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Nearly Half of U.S. States See Increase in COVID-19 Cases; NY Governor Weighs Quarantine for Travelers from Some States; New Restrictions in China as Beijing COVID-19 Cluster Grows; Fired Atlanta Cop Turns Himself In, Faces Felony Murder; Trump's Conversations with China's Xi Revealed in New Book; Pompeo Calls Bolton a 'Traitor' for 'Lies' About Trump; U.S. Unemployment Claims Still High; Venice Imagines a Different Future in the COVID-19 Era. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired June 19, 2020 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes.
Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, President Trump in denial as he claims with a straight face that the coronavirus is going away. Spoiler alert: it is not. That was a lie.
We're getting late reaction to the explosive John Bolton tell-all book. Here what the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, has to say.
And also this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAYSHARD BROOKS, KILLED BY POLICE: Hey, you know, I have to have my -- my guard up, because the world is cruel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Rayshard Brooks in his own words, the interview recorded just months before his death.
Thanks for your company, everyone. We begin in the United States, the country with the most reported cases and deaths in this global pandemic, once again, struggling to get the coronavirus under control. Nearly half of the states across the nation are seeing increases in infections.
On Thursday, Johns Hopkins University reporting nearly 26,000 new cases, and yet President Donald Trump claims the U.S. has largely beaten the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you look, the numbers are very miniscule, compared to what it was. It's dying out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Needless to say, it is not dying out. Oklahoma has recorded its largest increase in new cases since the pandemic began. And, that, by the way, is where the president is planning to hold his rally on Saturday, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. One planning officials said they could draw nearly 100,000 people to the event. The stadium itself only holds 20,000 or so.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi calling the event dangerous.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): For the president to have his ego trip that he wants to take to Tulsa to have a mass rally of people coming together, endangering their own health, and the people that they go home to; for the vice president of the United States to talk about, to go visiting places without a mask, is a bad example to the public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, masks will apparently be handed out at the rally, but people won't be required to wear them. Many of them already in line say they won't.
Meanwhile, health experts telling CNN they're urging the city of Tulsa to shut the event down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JONATHAN REINER, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: The risk is real. Tulsa just had a record number of cases. In the last week, the number of COVID-19 cases in Tulsa is up 111 percent. It's unsafe to have this event in Tulsa right now, and the county health commissioner should shut it down. I think it's possible they will. It's not safe to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, besides Oklahoma, nine other U.S. states are also seeing record high numbers of new daily cases this week. Hospital beds filling up again. State officials are trying to decide whether to require people to wear masks in public. And scientists say it is because states opened up too soon and need to think about social distancing again.
Erica Hill breaks it all down for us.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Record single-day highs for new cases. Just over 2,500 added Thursday in Arizona, more than 3,200 reported in Florida.
DR. JEANNE MARRAZZO, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM: Florida has always made the stuff of nightmares, I think, for me.
HILL: New modeling predicts that state could become the next epicenter. The president dismissing the data.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: One of the problems we face in the United States is that, unfortunately, there is a combination of an anti-science bias. They just don't believe science, and they don't believe authority. And that's unfortunate, because, you know, science is truth.
HILL: Florida is one of 10 states posting their highest seven-day averages for new cases, as 23 states report an uptick in new cases over the past week. New York, among the 19 seeing a decline as Governor Cuomo considers a quarantine for anyone traveling to his state from Florida. GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): I have experts who have advised me to do
Who would believe this 180 turnaround?
HILL: Face coverings now mandatory statewide in California. Local officials in hard-hit Texas and Arizona pushing for stricter regulations, citing the science.
DR. COLLEEN KRAFT, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT, EMORY UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Wearing a mask or not wearing a mask should not be how you -- how you're going to vote in the upcoming election. It's really about protecting yourself from -- from an infection.
HILL: When it comes to infection, those with Type A blood have a higher risk of catching the virus and developing severe symptoms. Type O has the lowest risk, according to new research just published in "The New England Journal of Medicine."
The nation's top infectious disease expert optimistic about a vaccine.
FAUCI: We're going to move fast, and we're going to assume we're going to be successful. And if we're not, the only thing we've lost is money. But better lose money than lose lives by delaying the vaccine.
HILL: Football likely sidelined this season, Doctor Fauci telling CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta, "Unless players are essentially in a bubble, insulated from the community and tested nearly every day, it will be very hard to see how football is able to be played this fall."
Thirteen players at the University of Texas positive for the virus, according to the school. College football is slated for kick off August 29.
(on camera): Here in New York City, on Thursday, Mayor Bill de Blasio announcing the city will move into phase 2 on Monday, and restaurants will be allowed to offer outdoor dining. Of course, all the rules will apply in terms of social distancing. But that's an important step forward in this city.
