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Don Lemon Tonight
Curfew Imposed In Many Cities; Protesters Go On With Their March Despite Curfews; Outrage Spreading After Peaceful Protesters Near White House Tear-Gassed So President Trump Can Stage Church Photo-Op; President Trump Threatens Military Force While Peaceful Protesters Are Pushed Back From White House; Violators Of Curfew In Los Angeles Are Being Arrested. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired June 01, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And what they're doing is, Don, they want to keep demonstrating through this curfew. So, you've got a lot of people here who are saying that's what they are going to do.
But you also have -- excuse me -- you also have a number of folks here who say, look, we want this to remain a peaceful demonstration. We don't want the message to get lost. But look, it's now 11 o'clock. If you're essential you are allowed to be out in the streets. If you are non-essential, you're supposed to be home. So, at this point, you've got folks who are not obeying the curfew and continuing to march.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Jason Carroll, standby. Standby, everyone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
It is the top of the hour. It's 11 p.m. here on the East Coast. Eleven p.m. here in New York City where I am. And a curfew is in effect in New York City right now. You can see throngs of people are still out in force. Saying that they are going to defy this curfew really set by the mayor and the city of New York.
You heard the President of the United States threatening military force if cities didn't calm down. To send them out on -- to send military out on American citizens.
We have been speaking to our Jason Carroll who's in Brooklyn. Our Shimon Prokupecz is in standing by in Manhattan. These pictures you're looking out now this aerial shot courtesy of our affiliate WCBS. Not exactly sure where they are in this behemoth of a city of New York.
But again, there were -- all of these protestors were supposed to be off the streets of New York City by 11 p.m. It is now 11.01 and counting and these protestors are still on the street. What we're wondering is what's going to happen? Will police be detaining them, arresting them, citing them or what? We don't know. Maybe allowing them to continue -- to continue to protest.
CNN's Jason Carroll joins us now from Brooklyn. Again, with the very latest. So, Jason, talk to me, where are you and what's going on?
CARROLL: Well, right now, we're still making our way towards the Barclays Center. The crowd is sort of bottlenecked here. And again, still waiting to see if some of these people are finally going to start going home and peel off and go home. Or will they continue towards the Barclays Center which is what you're hearing folks here on the crowd saying they're going to do.
Basically, what you got are a couple of different factions here within this group of demonstrators, Don. You've got some who say, look, we want to get the message out. We don't want to see any vandalism or looting like we've seen in other parts of the city. We want the message here to be clear. Wanting the message to be focused on police brutality.
But having said that, you've got also a number of people who say look, we want that message to get out but we're not going to -- we're not going to honor this curfew. We're going to keep having our message heard. We're going to keep marching throughout the night. And so that's what we're experiencing here so far.
Again, it has been peaceful. We have seen police. A number of police along this route that we've been walking on. So far, no arrests. And again, a number of the protestors when I say to them, so how are you going to play this going out? And what they are going to do is they said, we're going to watch to see what the police do. And we will respond in kind.
So, take that with a grain of salt. We're going to see what happens. But again, it's now just past 11 o'clock. The curfew is in full effect. And we've got thousands of people here who are still marching heading towards Barclays Center in Brooklyn.
LEMON: OK. I want you to standby, Jason. We are keen to know your progress and what's happening. I just want to get to Brian Stelter. Jason, I'm going to get right back to you. I want to get to Brian Stelter. Brian Stelter, you are in midtown as I understand, our senior media correspondent.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
LEMON: And I know, listen, downtown and midtown and the Soho and the village, and so on and so forth. The looting went on. I understand that you are in midtown and you are seeing similar things happened this evening.
STELTER: That's right. Pretty widespread looting, Don, in midtown especially the eastern portions of midtown Manhattan. We're talking about areas near Trump Tower along Fifth Avenue, Madison Avenue. I witnessed an eyeglass shop on Lexington Avenue being looted.
In some cases, just windows being smashed. In other cases, stores are being broken into. This has been going on for at least two hours, Don. I've just arrived back home but I'm still hearing lots of siren. Between 9 and 11 p.m. it was a real sense of anarchy on the streets in midtown Manhattan along Park Avenue, Madison, Fifth and Sixth Avenue. We know areas around Harold Square near the Macy's flagship store have
been broken into. There been some fires and trash cans. But by and large what this was, was wilding as police describe it. You know, young people on the streets committing acts of vandalism. Some urging their friends not to do it. But very much a -- by the hundreds. You're seeing some of these pictures on television now. Hundreds of people swarming the streets entering stores.
Look, Don, property damage is nowhere near as important as physical loss of life. Protestors are right to be speaking out against loss of life. But I just want you to know the property damage is widespread.
[23:05:01]
You know, we're talking about a neighborhood of city that's been shut down due to the pandemic. Stores have been closed. Now those stores are having to board up. Some of these workers are trying to board up shops as fast as the looters arrive.
