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Gen. Colin Powell Rebukes Trump Response to Nationwide Protests; NY Governor Cuomo Gives Update on Coronavirus Response, George Floyd Protests & Police Reform, Impact of Protests on Coronavirus; Dr. Lamar Hasbrouck Discusses Impact of Protests on Coronavirus Spread. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired June 08, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:31:18]

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GEN. COLIN POWELL, FORMER CHAIRMAN, JOINTS CHIEFS OF STAFF & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: We have a Constitution, and we need to follow that Constitution and the president's drifted away from it.

I am so proud of what these generals and admirals have done and others have done. But, you know, I didn't write a letter because I made my point with respect to Trump's performance some four years ago when he was running for office. And when I heard some of the things he was saying, it made it clear that I could not possibly vote for this individual.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Scathing critique there from retired general and former chairman of the Joint Chiefs and former secretary of state, Colin Powell. He's now the third former chairman of the Joint Chiefs rebuking President Trump's response to nationwide protests.

Powell also told CNN that now as he's looking forward he will be voting for Joe Biden in November.

And that all has clearly gotten under the president's skin. Taking to Twitter once again to attack Colin Powell calling him "weak," "real stiff" and "overrated."

But Powell is not even close to alone here. Joint Chiefs, I mentioned. But also this. He is now one of a growing list of military voices condemning the president here.

We have much more to talk about with this, but I'm going to talk over to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo giving an update on phase one of reopening.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): -- and the day that I am so glad to see finally come. Day 100. Day 100 since we had the first coronavirus case in New York, first coronavirus case. That's when we started counting. Day 100.

When we first started, all the experts, I talked to all the global experts, people who had studied this across the world, and I saw, what's going to happen, where are we going to go. Nobody knew. Nobody knew if you could control the spread of the virus. Nobody knew how fast you could control the spread of the virus.

And they all said the same thing. Well, it's going to depend on what people do. It's going to depend on what people do. It's going to depend on whether or not people take it seriously, people accept the warnings, people understand the virus, they understand how serious it is. And I am just so proud of how New Yorkers have responded.

Look, I can say this. I'm a born and bred New Yorker all my life. We can be a tough crew. And, New Yorkers heard the message. New Yorkers did what they had to do. They did it with discipline.

And if you had told me 100 days ago that we would be reopening when we didn't even know how bad it was going to get -- I mean, we had some dire predictions. Remember what those early projection models said, that it would overwhelm our hospital system by doubling the capacity in the hospital system.

We had -- we have 50,000 hospital beds in the state of New York. They were projecting we would need over 100,000 hospital beds. It was frightening.

But New Yorkers did it. New Yorkers did it. It's that simple.

We said thank you yesterday. We lit up all the city and state landmarks with colors of the state to say thank you because we're not out of the woods but we are on the other side certainly.

And that's why we're starting the reopening in New York City. We started it all across the other regions of the state.

But I want to thank the people for what they did. New Yorkers always rise to the occasion, always. They rose to the occasion after 9/11. In many ways, New Yorkers, I think, represent courage and unity. And when things are tough, New Yorkers are tougher. And that's what they did here.

[11:35:15]

And I'm so proud to be governor of New York. And I'm so proud to be a New Yorker. And I want to say thank you to the people of the state.

I also want to thank all the essential workers, the police officers, the firefighters, the health care workers, the nurses, the doctors, everyone who stepped up.

You know, if those essential workers hadn't showed up, you would have had total anarchy in society.

If those essential workers said, well, if it's so dangerous I'm going to stay home, too, I'm not going to open the grocery store, I'm not going to open pharmacy, I'm not going to drive the truck to bring the groceries to the grocery store, I'm not going to drive the train, I'm going to stay home like everyone else.

if they had done that and there was no food, no transportation, you would have seen bedlam. So God bless the essential workers.

I would also like to thank my team. And 100 days. They haven't had a day off. We've done these briefings every day for 100 days, sometimes twice a day. And it's been hard. It's been emotionally hard. It's been exhausting dealing with the unknown.

We've never gone through a period like this. We've gone through a lot, I've gone through a lot, but never anything like this. And they did an extraordinary job, and I want to thank them.

And I want to thank you guys for talking to me every day for 100 days. The joy of our interaction and our dialogue, the joy that I had dealing with you and the joy you had dealing with me. I think you had more joy but we can discuss that over a beer sometime.

