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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

Europe Considers Ban on U.S. Travelers; Mandatory Quarantine For Some Out-of-State Visitors?. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired June 24, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[16:30:02]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Things are really heading in the wrong direction. Nobody asked the president about that, though.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I was surprised. I mean, that is the worldwide issue, obviously.

And no one asked about the potential travel ban from the United States to the E.U. either, something that has not been finalized, but may be out there by July.

But you're right. I mean, the numbers are going in the wrong direction. If we can show this, we took some time to actually tabulate when were sort of these peaks along the way, if you start looking at what happened in March and April, and then sort of look at how the numbers have changed.

Take a look there, Jake. So, beginning of April time frame, 34 -- and then 36,000 people being diagnosed in the single day, that was the peak. Look where we are now, 34,720. The lowest was on June 1, and we have had a staggering sort of uptick since then, as you can tell from the numbers there. The numbers are pretty clear.

The concern is, you can tell, for the first peak, where did we start? We started from basically very low, zero numbers end of February and March. And now we're starting from 17,000 or 20,000 or so. And we're heading back up.

This is the concern. In several places around the country, when we went into stay-at-home sort of mode, Jake, middle of March, there were fewer than 5,000 people in this country had been infected and fewer than 80 people who had died.

So you're starting from a much higher sort of number of people infected, and much more virus is out there, as a result, people starting to become more mobile, there's a huge concern here, Jake, in many places around the country.

I don't think there's any place you could point to and say they're totally free and clear right now.

TAPPER: And let me bring Abby back, Abby Phillip. President Trump has voted by mail. His press secretary has voted by

mail. His vice president has voted by mail. But in the context of this election, the president also continues to rail against people who want to have increased vote by mail, especially in the middle of a pandemic. He's perpetuating numerous conspiracy theories about how foreign powers are going to commit voter fraud.

Absolutely no evidence for that. He's even gone so far as to claim that the November election will be the most corrupt in American history. Again, no evidence for any of this.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is completely devoid of any facts here.

And it's one of those things with President Trump where he's become fixated on this idea that vote by mail is bad for him politically, personally. This is directly tied to his feeling that this election could come down to who votes and whether or not more people who are inclined to vote for Democrats are allowed to vote.

And it really has nothing to do with any reality of voter fraud or any concerns among many Republicans all across the country about whether or not vote by mail is actually bad for them.

I have spoken to so many Republicans from state -- secretaries of state to Republican operatives, allies of the president, who say, it is not the right fight to be fighting about vote by mail, because vote by mail can be good for Republicans. It has been over the years. We saw it just a few months ago in California.

But when the president talks about this, he's been very clear in the last few days that he thinks that this could be something that affects him negatively in November, whether that is true or not, and he's fighting tooth and nail in the courts, backed by the Republican National Committee, to stop it.

But in the process, it's undermining the elections process. I think that it is frustrating, frankly, to the Republican officials who are running elections at the state level who I have spoken to who are trying to do their very best to put together a fair election to have the president undermining it almost every single day, talking about fraud that simply does not exist.

TAPPER: Yes, and, I mean, the context here, of course, is that President Trump, according to polls, trails behind Joe Biden by double digits in some polls.

But the one area where he is strong is that his voters seem more enthusiastic about voting for him than Joe Biden's voters are enthusiastic by voting for him, although they're enthusiastic to vote against Donald Trump.

The easier it is for Joe Biden voters to vote will be the worse for President Trump. I think that's an important context.

Sanjay, let me ask you. The president also said there would soon be, in his words, a beautiful surprise when it comes to a vaccine. Do you know anything about what he's talking about there?

GUPTA: No.

I mean, we have been following the vaccine trials very closely. There are a few that have been progressing very well. We heard quite a bit yesterday on the hearings about what the timetable could potentially be like. Maybe by the end of the year, early next year, there could be a vaccine, which is in the process of finishing manufacturing, hopefully getting some trial results that are favorable at that point.

