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More Than 10 Million People Infected Globally With Coronavirus; WaPo: Trump Campaign Workers Removed Thousands Of Stickers At Tulsa Rally That Promoted Social Distancing; Source: Russian Intel Offered Cash To Taliban Militants To Kill U.S., UK Troops. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired June 28, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:01]

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have made truly remarkable progress.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Here in the United States, over 125,000 have perished.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The scientists, the doctors tell us that on our current trajectory, our hospitals are going to be overwhelmed by mid- July.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): This is a way to indicate that you want to protect others.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think wearing a face mask as great presidents, prime ministers, dictators, I don't see it for myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very strict rules we're supposed to adhere to. He didn't follow them

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The restaurants and bars, they have live music. You know, a lot of stuff going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour now. It is always good to start a Sunday morning with you. I'm Victor Blackwell. It's Sunday, June 28th.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bianna Golodryga, Christi Paul is off. Good to be with you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Good to have you.

This, though, is not good. Ten million cases now, the world surpassed that mark of coronavirus cases. Close now to 500,000 deaths globally. That's according to Johns Hopkins University.

The U.S. added more than 42,000 new cases yesterday alone. Only two states, just two, Connecticut and Rhode Island, look at this map. Only two little spots of green are reporting a decline in cases.

GOLODRYGA: And meanwhile, you see a sea of red there leading the wrong way again is Florida, with more than 9,500 new cases yesterday alone, adding up to more than 18,000 in just 48 hours there.

Meantime, the Trump campaign says it is postponing two events featuring Vice President Mike Pence in Florida and Arizona, quote, out of an abundance of caution.

BLACKWELL: So, let's stay with the pandemic now. CNN's Polo Sandoval is live in New York.

Another day of these alarming reminders that there's a lot of work to be done to get this under control.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Absolutely, Victor, especially when you consider that just recently about five states reported they're one of the more significant upticks in COVID cases here in New York, though, quite the difference here, with a test positivity rate of less than 1 percent.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Over half of the country seeing coronavirus cases surge this weekend. This was the U.S. a month ago, this is it today. Red highlighting the states seeing increases. Florida continues to shatter its own record of daily COVID cases.

On Saturday, that figure surpassed 9,500 people. That's already more than Italy ever saw in a single day when that country was considered the global epicenter of the pandemic in March. And the Sunshine State is also on track to beat New York's highest single-day increase from when the Empire State was the nation's ground zero of the pandemic. A title Florida may soon have.

Miami-Dade's mayor ordering beaches in a city to close for the Fourth of July holiday.

MAYOR CARLOS GIMENEZ (R), MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA: Without a doubt, we've seen a spike in the 18 to 34-year-old and 35 to 44-year-old group. Those two groups have really spike way up

SANDOVAL: Yet, as the numbers rise, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is doubling down on its decision not to call for a mandatory mask order. This as the Senate's most powerful Republican, Leader Mitch McConnell, promotes the use of face coverings, a sharp contrast to President Trump's refusal to wear a mask in public.

MCCONNELL: This is a way to indicate that you want to protect others. And we all need during this period until we find a vaccine to think of us as protecting not only ourselves but others.

SANDOVAL: Texas also seeing increased cases, maintaining well over 5,000 new cases a day since Thursday. In a push to reverse the uptick, the governor ordered bars closed and said in hindsight, he reopened them too soon. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have many friends in the industry in Montrose.

They're all getting sick and the bars closing. And we knew this is going to happen. Yet our state and federal government is allowing it and it's wrong.

SANDOVAL: Public health experts in California are warning the state's hospital system could be overwhelmed without immediate action to slow the COVID spread. California saw a single-day increase of over 6,000 cases prompting Disneyland to push back its reopening.

And yet, the real COVID stats maybe even higher according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. On Saturday, the agency released an antibody study suggesting the total number of COVID cases may be 6 to 24 times greater than what we're seeing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: But for now, the stats suggest that the U.S. has surpassed the grim milestone of over 2.5 million cases overall in the United States. Here in New York, however, certainly significant difference. In fact, today, another site of normalcy as mass will be celebrated at the iconic St. Patrick's Cathedral in Manhattan, for the first time since March.

