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Don Lemon Tonight

Coronavirus Cases Rising in 31 States; President Trump Failed to Control Spread of the Virus; United States Sees Highest Single Day Of New Covid-19 Cases, With 37,077 Cases Reported Today; NASCAR Releases Photo Of Noose That Was Found In Bubba Wallace's Garage Stall At Talladega Superspeedway; Silence Is Not An Option, Don Chats With His Mom About Their Complicated Relationship With Race In The Movies. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired June 25, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: -- 10 o'clock straight up that means it's time for CNN Tonight with D. Lemon.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I tell you what, Daniel Dale has his work cut out for him tonight.

CUOMO: The fact checker?

LEMON: Man. He's been talking all day. He's been doing some interviews that we're going to play for you, but it's every word -- not every word, but most of it -- man has a problem with the truth.

CUOMO: The man --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And that's the truth.

CUOMO: The man has a problem with the truth when the truth does not meet his self-interest. The trick is, of course, the easy part is exposing that he's wrong. The challenging part and the more important part for us right now is convincing people what's right.

LEMON: You're right on.

CUOMO: Because this pandemic is not tax policy where you can feel this way or that way. You need to wear a damn mask.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: And you have to take care of other people in your community and it's got to be about us because the help is not going to come from above.

LEMON: And you need to socially distance and you need to believe in science. So, there are no alternative facts or alternative science or alternative medicine when it comes to this. There are some things that work that have proven to work and there are some things that have proven not to work, including hydroxychloroquine and on and on and on.

CUOMO: Right. It's not a got you contest the way he and his fringe --

LEMON: No.

CUOMO: -- fellows want to play it. This is about not wanting to see people get sick.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: That's all. This isn't about gaining advantage. It's about seeing fewer people get hurt. Social distancing it's right. It's got to be like you and a check at any other place we've gone to eat.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: You stay away from it, you know, like it was a death sentence.

LEMON: That was smart, just like my grandmother. Every time she went somewhere, she forgot her wallet at home. She's a very smart lady.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I never see your wallet. I'll have to buy you one.

LEMON: But I said something -- I said something last night that I never thought I would say in my entire career, if you care about your health, don't believe the president. Can you imagine having to say that?

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: Yes, yes.

CUOMO: Right now, the reality is clear and you speak it well, my friend. I love to listen.

LEMON: Well, I've got a very interesting take that I need to get to right now and I shall see you soon.

CUOMO: Hot take. I love you, D. Lemon.

LEMON: Hot take. You -- more, I love you more. Thank you, buddy. I'll see you soon.

Well, everybody, I hope you're sitting down. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

And I've got a lot to tell you right now so have a seat. Pay attention. Because we are a country right now without a leader. We have a president -- we have someone who sits in the Oval Office, but we don't have a leader. You know the president loves the red states on his electorate map. Likes to pull it out. Likes to show people. Well, now it is the coronavirus map that is getting redder and redder and redder.

Look at it. And that's what American carnage looks like. Sixty percent of states reporting an increase in new cases. Let me tell you who it is. What states. Texas, Arizona -- some of the states. Nevada, New Mexico, Louisiana and North Carolina. Guess what they're doing? They're all pausing their reopening plans. Why? Fears of apocalyptic surges in Texas cities.

California reaching an all-time high in patients hospitalized with coronavirus. And the director of the CDC says coronavirus cases may be 10 times higher than reported.

In the face of all that, the president says this, this is at his Fox town hall just tonight that I was talking to Chris about, about the virus. He says this about the virus that's ravaging this country. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, we have more cases because we do the greatest testing. If we didn't do testing, we'd have no cases. Other countries, they don't test millions. So up to almost 30 million tests. So, when you do 30 million, you're going to have a kid with the sniffles and they'll say it's coronavirus, whatever you want to call it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A kid with the sniffles. That's what he said. A kid with the sniffles. You don't need me to tell you that that's not true, right, what he said there? This president has been dismissive of this deadly virus all along. But that one really takes the cake. That one takes the cake. Think about how many people have died. And the number of cases now. Places where they're surging.

