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Cuomo Prime Time
16 States Pause Or Roll Back Reopening As COVID-19 Death Toll Surpasses 126,000; Source: Russian Bounty Plot Was Included In Presidential Daily Brief In The Spring; Black Man Sues Valdosta, Georgia Police In Excessive Force Case. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 29, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Because you got a lot of people in your profession who waxed poetically for weeks and weeks about how Florida was going to be just like New York. "Wait two weeks. Florida's going to be next. Just like Italy, wait two weeks." Well, hell we're eight weeks away from that. And it hasn't happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: What now? Shh! Not going to hear him here. You won't see him here. Why? Because he's got nothing to say. When he had a chance to speak, he spoke too soon, he did too little, and now, his State is suffering too much.
New York's peak and daily cases was what, in April? The five-day average of daily cases hit almost 10,000. Terrible! Things here still aren't great. We're just moving in the right direction.
Florida Health Officials reported nearly 10,000 new Coronavirus cases on Saturday, its highest single-day since the start of the pandemic. He made Trump happy. Governor DeSantis did. And now, more Floridians than they can count accurately appear to be sick.
More than half our states have growing cases now. 16 are currently, having to pause or roll back re-openings because they did not do the right things the right ways. Texas, parts of California, bars have been directed to close back down.
The Secretary of Health and Human Services says the window is closing for us to get this right.
Even Pence, who you saw silently by DeSantis' side, as he spewed nonsense, seems to be his strongest asset as an ally, even he is now saying "You should wear a mask." That's good since he's the Head of the Coronavirus Task Force. It's bad that he is only saying so now.
But the really ugly reality is that Pence still sat there and enjoyed this maskless choir, of more than 100, singing on Sunday. It doesn't matter if you're singing songs to the Lord. There is no Commandment that "Thou shalt do stupid things in my name and get COVID." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO - VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE ATTENDING A CHOIR OF 100-PLUS PEOPLE PERFORMING WITHOUT WEARING MASKS)
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CUOMO: The main Commandment, if you care, if you believe, was to "Love one another as I have loved you." Keep your distance. If you can't, keep your mask on. Wash your hands.
At this rate, there is a real chance that quarantine may become the reality for more of us in this country.
And for many of us, here is the scary part, a second time. It is possible you may see me in my basement once again. Why? Because this isn't about being scared. This is about scaring us straight with the facts.
Let's bring in our Chief Doctor, Sanjay Gupta.
You know, I thought a lot tonight about suggesting whether or not we'd see people going in a second time, Doc, and what that would mean for us.
But I have to tell you, more and more, as I learned, and you and I still have to do our story, about plasma donations, frankly, I've been stalling on it because I wanted it to get the attention it will deserve, and we have other big pressing issues in the country, but antibodies are no guarantee.
People who had them were seeing them go away. And if things don't go right, over time, places that made it through, may start to see a resurgence in cases. What do you see in the numbers that give you the most immediate concern for spread right now?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Let me start with the good news. Then I'll - then I'll tell you the - the predictions--
CUOMO: Good.
GUPTA: --which are a little bit more dire.
First of all, with the antibodies, Chris, because I think that is an important story, you know, I've been following this very closely, and obviously, your story, you know, about the antibodies, and you developing antibodies.
One thing that we haven't seen here, in this country, we're five months in now, is cases of documented reinfection in the United States, just something to keep on the mind here.
If the antibodies were not providing some level of protection, I think we would have started to see some reinfection rates here. That doesn't mean that they won't come. Maybe it's shorter protection than we realize, but that's just something to keep an eye on, Chris. We'll talk about that more.
Tomorrow will be six months since the World Health Organization first notified the world about this mysterious cluster of pneumonia cases coming out of China, six months ago, tomorrow.
Since then, 10 million people have become infected, 500,000 people around the world, and a quarter of them, as you well know, in this country alone.