[07:05:10]

Of course, it won't be your usual Sunday worship. Only about 25 percent capacity in inside the sanctuary. And, of course, social distancing measures will be in place -- Bianna, Victor.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, normalcy can be fleeting. And, of course, New York remembers where things were just a few weeks and months ago.

Polo Sandoval, thank you.

Well, let's bring in Sarah Westwood live from the White House.

And, Sarah, the Trump campaign announced it was canceling events in Florida and Arizona this week. Have they given a reason other than what we all know, and that these two states are seeing their COVID numbers spike to record levels.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Bianna, no. The campaign really hasn't elaborated more than saying that they canceled those events at the last minute out of an abundance of caution. As you mentioned, though, the coronavirus pieces are spiking in both Florida and Arizona.

The vice president plans to travel to those states. According to his office, he will go meet with the governors of those states and their health care teams, in addition to Texas this week.

So, busy travel schedule for the vice president but he will no longer have those political events on his schedule. But those cancellations came just one day after Vice President Pence stood up at that briefing, the first one in nearly two months that happened on Friday and he defended the campaign's decision and the White House's decision to return to the campaign trail to get out there and travel and ask people to gather in large groups, despite the fact that his own administration, his own task force is recommending that people not do that.

In an interview airing later today, Vice President Pence suggest that it's up to governors and state and local officials to enforce and suggest social distancing measures. He did not give a forceful defense of wearing masks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INTERVIEWER: Why not ask people to wear masks?

PENCE: Well, we believe people should wear masks --

INTERVIEWER: Why doesn't the president say that?

PENCE: -- wherever social distancing is not possible, wherever it's indicated by either state or local authorities and the -- the president has worn a mask, I wore a mask on several occasions.

We issued guidelines to reopen America and since that day nearly two months ago, we've made it clear we want to defer to governors, we want to defer to local officials.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WESTWOOD: Now, Pence is pushing back it on the campaign trail has been put him at odds with some of his own public health experts like Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Deborah Birx who had suggested again that people continue to stay home when possible and wear face coverings. And even though many prominent Republicans are starting to push that message as well.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell speaking in Kentucky held up a mask and said it was very important that everyone wear them whenever they go outside in order to contain the spread of the virus until a vaccine becomes available. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: Until we find a vaccine, these are really important. I see various events on television in which people are clearly not wearing masks, not taking this seriously and not doing others a favor. We need to get past that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WESTWOOD: And McConnell's message is stark contrast to President Trump who has not personally worn a mask in most of his public appearances. And in fact, has characterized wearing a mask for himself as a sign of weakness -- Bianna and Victor.

BLACKWELL: Sarah Westwood for us there at the White House. Thank you. Now, you heard the vice president just talk about how people should

follow the advice of, the leadership of the local officials, the local people. Well, "The Washington Post" is reporting that ahead of President Trump's rally in Oklahoma last weekend, his campaign directed the removal of thousands of stickers that read, "do not sit here, please". Those stickers were placed by event management at the BOK Center in Tulsa. They were meant to keep people safe and establish social distancing.

GOLODRYGA: Clearly, the campaign wanted to pack as many people as tightly as possible there. Well, the Trump campaign communications director didn't address the incident, saying only that the event was, quote, in full compliance with local requirements. At least eight staffers have tested positive since that rally and several of the top officials decided to self-quarantine afterwards rather than go back to the office.

BLACKWELL: Let's bring in now, Dr. Jennifer Caudle, a family physician in Pennsylvania, and Dr. Rob Davidson, an emergency room physician in Michigan, and executive director of the Committee to Protect Medicare.

Thank you both for being with us this morning.

Dr. Caudle, I want to start with you. Your reaction to this reporting from "The Washington Post", that there were 12,000 according to their reporting stickers placed to space people out. And, hell, they could have left the stickers there. Sixty-two hundred people according to the fire marshal showed up at the president's rally.

[07:10:02]

They could have filled the seats between the stickers, but they had them removed.

Your thoughts?

DR. JENNIFER CAUDLE, FAMILY PHYSICIAN: It's disappointing. And, good morning, by the way. Thank you so much for having me.

This is disappointing. The social distancing stickers is a great idea, right? This is what we want to be doing. We want to encourage people to social distance, wear a mask, hand hygiene, all of the preventative measures.

We know what science says. And the science says that social distancing among the things mentioned are the things we need to be doing. Removing the stickers, I don't quite understand and it's disappointing because we need to enforce that. We need to remind people to distance where possible.