We're talking about Best Buy stores, some high-end boutiques on Fifth Avenue, et cetera. And I just heard mention some of this very close to Trump Tower. I was watching windows being smashed near Trump Tower tonight. There's a bodega that opened on my corner, Don, after being closed for two months today. And of course, now that blocked has been damaged as well.
LEMON: Brian --
STELTER: But the point is, we are seeing widespread looting in Manhattan tonight.
LEMON: Standby for me, Brian, because I want you to continue to work with me and help me out with these pictures. You know, it's recognizable when you look at it but you just can't put your finger on exactly where it is. I think this is coming to us from --
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Broadway.
LEMON: -- Broadway. Midtown. And you can see there's looters now they are running. Running because police are showing up. I would imagine. But these are areas coming to us from --
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: That's what I was witnessing. Yes.
LEMON: This is where you were?
STELTER: This is a cat and mouse game.
LEMON: And this is what you were seeing?
STELTER: This is nearby. This is a real cat and mouse game with the police and the vandals, Don. The police are protecting certain parts of the city. They are stationed outside cathedrals and big buildings and banks and police precincts.
But I got to be honest, Don. Between 9 and 11 p.m. I thought they were outnumbered. I think there was an attempt to make sure there were no major fires set. But this is very much a fluid situation in midtown. Mostly the eastern part of midtown Manhattan. We have seen some looting, some windows smashed on edges of Times Square and in the Diamond district. But a lot of this was along Lexington and Madison and other parts of eastern midtown Manhattan.
LEMON: You know what, Brian? It looks to me as if -- just watching, having watched some of this on television.
STELTER: Yes.
LEMON: It looks like the looters get in, they mix into the protesters and get a little bit ahead of the protesters --
STELTER: That is what so tragic.
LEMON: -- are behind the protesters. And just before the protesters come, right, they go in and they steal things and then they run away or mix in with the protesters or just after the protests pass --
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: That's what so tragic.
LEMON: -- pass --
STELTER: Right.
LEMON: -- they go in and they do the same thing. Go on, please.
STELTER: Yes. Because we're seeing these beautiful pictures from Brooklyn, New York. People protesting, you know, in their -- with their civic right.
I know that the curfew is in effect but the curfew is mostly irrelevant to these young people who have decided to be out tonight. Yes, police are shutting down streets trying to stop traffic but we're seeing what happens.
What I witness, Don, is you've got people out there who are taking advantage of the situation, who will put their hands up in the air when they see police officers but will then engage in reckless behavior and vandalism when the police officers are gone. And that is so disappointing for this movement, this I can't breathe movement which needs every individual it can have on the side of the peaceful protesters.
LEMON: Yes. Well, the mayor had said no curfew until tonight. He said he wasn't going to do a curfew and then decided to do one tonight. The governor of New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo was on our air earlier and said no thank you to the use of military or National Guard in New York City as of now. Said no, thank you to the President of the United States. Listen, this is a curfew that's being violated. It is -- it's not the
end of the world but it is really awful for people who own property and businesses and those businesses are being looted, again, not by the protestors who are out in the streets but from the pillagers and the looters who are mixing in with those legitimate protestors --
STELTER: Right.
LEMON: -- and are stealing things. And this a Nike store because you can see that the Nike, Nike headquarters in midtown. And you can see folks just passing there.
Standby, Brian. I want to get to CNN's Kaitlan Collins who is joining us now. And I also want to get bring in CNN's political analyst David Gregory as well along with her. But Kaitlan, I'm going to get to you first. What is happening in D.C. tonight after the president's announcement earlier today?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, I want to note something for you that we've just noticed as we're overlooking Lafayette Square. That's where you saw the president walk through earlier as he was going to that church to take those photos.
They are now constructing a fence on the edge of Lafayette Square. Normally, there is not one. When there are times they want to block off the whole square, they just put up those barricades that are short, about the size of a bike, bike rack, you would say.
Now we are watching them construct this fence. It looks to be about, I guess about eight feet tall. And it is this tall black fence outlining the edges of the park. We're going to try to zoom in on it here so that you can see it.
And it's really notable. Because this, I have never seen this here in all the time that I've lived here in Washington. And that is exactly where those protestors were earlier today before they were forced out by tear gas and flash bangs. And now they are constructing this large fence outside of Lafayette Square outside the White House.
[23:10:01]
LEMON: David, I want to bring you in and talk about the scenes that you're seeing all over the country. But specifically, let's talk about New York tonight. This is what president -- that the president wanted governors to dominate. Right? What was happening here, what's happening now here in New York and some places.
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, and it's -- I mean, it's really sad to see. We have to be able to separate these scenes out. And these stories out. And so, what we're covering live what's happening in the streets of New York is not a protest in the name of George Floyd. It is not part of a movement. It's lawlessness. It's crime.