[21:05:00]
I thought we'd be having a different conversation right now. The back of my mind secretly hoped, Chris, by July 4th, you and I would be having a different conversation about where the country stood, that most of the country would look beige or green, and we would feel like we're truly getting on the other side of this, not through it, but at least, you know, starting to come on the other side of that curve.
Unfortunately, we're not anywhere close to that, Chris.
And when I look at the maps now, of what the country looked like, Memorial Day versus now, and I think about the country as a human body, before, I thought maybe there was some localized disease we could go and go after.
And now, I'm worried about the whole country, Chris, even New York where you are, because I don't think there's any place that's immune.
When you have this much disease in the country, this much infection that's spreading, sadly, and I take no joy in saying this stuff, I think everyone is vulnerable once again, and we all have to actually think of the aggressive treatment that is necessary now, to get us through this.
CUOMO: And this was supposed to be the "The break, right?" This was supposed to be that as long as we--
GUPTA: Right.
CUOMO: --do the right things, summer should be a relaxation, because we don't have the same concentration of people indoors, as we do in--
GUPTA: That's right.
CUOMO: --the less good weather. What did we get wrong?
GUPTA: I think somebody asked me today "What did we get right?" And I had to scratch my head and think what did we get right here? And the only thing I think maybe we got right, at least in the beginning, was that the people, in some places, rose to the occasion.
Despite there not being policies yet, you know, people actually started staying indoors. I didn't think the country would actually abide by these stay-at-home orders.
We had some of the biggest behavioral shifts, ever recorded in human history, going on, over the last several months, and people did rise to the occasion. Problem is that we got impatient and bored too quickly, and we gave up on the treatment.
To extend that treatment metaphor again, it was like as if a patient was getting chemotherapy for a cancer, abolished the therapy halfway through, and is upset that the cancer hasn't disappeared that that's - that's, I think, the fundamental thing we got wrong.
I think we minimized this, Chris. And I get, you know, you said this from the beginning. "We didn't test because we didn't want to know the problem. We minimized them. We put our heads in the sand," I think that's true.
And I think everything else is derivative from that, the less emphasis on masks, the less emphasis on testing, the opening up too early, it all came because we didn't take this seriously, despite what we were seeing in other places around the world.
CUOMO: You know, I remember, when we were looking at Italy, you know, and obviously that's where my blood comes from, and it was a little bit embarrassing, to see them getting slapped around by it, by not paying attention.
But then I was just watching an interview that we have here with one of the leaders of that country, and they're getting to a better place rapidly.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: And they said "Once we knew what it was, we stopped playing games with the truth."
And we haven't done that here, whether it's our President who doesn't talk about it, the Vice President, who, you know, just as a joke is the Head of the Coronavirus Task Force, he's finally wearing a mask, but looking with joy, at a 100 people, without masks, singing, in an enclosed space, and you wonder what's going to happen there. But also what we're doing with the numbers.
This new IHME model, young people, and the problem they create, in Florida now, DeSantis, the Governor there, is blaming them.
But State News, just before my show tonight, had a segment saying, with a doctor saying, "Young people, they're just not at risk, for more serious illness. I don't know why anybody is worried about the young people."
What is the truth?
GUPTA: Well the truth is that young people are at less risk than older people and older more - and people with pre-existing conditions are more vulnerable. But what's so different about this virus is this whole idea that anybody can spread it, even if you don't have symptoms. So, this is very predictable.
Right now, you have about - about half the people in Florida are under the age of 35, out of these new infections. And that's why the death rate is going down. That's why the death rate hasn't gone up. Let's put it that way.
The problem is it's very predictable, Chris, where this goes next. And again, I take no joy in talking about this stuff this way. It sounds way too clinical.
But we know that the - the infection rate will spread to more vulnerable populations, older populations, people with pre-existing diseases, and the death rate will go up. I hate to say it, but this is predictable. We've seen it around the world.
The virus is the virus. The virus is the one constant in this whole equation. It hasn't changed. You can predict that how that will behave. But everything else is a little bit - it becomes arbitrary because it all depends on how people are actually going to react to it.