You know, I go to the local drugstore, even in the building I live in, in Philadelphia, there are social distancing stickers on the floor telling you where to stand, wait for elevators, where to stand when you were in line to check out your food at the local drugstore.

These things are important. Not only does it give people guidance, but it reinforces this message that we are all in this together and we all need to work together to stop coronavirus by doing what we know is right based on science.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Davidson, the vice president of the task force briefing this week tried to defend the decision to hold these mass rallies. You think that the vice president should not even attend these meetings. Why?

DR. ROB DAVIDSON, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Yes, I called for him to be removed from the task force very early on as did my committee of doctors across the country. And I just think he's proven himself not to have the interest of the American people at heart. Really to be playing for an audience of one, President Trump.

The doctors on that stage, all of the health care folks were wearing masks, they took them off briefly and spoke. And Vice President Pence was not.

So, he may speak a good game. He says one thing but then he and the president and at President Trump's rallies, the participants are doing completely the opposite and I think it's a dangerous message to send to the American people.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Caudle, the mayor of Miami-Dade County announced that beaches and parks will be closed for Independence Day weekend, I believe, starting Friday to Tuesday. There's no drinking in bars in Florida, bars are closing in Texas. Other states are pausing.

Are these limits and limitations and changes enough to meet the surge that we're seeing?

CAUDLE: I'm not sure that it's going to be enough. But it's certainly welcome. You know, I personal felt and I think a lot of people felt there were parts of the country reopening too fast and too much too soon.

You know, the way I feel about where we are now, first of all, it's unfortunate that we're sort of going backwards. We need to do whatever we can to slow the spread of coronavirus. That means pulling back, in some places and some ways perhaps shutting back down.

So, the idea of closing parks and beaches, that's the right move. That is the right thing to do. What we hope is it's going to make a big enough difference, such as that continues, again, we will see a lag. What's happening today, we may not see the results until two weeks from now. The more we can do, the better. It's a step in the right direction.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of that lag, Dr. Davidson, back in March and April when we saw daily highs near these new peaks, new cases, we also saw the crisis of PPE shortages, we saw the crisis of the search for ventilators. Is there evidence that hospitals are better prepared for this impending rush of patients essentially into hospitals?

DAVIDSON: What I can say from personal experience and every physician I've spoken with across this country, we are still using our PPE not in the way they were intended. I have an N95 mask clearly on the box. And I posted a picture on Twitter. It says do not reuse.

And we're using them for five shifts. They're doing UV light sterilization in between. We know the integrity of those masks is less than they are when they come out of the package. We don't know how much less. And we know we're putting ourselves at risk.

So, yes, it hasn't been fixed. The vice president says he quotes very big numbers of millions and millions of masks around the country. The need is greater than what has been provided by this administration's actions. Yes, it's still a problem.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Davidson, let me stay with you for this. The president highlighted in a couple of tweets on Saturday the administration's brief filed this week to the Supreme Court asking it to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. When you've got tens of millions who rely on that for health care, especially now with the highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression, what would that mean for that to be invalidated right now?

DAVIDSON: You know, my poor rural county had 20 percent of our residents benefit from expanded Medicaid under the ACA. Under normal conditions, this is devastating to those folks and to people across the country.

[07:5:01]

In the setting of the pandemic and the setting of unknown long-term risks of having had the coronavirus, we do know some people are showing signs of long-term lung function decreases and you know, this is critical. Taking it away this time, it just adds a level of cruelty to the already devastating effects of people losing their insurance. It's kind of bewildering it seems to, you know -- it seems to be something that they've been bent on doing. And he's moving forward.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Caudle, as we wrap here and people are planning vacations potentially for Independence Day weekend, is it as the vice president called it encouraging news that more than 40 percent of the new cases of coronavirus are people under the age of 35.

CAUDLE: Yes, I wouldn't quite put it that way. It's a good thing that we know younger people, younger people tend to fair better terms of the sequellae and severe complications of COVID. That is a fact that young people are not as ill. But young people can still spread it to older people and those with weakened immune systems.

One thing we don't talk about, what my colleague mentioned, just because young people tend to fare better doesn't mean that they always do. I had patients that are young and healthy that ended up that had loss of taste or smell that last for weeks they've recovered from COVID. That the shortness of breath continues and the fatigue even after they've recovered.