But congratulations. We are back. We are back.

And not only are we back, but we went from the worst situation in the nation, frankly, one of the worst situations on the globe, to not only flattening the curve but to bending the curve.

Remember we talked about how we had to flatten the curve? That mean we had to stop increase. We didn't -- we didn't just stop the increase. We bent the curve and we brought the spread down dramatically.

You look at where the we are today, 100 days later, we are continuing our decline. The rest of the country is still spiking. How remarkable is that? How remarkable is that? So congratulations to New Yorkers.

It's also day 15 of the civil unrest after the murder of Mr. Floyd. And now we're dealing with the two situations simultaneously. And in many ways, they both then compound each other, right? It's not just the protests. It's protests happening during the COVID situation. So we have to deal with both.

The protests continued yesterday all across the state. They were, by and large, peaceful.

But the protesters are basically right. It's not just a New York State phenomenon or an American phenomenon. It's happening all across the globe. I mean, it is amazing. I was watching this morning, protests in Rome and Spain. It's all across the globe. And people are saying enough is enough.

And it is -- it is enough. It is enough. It's been the same point over and over and over again. Bring reforms to the criminal justice system. Bring reforms to policing. We've seen the same situation happen 20, 30, 40 times. How many times do you have to see the same situation before you act?

And we're going to act in the state of New York. Transparency of disciplinary records for police officers, what they call repeal of 50- A. Which, by the way, what 50-A says is the records of police officers will no longer be exempt from disclosure.

So the records of police officers will be like every other public employee, right? They will be like teachers. They will be like CSEA employees or D.C.-37 employees in New York City. Their records will be available. And if people made complaints about them, they will be in the record and they will be released.

Ban chokeholds. We went through it with Eric Garner. I mean, how many times? But pass a law that says that.

The attorney general, special prosecutor -- five years ago, I did an executive order that said the attorney general should investigate cases where police kill an unarmed person.

[11:40:12]

Why? Because a local district attorney -- and I have tremendous respect for the district attorneys. I was an assistant district attorney in Manhattan. But a district attorney works with that police force day in and day out. How do you expect the public to think that the local district attorney as an arbiter is going to be unbiased?

Attorney general, a statewide elected official who can do the investigation of police misconduct and give the people of the state confidence that it's a fair investigation and banning a false race- based 9/11 reports.

We worked with the legislature over the weekend. I think we have an agreement on the bills that are going to be introduced. If they pass the bills a we've discussed, I will sign the bills. And I will sign them as soon as they are passed.

I want to thank both of them for their leadership.

This is a difficult time. People are angry. People are angry on multiple issues and feelings are intense on multiple issues, so in the midst of it, you have to find out what's right rather than just what's politically expedient.

And I want to praise the Senate leader and the assembly leader, the speaker for their leadership. And I hope we have a good productive week this week.

But this is not about what an individual state can do. It's actually broader than that. New York State will take this legislative action. And I hope it then becomes a model for other states to follow.

We've done that in New York a number of times. We did it with marriage equality. We did it with free college tuition, raising the minimum wage. And New York acts and then it provides a spur for progressive action by the rest of the country. But this is also bigger than what states can do.

What this protest really is about is systemic racism and systemic injustice and systemic inequality. Yes, when it comes to policing, but, frankly, it's worse than just policing. It's the fundamental institutions in our society that systematize discrimination.

It's the fact we have two education systems, one for the rich and one for the poor. And poor children receive a different education than rich children because there's a gross funding disparity.

It's the lack of an affordable housing agenda where the federal government just doesn't provide affordable housing anymore. They used to provide Section 8 vouchers and used to call what is called Project Section 8 vouchers so you could build -- they used to provide public housing. That's all stopped. That's all stopped.

It's the health care system. What, we saw with COVID, that you have inequality in the health care system. And the neighborhoods, where the COVID ravaged, are the neighborhoods that had less health care to begin with.

That's not a coincidence. That's -- that's the fundamental cause of the injustice. And that's what we should be addressing along with policing issues.

And there's a moment to do this. There's a global moment, certainly a national moment for that change. Carpe diem, carpe momentum. Seize the moment, seize the moment. Change comes in a moment.

When did we pass gun safety? Right after Sandy Hook. Why? Because people said enough is enough. People are saying enough is enough again. Seize the moment and end the systemic injustice and inequality in education, health care, housing, policing, criminal justice.

