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CUOMO PRIME TIME
NYC Braces For Unrest After Night Of Widespread Looting, Imposes 8 P.M. ET Curfew; Stephen Jackson: "I'm Here To Get Justice" For George Floyd; FBI Investigating Extremist Groups Disrupting Protests. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 2, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes, that's Atlanta, just about a minute away from the - the start of the curfew.
There's National Guard, I believe, though not so much, it's hard to see there, but I believe National Guard on the streets there, curfew taking effect in just, yes, that's also shots of - of Atlanta as well.
We've seen peaceful protests across the country throughout the day. Our coverage continues right now with Chris. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you very much, Anderson. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
It is a sad day when we need curfews in our cities. America's major cities are filled with people demanding this country become more fair, more just, and ironically, more united.
Now, too many see the protests as the problem. No, the problem is what forced your fellow citizens to take to the streets, persistent, and poisonous, inequities and injustice.
And please, show me where it says that protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful because I can show you that outraged citizens are the ones who've made America what she is, and led to any major milestones.
Be honest, this is not a tranquil time. They're not here to make power or you or me comfortable? They're here to yell, criticize, blame and shame. You don't have to like it. But why not focus on remembering the reason for the pain that fuels their purpose?
Police are the ones who are risk - required to be peaceful, to de- escalate, to remain calm. They are, in fact, trained to do exactly that. So, when one kneels on someone's neck for a long time, and other police don't stop obvious deadliness, that's the problem.
We can't be in a place where cops can act human and be forgiven, but citizens can have the same flawed responses, and be justifiably killed, or told to hold their tongues.
Citizens have no duty to check their outrage or to ignore a curfew to keep doing that. They may get arrested because it's illegal. But that's their right as well.
Looting, arson, violence, now, that's something else. Don't confuse that with protests or the people doing it with protesters. There are bad people mixed in with good people in these situations. That's the truth. We're learning it in every city.
And we're watching New York City tonight, especially closely, where orders went into effect an hour ago to stay off the streets after one of the wildest most destructive nights in recent memory. This is the strictest curfew in place in the Big Apple since the race riots of 1943.
It's three hours earlier than last night after the City descended into absolute chaos. There was looting and lawlessness City-wide. Cops could not get a handle on it.
So far today, protests have been what - what they are the overwhelming majority of the time everywhere, peaceful, if you want to call it that. They're certainly not violent.
But just in New York, many big cities across America, you have to see this too, there has been major unrest. What's going to happen tonight? Now, we do know that the NYPD has a different plan tonight.
Joining us on the phone is the man at the head of the plan, New York City Mayor, Bill de Blasio.
Mr. Mayor, can you hear us?
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, (D) NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK: Yes, Chris. How are you doing?
CUOMO: I'm doing well, thank God. Thank you for taking this opportunity to be our eyes and ears.
Do you expect tonight to be a night that is more under control for the NYPD?
DE BLASIO: Absolutely. You know, I'm out now on the Manhattan side of the Manhattan Bridge. A group of protesters have been coming across the bridge, very different reality because of the early curfew.
And, you know, Chris, I listened to your intro. I thought you said a lot of very important and powerful things that I agreed with.
I just want to correct one thing, if I may, that we had a really troubling situation last night in Midtown Manhattan and in one area of the Bronx. But we had no unrest, no looting in Brooklyn, and Queens, and Staten Island, and most of the Bronx, and most of Manhattan. I really want to set that straight.
But unquestionably, it has been a tough few days. And with this early curfew has made a big difference, everyone going, streets are much more empty, huge amount of NYPD presence.
We have Uber and Lyft and Via close down because bluntly looters were using them. We've limited traffic below 96th Street in Manhattan, to knock the looters off their game.
It's a small group, Chris. It was hundreds of people, thousands, maybe a few thousands who were there, trained criminals in many cases. And that group must be disrupted.
And so far, it's been a good night, a lot of peaceful protests in the day, much calmer situation right now, at least at this moment.
CUOMO: Well look, day and night are literally, as the pun goes, they're completely different from one another. And at night time, you definitely have the looters. You have people who mixed in, some posed as protesters during the day.
The criticism last night was that there weren't enough police on the street. They weren't given enough of their tools. The plan was to be too nice. And when the situation turned not nice, they weren't able to handle it, and that's why you had the problems in Manhattan.
DE BLASIO: You know, I just want to say, we made a very conscious decision, the City and State together, to put the curfew in place, to start it late because it was a very different situation, as you said in your intro, curfews are very rare in New York City.