CUOMO: I think not only do you have to say it, which you do, of course. I think you need to say it more than you ever did before, because you're now battling fatigue of people hearing it. It's not resonating the same way.
Look at DeSantis. DeSantis in Florida let everybody go crazy over spring break. He then exported all that virus back to wherever - wherever they wanted to go, OK? Now he is blaming the young people.
But it has always been true that they will be more asymptomatic, have lighter symptoms, but spread the virus just the same as anybody else, who has bad symptoms.
[21:10:00]
Me spreading the virus, and some 19-year-old, who barely knows they have it, same effect on you, God forbid. Tony Fauci spoke about this. And I think it's - I want you to explain the significance of this sound bite that we're going play right now.
Play Fauci, please.
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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: What you're seeing is community-based spread, where 20 percent to 40 percent of the people who are infected don't have any symptoms.
So the standard, classic paradigm of identification, isolation, contact tracing doesn't work, no matter how good you are, because you don't know who you're tracing. They're out there. They don't even know that they're infected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: What does that mean? GUPTA: What Tony Fauci - Dr. Fauci is saying there is this idea that unless you have adequate testing, where you can actually test asymptomatic people, you can do what's called surveillance testing, then the entire rest of the system sort of breaks down.
In typical scenarios, typical sort of viral outbreaks, people likely have some symptoms. If they have those symptoms, hopefully, more likely than not, they're staying home, and not spreading it.
This virus, the fact that it spreads asymptomatically, the way that it does, changes everything. Not only does it do this, what Dr. Fauci is saying is 40 percent of the spread probably comes from asymptomatic people.
So, you've got to be testing widely to find those people, who "Wow! I didn't know I had the virus. I have this? This is a surprise to me," you've got to find those people, and get them isolated. Find out who their contacts were. It's laborious work.
And the thing is if you're getting over 40,000 new infections a day, it's not just laborious, it becomes impossible. You can't hire a sector of society large enough to be - to be able to actually do that.
And Chris, you know, the other thing is we've known this for some time, right? This is not new information, what Dr. Fauci is talking about, in terms of asymptomatic spread, has known - been known since late February.
What we've known about these super-spreader events, like that choir- singing, that was particularly disturbing to me.
And I'll tell you, this wasn't just this choir event that was disturbing to me, it was the fact that we've known that that's a super-spreader event. We saw a study that came out of Washington, where 87 percent of the members of the choir subsequently became infected, 53 of them got sick, two died.
We've known that. It was part of the CDC guidelines to stop doing these types of events, then they took it out of the guidelines, then they put it back in the guidelines.
If we can't even get what we know right, how are we going to make progress? That - that's what really what that choir event represented to me was - was the fact that we can't even get what we know right anymore. That's a problem.
CUOMO: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much. Keep fighting the good fight.
Remember, simple axiom here, for you guys at home, is anybody who doesn't want to talk to you about testing, anyone who questions testing, doesn't want you to know the truth. And anybody who doesn't want you to know the truth cannot be trusted. Period!
Now, we know the truth in Florida. Cases are up 500 percent from just weeks ago, best-known beaches just got shot down - shut down for the holiday weekend.
If the same Governor who was all about letting those kids, kill it on spring break, now blaming young people for the problem, not himself. How does that sit with the Miami Mayor? We're going to have him next.
And later in the show, please watch tonight. This video has gone all over the country. Now, not only is it about multiple cops having trouble, controlling one man, but you remember what the big problem is here, in Georgia? It's the wrong man. He committed no crime.
Why is he screaming? I'll tell you why and why it should make you scream as well, in an exclusive interview ahead.
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CUOMO: I see your messages. I watch them during the show. Please don't tell me that Florida's crisis is about how much they're testing. It's about how many people they're finding out are sick, and the rate of sickness is going up, OK?
Here's the fact. The positive rate of the testing they're doing is now up to about 15 percent. Context, the World Health Organization says governments should try to keep that below 5 percent.