Yes, maybe there's people there who are just frustrated and they're taking out their frustration. We have no idea. But we know that people have come in and taken over what are peaceful, meaningful, purposeful protests and are committing crimes. What does it have to do when you go loot someone's business or destroy someone's business?
This has happened throughout in a kind of a checker board way throughout the district of Columbia over the last couple of days. That's not the aim. And yet, when there were peaceful protests where Kaitlan is, near Lafayette Park tonight then you have the police using tear gas to clear it for the president's photo op which is offensive. Which makes no sense.
So, we've got different layers of this story going on. And we've got to be able to hold them in our head at the same time.
LEMON: When you heard, David, when you heard the president say what he said today and what he did today, what -- you've covered the White House. You are a big, you know, political player journalist in Washington. What did you think?
GREGORY: You know, I just thought he is so out of balance. You know, he began his remarks referencing and condemning the killing of George Floyd. But it almost felt like short tripped as he went on to stamped his feet in effect and say we won't put up with this lawlessness, we won't put with -- again, I think falsely describing the majority of these protests is being taken over by mobs and comparing it so domestic terrorism.
That's what I'm saying we have to be able to separate these things out. So many of these protests have been with purpose and have been peaceful. And they get mixed in with people who are not protesting who are actually destroying property.
But he wants to align himself with one thing. And that is he is going to kick butt around the country and clear the streets and if you're not doing that, then you're not being tough enough. That's not what a president does.
What the president needs to do is calm down -- he's got to be to speak to multiple constituents at once. He's got to be to speak to the pain, he's got to be able to speak to the trauma, the anger, the frustration. The sense of why should we play within the rules when the law and order that's meant to protect us isn't protecting us on our streets?
And at the same time say to people who are watching these images on television, what does this have to do with George Floyd when you see the destruction of businesses.
Instead, he just came down with the one. Suggesting it was domestic terror. And it's just so political. It's meant not to bring the country together but to appeal to one element. His political base that is looking at this like we're in 1968.
And Richard Nixon at the Republican convention saying he's the law and order president. And that what you're seeing on your streets, you know, the protests and like that that's not America. Well, it is America. It's America today going through a deadly pandemic. Forty million people out of work. And people of color around this
country who are being abused in their communities it makes people really frustrated and angry and sad.
And it's not just people of color who feel that way. We are all feeling that way. Just as we're feeling sad and sickened by looting in the streets of New York or in Washington, D.C., or other communities.
LEMON: Very well said. Thank you very much. I appreciate that, David Gregory.
You're watching live pictures now from very near Madison Square Garden in midtown Manhattan. The curfew tonight started at 11 p.m. just about 14 minutes ago here.
I need to tell you that tomorrow the curfew will be extended except Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York says the city's curfew is going to be extended until Tuesday as more violence and property destruction occur in New York City on Monday.
Tuesday's curfew is set to begin at 8 p.m. according to a tweet from de Blasio. The curfew began at 11 p.m. tonight, 8 p.m. tomorrow night. We will see and we'll continue to move on here as we continue to watch these pictures.
We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.
[23:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're back now with our breaking news. There's Louisville, Kentucky. And we have been seeing Louisville scenes there play out in Louisville, Kentucky since the beginning of this. This is the seventh night of these protests. It looks like some of the protestors there talking to police. And this looks fairly peaceful which is good.
But we did see a number of clashes with Louisville on Friday of last week and even earlier in the week. And over the weekend as well. Many of the cities are on curfew or under curfew orders. New York City as a matter of fact just about 20 minutes ago. That curfew went into effect but there are still a number of protestors on the street.
I believe that Louisville may have a curfew. I'm not exactly sure. There's so many cities with so many curfews. It's hard to keep track in your head. Producers, if you can check it out and let me know.
But nonetheless, they -- people are still out. And lots of horn honking that I can hear of now. But, so far, from my vantage point, at least where we are, not many conflicts, not much of a conflict going on.
[23:20:02]
President Trump claiming that he is an ally of peaceful protestors at the same time peaceful protestors were tear gassed just outside of the White House gates.
So, joining me now to talk about it is Tamika Mallory, the co-leader of the National Women's March, Mike Griffin, the senior organizer of Community Change Action. Sadiqa Reynolds, the president of the Louisville Urban League, and Tay Anderson, director of a Denver school board.
I'm so happy to have all of you on. Thank you so much.
TAMIKA MALLORY, CO-LEADER, NATIONAL WOMEN'S MARCH: Thank you.
LEMON: It was a -- trying to get everybody --
(CROSSTALK)
TAY ANDERSON, DIRECTOR, DENVER SCHOOL BOARD: Thank you for having me.
