to about 20,000 of those people.

And I talked to 10 people who got micro grants just yesterday, Ana. This cash is putting groceries on the table. It's giving them the ability to pay rent, next month.

Americans are in a really, really dire situation across the country right now. We are staring at a new depression if our government does not lead us out of it.

CABRERA: Minorities and women are being disproportionately affected by this crisis. New numbers show the unemployment rate among women has climbed to 15 percent. Black and Hispanic women hit especially hard. What do you think can be done about that?

YANG: We need to rewrite the rules of our economy from the ground up because this is the equivalent of a natural disaster and we all know who gets hurt the worst in a natural disaster. It's people with lower levels of resources, which unfortunately overlaps with people of color and women in America.


YANG: It's one reason why I believe a universal basic income or emergency cash relief measure is so vital because it's going to put money in the hands of those who need it most.

Right now, too many of those businesses and families are falling through the cracks where 90 percent of minority owned businesses were not able to get money through the Paycheck Protection Program, because they didn't have a private banker they could call.

CABRERA: So, what's the answer? I mean, should they just keep trying?

YANG: Well, our systems right now are not designed to do what we're asking them to do, Ana. It's one reason why with Humanity Forward, we're just making micro grants directly to people through our website after we verify some information.

A lot of the families we're talking about did not file tax returns, the I.R.S. does not have their bank account on file.

Our government should be taking much more extraordinary measures to try and get money into Americans hands in new ways that don't go through state unemployment offices or the I.R.S.

CABRERA: Andrew, you obviously know so much depends on the leadership at the top and right now, there's a presidential election happening. Campaigning is happening even in the midst of this pandemic. So, I have to ask you about former Vice President Joe Biden and some comments that have caused controversy.

He was on "The Breakfast Club" this week. He said the following about black voters who are undecided about who they will vote for this November. Listen.


QUESTION: It's a long way until November. We've got more questions.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You've got more questions? But I am telling you, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then, you ain't black.

QUESTION: It doesn't have nothing to do with Trump. It has to do with the fact I want something for my community. I would love to see --

BIDEN: Take a look at my record, man --


CABRERA: The Vice President is now apologizing saying he shouldn't have been so cavalier, and now we're learning that the Trump campaign is planning to launch a $1 million attack ad centered around Joe Biden's comments there. What's your reaction?

Can you still hear me, Andrew?

Oh, I think we might have lost the audio connection there, unfortunately.

Andrew Yang, our thanks for that conversation, and hopefully we can revisit that last question another time.

We are getting a first look at the front page of Sunday's "New York Times" and it is a stunning and sobering reminder on this Memorial Day weekend.

The front page that will greet Americans tomorrow, next.



CABRERA: Former 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang is back with us now. It was like the worst possible time to lose that connection we have here. So thank you for sticking around with us.

Before we lost you, I asked you for your reaction to the Vice President's comments this week about black voters weighing their choice between himself and President Trump. Let's just play the clip one more time.


CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, RADIO HOST: It's a long way until November, we got more questions.

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You got more questions, but I'm telling you if you have a problem figuring out whether you are for me or Trump, then you ain't black.

CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: It don't have nothing to do with Trump. It has to do with the fact I want something for my community. I would love to see you ...

BIDEN: Take a look at my record, man.


CABRERA: So Andrew, the Vice President is now apologizing saying he shouldn't have been so cavalier and we are now learning the Trump campaign is planning to launch a $1 million attack ads centered around those comments. What's your reaction?

ANDREW YANG (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I was with Joe in South Carolina and he's the nominee because of his long standing relationship with the African-American community. He was Obama's VP for eight years and that relationship is very, very strong.

I think the Trump administration can try and make something out of this particular comment. But Joe apologized, everyone is ready to move on. I think it's money terribly spent on their part, honestly. They should be focusing on something with more - really anything, because that's going to be a loser for them.

CABRERA: But when you hear him say that, that doesn't give you a little bit of the 'why did he go there'? YANG: I think we know that Joe was attempting to be cavalier as he

said and he apologize for it immediately afterwards. I think everyone is going to forget about this in a day or less.

CABRERA: A quick last question for you. We know Biden is weighing his options for a running mate right now. You were in this race, who do you think you should pick?

YANG: I'm a huge fan of the people that have been reported as in consideration for the VP slot. He can't go wrong with any of the candidates that I've spent time with. That's obviously Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar, Elizabeth Warren.

I haven't spent as much time with some of the other women in consideration, but he's got some phenomenal people to choose from and he can't go wrong with any of the people I've spent time with.

CABRERA: All right. Andrew Yang, as always, good to have you with us. Thank you very much. Be well.

YANG: Thank you and Happy Memorial Day weekend, summer 2020.

CABRERA: Hoping for a very healthy Memorial Day weekend to you and your loved ones. Thanks.

Now, the New York Times has a sobering reminder of the personal toll of this pandemic. This is tomorrow's front page.