Meantime, the governor of this state, Andrew Cuomo, also announcing an executive order on Thursday for businesses who do not comply with the rules and regulations for reopening. They could be subject to losing their liquor license.
Back to you.
HOLMES: And Dr. Jorge Rodriguez practices internal medicine and is a viral specialist. He joins me now from Los Angeles.
Good to see you again, Doctor.
So yes, Wednesday in the U.S., June 17, 25,610 cases. That's up seven percent over the previous 14 days, as we've been saying. Twenty-three states have increased in numbers.
Clearly, despite what the president and vice president say, the situation is getting worse, not better. What is being done wrong?
DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNAL MEDICINE AND VIRAL SPECIALIST: Well, you're absolutely right. The situation is definitely -- has not gone away. He said that this is not a second wave. He's correct. It is the continuation of the first wave.
And unfortunately, there are hotspots throughout the country. And we travel now throughout the country, so we are spreading this virus from Florida to Arizona to Las Vegas to California.
What's being done, unfortunately, is not a concerted effort. I believe that not until there is a federal strict guideline as to what every state should do, are we going to contain this. It just doesn't make sense that we have these hodgepodge states and communities all getting out completely different recommendations. It's just not going to work.
HOLMES: Yes. Yes, indeed. One place with rising numbers, as we're just saying is Tulsa, Oklahoma, where you look at where big spreads have happened throughout this pandemic: meatpacking plants, church services, student graduation parties, reopen bars.
And yet the president wants to get a bunch of people together in an enclosed place for a political rally, where you sign a waiver you won't sue if you catch it.
What is your take on that rally even happening?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, my take is that not only is it ludicrous, I think it's borderline, if not completely, criminal. People are being asked, because of political reasons, to put their life at risk.
We don't have major sporting events for this reason. We don't have concerts for this reason. We know that there are two things that spread the virus more than anything, and not only is that being in close proximity to someone who's infectious, but being in close proximity for a prolonged period of time.
This rally is basically asking for trouble. And it's going to get it. There's no way that people are going to come out of there unscathed and will not spread it. It's just not going to happen.
HOLMES: The president said, quote, "If you look at the numbers, the numbers are very miniscule compared to what it was. It's dying out. We'll go there" -- meaning Tulsa. "Everyone is going to be safe."
The vice president said, "There are embers of the virus," said there's no second wave. As you pointed out, we're not done with the first wave.
What are the risks of that kind of messaging to the American people?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, it's very detrimental. And unfortunately, this pandemic in the United States has become politicized. People are already lining up in Tulsa. People, it's hard to believe.
You know, here in the U.S., the basketball games are skins and shirts. It's now the two teams are masks and no masks. And that is a shame. So people are using not wearing a mask almost as a MAGA hat.
And since the president says that there's nothing wrong, I'll be darned some people are going to go out there and prove that there's nothing wrong. You know, give me liberty or give me death. I'm afraid they're going to get both. The liberty to do what they want and deadly results from it.
HOLMES: What do you make of that small study that was published in the journal, "Nature" medicine on Thursday? And we're just hearing a report about it. Found that a group of about three dozen COVID-19 patients from Wuhan, basically asymptomatic carriers, were infectious longer than those with symptoms and produced fewer antibodies. I mean, it's confusing. Does that just show how little we do know about this thing?
RODRIGUEZ: Exactly. That was going to be my point. The good thing about a study like this is that we are learning.
Michael, we have to keep in mind that humans have never been infected with this virus before. So we don't know what's going to happen. This study showed that people that didn't get a lot of virus, probably the ones that are asymptomatic, didn't develop a lot of antibodies. And if they did, those antibodies, 40 percent of them have lost them within two months.
So this should be a cautionary tale for people that have antibodies and assume that they are forever going to be protected against the virus. We don't know if that's the case. We don't even know for how many months you're going to be protected.
So the bottom line and the final -- and the message is that, until we have a treatment or a vaccine, we need to wear facial coverings, use extreme hygiene, and social distancing, because we still don't have all the answers.
HOLMES: Yes. Yes, Doctor Fauci commenting on what he calls anti- science bias among many in America. That some people in the country, they just won't believe the science, even when it's compelling and put right there in front of them. Do you agree? And what's the danger?
RODRIGUEZ: I -- I agree with him 110 percent. This is something that's been happening for a while in this country. And listen, if I'm going to get -- and I already have, I guess -- very political, is I think the amount of education in this country has decreased.
If you don't understand science, how can you believe in science? You know? And institutions are also being questioned.
