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Protests Erupt Across The U.S. Following The Death Of George Floyd; Philadelphia Mayor Institutes Mandatory Citywide 8 P.M. To 6 A.M. Curfew, Per Police; MN Gov: I'm Mobilizing National Guard To Shut Down Violence On Streets. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 30, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: And there is an ordinance, there is a rule here that what happens, as they say, you have to leave, you have to move and if you don't move, they then move in and make arrests.

And in most cases, what happens is a lot of the people that they do arrest wind up getting disorderly conduct summons and other violations and they actually get released. And that has been happening in some cases.

A lot of times with protests, what happens is if you are in the street, that's illegal, definitely. They tell you to get out of the street.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Okay.

PROKUPECZ: But as you said, if you gather and stay in a large group together, they can tell you -- and here we go. Something just happened and you see police chasing down protesters.

And now, and I think police now are saying "back up" to actually -- the officers are to hold.

CABRERA: And there's somebody on the ground there.

PROKUPECZ: You don't want the officer chasing you.

CABRERA: Shimon, in the middle of the street when your photographer was zoomed in. I know it is harder for you to see with the human eye on the ground, but it did appear that there was a gathering around somebody who was on the ground in the middle of the street there.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

CABRERA: Just following the rush of people who were running away from that zone. Do you know what's going on there?

PROKUPECZ: Yes, they have arrested someone. Yes, someone. They have arrested someone. He is on the ground. You could see him here.

So you could see here, they made an arrest here and then they made an arrest over there. So, they went after this person for some reason.

So they -- what they have been doing is as they see, as people gather here, for whatever reason, Ana, they decide at whatever point that they are going to move in.

Usually, what happens is there is bottle throwing, something happens and then the officers give chase. You can see them walking this person away after they arrested him.

And here we go again on this side, more happening, the same here now. Police running in. Another arrest happening, Ana.

Protesters yelling at the police. They have a person on the ground. We're going to walk here ahead to try to give you -- but it is continuing here now.

Again, we don't know why, what led to this? Why they picked this person to arrest? But you hear police yelling "move back".

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back, move back, move back.

PROKUPECZ: And police continuing to push people back.

CABRERA: Okay, Shimon, we're going to break away here for just a moment. We know you are going to stay with this images and continue to do your excellent reporting from the ground.

Obviously, heightened emotion there right now in this moment and as you have pointed out, we saw a couple of arrests there live on our air right now.

It is currently 6:03 Eastern Time. I want to just reset for our viewers who may be just tuning in this hour.

And I want to welcome our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. I am Ana Cabrera in New York.

And let me just set the scene for you right now because in just three hours, the second night of curfews in Minneapolis and St. Paul will begin after the violent demonstrators hijacked the peaceful message of those condemning the death of George Floyd.

A furious Minnesota Governor, Tim Walz announcing today, he is fully mobilizing the National Guard for the first time in that state's history, after he drew a clear line between peaceful marchers and smaller mobs.

And let's go to L.A. right now. This is on 3rd Street, we are told not far from the city's Farmer's Market, things have been getting tense.

Police cars being vandalized, water bottles and other bottles being thrown according to our Paul Vercammen who is also hearing rubber bullets fired there. However, we have not seen direct violence against officers.

More than 500 people were arrested last night after clashes in Downtown Los Angeles and half a dozen LAPD officers were hurt. Places like Denver and Milwaukee also adding curfews this evening.

President Trump meanwhile is threatening to use what he claims is the unlimited power of the military to end the violence. Both the President and Attorney General Bill Barr are blaming leftwing groups for the violence, fires and looting.

But Minnesota officials say they are seeing indications that white supremacists are also eyeing their states to stoke the chaos.

And as nonviolent demonstrators try to make their point alongside whoever is ignoring the Floyd family's pleas for calm, there is the added risk that is unlike any protest we've ever watched in modern American history, the coronavirus pandemic.

[18:05:07]

CABRERA: Some in the crowds are wearing masks, but as we've seen in these images, many are not. The risk of contagion is no less a threat today than it was three months ago.

