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FIRST MOVE WITH JULIA CHATTERLEY
The Brother Of George Floyd Testifying On Police Form; Corporate America's Continued Response To The Protests; The Central Bank's First Outlook Since The Coronavirus Crisis Began. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 10, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I am Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here's your need to know.
Calling for change. The brother of George Floyd testifying on police reform.
Taking action. Corporate America's continued response to the protests.
And the Fed's forecast. The Central Bank's first outlook since the coronavirus crisis began.
It's Wednesday. Let's make a move.
A warm welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Great to be back with you. It's been a truly momentous few weeks here in the United States and around the
world with hundreds of thousands of people taking to the streets demanding social change following the death of George Floyd.
We also have significant economic news, too, culminating in Friday's surprisingly strong, but ultimately inconclusive read on the U.S. jobs
market, though investors weren't deterred. Take a look at this.
The data sparking big stock market gains on Friday and Monday. Stocks pausing a little bit yesterday, but it's looking like a higher open today
once again ahead of the Federal Reserve's policy update.
Just to give you a mark, the NASDAQ crossing the 10,000 milestone for the first time ever yesterday. The S&P 500 also back in the green for the year.
The overall trend has been higher amid the expectation, I think that if the situation is bad, then the Federal Reserve and Jay Powell will step in to
help once again, and then, if reopenings are successful and without a dramatic rise in COVID cases, then it's good news anyways.
So, there's a backstop there on both sides. It is an interesting one. In Asia, new numbers show Chinese wholesale prices falling more than 3.5
percent last month, fueling concerns about a slower recovery there. The path is by no means straight.
The OECD warning today that it will make global economies at least two years to fully recover.
But here in the United States, the speed and the strength of recovery remains a big unknown, too. Yes, 2.5 million jobs were added to U.S.
payrolls in May, but that still leaves more than 20 million Americans officially unemployed.
And as protests against racial inequality continue to cry out for change, unemployment among African-Americans sits at over 16.5 percent. That's
triple what it was four months ago when it hit record lows.
Let's get right to the drivers. Plenty to discuss.
In the next hour, testimony on Capitol Hill from the brother of George Floyd, just a day after Floyd's family and friends gathered in Houston for
his funeral. The demands for justice and greater equality were echoed across the country with protesters taking to the streets for another day.
All of this, as lawmakers now consider proposals for overhauling policing and tackling racism. Manu Raju joins us now from Washington.
Manu, great to have you with us. George Floyd's brother not the only testimony that we will hear today, but certainly likely to be the most
emotive. What can we expect?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we expect this to be a pretty emotional hearing before the House Judiciary Committee when
George Floyd's brother, Philonise Floyd takes to the mics and explains what happened and takes questions from lawmakers, but he is not the only one who
will be testifying.
Other witnesses will offer their perspective of what needs to be changed, civil rights activists, people from the law enforcement community, people
who the Republicans have invited as well. Essentially, what this will do is, this will lay the groundwork for the legislative debate to come.
We expect that to happen pretty quickly in the House of Representatives.
We expect a vote in the House Judiciary Committee on the Democrats' Bill to try to overhaul policing in the United States, have a vote in that
committee as soon as next week, and the full U.S. House is expected to vote to approve that plan by the end of the month.
Now, they will have to reconcile their differences with Republicans in the Senate who are taking a different approach. Republicans had initially had
said they want to leave a lot of these issues to the local government, but facing pressure and facing the unrest here in the United States, there is
now a push to try to do something on the national level.
The Republicans are putting together their proposal that includes a number of measures, but they differ from Democrats. For instance, the Democrats
want to ban certain police tactics like chokeholds. That is not in the Republican plan.
The Democratic plan is more aggressive about the mandate of the use of body cameras on law enforcement officers. The Republicans encourage that use.
The Democrats try to have a National Registry to track police misconduct across the country. The Republicans are trying to push that on the state
RAJU: So, there are a number of major differences that they'd still have to sort out. But Congress is moving and in just over two weeks' time since the
death of George Floyd, we are seeing an effort to try to reconcile what happened there to what people believe needs to be changed on the ground in
these police departments.
So, perhaps they can get a deal. There's still work to come and today's hearing will kick off that process -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: It's incredible, though, that just in the space of two weeks we're even having this discussion, even given the differences of the
Democrats and the Republicans on what reform might ultimately look like.