LEMON: Trying to get everybody on. It was amazing. And I saw you guys at the press conference the other day. And I was like man, man, man, we got to get them on the show. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Tay, let me start with you. How are you feeling tonight about the direction that these protests have taken?
ANDERSON: I really have been trying to promote peaceful protests. I'm here in the city in county of Denver but we have had some agitators that are spray painting Black Lives Matter part of the movement but they're actually allies or supposed to be allies in the fight. And we didn't ask for that to be done in the city in the county of Denver.
LEMON: How would you handle looters, Tay, who showed up at your protest?
ANDERSON: We told them we said hey, if you're here to loot, if you're here to and destroy, go home. We're not here to play these games with you because you're not going to destroy the city in the name of Black Lives Matter and then we are going to be the ones that feel the blame. And that's what the media is going to say is that Black Lives Matter protest did this.
LEMON: Tamika, what are you feeling tonight when you look at what's happening in cities around the country?
MALLORY: Well, to answer your question, how I would handle looters. I would arrest the cops so we can get people off the streets and into their homes and be able to determine who maybe looters, who maybe criminals, and who are actually protestors.
But right now, everyone is on the streets together because the police officers who killed George Floyd have not been arrested. The police officers who killed Breanna Taylor have not been arrested and the men who killed Arbery, I mean, Ahmaud Arbery while they have been arrested, they still have not been brought to full justice.
I think we got to have real conversation in America about what's happening here. The looting and the violence that and the vandalism and all of that is one part of the issue. But the true violence started when a man was killed on camera, and yet a week later we still do not have full -- we don't have anything that even looks like justice.
LEMON: I think though -- by the way, just to clarify. When you said arrest the police -- you would arrest the officers, you mean the police officers who were involved with George Floyd and his death?
MALLORY: But you know what? Actually, Don, not really. I mean, police officers who have taken innocent lives all over America. Because I don't think is just about George Floyd what we're seeing happening on our streets.
LEMON: So, go ahead, Sadiqa, I see you shaking your head. Jump in.
SADIQA REYNOLDS, PRESIDENT, LOUISVILLE URBAN LEAGUE: I think she's exactly right. It is about years and years and years of a lack of access to justice. It's a lack of accountability on the part of the police department. It's about good officers not calling out the bad ones. It's about black people feeling like their lives don't matter and is having no accountability.
And the other part of it that we cannot forget if there were no videos, if there was no video in George Floyd's case he would have been characterized as some horrible criminal. He resisted arrest. They couldn't control him. They had to do it. He killed himself.
If there were no video in Ahmaud Arbery, with that happening. Because really, it's not even just about what police are doing. I mean, this stuff is happening on the street is about white people not wanting to hear us, to see us and feel our pain. That's what this is about.
And so, you can't keep pushing that down and pushing that down and thinking that it's never going to boil over. Our cities are boiling over because people are in pain. They cannot continue to be ignored.
No mother, imagine. I imagine Breonna Taylor's mother. You know, you make that call and you say, baby, when you get home from work, call me. COVID-19. Your child is working. Taking care of people. She's on the front line. She's risking her life. She says, mama, I'm home and lays in her bed and now she's dead. And nobody is going -- nobody has been held accountable? It's unacceptable.
LEMON: And I did that because every --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: And then you also --
LEMON: Hang on, Tay, hang on. We all have that call. I mean, look, I'm an old man. And my mom still if I don't call her to let her know that I'm home she still calls and texts. You didn't let me know that you're home. Are you home? What's going on?
And I'll get text after text after text until I wake up in the middle of the night and say mom, I fell asleep. I'm sorry, I didn't text you. Yes, I did make it home.
[23:25:03]
But just standby because I want to ask Sadiqa something. The police chief in your city was fired today. Talk to me about that.
REYNOLDS: The police chief in my city was allowed to resign a couple of week, I guess, a week of two ago. I can't even remember. So quite frankly, I was under the impression that the conversation went like, listen, we're going to fire you unless you resign.
But I guess that wasn't it. Until today was the last day and the mayor decided he would cut the police chief. That's fine. We need a new police chief for sure. But we've got to handle these officers. We've got to have accountability for the officers. They need to be terminated and prosecuted.
LEMON: Yes. Mike, I don't know if you can see here but we several arrests or at least at this moment. We don't know what they're going to do but people are being detained. This is Oakland, California.
I want to ask you, Mike, you can weigh in on whatever you want but just answer this part of my question and then talk about what you want.
MIKE GRIFFIN, SENIOR ORGANIZER, COMMUNITY CHANGE ACTION: OK.
LEMON: The president saying that he, you know, he'll call in military, the military if governors don't dominate. That's a quote. "Dominate the streets." How are people supposed to peacefully protest if he is threatening the escalation of force here?