We were just putting it in place the same day. We wanted to make sure that people and neighborhoods did not get caught up in it in the wrong way. And we really, except for that that point, only Sunday night had we seen a problem. We had not seen it in all these other days of protests. Only after 9 o'clock after dark on Sunday night.
So, we thought we had a measured plan, and then, suddenly, this very coordinated criminal activity in Midtown Manhattan. Made the adjustments, we've gone to the earlier curfew, 8:00 P.M., so it's even before it gets dark.
We're going to keep this for the whole week. Huge amount of NYPD presence, the traffic restrictions, the restrictions on the vehicles that the looters were trying to use, it's a very, very different ballgame here.
But look, I mean, we - I wish, Chris, and you know this, you know this well, we learn from each day. If you would have asked me on Saturday, did we have a need for a curfew, I'd say we - we hadn't seen any looting on Saturday. Even Sunday afternoon, we still hadn't seen any looting.
It was only Sunday night--
DE BLASIO: --it started to turn. Now we've made the adjustment. I think this is the right approach that will help us to really lead this kind of this moment out and get back to a more normal place.
CUOMO: So, in terms of what the change looks like, Mr. Mayor, you know, as we go now, day into night, when you start to see the problems, can you give me some numbers, and not just quantity, but qualitative differences in terms of other assets you'll bring to bear tonight.
But let's start with the numbers. How many - how many police uniform, and otherwise, did you increase on the streets?
DE BLASIO: Yes, I've spoken to Commissioner Dermot Shea of NYPD. And he is for, I think, smart, strategic, and - and security reasons, he doesn't want us to be public about the exact details and numbers.
What I can tell you is there is a vast presence. I mean I'm right here in Lower Manhattan, I'm looking, everywhere I see really big contingence of police. Everywhere I've gone, over Manhattan today, the same, a huge number of vehicles out.
This is the highest number of police we've had over the last five days. And obviously, they are empowered by the early curfew. And when the Commissioner tells me he needs a tool, I'm always going to try and get it for him.
And so, we talked it through last night. As soon as we saw that looting last night, we said we need that earlier curfew. And I do think it's having a real effect. I can see that people are very conscious.
At 8 o'clock, when I was driving around, people were like scurrying, you know, they were moving quick, to try and get home.
CUOMO: Right. Well look, I mean it makes it easier for the cops to have a curfew because they don't have to have probable cause to stop people because, by definition, being on the street in a way that is not acceptable to them is something they can stop you for.
One more, I want to give you a chance to respond to one more thing, and then I want to ask you, which is a much harder question than just the logistics of policing.
The idea that the police weren't given the tools that they wanted, that you didn't want to see mounted cops, and that you didn't want to see everybody in riot gear, and you didn't want to use some of the tools they like to use because you wanted to show a deference to the protesters, is that fair?
DE BLASIO: No. It's false, and I will tell you why it's false.
I didn't even have to weigh in on those decisions before Commissioner Shea said that that was what he wanted to do.
And I would have - if he had said "Look, I think we should do a lot of mounted, there are more aggressive approaches," I would have questioned him, and challenged him, and said I think there could be some real unintended consequences.
The same thing I'd say about National Guard, Chris. I think you bring National Guard into a City this big, this complex, this diverse, people not trained to deal with an urban complex environment, and you are going to have to run a real risk of some violence, and - and someone losing their life.
DE BLASIO: And so, and I want to make the point that the Commissioner and I agreed on that. We agreed that there was not a scenario where it made sense to use the approaches that could have taken a tense situation and make it a lot worse.
And, in general, I want to be clear, overwhelmingly, the protests have been peaceful. There's a small anarchist group that's been violent and then there's a small criminal element that's been violent.
But you're talking about a infinitesimal percentage compared to the overwhelming majority of the protesters who have been peaceful.
CUOMO: No question that overwhelmingly, people are here for the right reasons. But a little people - a little group of people can do a lot of wrong. We both know that.
DE BLASIO: You got that right.
CUOMO: Here's my - here's my last question. You know this. I've known you my whole life. And you've seen these issues that are before us now. You have kids who are uniquely exposed to these issues.
To these people who are on the streets, who say to you, "Look, we have no other way to deal with this. Things never get better. People keep dying the same way. The inequities stay the same. The education gaps stay the same. This majority and minority just never mix in these two countries - these two cities - these two parts of this country the way we need it to. Things won't get better," what is your message of why anybody should think things can get better?
DE BLASIO: It's such a powerful question, Chris, thank you.
I have a daughter who's 25, who participated in the protest, and got arrested a few days ago. I have a son, who's 22. As you know, both of them are half Caucasian and half African-American. And if you look at them, you see African-American kids.
