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All Four Fired Officers Charged In Floyd Killing; Former Defense Secretary Mattis Accuses Trump Of Trying To Divide Americans And Making A Mockery Of The Constitution; Obama Urges All Mayors To Review Use-Of-Force Policies. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 03, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: We're watching, obviously, the scenes in - in New York City. As you know, there's now a curfew in New York, begins at - at 8 o'clock each night. It's now an hour into that curfew. The protests continue.
Bakari Sellers, David Axelrod, thank you.
The protests continue, as does our coverage. Chris Cuomo joins us now for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: I cannot let an important day like this go. We have charges in this big case. We have to celebrate the good things and the bad things that come in life, especially during hard times.
You are a good friend, and a great colleague, and this is your first birthday as a father. And even in the midst of crisis, we got to hold on to the sweet moments, and remember the good things that happen, because they make life worth living.
And I told you before, and I will tell you again, your life will never be sweeter, will never mean more, now that you have this little man, Wyatt, in your life. Happy birthday, brother.
COOPER: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it. Thank you.
CUOMO: Big daddy! Thank you very much to Anderson Cooper.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
We cannot forget the sweet moments in life because they make us remember why life is worth living. And justice is one of those moments that makes life all the sweeter. All four officers involved in last week's killing of George Floyd in Minnesota were charged today.
Now, there's a new second-degree murder charge against the first officer taken into custody, Derek Chauvin. That is the guy with his knee on Floyd's throat. The three others now all face charges of aiding and abetting second-degree murder, and aiding and abetting manslaughter in the second-degree. Now, this is an interesting array of charges as was the change to the charge for Officer Chauvin. They will be met with relief by many. However, they will also present challenges for the prosecution even with the video. I'll take you through that.
And tonight, there's another case being made, and it is said to be the truth about this President. Retired General James Mattis, the original Trump Defense Secretary, said what he has seen in the last few days of unrest forced him to tell you all what he says he knows to be true.
Mattis writes, "Some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered, under any circumstance, to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens, much less to provide a bizarre photo-op for the elected Commander-in-Chief.
Donald Trump is the first President, in my lifetime, who does not try to unite the American people, does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us.
We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution."
Listen, none of us has ever heard somebody in that kind of position say something like this about the President they served. We have former Cabinet Secretary, this one from the Obama Administration, former Homeland Security Chief, Jeh Johnson, with us tonight.
But first, I'm going to get to you in a second, Jeh, I want to check in with Jason Carroll in Brooklyn, where protesters are facing off with police.
What's going on?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well it started out as a peaceful protest, and this is how it has ended. You can see there are dozens of police officers here now.
CARROLL (voice-over): Let me just sort of give you sort of rundown of what happened here. Basically, we had several hundred marchers who came up to Cadman Plaza. You know that area, Chris.
CUOMO: Yes.
CARROLL (voice-over): It's where you've got several government buildings, including the Brooklyn courthouse.
There was a standoff with police. At that point, the demonstrators turned around, and were heading away. They surrounded a police car. And, at that point, a number of officers came, and the situation devolved into what you see now. We've seen police make several arrests.
They say that some of the protesters, who were here, confronted police in an aggressive manner. And so, at this point, we still have a standoff. We've been moved to the backside of this flank of police officers that you see here in front of that. And I hope we can get a view of that.
There are still a couple hundred protesters who are on the other side. So, the standoff now continues. But, a few moments ago, it was a number of officers, who had rushed in, made several arrests of demonstrators, who were out here.
And, you know, this is exactly what some of these demonstrators did not want to see happen. Some of them were chanting, "Peaceful demonstration! Peaceful demonstration!" They did not want to see this.
CUOMO: Right.
CARROLL: Because they feel like, when something like this happens, it's really taking - taking away the - the message that they're trying to--
CUOMO: Right.
CARROLL: --trying to achieve here, Chris.
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CUOMO: Well, and also, look, let's be honest, Jason. There a lot of people, especially in politics, who want to paint the demonstrators as the problem. They want to treat the symptom of this unrest, and ignore the illness of what brought people out into the streets.
And they don't have to be tranquil. They can yell. They can blame. They can shame. They can be angry. They can be up in the face. When they cross the line, and it becomes illegal, and dangerous to others, you're going to have a problem. And yes, they do lose leverage.
