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New Video Of Arrest And Shooting Of Rayshard Brooks; Deadly Police Shooting Sparks Protests In Atlanta; Trump To Resume Campaign Rallies Despite Coronavirus Risk; Trump Reschedules Tulsa Rally After Widespread Criticism; Is There A Bipartisan Path On Policing Reform Bills? Aired 8-9a ET

Aired June 14, 2020 - 08:00   ET



DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm Dana Bash, in for John King.

After 19 days of protests, demanding racial justice, ignited by the death of George Floyd, a new name is being chanted this weekend, 27- year-old Rayshard Brooks. Hundreds of protesters in Atlanta took to the streets and set fire to a Wendy's where a white policeman shot and killed Brooks who was African-American.

Friday night after an -- it happened Friday night after an altercation in the parking lot there. The Georgia Bureau of Investigations says police were called in about a man sleeping in a car, in the Wendy's drive through.

Police say Rayshard Brooks failed a field sobriety test and then resisted arrest. What followed is captured on this disturbing video, narrated by CNN's Dianne Gallagher.


DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In video taken by a bystander, you can see a struggle.

According to the GBI, the yellow object in the officer's hand is a Taser. Eventually, Brooks appears to swing at an officer before taking off with the Taser. Wendy's surveillance video released by the GBI picks up where that video ends.

What you see is Brooks running from the police. At one point he appears to turn back toward the officer and discharge the Taser before turning back around to continue to run. You then see him fall to the ground.

Here's the moment Brooks appears to discharge the Taser and the officer fires. Here it is once more in slow motion.

Brooks was shot, taken to the hospital where he died the GBI said.

Attorneys representing Brooks' family spoke out last night. L. CHRIS STEWART, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF RAYSHARD BROOKS: Why not talk

to him as a human being and say, hey, buddy, maybe you had too much to drink, leave your car here and take Uber? I've seen that happen. But that didn't happen. Instead they got physical, he ran, he did have the Taser.

But according to law, a Taser is not a lethal weapon. So he didn't have a lethal weapon in his hand. He was running with the Taser and then they shot him. It just -- it didn't need to happen.


GALLAGHER: Now, Officer Garrett Rolfe who police say shot and killed -- that he has been fired. He was with the force for about seven years here, Officer Devin Bronson placed on administrative duty.

And, Dana, the police chief, Erika Shields, she announced her resignation on Saturday, in light of this shooting. And several other incidents that have since happened once the protests began here in Atlanta about two weeks ago.

She closed out -- I want to read you the final sentence that she had in announcing that she was going to be leaving her post. She said it is time for the city to move forward and build trust between law enforcement and the communities they serve.

Dana, look, I've been out here with these protesters in Atlanta and I can tell you that is a very large gap they're going to have to bridge. That simply firing a police officer at this point doesn't seem like it is going to be enough for the protesters that we have spoken to, the people who are out last night and who have been out on the streets every day for the past two weeks. They plan to be back out in the streets again today.

BASH: I would imagine so.

Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much for that report.

And joining me now from neighboring state, South Carolina, is the mayor of Columbia, South Carolina, Stephen Benjamin.

Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor, for joining me.

Let's start right there, the killing of Rayshard Brooks. After weeks of protests, Americans demanding racial justice, what we saw is the same thing we have seen time and time again, another black man shot by police. What is your reaction to what is going on in Atlanta?

MAYOR STEPHEN BENJAMIN (D), COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, it's -- it's painful to watch. I watched the video -- the Wendy's surveillance video was not available when we turned off the TV last night. Watched it with my wife and my two teenage daughters.

And it's painful. I mean, the reality is that America is dealing with a reckoning right now that's a culmination of centuries of systemic racism, and it's going to be up to us to decide how in fact we're going to turn this moment into -- into a movement, how we're going to really try and change not only a system of policing, but also just our -- our culture.

It's a -- it's a large discussion. It's painful not just for the people in Atlanta, but right now, we're all interconnected and interdependent and something that happens across the country, across the globe affects us right in our own very neighborhoods and homes.

BASH: So, you just called it a reckoning in Atlanta so far. The police chief resigned, the two officers involved in the incident have faced consequences, one was placed on administrative duty and the other has been terminated.

Is that enough? And if this happened in your city, what would you be doing right now?

