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How to Talk to Children about Race Issues; At Least 18 States Report Rise in Infections; West Point Appearance Raises Health Questions about Trump; English Premier League to Return Wednesday; 21st Day Of Protests All Across America; Fulton County District Attorney Weighing Charges; Protesters Call for Police Reform; Increase in Police Officers Resigning; Beijing Sees Fresh Cluster of Novel Coronavirus Cases; Talking to Children about Race. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired June 16, 2020 - 00:00   ET




JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause. Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM. Demands for immediate reform to the Atlanta Police Department after another killing of an African American man.

Beijing on lockdown as the number of new coronavirus cases keeps climbing, a significant outbreak, says the WHO.

And what we fans have been waiting for, the English Premier League returns to the pitch.


VAUSE: In 21 days, they've demonstrated, there has been soul searching over unequal treatment of African Americans before the law. Grief and anger still being felt across the country, especially here in Atlanta.

Protesters returned to the streets in force after the killing of Rayshard Brooks, who was shot twice in the back by a police officer on Friday night. We've now learned that the officer had several complaints against him, including a reprimand for the use of force. The mayor said police are meant to be guardians, not warriors. She's rolling out new orders.

President Trump is expected to unveil an executive order on policing that should be on Tuesday, that he claims will be pretty comprehensive but it sounds kind of limited.

Meanwhile, the widow of Rayshard Brooks is clear that she does not want his death associated with any further violence, to keep the name of her husband, quote, "positive and great." Here is Martin Savidge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The wife of Rayshard Brooks is calling for those protesting her husband's death to remain peaceful.

TOMIKA MILLER, RAYSHARD BROOKS' WIDOW: He was a sacrifice for people to see that Black Lives Matter. and I hate that it was my husband whose life was sacrificed. But we have to stand up for our people.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): For a third straight day, crowds take to the streets of Atlanta, this demonstration called A March for Justice ended up at the state capital. Friday night, two white Atlanta police officers were called to reports of a car, blocking a drive-through at a Wendy's restaurant.

They find Brooks, a 27-year-old father of four, seemingly asleep. This as police body camera of the incident that for 20 minutes seems normal.


SAVIDGE (voice-over): Officers suspect Brooks has been drinking. As a solution, Brooks offers to leave his car behind and walk to his sister's home.

RAYSHARD BROOKS, POLICE VICTIM: I can just go home, I had -- my daughter's there right now. My 3 -- my daughter's birthday was yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Brooks, will you take a (INAUDIBLE) breath test for me?

Yes or no.

BROOKS: I don't want to refuse anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's yes or no. It's completely up to you.

BROOKS: Yes, I will.


SAVIDGE (voice-over): Brooks fails the test and as police attempt to arrest him, a struggle begins. Brooks manages to get hold of one of the officers' Tasers and runs.

What happens next is seen by a surveillance video. Officer Garrett Rolfe gives chase, transfers his Taser to his left hand and reaches for his gun. Brooks turns back towards the officer, pointing the Taser, firing it.

Officer Rolfe drops his Taser, draws his gun and fires three shots. An autopsy report reveals Brooks is shot two times in the back and rules his death a homicide. In an interview with CNN, Tomika Miller said their daughter will always associate her birthday with her father's death.


MILLER: She will forever remember this birthday as the day that my daddy was killed, the day that my daddy was murdered, not just the day that my daddy died or passed away because he didn't just die of natural causes and pass away. That's the day that he was murdered.


SAVIDGE (voice-over): Protesters took to the streets. Saturday they blocked the main highway through downtown, shutting off traffic. Police in riot gear moved in to make arrests.

Then at the Wendy's where the shooting occurred, demonstrators began breaking windows. Fires broke out on the property before someone torched the inside. Police are searching for a suspect.

Speaking on CNN, Fulton County district attorney Paul Howard says he is considering criminal charges against the two officers but is waiting on more evidence.

PAUL HUDSON, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: One of the things that we must attempt to finalize before we make a decision is to confirm the ballistics. We try to make sure that the projectiles in the body of Mr. Brooks, that we can expertly trace them to a firearm.


SAVIDGE (voice-over): Meanwhile, Tomika Miller wonders what the two officers may be thinking now.

MILLER: Do they sympathize with my family?

Do they feel sorry for what they've taken away?

That's what I want to know, you know.

If they had the chance to do it again, would they do it the same way or would they do it totally different?

SAVIDGE: Atlanta's chief of police resigned within 24 hours after the shooting. As for the two officers, the one that is believed to have fired the fatal shots -- that's Garrett Rolfe -- he's been fired from the police force, the other officer assigned to desk duty.

Meanwhile, Brooks' family and a city waits to hear if those officers will be brought up on charges -- Martin Savidge, CNN, Atlanta.


VAUSE: Redditt Hudson is the cofounder of the National Coalition of Law Enforcement Officers for Justice, Reform and Accountability. He also serves on St. Louis PD.