CNN has reporters, crews and resources all across America this Saturday to bring you this quickly unfolding test of our nation's strength and system of justice.

Let's go live to Paul Vercammen in Los Angeles. Paul, moments ago we were with you. We saw that tense confrontation between police and protesters and it continues, it appears where you are.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It does, Ana, and in fact, right now, as you can see behind me, they are trying to back people up, and you can see officers are using their batons.

Some reinforcements for police just showed up. So they continue to have sealed off this part of 3rd Street, and I believe that police are going to try to clear the intersection based on them telling us to back up in so many words, saying something is about to go down.

But there are so many protesters here. You can see how thick this is with protesters. They are shoulder to shoulder and all of those people standing on vehicles, almost every one of those vehicles from what we can tell are police vehicle.

So, those people who are stamping on roofs or stamping on windshields are trying to knock them out. It is extremely tense right here.

As we've told you, from time to time, we have seen the firing of rubber bullets, but we should note in most instances we did see guns pointed down into the ground and again, the chant goes up, "Hands up, don't shoot."

And you can see all the signs, the anger percolating over. White silence is compliance, defund the police. A riot is a language of the unheard.

And there goes something, it looks like they are firing and pushing on this area. We're going to move this way and try to give you a glimpse of what is going on as they try to clear this intersection.

And now we've got police swinging their batons.

If you look right here, this woman holding a camera, clearly hurt and here is another flashpoint, protesters trying to hold back other protesters. Rubber bullets going off and police trying to clear the intersection.

And now, more of an effort to back people up. It seems to be the strategy is to try to move people back to Fairfax Avenue.

CABRERA: Paul, as we watch --

VERCAMMEN: I'm sorry, Ana, go ahead.

CABRERA: Now, Paul, as we are watching this, obviously very disturbing to see some of these images. What led up to the escalation to this point today?

VERCAMMEN: So earlier, if you were with us, we were at the intersection of Fairfax and 3rd. And that is a major, major intersection in this part of Los Angeles. It is an artery that connects many parts of the city via service streets.

So, the police officers had set up down here, towards the ocean on 3rd Street, and you can clearly see them shooting these rubber bullets again as they back the crowd up.

The crowd headed down toward the police, the police sealed off the street completely in two places. But this is where the most tension was. This is where the most officers were, as well as the most protesters.

They impeded their progress. They had set up a lot of their vehicles tactically right here and when they went head to head, so to speak, face-to-face, and as you see now even more tension as they try to back that crowd up right there, the protesters and the police squared up.

There wasn't one moment where we saw where someone swung or flung a bottle, but the protesters also started jumping on all of those police cars that were parked here. And as I say, if you look at anybody standing up above the crowd, odds are, and I can't say it for every single one, but most of those are police vehicles.

So, from what we can tell, the attempt is, to move these people back towards the intersection of Fairfax and 3rd, and now we've got swinging batons again just to my left. We're going move over here to try to give you a glimpse of that.

[18:10:10]

VERCAMMEN: They seem to want to try to clear the intersection and move those protesters, that seems to be the objective back towards Pan Pacific Park where this all began as an extremely peaceful, spirited rally, one in which all of the organizers were exhorting the people in the crowd to not resort to violence, to sort of follow in the footsteps of Martin Luther King and voice their opinions loudly, but not resorting to any type of violence.

So, right now, we've got to stand up and let me just show you what a rubber bullet looks like in case you're curious. This is what they have been firing, and in many instances, firing straight into the ground.

We have to say that we have seen that. We have also seen at least one person hit by the rubber bullets. I am going to step out and let you look at this.

Again, chanting "Hands up, don't shoot." And we'll watch and see if they make another attempt to try to, I guess, foot by foot, yard by yard gain more ground here in this part of 3rd Street that is completely blocked off now.

And I don't know, we're going to show you some -- walk over here, Chris. Let me show you what has happened to some of these police vehicles as we get more towards the center of the crowd, and now we've got people getting hit with batons right here.

CABRERA: Paul, this obviously does not look good. Do you feel safe where you and your crew are?