I don't see people questioning how an airplane flies. Right? They still trust that it does. But something has happened, in the fact that now we get snippets, because of mass information through the Internet, and we sort of use that information to validate what we believe, as opposed to understanding science that has been around forever.
So I hate to say it. I think we've gotten dumber. Therefore, we don't believe people that we think are smarter. I don't know if that's fair to, but I do believe that he's right.
HOLMES: It's staggering, isn't it? Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, great to talk to you, as always. Thanks so much.
HOLMES: Well, the governor of New York is considering a quarantine for travelers from Florida and other states where the cases are going up. Governor Andrew Cuomo explaining why to CNN's Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
CUOMO: It is doable, and that -- that's what happened at the beginning of this, if you remember. It seems like a lifetime ago. People put a quarantine on in their states, that people coming into their state needed to be quarantined for 14 days.
What they were saying is if you come to their state, and you come from a state that had a high infection rate, you -- it was a mandatory quarantine for 14 days so you didn't infect their state.
Now, the tide -- the tables have turned 180 degrees. And we're considering it for New York. You have a lot of people in these states where the infection rate is going through the roof. New York is in better shape in their state. And we are seeing people who want to come to New York. And I understand that.
But we worked very hard to get the infection rate down. I don't want to see it going back up.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It seems like you always have to think a few chess moves ahead, Governor. And if the state does decide someone must quarantine, for example, I think you have to think about where, exactly, are they going to go, how long it is. But how -- will that be enforceable? Will you be able to enforce that in some way?
CUOMO: Well, again, Sanjay, we -- this happened the first go-around. And it can be enforced, and it can be done.
I mean, the cruel irony is why are we here? Right? If you could take New York state, that had the worst infection rate on the globe, per capita, and we turned it around in a matter of 100 days.
Why are we seeing these increases in other states? That's the question we have to be asking ourselves. We know that more people are going to wind up dying now. We've seen the models that Anderson was just referring to.
In one week, they said another 30,000 people would die by October. They made that shift in one week, because they're extrapolating from this new viral spread. Thirty thousand people who, they project, will die who didn't need to die. I don't know why, what we have to do to get a wake-up call in this nation.
HOLMES: And you can watch a replay of our global town hall, "CORONAVIRUS FACTS AND FEARS" just over 90 minutes from now, 7 a.m. if you're in London. That's 2 p.m. if you are in Hong Kong.
Dozens of new cases reported in China, setting back officials' claims of success in the fight against coronavirus. Some of these cases are linked to a major food market in Beijing. A top health official says the outbreak is under control and praised authorities for stepping up restrictions.
More than 350,000 people connected to the market are reportedly being tested. Three hundred and fifty thousand.
CNN's Anna Coren joins me now, live from Hong Kong.
Three hundred and fifty thousand. That's a remarkable test-and-trace operation but still a worrying moment for the country.
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. You know, because China has the system that it has, it can shut down cities like it has done to the capital, Beijing.
It's a soft lockdown, and you know, you can still move around, but in those high-risk areas, and those high-risk communities, they have been fully shut off.
It is virtually impossible to leave Beijing now unless you prove via test that you are negative.
But as you say, authorities have come out saying that this is under control. However, cases are still rising. Today, 28 new cases have been announced, 25 of those in Beijing, taking the number in Beijing to 183, stemming from that Shinfadi food market.
This is a wholesale market, an enormous operation, in which tens of thousands of people would visit and work in every single day. That was shut down over the weekend.
The Chinese CDC came out and said that most of the patients who had contracted the virus worked at meat and seafood stands. And the reason, they say, is because of the low temperatures and the high humidity, which are favorable to -- to the coronavirus surviving.
The coronavirus was detected on a chopping board used to chop up salmon that had been imported from Europe. There was a lot of speculation as to whether the imports of salmon had -- had brought in this virus. Health officials have knocked that on the head, saying that is not the case. It is most likely a transmission to transmission, person to person.
But it still is -- is very worrying. I mean, this is the capital of China. Twenty-one million people live there. The city itself, you know, is in wartime mode. That is how officials have described it, Michael, as they try desperately to contain this outbreak.
HOLMES: Yes, you touched on this, and it's interesting, too, what they're doing. I mean, China, you know, reopening itself. What are the precautions they're taking? It's all very high-tech, isn't it?
COREN: Yes, for sure. I mean, they're tracing, contact tracing. You mentioned the 356,000 people they believed have visited the market since the 30th of May, the mass testing that is -- that is underway.
I mean, we saw this in Wuhan, the way that China responded after that initial outbreak.
I think the major concern for authorities, this was now the capital. You know, the political center of China. That is where Xi Jinping, the Communist Party, is based.
And we heard from the president back in February, saying that protecting Beijing from a coronavirus outbreak was the No. 1 priority of the party of the country.