And it is good to have you with us.


VAUSE: I'd like you to listen to the mayor of Atlanta, who says now is the time for immediate change and the change she's talking about are just interim measures. Here's what she's talking about.


MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D-GA), ATLANTA: ... whereby if a police officer sees another officer using force, that which is beyond reasonable under the circumstances that they are duty bound to intercede and prevent that use of force and must immediately report the use of such force to an on-duty supervisor.


VAUSE: She's also talking about a requirement for the use of a de- escalation technique before the use of deadly force. This all seems fairly basic stuff.

Why does it need to be spelled out?

And the fact that it does speaks volumes.

R. HUDSON: It should be and I think there are many departments around the country that already have those policies in existence. The issue is adherence to the policies.

So as far as new training for departments, such as the mayor of Atlanta alluded to, which is still a sound suggestion, whether it's basic or not, it has to do more with accountability.

If you are not adhering to your training and are not held accountable, it's rendered meaningless. The best training for officers around this country is accountability.

If Derek Chauvin, for example, who sadistically murdered George Floyd, goes to prison for a significant part of the rest of his life, that will be excellent training for the remaining officers of Minneapolis the next time they have a suspect under their care and control and under their power, handcuffed, making a decision about whether to murder that person or not. That's really good training across the board.

VAUSE: There seems to be a general consensus building here that maybe we are past the reform stage and this continual excuse of just a few bad apples doesn't hold up, because if it's just a few bad apples, why did the entire Buffalo emergency response team resign?

57 officers to show support for 2 suspended officers who shoved a 75- year-old protester to the ground and left him bleeding there. I want you to listen to the dispatch call from Minneapolis. This is when George Floyd was pinned down with a cop's knee on his neck.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know, you can call me a snitch if you want to, but we have the cameras up for 320's call. I don't know if they had to use force or not but they got something out of the back of the squad and all of them sat on this man.


VAUSE: She starts off by saying that he doesn't want to be a snitch. Something is wrong here, something is wrong with entire police department.

R. HUDSON: That reflects a toxic culture. Police culture in this country is what it is and it's a level of toxicity in it, much of which is fueled by an institutional racism that has to be eradicated.

And I do agree that we are at a point where we are beyond traditional ideas about reform. You know, we can't tinker around the edges with a little bit of a twist to a policy here, a twist to a policy there.

We are at a stage in the development of public safety response in this country. There needs to be fundamental change in the way that we come out to help people in the community.

You've heard a lot about defunding the police. I think it's better described as reallocating funds from police departments to go toward resources in the community, agencies in the community that better respond to the kinds of problems that we get called out for.

When I was on the streets in St. Louis, widely recognized as one of the most dangerous cities in the country, sometimes ranked as one of the most dangerous cities in the world, over 50 percent of the calls I responded to wound up being referrals to a different agency that was better equipped to handle whatever it was.

But there's no question.


HUDSON: And this idea that it's just one percent or a small percentage of officers that are bad apples, it's ridiculous.

I have a friend and colleague -- his name is Cale Williams (ph) -- who wrote use of force policy for the St. Louis Police Department. And he says, I believe correctly, that on any given day in a major city, you have 15 percent of your officers who are going to do the right thing all the time. You have 15 percent of your officers who are going to abuse their power at every opportunity, whether that's planting evidence on somebody, stealing drug money.

That leaves 70 percent of your department that can go either way, depending on which 15 percent wields the greatest influence on that department. Unfortunately, consistently, it is that 15 percent that abuses their authority and power, many times based on --


VAUSE: -- that 70 percent just doesn't say anything, too. They sit back and allow it to happen in a very passive way. We are expecting the U.S. president to sign an executive order on Tuesday, implementing a number of police reform measures. This is what Mr. Trump had to say about it on Monday.


TRUMP: We're going to have some solutions, some good solutions and some of it is about great people. We need great people in our police departments and we have mostly great people. I'd say that with certainty that we have great people and that there are so many of, them law enforcement.

But we will do better, even better. And we're going to try to do it fast.


VAUSE: Given the fact that there is no one within his administration who publicly admits there's systemic racism in America --


R. HUDSON: They say the opposite.

VAUSE: -- yes, that it doesn't exist.

So what do you expect from this executive order from the president?

R. HUDSON: I would have to see what's in it, I'm sure he has no idea what's in it, right?

Whoever wrote it for him probably has weighed the political winds and decided to try to align something in the document that they are going to produce with a massive consensus that you see building around the world, around the idea of reforming the public safety response.

Donald Trump himself is full of empty platitudes and emptiness in general. He's a criminal imbecile that I have very little confidence in. We will see.

VAUSE: And a very good point to end on. Redditt, thank you, we appreciate you being with us, Redditt Hudson from St. Louis. Thank you, sir.

R. HUDSON: All right.

VAUSE: So as we mentioned, dozens of police officers have walked off the job since these protests began, especially in some of the flashpoint cities. Here in Atlanta, officials at 8 offices have resigned just this month. CNN's Josh Campbell has more.


JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (voice-over): Tonight, the city of Minneapolis confirming to CNN that at least seven police officers have now left the departments since the death of George Floyd last month. And more than half a dozen are now in the process of leaving, departing for unknown reasons.

And it's not just Minneapolis, other departments around the country are seeing police officers head for the exits, either publicly resigning from tactical teams or leaving their departments all together. From Buffalo, where two officers were suspended earlier this month after shoving an elderly protester, 57 officers resigned from the department's emergency response team.

PROTESTERS: Get your knee.

PROTESTERS: Off my neck.

PROTESTERS: Get your knee.

PROTESTERS: Off my neck.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): To Florida, where the Hallandale Beach SWAT team saw 10 resignations after city officials including the police chief took a knee with protesters. Officers there say they feel minimally equipped, under trained and restrained by politics.

To Atlanta, where six officers were charged and arrested earlier this month for excessive use of force against demonstrators. That incident followed on Friday by the police shooting of Rayshard Brooks, an African-American man killed after officers attempted to arrest him for a suspected DUI. Brooks had taken one of the officer's Tasers in a scuffle and fired at a police as he ran away.

The Atlanta police chief abruptly resigned. The district attorney there says possible charges against the officer who shot Brooks could include felony murder. A police union official warns this climate will lead to more departures.

VINCE CHAMPION, INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF POLICE OFFICERS: What we're suffering within Atlanta, I believe, is we are playing politics. We are bowing down, if you will, to try to appease the rioters.

If he gets charged without the due process and everything, I think you're going to find those officers who are senior who have the time in to get their retirement and leave, they're going to start leaving. I think you're going to start seeing officers trying to find another place to go.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): Other law enforcement experts say Brooks killing appears unjustified. And as a nation remains on edge, have a message for those considering dramatic mass resignations.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I understand the internal workings of a police department, the emotion and all that sort of thing.


RAMSEY: Well, you've got a job to do and we're in the middle of a crisis across the country. This is not the time to quit. And so I don't have very much tolerance for that sort of thing. (END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Our thanks to Josh Campbell for that report.

When we come back, lockdowns and mass testing, Beijing on a wartime footing as the coronavirus makes an unwelcome return.

And in Latin America, mixed messages from a revolving door official as the infection count just continues and continues to rise.





DR. MICHAEL RYAN, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: And when you've spent over 50 days without any significant local transmission, a cluster like this is a concern.


VAUSE: And he is talking about Beijing where at least 29 neighborhoods are under lockdown; 36 new cases of the coronavirus were reported on Monday, all linked to one of the biggest food markets in Asia. Steven Jiang reports now live from Beijing.

We're looking at this whole food market in Beijing and yet again we're looking at an outbreak from a food market spreading beyond.

STEVEN JIANG, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER, BEIJING BUREAU: That is right John, this is very alarming because, as you just heard, they have not seen any new cases until last Thursday for two months. Now authorities are focusing their extensive contact tracing and mass testing for anyone who had been to this market since May 30th.

But this is a daunting task, because according to state media, they have tracked down some 200,000 people in this category. All of them have been asked to stay at home for at least 2 weeks for medical observation in addition to getting tested.

Now the other worry, of course, some of the people who've been to the market may have already left town to travel across the country. So far we have seen cases linked to this market pop up in at least three other provinces in China.

Some of these people took trains or a flight to get there, that's why passengers on these trains and flights are being asked to report themselves to local authorities. So far though, the authorities and government experts said Beijing is not going to be the next Wuhan, despite the lack of travel restrictions.

They say given the size and population of the city, the outbreak seems localized and they are not recommending city wide testing or lockdown. But the local government here is locking down, an increasing number of neighborhoods, 29 so far. Not only neighborhoods around the market but two other markets actually as well as the scenic area.

So we are seeing this kind of measures being implemented as well as long distance bus services being suspended and more tourist attractions being closed as well as students being asked to study from home again. So in the words of the city's top Communist Party official, the situation remains very severe.


VAUSE: So if this is happening in Beijing, the capital, with all the resources and restrictive measures in place, what is happening outside of the capital in those places that you know are bit more remote, that people aren't sure if there is testing?

It raises a lot of questions about the state of the country with a second wave coming.

JIANG: That's right. This outbreak is baffling to the authorities here because, as mentioned, Beijing was considered one of the safest cities in this country, especially because of its political importance. The authorities haven't even allowed international flights to land in this city for a few months.

So this sudden outbreak, of locally transmitted cases, is very alarming. That's why they are trying to figure out what happened in that market. This market, of course, sells everything, from fruits and vegetables to meat and seafood. And that seafood link, of course, got a lot of people's attention, given many still believe this virus originated from these seafood market in Wuhan.

But so far there's no any indication of illegal wildlife trading going on. But they have found traces of the virus in multiple environmental samples taken from the market, including on chopping boards, used to chop imported salmon.