And you can believe that he keeps blaming testing for the surge in these cases. I think we all understood and that we would still have cases of coronavirus if we didn't test. Guess what? We just wouldn't have any idea who was sick.

[22:05:01]

Testing ultimately keeps cases down. Because we can identify sick people and we can have them stay home. A child with the sniffles. Can understand that.

But speaking of the electoral map that I mentioned, there is bad news for the president in the latest Fox News poll in Florida. Here's what it shows. It shows the former Vice President Joe Biden is up nine points overall in Florida. Biden and Trump running even with men and seniors -- so I guess this is -- it's not -- it's no surprise here the president is sounding a little vulnerable tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The man can't speak. And he's going to be your president because some people don't love me, maybe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the president is sinking in the polls. The man can't speak. I wish we had the sound bites of him -- some of the things that he says that are unintelligible.

He is frightened because of the polls. The coronavirus is spreading. And his dangerous negligence is on full display. But all this president cares about is how things look, and by that, I mean how he looks.

Here he is at a ceremony at the Korean war veteran's memorial. This was this morning. No mask. No attempt to protect those elderly veterans at risk. Fellow Americans. The greatest generation.

And with red states beginning to decide that maybe masks are a good idea after all, one White House official telling CNN, quote, "he will never change on the mask." He doesn't want that picture. We knew that.

But here is the really shocking part. That official going on to say, and I'm quoting again, "he knows masks are important. But he doesn't want that image or to admit he is wrong." Doesn't want to admit he's wrong. That's sad. Joe Biden calling on the president to show some leadership in the midst of a deadly pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's like a child. Who can't believe this has happened to him? All his whining and self-pity. This pandemic didn't happen to him. It happened to all of us. And his job isn't to whine about it. His job is to do something about it. To lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Asked whether the president should encourage Americans to wear masks, here's what Senator Lindsey Graham says. Senator Lindsey Graham says, well, he's got his own view on whether or not to wear a mask. He should wear a mask. But my advice to people is that you are around strangers. Try to -- if you're around strangers, try to stay six feet away and wear a mask.

He sure does have his own view, and his view is wrong. It's shameful the way that they are enabling him. And I wonder if are they more scared of the president than they are of more than 122,000 Americans dying?

I want you to take a look at the vice president today. Look at your screen. Touring the Lordstown Motors plant in Ohio. Maskless. Didn't put on a mask until he stopped at a police station later.

There is absolutely no excuse for the vice president touring that plant without a mask, surrounded by people not wearing masks. Not with cases soaring across the south and the west, but let's face it, we know exactly why he didn't. It's all for an audience of one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Somehow sitting in the Oval Office behind that beautiful Resolute desk, the greatest Resolute desk, I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don't know, somehow, I don't see it for myself.

We really want to see it get back to normal, so when you have all of those thousands, tens of thousands of people going to your majors and going to golf tournaments, we want them to have that same experience and we don't want them to have to wear masks.

Well, I did wear -- I had one on before. I wore one in this back area, but I didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it. I had it in the back area.

Can you take it off because I cannot hear you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll just speak louder, sir.

TRUMP: OK. You want to be politically correct. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, I just want to wear the mask.

TRUMP: Go ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: More on that. We've got more on that. And we've got mews tonight on a story that we're staying on top of for you. NASCAR driver Bubba Wallace and the noose found in his garage at the Talladega Super Speedway. Make no mistake, that's what NASCAR is calling it. They're calling it a noose. Here's the photo they released. There it is right there. And here's what NASCAR president Steve Phelps said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:10:01]

STEVE PHELPS, PRESIDENT, NASCAR: As you can see from the photo, the noose was real. As was our concern for Bubba.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Looks like a noose to me. He went on to say this about NASCAR's investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHELPS: NASCAR conducted a thorough sweep of all the garage areas across where the tracks that we race. So, across those 29 tracks and 1,684 garage stalls, we found only 11 total that had a pull-down rope tied in a knot and only one noose, the one discovered on Sunday in Bubba Wallace's garage.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Only one noose. Across all the tracks NASCAR uses and all the garages at their tracks. What was Bubba Wallace supposed to think about that? Look at your screen. What does that look like to you? He said it on his show. He said it was a straight up noose. That's what he said. What do you think? You wonder why it was placed in that garage, a coincidence? I don't know, maybe. What do you think? A lot more on that tonight.