Just because younger people may do better doesn't mean they always do. It will be a cold or a walk in the park for them. I really encourage people to not take any risks or chances with. It's important that we wear our masks, that we social distance, and that especially where it's increasing. It's honestly best to stay home.

BLACKWELL: Yes, the "Lancet Journal" just published a study showing some of the severe side effects, the impacts of coronavirus for those under the age of 50. You may survive but there will be consequences potentially.

Dr. Jennifer Caudle, Dr. Rob Davidson, thank you so much.

CAUDLE: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right.

Breaking news out of Louisville, Kentucky. One person is dead, a second person injured after a shooting during a protest in Jefferson Square Park. This happened about 9:00 last night, 9:00 Eastern. Officers have cleared the park, secured the area to investigate.

GOLODRYGA: Protesters there were demanding justice for Breonna Taylor, and 26 year old black woman was willed in her room by police who were serving a no-knock warrant. Before weeks, the park has been the epicenter for protests over the killings of Taylor and George Floyd.-

BLACKWELL: And people who were there, they say this incident will not stop them from fighting for justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAXWELL MITCHELL, WITNESS: I'm going to continue saying her name. This place is going to continue to be Breonna Taylor park to me. This sad incident is an incident we'll never forget what happened here today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So, obviously, this investigation is pretty early on. No information about arrest, possible suspects and still waiting for details about those victims.

GOLODRYGA: And we are learning this morning new details about the Russian's plot to pay Taliban militants to kill U.S. troops. More on that story, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:22:26]

GOLODRYGA: Intelligence official, this is Europe, confirmed to CNN that Russian Officers put bounties on American and British troops serving in Afghanistan.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Nick Paton Walsh joins us now.

Nick, you spoke with intelligence officials. What did you learn?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Extraordinary, this allegation here. European intelligence official tell me that they believe Russian military intelligence officers paid money or offered to pay money to Taliban in Afghanistan if they would kill American or other coalition soldiers.

Now, same European official said, frankly, they were bewildered as to the Russian motivation over this, but they said that these offers resulted in, quote, coalition casualties. They weren't drawn on the details of that, which nationality, the number, the date, the location.

But it clear in their mind that this wasn't an offer that disappeared in the ether. It resulted in Taliban attacks that led to people being hurt in the coalition. They called it callus, shocking and reprehensible.

Now, I should point out the Taliban denied being a part of any scheme like this, to tell them how to conduct their behavior. The Russian embassy in Washington has used the #BlameRussia to say they had nothing to do with it themselves.

And the White House, interesting comment from them, they have not denied the initial intelligence reporting itself first put out by "The New York Times." instead, they have taken issue with part of "The New York Times' reporting that these intelligence reports the desk of President Donald Trump and his Vice President Pence, that in fact the presidents and the VP, possibly at some pint in March.

The White House says that is the case, leaving, of course, many to answer precisely why would you not tell the president about a threat this grave towards American troops, still, fighting America's longest war. So the question is, what was the motivation here for the Russian military intelligence officers to make this particular offer? Did they perhaps want to speed up or increase the chance of American casualties, which will get America out of Afghanistan faster?

Well, I have to say, President Trump has been clear he wants out of Afghanistan as quick as possible. Officials in peace talks, stumbled over prisoner exchanges. They're planning to withdraw yet more troops from that country. So, possibly their thinking for long term revenge, extracting of costs from U.S. forces?

Unclear, as I say, Russia denies involvement in this.

[07:25:02]

It's a complicated tale. No doubt about it something simple. Russian military intelligence for Americans to be killed by the Taliban.

I should point out one more thing here. Important, though, that the particular part of Russian military intelligence known as the GRU who are being accused of this scheme is a unit known as 29155. They're also accused by European intelligence officials are behind the poisoning of the Skripals in Salisbury in early 2018, remember them, the father and daughter found unconscious on a park bench.

Another Britain killed by use of a chemical nerve agent Novichok as well. Other high-profile attacks pinned on this particular unit.

Startling allegations here and a deeply troubling turn, certainly, for America's longest war, and it's increasingly fraught relationship with Moscow.

Back to you.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and, Nick, thank you for that.