It features the names and ages of just some of the people who have lost their lives to the coronavirus. Look at that. I mean, this apparently is only 1 percent of those who have died. Right now almost 100,000 American lives have been lost.

I want to bring in CNN Chief Media Correspondent and Anchor of "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter. Brian, this is just so powerful. We've seen the numbers, but this really humanizes the toll.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It does and that's the intent of the editors of the Times who have just shared this front page. It'll be heading to the printing press for Sunday morning's additions. And this is the first in the newspaper history, in modern history, in the last 40 plus years, to run a full page like this, no photos, no other news, just the names.

And as you mentioned, Ana, this is 1 percent of the current total of the deaths in America as a result of COVID-19. There are about a thousand names that the Times compiled with brief summaries of their lives. A little snapshots of who these people were.

This has been gathered from newspapers across the country, so it tries to be as much of a greater sampling as possible of the true human toll. But you'd have to print this page again another hundred times to get to the point where you're showing all of the names of all of the victims of this crisis. And we're only in the first wave of this, at the very beginning of

this. The Times chose to print these names now, partly because we're approaching that milestone of 100,000, but also partly because there's a sense of fatigue among many members of the public, what you've been talking about people heading out, understandably. But because there is that sense of fatigue, the Times wanted to try to illustrate just how severe the toll has been.

CABRERA: And it sure is heavy to see how much ink those names take up and space and it's not even close to the full numbers ...


CABRERA: ... as we are now already sitting here at 96,662 deaths that are confirmed as of this moment.

STELTER: And we know that the true toll is even higher. All of the experts say, there's an undercount that's happened, because some people have died in their homes. So the excess deaths this bring have been even higher.

Dan Barry in the Times tomorrow says imagine if a city, a U.S. city of 100,000 were wiped off the map tomorrow. Imagine the impact of the suffering, because that is what's happened to date. So that's another way to put this in perspective. And I think, Ana, there's been a lack of mass grieving, a lack of memorials, the way that we associate with national disasters.

Maybe, it's time to start having those. We've seen Lincoln Center here in New York every, night having a memorial service on the internet, a streaming memorial service. We know CNN is going to have a special next Sunday trying to pay tribute to some of the lives that have been lost.

This country needs to grieve as much as people do understand that they want to get to the beach as well, this country needs to grieve for who has been lost.

CABRERA: For sure. Brian Stelter, thank you. We'll be right back.

STELTER: Thanks.



CABRERA: I'm about to show you just how easily this virus or any virus for that matter can spread from one person to another from even the most casual contact. It makes a huge and shocking difference when you can see it. Here's CNN's Randi Kaye.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Puts some in and should I grab it all together as well?



KAYE (voice over): This yellow tinted goo is a mixture of petroleum jelly and fluorescence solution.


HUGHES: Under an ultraviolet light, this will glow.

KAYE: OK. And that's going to simulate germs on my hand.

HUGHES: Correct. So this will simulate context spread from you to other things that you touch and maybe touched by someone else.


KAYE (voice over): Dr. Patrick Hughes is an ER doctor who oversees the emergency medicine simulation program at Florida Atlantic University.


KAYE: Hi, ladies.




KAYE (voice over): He invited us to lunch, designating me the so- called spreader so we could see how germs on my hand which could be coronavirus droplets could spread in a restaurant setting. At our table, we keep our masks on to protect ourselves and each other.


KAYE: Here's a menu for you.


KAYE: Yes, thanks.


KAYE (voice over): I pour water for everyone at the table.


KAYE: This is great.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for having us for lunch.

KAYE: Sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KAYE (voice over): And pass around the food, wondering if I'm passing

around the virus too.


KAYE: (Inaudible)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes. Awesome. Thank you.

KAYE: Do you mind to take the bowl?



KAYE (voice over): We also share the salt and pepper. Then it's time to turn on the ultraviolet lights to see what I may have spread. Remember, I was the only one with what could have been the virus on my hand.


KAYE: You didn't have any germs on you. I was the spreader.


KAYE: So when you look at my hands and look how it transferred to some of you just by sharing items at the table or a knife in this case or a water glass. I mean, it only takes a little bit to make somebody else sick.



KAYE (voice over): How about that bowl of chips I passed around?


HUGHES: You can see where she touched the edge of the bowl to pass it around, the simulated germs stuck right to the surface.

KAYE: And then everybody else touches the bowl.


KAYE (voice over): Same with the salt and pepper shakers and the pitcher of water. There was contact spread on the cups and menus too even my lunch friends.


HUGHES: This is the spot where when Randi came in to have lunch with her friends, she touched right on the shoulder just to greet everybody and you can see the outline of her palm print, her handprint right on the shirt. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's quite scary the amount of spread that one

person can have in a room like that.

KAYE: We also want to see what would happen if you're out for lunch or dinner with a friend or your family at a restaurant and somebody coughs.


So let's turn up the lights and let's see the cough.