Jason, keep your eye on it. Let us know what happens. I'll come back to you right away.
Let's go to Jeh Johnson right now. This is a man well aware of the line behind righteous indignation and lawlessness, as somebody who was in charge of keeping the Homeland safe.
Do you believe, my friend, that what we're seeing in the country right now will get us to a different place or is it more of the same?
JEH JOHNSON, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA, FORMER DEFENSE DEPARTMENT GENERAL COUNSEL: First Chris, it's good to see you back in the chair.
CUOMO: Thank you.
JOHNSON: Particularly in these trying times.
I believe that we're at a tipping point in our nation's history. I believe that the events of Minneapolis last week were finally a wake- up call to all Americans about what many Americans have been saying now for years that "Black Lives Matter!" and "I can't breathe!"
And we saw a vivid display of that last week. The grievance is real. The grievance is valid. And all of us have now seen the evidence of it. We're seeing demonstrations across this country like we haven't seen since 1968.
And so, action is required. It is unfortunate that, right now, our national leadership, elected national leadership seems unwilling, or un-capable, of addressing this situation, and trying to bring people together.
But the American people themselves seem to have awoken to this great tragedy, and this great injustice, and are engaging in the finest traditions of peaceful protests.
Protests, let's not forget, is a form, as Martin Luther King said, is a form of language for those who feel that their voices are not heard.
And we're seeing this right now across this country. Some of it is crossing into violence. And violence gives the other side of the debate the upper hand, and cedes the moral high ground.
So, I'm pleased to see that much of the violence is receding. But those concerned about what's happening continue.
CUOMO: Jeh, have you ever heard anything like what General of - Retired General Mattis just said about the President he served?
JOHNSON: I know Jim Mattis. I know his values. I know he's a student of history. My faith in Jim Mattis is basically "River Deep, Mountain High." And I was not at all surprised to see what Jim had to say today.
He's a man of - he's a man of faith. He's a man of character. I was not at all surprised. But it is stunning to see someone, who served in a President's cabinet, just a little over a year ago, give such a stunning review.
CUOMO: Do you agree with the assessment that this is a President, who doesn't even try to unite the country? And if so, what do you think he's trying to do?
JOHNSON: Chris, over and over again, in - in this context, and in others, this President seems interested in only playing to his base. It's as if you're talking to - you're in a room full of 100 people, and you decide to only talk to 20 or 30 of them, rather than all 100 of them.
Whether it's the subject of immigration, whether it's this, whether it's COVID, this President seems only to be interested in talking to his base, and solidifying his base.
Every other President, in my lifetime, has, as Jim said today, tried to bring people together, particularly in challenging times like this. This is the time to bind the wounds together, to bind us together, and heal the wounds.
CUOMO: In terms of what should be happening now, you know, the President's making a political play here that this is all you guys, this is the Democrats that are in these fringe groups that are creating all this chaos to destroy our democracy, and that these protesters are doing bad things, and even wraps up people like me in it.
I say "Hey, nobody said that protest has to be peaceful," by meaning that passive and tranquil. People should be angry. They should voice. They should blame. They should shame. That's all allowed in America, even if it makes people uncomfortable.
Do you believe there is a role for Federal Forces, troops, in dealing with what you see on America's streets?
JOHNSON: Well let's be careful how we characterize it. There is a role for law enforcement.
Law enforcement is there to preserve and protect the peace. Law enforcement is there to protect and serve, and protect even the demonstrators, even those engaging in peaceful protests.
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Supplementing local law enforcement, are the National Guard, controlled by the governors, when it's appropriate, when you have large-scale protests, demonstrations, of the type we are seeing right now.
What is not appropriate, and what is wholly contrary to American values, is to deploy the active-duty military to the streets of the United States. There are laws against what we refer to as a Posse Comitatus. It's a law in 1878. And it is part of our values.
And it's, quite frankly, one of the reasons why we have such high regard for our U.S. Military because we keep them cabined to overseas conflicts. They're not on the streets of the cities of the United States.
And I'm pleased to see that the Current Secretary of Defense, today, recognized that the Insurrection Act of 1807, which the White House floated two days ago, is wholly inappropriate, and it is a measure of last resort, which is something that I've been saying now for 48 hours.
CUOMO: You know, we're having a scene right now.