BENJAMIN: Well, this is -- it's important, and I thought the comments from the outgoing chief of police, I've heard comments that were very meaningful and timely. The reality is that without the relationship, true trust based on the transparent and accountable and responsive justice system, then in fact police officers can't do their jobs, they can't make sure the communities are safe, without the community actually trusting them.

So we're talking about trying to make sure that 21st century policing turns into a system of public guardians, that work hand and hand with our community, and it's against a very difficult backdrop. We're still out in the age of a pandemic, we're seeing the United States economy to some degree fall apart, our national debt now exceeds certainly our GDP. We're watching state and local governments across the country lose about a trillion dollars.

So funding these issues that historically had been the purview of the federal government, state government, mental health, a number of different things that have been divested from over the years are now falling to the cities who are strapped. So, we're going to have to watch -- we're going to have to make sure we do as much as we possibly can, ensuring that our government responds to each and every one of us, but also realizing that some of the issues are much larger than government.

The period post the civil war, 1865 --

BASH: So --

BENJAMIN: Please? You were about to ask me something?

BASH: No, please finish your thought. I apologize.

BENJAMIN: What's important to note is that post-1865, as we -- as we went into the period of reconstruction, we saw the most incredible changes in government with the passage of 13th, 14th and 15th Amendment, but never addressed the issues of systemic racism in this country. And we saw us fall back into dark period.

So, we got to look at government control and government issues, but we also got to make sure we're changing the systems outside of government, the way in which we interact with each other, as members of humanity.

BASH: Before I let you go, you mentioned the fact that you are dealing with twin crises in your city and the other is the pandemic. And in South Carolina, the numbers are going up. Your state's epidemiologist, Dr. Linda Bell, said this week she's more concerned about covid-19 than she ever has been before.

But your governor is continuing to open up things like bowling alleys, lifting other restrictions on retail establishments. Should that be reversed?

BENJAMIN: Absolutely. And we -- that's been our position from the very beginning. Truly thoughtful policy, policy health driven policy, Dr. Bell is 100 percent right.

We tested probably 5 percent of the people in South Carolina, 5.1 million people in the state, over 270,000 tested, and we're watching a precipitous increase in the number of cases.

We should focus on testing, gives us good data, data gives us intelligence, intelligence then allows us to make smart decisions. Physical distancing still works, masks work, but we've never had the consistent leadership since the World Health Organization declared the coronavirus, COVID-19, a pandemic back in March. And we're paying the price for it right now.

We're doing as much as we can at the local level. We got our businesses stepped up -- 210 businesses have stepped up and made a commitment to be resilient businesses, doing all they should do to keep their customers and their employees safe. We've invested heavily in making sure that we test heavily here.

But it's -- it's a real challenge and we do need much more leadership on the state level, for sure.

BASH: Well, I can't even imagine what it is like to be a mayor of any city right now, particularly a place like yours when you're dealing with all of this. Thank you so much, thank you for getting up early on a Sunday morning for us. Appreciate it.

BENJAMIN: Godspeed.

BASH: Thank you.

BENJAMIN: And the killing of George Floyd and the outrage that followed did set off remarkable cultural reactions in the U.S.

"The New York Times" reports there have been protests in more than 2,000 cities and town halls across the 50 states. Twenty cities have banned chokeholds. We're seeing changes in Americans' reading habits, public monuments, sporting events, television shows, but then, of course, what we talked about at the top of the hour, another police involved shooting in Atlanta. Twenty-seven-year-old African-American man killed at a Wendy's drive through on Friday night. We're going to go now to discuss all of this to another mayor of a

southern city, Stephen Reed of Montgomery, Alabama.

Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor, for joining me.

And again, let's start there -- what is your reaction to what you are seeing in Atlanta, what happened to Rayshard Brooks?

MAYOR STEVEN REED (D), MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA: It's a troubling incident, not only for Mr. Brooks and his family, but also for the entire community of Atlanta.


Anytime you have an officer-involved shooting, that is something that hits many people at different levels. And I think to have that on top of recent civil unrest is unfortunate, and it is something we're all trying to address and deal with, not only as leaders, but as members of our own local communities. And we have to make sure as policymakers that we're doing everything we can to drive that change, locally, but also all the way up to the highest levels.