So, you know, obviously, authorities taking this extremely seriously, shutting down those high-risk neighborhoods, restricting travel. Flights have been canceled. Rail, bus, travel also canceled. It is virtually impossible, as I've said, to leave the capital, unless you test negative, Michael.
HOLMES: Anna Coren in Hong Kong. Appreciate it. Thanks, Anna.
We're going to take a quick break here on the program. When we come back, new details in the killing of a black man by Atlanta police. Just ahead, what sentence the district attorney says he might pursue in this case.
Also, we will tell you why one case. Also, we'll tell you why one current member of the Trump administration says a former member is a liar and a traitor. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
HOLMES: Welcome back. We have some new developments in the case of two Atlanta police officers charged in the killing of a black man, Rayshard Brooks. The Fulton County district attorney says he will not seek the death penalty against fired Officer Garrett Rolfe. Paul Howard explained that decision to CNN's Wolf Blitzer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL HOWARD, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, I think it's clear that we're not asking for the death penalty. We simply cited that, because statutorily, that is one of the possible sentences. But we're not seeking the death penalty. I don't think anyone rationally expected that we would ask for the death penalty in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Rolfe and his former partner, Devin Brosnan, both turned themselves into police on Thursday. CNN's Ryan Young with more.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After nearly a week of emotions, anger, and tension, both responding officers charged in the shooting death of Rayshard Brooks have surrendered.
Former Atlanta Police Officer Garrett Rolfe is being held without bond, stemming from 11 charges, including felony murder. His attorneys told CNN his use of force was justified.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Critics say, you overcharged. How do you respond to that?
HOWARD: Well, I just say that's just not true. What we did is we charged based upon the facts.
YOUNG: Officer Devin Brosnan turned himself in earlier today and has since been released on a signature bond. Brosnan is charged with aggravated assault for allegedly standing on Brooks's shoulders, which she denies.
His attorney says Brosnan put his foot on Brooks's arm for less than 10 seconds to make sure he couldn't get access to a weapon.
DON SAMUEL, DEVIN BROSNAN'S ATTORNEY: He's disappointed in the system, to be honest with you. He was dedicating his life to law enforcement. He knows that the system will work eventually, whether it's the D.A.'s office, or the GBI, or if it has to be a jury eventually. But it's going to be a rough couple of months here. YOUNG: On Wednesday night, hours after the charges were announced,
officers across Atlanta refused to respond to calls in three of the department's six zones. Others walked out, or called out, according to the police union.
The Atlanta Police Department denied claims of a walk-out, but acknowledged a higher than usual number of callouts.
CNN spoke to a handful of officers who asked not to be identified for fear of retribution. One telling CNN, We are one bullet away from dying and one mistake from an indictment. Another saying the morale is the lowest it's been in 18 years. This is because of the mayor and the D.A.
MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D), ATLANTA: Across the country, morale is down with police departments, and I think ours is down tenfold.
YOUNG: Despite this, Atlanta's mayor says the city has shown its commitment to the officers through a pay raise and bonuses.
BOTTOMS: This has been a very tough few weeks in Atlanta.
YOUNG: In a newly-released interview, filmed four months before his death, we're hearing from Rayshard Brooks in his own words, the challenges he faced after being released from jail. He had no money, in need of a job, and had a mountain of debt.
BROOKS: We can't get time back, but we can make up for it. I'm not the type of person to give up.
YOUNG: Months before his death, he talked about his struggle with a previous arrest, where he pleaded guilty because of a public defender told him he could get 10 years behind bars.
BROOKS: It hardened me, at a point. You know, to like, hey, you know, I have to have my -- my guard up, because the world is cruel. You know, it took me to seeing different things, you know, in the system, you know, just -- just makes you hardened, to a point.
HOLMES: That was CNN's Ryan Young reporting there.
Rayshard Brooks's funeral is going to be held, by the way, on June 23 at Atlanta's historical Ebenezer Baptist Church.
The U.S. House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, has ordered the removal of four portraits of former House speakers who once served in the Confederacy. The pictures were removed from the walls outside the House chamber on Thursday afternoon.
They include one Confederate army serviceman and three others who held high civilian office in the Confederacy. Mrs. Pelosi said she wasn't aware of their service until recently. Now, that move by the House speaker came on the eve of Juneteenth,
which is on Friday. It is the oldest known celebration of the end of slavery in the U.S.
Now, demonstrations against police brutality and racial injustice are set to take place across the country later in the day. So what exactly is Juneteenth?
Well, on January the 1st of 1863, President Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation became official. But there weren't enough Union troops in Texas to enforce it.