An officer is getting carried away by a couple fellow officers, after trying to break up what is this conflict between demonstrators in this situation, on the street, and whoever else is involved in the police.
You know, it's bothersome enough to see when it's police versus citizens. I just think the optics of seeing military versus citizens would fuel a lot of things that America does not need to be about.
Jeh, thank you very much, Jeh Johnson, reflecting on what it takes to keep this country safe, and the state of play we're in right now. I hope you're right. I hope that this country is coming together to take a step in the right direction. Thank you for being part of that. JOHNSON: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, we're going to keep an eye on this.
This is ugly, and it's tough to see, because you have the police on the outside. We don't know who's on the inside. We don't know if this is an agitation thing, if this was protestors that got into it with police or why, we don't know.
We're just showing you what's there in Brooklyn right now. People are certainly being arrested. As we get information, we'll come to it.
Now, you have to agree with Jeh Johnson that this is about more than one incident.
However, all eyes in this nation are on what happens in these select cases, OK? For instance, there are criminal charges in Atlanta for the six police officers involved in the violent arrests of two college students during a protest march about George Floyd.
The Police Chief already fired two of them. Tonight, she is telling her Department that she was blindsided by the criminal case. What does the Mayor of Atlanta say about that?
Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms is here with us next.
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CUOMO: And then, the rain came. Here, in New York, we're monitoring the situation.
The rain has definitely made a difference. It is causing people to disperse. You have people who are lined up for protests that may or may not happen. You see the officers there with bikes. They're using them as a phalanx protect right now in Manhattan.
But they're also using them to try to do counter surveillance on a lot of these outside agitator groups that have been using Citi Bikes, and - and other public forms of transportation, to kind of coordinate their movements.
So, the rain's coming in waves. We'll see what that does. There's Police Chief Monahan right there.
Now, in Brooklyn, we were watching a standoff between what was going on between police officers and some protesters there. Here, you can see the rain. Is this now in Brooklyn? Are we still in Manhattan? OK.
So, this is a different angle. There was a huge group of protesters and police, on top of each other, and there were certainly arrests being made. But the rain is going to change things.
For those who were here for legitimate reason, we'll see. We'll see if they come back after the rain. It's not unusual to see things change with the weather. We'll stay on it.
Today was a big day any way you look at it. Former President Barack Obama called for action from mayors across the country today, amid the protests and unrest. Here was his message.
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BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So today, I am urging every mayor in this country to review your use-of-force policies with members of your community and commit to report on planned reforms. What are the specific steps you can take?
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CUOMO: Now, that is a good idea. But does it work? And if not, why? Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms of Atlanta joins us now.
It's good to see you, Ms. Mayor.
MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, (D) ATLANTA, GEORGIA: Nice to see you too, Chris.
CUOMO: You wrote in a New York Times op-ed, "Although as Mayor, the Chief of Police reports to me, in that moment, I knew what every other parent to a Black kid in America knows. I couldn't protect my son. To anyone who saw him, he was simply who he is, a black man-child in the Promised Land that we all know as America."
And you were trying to draw the dichotomy that you have power, but you're not all-powerful. The idea that mayors can oversee the police, of course, they do, by Charter and Constitution.
But, in terms of making a difference, is reviewing police procedures going to get us to a better place?
BOTTOMS: I think everything that we do right now, Chris, is a step toward that better place.
And certainly, we need to look at all of our policies. If kneeling on someone's neck is a permissible policy, in a police department, then certainly, that's something that needs to be reviewed.
That's not the case in Atlanta. But it doesn't mean that we don't have something on the books that we just aren't thinking about that's top of mind that we don't need to make some changes with.
And so, I was glad that President Obama made that call to action, and just very happy to be able to accept it today.
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We're already forming a Commission in our City. I'm signing an Executive Order to do that. And I'm going to ask for some immediate recommendations in the next 14 days.
CUOMO: Very telling video came out of Atlanta of them pulling some kids out of a car, during a demonstration. They broke the glass. They used the TASER. It, you know, it was - it was a very clear view of what was going on. A bunch of officers were pulled off the street, fired.
The Police Chief says though that the idea of a criminal case surprised her. Do you believe criminal cases were warranted in that situation?
BOTTOMS: Well, you know, Chris, we have an independently-elected District Attorney.
And so, what was before us was the decision of whether or not to fire those officers. We spent around four hours on Sunday reviewing body cam video, made the decision to fire two offer - officers that it was very clear had dispatched their TASERs.