GRIFFIN: You know, part of our First Amendment right in America is to be able to peacefully protest. Right? The only way black folks in this country can get white people to listen is by protesting and by voting. So what Donald Trump is doing a not only front to like, America, it's a front to like, black folks' freedom.
We need to be able to protest in this country, for white people to be able to listen to us. Why? Because there are systemic problems that are happening in this country.
I have sat here in this apartment for three months, Don, and I've watched you explain to the nation that black people, the four of us, five of us are on this show, are more likely to get COVID and die. Not because black people are somehow inherently different than white people. But because the structures in this country that have been set up that makes me more likely to die from it.
We need to attack the structures of what's happening. We can put police officers on every corner in the street of Minneapolis. What's happening in New York City is exactly what happened in Minneapolis. They can escalate with police. They can escalate with a curfew. These are Band-Aid solutions.
LEMON: Yes. GRIFFIN: And unless we fix these big problems long term, we'll going to be back here in here in three months and six months or a year when I'm the next person to die or my next brother or my nephew the next person to die.
LEMON: I want you guys to standby because I just want to get to Oakland real quick. So, hold on, hold on a minute. Let's get to Oakland, California right now. That's where we find CNN's Dan Simon. Dan, what are we seeing on our screens here?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Don. We have several dozen protestors being arrested. Police have warned them that they were in violation of the curfew. And now these folks are being taken into custody. You can see behind me all of these protestors lined up against the wall. You can see the police officers are talking to them.
Police officers had told them repeatedly that if they did not evacuate the streets or disperse by 8 p.m., local time that they would in fact be arrested. And that is what is happening right now.
This follows, Don, a very peaceful protest that we saw this afternoon where we saw hundreds of youth throughout Oakland marching throughout the streets. There was a rally at a local high school then they came downtown. And then you had several of these folks who joined in the rally. These do not appear to be young people. At least not high school students that the folks who organized the rally earlier.
And as you can see now, they are just trying to get the streets, you know, evacuated trying to get everybody to disperse. And it looks like they're going to be here for quite a while, Don.
LEMON: All right. Dan Simon in Oakland. And this is going to play out throughout America tonight and for the coming days. I just want to get back to Tamika, Mike, Sadiqa, and Tay.
And listen, our time is short because of all of this that's going on. But I want to thank all of you for the work that you do. I invite you to come back any time, please. And continue to be safe. And keep up the fight. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
MALLORY: Thank you, Don.
REYNOLDS: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
GRIFFIN: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
LEMON: A seventh night of protests tonight over the death of George Floyd in custody, in police custody. That, as protests are -- tear protesters, I should say, are tear gassed near the White House so the president can stage a photo op. How it happened, next.
[23:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A stunning scene in Washington this afternoon. Military-style trucks rolling through the White House complex and on to Pennsylvania Avenue filled with National Guard troops. Those are right before police fired tear gas on peaceful protestors. CNN's Dana Bash has the very latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Demonstrations at Lafayette Park across from the White House peaceful until this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): All of a sudden, they're eyeball to eyeball.
BASH (voice-over): Law enforcement in riot gear approach the barrier. Protesters on the other side hands up in the air, chanting, don't shoot. But that's exactly what they did, shooting tear gas and rubber bullets. These horrifying sounds heard in the White House Rose Garden where the president starts to speak.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am your president of law and order, and an ally of all peaceful protesters.
[23:35:02]
BASH (voice-over): The real time split screen tells a different story. Peaceful protesters forcibly moved. The president mostly sidestepped the frustration and despair triggered by George Floyd's death at the knee of a white police officer, instead condemning violence in cities across the country.
D. TRUMP: These are acts of domestic terror. The destruction of innocent life and the spilling of innocent blood is an offense to humanity and a crime against god. America needs creation, not destruction.
BASH (voice-over): And a warning to governors and mayors where protests are erupting, not coincidentally largely run by Democrats.
D. TRUMP: If a city or a state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States Military and quickly solve the problem for them.
BASH (voice-over): Then the reason peaceful protesters were forcibly moved became more clear, to make way for the president to stage a photo op.
D. TRUMP: Now, I'm going to pay my respects to a very, very special place. Thank you very much.
BASH (voice-over): A walk across the street for the cameras, aide in tow, through Lafayette Park. Destination: historic St. John's Church, where presidents have prayed since James Madison. But this president did not come to pray. A fire damaged part of it the night before, a useful backdrop.
D. TRUMP: We have a great country.
BASH (voice-over): He didn't use many words, but they weren't necessary. The image, holding up a bible in front of that church was what he wanted to convey. Inviting up staff, all white, perhaps not part of the script he intended, but a stark visual nonetheless.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Don, one of the reasons the president was so eager to get out of the White House is because of the reporting that he was in a bunker on Friday, and he was concerned, according to our colleague Kevin Liptak, that that made him look weak. And so one of the reasons he wanted to get out was to try to counter that image.