The shift in Congress, the shift in public opinion. The consensus now is for reform of some kind. I think we have to underline how pivotal this
RAJU: Yes. No question about it. This was not on the agenda of Congress just a few weeks ago when Congress was consumed with how to deal with the
coronavirus crisis and whether or not to move on another recovery package.
Now, it is on the forefront of Congress's agenda and Democrats moved to put together their major proposal that has the support of more than 200 of
And as I mentioned, the Republicans said, this was not -- as of last week, they did not think that they needed to do a Bill on the national level, but
now they believe they do, because as you mentioned, the polls overwhelmingly show voters do want some change and they're concerned about
what's happening here and of course, we're in an election year where members of Congress are more receptive to the concerns being raised by the
So, perhaps they can come to a resolution. Still some ways to go to get there, but clearly the discussion has changed in Washington since George
CHATTERLEY: Absolutely, and that testimony beginning in the next hour. Manu, great to have you with us. Manu Raju there.
Talking of massive shifts, corporate America responding to the call from the Black Lives Matter movement with actions as well as words.
Adidas has committed to hiring black or Latinx workers in at least 30 percent of its new U.S. roles.
Meanwhile, HBO Max has withdrawn "Gone with the Wind" from its library and Paramount Network has cancelled the long-running reality show "Cops." Brian
Stelter joins us now.
Brian, action speaks louder than words. I have to say there's still deep skepticism about corporate America's commitment to addressing racial
inequality at this moment. But steps like this from Adidas shows something again. Pretty pivotal that we're seeing.
Brian, can you hear me? No, I don't think he can hear me. Okay, we'll move on and we'll see if we can get Brian back up in a few minutes' time.
For now, and I've mentioned it already, later today, the Federal Reserve is expected to release its first set of economic forecasts for 2020 after
skipping the quarterly summery that it normally gives in March.
Fed Chair Jay Powell will speak after he and his policymakers wrap up their two-day meeting. Christine Romans joins me now.
Christine, it is an interesting time of course because Jay Powell has come out several times in the last few weeks, and you and I have discussed it
plenty of times, reiterating the need for more support.
But there was some suggestion after the Jobs Report that we got on Friday that perhaps if we do add back these jobs very quickly, then perhaps, at
least as far as the Federal Reserve is concerned, their work is done. What do we call it today?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think why that Jobs Report is so interesting because when you look at the
state and local government jobs, there were big job losses there and that's been one of the points that Jay Powell has been making, I think, when he is
talking to Congress and sort of saying, hey there's more work that you might have to do. That could very well be the state and local aid piece of
You've had these state budgets just cratering here, so that's going to be sort of the second wave of crisis here once the pandemic -- initial
pandemic and reopening is addressed.
So, we'll be looking to see if he says anything about that. And really, you know, we're on pins and needles for whether he is committed to using all of
the policy tools in their arsenal or strongly committed. It could be just one or two different words that could change the direction of investors
So, really watching closely, especially on a day, you mentioned the OECD said it could take two years for the global economy to recover from this
and this is the worst global recession in peace time in a hundred years.
So, you have a split screen of all of these hopes for a V-shape recovery and maybe an end to stimulus and then the reality that we still have a lot
of work to do.
CHATTERLEY: And of course, as you point out so correctly, we analyze every single word and the phrasing of all the sentences. And any hint that he can
be a little bit more optimistic here in light of what we're seeing in terms of reopening will be seen as a negative, I think, by investors that
suddenly, maybe the support is going to be lessened in some way or he's not quite as there as he was before.
Investors at this moment feel like they've got all bases covered. If it's bad, Jay Powell will provide further support. If it is good, it is great
anyway, and here we are with the NASDAQ making record highs. It's astonishing.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, it is. And you look at where the markets have come just since the March lows and I mean, aren't they priced for perfection and
priced for the trillions of dollars of stimulus they've seen both from Congress and the Fed.
So, there are those who get a little nervous here that any kind of hint of bad news and maybe stalling in Congress, especially over the state and
local budget stuff or bailout stuff could make this market a little bit choppy. But anybody who has been worried about a choppy market over the
past three or four weeks has lost money.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and this is a critical point as well. Judging what happens next, are valuations too high? Can they support their valuations given the
sheer quantity of liquidity that is sloshing around?
I've seen some charts that are so astonishing in terms of the number of cash out there. It sort of justifies inexplicable valuations for equities
because there's no real judgment allowed anymore or provided.