So it wasn't until more than two months later, June 19 of 1865, that Union soldiers landed in Galveston to announce the war had ended and slaves were free.
When we come back, the bombshell book. What one of Donald Trump's closest advisers says about a secret conversation between the leaders of the U.S. and China.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
HOLMES: And welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes.
The Trump administration firing back at former national security adviser John Bolton. Just a short time ago, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Bolton told lies and half truths about President Trump in his new book.
Pompeo said in a statement, quote, "It is both sad and dangerous that John Bolton's final public rule is that of a traitor who damaged America by violating his sacred trust with its people."
Now, Bolton, for his part, says the administration is trying to censor him from sharing, quote, "embarrassing facts" about President Trump in an election year.
Bolton's book about his time in the Trump administration contains many allegations of improper and incompetent actions by the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: I don't think he's fit for office. I don't think he has the competence to carry out the job.
There really isn't any guiding principle that I was able to discern, other than what's good for Donald Trump's reelection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Several passages in Bolton's book talk about President Trump's relationship with China's Xi Jinping.
CNN's Steven Jiang joins us now from Beijing with more on that.
Extraordinary claims by Bolton, including that Donald Trump asked President Xi to help him win the next election. Any reaction there?
STEVEN JIANG, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: Well, Michael, this story has become so sensitive here. Every time we talk about it here on CNN, Chinese government censors strike.
So we've been talking about this book quite a lot in the past 24 hours, and CNN viewers here in China have been staring at a black screen quite a lot, as well.
I actually asked China for their reaction to this claim that Mr. Trump sought Mr. Xi's help in getting reelected by asking him to have China buy more U.S. agricultural products because of the importance of Midwestern farmers in his reelection bid.
A foreign ministry spokesman simply said China always upholds the principle of non-interference, and China has no intention and will not interfere in U.S. internal affairs and elections.
But even that simple exchange between me and him got scrubbed from the ministry's transcript of the daily press briefing. So this is really a huge taboo here in China.
Which is probably not surprising, because they simply do not want to have their leader and their government to be associated with this growing scandal in Washington.
And also, the Chinese government is extremely sensitive about being accused of interfering into other country's affairs. Because that's something they often accuses -- often accuse the U.S. of doing, especially here in China.
And also remember, a few months after that alleged conversation took place, the two governments actually signed a so-called phase one trade deal, which does include huge commitments from the Chinese government to buy huge amounts of American agricultural products. So if there was any quid pro quo going on, Michael, they simply do not want to talk about it -- Michael.
HOLMES: Yes. And I'm sure, as you say, we -- our signal is blacked out in China right now, because we are having this conversation.
You know, it wasn't just the getting reelected -- help me get reelected part. Also, that Donald Trump essentially gave the green light to China's so-called reeducation camps for Uyghur Muslims. That is a very sensitive issue in China, one imagines. I bet you're not going to get any comment on that.
JIANG: That's right. I actually asked him about -- on this issue, as well. That spokesman simply said, our position on Xinjiang is very clear, and the U.S. clearly understands where we come from. But incidentally, though, the day these extras got leaked to U.S.
media, Mr. Trump actually signed into law the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act, which is aimed at punishing China for its abuses against the Muslims and Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities in Xinjiang.
That move, actually, has enraged China, with officials here calling on the U.S. to correct its mistakes or face unspecified consequences.
But I think the main takeaway from this book, if what Mr. Bolton wrote is true, is that Mr. Trump's China policy, just like so many other things he does, is not based on any grand philosophy or strategy. It's really based on him and his reelection.
Now, that, of course, according to man adults, is very unsettling at a time when relationships between the two countries is getting so contentious on so many fronts. And Mr. Trump's latest treat (ph) about China, Michael, is that a complete decoupling from China is a U.S. policy option -- Michael.
HOLMES: Yes. So many words. Steven Jiang in Beijing, appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Joining me now from New York, CNN national security analyst Samantha Vinograd.
Great to see you, as always. I wanted to start off, though, this extraordinary statement by the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, accusing John Bolton of being a traitor. What did you make of that?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, unfortunately, Secretary of State Pompeo is hardly a reliable source when it comes to the realities of the Trump presidency.
In his official statement, from the State Department and the tweets that he's issued about the books, subsequent to that statement, he accuses John Bolton of lying.
Unfortunately, Secretary of State Pompeo has repeatedly proven himself to be a propagandist for the president. So he is not a reliable source in terms of what happened or did not happen.
And we should expect to see more of these defensive tweets and rhetoric from members of Trump's cabinet. He's doing damage control right now. But unfortunately, again, no one that directly serves with him is credible when it comes to what did or did not happen under the president's presidency.