VERCAMMEN: Yes. Because what we did, is we walked behind -- obviously, you see the backs of the officers. We walked behind into what's essentially a box, a box of police officers, forming and using both the storefronts and other walls of officers to our left.

I'll show you in fact. Chris go ahead and first show this vehicle here. This is what has been happening to all of these police vehicles. They have been vandalized. Windshields knocked out.

To this direction, you can see the officers set up over there. They have tried --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back. Stop hitting us. Move back.

VERCAMMEN: We'll sew you this protester. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step back. Stop hitting them.

VERCAMMEN: All right. We're going to move. Hang on just one second. Excuse the --

CABRERA: No, you move -- you stay safe. We're still looking at live pictures.

VERCAMMEN: That's the other end of the box. I am sorry.

CABRERA: Paul, we're staying with you. We could hear that man on that roof saying to the police over that intercom to stop hitting us. Telling the police to step back.

Obviously, we have seen police out there using their batons. But as you point out, the protesters, the people who are in those crowds, at least have vandalize a lot of the police vehicles. We saw broken windows. We saw the vandalism on those vehicles.

I think a lot of people are wondering, how does this de-escalate?

VERCAMMEN: Well, that is the question of the day. Maybe, the question of the week, Ana. How does all of these de-escalate?

As you can see, some of the spirited protesters are walking right up to the police officers who are wearing their visors and they are screaming in their face, and it seems to be when they step too close is when the officers back them up.

I believe, as I said, it seemed to be that there was a tactical strategy to try to take back this intersection, but clearly that is not going to happen right now as shoulder to shoulder, you can see these protesters, and if we can give you a very long view.

Chris, my photographer, go ahead and show where those people are on that city bus way off in the distance. That's Fairfax Avenue. I know some of the -- you had citizens near the Farmer's Market, which it is.

So, they would have to go all the way -- I'm going to estimate that that is 250 yards of having to clear all of these people, and there are thousands, and thousands of them it seems.

And you look right there, this officer is grabbing something out of the other officer's pack. They are armed with rubber bullets. We haven't seen any firing of teargas. But that is basically their strategy, it seems to be, is to fire rubber bullets into the ground in hopes of backing off the protesters, but this just seems like it could be a long, long stalemate here on 3rd Street in Los Angeles.

[18:15:05]

CABRERA: We can see that police officer with a flat tire, a police vehicle, I should say, and obviously and ongoing confrontation happening right now.

VERCAMMEN: Oh no. Now, there are swinging batons again, Ana.

I should note, we've only seen one arrest so far. And I say to you, perhaps they are going to try to gain ground here, foot by foot and there goes another rubber bullet ricocheting.

CABRERA: Paul, as we watch these images, we see a handful of police officers right there, more than a handful, clearly. But you also see dozens and dozens of protesters.

It is only 3:00 in the afternoon there. How many officers are you seeing around?

VERCAMMEN: If I had to count off the top of my head as I describe this for you, they are in a box formation using store fronts to my right as one side of that box. I'll go with 200 and what we'll show you, so start here, Chris and go all the way around.

You've got this skirmish line right here and you see them moving protester back now. Then we have officers who are all along this side of the street.

There is a parking lot over there, and then off in the distance, this is where they sealed off this other group of demonstrators. You have got police officers. There is either an arrest right in front of us, or a detainment.

At times, you don't know if it is an arrest or if they are just detaining somebody, so this person is clearly taken into custody or detained for right now.

Anyway, that's the other side of the box and those officers.

So we will come back this way and show you what's happening with these attempts to move people back and towards that intersection.

But as I pointed to you, off in the distance, it is a long way to get back to Fairfax. And it looks like they are going to possibly fire again.

CABRERA: Paul, we know that last night, there were hundreds --

VERCAMMEN: But as you said, Ana --

CABRERA: Go ahead.

VERCAMMEN: Yes, well, I want to just show you this gentleman on the ledge, he climbed up there.

CABRERA: Do you get the sense, is he leading the protest? Is he an organizer? What do we know about that man?