And then, we were going to take more time to look at additional footage, and make decisions on the other officers. And so, I think what we're seeing is a shift in America right now.
I was surprised that charges were brought. The District Attorney called me, around 9 o'clock, and told me that he was going to be bringing charges, at around a 11 o'clock. Not surprised that the charges weren't warranted. But we don't usually see them being brought that quickly.
CUOMO: So, the question becomes what does that all mean? And, by the way, right now we're looking in Brooklyn, or in Manhattan, right now, but I was showing you the video in question in Atlanta.
Is the speed with which the charges came a reflection of it being done the right way? Or is - and that usually, we wait too long, because they're police officers, and the system doesn't treat them the way it treats its citizens.
Or is it a reflection of us playing politics in a moment of crisis, and a prosecutor trying to gain political advantage, as an elected servant, to do something that may be popular, at the expense of the police?
BOTTOMS: You know, as it relates to this, I can't speak to the motives of the District Attorney. But what I can say is that even the - the quickness in which the two officers was fired - were fired is a shift for us. But it was also a shift because I normally wouldn't sit in the room for four hours, and review body cam video footage either. But I think it speaks to where we are in America. But specifically, in terms of the swiftness, I think the District Attorney will have to speak to that.
CUOMO: Mayor, stay with me.
I want to expand the panel - panel, and include even more better minds in this, to have a wide-ranging discussion about this. So, I want to bring in - bring in Preet Bharara, obviously of United States Southern District Federal Prosecutor fame, and Van Jones as well.
So, we're going to take a quick break. And then we'll come back with these three great minds, who understand the politics, the application of law in society, and how to lead, and how does all of that get us to a new normal? Next.
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CUOMO: All right, first, let's check in with what's happening in New York right now.
Big sheets of rain are coming through the area. That's going to make a difference in terms of the state of the play on the streets, no matter how genuine and passionate your interest in being out there.
Shimon Prokupecz is on the street right now.
How did the rain change things? It moves through in waves, obviously. What's it like now?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well what really - it's not raining now, Chris.
CUOMO: Right.
PROKUPECZ: But what really changed everything here, this is the group of protesters that we were marching with earlier, peaceful protesters.
We are way past the curfew hour. And there were hundreds here, and the police just decided enough was enough. I was - just talked to the Chief, Terence Monahan, who you had on the show yesterday.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): He said what happened here was they - they've been allowing them to march through the streets. They've been allowing them to march on the sidewalks.
And it came time for curfew. And it was - it was enough already. And they've just decided that it was time to enforce the curfew.
You can see several people here were arrested. We're - we're told about 60 arrests. And they let a lot of people go, Chris, actually, hundreds of people were allowed to leave. But they did arrest 60.
PROKUPECZ: So, what you're seeing here is the NYPD saying "We are now enforcing the curfew, whether you're peaceful demonstrator or not, we're going to move in."
I want to show you one other thing, quickly, Chris.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
PROKUPECZ: These uniforms that the NYPD here is wearing, this is new. This is something that they just started. They've had. But they've only put it to use yesterday. You could see it's a lot more protective gear.
But these are the guys on the bikes. They're the Apprehension Team. They go in on these demonstrations. And when it's time to make arrests, they go in, you know, dressed like that, to protect themselves.
But I just thought it was interesting, since this is really new. I saw them for the first time yesterday. And the Chief told me that yes that yesterday was the first time that they had worn these. So, I thought it was interesting.
But things here are now wrapping up, and they're going to take away some of the people they arrested, and they're going to be charged with violating the curfew. So, they'll probably get summonses and then they'll be released.
CUOMO: All right, but no looting, no serious violence, and it's good to see those officers wearing uniforms that have a badge on them. You know, you see the shield.
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
CUOMO: You know, these are - these forces that are coming out in places, and don't have any, you know, identification on them, a little more Orwellian and menacing.
Shimon, stay aware, stay safe, and get back to us.
All right, let's get back to this bigger conversation, OK? We have Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms in Atlanta.
Thank you for staying with us, Mayor. We have Preet Bharara, who of course led the Southern District here, and understands the application of law to society, as well as anybody, and Van Jones, the understanding of which way we want to go here.