[16:35:18]

So, we're in June. I don't know what the upcoming beautiful surprise would be, unless he's talking about some trial results, which he's had access to from Operation Warp Speed.

One thing I do want to point out, Jake -- and this will be an issue that comes up, I think, a few -- over and over again over the next couple months. We have not seen a lot of data about these vaccines. We, of course, hear what Dr. Anthony Fauci has said, who has struck an optimistic tone about this.

But I -- as I have gone back to our reporting, there isn't a lot of peer-reviewed published data on where these vaccine trials really stand. We saw some results about the fact that eight patients formed neutralizing antibodies. We have other reports about animal studies.

There was one peer-reviewed report that came out of China. But it strikes me, in middle of June, end of June now, that we still don't have data that we can look at, that scientists, journalists, whoever, can independently review at that point.

We're going to need that, Jake, before we -- before I can give you a better answer in terms of how promising or optimistic this all is.

TAPPER: All right, Abby Phillip and Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

California just shattered its record of coronavirus cases, new ones, more than 7,000 cases reported in a single day. In Florida, a similar story, more than 5,500 reported in one day. Arizona has a record 88 percent of its hospital intensive care unit beds full. And a public health official in Arizona warns that hospitals could hit capacity around the Fourth of July.

As CNN's Erica Hill reports, the surge is so bad, now it's New York state, the former coronavirus epicenter in the world, joining with New Jersey and Connecticut to stop people from other hot spots in the United States from coming in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): California, the first state to issue a stay-at-home order, shattering a daily high set only two days ago, adding more than 7,000 new cases on Tuesday.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): It is our behaviors that are leading to these numbers, and we are putting people's lives at risk.

HILL (voice-over): COVID-related hospitalizations and ICU admissions also at an all-time high, the numbers in Arizona, Florida and Texas also surging.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: It's not just the increase in the number of cases. It's the slope, the way it's accelerating. It's almost vertical.

HILL: One South Florida health system seeing a more than 100 percent increase in the number of COVID-19 patients in the last two weeks.

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): We're not where we need to be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you don't like wearing a mask, you're not going to like wearing a ventilator.

HILL: As of Tuesday, just 12 percent of Arizona's ICU beds were available.

WILL HUMBLE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ARIZONA PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION: We're going to go onto surge capacity mode probably by Fourth of July, so that -- so, the most urgent thing, I think, is to get the hospital systems ready.

HILL: Nationwide, more than half of us state's reporting an increase in new cases over the past week.

More states and cities around the country are now requiring face coverings, as experts warn we may need more drastic measures.

HOTEZ: If it were up to me, we would do exactly what we did towards the end of March, which is a full -- implement a full lockdown and social distancing.

HILL: New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, where cases are trending down, want to keep it that way.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): People coming in from states that have a high infection rate must quarantine for 14 days.

HILL: As of today, nine states subject to that new order, which comes with hefty fines starting at $2,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time for personal responsibility.

HILL: The New York City Marathon, which attracts more than 50,000 runners and nearly a million spectators every fall, canceled over coronavirus fears.

Major League Baseball, however, will take the field this summer, 60 games starting in late July. Coinciding with that news, more positive cases among the Phillies and reports of infection for the Rockies, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HILL: And, as we take a look at what's happening with masks around the country, just a short time ago, the governor of North Carolina instituting a mask policy in that state.

Governor Ron DeSantis, asked again about masks in Florida, he said a statewide measure didn't really make sense. He does encourage people to wear masks, but he says it could be problematic across the state because enforcement would be tough.

Meantime, Jake, we just got a new update from that IHME model we all see a lot, which is now predicting about 180,000 deaths by October 1. It's important to note that's down a little bit from their last prediction about 10 days ago.

But if 95 percent of Americans started to wear masks, that number could drop to -- October 1 -- that estimate would be about 146,000 deaths, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Erica, I'm old enough to remember when the governor of Rhode Island months ago said that New Yorkers entering the state of Rhode Island would be stopped and fined.