ROMANS: I wonder what you think, Julia, what percentage of this rally in the stock market is the Fed's bond buying and the Fed alone and Fed
liquidity alone? It might be an unknowable number here.
But certainly support from the Fed is one reason why the stock market has been able to rally so well, which makes Chairman Powell's comments today
that much more riveting for all of us who follow Fed speak.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, riveting. We are geeks. Christine Romans, thank you so much for that.
All right, I do believe Brian is now back with us. Brian, can you hear me?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I hear you. I'm sorry about that, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: No. No, it's not sorry. It's good. It's live TV. That's what happens. We were discussing and I introduced the fact that Adidas has come
out and said, look, at least 30 percent of our new hiring in North America is going to be targeted towards African-Americans, to Latinx workers.
That's a pretty bold statement, even if we don't know what their current ethnic mix of workers is. And one would suggest it's lower than they would
STELTER: Yes, all of this is people power in action, from "The New York Times" sacking its op-ed editor to "The Philadelphia Inquirer" having its
top editor resign, to "Harper's Bazaar" naming a person of color as its magazine editor for the first time. To the superhero show on the CW firing
one of its actors.
There are all of these changes in the media world that are related, and then in the broader business world, they're all part of the same thing.
It's this incredible influence of people power, kind of the influence of advocacy groups, of rank-and-file employees, of customers.
All of these companies want to make sure that they are standing on the right side of history and it seems like, you know, customers aren't willing
to wait around any longer and employees aren't willing to wait around for change any longer.
CHATTERLEY: It's interesting. I was looking at a survey by Edelman, the public relations company. They do this trust survey and their latest say 60
percent of Americans would now boycott or buy from a brand based on its response to George Floyd's killing.
Fascinating to see the dramatic shift, I think, in public opinion and having a response, whether it's in Congress, whether it is a response from
But at the same time, and I mentioned it already, there's deep skepticism, I think about how far this extends to corporate boards, whether it means
high wages for some of the lowest earners. What do you think, Brian? Is this moment that pivotal that we see that kind of change? Or is more
STELTER: And will it still be a part of the conversation the same way months from now?
STELTER: When decisions like about Boards are made. I think this is the kind of thing where it's like water coming up against a wall. Like water
has been coming up against the wall for years and years and finally, the wall bursts, finally the dam bursts, and that's partly because of the news
cycle, partly because of the horror of the George Floyd video, and partly because activists have been working up to this point for many years.
Look at, for example, Paramount Network, a small cable channel said yesterday they're not going to air the show "Cops" anymore. "Cops" is a
legendary reality show, but it was long in the tooth. It played into outdated stereotypes about policing, and advocacy groups have been calling
for five years to get rid of the show "Cops." But it took this moment for the network to actually do it.
So that's what I mean by the water, finally, for so long up against this dam and now it's bursting.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and coronavirus, of course, revealing the financial inequalities in the United States and the vulnerabilities, all contributing
factors I think here.
STELTER: All contributing, yes.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Brian, great to have you with us. Thank you for your perspective. As always.
All right now, the latest global snapshot of the coronavirus pandemic. According to Johns Hopkins, there have now been 7.2 million confirmed
cases, more than 400,000 people have lost their lives.
CHATTERLEY: In the United States, with more easing of restrictions and businesses reopening, as well as people gathering to protest, we are seeing
higher infection rates in almost half of U.S. states.
Senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen is with us. Elizabeth, great to get you on the show. What is your perspective on what we're seeing?
Because when I look at the caseloads, it comes back to the idea of look, but we're testing more and we're increasing to tests-- increasingly
But at the same time, if you look at people getting back together, videos on social media of group gatherings and people not wearing masks, a lot of
people think the caseload should be higher. What is the real story here?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The real story here is that there are so many factors involved. As you mentioned, the more you
test, the more cases you find and that certainly can be at play and certainly some parts of the U.S. are testing more than other parts.
But also, it's very simple. The country has opened up in the past, you know, month or so and the more you get people together, the more you're
going to get the spread of the coronavirus.
Now, people have pointed to the protests and certainly that may be one part of it. But we're seeing people getting together in other ways as well, over
Memorial Day weekend, which was a few weeks ago, we certainly saw gatherings at beaches and other kinds of parties. There were graduation
parties which led to outbreaks of coronavirus.