So that has caused quite a bit of panic among the consumers. But government experts have said it maybe farfetched now to link the virus to salmon. Chopping boards could be contaminated by people, employees or customers.

Again, they are trying to pinpoint the source of the virus but so far they are still not sure just yet -- John.

VAUSE: Steven, thank you, Steven Jiang, thank you, live from Beijing, we appreciate it. Thank you, Steven.

Well, in Brazil, the health ministry reported over 20,000 new virus cases on Monday, bringing the country's total to over 880,000. Brazil's outbreak continues to worsen and it's been a month now that the country has not had a health minister.

The last two were either fired or resigned, after trying to work with Jair Bolsonaro. He one time referred to the virus as a little flu. And he and Brazil's attorney general has called for investigations into hospitals, claiming politicians may be inflating the numbers to increase their government funding.

Elsewhere in Latin America, governments and health officials are sending conflicting messages as the infection count rises. CNN's Matt Rivers has more now from Mexico City.


MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: While this outbreak continues around the world, countries here in Latin America are a big part of the reason why. We know Brazil has the worst outbreak in this part of the world but it's countries like Mexico, Chile and Peru that are also playing major roles.

Start here in Mexico, where late last week, the country's deputy health secretary said the peak of the epidemic could last until July. And that's if people continue to follow the recommended social distancing guidelines.

That said, parts of the economy here in Mexico are beginning to reopen. And its president has recently said that the worst of this epidemic is behind us and that people should safely and hygienically go back out into the streets.

But him saying the worst of the epidemic is behind us contradicts what his own health ministry is saying.

Meanwhile down in Chile, the outbreak there is so bad still, that authorities have deemed it necessary to extend the state of emergency for another 90 days. That gives authorities there really remarkable powers to restrict the movements of people in that country as we've already seen with a lockdown in place in Santiago.

Finally in Peru, there were moments of reflection over the lives lost there. The archbishop of Lima held a special mass honoring COVID-19 victims. The mass took place behind closed doors and the basilica was filled with more than 5,000 photographs of those reported to have lost their lives due to the coronavirus there.

We should get some further guidance from the WHO, in terms of where they think the epidemic is going and where it is right now, in the Americas, when the Pan American Health Organization gives an update later this morning.

But safe to say we are likely not to hear from officials is that things are getting substantively better -- Matt Rivers, CNN, Mexico City.


VAUSE: Well, for the last few weeks, many have had difficult conversation about race and racism and for parents who need to have that talk with their kids, what should they say? Some advice in just a moment.

Also ahead as those U.S. states restart their economies, researchers predict the coronavirus death toll will likely double in the months ahead. We'll have that when we come back.





VAUSE: Demands for racial justice have started a much needed global conversation. But one of the tougher conversation seems to be between parents and their kids. It seems there's a right way and a wrong way to have that talk.

Joining us now is Dr. Aisha White, director of the P.R.I.D.E. Program, Positive Racial Identity Development in Early Education, at the University of Pittsburgh School of Education and the Office of Child Development.

Thank you, Aisha, for being with us. This isn't really a straightforward answer to this question. There are a lot of talks; what a white family discusses may be different from what a black family discusses. You know it's different when they're 4 or 16.

DR. AISHA WHITE, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: Yes, the important thing is for families to begin to have the conversation, have that conversation on a consistent basis.

Another thing we advise parents is they should do some internal work and think about their own racial journeys, what their racial experiences have been, so that conversation when it begins with their child is authentic and organic.

They should have conversations first with adults, so they have some practice. Believe it or not researchers, suggest that parents practice with an adult before having it with children.

VAUSE: You know when we're looking at what happening, children taking part in these demonstrations, is there a place for them at these -- as long as they're peaceful, these peaceful demonstrations, is it good for them to be attending?

WHITE: Yes, I think young children may not fully understand what's happening around him but they can see that it's something that their parents or their other relatives are committed to and passionate about, so it's a good experience for them to have as long as it ends up being a safe experience.

VAUSE: So when you thinking about having this talk, when a kid is young, what do you say?

How do you explain racism to a young kid?

WHITE: Well, I would take a step back and say you probably don't want to begin by explaining racism to young children before you start talking to them about race in general. So the beginning point I believe is having a conversation with

children about differences and really specific differences, in skin color, in hair texture, facial features, things like shape of eyes and helping them understand why people look different.

And if you start them out that way and start them out with information that is very objective and, in some cases, scientific, then you are laying the groundwork for them to learn about race in ways that don't have bias attached to them.


WHITE: I'm sorry; go ahead

VAUSE: I was going to say finish your thought but I can pick it up, because there are studies that show kids are not born racists. It's a learned behavior. A few years back, researchers found that "Beliefs about race that contribute to prejudice take a long time to develop -- when they do -- and that their development depends to some extent on the neighborhoods in which the children grow up."


Is it fair to say that what parents are saying right now, and how they act around their children, especially white parents, go a long way towards ending racism?