HOLMES: It just seems to be a real sort of fracturing going on. I mean, it's hard to know the most concerning aspects of the Bolton book when it comes to foreign policy, you know, asking China for election help. That the president may have signed off on concentration camps in China for Uyghur Muslims; defending the Saudis over the killing of a journalist because of his own daughter's email scandal, to deflect from that. What were the headlines to you? VINOGRAD: Well, Michael, it's worth noting that the excerpts
themselves aren't just disturbing. It's also disturbing that we have every reason to think that these excerpts are true based upon the president's track record today.
This wouldn't be the first time that President Trump solicited foreign election interference. Think back to just last year when he said he was open to receiving dirt on a political opponent from a foreign individual.
This wouldn't be the first time that the president threw humanitarian rights under the bus. This is just the latest episode in the president's terrifying track record when it comes to national security.
So I find his comments, vis-a-vis China, deeply disturbing. Again, soliciting a foreign campaign contribution from a rival country.
His -- the fact that he is allegedly pro-concentration camps is deeply disturbing to me. I'm the daughter of a Holocaust survivor.
But we have to look at the big picture here, which is the president has, throughout the four years of his presidency, engaged in this kind of dangerous behavior and, frankly, prioritized his own political needs above those of our country.
And as we head into the 2020 election, the reality that voters now have to decide, because Congress is not going to step in and try to either investigate these allegations or hold the president accountable, is if they are comfortable voting for a president who claims to be, for example, tough on China but was so tough on China that he asked them to support his presidency.
That's a question that voters now need to decide, because Republicans, frankly, have given the president a free pass on all of these issues and more.
HOLMES: Which is extraordinary. I mean, the whole issue is fraught on a number of levels.
I mean, you wrote something. You've been tweeting about it, as well. But you wrote this. Truthful or otherwise, the book is, quote, "harmful to our national security in the sense that the whole world gets unique insights into how our government is functioning (or not), and in this case, they are seeing all the massive meltdown Trump is having over the book."
What damage is done to U.S. standing as a result of this sort of, I mean, just -- I don't know what to call it?
VINOGRAD: Tattletale tell-all, yes. I mean, the First Amendment is very important thing. But as a national security professional, I am aware that, when former officials write books like this, it does expose the innermost workings of our government.
It's not like, for example, Putin's national security advisers writing a tell-all about the inner workings of the Kremlin. When these kinds of books come out, the whole world gets insights into how our government is functioning.
In this case, the whole world is getting even more evidence that President Trump is not a credible leader, and what his priorities are, it's a major slam-dunk for countries like Russia, for Vladimir Putin, who want very public-facing content exposing the president as weak, dangerous, and frankly, incompetent.
HOLMES: I wanted to ask you, too, I mean, that you know, when it comes to Bolton's whole actions, the big bombshells -- China, Ukraine, Saudi, as we said, which were John Bolton's areas of responsibility. He knew what was going on in real time.
Should he now be called to testify before Congress? Although many say he should have done that during the impeachment process. Should he be called now?
VINOGRAD: Well, he certainly should be, but he won't be, because Republicans have said that he's a liar and that they do not want to hear any evidence that could incriminate the president.
But you know, when it comes to John Bolton, if this is intended to be his redemption song of sorts, it is way off-tune. Not only was he in the room and around when the president was engaging in this behavior, Michael, he was directly responsible for the areas that we're discussing. For China, for Russia, for election security.
And the fact is, he stuck around.
So certainly, he has a wealth of information when it comes to the president's -- the president's potential unethical behavior, abuses of power and perhaps more.
But John Bolton is doing damage to himself with every revelation that's been dripping out, because he's stuck around, and he was, frankly, complicit in these activities, because he was directly charged with our nation's national security and advising the president on these matters.
HOLMES: I think -- one of the things -- I want to finish up on this, too, because one of the things that, you know, people have been angry at John Bolton, because he knew all this. He could have given evidence at the impeachment.
Republicans, so far, predictably, brushing it all off. You know, haven't read the book and all of that sort of stuff.
Would they have known these allegations when they voted no on impeachment, and also, when crucially, they said, We don't need to hear from John Bolton. We've heard enough. And then all this comes out.
VINOGRAD: Republicans have been playing the ignorance is bliss card ever since the impeachment trial started. They have worn blindfolds and earmuffs when it comes to exposing themselves to content that could put the president in an unflattering light or lead to his removal from office or just basic statements of condemnation by members of his own party.
So the fact that they didn't know about these allegations during the impeachment trial was because they chose not to. That's continued ever since the impeachment trial ended.
And we are likely going to see that continuing over the course of the summer. So they will say that they haven't read the book. They will discount everything that John Bolton says.