And I want to share something personal with you, OK. This is a conversation that I've had with my mom. Her name is Katherine Clark. About some of the movies that I grew up watching. Maybe you did, too. And it's about the way people of color, people who look like me and my mom, have been represented in those movies.

You can hear the whole conversation on my new podcast. It's called Silence is Not an Option. But here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHERINE CLARK, DON LEMON'S MOTHER: It was like we were always played down in everything. And I often wondered why we didn't have people of color or somebody that represented me.

LEMON: But you still watched the movies even though there was a portrayal of black people like that.

CLARK: Well, I didn't have anything else to watch.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: There are conversations like that going on all across America. And they should be going on. Tough conversations about being black in America. And I hope you join me on my podcast. It's called Silence is Not an Option, and you can find it on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app.

And right now, in this very moment it is time for some of those tough conversations, and for our first one, we want to turn to CNN's White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. She joins us now from the White House. Kaitlan, good evening to you.

So, let's talk about this, right? The president did an hour of propaganda tonight talking about lawless people tearing down statues. But avoiding the crisis that has killed over 122,000 people. And we just learned -- this is just in. That today the United States hit its highest single day of new coronavirus cases, Kaitlan.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. A disturbing surge that health experts said they're worried about, yet the president did not seem to linger on it during that town hall tonight. He talked about what he said earlier this week, remember there was that debate over whether or not he was serious when he said that he believed his officials should slow down testing. He said tonight he was being sarcastic when he said that.

But once again, Don, he made this false claim that he believes the only reason there are more cases in the U.S. is because there is more testing. Even his allies like people -- Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, has said that cannot explain the surges they're seeing in places like Florida, Texas, Arizona, all these other states, though the president has continuously said that even though his own health experts and his allies have disagreed with him that simply is not the way to explain it.

That it's always because of reopening happening and people relaxing their social distancing measures. Yet the president, Don, really in recent days has tried to put the coronavirus pandemic behind him.

LEMON: Kaitlan, I want you to take a look at this. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You can't. Look, Chicago's an example. It's like worse than Afghanistan.

You look at Honduras, Guatemala, all these different places, we have cities that are worse, in some cases far worse. Take a look at Detroit. Take a look at what's happening in Oakland. Take a look at what's happening in Baltimore. And everyone gets upset when I say it. They say, is that a racist statement? It's not a racist.

Frankly, black people come up to me and say thank you, thank you, sir, for saying it. They want help. These cities, it's like living in hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So, these sir stories have become part of a pattern for the president. Kaitlan, we're hearing, you know, many, many things about these sir stories. Why does he -- what does he do this? What's the evidence?

(CROSSTALK)

[22:14:59]

COLLINS: Yes, I think Daniel Dale was the first to point out that often when the president uses sir when he's telling a story the more likely is that there is no evidence to back up what he's saying.

The president there saying that people come up to him and thank him for what he says. Calling American cities saying it's like living in hell and worse than being in places like Guatemala and Afghanistan. And you know, at the end there he said Baltimore, and it reminded me of when that got started when the president first started attacking Baltimore so much. Going after Elijah Cummings in his district, calling it rodent-infested and all these things.