Right now, the Supreme Court allows an officer to use force if it's objectionably reasonable. That's very questionable. And I think when you're trying to build that trust from our police departments, it's very hard to do that when any profession holds itself to the bare minimum standards of trust and legitimacy.

So, we have to look at these things, both in terms of the laws, certainly in terms of the culture and the conduct.

BASH: So, on that note, you announced that your police department will join the It Can't Wait Project, which includes measures like banning chokeholds, requiring a warning before shooting, exhausting alternatives before shooting.

Do you think, given what you've seen so far, if those measures were in place in Atlanta, the death of Rayshard Brooks would have been prevented?

REED: It's very hard to tell you. You know, it's easy to Monday morning quarterback that situation right now.

What we have to do is make sure that we are driving change that is not just reactionary to where we are now, but it is holistic that changes the entire culture and the way we police our communities. We have to make sure we are telling the policing in our communities the true history. I think we also have to look at changing our training from one of force to one of a guardian-type mentality.

And I think we have to remind our officers that they don't work for the police chief, they don't even work for us as mayors, they work for the community in which they serve. And I think if we can do this along with consistent investment in racial and biased training, that can be helpful, we have to make sure that we look at the type of people that we're bringing in and we're keeping on as police officers, and we also have to invest in our communities.

We have seen social services grants cut over the recent decades. We have to reinvest in our communities so that there is a better relationship between our police and our communities. So there is more trust there.

And then I think again from the policy making side, we have to do things like our House Democrats proposing the United States Congress to make sure there is a national database of police misconduct. We have to be able to find the bad apples, get them out of the business and make sure they don't spoil the entire bunch of police that we have who want to do good and who want to do the right thing.

BASH: Mayor Reed, it's a busy morning. We appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much for -- for your insights. I'm sure we will talk to you many times in the weeks and months ahead. Appreciate it.

REED: Always a pleasure.

BASH: And up next, Atlanta police -- the department is releasing new disturbing video on the moments before Rayshard Brooks' death.

Stay with us.



BASH: Welcome back to INSIDE POLITICS.

We're following new developments in the national unrest over race relations and police tactics. Atlanta police just released new videos of Friday night's deadly altercation between white officers and a black man, 27-year-old Rayshard Brooks. Brooks was shot and killed.

The new videos are disturbing, and run about 44 minutes. Our team has shortened and combined two police cam angles.

And to help us understand what we're seeing, we are joined now by CNN law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey. He is the former police commissioner of Philadelphia, and the former police chief here where I am in Washington, D.C.

OK, Chief, thank you so much for doing this. I'm going to roll the video.


BASH: And I'm going to let you narrate and explain what we're seeing and why it matters.


The engine is running. Look at the taillights. You can see they knock on the door. Clearly asleep.


POLICE OFFICER: Don't go back to sleep. Just pull over there.


RAMSEY: They ask him to pull over.

All right. At that point in time, they don't know if he's been drinking or what the situation is.


POLICE OFFICER: Do you have any weapons on you or anything like that?

RAYSHARD BROOKS: I don't have anything on me.


RAMSEY: Now, this is a critical point here, and I'll mention it because it is easy to go by it. But they're doing a field sobriety test. Apparently they did a breathalyzer as well. Came out as a .108, I believe.

This is the point in which things change. They try to handcuff him for driving under the influence. And then you can see clearly the struggle takes place, and the Taser at that point in time, which, by the way, the officer had in his hand, must have been using which is called a drive stun, which is a pain compliance technique to get him to bring him under control.

And then, of course, he flees. There is a foot chase and shortly thereafter you hear the shots fired.

But there is one point in this video that I think is critically important, which really then brings into question the actual shooting. And that is when you look at that tape, they ask a critical question, are you -- do you have any weapons?


He says, no. Can I pat you down, he says OK. So they pat him down. Once you pat him down, now you know he's not in possession of a firearm, which could obviously injure you should that be discharged at you.

The Taser itself, less than lethal weapon, it was discharged, looks like, during the course of the foot chase. But you know he's not armed now. You have to be in fear of imminent danger to your life or the life of another before you use deadly force.