Victor, if I could weigh in. It's much easier to break down what Russia's motivation would be, what Putin's motivation would be, and that is sow to discord. He's not a strategist. He's a tactical player.

And he wants to sow discord within U.S. allies and the coalition, have the U.S. troops leave the region as well. He's not a longer term thinker.

The real question is to why the president would do nothing once he got this information. It's really hard to believe that he would not have been briefed when the reporting says he was briefed. For the president to not do anything in response, you have the vice president as well, his son is in the military for crying out loud.

And not only did the president remain silent from what the reporting suggests, but think about his actions after the fact. He pushed for Russia to be back into the G8. He had a phone conversation with Vladimir Putin talking about becoming closer and working together more. That was March 30th. So, presumably after this briefing.

And he's constantly pushing for U.S. and Russian relations to improve, obviously wanting to get U.S. troops out of Germany. That would benefit one country and that would benefit Russia.

So, it's unconscionable that this action happened. It's crickets coming out of Congress right now and for most Republicans. And they need to respond to this.

BLACKWELL: It defies credulity that the president would not have been briefed about this.

And let's assume, let's assume just for this moment that the president had not been briefed. Well, once he found that it was reported on Friday night, of course, they would have called the White House. What has the president done since then?

He's tweeted wanted posters in defense of 19th century Confederate traitors instead of speaking up for the men and women who fight for this country today who have bounties on their heads from Russia. If this -- the president was not briefed, who is going to resign?

GOLODRYGA: Exactly. He spoke at West Point -- he spoke at West Point a few weeks ago. Remember all those troops having to come back there after being quarantined. You have a president who says I'm here defending the military.

And this story where, in fact, as nick side, lives were lost at the hands of these mercenaries paid for by the Russians. It can't get worse than that.

BLACKWELL: If the president was not briefed, someone should resign. GOLODRYGA: Yes, I agree with you there. We will continue to stay on

this story. We'll be on this here at CNN.

Well, the president's critics are jumping on the Russian bounty revelations as well. The anti-Trump political action committee made up of Republicans, the Lincoln Project, is out with a new ad this morning. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AD ANNOUNCER: In the last year, flag-draped coffins returned from Afghanistan. Now we know Vladimir Putin pays a bounty for the murder of American soldiers. Donald Trump knows too and does nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The ad goes on to accuse President Trump of failing to retaliate against Putin but instead repeatedly inviting the Russian president to the U.S.

GOLODRYGA: Well, isolating is hard at any age. But it can be particularly difficult when you're older or have a medical condition.

Up next an important conversation with veteran foreign correspondent and CNNOpinion Writer, David Andelman about the fears he has about isolating for years. You don't want to miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:33:37]

BLACKWELL: All right. In the minutes since Nick Paton Walsh's report on the Russian program incentivizing for Taliban fighters killing U.S. and coalition troops, the president has responded on Twitter.

So let me just read the tweets. He tweets here, nobody briefed or told me, Vice President Pence or Chief of Staff Mark Meadows about the so- called attacks on our troops in Afghanistan by Russians, as reported through an anonymous source by the fake news "New York Times". Everybody is denying it and there have not been many attacks on us.

Nobody has been tougher on Russia than the Trump administration with Corrupt Joe Biden, and Obama, Russia had a field day, taking over important parts of Ukraine. Where's Hunter? Probably just another phony "Times" hit job, just like the failed Russia hoax.

Several things, Mr. President, you are still not saying what you are going to do. Russia has incentivized killing American troops. What are you going to do? You are focusing on "The Times" and former President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden. What is your response?

You are comfortable tweeting that Americans are thugs and lowlifes but you say nothing about Vladimir Putin. Why?

Another thing. The annexation of Crimea, that is still happening today. You have done nothing about that. [07:35:01]

You complained about it happening during the Obama administration. But Russia was kicked out of the G8 for that reason, and you want to bring them back. How does that reconcile with no one being tougher on Russia?

We're following your Twitter account. You are obviously following the program. If you will tweet again and answer those questions or send out a press release or answer what are you going to do, we'll be waiting for that, Mr. President.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, that's right. It's called deflection.

And after 24 hours, their best excuse is he was not briefed. It speaks to the dysfunction of the current government. We will be following the story.