Now, I'd like to say, and here's the reality, look at the hospitalization numbers. Because that's not about testing, that's about sickness, right? That's the best metric. They won't release them in Florida. Think about that.
That leaves local leaders, like Miami Mayor Francis Suarez, to make the tough decisions on a community-by-community basis.
It's good to have you back on PRIME TIME. I wish it were for a better reason. I'll be honest. I'm surprised by the slide in that State. What are you seeing in the communities that you can control right now?
MAYOR FRANCIS SUAREZ, (R) MIAMI, FLORIDA: Well what we're seeing is precisely what you're seeing, which is this last week alone, in Miami- Dade County, we had close to 7,000 new cases.
We broke two records, one with 1,500, which is three times the high watermark in late March-April, which was 500 for one day, and then another day with 2,000. That's actually 2,100 cases for one individual day, which is four times greater than the high watermark that we had in late March, early April.
So, we - you know, we instituted, as you know, Chris, last week, a "Mask in public" rule.
And just today, I announced stiffer penalties for businesses that are breaking the rules, and not abiding by the rules. For a business that doesn't abide by the rules, they're going to be shut down for 10 days for the first instance, 15 days for the second instance, and 30 days for the third instance.
CUOMO: What are you hearing from your Health Officials, and the hospitals, in different communities, and my understanding is that you're seeing more hospitalizations, more strain on the system.
I can't give you a State-wide number because DeSantis won't release them. But what are you seeing in your communities?
SUAREZ: We are absolutely seeing an increase in hospitalizations.
We do see that the largest percentage of new cases is coming from that 18-35 age range. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not being hospitalized. Maybe the hospitalizations are shorter.
[21:20:00]
Obviously, the medical system has gotten better, at treating the disease, and that's certainly something that's a positive piece of news. And the death mortality rate is still, thankfully, low.
But what we also know is that all of those indicators lag. They lag anywhere from two weeks to five weeks in the case of obviously mortality rates. And so, you know, it's yet to be determined, exactly how these new infections are going to in fact - are going to affect the system.
And, of course, the concern is that a lot of these young people live with their parents, live with their grandparents, or are in, you know, parties, graduation parties, you know - you know, house parties, and that they can be spreading the disease to the more vulnerable population that could influence hospitalization rates, and death rates, to a point where we may have to take more dramatic measures.
CUOMO: What do you say to people who say, "You know, Suarez, I can't believe you're giving into this pressure to pretend that this thing is going to kill all of us and you're closing beaches. I mean, you know, you're giving in. This is weakness. It's going to pass. Don't stifle us."
SUAREZ: Look, that's part of leading. Part of leading is making tough decisions, understanding that there are some people that are not going to like it, understanding that people are going to criticize the decisions that you make.
You know, we were one of the first cities to cancel large events, and I got criticized for it, you know, months ago.
You know, I think putting on a requirement of a face mask is no different than telling people that they should wear a seatbelt. I mean, you know, if you wore a seatbelt, it's not a guarantee that if you get into a bad accident, you're going to be - you're going to come out of it alive. But it certainly increases your chances.
And all the studies show that having a mask in public, wearing a mask in public, increases your chances that you're going to be able to prevent yourself from getting sick.
And so, that's why we - that's why we require it. It's not because we want to take away people's freedoms, or their liberties, or be owners. It's simply because we want to give them the best opportunity, to be healthy for them, and their families, and that's why--
CUOMO: Right.
SUAREZ: --that's why we're doing it.
CUOMO: And a seatbelt, you know, their argument about that was "Don't tell me how to protect my life." Masks are about protecting other people. You may not even know you have it.
Do you believe that the Governor should be releasing the State-wide data and should be putting in effect a State-wide mask mandate?
SUAREZ: Look, if he would ask for my perspective, I would recommend that he do that that he do put in a State-wide mask mandate, because the number of new cases in the State is even worse than in Miami-Dade County.