And that was, of course, Elijah Cummings had challenged his DHS secretary at the time during an oversight hearing. And that is how the president is portraying it during an interview, talking about American cities that he, of course, is the commander in chief of all of these cities, leading all of these, and that's how he's describing them. LEMON: Yes, he's been president for four years, and during that hour

of propaganda he talked about the former administration saying they did nothing about it. Well, what has he done? It's still bad, according to him under -- under his administration that almost four years he's been president. There was a Bush administration before that. There was a Clinton administration before that. There was another Bush administration before that. There was a Reagan administration before that. What did they do, you know?

So, this is happening under his watch. I want to -- I got to move on now, Kaitlan. Thank you very much. I've got to get to something that's important.

Again, I want to tell you about this breaking news that we have coming in now. The U.S. sees its highest single day of new COVID-19 cases with 37,077 cases reported today on Thursday. Wow. Coronavirus is raging all through the south and the west. Fears of apocalyptic surges in Texas cities. Can this country get back on track? That's what we want to know.

That is the question for Dr. Peter Hotez and also Dr. Larry brilliant. They are both next.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, here's our breaking news tonight. We have just hit the record for the most U.S. coronavirus cases in a day. Thirty-one states now report seeing a rise in the number of cases.

I want to bring in now Dr. Peter Hotez, professor and dean of tropical medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. CNN medical analyst Dr. Larry Brilliant. He is an epidemiologist. This is really discouraging and sad news, gentlemen. Good evening.

Dr. Brilliant, over 37,000 new coronavirus cases in the United States just today? That is the highest single day of new cases on record. It's June. We are months into this crisis. How did we get here?

LARRY BRILLIANT, CNN MEDICAL ANALSYT: Well, Don, you know, it's also exactly one month since Memorial Day. And we all know -- every epidemiologist was telling, screaming as loud as we could that three weeks after Memorial Day, we'd have a peak in the cases, and five weeks after Memorial Day we'd begin to see a peak in deaths, hospitalizations and deaths.

If you let everybody out without face masks and without social distancing in the middle of a pandemic, this is what was predicted. This is -- this is a consequence of our actions and a consequence of not having guidance from the federal government and states that follow and counties that follow. It's -- we're in for some rough sledding.

LEMON: I want to get your -- your opinion on this, Dr. Hotez, or your take on it because major, major concern tonight about the situation in Texas. You're also concerned tonight about something that you say no one is talking about, and that's the impact on black and brown communities right now.

PETER HOTEZ, INFECTIOUS EXPERT, BAYLOR UNIVERSITY: Yes, that's absolutely right. So, Dr. Brilliant was brilliant in the way he said it. That's absolutely true. And, unfortunately, I don't see an end in sight. We are going to continue to have this acceleration of cases. That first hump was in the northeastern part of the United States predominately. Now this -- then it went down. Now it's going to go up again.

I likened it to the head of the Lock Ness monster and it's going to continue to rise and rise and rise. But this time it's going to be predominately across the south, especially in the American southwest, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, into Arizona.

And you're absolutely right. I'm very worried about our low-income communities because I think that's kind of a hidden story that's not being appropriately told. That this -- this next wave -- I shouldn't use the term wave. This relapse is I believe when we look the -- when we look at the numbers, especially the deaths, it's going to be predominately people of color, African-Americans, Hispanic Americans in these low-income neighborhoods in places like Houston and Dallas.

So, this is why I'm referring to it as a humanitarian tragedy because the deaths are mounting and still the level of action is modest. People are hesitant. People don't seem to get it that this is a catastrophe and a crisis.

And, you know, I've been living here on the gulf coast for 10 years. And I've -- and I -- and I've gotten to know these people. These are, you know, the most wonderful, kindest people in the world, and it just breaks my heart to know what's happening to them right now.

LEMON: Yes, I would imagine. Listen, we have been focusing on black and brown people when the coronavirus was at its peak, right? The color of COVID. Van Jones and I did specials on that. But this new round of cases, I think you're right, there needs to be focus on the people who are most vulnerable. And many of those people, as you said, are in the south and west.

Dr. Brilliant, the Texas governor isn't closing anything that's already reopened like bars or bowling alleys, he's just delaying moving ahead with the phase. Do you think this is going to be enough? Suddenly he has a newfound respect for masks, but do you think this is going to be enough?