And my son has had encounters, where he had to worry because of his race that he might be misjudged. It's very personal in our family.
And I say that to say, as I've talked to them, this is the best measure I've got for you, Chris, two good, decent young people who want to see a better world, and have put themselves out there, trying to help make that better world, they haven't given up.
They can have a reasoned conversation. When I say to them "Hey, we got rid of stop-and-frisk in this City. We got body cameras on every officer. We - we put neighborhood policing into place," there are officers actually working with communities, listening to communities. We got the Cure Violence movement, Chris, community people, some of whom once on the wrong side of the law now that are peace-makers, violence interrupters. All of this we've been making happen in this City.
And when I talk to my kids about it, they see all that as real progress. But they also tell me, you're not going far enough, and they want to see more.
And they push me to go farther, and especially on the question of faster discipline for officers, and making sure that the very few officers that shouldn't be on the Force are not on the Force, these are reasonable conversations.
It's like you said in the beginning, Chris, why don't we have this conversation not as, you know, different sides, and not from a negative kind of tribal perspective, but as human beings, as Americans, trying to work it through because these things are not impossible to work through.
And you know in New York City, you know, seven years ago, before I was Mayor, stop-and-frisk, tons of tension between police and community. Today, a lot better, notwithstanding what we've gone through these last few days.
So, change can happen and it must happen. And you're right. If the protesters say you're not hearing us, you need to see something more has to happen, we should respect that, learn from it, and act on it.
CUOMO: Mr. Mayor, be safe out there. Thank you very much for being our eyes and ears. I appreciate you taking the opportunity tonight. I know it's a very busy and tough time.
DE BLASIO: Yes, it's good to be with you, Chris. Take care, man. Be safe.
CUOMO: All right, God bless, best to the family.
Let's take a quick break here. Look, the night is just starting. And things do change at night.
Why? The biggest reason any police officer will tell you is opportunity. It's harder to see people at night. It's harder to track. It's easier. That's why we all know things happen that are worse at night.
What about on this night? Somebody who became a face of a potential solution to the problem of this rift between protester and policemen is Terence Monahan, Chief of Department of the NYPD. He's on the ground tonight as well.
Let's take a quick break, and get to the Chief, and hear his perspective, on the realities on his City's streets tonight, and then we'll let him get to his job.
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CUOMO: We're very fortunate tonight to have the top uniformed NYPD member, Terence Monahan,
Chief, it's good to have you. Thank you.
TERENCE MONAHAN, NYPD CHIEF OF DEPARTMENT: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: You guys think you're looking at a better night tonight. And if so, why?
MONAHAN: We're hoping so. We put some lot things in place, shutdown all traffic south of 96th Street, which will make it a lot easier for us to move, so we can get from one location to another, because we need to be nimble.
With the curfew at 8 o'clock, it gives us a reason, if we have a group that's starting to cause trouble that we can stop them all, and hopefully get them all off the street.
But we still have a lot of - lot of people marching around right now. We're monitoring groups of 1,000 here, and a 1,000 there, throughout Manhattan and still some in Brooklyn.
So, as of now, it's been limited problems. But obviously we have our eye on it.
CUOMO: Right. And you got a long way to go, obviously. It's always been the lawman's problem, the darker it gets at night you're going to have more opportunity.
What's your straight take on why things went sideways last night? I was getting videos all night of looters that were just a couple of steps ahead of NYPD. Was it because there wasn't enough numbers? Was there a different plan? Was there something that surprised you? Why was it like that?
MONAHAN: Yes. They - they had a lot of people out here. We had a lot. They had more. They had a couple of thousand kids running through either SoHo or up here in Upper Manhattan hitting these places.
Someone would hit it, and then some would go in, or they'd circle back. It was cat and mouse all day. But we made 700 arrests. There were 2,000 out here. We put handcuffs on 700 of them. The problem being is that they're back out here again tonight.
CUOMO: What's your take so far, from the - from the men and women who are in the action saying what you think you're going to discover about these looters? Do you think there's going to be complete crossover, that they're all protesters? Or do you think this is going to be something else at hand?
MONAHAN: No. They're using the cover of protests to fill their pockets. It got out somehow that, you know, it's all right, it's part of a protest to loot, and that's what they're doing.
They came down here just to make money. And realizing that once they do it, if they're caught for burglary, and there's no consequence, if they're right back out on the street again, why not do it again the next night.
CUOMO: Now you're talking about their ability to get out of jail, and also other assets they have at their disposal, that they're using Citi Bikes. They're using encrypted messaging. They're running a game.
These aren't people looking for improvements in society. They're looking to get over on society.