VERCAMMEN: No I don't know anything about him to be honest. I mean, we know this protest was organized by Black Lives Matter Los Angeles. We know it started in Pan Pacific Park and we know it came down this way.

We definitely want to tell you that it began without any violence of any confrontation, but now, it is just evolved into this and look at this police vehicle just to my left.

Not only did they kick out the windshield, but they pulled up the hood at one point and so clearly, tense situation and we're wondering -- well, it looks clear the strategy is to try to buy real estate, if you will.

CABRERA: Yes, I'm wondering, Paul, getting other --

VERCAMMEN: Now, the man on the bull horn has jumped on to this roof.

CABRERA: Given everything that happened there, you know, 24 hours ago with hundreds of people being arrested. We know there were officers injured. We know in Oakland, there was a Federal officer who was shot.

I just wonder, did they come out today with a new strategy in order to try to prevent what happened last night from happening again today?

VERCAMMEN: That is completely speculation for me. It is unclear if there was a new strategy. I'm sure that they were wanting to make sure that they had a very, very prominent presence in this part of Los Angeles, concerned of course that there would be vandalism.

But in terms of what they said or a new strategy, very unclear. Now, I think one of the cars is burning in the background, as they are really becoming aggressive and moving people back, and we do have a vehicle fire here.

CABRERA: Paul, we see a lot there. There, we can see in an aerial shot overhead as well as we have a split shot right now with your shot and another one.

VERCAMMEN: Yes, it is -- I am sorry to talk over you, Ana. A major move being made to move these people back. We are going to slide to our right. Let's go this way, Chris and get away.

Well, you can see this police car is on fire and you can see the protesters are being moved back.

CABRERA: And we are seeing in the aerial shot, I don't know how much you can see from your vantage point there, Paul, but on the other side, if this is the same burning vehicle that we're watching, it appears that there is not a lot on the other side of that vehicle in effect, is working to disperse the crowd there. Is that what's happening?

[18:20:15]

VERCAMMEN: Yes, that's exactly right. Once this vehicle fire started and people realized that they were getting a batch of this toxic smoke in their face, it seemed like they voluntarily started moving.

The police started moving them back, and so for the first time since you've been live with me, we can actually see open pavement between ourselves and Fairfax Avenue and police are now holding the line behind the burning vehicle.

And by the way, my count is about a dozen police vehicles have been damaged here. Most of them SUVs, but some cruisers as well.

CABRERA: I mean, this takes it to the next level.

VERCAMMEN: So, it's almost as if, yes --

CABRERA: This is clearly a danger to protesters and police.

VERCAMMEN: Absolutely. Anybody around here. And now, we're seeing police go up this sidewalk here and then someone yelled "Hold."

So, what seemed to be an effort to maybe walk towards those protesters is now stopped and now that car goes up and that's why. I mean, thank goodness that nobody was standing next to that car and that everybody got out of that part of the intersection.

CABRERA: Do you know why it caught fire, Paul? VERCAMMEN: Absolutely, no, Ana. I mean, I can tell you that we saw

repeated acts of vandalism against the cars and we saw people, you know, kicking in windshields.

We'll give you your distance. We're asked to back up a little bit here.

We saw lots of acts of vandalism and whether or not someone had some sort of an incendiary device or just what -- no idea.

But they want everybody back as they try to both reckon with a burning vehicle now, as well as clearing this intersection on 3rd Street here in Los Angeles.

I'll describe this as the Fairfax District. It is well known for the Farmer's Market nearby and the Grove Shopping Center. It is considered upscale in many parts of it.

That Pan Pacific Park is probably off the top of my head about a half mile away. That's where it started. The protesters left the park. They came down 3rd Street and then, here it ended at Fairfax.

And there it is, the dark smoky sound of protest, and we're going to move back a little bit here just in case.

CABRERA: That's a very good idea. We trust that you are staying a safe distance away and we appreciate your photographer zooming in to give us a closer look, obviously, but your safety is most important here.

Paul, when we, you know, look at all of this and we saw protesters gathering in multiple groups, it is so horrific to see the damage and violence that we have watched on our air already this afternoon.

What did you hear from protesters as you have been down there covering it today? What was their message and their goal?