They had already searched had guy. It is not like he bailed out of the car, took off running, you don't know what he has on him. They had actually patted him down. So you look to see whether or not it is necessary, reasonable, and proportional -- and I would argue that it was not necessary. BASH: And you also -- that's really important. That is the critical

point that you are making, based on your experience out there and, of course, as chief and commissioner of two major cities. The fact that he apparently took one of their Tasers, that does not -- as you said, even if he used it, that would not be deadly force, he would not have a deadly weapon that would require someone to shoot at him.

RAMSEY: Exactly. Exactly. If someone hits you with a Taser, it immobilizes you, but that's not the circumstance here. One, the prongs did not hit the officer. You would have seen an immediate reaction on his part had he been hit with the electrical charge. That didn't happen. He fired his gun.

But you knew the guy was not armed with a weapon. And so where as that's a very brief clip that you're showing there, of all of the things I've seen and I didn't see anything that would indicate they were being disrespectful or whatever toward him, I was surprised when he took off -- when he started to struggle and take off running. When they asked that one question, do you have any weapons and do you mind if I pat you down and he allowed them to pat him down, once they patted him down, now you know that at least that's not a threat to you.

And so, that changes the dynamic when yesterday when I commented on it, I had not seen video and so, you know, until you have evidence and are able to look at things, it is difficult to make a judgment. But that one piece of video tells me that they're going to have a hard time justifying that shooting.

BASH: Sure seems that way. Pretty clear why things have started to change and the police chief resigned yesterday, perhaps after seeing that body cam video that we're now seeing.

Charles Ramsey, the former police chief here in D.C., commissioner in Philadelphia, always appreciate you walking us through these very, very difficult and confusing times. Thank you so much.

RAMSEY: Quite all right. Thank you.

BASH: We're going to stay with -- thank you. We're going to stay with this story as the day continues.

But coming up, some cities and states are putting the brakes on reopening as coronavirus cases are climbing still across the U.S.



BASH: Americans are ready to be finished with the coronavirus, but the virus is far from finished with us. It's still killing between 800 and 1,000 people every day in this country. As of this weekend, 17 states are trending in the wrong direction.

And look at this, it is the trend line of new cases in the U.S., but it excludes New York and its outbreak was so big, it skews the numbers. It seems to have gotten its crisis under control.

But the other 49 states taken as a whole, they haven't bent the curve at all. Even so, the country is continuing to open back up. Indiana, Maryland and Texas are among states this weekend that are allowing people more so to pack their restaurants. California is opening up movie theaters. And South Carolina is lifting all restrictions on retail businesses.

Joining me now to share their expertise is Dr. Megan Ranney, an emergency room physician and Brown university researcher, and Ashish Jha, who is the director of Harvard's Global Health Institute.

And, Dr. Ranney, I want to put up a map of where we're seeing the cases jump this week. There are a lot of states, if you can look at it there, in red, which means that it is pretty much spiking. How worried are you?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN/BROWN UNIVERSITY: I'm quite worried, Dana. I am not surprised -- many of us in medicine and public health predicted this was going to happen. If we reopened without adequate testing, and tracing, without adequate emphasis on the public wearing masks -- listen, we're all tired of social distancing. I totally get it.

But if we go back to normal, this virus is still there, it doesn't care that we're tired, right? If we go back to normal without continuing to wear masks out in public, without maintaining some physical distancing, cases are going to spike across the United States, our intensive care units and my E.R.s are going to fill and we're going to be back where we were in early March.

We worked so hard to get here, we must keep it going for a little longer -- at a very minimum wearing masks and trying to maintain some physical distancing.


BASH: And Dr. Jha -- I want you, when you go to listen to what Steve Mnuchin, the Treasury Secretary said about the possibility or improbability of shutting down the economy again.


STEVEN MNUCHIN, U.S. SECRETARY OF TREASURY: We can't shut down the economy again. I think we have learned that if you shut down the economy, you're going to create more damage and not just economic damage but there are other areas. And we have talked about this medical problems and everything else that get put on hold.


BASH: Dr. Jha, what is your perspective on that from the public health point of view?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Yes, so, the Secretary is right -- excuse me. Nobody wants to shut down the economy again. And that is really sort of your last stop. When you've exhausted all other efforts and the virus is out of control, that's the only time you should really employ that tool. Nobody wants that.

And what happened in the past was we ignored the virus for weeks and months until it got overwhelming and then we had to shut down the economy again.