WHITE: I don't think that conversations will end racism, I think, a combination of conversations, and then action, and then reflection on action and then defining that action. And being engaged in really specific targeted activities. And efforts will begin to chip away at racism, but conversations alone will not.

And I would also add that sometimes children learn about race based on where they live. But all children learn about race based on the entire U.S. environment. And in some cases, the international environment.

And by that I mean that they consistently get messages about whiteness being preferred, and that might not necessarily might not come from the home. It could come from things like what they see on the news stand at the grocery store, who they see as their doctor or their nurse, and what they see on television and in other kinds of media.

So it comes from being king of enveloped in this whole world of whiteness, and there's a well-known scholar named Beverly Daniel Tatum. She describes it as smog, racism as smog, and something that you might not always be able to see, but all the time you're breathing it in, and because you're breathing it in, you eventually breathe it out.

VAUSE: For most kids, they love the police. You know, when they're little, they play cops and robbers. So how do you say -- explain to a little kid, you know, that policeman shooting that black man in that back, or he's got his neck on -- he's got his knee on that guy, that black man's neck, and he can't breathe? How do you deal with that as a parent?

WHITE: Well, depending on the age of the child, you might not even want to start talking about the police with them, because it may be, at least in situations like that, it may be a little too scary for them.

And I don't want to use that same old story of people saying that there are good and bad policeman, because it's a lot more complicated than that. It has to do not only with individuals, but also with systems. And so it's something that you might not be able to explain to a young child, unless you can explain what systems are, because that's not an easy concept for them to understand.

VAUSE: Yes. We're almost out of time, but just very, very quickly, so when it comes to explaining to the kids exactly what's going on in the moment, what's the best piece of advice?

WHITE: Well, the best piece of advice, I think, is to help children understand that you will help to keep them safe. Because what they're seeing is, if they're watching the news -- and I would recommend that they not watch the news if they're under a certain age -- I would say that, if there're, say, 5 and under, maybe you should keep them away from the television when the media continues to repeatedly show those images.

But I would say that the most important thing for parents to do is to behave in ways that they believe represent being open and honest and human to all people, and your children will model that. And also, engage in conversations with your child starting at a very early age.


WHITE: And I would add that most people don't know that children can actually tell the difference in skin color as young as 3 months old. And so you can't talk to a 3-month-old, but you can talk to a 1-year- old and a 2-year-old and a 3-year-old.

VAUSE: Good advice to finish on. Aisha, thank you so much for being with us.

WHITE: You're welcome.

VAUSE: The widely cited model now projects the coronavirus could kill more than 200,000 people in the United States by October, up from last week's projection of 170,000.

Researchers say the numbers rose partly because some states have been easing restrictions too soon. CNN's Erica Hill reports many of those places are starting to see high infection rates.


MAYOR DAN GELBER (D), MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: People really have got to take this seriously. It's not -- this is not an all-clear where people can do whatever they want.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The mayor of Miami Beach not ruling out new mandates for his city, one of the last in Florida to reopen as cases across the state continue to rise. More than 2,500 new cases added on Saturday, a third straight day of record high numbers. They're up in Texas, too, and it's not just because there's more testing.

DR. UMAIR SHAH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH: The question I'm getting asked a lot is, you know, did reopening or did other events have something to do with this, and some saying, no, it didn't. And the answer is, absolutely it did. The hard part is to know how much.

HILL: Across the country, 18 states seeing the number of new cases trend up over the past week.

In Oklahoma, also deep orange on the map, Tulsa recorded its highest daily increase in cases on Friday. President Trump is scheduled to hold a campaign rally there this weekend. The county health director telling the local paper he wishes it could be postponed to "a time when the virus isn't as large a concern."


GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): People are violating everything, everything.

HILL: In New York state, more than 25,000 complaints about businesses and patrons breaking the rules. Governor Andrew Cuomo tweeting this video of packed streets and few face coverings.

CUOMO: There are a lot of conscientious people who paid a very high price, did the right thing, and they don't want other people ruining it for them.

HILL: The surgeon general encouraging Americans to wear a mask, tweeting face coverings bring freedom.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, in a new interview with "The Telegraph," urging people to keep them on when chanting and screaming at demonstrations, estimating "real normality" likely won't return until at least next year.

The CDC now recommending all close contacts of confirmed cases should be tested, not just quarantined and monitored.

South Carolina Congressman Tom Rice announcing on Facebook today he and his family are recovering from the virus, though calling it "the Wuhan flu." Last month, he told CNN he didn't wear a mask on the House floor, because he was socially distancing.

And the FDA revoking emergency-use authorization for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine based on new evidence that they may not be effective to treat COVID-19 and could have adverse health effects.


HILL: President Trump repeatedly touted the drug without evidence.

Erica Hill, CNN, New York.


VAUSE: Anne Rimoin is a professor at the UCLA Department of Epidemiology and director of the school's Center for Global and Immigrant Health. She is with us from Los Angeles.