KAYE (voice over): There were now more droplets on the bowl of chips. The menus and the water pitcher too.


KAYE: Look at what happened to the fork after that simulated cough. Those would be real germs if that was a real cough. On my fork, I would have picked up the fork not being able to see those germs with the naked eye.


KAYE (voice over): Even the woman sitting to my right several feet away from the mannequin that coughed had droplets on her face.


HUGHES: You can see it's on her face, her glasses, her mask.

KAYE: If she wasn't wearing a mask, she would have breathed it in.

HUGHES: Correct.



CABRERA: Wow, that was Randi Kaye reporting.

President Trump is threatening to override state governors if they don't open places of worship this weekend. Legally can he do that? Elie Honig answers your questions in this weekend's cross exam next.

But first a quick programming note for you. Don't forget to join CNN's Fareed Zakaria tomorrow night as he investigates the moment a pandemic was born. CNN Special Report CHINA'S DEADLY SECRET begins Sunday night at 9 pm Eastern.



CABRERA: Welcome back. We will have much more of our coronavirus coverage. But first new developments this weekend in the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery. William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., the man who recorded our breeze killing made his first court appearance in Georgia Friday a day after being arrested.

Investigators believed he used his vehicle to try to confine and detain Arbery multiple times in the moments leading up to his death. Arbery 25 years old was shot and killed while jogging in a neighborhood outside the City of Brunswick in February.

Gregory and Travis McMichael have also been arrested in connection to Arbery's death. All three men now face murder charges.

Here now to answer your legal questions, CNN's Legal Analyst Elie Honig for our weekly cross exam segment. And Elie, one viewer wants to know, "Could the Justice Department bring federal charges in the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery?"

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So yes, Ana. The Justice Department can bring federal charges even with Georgia prosecutors already filing state level murder charges. Now, the legal term for this is separate sovereigns and that means that you can have both federal and state prosecutions for the same crime or same conduct. Just last year, the Supreme Court confirm that that is constitutional.

Now, there is a federal hate crime law on the books. It was originally passed in 1968, during the civil rights movement. It carries a potential life sentence. And under that law, prosecutors must prove two things. One, that there was a murder and unlawful killing and two that the killing was racially motivated.

So the Justice Department has said they're assessing the evidence and we could end up with prosecutions playing out on two separate legal fronts.

CABRERA: Okay. In this week, President Trump also threatened to override state governors if they don't open places of worship this weekend. Another viewer asks, "Does the President have the legal power to overrule state governors on re-opening businesses and places of worship?"

HONIG: Short answer, Ana, no. This is not a monarchy we live in. The President certainly has broad legal powers, especially in an emergency, but he does not have absolute power. He does not have this power. We know that first from the Constitution itself.

The 10th amendment reserves power to the states. Meaning, if it doesn't specifically give a power to the federal government, it's a state power regulation of public health and safety is a classic state function. We also can look to statutes and laws. All 50 states have laws enabling governors to issue closure orders and there is no federal law enabling the president to override them.

But this does not mean that governors are all powerful either. We've seen lawsuits challenging state level closure orders. The Wisconsin Supreme Court just overturned one of those orders last week. So just as the President is not all powerful here, neither are

governors. They're all part of our constitutional system of interlocking balance of powers.

CABRERA: I want to ask you another question when it comes to personal health and safety and personal rights. Let's picture a scenario. I'm at a store. The person behind me is risking my health by not wearing a mask. That person is coughing or sneezing, do I have any legal rights?

And one viewer also wants to know what legal consequences could there be for somebody who has coronavirus and carelessly infect somebody else?

HONIG: Yes, Ana. A lot of people asking this question this week. So really we're looking at the same laws that apply anytime a business or an individual causes somebody's personal injury or illness. There could be civil liability, there could be a lawsuit for damages. And the key legal question here is negligence.

Meaning, was there a failure by some person or business to take reasonable care? Now, what exactly does that mean in the context of coronavirus? Is it enough for a business to warn if you come in here, you might get sick to require facemask, to do temperature checks, while our courts are starting to work through these very questions right now across the country.

General rule of thumb though, the more precautions that are taken, the better the legal defense. Also, in very rare cases where someone commits an intentional act, intentionally coughs at somebody, sneezes, spits on somebody, believe it or not, it's actually happened. There could be criminal liability.

Unfortunately, we have seen scattered cases of this throughout the country, often targeted at police officers or others who are trying to enforce safety measures.


So in those cases, Ana, people can and have been charged with crimes and I think rightly so.

CABRERA: Okay. So there's your warning, to do the right thing. Just wear a mask, protect yourself, but most importantly protect others. Elie Honig, it's always good to have you with us. Thank you.

And a reminder to our viewers that they can continue to submit those great questions that you're asking on Just look for Ellie's cross exam segment there, the link there. Thank you for being here with me.

I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Great to have you with us on this holiday weekend. Wolf Blitzer will pick up our coverage in a Special Edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" next. Goodnight.