So in the beginning, when we were careful, the numbers responded as you would expect. When you're less careful and people are getting together
more, especially if you don't take precautions such as masks or any kind of social distancing, you're going to see the numbers come up. It really is
CHATTERLEY: One quick question, Elizabeth, too, on the silent spreaders, the asymptomatic individuals who have COVID-19.
The World Health Organization causing some deep confusion about how dangerous these people are and whether or not we need to be wearing masks,
ultimately. What is the real deal here? Because Dr. Fauci this morning refuting.
COHEN: Yes, several Infectious Disease experts that I've talked to said they were scratching their heads when the W.H.O. made their announcement on
Monday, and then their clarification on Tuesday, which sort of kind of helped, but not really.
The bottom line is that, it is clear, there's lots of evidence at this point that this virus can be spread by people who don't have symptoms. The
W.H.O. got very caught up in whether they truly didn't have symptoms, maybe they had a little bit of symptoms and they didn't notice it or maybe they
weren't asymptomatic cases, per se, because they were pre-symptomatic, they didn't have symptoms but then a few days later they did develop symptoms.
In a way, who cares? It doesn't matter for the person who catches, who is on the receiving end of the infection. If you run into an old friend on the
street, you give them a hug, they seem perfectly fine and then you get sick, it's because they were infected at that time and didn't realize it.
It doesn't matter if they were mildly symptomatic, it doesn't matter if they were asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic, the bottom line is, they felt
well enough to be out and about. They didn't realize they had coronavirus and they got you sick.
This is real. This is happening in a significant number of cases. This has been estimated by the C.D.C. and others as being real and significant. We
need to pay attention. That's why the W.H.O. says wear masks.
The only reason you're going to wear a mask is because you might be contagious without realizing it. So, the W.H.O. really managed to muck
things up here.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was going to say, the bottom line is, just wear a mask. It's about protecting others.
CHATTERLEY: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you for that. Great to have you with us.
CHATTERLEY: All right, still to come on FIRST MOVE, leveling the playing field for black and minority American workers. President Obama's former
Social Secretary, who is now CEO of the Black Opal Beauty brand, joins us to discuss how.
And the changing face of COVID-19, an ER doctor talks to FIRST MOVE about the latest coronavirus science. That's coming up. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where we're still looking for a higher open for U.S. stock markets. Tech is set to outperform after the
NASDAQ crossed the 10,000 milestone for the very first time in yesterday's trading session.
Professional investors warning here that stocks are at their most expensive level in years. That said, retail investors continue to pour money into
beaten-down sectors, capitalizing on hopes for a strong economic rebound, lifting some of the cheaper stocks.
Confidence in the Federal Reserve, as I've already mentioned, has helped fuel the market rise, too. The Central Bank releasing new economic
forecasts later today.
The Fed's policy statement coming just two days after officials said the U.S. entered recession back in February, ending 128 months of uninterrupted
Let's talk this through. Joining us now, Greg Valliere, he is Chief U.S. Policy Strategist at AGF Investments. Greg, great to have you with us.
Plenty of head scratching, I think, given the level of stock markets at this moment, if you look at the risks that remain out there and the
GREG VALLIERE, CHIEF U.S. POLICY STRATEGIST, AGF INVESTMENTS: You've got to think, Julia that Fed Chairman Powell knows that the risks -- the downside
risks with more and more cases of COVID-19, you were just reporting about that, with perhaps a fluky unemployment number last Friday.
I mean, I think the risks are still downside risks and I think the main task today for Jerome Powell is to persuade or beg Congress to do more.
Congress hasn't done enough. There's got to be another Bill.
Some people are getting cold feet, but I think Powell will be quite adamant that we need more medicine.
CHATTERLEY: So, he sticks to the line that he has given over the last several weeks that, to your point, more support is needed, the Fed stands
ready and Congress has to do more.
What is the Washington consensus at this point on COVID-19?
VALLIERE: I think the feeling is that we've got cavalier, that we maybe got a little too self-congratulatory, mission accomplished, and there are so
many areas in the country where people did not do the distancing, wear the masks, and now we've got a real problem on our hands.
And I think this could be a disincentive for Americans to go to restaurants, to go to malls, to get out, because this clearly is not over
CHATTERLEY: You said it's a fluky potentially Jobs Report. You are less convinced perhaps than others. There was some disagreement over what the
unemployment rate is ultimately and how you quantify who is unemployed in the United States, but 2.5 million jobs added back sooner than thought, we
can't escape that.