Good to see you.


VAUSE: OK. You know, at first, we're told masks, no use in preventing, don't wear them. You know, don't -- they won't do anything. They're no good, unless it's an N-95. Then we're told a mask is good, but don't go out and get them, because the healthcare workers need them.

Then we're told, OK, well, they're good at preventing someone who's asymptomatic from spreading the germs. You've got to do it for everybody else.

And now we have this from the National Academy of Sciences which looked at this. They say, "Our study establishes very clearly that using a face mask is not only useful to prevent infected coughing droplets from reaching uninfected persons, but is also crucial for these uninfected persons to avoid breathing the minute atmospheric particles that infected people emit when talking and that can remain in the atmosphere tens of minutes and travel tens of feet."

So wear a mask, don't wear a mask, where are we at? What's the advice?

RIMOIN: Wear a mask.

VAUSE: Hallelujah.

RIMOIN: That's what everybody should be doing. And there -- the evidence for this has been mounting. Listen, you know, we know -- we have, over the course of the last few months, we've learned quite a bit about this virus, how it spreads, and how we can prevent infections. And the evidence has become very clear that masks work.

VAUSE: Let's just be clear, though. Masks work. Because initially, we were told you're doing this selfless act. The mask won't protect you from getting the -- the virus, but it will stop someone from getting it from you if you're asymptomatic. But now it's both ways, right?

RIMOIN: Well, listen, the thing is about masks is that it depends upon the masks, it depends upon the quality of the mask. It depends upon how the person is wearing the mask, and nothing is going to provide perfect protection against infection.

But a mask, any mask will definitely provide some measure of protection. Some will provide more than others. And so the fact of the matter is, at the very least, what a mask will do is to keep your droplets to yourself, as I like to say, and make sure that you're not spreading to other people.

And there can be added value. There can be added benefit of -- of having some protective benefit, as well, but it really depends upon the mask and how the mask is worn.

VAUSE: Yes. Because the 95 in N-95 is like 95 percent effective against catching all viruses and other stuff, right? And then you get down to those surgical hospital masks, which a lot of people wear. They're about 70 percent effective in helping you not catch a virus. And then you go down to the pieces of cloth, or whatever, the cloth masks, which are 30 percent. Have I got these numbers about right?

RIMOIN: I don't actually know the exact numbers for -- for this, and the data has been coming out, which -- you know, we haven't really been studying this before in great detail. And so we're only just now learning about this.

But the -- but the proportion of what you're saying is exactly the truth. That what we know is that masks will provide protection, and a cloth mask provides, probably, the least amount of protection, but it still does a good job of protecting other people from you.

The next, of course, being a surgical mask and then an N-95, absolutely. These are all very important options.

And as we have looked at other countries that have been able to stop the spread of the virus and do a really good job of keeping infection rates low, they're all countries where people have been wearing masks and adopted mask wearing very easily.


You know, our problem is that, all of a sudden, masks has become politicized. And something about, you know -- something about liberty versus -- versus, you know, science.

And -- and the fact of the matter is, is that masks will make a difference. And the more people wear masks, the sooner we'll be able to -- to be able to stop the spread of the virus, or really reduce the spread of the virus. And so it's in everybody's best interest.

VAUSE: Absolutely. But wear them where? Outside all the time, inside all the time, counted (ph) areas? Again, because people aren't going to wear masks all the time, the bottom line. They want to take them off when they feel it's safe. So where is it safe or safer not to wear a mask?

RIMOIN: When you're in a public space, you should wear a mask. When you're home, when you're with other people that you do not need to protect or be protected from, that you're -- that you're living with, then you can take the mask off. Or you don't need to be wearing a mask at home. But for example, for people who have been out protesting or have been

-- have not been a socially distant, my recommendation is, if you go home and you can't self-quarantine, if you live with other people, if you have to go to work, wear a mask. You're going to protect other people as -- from you. So that's the perfect example of when you should be wearing a mask.

So if you are in a home where you are living with people who might be more vulnerable than you are or you've put yourself in a situation where you may have been exposed, wear a mask.

And wear masks all other times when you're outside. It's the right thing to do. It will protect other people. And we will be able to reduce the spread of this virus.

VAUSE: It's the right thing to do. That's the key.

I want to talk very quickly about a vaccine, which many non-mask wears are counting on, I think. But something which I haven't really heard about here when we're talking about a vaccine is the definition of success. Is it enough for a vaccine to prevent a severe round of COVID-19? Does it also need to prevent moderate rounds of COVID-19? Does it need to prevent it altogether? Does it need to stop transmission? What are we looking at here? What are we striving for in a vaccine?

RIMOIN: Well, you know, no vaccine is going to be perfect. But a vaccine that can do any of the things that you have just -- that you have just listed will be an important stride. It will be a very important move forward that will help us be able to return to normal.