VERCAMMEN: The first and primary message, we're going start with what that peaceful protest in Pan Pacific Park. Time and time again we heard "Black Lives Matter." We heard the chants of "George Floyd."

We also heard people say they want all officers involved in the George Floyd death who were on scene to be charged. The other three.

There is also a lot of signs that said, "White silence is violence. That's the first part of this protest. And then it transitioned into the march. The march is going extremely well. It goes right down 3rd Street. Everybody is cooperating. It is peaceful.

They get to the intersection and that is where I think you picked me up of Fairfax and 3rd. They blocked the intersection. This would be something like being right in Downtown Manhattan or San Francisco or Chicago.

It is an extremely critical artery to crisscrossing this part of Los Angeles. In the intersection, things were going fine. We did see protesters

climbing up as we said on to a bus. We saw them getting up on traffic light polls. But there was no violence. We did not see any police go into the intersection.

But when the protesters started down 3rd Street heading towards Santa Monica, the police set up a line and blocked their progress from what we could tell.

[18:25:08]

VERCAMMEN: We didn't see that there was one moment of certain flashpoint or somebody threw a punch or whatever the case may be.

Then there was a line, a police and a line of protesters, and the protesters, many of them began arguing with the police, screaming at the police. That's when there was a lot of expletives, blank the police. As well as just excuse us, we're resetting our camera here.

Light pushing and shoving, and then the shoving became more intense. Then police tried to clear the intersection and that is when things got out of hand.

The protesters, either backed up the police. We can't say if they backed them up for sure or if the police chose to put up a line behind all of these cruisers, and when they set up behind the cruisers, remember, there are thousands of people involved in this. Those cars that were in the line basically were the subject of vandalization.

So, you see the car burning. I'll just go ahead and count as to how many police vehicles are damaged. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, at least, damaged in this intersection.

Obviously they also got hit with all sorts of spray paint, and that police vehicle now is a burning carcass and a former shell of itself. And it looks by the way like we've got most of the protesters backed up towards Fairfax Avenue.

I will say this, and I can't see everywhere around here, but I have not seen any damage, vandalism or looting of any of the buildings that were out here.

It looks like off in the distance just a little left, Chris through the smoke, there is a Trader Joe's. I believe they might have spray painted some of that, but there has not been any windows broken out, at least right here.

And as I said, Ana, and as you well know, when you are on the inside sometimes there are things going on that you can't see, so please let me know if you are see any windows or anything being broken out elsewhere.

But I'm not seeing it right now, and I am as I said, seeing a concerted effort by the police to clear this intersection of Fairfax and 3rd. By the way, this is going to be a monumental task just to get all of these police cars towed, to say the least. Other damaged cars, somebody's popped their tires. That's pretty

obvious if you just look over here to the left and as I said, that one got set on fire. And I'll show you a little more about how big this box is that the police officers have formed.

So, in the direction of the burning car, now a smoke so thick that we can't see towards Fairfax Avenue. But then go this way. We'll give you a long pan. Officers sealing off protesters in this parking lot.

And then down 3rd Street, the other intersection that got blocked by police, at Edinburgh and 3rd, so this is -- we'll call it one long city block that was completely erupting in violence this afternoon in Los Angeles.

And, for now, as dramatic as the image is, this burning car seems to somehow have quelled some of the tensions as the protesters are and the police separated away from it.

CABRERA: You are right and we can see in those overhead shots, the aerials that we were getting from our affiliates in that area, Paul.

It does look like protesters backed, way, way up. However they have not left the area. We can still see in these images of what appears hundreds, at least, of protesters still waiting in that zone, watching what's going to happen next as that police vehicle continues to burn and the smoke billows from that zone.

Paul, please stay safe. We will be back with you in a moment.

You are watching CNN's coverage of the nationwide protest after the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. We are back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:33:52]

CABRERA: I want to welcome you back to CNN's live coverage of protests now happening across the country. These are live images in Los Angeles as we continue to follow this fire that is currently burning in a police vehicle at the height of what was becoming very tense moments in the streets of Los Angeles in the Fairfax neighborhood where police and protesters were confronting each other. And as you can see, somebody or somehow this vehicle was set on fire.