[16:40:07]

HILL: Yes.

TAPPER: And New York Governor Cuomo was furious. He called it unconstitutional.

It's not the first time Governor Cuomo has contradicted himself in this whole crisis. But it's interesting that he's now threatening to do the same thing to people from other hot spots coming into New York.

HILL: He threatened to sue, you may recall. That was back at the end of March.

The governor of Rhode Island, Gina Raimondo, was actually asked today at a press conference about this decision for the quarantine measure for the tristate area. She joked at first, she's happy he's come around to her way of thinking, but she did say very seriously she thinks it's a good idea. She's actually looking at something similar for Rhode Island.

And she says it may be more stringent, looking specifically at the counties that people are coming from. But she says she's not quite ready to announce anything yet, Jake.

TAPPER: Difficult to put in effect, given the fact that you're allowed to, like, cross borders of other states in the United States.

Erica Hill in New York, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Florida's hardest-hit county is seeing a surge of younger, less sick coronavirus patients. One hospital group in Miami-Dade reported a 101 percent increase in just the past 15 days of COVID-19 patients admitted to their hospitals. Joining us now, Dr. Richard Besser, the former acting director of the

CDC.

Dr. Besser, good to see you, as always.

So, Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Gimenez says that the rising numbers are evidence that younger residents are going out to restaurants and other businesses, not wearing masks, not avoiding crowds. What should that mayor or Governor DeSantis do to stop this huge spike going on in Florida in specific counties?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Yes, I mean, Jake, the big challenge is that across the nation, starting at the top, we're getting mixed messages.

There's not a single public health leader who isn't taking this seriously, who doesn't recognize that we're in the early days, and that the actions we take now will determine whether that model that Erica Hill was talking about proves true.

It's not a crystal ball. If we're able to implement the measures that public health has been pushing, this road map for opening the economy in a sustainable way, we can affect that.

So what you want to see is the governor, the mayor modeling the behavior and wearing masks and telling people they need to social distance, they need to keep six feet apart, and they need to stay home if they're sick.

Thankfully, young people are going to do well with this. Most of them, not all, but most will do well, but many live with elderly people or in contact with other people. And that's how disease spreads through communities, if we're not all taking this seriously.

TAPPER: So, hospitalizations in Miami-Dade County are up nearly 25 percent in just two weeks. The percent of positive test results hit 26 percent, a record high. What do these numbers tell you?

BESSER: Well, the 26 percent positivity, what that tells you is that, if they were really doing as much testing as they should, they would find a lot more cases.

What you're seeing across the nation is the positivity rate. So you test 100 people, how many are positive, that's dropping. That's dropping dramatically across the nation. Indeed, in many places, in New Jersey, where I am, it's less than 3 percent.

If you're at the 20 percent, that means that there's a lot of people out there with milder infection that you're not picking up. And you have got a real problem on your hands. You have got to really step up the measures. you have to step up in terms of reducing the exposure people have.

You have to get away from these measures -- these messages of, hey, everybody, it's OK, go back to work and enjoy your social life. They're dealing with a problem that will increase exponentially. TAPPER: So, the hospitalization data also paints a picture of who is

getting infected. In the Jackson Health System in Miami, new infections were highest among the county's lower-income communities, and many of the younger patients were going to the hospital for treatment ,not for intensive care.

What do you expect to see in a few weeks in Miami, Miami-Dade, based on what we're seeing now?

BESSER: Well, there are a couple things.

If you look at who's been hit hardest throughout this pandemic, every community has been hit, but people of color have been hit the hardest, higher rates of people of color who have to work. They don't have the luxury of saying, hey, I'm going to work remotely.

So you have a lot of young people who are circulating, aren't wearing masks. They're exposing workers. They're putting people at risk who are out there trying to earn some income to put food on the table and to pay the rent.

We're coming into the summer, where the extended unemployment benefits are expiring, where protections for eviction and foreclosure are expiring. And so people are going to be working. And it is a dangerous situation when you have these increasing rates of disease, because hospitalizations lag greatly behind infections.