If we are less afraid of getting this virus because the -- it becomes a less severe infection, that is a major, major move in the right direction.

If it -- it it means that you are 40 to 60 percent protected against the virus, like we are with most flu vaccines, that's a major, major improvement upon where we are right now.

So any vaccine that can make a change in how severe the virus is or whether or not we get it and or can spread it to other people is important. What we'll end up with, we'll see. The data is not out yet. So we're still waiting to learn more about what these vaccines are, what the data looks like, and -- and what kind of protection they can provide.

VAUSE: Anne Rimoin, you are awesome. Thank you so much. It's great having you with us. Your advice and your expertise is so much appreciated. Thank you.

RIMOIN: It's my pleasure.

VAUSE: Well, the U.S. Supreme Court has delivered a landmark ruling in favor of the LGBTQ community.

The long-standing law which bars workplace discrimination based on sex extends to people who face bias because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

President Trump's first appointee, Neil Gorsuch, wrote six -- actually wrote the 6-3 ruling, is what I'm trying to say. It comes a week after the Trump administration lifted protections for transgender people in healthcare.

Well, still to come, an awkward sip of water, a cautious walk down a ramp. How a weekend appearance is raising some questions about Donald Trump's health.



VAUSE: President Trump's recent appearance at the West Point Military Academy has raised more questions about his health. We know he has a heart condition, he's obese, but overall, Mr. Trump likes to keep his health an issue close to his chest. CNN's Brian Todd reports.


BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the graduation stand at West Point, the president needs to support his right-hand with his left as he takes a drink of water.

Moments later, he walks hesitantly down the ramp, steadying both feet on each step.

Later, President Trump was defensive in a tweet: "The ramp that I descended was very long and steep, had no handrail and, most importantly, was very slippery. The last thing I was going to do is fall for the fake news to have fun with. Final ten feet I ran down to level ground. Momentum!"

But there's no evidence that the ramp was slippery, and the weather was very clear at West Point on Saturday, so those optics are now drawing concern over the president's health.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Is there balance problems? Is there some weakness there? Is there numbness in the feet, perhaps, a type of neuropathy? Is it just a slippery ramp, as the president said, or slippery shoes? You don't know. And I think you've got to be very cautious in trying to determine anything.

TODD: People who encountered Trump at his Bedminster, New Jersey, golf club over the weekend later told CNN Trump did not appear to be physically out of sorts there. Those people said he seemed normal and healthy.

But the president has had similar moments before. In 2017, he clutched the hand of then-Prime Minister Theresa May as they walked down an incline in the White House colonnade, then quickly tapped her hand, apparently to make her stop holding his hand.

As for the president steadying his own hand while drinking water -- GUPTA: Is it a shoulder problem? I mean, is it a hand numbness or

something? You know, again, these are speculations. I've noticed that he's done that before. That wasn't just the first time, so I don't know if this is something he does in public.

TODD: Doctor Gupta is referring to this moment, almost identical to what happened at West Point, December 2017. Trump studies his right- hand with his left as he drinks water during an address.

Trump, who just turned 74, is the oldest first-term president in American history. But more concerning to medical experts is how little we know about his actual health.

Last November, Trump made an unannounced secretive visit to Walter Reid Hospital to take exams preparing for a physical. Recently, the White House released the results of Trump's physical, indicating he falls just barely into the obese category.

But the White House doctor says there are no changes to the president's health, and his press secretary says he's healthy.

ARTHUR CAPLAN, MEDICAL ETHICS DIVISION DIRECTOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Our biggest worry is we have an election between Trump and Biden, and Trump somehow, in the middle of this, becomes somewhat incapacitated but covers it up, doesn't let us know that the person we're going to vote for may become increasingly disabled during a second term.

TODD (on camera): After Trump's first presidential physical, our Sanjay Gupta reported that Trump has a common form of heart disease. Trump's doctor at the time recommended an increase in the dosage of his cholesterol-lowering medication and certain lifestyle changes, and the Mayo Clinic said that, without those changes, Trump would run a risk of having a heart attack in three to five years.

Last year, sources close to Trump told CNN that he had stuck with certain changes to improve his diet but had not stuck with an exercise regimen.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.


VAUSE: After three long pandemic months, one of the biggest football leagues in the world set to return, a bright spot in the midst of this coronavirus outbreak.



VAUSE: Major League baseball may or may not be returning for a new season. The baseball union says players are disgusted because on Wednesday, baseball commissioner Rob Manfred said he was, quote, "100 percent sure there would be a season," but on Monday he told ESPN he's not certain, because there's been no dialogue between the owners and the union. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROB MANFRED, MLB COMMISSIONER: It's just a disaster for our game. Absolutely no question about it. It shouldn't be happening, and it's important that we find a way to get past it and get the game back on the field for the benefit of our fans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you describe your feelings as confident that there will still be a season?

MANFRED: I'm not confident.


VAUSE: The players association says this is about expecting more pay cuts for players, as part of what it calls a bad faith campaign.