Paul Vercammen has been on scene. We'll go back to him in a moment to find out the very latest on the ground. But at the moment I want to bring in former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson who is here with us. First, Mr. Secretary, what is your reaction to what we're seeing today, not just there in Los Angeles, but what has been a very tense and destructive 24 hours in many cities across the country?

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Ana, there have been two rallying cries from the black community in this country, black lives matter and I can't breathe. This past week, in Minneapolis, we saw, Exhibit A, for why that grievance is real, why that grievance valid. [18:35:01]

And what black America and many white Americans are saying to the rest of the country is we need to be heard. This grievance is real. We saw, yet again, another example of a black man at the hands of the police saying I can't breathe and we saw a representative of our nation's law enforcement with his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck, as if he were an animal and the police officer was a hunter and that his life did not matter.

And I see a number of Americans saying to all the rest of us, what more do you need to know that this grievance is real that this grievance is valid. Now, when it comes to protest, protest is a form of speech, protest is a form of language for those who feel that their voices are not being heard. It is in many, many context legitimate for people who are frustrated and angry and want to be heard. Protests that turn to violence, however, only emboldened and strengthens the other side.

It emboldens law and order, extremism and militancy. It gives those on the other side of the debate the upper hand and cedes the high moral ground. As Martin Luther King used to say, an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind. So tonight as we watch these demonstrations, some of which may turn to violence, I hope that does not happen, but we're seeing some of that now.

We need to remember that whether it's Los Angeles, whether it's Minneapolis, whether it's Hong Kong, protests are a form of speech, but protests that turn to violence, hurt innocent people and cede the moral high ground and overwhelm the underlying message.

CABRERA: You're right and it's important to reiterate that. And when Consider the totality of what we're witnessing, you're a great voice to have on our air, because this is a National Security issue right now. It's not just a protest spiraling out of control in one city. We're talking about multiple cities. Seven people were shot during protests that turned violent in Louisville, Kentucky, a protester intentionally hit by a car in Denver.

One police officer in Oakland shot and killed. We saw all of that overnight, destruction from Portland, Oregon to Detroit, Michigan. Dozens have been arrested in New York City and in Los Angeles overnight. And again, today, it's just the beginning in some places like Los Angeles of these protests picking up. Is the nation reaching a boiling point right now?

JOHNSON: We have not seen widespread protests like this in a very, very long time and it reflects the level of frustration and anger at instances of excessive force by our nation's law enforcement that goes too far, that goes way too far. And people are frustrated, people are angry, the grievance is valid and they need to be heard.

They need to find a vehicle to be heard. As I said before, a protest is a form of speech by those who feel they're not being heard. But we have to also recognize at a national level and city by city, that protests that turn to violence overwhelm the message and see the moral high ground and give strength and comfort to those on the other side of the debate.

Regrettably, our national leadership right now is unwilling and/or unable to deal with this. This is a time where we need national leadership to call for unity and to help bind the wounds that are dividing us at the moment.

CABRERA: What do you make of how the national leadership has responded so far from what we've heard from the President?

JOHNSON: Well, messages like if there's looting there will be shooting is highly, highly counterproductive in this very, very tense circumstance. A president who delivers like that, a message like that is talking to only one segment of an audience when in situations like this a president, national leadership needs to be talking to everyone, needs to be a voice for reason, for calm to give legitimacy to those grievances that are real and this one is.

And at the same time, encourage us to come together and try to have as difficult as it is, to try to have a conversation about these issues in a civil manner consistent with American values.

CABRERA: What do you think needs to happen in order to de escalate this situation? The President has gone as far as to say we have our military ready, willing and able if they ever want to call our military, that's a quote from something he said today.

[18:40:02]

He says that the local and state leaders they've got to be tough is what he is saying. What can be done in order to deescalate and also to get a sense of security, when so many of these images are sending the exact opposite message?