And I think what Dr. Ranney is saying and what I'm saying and all the public health folks are saying is let's not do that again. Let's take it much more seriously. Let's build in the programs we need to control the virus. And if we do that, we shouldn't have to even face that question.

But I'm worried that we're ignoring the virus and we're going to confront those issues again.

BASH: And as you probably know, President Trump is going to return to the campaign trail this coming week or next week. He's going to have a rally. Is that something that concerns you or do you think that they're going about it in a way that is going to potentially stem the spread of the coronavirus?

DR. JHA: Yes. So look, large gatherings are always a challenge. And -- but what we know is that gatherings indoors are much riskier than outdoors. If people are wearing masks, that helps mitigate.

My sense is that in his rallies, people will not be wearing masks. So I am really worried about what those rallies are going to do in terms of setting off new infections. And I just feel like he's subjecting his own followers to a risk that is -- that seems very, very dangerous to me.

BASH: And real quick, Dr. Ranney -- your response to that?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: I agree with Dr. Jha. I think it is irresponsible and potentially dangerous for those who are attending his campaign rallies. It goes against the CDC's recommendations against large indoor mass gatherings at this point.

And I worry that it is going to lead to a huge spike in cases of COVID-19 in the cities and states where those rallies are being held.

BASH: Doctors -- thank you so much for your expertise. We always learn so much from you.

And we're going to talk more about the President's return to the campaign trail and doubling down on his law and order rhetoric next.



BASH: Today is President Trump's 74th birthday and he is itching more than ever for things to get back to normal. This week he will resume one of his favorite political past times, his rallies even as the CDC is warning that large crowds still pose a high risk for coronavirus. And his own campaign is requiring attendees to absolve themselves of responsibility if they get sick.

Now, the Trump campaign and the President has been largely absent from the debate over police reform, which is consuming Congress and the country. He made little mention of current events in a commencement address at West Point yesterday. And when he did, he did it earlier in the week and he was mainly doubling down on his embrace of the police.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No matter where you go, you have bad apples and they're not too many of them. I can tell you there are not too many of them in the police.

We'll take care of our police. We're not defunding police. If anything we're going the other route.

They were dominating the street with compassion because we're saving lives and we're saving businesses.


BASH: That law and order approach sets up a stark contrast with his 2020 rival, one that Joe Biden is all too eager to highlight.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe there is systemic racism in law enforcement?

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Absolutely. It is not just in law enforcement, it is across the board. It is in housing. It is in education. It is in everything we do. It is real. It is genuine.


BASH: Joining us with their reporting on all of this is Amy Walter of "The Cook Political Report" and Toluse Olorunnipa. He is the reporter who covers the White House for "The Washington Post". Thank you, both of you for, joining me.

And Toluse -- let me start with you. What are you hearing from your sources at the White House and in the administration of what kind of stance the White House is in and the President's campaign is in going forward as he's looking to this rally and everything that is going on?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, the President wants to pretend that everything is as normal. He wants to hold his rallies like everything is normal. He wants to continue sort of supporting the police, that there is no systemic problem within policing. He hasn't come up with any major reform proposals.

So this is a president who wants to show that things are back to normal, that the economy is roaring back and that's part of the reason he wants to go to these rallies and start holding multiple political rallies despite the fact that the CDC says large gatherings are not a good idea at this point. BASH: And I want you to look at some of the polling numbers and really

important demographics that we have seen over the past week. This is from the CNN poll, talking about Biden versus Trump, with overall Biden is up 14. But look at independents, he's up 11. Nonwhite voters 40. White 2, women 27, and it's men that the President is up with just by 2 points.

Amy -- what is your take on that, particularly maybe it is just me, but I just really zeroed in on the women. Biden up 27 points there.


AMY WALTER, "THE COOK POLITICAL REPORTER": Yes. No, it is a good demographic to be zoomed in on. And, you know, you can also contrast -- or actually put that next to big changes in the way that voters, especially white voters, see the issue of systemic racism, especially within the police department, that the movement has been pretty significant.

In other words, Donald Trump is not where the country has moved. He's still on the side where the country used to be, especially where white Americans used to be.

Now, will this stay forever? Who knows, but certainly at this moment in time that's where it is. And I do think that where women are right now is really about where we are as a country at this moment.