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Van, let me start with you. I'm a little sideways with the President and some of his boys over the idea of "A protest must be peaceful." And I say "No."
By peaceful, they mean passive, and that's not what we're supposed to be here in America. If you're angry, be angry. If you want to yell, yell. You want to blame? Blame. You want to shame? Shame.
And it seemed to me that the President is saying "No, no, you guys are all the looters, and you're all terrible things. And unless you're passive and quiet, you're doing something wrong."
But, right now, it's just a bunch of White guys arguing about it. Van, in terms of what an OK protest is, and what's too much, and what's not enough, how do you see it?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well listen, hurt people holler. Hurt people holler. You're hurt, it's - and you're being hurt by lawlessness, and the ranks of law enforcement, it's really not--
CUOMO: Is that the President?
V. JONES: It's not - I'm sorry. It's not--
CUOMO: Is that the President calling right now, Van? Is that the President? Maybe you could check it.
V. JONES: I don't think so. I don't think so.
CUOMO: OK.
V. JONES: I tell you the - it - yes, honestly, you got law enforcement that's supposed to enforce the law, increasingly corrupted by lawlessness, lawless behavior, people flagrantly violating the law, even when they got on body cams. So, people are hurt, and hurt people holler.
So, I don't think it's appropriate for the - the Commander-in-Chief, the Head of the Society - of the Society to then say "You're going to have to sit on a white hot stove, awaiting justice, and we're going to tell you how you're going to express your pain."
I think you draw the line at property damage. I think you draw the line at, you know, hurting people. I think you - those are the lines that you draw.
And, I got to tell you, today I think, it's a marathon through mud that we're trying to run. It's a marathon through mud. Every step is hard won. Every step is tough. But every step matters. And we had a big step today, getting those officers charged.
CUOMO: Preet, you know, when the first charges came out, against Chauvin, and they went with third-degree murder, I don't want to get too in the weeds, but depraved mind murder is a scary thing for prosecutors.
Those statutes would divine - decided pre-narrowly, sometimes they're applied too generally. You don't get a lot of convictions on them, as a result.
But now with a move to second-degree murder, which brings in criminal negligence, and incorporates the other officers on that level, what do you think of the case, even with the videotape? Do you see this as a slam dunk with police officers involved?
PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well we never say slam dunk when we're talking about criminal cases, in this country. As long as it's a fair trial, any case can go in any direction. You can have a case that's strong, you think is overwhelming, and the jury might acquit, or you might get a hung jury.
But I think it's a pretty strong case. I think you could have made the argument that you could have brought a second-degree murder charge that, based on an intentional - intent to commit the murder, that's not what happened here.
There are two parts to the statute, again, not to get too much into the weeds.
But this is an unintentional murder charge, essentially taking what was a felony, a third-degree assault, and - in the Minnesota statute, if you're responsible for a third-degree assault, during which you caused the death of somebody, that's second - second-degree murder.
And I think given what we saw in the videotape, and what the other testimony likely is to be, I think it's pretty strong. You can never say for sure. But it seems strong to me based on my experience.
CUOMO: They're going to have to show that this officer knew that what he was doing was likely to cause serious injury, or worse, and continued doing it anyway, and that the officer standing by had good reason to know the same.
BHARARA: Yes look, the evidence is, what we've seen so far, and maybe it gets stronger, when you look at the other witnesses, maybe it gets weaker.
But it tends to get stronger that, at some point, at the 6-minute or 7-minute mark, one of the officers noticed that the person that - that George Floyd wasn't moving, and checked for a pulse, and didn't find one. And yet, the knee remained on the neck for another 2 minutes.
So, at that point, and there was an adjustment of the knee, and people in - in the crowd were saying "You're going to kill the guy," he kept saying, I think, 16 times in 5 minutes, "I can't breathe." Anybody who has lived in this country, in law enforcement, understands what happened with Eric Garner, when he said multiple times, "I can't breathe."
And so, you know, you could make an argument to the jury, I think, very powerfully that at some point, during that 9 minutes, maybe not at the beginning, but at some point, the officer in question, Chauvin, intended to kill the victim, and the other officers helped him do it.
CUOMO: Right.
Mayor, just for some context, you know, we've been talking now about 3.5 minutes. Can you imagine being Floyd, and having a knee on your throat, this entire time, of this conversation? It was about only halfway of what he had to endure.