MONAHAN: Absolutely. Organizing what they do, they utilize those Citi Bikes, the Rebels. They're using them as scouts to see where we are. They'll cause some diversion, set a fire somewhere. You go to that. Another group will go into another direction.
If we cover one area heavy, they're looping around to see where we are, where we're not, where they can make a quick strike. So, it's been a lot of cat and mouse. But we've - we've grabbed a lot of them.
So, our cops have been doing a tremendous job, running, chasing, tackling and fighting. Quite literally, every time we take an arrest, it's a struggle. Bottles do get thrown at us.
A lot of cops have gotten injured. We're up to around a 170, who've gotten injured, and a lot more who've taken injuries who are still working.
CUOMO: And coming on the heels of COVID, you guys are up at about 17 percent, almost 20 percent, at one point, in terms of people being sick from that. So, you guys have been through it.
And when the Chief said Rebels, he's not talking about people. He's talking about scooters. They use these scooters--
CUOMO: --that are called Rebels--
MONAHAN: Yes, the Rebel scooters.
CUOMO: --as a way of getting around, yes. I got you on that, Chief. Now, you had a couple of moments, where you really wound up appealing and pissing off to all sides of this situation like in the same day. You took a kneel - a knee with protesters.
We're showing it to the audience right now. Now that's something that some people took as capitulation to people saying "Cops are bad." But you said at the time, I did this because I work for these communities, and I understand their pain.
What made you take a knee?
MONAHAN: We were in a very tense situation. There were literally 5,000 protesters coming out of the park. We had maybe 50 cops, and it got very contentious.
A line was formed, and there were organizers at that protest who were holding them back, saying to them "We don't want - We like the cops. We're not against the police. We're not against the police." And it wasn't helping.
He appealed to me, "I can't stop them. I can't stop them. Help me." It's at that point, I approached him. I asked for a mic.
I made a speech to the crowd, told them to get rid of these outside agitators, that are working in our City, trying to take control of our City, to get rid of them, because the cops in the community, they've had a great relationship, for the most part in this City.
And then, at that point, he asked if I'd go down on a knee with him. I said, "Sure," and we went down. Very organic, nothing planned in what we did.
CUOMO: And in terms of what you wanted the people to take from that, the idea that people take that as a message that, "Look, look at the Top Cop in New York City. He knows that what happened to George Floyd was wrong," are you OK with people taking that message?
MONAHAN: Absolutely. What happened to George Floyd was wrong.
I don't think you could find a law enforcement officer in this country who would say that. There are actually 800,000 law enforcement officers in this country paying the price for what happened to George Floyd, which that is wrong.
We didn't do that. That happened. And there's consequences to that cop. He is under arrest. We didn't do it.
There's 800,000 law enforcement officers that work daily with our community, that put our lives on the line, that bleed for our communities, no way should we have to keep paying that price.
CUOMO: Now, on the other side, you said that you don't believe that racism plays a role here in New York when it comes to policing.
And that is what the protesters will say you have wrong, that racism is inherent in these constant conflicts between people of color and the police. It has to have a role and that may be police officers, maybe even you are unaware of the role.
MONAHAN: Listen, I said that. We all have inherent biases but not racism. We've all grown up differently. I haven't lived through the eyes of an African-American male. He hasn't lived through my eyes growing up.
So, we may see the world differently. But that doesn't make us racists. That doesn't think that a cop is going out, and saying, let me target someone because he's African-American.
A cop goes out there and targets criminals. That's who we look to get, to keep everyone - we have died to save people in minority communities. Our Police Department is a majority-minority community.
Neighborhood policing is all about creating these ties. And you can go to any community in this City, and you could see White officers with minority communities having tremendous, tremendous relationship.
We are all same. We are all human. You know, don't look at us as blue. We don't look at you, as the community, as criminals. We have to look at one another as human, and that's how we move past everything.
CUOMO: Chief, I got to tell you, community policing is huge.
I know what a big proponent you are of it, not just on days like today. You know, someone who doesn't know you, said to me, "Yes, he took a kneel today. But, you know, this is about what happens on all the other days."
I know how you do this job. I know how you got where you are. I know what community policing means to you. And I appreciate you being with us tonight, and doing the job for the people of the City of New York.
Thank you very much. Stay safe and God bless.
MONAHAN: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, be well, thank you, Chief.
All right so look, lot of things are true at the same time, all right? I've known Monahan a long time. He's not just a good cop. He's a good man. Does that mean he's going to make people happy all the time? No.
I know a lot of people didn't like what he said that it's not about racism, maybe it's bias. People don't like the distinctions being made. A lot of people who are pro law enforcement didn't like him taking a knee.