JOHNSON: Well, first, the latest tweet. The President does not have the unlimited authority to call out the military in a domestic situation like this. There's a law called Posse Comitatus, which prevents the active duty U.S. military from engaging in law enforcement.

What has to happen now is we have to take a hard look, community by community, at law enforcement, at police forces that exist in communities like Minneapolis. It's not just a matter of training. It's a matter of culture as well.

In far too many communities, I expect we are regrettably recruiting laws enforcement officers who want to be the bully in a neighborhood or want to be the badass in a neighborhood and not those who want to serve and protect our communities. And of course, we need police forces that reflect our communities as well, it's been documented that when we do those things, they can be success stories.

So law enforcement in this country really does need to take a step back and take a hard look at itself. The images this week were horrible, not just of the assailant, but the other officers were standing by with their hands at their side literally doing nothing while they watched one of their fellow officers snuff the life out of a civilian in handcuffs. And so, in my view that is as offensive as the actual act that happened here.

CABRERA: Before I let you go, Mr. Secretary, I heard Professor Cornel West on our air last night commenting on how even after having a black president, a black Attorney General and you yourself serving as the Department of Homeland Security Secretary in the last administration, holding these positions of power, that transformative change to the systemic and the deep rooted racial and justices, that still hasn't happened in this country, as many would have hoped or perhaps expected. Why do you think that is?

JOHNSON: Well, I'm certainly not going to get into a debate with the professor as a former member of the Obama administration. I will say this, however, when we elected our nation's first black president in 2008, all of us, many of us saw this as a major step forward toward a more perfect union and we hoped that it would go a long way to eradicating racial injustice and racism in this country.

But that is not something that can be achieved in the three years of a black Secretary of Homeland Security. The five years of a black AG or the eight years of a president. It takes a continuum of dedication at the national level. And one president cannot eliminate the culture and the racist attitudes that may exist in law enforcement communities across our country in Minneapolis and in Ferguson, Missouri and other places.

It takes long-term dedicated leadership. Regrettably, I believe we're taking a step back within that regard.

CABRERA: Former Homeland Security Secretary, Jeh Johnson, thank you very much for taking the time sharing your thoughts and insights.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Much more coverage of the protests. We are seeing nationwide troubling scenes playing out across America. We'll be right back. You're watching CNN.

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[18:48:14]

CABRERA: I'm going to take you to Philadelphia now. Live pictures from the scene and I apologize earlier, I identified this as Baltimore. It is Philadelphia which we are looking at right now. That city is seeing more unrest and again I apologize for the earlier mistake of misidentifying the location.

Protesters here have now vandalized a statue, we are told, of former mayor and Police Commissioner Frank Rizzo in front of the city's municipal services building. That is some of what is happening right now on the ground in Philadelphia. Let me bring in the former Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey. Commissioner, what's your reaction to seeing these images?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, obviously it's troubling, not just Philadelphia, but when you look at L.A. and you look at other cities right now. I mean, it's not even dark yet and usually when you start to get this kind of activity, it's at nightfall. So this is very troubling. I think it's going to be a very, very long night.

CABRERA: If you were still the Philadelphia Police Commissioner right now, what would you be telling your officers?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, we need a measured response. Obviously, you have to have enough resources, enough personnel. The Rizzo statue is always a target whenever there's a protest, so that's not surprising that they would gather down there plus right across the street is City Hall and the municipal services building right there, which is where the statue is located.

So that's a common, almost a ground zero, if you will, for many protest. But what's important is they have sufficient resources on the scene to make sure that your officers have a measured response and watch them very carefully, because it's hard to be out there on that line having people yell at you, scream at you, throw stuff at you and so forth.

So you have to relieve people on a regular basis. Pull it off with fresh people up there and constantly rotate best you can.

[18:50:04]

Now, when you get a situation it really gets out of control, maybe you can't do all of that, but those are the kinds of things that you try to do just to make sure that your officers don't overreact.