[22:25:00]

BRILLIANT: So, we have -- we have the highest case total that we've had since the pandemic began. If you look at the graph, the epidemic curve for Texas, you'll see exponential growth. You see not a hockey stick but almost a straight stick going up.

This is the time when we have to take urgent methods. We've got to really clamp down on the virus. We've got to find every case. We've got to isolate it. We've got to find the contacts. We've got to quarantine or treat them. And at the same time, we have to re-examine everything that we thought about in this pandemic before.

We had the license, we thought, to open up everything in the economy. We can't do that. We've got to take a look at restaurants. We've got to look at beauty salons and nail salons and places that are indoors where there's a 20 to 50 times greater transmission. It's not enough to just say I won't open up anything else, as the governor has done. You have to peel back some of the things that you've done because you can't fight against a pandemic this way.

LEMON: Yes, you're talking about -- you said restaurants. Places where people are in close confinement. So let's dig in on that. Dr. Hotez, you said, you mentioned the people. You know the people. You said they are great people down there. You've lived down there for a long time.

I want to get more personal because 18 members of one Texas family reportedly tested positive for the coronavirus after a birthday party. Twenty-five people attended the party, 18 of them got infected either at the party or passed it on to others later on. Apparently, they tried to social distance, but it just shows you how contiguous this virus really is.

HOTEZ: Yes, especially just to revisit the low-income neighborhoods, it's harder to do social distancing when you have crowded households. It's harder to do social distancing when you physically have to be in the workplace in order to support your family. You can't do it remotely by Zoom and Skype.

And so, it's -- it's impossible for often people in low-income neighborhoods and they don't have access to public health communications and messaging. Now, we have a fabulous mayor, Mayor Turner, and county executive Linda Hidalgo. They're working as hard as they can to do this. But Houston is massive in size.

Harris County is the second largest county in the country. It's a massive (Ph) task to try to take this on. And right now, there is nothing to slow down the numbers. As Larry mentioned, the approach to simply delay any further reopening is basically -- essentially maintaining the status quo.

So, there's nothing that's going to change, and that -- so that the numbers will continue to rise.

LEMON: Yes.

HOTEZ: So, we absolutely must reimplement some level of social distancing and I'm hoping there's an announcement before the weekend.

LEMON: Well, doctors, we thank you, and we will be seeing you soon, I'm sure. Because this is -- there's no end in sight so far if we continue on this way. Thank you both.

Talk to anyone who is taking coronavirus seriously in this country, as I do every single night, and the same thing keeps coming up. How did this happen in America? Why did we -- why didn't we learn from other countries, even other states like New York? Why can't we do better? I want to talk about that next. [22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here's our breaking news tonight. This country seeing its highest single day of new coronavirus cases. That as we have a damning new report out, it's from the GAO, the Government Accountability Office, on the federal government's botched handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

It concludes the strategic national stockpile was not equipped to provide states with critical medical supplies and it takes the CDC to task for failing to compile sufficient testing data, making it difficult to track the virus. Which has now killed more than 122,000 Americans.

So joining me now is Arthur Caplan, he is the head of medical ethics at NYU school of medicine and CNN presidential historian, Timothy Naftali. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Nice tie, Tim Naftali. Because we are twins tonight. I appreciate you joining us. So, Art I'm going to start with you, because Tim is wearing my tie.

But listen, I want you to check out this graph. OK? The United States is showing coronavirus cases on levels now that we haven't seen since April. Compare that with the European Union or with Italy, which is a mega epicenter -- was a mega epicenter. They turned things around. How did this happen in America, Art?

ARTHUR CAPLAN, GLOBAL INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC HEALTH, NYU: Well, I'm going to say, Don that we have in charge the president who is both scientifically illiterate and the least respectful of science and medicine of any president we've ever had. It's the wrong person at the helm. We are in a situation as well where the president set out to destroy the deep state.