In the U.K., the English Premier League is about to make its long- awaited return. First matches are set for Wednesday.

CNN's "WORLD SPORT's" Don Riddell is with me now for more. So Don, the Premier League, it's the world's biggest domestic football league, the most famous. It's been missed around the world, to say the least. So what can we look forward to now that it's coming back?

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: John, good to see you. A hundred days -- can you believe that? -- 100 days since we last saw a ball kicked in the Premier League. Hopefully, it's all going to be worth the wait now that it's coming back this week.

Liverpool are obviously the biggest storyline. The most dominant team in the country, who raced into an extraordinary 25-point lead and who were right on the brink of clinching their first league title in exactly 30 years. It is surely now inevitable that they will do it, and it would've been incredibly cruel if they had been denied it.

Here's what you need to know, they only need two wins for their last nine games, and if Man City lose to Arsenal in their first game back on Wednesday, then actually, Liverpool would only need one win, and that could be in their own city against Everton on Sunday.

VAUSE: Just wondering. Was there ever a point, was there any serious talk or -- about the league just sort of giving everything up, walking away and never coming back on like it is now?

RIDDELL: Well, there was never a guarantee that it was going to be finished. I mean, just look around Europe. The Scottish league, Dutch league and Ligue 1 in France never returned.

And there was a great deal of concern about the Premier League, especially given that the U.K. has one of the highest death totals in the world, and packed stadiums are super-spreader events.

But there is so much money at stake that nobody seemed to really want to cancel it. And the return of the Bundesliga last month in Germany showed how it can be done safely. Obviously, there won't be any fans at these games. The option of fake

crowd noise will be piped in through your television speakers, but that is all a lot better for sports fans than the alternative.

VAUSE: Where there is money, there is always a way, I guess. I believe one of the first games, though, will feature Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta. So he is a survivor, if you like.

RIDDELL: Yes, how fitting that he's involved in the first game. One of the most prominent people in European football to actually contract the coronavirus back in March.

And it was the news of that which prompted the Premier League to screech to a halt. If it wasn't for that, at least one more round of games would surely have been played in England, and tens of thousands of fans would have been packed into stadiums, spreading the virus around.

So I guess, unwittingly, Mike Arteta may well have saved a lot of lives.


MIKEL ARTETA, DIAGNOSED WITH CORONAVIRUS IN MARCH: I have thought about it, and I certainly -- the night that I started to have some symptoms, how serious that was. And it was a matter that I could not make a decision, but it had to be reported because I was putting at risk a lot of people, and I wasn't willing to do that.

I love this game, but we have bigger responsibilities than that to do that. I think we made the right call and the right decision, I think, after, the authorities and the Premier League, as well. I really am strong on that, and I think I agree with you that it could have been much worse.



JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Mikel Arteta looking well, at least. You know, so much has changed, though. I know, like, the last game, what March 9, that was a long -- that was a world away. You know, that was ancient history.

You know, and we're not just talking about, you know, the world and a pandemic and, you know, COVID-19. There's been sort of a global awakening, as well, on racial issues. And a lot of players in the United States, in professional sports and around the world and the U.K., all making their voices heard, as well.

RIDDELL: Yes. And we've seen that in recent weeks with players in Germany, Italy and Spain, have demonstrably come out in support of the Black Lives Matter movement. Several players have displayed slogans and messages of support.

At the weekend, actually, Real Madrid's defender, Marcelo, knelt on one knee and prominently raised his fist.

I'm pretty sure that we're going to see something similar across these games when the Premier League returns. Players in England were already pretty vocal about racial abuse and social injustice.

One of the most prominent, actually, is Manchester United striker Marcus Rashford.

Now, you may recall at the start of the coronavirus episode, the U.K. government picked on overpaid Premier League football players and tried to make an example of them for not doing enough to help in times of hardship. Well, many of them ended up being very charitable, and now the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak. Rashford has already raised $25 million for a food distribution charity, and he's just written an open letter to politicians in Britain, urging them to keep the school meal voucher program going throughout the summer holiday.


MARCUS RASHFORD, MANCHESTER UNITED PLAYER: I'm just hoping they do it as soon as possible, really. I know they've mentioned that they usually do that this -- you know, this time of year, summer holidays, but because of -- because of COVID, the situation has been completely different for -- for everyone in the world.

You know, my mom was a single parent. She's got five kids that was all living in the same house. And that moment was the -- the most difficult moment. She's working very hard to -- to put food on the table, and then it's the stress on her -- on the shoulders that -- that affected her after we've had enough (ph).


RIDDELL: An old, wise head on some very young shoulders there.

Marcus Rashford, he's done incredible good throughout this coronavirus episode. Now, of course, he's looking forward to getting back into action on the field -- John.

VAUSE: Yes, good point. Good one to finish on, Don. Thanks. Appreciate it.

And thank you for watching. I'm John Vause, but please stay with us. Another hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts after a very short break.