We have a pandemic. We have these issues of police violence. Protests in the streets. I think where women voters are -- what they're looking for in a president is someone who meets this moment, maybe with a little more compassion, a little more empathy, and certainly more stability.

This is what Joe Biden is hoping that the campaign will be focused on.

Now, are we going to be talking about this five months from now? Who knows, but at least at this moment in time this leans into the benefits of the Biden candidacy, where he would like this campaign to be. It really works against where Donald Trump wants this campaign to be.

BASH: Yes, a moment in time -- we can't say that enough when we're looking at these polls. That's all they are.

Having said that, Toluse -- let's look at something that I found one of the most fascinating and that is the question of what is motivating or are voters even motivated at all. And so when you look at the question of vote for Joe Biden, 37 percent say it is for him, 60 percent say it is against Donald Trump.

And then look at those who are likely to vote for Donald Trump, 70 percent say that they are doing it because they want to vote for Trump and only 27 percent say they are doing it because they want to vote against Joe Biden. What does that tell you -- Toluse?

OLORUNNIPA: Well, President Trump is a turnout generator. We saw it in 2018, largely people turn out against him and voted for Democrats. In 2016, he was able to turn out voters who were unlikely voters. Voters who had not voted in the past.

His campaign is hoping that they can recreate that magic in 2020. But a lot of Democrats see President Trump as the number one motivator. People want to get him out of office, his low poll numbers and the number of different demographic groups show that people are eager to get him out of office.

And even if they're not so eager to vote for Joe Biden or if they don't really feel enthusiastic about Joe Biden, they are enthusiastic about the prospect of making President Trump a one-term president.

And I think that's part of the reason why Democrats have some hope that even if their turnout generation from Joe Biden isn't strong, the fact that there is so much animosity towards President Trump could help them bring out the groups that they need in order to defeat him.

BASH: Amy -- one final quick thought?

WALTER: Yes. And that's what happened in the primary too, right? There wasn't tremendous amount of enthusiasm for Joe Biden at the rallies that he had in the primary. But the key motivation for Democratic primary voters as well was beating Donald Trump and here we are.

BASH: Such a good point. Joe Biden didn't go to most of the states where he won very handily in those primaries.

Thank you, both -- so much for your reporting and your insights.

And up next, the uproar over the Tulsa rally on Juneteenth, that was supposed to happen on Juneteenth, and President Trump's uncharacteristic move around it.




PHILONISE FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: I'm tired. I'm tired of pain. Pain you feel when you watch something like this. When you watch your big brother, who you looked up to for your whole life die -- die begging for his mom.

I'm here to ask you to make it stop. The people elected you to speak for them, to make positive change. George's name means something. You have the opportunity here today to make your names mean something too.


BASH: An emotional moment on Capitol Hill as lawmakers scramble to show that they're responding to public demands for police reform.

President Trump finished another week embroiled in a controversy of his own making after his campaign announced a rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma on June 19th and was met with immediate backlash.

Nearly a century ago, Tulsa was the site of one of the worst incidents of racial violence in American history when white mobs attacked black residents and destroyed their businesses. And June 19th, also known as Juneteenth, commemorates the end of slavery after the Civil War.

Trump insisted the choice of that date was not deliberate. At first, he tried to spin it as a positive.


TRUMP: The fact that I'm having a rally on that day, you can really think about that very positively as a celebration. Because a rally to me is a celebration. It is going to be really a celebration. And it is an interesting day.

It wasn't done for that reason, but it is an interesting date. But it is a celebration.


BASH: On Friday night, in a rare retreat, the President tweeted he would move the rally by one day out of respect for this holiday.

Joining me now is the Oklahoma Democratic Party chair Alicia Andrews. And thank you so much for joining me.

Before we get to what is going to happen in your city next week, I want to ask you about what happened in Atlanta, about the video, and the killing of Rashard Brooks. What is your reaction there? And how do you think it is going to play on the streets in your cities across Oklahoma, particularly Tulsa, where the President will come?

ALICIA ANDREWS, CHAIRMAN, OKLAHOMA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: You know, I was listening to the section before and George Floyd's brother said that he was tired. And my first reaction was I too, am tired. And I'm just -- I'm confused because I think don't they know that the eyes of the world are on them?


ANDREWS: People are protesting police brutality and that some police officers don't recognize it and are continuing to perpetuate brutality is confusing and confounding for me.