And we've heard Democrats already say that they want to know more about Bolton's allegations. But Michael, we should just expect, again, Republicans to play the ignorance is bliss card and refuse to do their, frankly, constitutional duty to investigate whether these allegations are, in fact, true.
And that really just makes the accountability card something that voters can play in 2020, because congressional Republicans are blocking any action out of our Congress.
HOLMES: Yes. As always, with so many Donald Trump fires, will it amount for -- to anything is always the question.
Samantha Vinograd, we'll leave it there. Thank you. It's good to see you.
VINOGRAD: Thank you.
HOLMES: Well, President Trump also facing another rebuke, from the Supreme Court. In a 5-4 ruling, justices blocked the Trump administration from ending the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, known as DACA. It protects hundreds of thousands of immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally as children, also known as DREAMers. It protects them from deportation.
Now, it is the second time in a week the court has ruled against the president. On Monday, the court ruling gay, lesbian and transgendered employees are protected from discrimination based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.
Some in Venice can't wait for tourists to come back. Others, not so much. Why the floating city might never go back to what it was before the pandemic. We'll have that after the break.
HOLMES: Welcome back.
If the U.S. economy is starting to recover, there's not a lot of evidence on that. On the job market, another one and a half million Americans filed a new unemployment claim in the last week. That is almost the same number of claims as the week before. There have now been a staggering 45 million people file for unemployment since the middle of March.
Joining me now in Cambridge, Massachusetts, global economist Meghan Greene. She is a senior fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School of Business.
Always a pleasure. Good to see you, Meghan.
Wanted to start -- These new job numbers and what they mean for any sort of COVID economic recovery. I mean, you had one million and a half workers filed for unemployment for the first time. What are your thoughts about whether these job losses and all of what we're seeing could last longer than first hoped?
MEGHAN GREEN, GLOBAL ECONOMIST: Yes, I think so many of us are so used to these huge numbers with jobless claims that a lot of people have said, Oh, one and a half million, that's less than we've had.
But it's worth pointing out that, if you add in everyone, all the gig workers who are under a pandemic unemployment insurance, you get to 2.2 million. And that's more than double the worst that we had during the global financial crisis. In fact, we've had more than double that worse during a financial crisis for three months straight.
So that's pretty bad. I think the decline is smaller than we would have expected, particularly given the great May jobs report. And it just suggests that there's more rigidity in the labor market than we thought there was. It might take longer to get people back into the workforce.
And I think it will be easier to get the first 20 percent of people back into work than it will be to get the last 20 percent back into work. So this is supposed to be the easy part, and it's taking longer than we expect.
HOLMES: That's exactly going to be my next question. I mean, there's been a lot of talk, even the president, about you know, so-called V- shaped recovery. But how many of those lost jobs might be lost forever?
GREENE: Look, a whole bunch of industries just aren't going to come back the same way that they were before. All the high-touch industries are going to take a really long time to come back. A bunch of companies aren't going to come back.
So we're going to need to see a whole scale restructuring of some industries, some firms, and then alongside that, we're going to have to see some retraining for workers so that they can switch areas.
And that's a long, hard slog. So I think that it's going to take a lot longer than many people had feared.
And I would say a lot of the data has shown a real bounce off the bottom. We have seen, if we look at all the alternative data, the high-frequency stuff, we've seen that the bottom is probably behind us for the most part.
So we are getting a bounce immediately, but we should have always expected that. And we shouldn't extrapolate that into the future. We're getting a bounce off of really bad, really low levels. But we can't expect that bounce to continue at the same pace throughout this recovery.
HOLMES: Yes, when states reopen the way they did, a lot of those jobs were going to bounce back immediately. But as you point out, I mean, it's about the amount of them, the sustainability, length of time.
The Fed chair, Jerome Powell, he gave this testimony that dealt with inequality. And that is literally an issue you're writing a book about. What was your take on what he said?
GREENE: Yes, I mean, I think it's great that Jay Powell waded into this area, given how huge it is right now. It's not really the Fed's mandate to worry about inequality, but of course, the Fed has a role to play in it.
And I think that this entire crisis is just making the income and wealth inequality issue that we have in the U.S. much worse.
When you look at the labor force which is partly the Fed's mandate, it's, you know, the poorest people who were the last into the labor market right before this pandemic. And they've been the first ones out of it, as well. So it's those hourly service workers, who are low-wage workers who have been hit the hardest, and immediately. And it's going to take a while for them to come back into the work force.
And then I think there are a bunch of structural drivers that are -- that are really driving inequality forward, like market concentration. Superstar firms have taken over a lot of industries, including tech and health care, which are two industries doing pretty well our of this crisis.