We are following breaking news around the world. Now 10 million people, more than 10 million people have tested positive for the coronavirus. It's close to 500,000 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

Now, for millions of Americans, reopening, getting back to normal -- well, that was never really an option. In a CNN opinion piece, our next guest writes, as we celebrate America's opening up, there must be millions of Americans just like me asking themselves, is this my life until the end? Must we feel marginalized as our friends and relatives return to work and pick up their lives?

Joining me now is David Adelman, former "New York Times" Southeast Asia bureau chief, executive director of the Red Lines Project, and author of a new book "A Red Line in the Sand."

David, thanks you so much for joining us.

This is such an important topic. And it's hard to have this conversation with those in our lives who are above 65. And you address this in the sense that, yes, there are those who have suffered and those who have god forbid perished with the coronavirus and those who like yourself are in hiding and living a different life altogether in the midst of a pandemic because you fear what happens if you do catch it.

Talk about what your life has been like over the past few months.

DAVID ADELMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE RED LINES PROJECT: You know what, Bianna, I came back from Paris on March 13, which is three and a half months ago. And, basically, I have been sort of under house arrest with an ankle bracelet effectively. We have a little cabin in the woods out in northeastern Pennsylvania.

And, look, we are very fortunate. We have a beautiful place out here. It's fine. But it is just myself and my wife. Myself and my wife.

So, it's very, very difficult, and looking forward, there's no real path forward. There doesn't seem to be acceptance by the government that this is an issue for 25 million asthmatics, for 40 million people over the age of 75.

You know, asthmatics are all ages. I first began developing asthma 70 years ago. I have had it my whole life. I have been around the world. I have covered wars, revolutions and everything else.

But I have 30 percent lung function now. If I get COVID, I'm a goner. All my doctors suggested that's the case. So what do I do?

GOLODRYGA: And you're right, your doctor told you are the most functioning 70-year-old with a 30 percent lung capacity that he has ever treated. And you're absolutely right in the sense that age is just a number pre-pandemic, right? You traveled the world. You were very active.

Here we are in the midst of the worst pandemic we have seen in many generations. And you talk about the fact that even if a vaccine does come, which everyone is anticipating hoping things will go back to normal after the fact, that may not be the case for those who have pre-existing conditions and who are over 65 years old.

ADELMAN: Well, you know, even the influenza vaccine I have had for years, and it's been very effective for me. But I did get pneumonia at one point in Paris, when I had some influenza. I was in the hospital for a couple of days for this.

So, it is not -- the vaccine is not foolproof. People are saying it may well be 60 percent, 70 percent, 80 percent effective.

The last 20 percent, do I want to roll the dice. I have two chances on it of 10 of dying. This is a very, very difficult choice for me. And particularly difficult, by the way, because very few people unfortunately even in our area here, seem to be respecting the idea that if you wear a mask, you might actually protect people like me.

GOLODRYGA: Well, that's a whole other conversation. Obviously we have been having it throughout the show. But it is so important to have you on, because there are so many families are talking about this, that want to see their grandparents. Grandparents haven't seen their children. They haven't seen their grandkids.

And you are not in the forgotten group. You are just trying to protect yourself more than even the rest of the general public, given that you are so vulnerable to this disease. But you also make a point to say, hey, you're not forgotten.

[07:40:00]

And you pay attention to the politics. And you want politicians to pay attention to you as well and that you are voters.

And obviously, these are the most dependable voters of people who are over 65 years old.

David Adelman, it's a wonderful piece. You have remained active. You have written a book. I don't want this to be a downer conversation, it's just important to get out.

(CROSSTALK)

ADELMAN: I finished the book while I'm out here, in fact. I finished the book while I'm out here in fact. But thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

GOLODRYGA: Well, you look wonderful. Give your wife our best. And thank you for joining us.

ADELMAN: Sure.

GOLODRYGA: Well, President Trump has thrown insults at judges, accused critics of crimes and pardoned his supporters. Coming up, with speak with CNN's Jake Tapper about tonight's special report, "TRUMP & THE LAW AFTER IMPEACHMENT".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:45:17]

BLACKWELL: A new CNN special report airs tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. "TRUMP & THE LAW AFTER IMPEACHMENT" hosted by Jake Tapper. It's a one hour documentary. It will take a look at the president's experience with the legal system before and during his presidency.