Let me tell you one thing about him. He doesn't care about who likes or who doesn't like what he does, as long as he's doing his job the right way as he sees it. But a lot of things are true here at the same time.
You know, overwhelmingly, people are out there, calling for things to get better in this world. They're not out there to make them worse.
But yes, there are people who are making them worse, and we have to figure it out. But you have to look beyond all of this stuff, this stimulus on the streets, the stimulus on your screen, and remember why they're there.
George Floyd is not the beginning of this. OK? This has been going on for a long time, and it's not just about policing. It's about what the underlying gives an opportunity, and hope and ambition are about.
That's why people are crying out for justice for George Floyd, yes, because his life ended the wrong way. But his life up until that point was, in all likelihood, not what it could have been, had things been more fair and more just in this society.
Who has great perspective on this? Someone who knew him very well, former NBA player, Stephen Jackson. Floyd was his dear friend. And now, his friend is vowing to step in, and walk Floyd's beautiful daughter, who no longer has her father, down the aisle one day.
He'll be with us next.
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CUOMO: Former NBA player, Stephen Jackson, is a close friend of George Floyd. He spoke out alongside members of Floyd's family today, demanding justice. He also has a message for George's daughter, Gianna, who will never see her father again. Here it is.
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STEPHEN JACKSON, FORMER NBA PLAYER: But you know what, that's a lot of stuff you said that he's going to miss, that I'm going to be there for. I'm going to walk her down the aisle. I'm going to be there for her. I'm going to be here to wipe your tears. You think what I'm saying?
JACKSON: I'm going to be here for you and Gigi. Floyd might not be here, but I'm here for her. I'm here to - I'm here to get justice, and we're going to get justice for my brother. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Jackson calls George Floyd his twin, and he joins us now.
Stephen Jackson, sorry to meet you this way. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, but thank you for taking the opportunity.
JACKSON: Well my pleasure, I'm a big-time fan.
CUOMO: Thank you very much. I'm sorry.
We don't want to just remember your friend because of what took his life. Yes, it's very important. Yes, finding answers and getting justice is important. There's no question about that.
But what do you want people to know about who this man is, so they don't just see him as one police stop?
JACKSON: He was somebody that was dedicated to being a protector and provider for everybody. He was one of those guys that wanted to be the guy to make sure everybody was straight.
A lot of times when you grow up in the neighborhood, as we grow up in, a lot of neighborhoods have different beefs, and they don't get along.
George can be from one side, but he was the only guy from this side that can go on to other side, and make everybody get along. He was a peacemaker. He was a lover. And he was just a protector.
And what I'm going to miss most about him see (ph) is that, as an athlete, you come across a lot of people that support you and that's around you for the wrong reasons. Floyd was one friend that never abused our friendship.
It was - it was genuine. He supported me on his social media. Anything I've done, he will support him - like it was him, and like he was living through me. And I just - I'm going to miss someone, have somebody that supported me the most, and supported me - supported me genuinely.
I'm going to miss not - I'm going to miss not having him here because it's very seldom you find somebody that supports you that way, and really want to see you win.
CUOMO: Now Stephen, I know that, you know, you want to talk straight, and you want people to understand, you know, who he was and what this is about.
How do you deal with the perspective that "No, no. I don't know who he was to you. But here is who he was. This was about him committing a crime. The police got called there, and he wasn't compliant, and that's how this all started," what is your response to that?
JACKSON: Well I'm - I'm done - I'm the mascot for that.
I got into fight and a brawl, and I got an incident in the NBA, two incidents, and that's overshadowed me for - for my whole career. But nobody knows me. But today, if somebody had a conversation with me, they will say different.
You can judge a book by its cover all you want, but that's why we're here. We got to tell people who Floyd - who Floyd was, how - what a great father he was, what a great friend he was. And a lot of people can assume, but only we know him.
CUOMO: And when you saw the video of what your friend was saying, and how he was being handled, what effect did that have on you emotionally?
JACKSON: It hurt because I've seen me down there. That could have easily been me.
Knowing that - what bothered me most is my friend that showed so much love to everybody had to die from somebody that had so much hate in him. He didn't deserve that. He didn't deserve that. He didn't display no hate to anybody. And it just sucks that happened.
But we got to get justice. That's the main reason I'm still in Minnesota now.
CUOMO: What is justice?
JACKSON: Good question. We never had it, so I can't really answer it. But it can start by those guys get going to jail.
A lot - a lot of people have asked me, you know, what is justice? And I can't answer it because we haven't got it. So, if anybody has the answer, please tell me, because I sure don't know.