BASH: And I want to bring in Mia Love, who's a former Republican congresswoman from Utah, also a CNN contributor. Thank you so much for also being here. What was your reaction to what we're seeing in Atlanta, to the killing of Rashard Brooks?

MIA LOVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's absolutely devastating. I looked at the video, I watched some of the professionals that were commenting, police officers. And you know, I think that what's unfortunate is that I believe that this man could've been subdued. He obviously didn't have a weapon. But there is this indifference that's going on where a lot of Americans are looking at this and they think, oh, that's too bad. But that wouldn't happen to me. And I think that that's where we need to stop.

People really need to get comfortable having uncomfortable conversations. First of all, I'm having conversations with my son about what could happen if he's riding his bike to the park and he's stopped by a police officer.

It's unfortunate to have those conversations but it has to happen. Americans need to have conversations with each other of all color saying when I look at something like this, do I step back and say even though I'm not racist myself, I'm not going to do anything about it because it's not my problem, it's not going to happen to me?

And also police officers have to have a conversation and say what would I want a police officer, or how would I want a police officer to treat this person if it were my child, if it were my brother, if it were my sister?

And I think until we can look at these problems systemically and inside of these communities and really look at the ugly that we're really going -- we're not going to be able to fix it until we're able to do that.

BASH: And, Alicia -- tell me about how you think that the state of Oklahoma, the city of Tulsa is going to greet the President. They say that they've already had more than 300,000 people offer or asked to buy tickets.

It's certainly, if you look at any past rallies and the intensity of the President's base, it's going to be a packed house.

What about on the outside? How aggressive do you think that the anti- Trump protesters will be?

ANDREWS: Ok. So there was a lot to unpack there. So, the facility holds 19,000 people. I have no doubt that more people than 19,000 requested seats. I do reserve some doubt that it's 300,000 but it's, you know, to me it's sort of like the crowd.

What I know that Tulsa is prepared to do is there are many peaceful rallies, there are many meaningful conversations all over the city, and really all over the state in preparation for the President's visit.

So, he will be greeted by his supporters for sure. Tulsa is known for its peaceful demonstrations, and I suspect it'll be something like that. But he will -- there will be a response on both sides -- absolutely.

BASH: And Congresswoman -- let's talk about where you worked here in Washington on Capitol Hill. Both parties really tried to play out the fact that they have police reform legislation that they are discussing. There are some big differences between what the two are discussing. And we can put some of them on the screen.

I mean just the Democrats require reporting of force data. That is the same as Republicans. Anti-lynching provision -- that's the same. But Democrats want to ban no-knock raids, Republicans want to review it. And so on, and so forth.

One thing that struck me is that your former colleague, former -- Republican leader Kevin McCarthy said that he was ok with banning chokeholds. What does that tell you knowing him and knowing how that kind of plays into the Republican conference about where it is right now on these issues?

LOVE: Well, I know Kevin. And he is incredibly thoughtful, at least. And he is trying to let people know that, look, there may be some out there that are a little outspoken, probably don't think about things that they say before they speak.

And he's a little more thoughtful. He knows how he wants the GOP to be portrayed. And so he's going to try and consider everything he possibly can. But I think fundamentally --


BASH: Do you think he'll win today?

LOVE: -- I hope so. I really do. I really hope that he can get to -- look, he didn't get to leader just by sitting back. He's actually pretty influential. And so I think that -- I respect him. I know him. I know he's trying to do the right thing. And so I hope he does win the day.


LOVE: But I really do believe that at some point, we look at Steven Reeds (ph) and the Mayor Keisha Bottom Lance (SIC) and really give them the tools and the abilities that -- the ability to police or to decide what those reforms look like.

Because as a former mayor myself, I knew that having outside police law enforcement really wasn't going to help my city, that we needed to do everything we could to bring it in house, make sure that the police that were in our community were the people that were living in our community.

BASH: Thank you so much -- Mia Love, Alicia Andrews, appreciate you joining us on this Sunday morning and giving us your important insights.

That is it for INSIDE POLITICS. Hope you can catch this show on weekdays.

And up next "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER". His guests include chief Trump economic adviser Larry Kudlow, Congressman Jim Clyburn, Senator James Lankford and Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday with us. [08:56:00]