Here's a snippet of what to expect.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is what the end result is.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER (voice-over): Two weeks after Trump was acquitted of obstruction of Congress and abuse of power charges in the Senate impeachment trial, the president declared --

TRUMP: I'm actually, I guess, the chief law enforcement officer of the country.

TAPPER: Not acting as if he is above the law, as Democrats repeatedly asserted during the trial, but that he is the law.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): This is President Trump totally unleashed after he got out of the impeachment trial. It tells us that he thinks he is king, that he can call all the shots at the Justice Department.

TAPPER: And the chief law enforcement official of the land, Attorney General Bill Barr, has seemed willing and eager to do the president's bidding.

DONALD AYER, FORMER DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL UNDER PRES. GEORGE H.W. BUSH: He believes the president ought to be all powerful.

TAPPER: Donald Ayer served as deputy attorney general under President George H.W. Bush.

AYER: Bill Barr believes the checks and balances that have limited other presidents shouldn't apply to his president, Donald Trump. And he is working hand in hand with Donald Trump to realize that goal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: And joining us now is CNN anchor and host of tonight's special, Jake Tapper.

Jake, always good to see you.

This is a fascinating and important piece that you will be bringing us, a special you will bring us tonight. And you'll be looking at President Trump's words and actions related to the legal norms and the rule of law.

TAPPER: Yeah. In fact, there's so much material we are really just focusing on president Trump this year. President Trump since he was acquitted by the Senate in the impeachment trial. There's obviously so much else we could be talking about, but we're really just looking at, well, you remember after he was impeached, Senator Collins and others suggested that the president have learned a lesson and that he would modify his behavior accordingly.

But if you listen to people like John Bolton, the only lesson the president learned is now he can do whatever he wants. And he has been going after the rule of law in various ways to help friends, and punish enemies and help himself in a way that is really, truly unprecedented in this country.

BLACKWELL: Wow. You know, you brought up the Republican members of Congress who said that he learned his lesson. I was going to come to you with that. Give us an idea what more we will see, because a lot of this is ongoing. This isn't just things that have been settled as the case with Berman out of the Southern District of New York and ongoing with Roger Stone and the rest.

TAPPER: That's right. We have had to update this documentary several times just in the past few days with news of the president and Bill Barr firing the respected and Republican, we should note, U.S. attorney from the Southern District of New York, who is widely respected for his independence and his office has gone after several Trump allies, including Michael Cohen. There seems to be an investigation into Rudy Giuliani right now as well.

We have to keep updating it, including with what John Bolton is saying in his book, that the president is pushing obstruction of justice as a way of life. Those are Bolton's words, not mine. Just looking at what he is doing what it comes to weaponizing the department of justice to try to undermine Mueller, prosecute political opponents, use his campaign to file lawsuits against media organizations, not for things that are wrong but for opinions they disagree with, including a CNN poll that squares with a bunch of other polls, and on and on and on.

GOLODRYGA: You have enough material you could turn into this a series, Jake.

BLACKWELL: Certainly could. Always good to see you. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: And coming up --

TAPPER: See you, guys. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: See you, Jake.

And coming up, if you have ever wondered what outer space smells like -- I mean, who among us hasn't wondered that? I know Victor talks about it all the time. Well, a new fragrance just for you. Although you might want to hear what it smells like before you start spraying yourself all over.

We'll be right back.

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[07:54:25]

BLACKWELL: Soon you may be able to buy a new perfume called eau de space. Astronauts say it is a smell, the mix is gunpowder, seared steak, raspberries and rum.

The scent was originally created by NASA to recreate the smell of outer space, to help astronauts train.

GOLODRYGA: So many people demanding to smell this. Well, the company says eau de space is successful, smell of the moon could be next. It could spark a whole trend of smell of Mars, or what-have-you.

The Kickstarter has already raised more than $23,000 -- $23,000.

[07:55:05]

Victor, are you going to buy it?

BLACKWELL: So, gunpowder, seared steak, raspberries and rum, that's called Saturday night and Sunday morning.

(LAUGHTER)

BLACKWELL: Yes, I'd buy it.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Well, you have to tell me how it is. It has been wonderful being with you this weekend. Thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: I have really enjoyed it. Thank you for being with us.

GOLODRYGA: I have too. I have too.

Thank you for starting your morning with us.

BLACKWELL: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH JOHN KING" is up next.

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