And another thing I should tell you is that the White House is insisting that the protesters were moved as part of a larger effort to expand the perimeter near and around the White House in advance of the 7:00 p.m. curfew here in Washington. Don?
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you, Dana.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: I appreciate that and nice try for them on their part. Thank you, Dana. I appreciate it.
BASH: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Joining me now is CNN Presidential Historian, Douglas Brinkley and CNN Political Analyst, Astead Herndon. I appreciate both of you joining us. Thank you so much.
So listen gentlemen, Astead, you first, what happened in Washington today? It was -- I mean, it was extraordinary. The president says that he is the president of the law and order. But -- is what we saw chaos? A president who is -- I don't know -- at his most chaotic?
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It is the most chaotic in this law and order. I mean, I think what we have seen from the White House today was what we have seen from the White House for the last four years.
Not a president who is interested in uniting the country, not a president who is interested in kind of taking the most of what will be the most logical or constructive action, one who is interested in kind of making a political point. He takes the bible after that --
LEMON: Astead, I need you to standby. Pardon me. I need to get to Kyung Lah for some breaking news. Kyung Lah is in Los Angeles. Kyung, I understand there are arrests where you are. Take it away. What do you have?
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. You know, this is on Sunset Boulevard and the center of Hollywood, Don. And this is what we are looking at. I'm going to have my cameraman, Jordan, kind of zoom in here because we have to be at a bit of a distance. But these are people who have violated the curfew.
You can see they have their hands behind them, their hands are zip tied, and law enforcement has them looking at plywood. Now, why is the plywood there? That business has put up the plywood to try to protect it because there were reports of these protests coming straight down -- straight through Hollywood.
And so what you're looking at -- it's a little difficult for me to exactly count how many people are here, but definitely dozens of people. We don't know if they were just wondering about. But, you know, I don't see any signs. I don't know how they got here.
But you can see for yourself the police at this time here in Los Angeles taking this curfew very seriously. When we were walking up here, we could -- you know, we heard police cars. Officers in their squad cars are shouting out that it's a curfew, that your car will be impounded.
[23:40:01]
LAH: You will be arrested. And this group, at least, Don, it certainly looks like they potentially could be loaded on to a bus and be ticketed. We just don't know exactly at this point how law enforcement is going to handle them. But dozens of people here on Sunset Boulevard in the center of Hollywood with their faces against plywood and their hands zip tied for violating curfew here in Los Angeles.
Now, we were in the middle of a march for hours. We walked with protesters. And it was largely, largely peaceful. There were -- I couldn't even count, hundreds and hundreds of people. I couldn't see the beginning nor the end of the march. And that was peaceful.
There are reports of some looting here in the Hollywood area and other parts of Los Angeles. We don't know if the people here that you see behind me are connected at all to the looting. But certainly for violating curfew, they can be ticketed and possibly and, you know --
LEMON: Possibly taken in.
LAH: Certainly -- potentially loaded on to a bus and taken away.
LEMON: Kyung Lah, thank you for your reporting. Kyung Lah is reporting live from Los Angeles with the scene there. I want to get back to Astead Herndon and Douglas Brinkley.
Astead, I want to bring you back in and finish your thought. Pardon me for that. I asked you about what happened in Washington today. Was it the president was trying to establish law and order? But was it -- I think my question was, was it him at his most chaotic? HERNDON: Yeah, and I think that you're hitting on the right point there. This is a president that has kind of bathes in chaos, a president that has not shown interest in being the kind of unifying figure or saying the things that sometimes even his own advisers have urged him to do. That has not really been a role that he is interested in playing.
The one that he has done has been the one that is about the political show. We saw another one of those today. What was the really striking thing about that instance is that moments after saying that he is the president for all peaceful protesters, violates that within minutes.
LEMON: It was during. It was as he was saying it.
HERNDON: As he was saying it. That statement couldn't even last the breath in which it got out. That is what I think what sticks with people. It is not only just the type of president who hasn't shown interest in unifying the country but someone who violates their own words, sometimes within minutes and seconds of saying it.
LEMON: As we continue, we scroll through the cities of Oakland, Los Angeles, Louisville, Kentucky, and New York City. Douglas Brinkley, let me bring you in, because the screams of -- the screams, I should say, of a parallel to Richard Nixon's 1968 election campaign, and he ran on law and order and appeal to white anxiety. Is this all about President Trump's reelection?
BRINKLEY: It's absolutely about President Trump's reelection. You know, in April and May of 1968, when Lyndon Johnson was president deciding not to run because of the Vietnam War, we had riot breakouts in 125 cities in the United States due to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s death.