VALLIERE: Absolutely. That was quite encouraging. I'm not quite sure we're at 13.6 percent. I think the Bureau of Labor Statistics feels it probably
But we're going in the right direction. Things are getting better. But I do worry just to make an analogy, if you have an infection and only take half
of your antibiotics and don't take the rest, the infection could come back. I think you have to take the medicine until it runs out and there's a need
for more medicine.
CHATTERLEY: No room for complacency, I agree with you on that. It's been a remarkable 14 days, I think, of protests and debate over racial inequality.
We were talking earlier in the show about the dramatic shift in discussion in Congress, but also in public opinion, the reform -- police reform now is
the consensus opinion.
What does action look like, Greg, on this?
VALIERE: Well, first of all, Julia, you've got all of these young people, black and white, wanting reform. The country's attitudes have changed
dramatically. We are going to get a Bill. I think the Democrats and Republicans can come together.
I think to a certain extent, Trump might be irrelevant in all of this. He is not going to show a deep understanding. He doesn't show any empathy and
I think, Republicans know there's got to be a Bill.
I do not see defunding the police. I think Biden and other leaders of the Democratic Party feel that's not a wise thing to do. But I do see dramatic
changes and the most dramatic change of all will be an African-American running mate for Joe Biden. I think it's probably 90 percent that she will
CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, there's so many points in there, Greg, and I think already Joe Biden making that distinction between reform and defunding. No
moderate wants to see less police presence. It's just about making it work better for everybody in society.
To your point then, we see Joe Biden choose a black, probably female Vice President. Trump is irrelevant to this debate because he sort of missed the
boat on it and man-handles it when he does speak about it.
How do you see the interplay between Joe Biden and Donald Trump as we go through the next few months? Because you did make a quite pointed comment
that we've seen the high watermark for the strength of support for Joe Biden relative to Donald Trump this week.
VALLIERE: Well, the CNN poll showed Biden ahead by 14. That's a lot. I think most polls show Biden ahead by eight, nine, ten, something like that.
I am not sure Biden can get much higher than 14 percent. However, if he is wise with his choice -- let's say he picks the Mayor of Atlanta, Keisha
Bottoms, who I think would be a first-rate candidate.
Well, Georgia has 16 Electoral College votes and I think she could help with turnout. I think she would help around the country. Obviously, Kamala
Harris and Val Demings would help as well.
So, I think Biden could get an extra point or two out of a running mate, but I'd have to -- I would be a little bit worried for the Democrats if
they think Biden is going to win by 14. I think that's a bit high.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. He doesn't need to win by that.
VALLIERE: No, it's not.
CHATTERLEY: Greg Valliere, great seeing you. Great to have you with us. Fantastic to have you on, as always. Stay well, sir.
VALLIERE: Nice to see you. Yes. Bye.
CHATTERLEY: Nice to see you, too. All right, and we're counting down for the market open this morning. Stay with us. That's next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. The U.S. stocks are open for trading this Wednesday, and as expected, we've got a mostly higher open
across the board here. One of the major market stories of the year has been strength in Big Tech. Well, that continues.
The NASDAQ trading above the 10,000 milestone for a second day, as Apple and Amazon hit fresh record highs. Evidence meanwhile, of pent-up demand
from global consumers also helping fuel the market sentiment here.
Macy's says its reopened stores are performing better than expected. Air travel is also coming back, too. American Airlines says it will fly 55
percent of its domestic schedule and almost 20 percent of its international routes next month.
That said, a new CNN poll shows less than half of Americans say they would feel comfortable returning to their old routines at this moment in time.
In around half an hour, the brother of George Floyd will testify before Congress. Lawmakers are hearing proposals on changing the way policing is
run in the United States.
It comes just one day after Floyd's friends and family gathered in Houston to pay their final respects and demand a fairer America. We will be
covering that and we'll bring that to you the moment the hearing starts.
But it's not just the judicial system that needs to change to bring real equality, the wealth gap between black and white America is staggering. The
poverty rate among black Americans is double that of whites and on average white house holds have ten times the net worth of black households. That's
the result of inequalities in education, opportunity and investment.
Joining us now is Desiree Rogers, the CEO of Black Opal Beauty and former Social Secretary at the White House under President Obama. Desiree, great
to have you on the show. Some staggering statistics there, I think highlighting not only the need, and we're hearing people talking about this
on a daily basis of judicial reform, but also things like education reform, investment reform, support for small business, too.