Now, you get a difficult balance here, as a person in power, where people see that videotape, and they say "That could have been me, and I've seen too many of these, and I'm outraged, and I'm going to the streets."
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And, at the same time, they then get judged for their outrage, as if they're the problem. "Ooh! Look how angry these people are. Ooh, boy! This is - this is the problem right here. Look at these guys."
And no matter who does the looting, you know, the Brown faces and the Black faces will get caught up in that as being a problem. The symptoms become more important than the illness. How do you balance that as a leader?
BOTTOMS: You know, it's tough Chris. And this is something that you're watching so many leaders, across this country, figure out in real time. And the only thing that I know to do is to be true to who I am.
And, by that, I mean, I have to articulate my pain. I have to articulate my frustration and anger. And I think that is what so many people, across this country, have wanted, for so long.
So, when I hear Secretary Mattis speak out against Donald Trump, that's what we have been looking for, and asking for, people of good conscience to say, "I know you're hurting. And I may not have understood it on yesterday. But I get it today. And I'm not going to be silent anymore."
CUOMO: Van, last word to you.
What do you think is a stronger message? What Mattis said about the President, or what the President says about the people in the streets? What do you think has more persuasiveness with the American people come November?
V. JONES: I think what has more persuasiveness is just the truth of this Movement that's growing up that has, you know, African-Americans who are hurt, who have - who are speaking out, who are not just marching.
You know, there's 40 million African-Americans, you know, 0.001 percent are marching, and 0.0000001 percent have ever thrown a brick. African-Americans are engaging with now 20 million, 30 million, 40 million, 50 million White allies, who have been awakened to the need to do something.
And - and the political class is going to have to completely recalibrate in both parties. Frankly, the corporations are as well. There's a new consensus that this is a real problem, and something needs to be done about it, and that's the most powerful thing in the United States right now.
CUOMO: Preet, with your experience, what do you think will do more to make the kinds of changes we want to see? Law or culture?
BHARARA: You need both, oh, my goodness, you know.
I was a U.S. Attorney for 7.5 years. And everyone thought, from time to time, the prosecutors can solve every problem, whether it's public corruption, or insider trading, or other kinds of, you know, drug activity, or violent conduct.
Prosecutors can help. You can hope that you bring a case against this officer, and other officers, and that might cause another officer in the future to think twice, and to be deterred, and that's very, very important.
But, at the same time, you need to change the culture, which also prosecutors can sometimes do, if you do a pattern-and-practice investigation, get a consent decree, investigate a Police Department as a whole.
But remember, even if you have strong laws on the books, if you have racism, in the hearts and minds of people, who are involved in law enforcement, they can break those laws, and suffer the consequences.
You know, none of those things is going to bring George Floyd back. We don't only want to hold people accountable. We want to prevent these things from happening in the future.
And that takes a lot of people, in politics, like the Mayor, and like Van Jones, who can work across the aisle. Not just good laws. Good people plus good laws and good culture.
CUOMO: Mayor, what is your best cause for hope today?
BOTTOMS: Joe Biden being President in 2020, November of 2020, because I think it's a - will be a monumental shift for our country, and there would be a signal to our country that it's time for us to heal.
I am so inspired, when I see protesters, across this country, and when I see police officers kneeling with protesters, across this country, because people are saying, "I hear you, and I feel you, and I want something better for our country too," and I think that's what we have to look forward to in November of 2020. CUOMO: All right, Mayor, thank you very much. Preet, Van, thank you for having the conversation. It's one of about a 100 we need to have on this issue for it to resonate with anybody in any real way. So, let's get started. Thank you very much.
I should have said "Let's get after it." But even I can't remember my own slogan sometimes. There's such weightier matters around us.
And, you know, you heard the Mayor there. For her, hope is a Democrat winning the election, Joe Biden.
OK, voting, absolutely one of the tools that changes our culture. No question about it. You get the ability to put the people in there, who are reflecting, at least in their campaign, what it is you wanted to hear.
Voters just made their voices loud and clear in a City where the killing of a Black teen, years ago, set off weeks of nationwide protests. I was there for every step. And I remember so many people in the community saying "When will we have a leader that reflects our head and our heart?"
I want to introduce you to the new Mayor-elect of Ferguson, Missouri, a history-maker with big plans for the future, next.