CUOMO: You think all four officers should go to jail?
JACKSON: By far. By far. It's not even close.
CUOMO: If you could talk to the three officers who are watching, the officer who had his knee on your friend's throat, what would you ask them?
JACKSON: Could I get a minute - could I get at least 30 minutes of your time, just me and them. That's what I'd ask.
CUOMO: What would--
JACKSON: You know, I'm - you know, I'm going to be honest with you.
JACKSON: You know, I'm going to be honest with you. I just want 30 minutes of their time.
CUOMO: And what would those 30 minutes be like?
JACKSON: Just me and him behind the closed doors, nobody needs to know.
CUOMO: And what would you be looking for in that room?
JACKSON: Answers, definitely looking for answers. But I don't plan on asking them. I plan on taking them, just like they took my brother life.
CUOMO: Are you worried about - not worried, but how do you struggle with not becoming what you oppose?
Listen, you're a passionate guy. Everybody knows, who saw you play, you know, if somebody brought the noise, you'd bring the funk right back to them. There was never going to be a question.
But one of the - one of the hard parts for people who want things to be better is that there's this standard put on you to be better, to be better than the way they were to you. And that's a hard thing to do to somebody who's in pain, who's been hurt, because anger is our first- reach response.
How do you deal with all that mixed emotion?
JACKSON: Well we're dealing with reality. I know I will never get to him. I know I'll never get that 30 minutes with him. So, what can I do?
I can use my voice. I can be here, and stand for my brother, stand for his kids. Any - any time I can - I can use my voice to highlight what's going on here in Minnesota, and his case, I'm going to do it. And then, that's all I can do right now.
Obviously, the protests have been great, and - and people are following me, and looking for advice going forward. And I love being in this position.
But the looting and all that stuff, Floyd wasn't about that. He wouldn't support that at all. He loved to support that everybody's screaming his name, wherein away in Iran and The Netherlands, all that stuff, he - he definitely appreciates all of that.
But we don't want all the work we've done to get the noise and - and the light on his situation taken away from us by a group of people who coming in and don't understand our same fight, don't understand our same pain, and we can't let them take away from that.
CUOMO: Any kind of exploitation, the exploitation of his freedom, of his rights, of his life, and now of his cause, they're all wrong. I understand you on that. I respect the pain that brought you to this place.
I thought it was beautiful what you said to Gianna, to his daughter. It must have meant so much to her because she must be so lost right now.
If we can help, you know that we are a phone call away. I'm no Stephen Jackson. But if I say it, I mean it. And I'm showing the GoFundMe page right now for Gianna Floyd, her
fund. If people want to help, if that's the way they see their heart and their mind, that's their opportunity for them to do it. I will tweet out it as well.
And if you want to talk, if there's a next move, and you want the media to know about it, I know it fades as the moment fades, I'll be there. I'm a phone call away.
JACKSON: And I appreciate. It's like I said, big-time fan. Thanks again.
CUOMO: Thank you for taking the time. I am sorry for your loss.
JACKSON: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, what we witnessed all day across most of the country was what we've seen almost every day since this started. Look, it's not 51-49. It's 90-10, OK, this is democracy in action.
You may not like what they say. But that is your right not to like it, and it is their right to say it.
There is no duty to be tranquil when you protest because you're outraged in pain and hurt about people that you care about and who look like you and that you feel for dying a lot, OK?
This is a situation that demands leadership. I keep telling you, it's not going to happen, that we have to lean on one another. I'm not being a cynic.
I'm somebody who wants to give us the best chance to get to a better place because look, what lesson, how many times do you have to get hit on the knuckles by this President to understand that he is not with these people on the streets.
He wants to make them the enemy. He wants to see counter protests. He chases them out of a park so he can go stand in front of a church with a Bible, holding a book whose messages he does not hold in his heart.
That's our reality. That's our reality. The question is what do we do about that reality? That's why we've got to keep talking, and we've got to keep watching, and see where this situation takes us. We'll do that next.
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CUOMO: Things change at night. Things get dangerous at night. People get hurt at night. And that's why we're paying special attention now to cities all over the country.
Let's go to Alex Marquardt, in Washington's Lafayette Park, in front of the White House.
It's not about protests changing. It's about people who were sometimes hiding amid protesters, are the groups that are looking for advantage. Those things happen at night. You've seen them with your own eyes, night after night.
What's the situation where you are now?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris. That's absolutely right.
MARQUARDT (voice-over): I mean it was - it was only two nights ago, remember, when we were on the air, almost precisely at this moment, when things did start to change, a peaceful protest turning violent.
