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President Trump Tweets Martin Gugino Conspiracy Theory with Ties to Russian Propaganda; George Floyd Aided Christian Ministry; Interview with Houston Rockets' Thabo Sefolosha. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 09, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[10:30:43]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, sometimes on this broadcast, we will call out false, outrageous statements by the president. And this is one of those times.

The president, this morning, making an egregious claim without basis about a video of Buffalo, New York police officers clearly shoving to the ground a 75-year-old protestor. If you haven't seen this, just a warning, the video is disturbing.

Here's how it played out: line of officers, walking toward a 75-year- old man, a protestor there. He's pushed to the ground, as you can see in the video. He falls down. And then as you see in the lower left- hand corner there, he is bleeding from his ear. He's had a difficult recovery since then. We should also note, Poppy, that the police initially lied about this before video showed otherwise.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, they said he tripped. That man is Martin Gugino. He was taken to the hospital in critical condition. He is still in the hospital. He is recovering, and yet the president says this. Wait until you hear it, let's go to our White House correspondent John Harwood along with our political correspondent Abby Phillip.

John, walk us through what the president is saying and the really important context around it.

JOHN HARWOOD, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, there's no other way to say it. This tweet from the president is deranged. What it alleges is that 75-year-old Martin Gugino was an Antifa provocateur who was trying to interfere with police communications and was -- got a light shove from the officers, but fell harder than that on purpose to embarrass them.

Cracked his head on the sidewalk. He's still in the hospital in serious condition. The two officers have been fired and charged with assault.

Now, this is completely disconnected from reality, and it suggests the president doesn't know that or is deliberately spreading disinformation to try to dig himself out of the deep political hole that he's in.

But on the disinformation point, it's important to note this -- he is repeating, here, a claim that appeared on One America News Network, which is a nutty outlet. It was presented by a Russian, who has also worked for Sputnik, which is a Russian propaganda outlet.

So, again, the president, who in 2016 welcomed help from Russians in his campaign, Russians tried to sow discord among the American people for their own geostrategic advantage, the president appears to be doing that precisely again.

SCIUTTO: It's not the first time the president has amplified Russian misinformation. We should note, for instance, this idea that Ukraine interfered in 2016 and not Russia, actually originated as Russian disinformation, as people like Fiona Hill and others noted during the impeachment inquiry.

Abby Phillip, this pipeline of disinformation that often bubbles up from the dark corners of the web, far-right outlets, even Russian misinformation, directly to the president and then out to tens of millions of followers via his Twitter feed, is -- can be alarming at times. What is happening here, and is there anyone in that building who counsels the president against this.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, I mean, this president has always, even before he was president, been a peddler of conspiracy theories. He has always been attracted to them. He created a conspiracy theory and pushed it, the birther conspiracy theory.

And so now, as president, you're seeing him repeating them, using his Twitter platform to repeat them on social media. And he gets them from all kinds of sources: his friends, who call and talk to him; he gets them from simply retweeting accounts that show up in his -- who reply to his tweets and show up in his Twitter feed. And there is not -- there has not been a successful effort within the White House to keep this kind of information from the president.

But even beside all of that, I mean, I do think that we need to be clear here. The president knows what this tweet is about, where it originated. Probably -- it does matter, but it doesn't matter as much as what he's saying, which is that he does not see anything inexcusable about that kind of conduct. This is not a president who's going to be willing to call out bad police misconduct.

[10:35:00]

He also -- in the past, several years ago -- said as president that he thought police officers ought to be more rough with suspects when putting them in police cars --

HARLOW: Yes.

PHILLIP: -- so it's part of this pattern, it's not just that he is blindly retweeting and disseminating misinformation. It is also that the message that he is sending is that, you know, he doesn't think that there's really anything wrong with what everybody who saw it was horrified by in that video.

HARLOW: Abby, thank you for that.

John, we appreciate it.

And just to all our viewers, we just got a statement from Martin Gugino's attorney. Her name is Kelly Zarcone. Here's what -- let me just read you the full statement, OK?

Responding directly to the president, quote, "No one from law enforcement has ever even suggested anything otherwise, so we're at a loss to understand why the president of the United States would make such a dark, dangerous and untrue accusation against him. Martin has always been a peaceful protestor because he cares about today's society."

An update that he's out of the ICU, Jim, but still hospitalized.