Remember that way back from the campaign, Don, and the deep state is the NIH, the CDC, the FDA, BARDA, every agency you want he has been gutting. I can't even remember the last time he let his scientists out of whatever hostage situation he's got them held up in somewhere. And we have basically said, well, let's stick our head in the sands.

Let's not measure anything. Let's not collect data. Let's not do contact tracing. I put the blame right at the White House, right at the president. I think he's been messaging entirely the wrong way. The opposite of what Europe has done. The opposite of what countries like Italy have done.

LEMON: Yes. Quickly, I want to ask you this because you say coronavirus is on track to become the third leading cause of death in the United States?

CAPLAN: That's right. If it keeps going at this trend, gets to about 180,000 by the fall, we're going to have cancer, heart disease and the covid virus as the third leading cause of death. I mean, the president seems to be running on a platform of you can vote for me because I haven't killed you yet. [22:35:03]

LEMON: Tim, I want to bring you in, but I want to read this line and hear what you have to say about it. This line from an opinion piece by Michelle Goldberg it's in the Times. She says, at the federal level as well as in many states we are seeing a combination of the blustering contempt for science that marks the conservative approach to climate change and the high tolerance for carnage that makes American gun culture unique.

Listen, the president, as you know, at his inauguration, he talked about American carnage. I said this is American carnage when you look at what is happening with this coronavirus. The U.S. is the leading power in the world, Timothy? Why are we not meeting this challenge?

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, we're meeting -- we're in this situation now not simply because of an anti-science president, although there's no question that Donald Trump is setting the wrong tone. But he has -- there are little Trumps all over the country. I mean, you have someone like Mike DeWine who has been a remarkable leader in Ohio, a Republican, but there haven't been a lot of Republican -- and Governor Hogan in Maryland, but you haven't had a lot of Republican governors who have stood up for public's -- public health and science.

And that has been a problem because the public, certainly in south -- the southwestern part of the United States and the southern part of the United States, the public has been inundated with information that is anti-science. Whether it's talking about climate change, whether it's -- and now talking about covid-19. And the public is prepared to doubt what scientific experts say and it's not just Trump's fault.

He, in fact, in part got to power because he marshalled this opposition to science. What's unfortunate is that deep within our country there has always been this struggle against science and scientific truth. Americans have opposed seat belts. Americans have opposed different forms of security in airports.

LEMON: Americans wanted to smoke inside --

NAFTALI: That's right.

LEMON: Didn't want filters on cigarettes.

NAFTALI: There's a competition between the libertarian streak that we have and the realities of science. Donald Trump is just the first president to be an anti-science president.

But he has a legacy before him and he has a lot of enablers around the country that are making it difficult for people to believe that putting a mask on is the right thing to do.

LEMON: Gentlemen, I wish we had more time. Unfortunately, we're out of time. But we will have you back and I'll see you soon. Stay safe. I mean that. Thank you so much.

NAFTALI: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: NASCAR releasing a photo of the noose found in Bubba Wallace's garage and saying the concern for Wallace was real. Yet, some are still trying to claim it's a hoax. We're going to lay out the truth with ESPN's Bomani Jones. You don't want to miss this conversation. It's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

LEMON: So, everyone, I want you to take a look at your screen right now and I want you to listen to this story and let down your guard. Listen to it with an open mind, OK? Look at your screen. This is the photo that NASCAR released showing the noose that was found in a black driver Bubba Wallace's garage at the Talladega superspeedway. That was over the weekend.

An FBI investigation found that the noose, which was tied from a garage door pull rope, wasn't directed at Wallace. That's what the FBI says. And had been in place at least since last fall. A separate investigation by NASCAR could not determine who initially formed the rope into a noose back in 2019.

So I want to bring in now Bomani Jones. He's the host of ESPN's the right time with Bomani Jones. And thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. I've been listening to your conversations. Watching and listening. And fascinating. So, let's put this picture up, Bomani. Back up of this noose on screen. Because some people gave Bubba a hard time about telling me that it was a noose even though that's what the FBI and NASCAR call it. Clearly it's a noose.