We are now in the third hour of this curfew. And as you can see, this is still a very strong crowd. They are showing no sign of going home. In fact, they've been chanting against the curfew.
The crowd has thinned out significantly. But hundreds of people, if not more, still remain pressed up against this fence. This fence, Chris, is a new addition to this perimeter around Lafayette Park, right in front of the White House.
You can see there. My cameraman, Jay McMichael is showing you that long row of National Guardsmen from D.C., we believe, who are maintaining that line there.
MARQUARDT: But I have to say, Chris, it has been an entirely peaceful protest all day. We have been here since the early afternoon hours. There has been very little in the way of altercations between the forces in the park and the people out here.
In fact, any time anyone in this crowd tries to start something by throwing water bottles, or by rocking the - the fences there--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're all from D.C. bro. Come on, come on, we're all from D.C.
Then the protesters shout them down, and try to stop them.
So Chris, this is very much a quiet crowd. This is a peaceful crowd. But, as you note, things can change. The night is now wearing on. There is a curfew in effect. It remains to be seen whether anyone is going to enforce that, Chris.
CUOMO: That's very interesting. So, you are seeing some people try to get that fence to give way, and you are watching other protesters go after them. And what are those altercations like? How do they resolve?
MARQUARDT (voice-over): Well yes, I mean, I would say about once an hour, let's say, people start rocking the fence. And these - these panels of these - of this fence are connected by chainlink.
MARQUARDT: And essentially, the crowd just starts shouting at them to stop, and start chanting "Peaceful protests! Peaceful protests!" or "Hands up, don't shoot," so that the Forces inside the park don't respond. And remember, those are Federal Forces. Those are not local D.C. Forces.
And so far, that has been effective. We have seen it over the past few nights as well, when people within the crowd would start throwing things, other protesters would set upon them, and get them to stop, so that it remains a peaceful protest.
Now, the agitators, as you know, do come out at night. But, for now, this is - this is very - this is certainly a peaceful protest. And you can hear--
MARQUARDT: --them. They are still chanting for this to remain a peaceful protest, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, Alex, thank you very much. You and the team, please stay safe, and let us know when we need to come back to you, OK?
CUOMO: All right, one - one quick side note. I want to get deeper into this agitator element, and how just because a group looks like, you know, just one big mass of people, there are a lot of different factions in there.
But this trend on social media, do you understand how absurd it is that some of us are saying, "Oh yes? If they just want to protest, why are they wearing masks?"
There's a pandemic going on, that's why. Did you think of that? Maybe that's why that not every masked man is a criminal during a pandemic? That's why.
Or maybe it's because, especially in front of the White House, especially after last night, they're anticipating bad things being done to them, in order to move them out of the way.
Please think, be open. Don't be bit by cynicism on everything. That's how we got here. We have to start thinking differently or we'll never get out of it, all right? And look, to that point, again, them, beating up on those protesters yesterday, that was about this President wanting political advantage. I don't know what he thought it would mean and to who standing in front of that church.
But now, it's not just that image. It's, "And you know who's out there? Antifa. That's who it is, the outside agitator."
Now, let's get some facts about what this means, who is in there, what is the reality on the ground about what is legit and illegit. I know it's complicated, OK?
But our understanding is you got White supremacists dressing up to look like what they're not.
You've got - you've got Left-wing fringe, off-shoots of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, people who sometimes use the symbol of - of those causes, but they're not legit. You have other parts that are part of that, and they're not legit either. It's complicated.
The problem is real and simple. How it breaks down, complicated. Who knows? Charles Ramsey and Andrew McCabe. Andrew's best-selling book is "The Threat: How the FBI Protects America in the Age of Terror and Trump."
Gentleman, thank you both. I know you both rely on you both.
I trust that, to this point, Andrew, I've gotten it all correct, in terms of what you see out there. The President is playing to Antifa, and we know why. He wants the Left, specifically the Democrats, to own all Left-wing groups.
Now, the political play, which I won't burden you guys with, that's dangerous because that means he's got to own the people on the Right. If the Democrats own Antifa, then he's got to own the Neo-Nazis, and the White Supremacists that are out there. I don't know why he'd want that exchange.
But in terms of the reality of agitators in these groups and mixed agendas, Andrew, what's the reality?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR, AUTHOR, "THE THREAT": Chris, the reality is there are always a hodgepodge, a mix of people who are drawn to these events because of the masses, because of the violence, because of the opportunity to engage in criminal activity.
People from all walks of life, from very different positions politically, and ideologically, who simply take advantage of the chaos and the movement of the crowd, to pursue whatever aims they have.