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We're seeing massive increases in the number of cases. It'll be a couple weeks before the people they're exposed to develop symptoms, and then another week for those symptoms to become severe and people to be hospitalized, and then a couple weeks before someone will either recover or succumb to the illness.

So it's -- you have to act when you see the earliest signs, or it's really late and then you're playing a lot of catchup.

TAPPER: Florida is just one of several states that are seeing a rising number of coronavirus cases. There's California, Texas, Arizona, and Georgia among the top five.

Some of those states were criticized, the governors were, for opening up early, such as Georgia Governor Kemp, Texas Governor Abbott.

California, we should point out, which is also still having serious problems, Governor Newsom and the other politicians that have been have been pretty aggressive from the beginning.

Today, in California, the state reported a record high, 7,000 new cases in one day. So what's going wrong in California?

BESSER: Well, one of the challenges, Jake, is that we have yet to see a state that's been able to get that drop, control it, and see massive drops, like we saw in California, we're seeing in New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, we have yet to see whether any of them can transition from everyone under lockdown to rapidly identifying cases, doing contact tracing, and then getting everyone into isolation and quarantine.

That's the model that a lot of other countries have used successfully. But if we're not able to do that, and transition to that model, then the alternative is, you open up the economy gradually and, as numbers start to go up, you have to backtrack and slow things down again.

But I'd like to see an effective way of people engaging with communities, making sure that those who are infected are willing to share their contacts, the contacts are able to isolate.

But for a lot of people, telling someone that they have had contact with someone with coronavirus and they need to stay in quarantine for 14 days means they're going to lose their job. And for them, the choice is, well, I'm going to risk it. Maybe I won't get sick. Maybe I won't infect somebody else, because the alternative is being under quarantine, losing my job, maybe being evicted.

We haven't built the systems to make sure that we can make this transition successfully.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Richard Besser, always great to have you on. Thank you so much for your expertise.

Turning now to our national lead, Senate Democrats blocked debate on the Republicans policing reform bill today drafted by Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina. Democrats called the bill an inadequate response to police brutality and racial injustice.

The legislation, which Democratic Senators Joe Manchin and Doug Jones, as well as independent Senator Angus King voted in favor of opening up for debate, along with all the Republicans, emphasized state level reforms and limiting use of choke holds, while the Democratic plan called for national mandates on matters, such as requiring officer body cams and outright banning choke holds.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi went as far as to suggest Republicans are trying to get away with the murder of George Floyd with their proposed bill.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): For something to happen, they're going to have to face the realities of police brutality, the reality of the need for justice in policing.

So far, they were trying to get away with murder, actually, the murder of George Floyd.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell called the remark jaw- dropping, accusing Democrats of wavering on their initial requirements for the bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Two weeks ago, it was implied the Senate would have blood on our hands if we didn't take up police reform. Now Democrats say Senator Scott and 48 other senators have blood on our hands because we are trying to take up police reform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: When asked if she wanted to apologize for her remarks, Speaker Pelosi said, "Absolutely, positively not."

Joining me now to discuss this issue is the author of the new book "Five Days: The Fiery Reckoning of an American City," which looks into the Freddie Gray riots in Baltimore. He's the CEO of the Robin Hood Foundation, Wes Moore.

Wes, thanks so much for joining us.

I'm wondering what you think about the Senate Democrats' decision, most of them, to block debate on the Republican policing legislation. They say it's not comprehensive enough. It doesn't meet the moment. Others say some reform is better than none. What do you think?

WES MOORE, CEO, ROBIN HOOD FOUNDATION: I think we need to come up with a form that is actually meaningful and doesn't just address the situations and circumstances that we have seen in recent history, but also address the things that we have long known have been challenges when it comes to police reform, when we're coming up with bills that are actually looking at this.

We understand that state and local jurisdiction has a lot of authority when it comes to policing. But the federal government has a role. And the bill has to come up with a way of being able to address the role that the federal government has.