But LBJ kept trying to heal the country. He kept trying to say words of reassurance like he did when he signed the civil rights and voting rights acts in '64 and '65. He tried to unite people. Nixon sought to divide things with this idea of law and order and the fact it worked for him. Then Nixon won in 1968. And then Nixon continued on law and order and won in 1972 over George McGovern, the biggest landslide in American history.
And so this Trump taking a Nixon page mixed with the reality TV star "The Apprentice," I found it just despicable to watch the president do a stunt like that, spray tear gas at Lafayette Park, the public people's park of protest, fire rubber bullets at people, go in like some demagogue, hold the bible that looked like it was even upside down, standing in front of a church that presidents constantly go to really pray at since James Madison.
It was shameless piece of theater by the president of the United States and it makes me theater frightened for what we're looking for. This is no longer just kind of the summer of COVID-19. But it is a summer of anarchy. I don't know. Everything is unraveling very quickly. I don't know how we can deescalate this. The president of the United States sure isn't helping the matter. LEMON: Yeah. And we have more scenes of young people who are out being detained for whatever reason, either peaceful protesting, but we don't know. Peacefully protesting, looting, or what have you. Not sure. We're not there on the ground.
Douglas, thank you. Astead, thank you very much. But many Americans sure not to forget this come November 3rd, whether they are for or against this. I think this will be seared in the minds of Americans.
[23:45:02]
LEMON: You're looking at Dallas and our affiliate WCCO, and there are reporters there on the scene. This is New York City tonight where curfew has been in effect for about 45 minutes. But protesters are still out. They are still marching. They are still walking. They're defying this protest. So far, we have not heard or seen any arrest, but we will check in with our crews who are on the scene just to make sure.
These protests all started with the death of George Floyd. And today, the independent autopsy report, it was released, showing how he died. Those results and the attorney representing Floyd's family are next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Let's get back now to our breaking news. Shimon Prokupecz is out on the streets of New York City. Shimon, what are you seeing?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Don, it is a tough night here in New York City. I think tomorrow, most of us who live here in the city are going to wake up to a very different city. It's just looting, widespread looting all across the city, all across Manhattan.
I was talking to a source, law enforcement, a friend of mine. He is out here. He is working. He explains to me that it's bad, from north to south of Manhattan. Dozens and dozens of stores are being looted. For the last several hours, all you could hear in this city are police cars racing to the different scenes where this looting is taking place.
And it's not that the police are outnumbered, but it's really in some ways just sheer chaos. I've never experienced anything like this. I was talking to someone earlier here who said that he hasn't seen anything like this since the '77 blackout. That's how widespread some of this looting is, everywhere from the upper eastside to lower Manhattan.
We, ourselves, caught images of people looting a store. And what I'm seeing and from what I can tell, it's a very organized effort. I've seen people walking with duffel bags, like duffel bags that they brought with them to Manhattan, where they have stuffed items that they've looted from different stores.
I'm behind Macy's here. This is the famous Macy's here on in Herald Square 34th street. It was boarded up to protect it from looters. They got inside. Police actually chased the looters in there, and they arrested five of them.
And you still see -- there is a curfew here at 11:00. There are people still on the street walking. No one has been arrested for violating the curfew and that could be because the police are dealing with all the looters and that is what is taking up a lot of their time.
The source also told me what he described as tons of arrests. And they're dealing with a pretty chaotic situation. It has been quiet now. I'm not hearing the same sirens that I was hearing earlier. But I just point out that tomorrow, when people wake up and when they walk the streets of Manhattan, they're going to see a very different city than what -- than when they went to sleep.
I want to just make one other point. The mayor's office says they are now changing the curfew time to 8:00 starting tomorrow --
LEMON: I've got to run for time, Shimon. Thank you very much. I just want to make it clear, as well. I'm not sure Macy's -- some of the stores were boarded up because of corona, because they were closed so long for coronavirus.
But yet and still -- I'm not sure if Macy's was one of them -- but yet and still, people should not be going in there looting them. It doesn't matter when they were boarded up. It's just really, really awful. Your point is well taken. Thank you very much. Shimon Prokupecz is out in the streets.
Desperate curfews are in most American cities tonight. People are out in the streets, protesting for the seventh day over the death of George Floyd. The president is threatening to use military force if states don't crack down.
Let's discuss now what's happening. Ben Crump is the attorney for the Floyd family. Ben, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us once again. The Hennepin County's medical examiner says that Mr. Floyd's death was homicide resulting from being restrained. How does that jibe with the independent autopsy commissioned by the family?
BEN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE FLOYD'S FAMILY: Well, it was interesting that after the family's independent autopsy, Dr. Michael Baden and Dr. Allecia Wilson came to the conclusion that the cause of death medically, Don, was mechanical asphyxiation based on the knee to the neck and two knees to the back for almost nine minutes that compressed his lungs, that did not let them contract, and it caused him not to be able to have airflow and blood go to his brain.