SCIUTTO: Well, notable there, too, as the lawyer says, no one from law enforcement has even made this outrageous --

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- claim and yet the president does so.

We'll stay on top of that story. Up next this hour, remembering George Floyd: A Houston pastor who will be at today's funeral will speak to us about the man he knows and used to work with.

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HARLOW: His death while in police custody has driven people to the streets in protest, not just across America but around the world. But as George Floyd is laid to rest today, he is remembered as a father and a friend and a colleague.

Our next guest worked with him in Christian ministry and outreach at their church in Texas, and he is attending Floyd's private funeral service today. The pastor at Resurrection Church in Houston joins me now.

Pastor Ngwolo, thank you. Thank you for being here on such an important day for Floyd and his family.

PATRICK NGWOLO, PASTOR AND FRIEND OF GEORGE FLOYD: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: Of course. You talk about him as someone who epitomized redemption. Tell me more about that today as he is buried.

NGWOLO: You know, from the neighborhood where he grew up, I started doing ministry there about 10 years ago or thereabouts, and planted (ph) a church called Resurrection Houston. And in trying to reach that neighborhood, particularly the Cuney Homes

project, I needed allies, I needed somebody that the Bible would refer to as a person of faith (ph) who was hospitable enough to open up doors to allow up to do ministry with his friends, colleagues, with his village, if you will.

And so, man, he welcomed us with open arms, he was hospitable. He would say things like, Man, if this God business is my business -- and he was really a doorway, a pathway. I didn't grow up in that --

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NGWOLO: I didn't grow up in that neighborhood, he did. And so for him to open up his doors to myself and my colleagues, man, we're so thankful for what he's done.

HARLOW: I mean --

NGWOLO: Now, fast-forward a few years -- go ahead.

HARLOW: I'm so sorry, I was just going to say, I was so struck by the fact that you've said that without him, helping bring your ministry into those homes, it wouldn't have existed. That he opened that door for you.

NGWOLO: Yes, he did. And he helped us by -- by, man, bringing out -- we would have church outside and sometimes, man, we'd have to bring all of this equipment and he'd help us bring equipment and baptism tubs. We'd have three-on-three tournaments, he'd answer a (INAUDIBLE) to make sure that the neighborhood knew that this was something that you could do.

I mean, he was a stellar individual in my eyes and he opened up so many pathways. People got G.D.s and man, folk have gotten the help they need just because he opened the door and allowed us to be a part of his neighborhood.

HARLOW: You talk about Genesis 4, and about Cain and Abel. And I wonder what you think that can teach us about this moment.

NGWOLO: So I -- Genesis 4 talked about this story of Cain and Abel. Cain, because of his superiority, believed that he was better than Abel. Abel's offering was acceptable, Cain slew him. And in slaying him, Abel did not have a voice, was not able to speak. And so you think the story's over, but the Bible tells us that God literally says to Cain, I hear the blood of your brother crying out.

Lets us know that, man, God hears even beyond the grave. And I think it's a story that is applicable today because Brother Floyd, God heard his voice and that vengeance, that idea that this institutional racism that is a part of our country that needs to be repented of, God is pulling it to the forefront.

And, man, we're literally at an inflection point. His death was an inflection point. Either we're going to mask the sin of racism, or the sin of racism is going to mask us. [10:45:03]

HARLOW: Well, as the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, said yesterday, George Floyd is going to change the arc of the future of the United States. Pastor, we appreciate you so much today. We wish all of you peace as you lay him to rest.

NGWOLO: Grace and peace to you as well. Thank you.

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

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SCIUTTO: Stand by for this video, if you haven't seen it, but a New York City police officer was just charged with assault. This, after being caught on camera pushing a protestor really aggressively to the ground, just last week.

[10:50:06]

HARLOW: Brynn Gingras joins us with more.

What is the update?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim and Poppy, I mean, this video outraged millions after it was viewed many, many times after this incident more than a week and a half ago in Brooklyn.

You're seeing there, an officer push a demonstrator to the ground. Well, now, that officer has been charged by the Brooklyn District Attorney's Office with four different charges: assault, criminal mischief, harassment, menacing.

That officer, immediately after this incident was viewed by the NYPD, was put on administrative leave with no pay, and then his superior was transferred but now he is facing criminal charges, and he is expected to be in court later today.