[16:50:07]

So, for example, a bill that does not address qualified immunity and the qualified immunity doctrine that shields officers from accountability, a bill that is looking at and essentially incentivizing this idea of banning choke holds, and not necessarily requiring it.

This is a very serious time. We have now had a chance, because of what happened to Mr. Floyd, literally seeing a homicide on camera, and so many of the reforms that have to be in place that we have been talking about for a very long time, this becomes a moment to address them properly. And, frankly, this bill did not do that.

TAPPER: It does feel like we're in a moment, though, nationally, even if Congress is failing to pass anything yet on the federal level, at least as of now.

We are seeing changes being made at the state level, city level, in businesses. At least 12 states are either banning or severely restricting the use of choke holds. Pepsi, as one example, has pledged to add 100 black employees to executive positions.

Do you think addressing racial injustice at the state and corporate levels be the way forward? And will that be enough?

MOORE: Yes, I think what this moment is calling for all of us to do is look at what is all of our collective responsibilities to be able to address this moment.

I mean, we're coming off of a situation where we have watched two crises come on our doorstep within a matter of months. One is -- was the crisis of coronavirus. The other was the unneeded reminder of inequitable policing.

But the truth is, those two things both have a similar focus and something in common, and that, at its core, is the issue of race. And so whether you're talking about a virus that disproportionately hit communities of color, both in terms of infection rate and also deaths, and also what we're seeing with policing. I think right now all of us, every single industry, is being called to say, what else can we do to be able to push back on these mechanisms that we see and understand the fact that racism is not an act?

Racism is a system. And it's a system that allows for a black college graduate to have the same earning power as a white high school dropout. That's a fact. That's data. It's a fact that allows a black woman with cancer with breast cancer to have a 42 percent mortality, a death rate higher than a white woman. That's a fact. That's data.

And so what this moment is calling for all of us to do is think about, in our own spaces, what are the things that we can actively do to identify the challenges that exist where race and racial inequities show themselves, and then be able to come up with creative and truly, truly hard ways of being able to attack this problem?

TAPPER: In your book, you write about how interactions with police shape the lives of black Americans.

You write -- quote -- "For many black Americans, their experience with criminal justice forecloses work, housing and other avenues that might lead to stability. The stigma and lifelong negative bias that result from even a fleeting encounter with the criminal justice system are absolutely life-changing."

So, if this is a systemic problem, as you see it, where do we begin? How do we change this?

MOORE: Well, I think we have to, well, first change what exactly it is we're asking law enforcement to do, because the things that change, the interactions -- it isn't even just the conviction.

It's simple interactions with law enforcement that can change trajectories. And we have data that reinforces that. And so I think we have to really start to pull back and understand, what is it that we're asking our law enforcement officers to do? How are we thinking about the funding mechanisms, the fact that, for every dollar, for example, in the NYPD, youth development gets 11 cents? What exactly are we requiring and thinking that we want for our law enforcement to be able to perform in our society? And then how do we have a larger societal rethink, conversation about how we can rethink all these assets (AUDIO GAP) people back no longer have to serve as barriers in (AUDIO GAP).

TAPPER: All right, Wes Moore, thank you so much. Good luck with your book. Really appreciate it.

New warning signs for President Trump today in our 2020 lead. Not only does a new national poll show Joe Biden with a double-digit lead over the president, but two candidates endorsed by President Trump lost their primary races last night.

As CNN's Boris Sanchez reports for us now, these struggles have led to some very familiar tactics from President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A rare seen today Vice President Mike Pence on Capitol Hill seen wearing a mask.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's an honor to have President Duda.

SANCHEZ: While his boss welcomed the first world leader to the White House since the pandemic started without wearing one.

President Trump, mired in a nationwide spike in coronavirus cases and widespread unrest over police brutality, is seeing his poll numbers slumping, 14 points behind Joe Biden in a new "New York Times"/Siena College survey of registered voters , with the former vice president strengthening his lead among women and non-white voters.