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CUOMO: Protesters are there, signaling the hope that we could be at a turning point for reform. The City of Ferguson is making its own strides in that way.
Last night, the City elected Ella Jones. She is the first woman Mayor and she is the first Black Mayor for Ferguson. Her election win comes nearly 6 years after the shooting of Michael Brown, whose death helped solidify the Black Lives Matter Movement. The Mayor-elect joins us now.
Congratulations.
MAYOR-ELECT ELLA JONES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: Thank you.
CUOMO: 68 percent of the 21,000 residents are Black in Ferguson. But you are the first African-American Mayor for them. Why?
E. JONES: Because the people want change. And they believe that I am a change agent, and that I symbolize hope, and that the people will have a voice, and the people will feel like they are included.
CUOMO: Identity matters. There's no question about it, in terms of feeling pain, understanding a community. But as you well know, there are protesters, who aren't sure that it matters anymore, that the power structure is what it is.
[21:45:00]
While it's good to have an African-American, in a predominantly African-American area, representing them doesn't mean things are going to get better. Sure, they might get better, but color no longer guarantees change.
Your reaction?
E. JONES: Things will get better because once you finish protesting, someone need to put their name on the ballot, so they can have a seat at the table, and help bring about change. Change is not going to happen overnight. But when people work for it, get out and vote, change will happen.
CUOMO: You think Ferguson is a different place than it was during the Michael Brown tragedy?
E. JONES: Yes, it is. First, Ferguson is beginning to make a lot of strides.
We have a Police Chief that works in the neighborhood with our youth. We have the consent decree, where we have a Consent Decree Coordinator. We are working to compliance for the consent decree. And it is better.
CUOMO: In terms of what it means that Michael Brown happened, 6 years ago, and now here we are again with George Floyd, for people who see it, and say, "This is it. It's just, it's inexorable, Madam Mayor- elect. It's just going to keep happening. It's the way this country is," what's your cause for hope?
E. JONES: We have - if you lose hope, then you have nothing to live for. We must keep hope alive.
And the only way we can do that is continue to have courageous conversations, getting the police officers to sit down at the table, talk with us, make certain that the people feel like they are being served, instead of being hunted.
So, it makes a difference, if people keep on believing, keep on hoping, and elect quality leadership. That's the only way change is going to come.
CUOMO: Are better days in the hands of the majority? Because even though they're not the ones feeling the brunt of the inequities, they are in power.
They do have the control, so that even if you want to blame minorities for their own problems, it's still the majority that is going to have to deal with it, and have to change it, for things to change.
How do you get that through to people and how do you make that a reality?
E. JONES: You make it a reality by having people to take ownership of their life, having people take ownership of their destination.
When we - you have people working together, and they want to keep their neighborhoods stabilized, then you will have people begin to see that it takes everyone working together to move any community forward. And without people working together, you're going to continue to have chaos.
CUOMO: How is Ferguson affected by what is happening in Minnesota? What do you see in your own community?
E. JONES: Well, on last Saturday night, we had a big protest here. The peaceful - the peaceful protesters went home. And then we had another group that came in and destroyed a lot of businesses.
We cannot continue to allow people to come in and destroy our businesses. The more we - the more we try to move forward, this was a setback, because on Sunday morning, all the residents was out, cleaning up the mess.
And so, therefore, we have to continue to tell people that Ferguson is changing. It's a nice place to raise your family. It's a nice place to work. But until people realize that, every time something happen in United States, they're going to believe Ferguson is ground zero.
CUOMO: I remember being on those streets, and seeing what happened, and by whom, and how complex it was, on the street. And most importantly, the heartbreak and the pain when there were no charges brought against Darren Wilson.
And there was heartbreak in that community because they thought it was clear just like they thought it was clear in Minnesota. Of course, the difference is videotape. How important is it that there were charges and that there might be a prosecution?
E. JONES: It's very important because it sends a message to the police officer who are not good officers that when you do something wrong to a citizen, there will be someone around taking pictures.
And those videos help other people understand that we need to get rid of bad police officers. So, any time someone is doing something wrong, it's good for someone to video it.
CUOMO: Mayor-elect Ella Jones, I hope that all your dreams for your community come true and that there's work among all races, colors, and creeds, to make it so. Good luck to you.
E. JONES: Thank you.
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CUOMO: All right, luckily, there are leaders still. We call Ella Jones an Ameri-CAN, why, because she represents positive change from a community that wants their destiny in their own hands.