You're talking about 9,500 this weekend, and a few days where you're - you're close to 9,000, which is, you know, a 7x multiplier from the high-watermark. In the case of Miami, where we're still significantly up, but we're about 4x from our worst moment, so, I would recommend it. I think it's the prudent thing to do.
In terms of the hospitalizations, that was done by County order, and we get the hospitalizations every single day. And I would recommend that he do something similar for the State, so he gets the hospitalization State-wide.
I'm sure he's in contact with the hospital administrators. I know I am. I spoke to - spoken to hospital administrators, twice today, and they are definitely telling me that we're getting closer and closer to that capacity limitation.
CUOMO: Well I'm sure he's getting the numbers. It's that he doesn't want other people to see them.
But what he's missing in that is he's being too self-conscious about it, because if people know the numbers State-wide, it will spread the urgency, and that helps contain the spread of the virus.
Mayor Francis Suarez, best of luck to you there. You will always have this platform to make the case of the state of play in your own State.
SUAREZ: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, God bless, be well.
SUAREZ: God bless you.
CUOMO: This is a year of astonishing change. History will take another big step forward, OK? The last State in our Union is finally ready to leave the Confederacy where it belongs, dead and in the past. Details ahead.
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CUOMO: When you appeal to the head, and the heart, and get nowhere, see what happens when you mess with the money.
Mississippi is set to remove the symbol of the Confederacy from their State flag. A big reason why? Politicians act out of fear of consequence more often than they do out of good conscience.
Major organizations made moves that could mean money. Walmart taking down the flag outside its stores, the NCAA and the SEC announcing no Championship events in Mississippi until the flag was changed.
Now, once the Governor signs the law, no State flag will bear that symbol in this country.
The Confederate battle emblem has been a part of the State flag since 1894, three decades after Lee surrendered. The move comes amid a growing reckoning with racism in this country.
As quickly as opinions are shifting, remember, it was only in 2001, when voters there decided 2-to-1 against changing the flag. There is hope. There is progress, even in a time of chaos.
There's also developing news in the controversy over what the President knew, or didn't know, about the possible Russian bounty on American troops. Was the warning flagged for Trump? Does the warning matter?
We have a Congressman, on the House Intel Committee, himself a former Air Force B-1 pilot. What does he think of the situation? He's here, next.
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CUOMO: All right, so let's try to walk through what we know, and what we don't know, together.
Tonight, a U.S. official, with direct knowledge, tells CNN, President Trump did get Intel, on Russia possibly offering to pay the Taliban to kill U.S. troops.
Why does that matter? Because we're getting all these mixed messages, out of the White House, about what they knew, what they didn't know. The source says the Intel was included in the Presidential Daily Briefing sometime this past spring.
Now the question there will be what does that mean? Does it mean that they knew it absolutely? Does it mean it must be really important because it's in there? Good question!
President Trump denied on Sunday that he was briefed. Now, does that mean he doesn't include the Daily Briefing, of all the things that he's told, that he's saying that this wasn't singled out? Is he just lying? Did he ignore the memo? Good questions!
He's known to prefer hearing about things, and he is basically "Let it be known, he doesn't want to read." The White House says he was not told orally.
Republican Congressman Chris Stewart was briefed today on the part that matters the most, OK, which is "Do we really believe that this was happening, that Russia was putting out bounties on American servicemen, or maybe still is?"
[21:35:00]
Congressman, God willing, your family is well. We know, in Utah, you're seeing cases with COVID that are going to be difficult to control. So, God bless you and the family. Thank you for being with us tonight.
REP. CHRIS STEWART (R-UT): Good to be with you, Chris, thank you.
CUOMO: Now obviously, we know that you take your work on the Committee very seriously. You're a veteran yourself.
What is the straight deal on what you were told about the Intelligence backing this assertion that Russia may have been trying to offer bounties, to fighters in Afghanistan, to take out Americans?
STEWART: Well - well look, Chris, like you said, I'm a veteran. These are actually my father's Air Force wings, my brothers have served it. It's just deep in our family's DNA.