CABRERA: We've heard the Mayor of Philadelphia has instituted a mandatory citywide 8 pm to 6 am curfew. I know other cities have started to do this as well, Denver, for example. Obviously, Minneapolis and St. Paul. Should more cities be doing that and how do you make sure those curfews work?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, it depends on the city. You don't want to do it if you don't have to, but obviously, you want to try to keep the streets as calm as possible. Most of the problems occur at night, so eight o'clock is a reasonable period of time to establish a curfew.

But again, how do you enforce it? I mean, you take a look at Minneapolis last night, for an example, they had a curfew but there were so many people there. I mean, trying to enforce it was near impossible. So you have to be realistic about what you're able to accomplish, but if you have sufficient resources, then you can do everything you can to really get people off the street.

The key is that, the people who are there to protest in earnest about a legitimate grievance, what happened to Mr. Floyd should not have happened. That is real. There is a need for reform. I agree with all that.

But when it starts to turn into a riot, when you start getting windows broken, when you start to get fires set, when you started getting all that, then it turns from a legitimate protest where people are really listening and you need to have your voice heard to something totally different. And unfortunately, there is a group of people that come to these things that have no intention of doing anything else other than causing problems.

They could care less about what took place in Minneapolis. They're there to cause damage. It's a small group of people, but they're there nonetheless.

CABRERA: OK. Commissioner Ramsey, obviously, you will be with us as a resource throughout the hours. Thank you, for your information. Still ahead, we are going to go live to Minneapolis. The site, of course, where this all began. You're watching CNN. I'm Ana Cabrera. Thank you for being with us. Stay right there.

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[18:56:18]

CABRERA: Welcome back to CNN's live coverage of protests across the nation following the death of George Floyd, leaders in Minnesota where all this happened this afternoon as potential protesters to stay home tonight after, of course, nights of violence and destruction. But we are seeing huge crowds already assembling in Minneapolis. That's where George Floyd's killing happened earlier this week sparking these nationwide protests.

Miguel Marquez joins us live from the scene. Miguel, what's happening there right now?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is yet another peaceful protest in Minneapolis right now. And what happens tonight is almost beside the point. I want to show you exactly where we are. I know things are getting violent in other parts of the country, but people here want people everywhere across the country to understand that this is about changing things in a very basic way.

Pete (ph), come over here. This is the very, very spot where Mr. Floyd died. This is the spot. It's become hallowed ground here. There are thousands of protesters who have been demonstrators, people who are out here calling for justice all afternoon and we'll probably be out here for several more hours. I don't know how police are going to deal with this. I don't know whether they are going to go home or not.

There is great anger, clearly, in Minneapolis. There is great anger in many places across this country. But the speakers who have been up here all afternoon have been asking for peace, for peaceful protest. People went on one knee at one point. They raise their hands. They shouted his name. They have been doing that all afternoon.

The Governor here in Minneapolis saying that despite the violence that 80% of the individuals who incited the violence were from out of the states says that they are making arrests of people who are from out of the state. The St. Paul Mayor said that everybody that they arrested from two nights ago was from out of the state. So there are certainly people here who are taking advantage of an opportunity, but they want to be clear that tonight is the line they have brought more verses in. They are begging people to stay home after 8 pm tonight. They don't

want to see a repeat of what has happened in the last two nights again and they fear, and other cities fear, that if they see it happen here, it will happen there as well.

So Minneapolis, black, white, young, old, everybody coming together in this city right now asking, begging the country their friends, their neighbors, those who support them to bring down the level of protest, but do not loot, do not resort to violence that will not help their cause, Ana.

CABRERA: It's such an encouraging scene, really beautiful scene to see how those protesters in your live shot, Miguel, are handling this whole situation with the flowers on the ground, with their signs that are speaking volumes.

Have you had a chance to speak to some of those protesters and what is their plan in terms of today you talk about the curfew and the Governor trying to sort of reset the situation there on the ground? Are protesters planning to end what this demonstration at a specific time? What do you know?

MARQUEZ: Most of the people here are planning to go home and respect the curfew, most. The vast majority of them are. It is not clear what's going to happen here. The problem that they have had in Minneapolis and across the state around the state is that the protest have been in so many locations at the same time.

[19:00:03]

But this is what happened last night. They brought in more forces. There were so many protests in so many different areas.