What's your stance today? And are we seeing a movement for real change?
DESIREE ROGERS, CEO, BLACK OPAL BEAUTY: You know, I certainly hope so. I mean, in front of the whole world, we saw George Floyd murdered. But the
dreams and the aspirations of black people here in America have been murdered for centuries, and so I am hopeful that this will be the turning
point where we start to make some real progress.
I mean, we know that due to the virus that people had to stand still for a while. It was the great equalizer in many ways, but in many ways it was not
an equalizer because here in America, as you may know, the rate of death among African-Americans and minorities was much higher because we couldn't
stand still, because we really were the ones that people on the frontline caring for people every day, whether it be bus drivers, service workers,
restaurant workers, hospital workers, orderlies -- I mean, we had to get out there and work.
And you mentioned earlier the great divide in terms of wealth and, you know, that's just a fact. And so why is that? It has to be the underlying
kind of sin of America, which is racism.
CHATTERLEY: What policy responses do you want to see to tackle that? Because to your point, I think COVID-19 revealed something that was an
existing problem and it's been an existing problem for a really long time about the underlying inequalities in the United States.
What policy response is required now to tackle some of these issues?
ROGERS: Well, there's several different areas that we have to confront. I mean, I believe as a small business owner, you know, one of the things, we
had what was called PPP here and that was loan programs for small businesses. But we know that 95 percent of black-owned companies weren't
able to get access to that money, or if they were, they knew that it wouldn't work for them because part of the forgiveness of the money is
How can you hire people if you can't pay your rent or buy food for your restaurant or all of the other things that are required for small business?
We also know that 40 percent of black-owned businesses and about 35 percent of businesses in the Latino market have been shut down by COVID.
And so, you know, how do those businesses come back? Where is the government investment? Where is the federal investment? Local investment?
And so, we have got to invest in these small businesses across this nation and we know that money coming from those businesses regenerates back into
that community. You get more activity from other businesses locating there.
A big issue here is bank loans. Just getting access to capital to grow your business. So, we've got to make certain that there's some accountability in
terms of what these banks are doing and how they're lending their money.
I mean, just like there are all kinds of rewards in compensation, et cetera, for making your net income numbers or your profits, we need that
for diversity and inclusion. We need that as a measure for CEOs that are running these large companies. That's what we need.
Talk is cheap, you know, and giving donations -- we love that. That's great. But we've got to invest in this community: education, healthcare,
wellness, the ability to access capital and the ability to really be able to grow our businesses.
CHATTERLEY: Adidas came out and said that fresh hiring in the United States, 30 percent now at least, will be African-American, will be from the
Latinx worker pool. Is that the kind of response that you want to see?
ROGERS: We love that. Let's see it. I mean, we need employment across the board. Not just in the lower-level jobs, but some of the higher-ranking
If you look across America in our corporations, it is not reflective of the population across this nation. And so if you look at the major CEOs of the
Fortune 500, they're -- you know, we don't exist, very few of us exist.
We look across the boards of these large corporations in America, we're not in the boardroom. This is where the decisions are made. If you look at the
executive leadership committee, we're not there.
And so, there's just a sprinkling of us and there should just be many more of us in those positions to really be able to drive change and this is
across the board. We certainly have to vote. We have to vote people in that know and admit that racism is a problem in this country and will go through
and do the work and take the steps to make the correction, because what I see is continuous cycling.
I'm hoping that that doesn't happen this time because as we look across all the protests, it's not just black people that are protesting. We have a
whole rainbow collection of generational diversity, ethnic diversity. So I am hopeful that this time, America steps up and we get to that next level,
but we'll see.
CHATTERLEY: I have to say, even with the surveys that are being done today, there is deep skepticism that it will hit board level, that it will mean
higher wages for the lowest earning workers in society, even today. So, the push has to continue.
Desiree, talk to me about education. Because every time I have this conversation, it goes back to the beginnings of education and some of the
African-American communities allowing bad teachers to be fired, hiring stronger teachers. Just shoring up the education systems that give
individuals a better and equal playing field, a fighting chance in terms of their beginnings.
Do you agree with that? And do you think that those kind of changes and flexibility is required in order to level the playing field very early on,
before we even start talking about corporate response and business response? It has to begin earlier.