There's nothing that I wouldn't do to protect our soldiers. And I think every person in leadership feels that way. The truth is, is that we don't know.
Could Russia have done that? Absolutely. Russia is not our friend. They're not an ally. They seek to harm us. They seek to diminish us, and diminish our role in the world, everywhere, but particularly in a very vulnerable spot like the Middle East. So, could they have done that? Absolutely.
Do we know they did that? We just don't know yet, which is why the President and other Senior Leadership haven't acted or done anything on this yet, because, once again Chris, we just don't know. We're trying to find out, for sure.
But this is something that goes back a long time too. This isn't something just popped up in the last few weeks, or the last few months. Some of this Intel actually goes back for several years.
CUOMO: OK. But when you say they could have done it, are you just saying that because they don't like us, or did they present you with information, obviously without betraying what you were told specifically, but that they actually have Intelligence that leads to some level of confidence that this was actually being done?
STEWART: Well I wouldn't phrase it level of confidence that this is actually being done.
But I would say a level of confidence that it was a possibility. It was something we need to keep our eyes out, something we need to try to inform ourselves, and to discern, you know, accurately, is it true or not.
But look, there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of cases like this, where we - we know we're fed Intel, we see warning signs, we see something that's concerning, we don't know if it's true or not, we keep looking, we pursue it, some of them turn out to have veracity, be accurate.
CUOMO: Right.
STEWART: Many of them don't. It's - this is ongoing battle that we have to try to keep ahead of threats like this.
Well, once again, really clear, Russia, would it shock me if they did this? Absolutely it wouldn't.
CUOMO: OK. That's the part that matters to me.
I know you have your guys monitor what we say on the show here, so you know what the context is. I haven't been running with the ball of "I can't you - believe you guys didn't do anything. I can't believe you didn't do anything."
I've been watching this to see if it's true or not. Once we know if it's true, then you better be doing things before I have to ask you about it, so that's the part that mattered to me.
Now to the secondary part of this which, of course, involves the President.
STEWART: Well Chris, can I make?
CUOMO: Go ahead, go ahead, Chris.
STEWART: Can I make a comment on?
CUOMO: Go ahead, Congressman, go ahead.
STEWART: Well it's just - it's just this idea that, of course, we would want to know if it's true or not first.
CUOMO: Of course. Of course.
STEWART: We don't want to confront nations or being--
CUOMO: Absolutely.
STEWART: --you know, invading another country until we know it's true or not.
CUOMO: Absolutely. Agree a 100 percent. God forbid you ever do it any other way. We're on the same page.
Now, if it mattered enough for the DNI to put it in a Daily Briefing for the President, is that something that he should be aware of?
STEWART: Yes. That's actually a great question. And I think it deserves an explanation. Everyone calls it the Presidential Daily Brief. But it's really an Executive Daily Brief.
It's not just for the President. It's for many people in government. All this cabinet secretaries get it. Many of the senior people see the Daily Brief. So, it's not just for the President.
The other thing is it's not just a one-page or two-page synopsis. The actual Daily Brief might be 40 pages, 50 pages, 60 pages, and that's on a daily basis.
And from that, once or twice a week, maybe more often if necessary, but a couple times a week, they'll take out the most urgent, the most credible, and they will brief the President on those things.
But no President sits down and reads the entire Daily Brief every day. It's just too much. No President has ever claimed to do that. It's too much.
It's just "Here's a list of things we're worried about, and a couple of times a week, let's talk about the most serious ones." And this one just never reached that level of credibility that they briefed it to the President.
CUOMO: So, you believe that the President was never told anything about this threat by anybody.
STEWART: Well I'm certain that's true. I mean they've been very clear.
Director Ratcliffe, the CIA, the President, the Vice President, the Robert O'Brien, the NSA, everyone around him, has been very clear that they did not brief this to the President or the Vice President.
CUOMO: And you're OK that they didn't, from what you learned today, you're OK that this wasn't given--
STEWART: Yes.
CUOMO: --more priority in a briefing to the President, or the VP, or the White House.