And if you have superstar firms, that makes it hard for workers to negotiate for higher wages with them, because they're -- they just don't have many options if they want to change employers.
So that also exacerbates income and wealth inequality. These things are all being accelerated by the crisis. And I think Jay Powell is right to note that.
But I think he's also right to say, you know, what, Congress? Over to you, actually. You guys are the ones who have the power to do something about this. It's not really within the Fed's mandate.
HOLMES: Just finally, I mean, what do you see to come? You know, there's a lot of people worried that there could be a spike in evictions as protections for renters go away. That $600 weekly supplement for unemployed workers, that's going to end by August. Unemployment benefits could begin got expire for workers after the summer in some states.
[00:50:09] What -- what's your overall level of -- I don't want to use the word "optimism," but what -- how are you feeling looking down the road?
GREENE: Look, I think we'll end up getting more fiscal stimulus to support some workers and businesses. If we don't get funding for state and local governments, we will absolutely go into another recession. I think that's really clear, because states have balanced budgets, unlike the federal government. And their budgets are due in a couple of weeks.
And so they're going to have to start laying people off and cutting costs at a time when, you know, they're on the front lines of trying to get money and support people who are vulnerable in this crisis.
So we need that, and I think we also need to extend some of these unemployment benefits. Maybe not exactly the same $600 dollar a week, but some form of it, or else I think we'll also see retrenchment.
And again, the PPP loans have already been extended a bit for small businesses. So that's already a good sign.
The worry is that you are starting to hear language about, you know, our deficit's pretty big, our debt burden's getting high. Maybe we should wait and see if we really need the money.
And that's an absolute mistake. I think the risk of not doing enough is much higher than the risk of doing too much in this case.
GREENE: In that we shouldn't worry about how to deal with this right now when borrowing costs are incredibly low and the Fed promises they will be for the foreseeable future.
HOLMES: Yes, good point. Meghan Green, a pleasure, as always. Thanks so much for breaking it down for us.
GREENE: Thanks for having me.
HOLMES: Quick break. When we come back on CNN NEWSROOM, tributes pouring in after the passing of a British entertainment icon. We'll have more on the legacy of Vera Lynn when we come back.
HOLMES: Venice, a city that so many people visit each year, except during a pandemic. There are businesses that are struggling, as you can imagine, but some residents are now seeing an opportunity to save their city before it's too late.
CNN's Ben Wedeman takes a closer look.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The tourists, a few of them, are back in Venice's Piazza San Marco. Many of the hotels and shops are still shuttered. The Gondolieri idle. Cafes host more seagulls than clients.
"We find it fabulous," says Marie-Caroline Croset from France. "There are no waits at the museums. The churches are all open. You can take your time."
But the economy of Venice, highly dependent upon tourism, cannot wait. Around 30 million visitors flocked to the city last year.
Venice before coronavirus teamed with tourists. And this is now.
This shop has been in Mario's family for generations.
"It couldn't be worse than this," he says. "We reopened May 23, and since then, we've made around 100 euro." That's just over $110 in almost a month.
(on camera): Residents have become accustomed to life without the madding crowds. The prospect of an eventual return to a semblance of normalcy is bittersweet.
(voice-over): Veteran tour guide Caterina Sopradassi misses the tourists, but savored the silver lining.
CATERINA SOPRADASSI, TOUR GUIDE: It's really sad. In a certain way, it's also really marvelous, because we can enjoy our city. We hope, we hope, we are restarting little by little, step-by-step.
Visitors to the sites must have their temperatures checked, wear masks inside, and maintain social distance.
With the rebirth of tourism, many residents hope the city won't be destroyed in the process.
Environmental scientist Jane Da Mosto warns that Venice, already threatened by rising waters, can ill afford a renewed flood of tourists.
JANE DA MOSTO, ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST: It's not just a question of the impact of 30 million people on a very fragile set of islands in the middle of a delicate lagoon system. It's also a question of should all those people be traveling across the world, across the country, for such short holidays.
WEDEMAN: The government of Venice is considering a city tax to try to hold back the deluge of spendthrift day trippers.
Lorenza Lain manages a hotel in a 500-year-old palazzo.
LORENZA LAIN, HOTEL MANAGER: You must be very respectful, I think, of all the guests coming into Venice, but also the people that come to Venice should be educated to respect the city.
WEDEMAN: A city navigating between the need to make a living and preserving a unique way of life. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Venice.
HOLMES: We're going to leave you now with the sad passing of a British icon.
Singer Dame Vera Lynn died on Thursday at the age of 103. The music lifted Britons' spirits in the darkest days of World War II, best remembered for saying one of the most famous ballads of the era, "We'll Meet Again."
(MUSIC: "WE'LL MEET AGAIN")