BOMANI JONES, CO-HOST, HIGH NOON ON ESPN: Yes, it's a noose, and I think I think the thing that happened was people that had at least some passing understanding about how things worked in that world, they were just assuming that it would be this other kind of pull knot, however you do the rope in order to pull down the garage. And they figured it could look kind of like a noose.

And that picture went up and it was a noose. And I think the thing that got lost in this is, is not like one person is going to go see that and then go call the FBI. Right?

Like whoever the person is that saw that in the first place, my guess is they got on the walkie-talkie and they said, boss, you have to come see this. And then the boss came and that guy got out a walkie-talkie and said, boss, you got to come see this. Like, I'm sure this went through so many steps on the chain before somebody said let's call the FBI.

LEMON: Or let's call Bubba, right? And then let's call the FBI. Because people are making it out like Bubba found it and then just sort of went on a sort of tear about it. That's not what happened.

JONES: No. LEMON: I spoke with Bubba Tuesday night, the day after this sound

bite, I'll let you say what you have to say. The day the FBI investigation finished. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUBBA WALLACE, NASCAR DRIVER: Don, the image that I have and I have seen of what was hanging in my garage is not a -- is not a garage pull. I've been racing all my life. We've raced out of hundreds of garages that never had garage pulls like that. It was a noose. It was a noose that was -- whether it was tied in 2019 or whatever, it was a noose. So it wasn't directed at me, but somebody tied a noose. That's what I am saying.

LEMON: So --

WALLACE: It was -- it is a noose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. So there's been a lot of backlash against him. Phelps thanked him for his leadership today, but did NASCAR support him enough in the face of the blowback? He's the one out there doing interviews getting the blowback. Did they support him enough?

[22:45:05]

JONES: I think that they did. I don't really know who else it is that you'd send out to really do those interviews at this point. Like he is the face of this and it's good that he had the ability to go ahead and handle it, but I think putting out the picture of the noose was a very important thing in supporting him, because they could have easily backed off. And we see this happen a lot where situations like this come up, where we have one impression of what has happened and then some facts come in that kind of change the impression of what it was, but in between we have a lot of other issues and discussions that start.

Very often when that second set of things that comes in that kind of pushes the first narrative out a little bit, people run away from this. That's not what NASCAR has done. They had said, look, we thought it was a noose. We thought it was reasonable to think that it was a noose. And in that time, we we're going to stand behind our guy. And it looked like a hate crime. Like this is one that did all the things like ducks do, it just happened not to be a duck.

Nobody individually was castigated for. Nobody individually was accused of it. I think NASCAR did what they had to do, which was to fervently defend their guy and to tell the world that it -- on a weekend where people are I flying the confederate flag from airplanes over the track and where people are circling around in trucks with the flag, they had to stand up and say, no, we're not going for it.

LEMON: That's what I don't understand. Why people are -- as you said, no one was hurt by it. Why people feel so personally offended by this. If you are not a racist, if you are not someone who would use a noose, then why would you be offended by it, if it doesn't apply to you? I don't understand. No one was personally affected by it except for Bubba Watson, so why are other people so offended by not being able to fly a -- Bubba Wallace, excuse me -- to fly a confederate flag.

JONES: Yes, well, it's interesting to me because pretty much everywhere else you can't do that. Like, there aren't that many places where people are going to show up with a confederate flag. NASCAR made the mistake of spending decades just telling people you can bring your confederate flag here.

And so those people believe, I think, that this is a space that they believe is theirs. So that is their safe haven and if you look across the board, things that people have the hardest time getting rid of in time like these are rituals, are customs, the things like that. Songs that they sing. Team mascot's names and everything else. Like, for reason with people that's always the bridge too far, right. Because of one level they relieve, hey, what's the big deal? It's just a name.