HARLOW: Brynn, thank you for the update.

As George Floyd is about to be laid to rest, we're learning more about his death and the disturbing similarities it shares with so many other encounters that police have had with unarmed African-Americans. Our next guest says he sees himself in George Floyd.

Thabo Sefolosha is a 14-year NBA veteran. He's his story. What happened to him, if you don't remember? In 2015, he was wrongly arrested after a teammate and two women were stabbed at a New York City nightclub in an unrelated dispute.

SCIUTTO: He suffered a broken bone, other damage during the arrest. He then sued the department, donated the bulk of a $4 million settlement to Gideon's Promise, an Atlanta-based nonprofit that helps support and train public defenders across the country.

Mr. Sefolosha, good to have you on this morning. You've said you see some of yourself in George Floyd. I wonder, it's

been five years since your violent encounter with police. Have you seen any positive change since then? Do you see positive change in the national reaction to George Floyd's death?

THABO SEFOLOSHA, GUARD/FORWARD, HOUSTON ROCKETS: The most positive change I've seen, I think, is the reaction, to see people, you know, (INAUDIBLE), in the streets, you know, making their voice heard. I think that's a huge progress and something that you know, we saw, 10 years ago, five years ago also. But I think at the scales that it's taking right now, you know, it's really the main story.

HARLOW: You know, after you had to go through all of that -- and I'm so sorry you did -- you were granted this $4 million settlement, and you gave almost all of it to an organization that helps fund public defenders.

There's a lot of talk now, as you know, about where funding should go to heal and improve communities. And there are calls to defund the police. Where do you think funding should go that would help most?

SEFOLOSHA: Well, to me, I think it's a complicated issue, obviously. You know, it's something that had been lasting for years and years, and has been on the forefront, you know, now more than ever.

As far as funding, I think it's one of the main components, the defund of the police, I don't really stand (ph) by it, you know, I don't really understand it. I think a reset of the police would be a more appropriate word, you know, to use.

We need (ph) the police, you know? I think, you know, in my case, I was victim of -- of, you know, racial discrimination by the police. And they attacked me. But at the same time, I know that the police in this country, there's a lot of good police.

But you know, instances that we see in New York, in places like this, even I know. People that don't understand their role as the police, you know, should not be part of the force. They have a tremendous power that is given, you know, with the badge, that comes with people an officer with a gun, being allowed to carry a gun everywhere you go.

But that should come with, you know, responsibility and consequences when they fall (ph) out of line for sure.

SCIUTTO: The world has been watching with some alarm, events here in the U.S. You, you're originally from Switzerland. I wonder if you could describe the difference between how you're treated by police there and here, in your experience?

SEFOLOSHA: Very different. You know, I think it speaks also on the culture in the U.S., you know, its violent past, it's also a country where people are allowed to carry weapons. I think that brings a lot of anxiety to the police, for good reason, and to the rest of the people.

You know, when you see -- it's almost a (INAUDIBLE) idea, who will shoot first in a way. And when black people, you know, even unarmed, represent a threat, when they've often be (ph) the victim of this violence, you know. And that's what we're seeing right now.

HARLOW: The NBA will restart its season in the middle of the summer. And I know you believe that this is important, not only for the league, but to serve as a platform for real reform and sustainable justice.

SEFOLOSHA: Yes. You know, I think sports -- and we've seen players being vocal, being active and taking big measures (INAUDIBLE). I saw LeBron James, you know, opening a school, things like this, I think that's one of the key components of this moment in time.

[10:55:13]

It's not just about police reform and police brutality, I think. You know, in my opinion, it should be a little broader discussion because we see the effect, you know, on the funding of school systems, you know, in America, where higher-class neighborhoods will have better schools, 20 computers, 50 computers when the rest of the country, you know, lower-class neighborhood doesn't have that.

You know, I think it's a disparity that comes from just a statement (ph) of blatant racism, you know, if you want to call it what it is. That should be addressed, you know, things like this, the justice system, the police system and the schooling system, in my opinion, it should all be things that (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: Thabo Sefolosha, thank you for being here, for lending your voice to this. We appreciate you.

SEFOLOSHA: Thanks, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Our special coverage of George Floyd's funeral begins in just over an hour, starting at noon Eastern time. Please stay with us.

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