[16:55:15]

The poll only the latest to forecast Trump as an underdog in the 2020 fight. CNN and FOX polls released earlier this month both showing a double-digit lead for Biden. Last night, more bad news for Trump, his preferred candidates losing their primary battles.

Even after Trump demanded he be thrown out of the Republican Party, Congressman Thomas Massie gliding to victory in Kentucky's Fourth District. And despite calling on GOP voters to help drain the swamp by electing Lynda Bennett in North Carolina's 11th District, her 24-year- old opponent, Madison Cawthorn, thorn drubbing Bennett, almost certain to take White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows old seat in the fall, though Cawthorn maintains his victory was not a referendum on Trump.

And the two shared a call this morning.

MADISON CAWTHORN (R), NORTH CAROLINA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: He was talking about how amazing a victory was. He defined it as beautiful.

SANCHEZ: Facing these political obstacles, Trump has started retreating to his red meat rhetoric on the campaign trail, stopping for a photo-op at a section of border wall in Arizona Tuesday, before a speech to young supporters, in which he repeated his racist phrase for coronavirus and again spread false conspiracy theories about mail- in ballots.

TRUMP: The Democrats are also trying to rig the election by sending out tens of millions of mail-in ballots, using the China virus as the excuse for allowing people not to go to the polls.

(BOOING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Our to Boris Sanchez for that report.

In our world lead, President Trump continually points to shutting down air travel for some people coming from China and then people coming from the E.U. and other places as one of the main ways that he was trying to stop coronavirus from coming to the United States.

But now it's American travelers who may be banned, because the European Union is debating blocking any visitors from countries with severe coronavirus outbreaks.

And, as CNN's Nic Robertson reports, that includes us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We have been working with countries all across the world, including our friends in Europe.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Secretary of State Mike Pompeo with his first public reaction to Europe's plan to possibly ban Americans from traveling there because of coronavirus.

POMPEO: We certainly don't want to reopen in a way that jeopardizes the United States from people traveling here. And we certainly don't want to cause problems anyplace else.

ROBERTSON: Last week, E.U. leaders sent a letter to Pompeo urging the U.S. to lift its ban on European travelers imposed in the early days of the pandemic.

TRUMP: We made a lifesaving move with early action on China. Now we must take the same action with Europe.

ROBERTSON: Now, with American infection spiking across the country, the E.U. is considering returning the favor, though an E.U. official tells CNN their decision isn't political.

Their plan, though, seems to hurt America the most.

YLVA JOHANSSON, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER: This criteria should be, of course, first epidemiological situation in the third country, second as the containment measures while traveling. ROBERTSON: And the third, reciprocity.

JOHANSSON: If we open up from traveling into the E.U., we expect that this country should open up for the traveling from our countries to that country.

ROBERTSON: Currently, the U.S. fails two out of those three criteria. E.U. citizens are banned from the U.S., so no reciprocity. Europe has less COVID-19 than the USA. E.U. countries have an average of 15 cases of COVID-19 per 100,000 people. The U.S. has 106.7 per 100,000 and is unlikely to meet the threshold currently set at 50 cases per 100,000.

E.U. officials are -- quote -- "working around the clock" ahead of a July 1 deadline, when the E.U.'s internal borders are mostly opened up. Agreeing among themselves is the biggest challenge. Consensus among the E.U.'s 27 nations is never easy.

Even so, it doesn't look good for Americans in what's become a growing political rift between the U.S. and European countries since Trump took office.

TRUMP: Europe has been treating us very badly.

ROBERTSON (on camera): But -- and there is a but here -- whatever lists and guidance the E.U. comes up with, it's still up to the 27 individual member nations on who they let into their country.

Take Portugal, for example, letting Brazilian travelers in at the moment, and the COVID-19 infection rate in Brazil is almost double that in the United States.

So, perhaps that dream of an American getaway in Europe this summer isn't really over just yet, Jake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: All right, our thanks to Nic Robertson for that reporting.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. Thanks for watching.

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