ROGERS: Certainly, it has to begin earlier. And I'm lucky, I'm from New Orleans. I'm the daughter of a teacher and my mother was also in education,
so it came early on here.
But many young people don't have that situation. There's so many social ills here in America that you may only have a one-parent household. You may
have a no-parent household.
ROGERS: So, there's a combination of work that needs to get done in these communities to ensure not only that the students have great teachers and
that they're not necessarily entering into a prison.
I'm startled as I enter into some of the public schools where I've got to go through gun detectors, and almost like a shakedown. It's like how can I
learn if I've got all of this atmosphere around us? So, there has to be a really focused project, attention across all of these communities and
making certain that the infrastructure is there, the access to great teachers is there, that people are in an environment where they can learn,
they can get a hot meal.
One of the considerations with -- and worries were as schools closed down, kids would not be able to get hot meals during the day. The other big
divide right now is just access to computers.
It's great if you're sitting home and you have access to a computer and a parent there to help you work through that, but what if you have no
broadband in your community, much less ownership of a computer that you can do online learning?
We know that 20 percent of African-Americans in this country did not have jobs -- only 20 percent of African-Americans had jobs where they could work
from home. What does that tell you? They don't have the capacity to be able to work from home. They have service jobs, and so that means they have to
And so, I really worry about what COVID has done in terms of taking us backwards instead of taking us forward.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. No, we saw that with the latest job and unemployment statistics, too. Desiree, I want to talk to you about your business because
I know you take specific and make specific choices about your hiring, which is important, too. But we will get you back to talk about your business,
too, because there's so much to discuss here. Great to have you with us, and we'll speak to you --
ROGERS: Yes, there is.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you.
ROGERS: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: The CEO of Black Opal Beauty, great to see you. And we'll see you again soon.
All right, we're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE. But still to come, what is the likelihood of a second wave? We'll speak to a doctor who
says mass protests and lockdown easing might not cause a new spike after all. Find out why next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. There have been concerns that recent events could spark a second coronavirus wave in the United States,
Europe and elsewhere.
As economies reopen and restrictions ease, more and more people are mixing in shops, restaurants and outdoor spaces, not to mention anti-racism
protests around the world that have seen thousands of people marching in close proximity.
This is all happening while the virus is still killing thousands of people, especially in Latin America, and we've seen an uptick in new infections
here in the United States, although the scale so far, not as dramatic as many have feared.
So, what's going on? I want to explore this with Dr. Rajeev Kalsi, he is an emergency medicine physician who joins us via Skype from Chicago. Raj,
fantastic to have you on the show, and thank you for making time. I know you're incredibly busy. What is going on? Because there is a lot of
confusion, I think, out there about why we haven't seen a greater rise in cases. There's also been speculation that perhaps we're seeing a less
virulent form of the virus now circulating. What's your take?
DR. RAJEEV KALSI, EMERGENCY MEDICINE (via Skype): Thanks, Julia. Thanks for having me on, and thanks for helping me discuss this. You bring up
So, America and scientists want to know why aren't we seeing that huge uptick? You remember back, Julia, they were forecasting mathematical models
that put us at over a million deaths early on and then we relegated it back to about 100,000 deaths, which is kind of where we're at right now,
certainly over a hundred thousand, I think. Every death is important.
However, we have to take into account a couple of variables and these are unknown unknowns, to coin the Rumsfeld term. One of the unknowns is, is
this virus becoming less aggressive?
When we look at epidemiology and different viruses that are very aggressive, for instance like SARS-1 and MERS, they killed the host off
very quickly, so quickly that the human being that had the infection simply couldn't get to the next human being to make that contact to make that next
communication and cause viral spread.
Could that be happening here? Could Italy and Wuhan, China, and then Spain, by way of -- or New York by way of Spain, could they have seen the more
aggressive strain causing a dramatic amount of cases and deaths, and by the time the rest of the country got it, and even now, we're just not seeing as
many hospitalizations, we're not seeing as many deaths, or is it that we're just getting better at treating these people?
And two other things are going on. One is that, we're still under-reporting the cases that do exist, just because of sheer volume, and we were just not
built for this infrastructure to report all of this data. And two, we're testing a whole lot more. We have so many more tests.
So when we see spike in cases, we just really don't know if it's because we had a spike in supplies to go test all of the people out there and the real
data comes in the form of how many are hospitalized and how long are they hospitalized for, and of those hospitalized, how many died?