She understands pain. She understands the pain, and how to put purpose to it. That is leadership. Is it easier for her by identifying by race with the community? Yes, in some ways. But you can do it otherwise.
But what about presidents who completely, and intentionally, are tone- deaf to it? Do we have a President who literally wants to divide us? That's what his former Defense Secretary just said, former General, his handpicked former General.
So, what have we learned here? And what do we now know has to change? I have an argument, next.
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CUOMO: Here's the proof. Here's the proof of why the President talks about everything that's going on in the country right now the way he does.
I just got this fake email from Newt Gingrich to raise money for Trump. And it says, "Chris, we need you to help us crush the Left-wing mob." And then it goes on to describe how the Left-wing is creating all this violence to destroy the President.
Nothing in here about the injustice for minorities, nothing in here about what needs to change in this country, except giving money to help keep the Left away from the President. That's what it's all about.
And my argument is we need a new normal. You all know a fundamental disservice is done to too many in this country. You know it. We must face this truth. Not for others, but for all of us, the whole. Only when all are allowed to contribute fully will America be at full strength.
This new normal demands, that we own the truth that we have leaders that are guided by the truth, truths that we believe to be self- evident, that all are created equal.
But that can't happen without truth, and certainly not with a President who insists on denying, defying and lying about what we all see as the reality. You're told "Teargas isn't teargas," even though his own CDC defines it as such. There it is.
You are told the protests were the problem. They weren't peaceful, despite the fact that we all watched it on live TV, who was chased away and for what, that your fellow citizens, they weren't beaten back for a fraudulent photo-op.
There he is. There he is your champion of law and order, while all along ignoring the law, and reveling in disorder.
We're told this President regularly condemns racists, when he has done more to embrace bigotry than any in modern history.
"The virus isn't that bad. It's a hoax from the Democrats. And the Democrats are doing the looting, you know, and making up a problem with the justice system. And both problems will magically disappear if he's re-elected."
This man sees more than a 100,000 of your fellow Americans dying as a success, and George Floyd's death as a tragedy, but says nothing of the pattern of injustice that caused it, and paints those who call it out as the problem.
He is a font of factless frauds, like this moment today.
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KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President wanted to send a very powerful message.
Like Churchill, we saw him inspecting the bombing damage.
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CUOMO: Churchill inspecting? In that metaphor, isn't she comparing American citizens to Nazis? Put that to the side.
Churchill walked among his countrymen. This President only feels safe enough to step outside, when military vehicles encircle a church, known for its social justice ministry. He goes to church not to show his faith, but to merely con Christians.
But even those poll numbers are dropping. Maybe they're finally seeing that a man who wants people of faith to stand against those seeking justice is a man who is anathema to Christ's message that this man may hold the Good Book in his hand, but he does not hold its message in his heart.
Truth, this nation was founded on truths that are held to be self- evident. And the truth demands, at this critical time, that we call out this President's insistence on divide and concur.
Don't take it from me. Take it from someone who this President celebrated, Retired General and Trump Defense Secretary, James Mattis.
He called this President unique - uniquely, rather, divisive. He said that Donald Trump is the first President, in his lifetime, "Who does not try to unite the American people. He doesn't even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us."
The General there was echoing the words from the original "Don't Be a Sucker" war department film. And boy, do they ring true! Listen.
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("DON'T BE A SUCKER"/NATIONAL ARCHIVES/1945)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must never let ourselves be divided by race, or color or religion.
Here we have personal freedom. We have liberty. And these are not just fancy words. This is a practical and priceless way of living. But we must work at it, we must guard everyone's liberty or we can lose our own.
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CUOMO: It's why I say again, in America, people don't have to protest in only the ways that Trump and his followers like. What they call "Peaceful" means passive. "Be quiet. Go home." Passive people don't find progress.
Now, you have to ask, is that why Trump wants these people to be passive, to just go home, so things can stay as they are?
Now, he and his pawns will hear my words, and twist them once again. "Cuomo's calling for violence." You know it's not true. Nobody is calling for looting or anything like that.
But you have to ask yourself, why are they so desperate to shut the truth down? Why say something that's as false as all their other lies? Because that's what they're about. The ones doing violence to our quest for a perfect Union are those who ignore what's happening on our streets--