The legal cause of death was homicide. And so, now, the county medical examiner has agreed with us on that position.
LEMON: Let me point some stuff out here as our time is short because of the breaking news, and I apologize in advance here. You point out that the independent autopsy report shows it was compression of the neck, as you said, but it's also compression of the back. So, it's not just about ex-officer Chauvin, but the other officers, too, that you are saying are also.
CRUMP: Exactly, Don.
[23:54:58]
CRUMP: And so, hopefully, Attorney General Keith Ellison will now consider that as he looks at the other officers. Quite literally, Don, the ambulance was the hearse for George Floyd. That ambulance that picked him up was his hearse because he was dead at the scene.
LEMON: How is Philonese doing because we had that moment yesterday on the air where he got to speak, through Sara Sidner, to the police chief in Minneapolis, and then get his response. How is he doing and how is the family doing tonight?
CRUMP: Don, they are taking it one step at a time. But they want to thank you, Don. That was a very powerful exchange for all America to see. And right now, they're just taking a breath. You know, George Floyd autopsy resulted that he literally was starving for air. He needed a breath.
So the Floyd family and I am asking everybody in America, let's take a breath for justice, let's take a breath for peace, let's take a breath to heal our country, and let's take a breath for George.
LEMON: Thank you very much, Benjamin Crump. We appreciate it. Our regards to the family. We will see you soon. You be safe.
So, police and protesters are facing off nationwide, but there are also moments of people coming together. In Flint, Michigan, the sheriff put down his baton and listened to protesters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS SWANSON, SHERIFF OF GENESEE COUNTY, MICHIGAN: We want to be with you all for real. So, I took my helmet off, they laid the batons down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Yeah.
SWANSON: I want to make this a parade, not a protest.
(CHEERING)
SWANSON: That's it. We got little ones here. You got dogs. So, what's up? So listen, I'm just telling you, these cops love you. That cop over there hugs people. So, you tell us what you need to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Walk with us!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Walk with us! Walk with us! Walk with us!
SWANSON: Let's walk. Let's walk. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That was Genesee County Sheriff Chris Swanson, and he joins me now. Sheriff, I'm sorry our time is short because of the breaking news. You understand what's happening on the streets all over the country. You are being called an inspiration for how you worked with that march and just -- and for peaceful -- making things peaceful. What was going through your head in that moment?
SWANSON: I'm going to tell you I couldn't do my part if I didn't have Johnny Franklin, Quon (ph) Adams, and Jeff Hawkins. They were community leaders in that group that saw that I wanted to hear what they had to say, that we wanted to let them voice their opinion. That's what the frustration is.
You need to let the people talk. And when those three brothers stepped up, I gave a big bear hug, and I said what do you need? They said, walk with us. And that's the change. You got to listen to the people and walk with them. I'm telling you, it starts from the grassroots.
LEMON: Let me jump in. It's very different of what we saw today. The sort of militaristic state playing out in Washington and the president saying he's going to deploy the military here in America to prevent violence. What's your reaction to that? Do you want that in your city?
SWANSON: In Flint, Michigan, we had protesters. We had protesters who remembered the message of George Floyd, just like Mr. Crump said. That's the focus that we had that day. We have been blessed to have community leaders that saw the message, that acted, and it set the tone across the nation.
My heart -- my heart breaks for those cities, you know, your report on New York City. We're being watched by the entire world. And we are one nation, one blood. And I'm going to tell you, it's the protesters who put that voice out that needed to be heard. We cannot lose that focus.
LEMON: Uh-huh. There are calls all across the nation for police reform. I'm wondering what that change means because you mentioned the name George Floyd, (INAUDIBLE) McDaniel, Botham Jean, Alton Sterling, and on and on. What does that mean? What does reform mean to you?
CRUMP: Well, 100 percent. I mean, we have to be held to the highest standard. Law enforcement can stop calling wrongs right. We have to do the right thing. There should be no such thing as a bad cop because if they're bad, they shouldn't be the police. We need to root those people out. That means terminations. That means charges, if they do wrong. The public expects more.
George Floyd changed American policing. And that's why people want to be talked to. That's why they want to be listened to. And it starts with the police, Don. We have to be the ones who start the conversation, take the initiative, and bring it to the street.
LEMON: You got any advice? I know that's partial advice. You got any advice for departments along the country looking to improve in the short time we have left?
CRUMP: Yeah, absolutely. Don't give up on the people. No matter what's happening in your city, don't give up. They are the ones that we protect and serve. You walk into your communities, you use your power, your influence, your grassroots, your leaders, and you ask them, will you walk with us, because we want to walk with you? That's what happened in Flint, Michigan.
LEMON: That's exactly what Sheriff Chris Swanson did. He walked with the protesters and he understood, and he had a conversation with them. And you met them where they are. And that's what we need.