CHATTERLEY: It's fascinating to hear you say -- I mean, three months has been light years in terms of you guys on the frontline knowing how best to
handle the cases that you're dealing with.
But what you're saying about what we've seen in the past with other coronaviruses and the fact that we do tend to see the dominant strain
version becoming -- is a weaker one and that's certainly what Italian doctors are saying and coming under fierce criticism, I think, through
fears of complacency or that we get complacent, could the weather be playing a role here, too?
KALSI: That's an interesting idea and it certainly plays a role in the four coronaviruses that America never talked about and never knew about,
perhaps, until this novel coronavirus came about.
There were four coronaviruses that we always associated as doctors with the common cold. Our patients will come in with sinus pressure, runny nose,
sore throat, maybe a fever for a day. Anybody with any type of medical problems would come in with those symptoms and say, doc, I think I'm sick,
I think I have a sinus infection. I have a cold.
And we knew in the back of our mind statistically based on the season, late fall, early winter, this is probably the cold virus. And those are four
coronaviruses in addition to just a handful of other known viruses, and most of them are just not lethal.
KALSI: In fact, they are much less lethal and much less likely to kill you than even influenza such as H1N1 or the seasonal flu.
And so, we know that those come back in cycles and we know that certain spike proteins, certain proteins on this novel coronavirus are very similar
to the family of the other four milder coronaviruses, and the question then becomes, if it's similar to a family of viruses, would it behave in the
cyclic fashion that the other viruses do, compared to MERS and SARS which were essentially eradicated once they disappeared off the planet.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. It just reminds us that there's so much we don't know about what we're dealing with at this stage, and even for you guys that are
out on the frontlines, you're just trying to deal with what you get presented in that moment and will look back on it and be able to make
conclusions and decisions about what we're seeing.
Dr. Kalsi, we will get you back because I have plenty more to discuss with you, but I have to wrap it up here. Great to have you with us. Dr. Rajeev
Kalsi there. Thank you so much.
KALSI: Thank you. Sure.
CHATTERLEY: All right, coming up on FIRST MOVE, we're going to take a special look at inequality in the United States and what major companies
are doing to tackle racial injustice. Stay with us. That's next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. As a reminder that you need to join us for a special edition of "Quest Means Business" tonight for a look at
inequality in America. Zain Asher will be speaking to the head of one of America's oldest Civil Rights groups, the NAACP, as well as executives from
UPS and WarnerMedia, our parent company, about the best ways to tackle racial injustice.
And Zain joins us now to tell us more. Zain, can't wait to watch this. Tell us what's coming up.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we're going to be speaking about the experience of being black in corporate America. And Julia, when you look at
the numbers, they are startling.
There are only four black CEOs in the Fortune 500 companies, three percent of all senior executives in this country in corporate America are black. In
fact, Dick Parsons, the former CEO of Time Warner actually came out in an interview and discussed his experience of being black in corporate America,
saying that as he was rising through the ranks, he always felt as though he had to be twice as good to get half as far, and that is certainly something
that a lot of black people in this country can relate to.
I think that it is important, though, that if corporate America is in part responsible for fueling inequality in this country, the question then
becomes what, are they going to do about it?
It's important to understand how we got here as a society, Julia, because back in the 1960s, white people were on average seven times richer than
black people and that gap, Julia, is actually only getting wider.
Of course there are systemic issues, including generational poverty after the slave trade, also segregation as well. But you also have to look at the
minimum wage. The minimum wage in this country federally has been stuck at $7.25 an hour for the past ten years, and of course black people are
disproportionately employed in low-wage jobs.
And also access to education. Public school education, the quality of a public school in poor black neighborhoods is nowhere near -- who are we
kidding -- nowhere near what it is in a rich, white neighborhood.
So these are all things that I'm going to be discussing now that the world's spotlight is on racial injustice in this country. The question then
becomes how do we level the playing field? What are we going to do with the fact that the spotlight is on this issue right now? How can we use it to
our advantage -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. Keep that spotlight on it as well. Zain Asher, can't wait. Sounds fantastic. Such an important conversation. We look
forward to that. Thank you for joining us.
And coming up shortly, the brother of George Floyd will be testifying before lawmakers on Capitol Hill, just one day after Floyd's funeral.
Congress holding a hearing on police brutality and how to reform the justice system. That's up next.
And that's it for the show. I'm Julia Chatterley. You've been watching FIRST MOVE. Stay safe.