Having Left-wing or Right-wing beliefs is not a crime in this country. It is when you engage in criminal activity that it becomes something that law enforcement has to investigate, and has to try to separate out from the crowd that is peacefully protesting, and exercising their First Amendment rights.
CUOMO: Now, Commissioner, in every one of these situations that I've been in, I've never had anybody tell me it was just one group or just one wing. It seems the bigger the protest the more opportunity. It's always Left-wing and Right-wing.
The President has been very sure of himself in saying "No Right-wing, all Left-wing." Do you believe that? And what is the significance to you, Chief - Commissioner?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER, FORMER WASHINGTON, D.C. POLICE CHIEF: No, I don't believe it at all. And Andy's right. You know, I've handled a lot of demonstrations - excuse me.
You always have these agitators that are there. They're having a totally different agenda. They could be far-Left, could be far-Right, or just could be people who just want to cause some problems. And it takes away from the majority of people that are there.
I was impressed today, actually, with the demonstrations, as large as they were, how peaceful they were.
CUOMO: Andy, so what's the challenge in terms of figuring out who is who and what's what?
And Commissioner, you got something there to drink? I need you healthy. I'm going to be leaning on you every day. I need you a 100 percent.
RAMSEY: Quick drinks.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
Andy, what's the challenge for you in terms of policing these situations?
MCCABE: Chris, you know, Chris with - as with any one of these situations, the thing I would ask your viewers to focus on is evidence. Instead of listening to both sides casting aspersions on the other, let's see the evidence.
So far, we haven't seen any evidence of individuals who are - who we know to be affiliated with, or drawn to, let's say, Antifa ideology, actually being involved in the protests.
Evidence would be seeing a known Antifa-affiliated person actually come under arrest for - for engaging in criminal activity or maybe seeing someone who we know to be - hold themselves out as an Antifa spokesperson, making credible claims of responsibility on social media.
Those are the sort of indicators that local law enforcement and the FBI will look to, to try to determine whether or not there is actually a significant element of the Antifa-motivated folks that are driving some of this violence. CUOMO: And Commissioner, let me give you a last word on this. So, you have your radicals, you know, so you have your legitimate protesters.
You know, let's just make up numbers. Let's say that's 85 percent. And then you have 15 percent that are a mix of your anarchists, your Guy Fawkes people, your Left-wing, your Right-wing, then you have this other group, Commissioner, you have looters.
You have a criminal element that mixes in here--
CUOMO: --from that community that may look like the protesters, but they're not there for the same reason as the protesters.
RAMSEY: Yes, they're opportunists. I mean, and that's what you saw in New York. That's what you saw in Philadelphia. That's what you've seen in some other cities as well. They use this as cover because cops can't be everywhere.
You know, we talk about numbers, we talk about NYPD, how big they are, they still have a City to cover, 911 calls still come in, there is still crime being committed.
They can't put everybody, all 38,000 cops Downtown with protesters. So, you know, they know that your resources are spread a little bit thin, and they take advantage of it. We had a lot of problems here in Philly yesterday as a result of that. And we spent a lot of time chasing after them.
But there - it's so widespread and it's very organized, by the way. These aren't just small groups of kids that, you know, are just out there, you know, with a brick-breaking. This is very organized.
It reminds me, it's more sophisticated than the flash mobs we dealt with a few years ago with kids on social media to get together and run through a Macy's or what have you. This is very well-organized. And that's going to be a problem for law enforcement for a - for a while to come.
But you're absolutely right, all different kinds of groups, different kinds of agenda, but the problem is it takes away from the legitimate message that people are trying to get across, and that is something that we can't allow to happen.
CUOMO: Commissioner, thank you very much. Andrew McCabe, as always, thank you very much for adding value to this conversation and my audience. Appreciate it gentlemen, both of you. God bless your families.
RAMSEY: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, lot of politicians, right?
CUOMO: Lot of leaders, though, no, not so much. You hear noise about the protests, noise about how the President's handling it. It's easy to pick on him. He makes it easy for you, right? How do we get to a better place? Let's take that on next.
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CUOMO: Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was asked about President Trump's response to the protests. I want you to see how he answered it.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have Donald Trump now calling for military action against protestors. We saw protestors tear-gassed yesterday to make way for a presidential photo-op.
I'd like to ask you what you think about that. And if you don't want to comment, what message do you think you're sending?
(JUSTIN TRUDEAU STUNNED INTO SILENCE OVER TRUMP'S USE OF MILITARY FORCE ON AMERICANS TO CLEAR WAY FOR PHOTO-OP)
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We all watch in horror and consternation what's going on in the United States.
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