Reopening of New York City, we did it all based on data and facts. There was no political ideology at work here. We're talking about a virus. The virus doesn't do Democrat or Republican, doesn't do liberal or conservative. It's based on facts. And we have followed the facts.

You look at where we are now with our testing results. On Sunday, we did 58,000 tests across the state. We're at 1.2 percent positive, the lowest level in the state since March 16th. That's a fact.

Over the past -- past few days, 58,000 tests we did on Sunday, 1.2 percent statewide. Saturday 60,000 tests 1.3. Friday, 77,000 tests and 1.4. And Thursday 66,000 tests.

[11:45:13]

Why are we reopening? Because these numbers say that we can. There's no guess. There's no ideology. Based on the numbers, we can reopen.

We are doing more tests than any state in the United States. We're doing more tests than any country on the globe per capita. That's why I have confidence saying to 19 million people we can do this.

Based on yesterday, 58,000 tests. That is a lot of tests. That is a large sample. And I feel confident making a decision on these numbers. Now, we can change the numbers, just like we changed the numbers the

first time and reduced them. New Yorkers get sloppy. You can see those numbers go back up because they are purely a function of behavior.

You tell me what New Yorkers do today, I'll tell you that number tomorrow, and we literally study it on a day-to-day basis.

If you look at yesterday's numbers, just yesterday across the state, New York City nine weeks ago, 59 percent were testing positive. Four weeks ago, 10 percent were testing positive. Two weeks ago, 4 percent were testing positive. And yesterday, 2 percent, just yesterday.

And you see the other numbers for the other regions, mid-Hudson 1 percent, Long Island 1 percent, western region 2 percent, and capital region 1 percent.

That's how we're making decisions. The Westchester and Hudson Valley will enter phase two on Tuesday. Long Island is on track to enter phase two on Wednesday.

What does phase one reopening mean? It means companies, businesses can reopen pursuant to specific guidelines. This is not reckless reopening. We know what happens when that is done. This is by the guidelines.

Construction and manufacturing, wear masks. No congregate meetings. In terms of businesses, curbside pickups. Curbside pickups only if inside is not practical. And that has to be with pre-arranged orders. You're just going into a store to pick up an order.

That's because you can't do curbside. That's all that is. Curbside, obviously in New York City is a different phenomenon than curbside in other markets with less traffic, but that's what store shopping is.

These guidelines work. They have been enacted in every other region in the state. Those other regions have entered phase one, followed these guidelines, and there has been no spike. We know that it works if it's followed.

So the same guidelines apply to New York City. And if we follow those guidelines in New York City, there should not be a spike, just like there hasn't been a spike across the rest of the state.

We're also going to keep a special eye on New York City to see what happens. We'll do 35,000 tests per day in New York City. Take a snapshot every day.

If you see any increase in the infection rate, then react immediately. And 35 tests -- 35,000 tests per day is a healthy snapshot, a healthy sample and then watch it literally every day and calibrate what you're doing.

Again, I'm asking all the protesters to please get tests. That is a new question that has been dropped into the mix. We had all these at- home measures and then we had thousands of people show up for protests. Did that -- did that affect the spread of the virus? We don't know. We don't know.

So I'm asking the protesters, please, go get a test it. It's free. It's available.

But there's a chance that you were in proximity to people.

Again, we've gone through this, what we call a super spreader. One person in a crowd of 100 people can infect dozens. We've seen it. Please, we have 15 testing sites in the New York City area that are prioritized just for protesters.

[11:50:09]

We are also focusing on the hot spot neighborhoods in New York. These are zip codes where we know there's a much higher infection rate than other parts of the city. And it's dramatically high.

Overall, the infection rate in New York City about 19 percent. Some of these communities are over 50 percent. So we're targeting these hot spots, more testing, more treatment in the hot spots and more awareness.

We're also setting up additional testing -- thank you very much, Northwell Health and SOMOS Community Care -- more testing sites in those zip code areas for people in those zip codes to get tested. So 240 testing sites alone in New York City.

So you can get a test. It doesn't cost anything. And there are 240 sites available so there's no reason not to do it. There's a Web site where you can go to the Web site, punch in your address, find the availability, call and set it up.

I'm asking the protesters to get tested and take it as a precaution, act as if you have been exposed. And you may want to tell people that, who you're interacting with. Stay away from people in a vulnerable population until you take a test and you know that you're not infected.