Except for the fact that they fight for that name so strong that you can say in response, hey, man, that is just a name. So, when you start getting to people in those customs and rituals, that's where they tend to have a problem. Because one thing about being white in America generally is you don't have to worry that much about people telling you what to do. And once those folks feel like someone is telling them what to do, this kind of backlash is fairly common.

LEMON: I want to put on -- I want to get this thing real quick. Can we put up -- this up. This stood out to me. NASCAR president Steve Phelps spoke out about the investigation on a phone call with reporters earlier. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE PHELPS, NASCAR PRESIDENT: NASCAR conducted a thorough sweep of all the garage areas across where the tracks where we race. So across those 29 tracks, in 1,684 garage stalls, we found only 11 total that had a pull down rope tied in a knot, and only one noose. The one discovered on Sunday in Bubba Wallace's garage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I -- that doesn't even -- I mean, that says it all right there, Bomani.

JONES: No, I mean, it was reasonable for people to think that a hate crime had been committed. I do agree, though with the NASCAR officially said, he probably should have thrown in alleged. Now, I think a lot of times when we see this statements come up in this moments when people say alleged --

LEMON: Very true.

JONES: We can get frustrated at them for doing that. I think that they, if they had done that then they're not getting nearly as much help from people about this. And that's the one mistake that you can argue that they made. But I think it was a reasonable mistake. Like, I think if you want to say it to NASCAR made a mistake by not sating alleged, that's fine. But I don't think that you can bring the hammer to them for this, given with a situation was. And this is kind of uncharted territory for them and to thinks things that they're trying to handle and the people they're dealing with.

LEMON: Everything you said. Ditto. Bomani, it's a pleasure to have you on. Thank you. I really appreciate you coming on. Enjoy your conversations. They inspire me. They challenge me. And a lot of people. Please come back. Thank you so much. You be safe out there.

JONES: All right. Man, you too.

LEMON: Thank you.

Disney announcing it will redesign Splash Mountain, a ride base on racial stereotypes from the movie Song of the south. I spoke with my mom about that film in my podcast, right. That conversation is next.

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[22:50:00]

LEMON: OK. Listen up everyone. Because I'd like to talk to you about a really special conversation that I had. Bear with me while I lay some groundwork first. OK. Today Disney announced that the splash mountain ride will be re-themed to star the characters from the 2009 movie the princess and the frog which features Disney's first black princess. Why? Because the movie the attraction is based on, Song of the south, which is best known for the song Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah has long been criticized for its stereotypical and offensive portrayals of African Americans. And a romanticized view of the antebellum south.

And fans have been demanding change. Well, on the latest episode of my podcast, Silence is not an option, I speak with my very own mother about these racist portrayals of back people in film including the movie Song of the south. Part of our conversation now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MRS. CLARK, DON LEMON's MOTHER: What is that other one where the Zip- a-Dee-Doo-Dah mess is on where -- oh yeah, with the man playing Uncle Remus.

LEMON: Song of the south.

CLARK: Yes. And he's got all of these kids around them and like everything is so just beautiful and he is reminiscing like slavery was so great. And I am like really.

[22:55:09]

LEMON: What did you think?

CLARK: What I didn't like is why we always had to be Uncle and Mammy in movies. We always had the name uncle and mammy. Uncle who? Who's Mammy? I ain't none of your mammy. That bothered me. Yeah. Very much so. It was like we were always played down in everything. And I often wondered why we didn't have people of color or somebody that represented me.

LEMON: But you still watched the movies even though there was a portrayal of black people like that.

CLARK: Well, I didn't have anything else to watch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Now you see why I am so outspoken. There is a lot more of that conversation, and you can listen with my mother, this conversation and other hard conversations about being black in America and race in America. Make sure you tune in. Silence is not an option. You can find it on Apple podcast or your favorite place to listen to podcasts.

We have some breaking news tonight. We have just hit the record for the most U.S. coronavirus cases in a day and there are concerns in Texas over what the official is calling apocalyptic surges. That is next.

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