People in those zip codes where you have that high infection rate --

BOLDUAN: We are listening to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo talking about three important things right now.

First and foremost, he started off how he was applauding New Yorkers on day 100 from the first confirmed coronavirus case in the state saying we are not out of the woods but on the other side. That is a certainty. He said that as phase one in New York City is taking place of reopening starting just today.

The governor also talking about response to the protests that have been happening nationwide and in New York as well after the death of George Floyd in Minnesota and talking about the need for policing reforms. He says he's ready to sign the bills and laid out the reforms he would like to see and will sign it when they get to him.

And then talking about where part of the conversation is now, the combination of these two very important things happening in the nation and new fears about what the nationwide protests could mean for the spread of the coronavirus.

We have a doctor -- what doctors are now advising is 22 states seeing an uptick in cases and we'll talk about all of this after a quick break.

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[11:55:57]

BOLDUAN: As Governor Cuomo was talking about, there's growing concerns of the spread of the coronavirus and the recent protests we have seen for nearly two weeks across the country and what that all means.

Governor Cuomo putting it this way. He was basically asked a rhetorical question, did the protests have an effect on the spread of the virus, and his answer is, we don't know.

We do know that the CDC director last week said anyone who marched in recent protests, in his words, should highly consider getting tested.

The backdrop for all of this is that the number of confirmed cases in the United States is approaching two million while more than 110,000 people have died from the virus.

Joining me is Dr. Lamar Hasbrouck. He's an internist and former epidemiologist with the CDC.

Doctor, thank you so much for being here.

From a public health perspective, what is your reaction when you see -- we heard from Governor Cuomo and his view that we don't know the impact of the protests and the gatherings of the protesters over the last two weeks on the coronavirus.

But what's your reaction from a public health standpoint when you see the images of so many people gathering for protests over the past couple of weeks?

DR. LAMAR HASBROUCK, INTERNIST & FORMER CDC MEDICAL EPIDEMIOLOGIST: Well, I would say that context matters. I would say that each and every day individuals take kind of a risk assessment, a personal risk assessment and balancing their health and safety on one hand with the daily needs.

And this is why we see folks go out for groceries and gas and get on public transportation, take flights. So they're doing this risk assessment every single day.

And we know that when you look at a hierarchy of needs of food, shelter and income is up there. But human rights and breathing is at the top of the list as well.

So I think the difference here, if you want to compare it to spring break, spring break gatherings, folks are taking an informed and calculated risk and saying that, in this case, the risk is worth it. And I can't say I disagree with them.

BOLDUAN: Yes. When will we know if protests led to a spike in one place or another?

HASBROUCK: Well, you know, it will be a little bit to tease out because it's a coming together of a perfect storm, if you will.

We have the Memorial Day weekend, a lot of folks being lax and relaxed of precautions during that weekend. And then after that, we have been having a backdrop of states reopening and laxing -- some laxing of the precautions and things like that.

We know there's more testing, as the Governor Cuomo cited, and more testing going on as well. So all of that's kind of coming together, plus the protesters in these mass gatherings.

So you're not going to be able to just disaggregate the contribution. But we certainly know that, even though they're gathering, what I see from my eyes is most of those crowds are younger, meaning less than 50. And I know that they're outdoors and not indoors so the transmission rate is going to be somehow decreased that way.

I see many of them, if not the majority wearing face coverings, and I have to believe they're not actively sick. There's some mitigated factors happening. But at the end of the day, I think it's hard to tease out what contribution this is making.

BOLDUAN: That's a really interesting point.

As of today, we have -- when we look at the count, we see 22 states seeing a rise in new cases. We heard Governor Cuomo talking about how we're not out of woods, we are on the other side of this certainly.

This is a map we watch every -- week to week to see the direction that states are headed. And the trends here is what's really important. Florida, for example, Saturday, the state Department of Health reported a fifth straight day of more than 1,000 new cases.

Are we going to -- what do you see in that? There's constant fears, Doctor, of a second wave. Is this an ebb and a flow? Is this a natural progression of the virus? Is this something that concerns you?

HASBROUCK: It does concern me. I think what folks have to understand is we have been successful in squashing the curb or flattening the curve, but there's still all those cases yet to be identified under that cover.

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So it's going to be a very prolonged curve. Although, by flattening it, we ensure that we don't overwhelm the health system and the capacity the health system has.