STEWART: Yes, yes, because again, it just didn't reach the level of credibility.
[21:40:00]
And, by the way, here's something that I think would back that up for you, Chris. It's important to know.
Nancy Pelosi had this presented to her as well in much the same format, so did Adam Schiff. All of us did. It was in the General Intelligence analysis that we were seeing on a daily basis or weekly basis.
None of them picked it out and wanted to pursue it either. It was just one of many things that they were concerned about.
CUOMO: I take you at your word. Until I have better information, that's the state of play on this. I'm not going to play to any hype. We got--
STEWART: I wouldn't lie to you.
CUOMO: --we got enough problems that we know are real, and urgent, and happening right now.
STEWART: Right.
CUOMO: When we get more Intel on this, if I get it, I'll call you, and let you know. If you get it, I know you'll come on and make the case to the American people about what it means. No reason to make up fights.
Congressman Chris Stewart, thank you for being with us. God bless you and your family at home. Hopefully, you get COVID under control.
STEWART: All right, thank you.
CUOMO: Be well.
All right, now I know this video from Georgia. Again, I don't buy into this, "This may not be easy to watch. Don't watch if you don't want to." If you do not look at the reality in the face, of what is happening too often, in this country, with Black people and police, we're not going to get to a better place.
Please look at what happened.
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ANTONIO SMITH, SUING VALDOSTA, GEORGIA POLICE FOR EXCESSIVE FORCE: -- you doing. My hand! Oh Jesus! Oh my God! Oh please!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands.
SMITH: I wasn't--
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CUOMO: Now, a couple of things. You're going to hear that described as a training move, all right? Again, these officers are not doing things the way that they could do that they could be trained to do.
You got three officers, that's the way you have to control one man? And, by the way, wait until you learn more about what these police had every reason in Valdosta, Georgia, to know was going wrong in real- time, and yet, this still happened.
Antonio Smith is that man yelling. And you know why he's yelling? He's yelling because they hurt him bad, and he is still hurting. You know how I know?
Because as scared as he is, and as broken as he is, he's going to be on TV, right after this break, for the first time, because it matters that much that you know why this was wrong, and how he feels about it, next.
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[21:45:00]
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CUOMO: A Black man is suing several members of the Police Department in Valdosta, Georgia, after claims they fractured his wrist during a February arrest.
Antonio Smith says his rights were violated by officers, after they mistook him for another Black man, with active felony warrants, and used unnecessary and excessive force to detain him.
Here is a clip of what they did to him.
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SMITH: Call my sister in Florida. Don't - don't do this. What are you doing? Oh my God!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.
SMITH: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back like you're told.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands.
SMITH: What are you doing? Oh, Jesus. Oh my God! Oh, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands.
SMITH: I wasn't doing anything. Oh my God!
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CUOMO: Three cops! That was the only way to get him to comply? Three cops! You know why he is screaming like that? His wrist is broken, badly, and you'll see it for yourself.
Shortly after, another officer, who Smith was initially talking to, OK, they - this officer tells, I can't believe this happened, this officer, who is there, who was talking to Antonio Smith, after they do this to Smith, this other officer says to them "Hey, by the way, that's the wrong man." Listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that's the other guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other guy is over there. They pointed out two different people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They got the guy with the - with a warrant. This guy, I just got contact with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought this was one with a warrant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. That's why I was trying to - no, because there is two different people. That's why I was trying to figure out if I had missed something when you told him to put his hands behind his back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me tell you something. I thought he was the one with the warrant.
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CUOMO: Look, whether he was the one with the warrant, or he wasn't, they've got to be able to do their job better than this. We are better than this.
The Police Chief admits there was some miscommunication during radio traffic. Yes, no - no kidding!
Antonio Smith joins us now for an exclusive interview. He's joined by his Attorney, Nathaniel Haugabrook.
Counselor, thank you very much for being with us.
Antonio, we were talking a little bit about what you're dealing with, before the interview. Thank you for having the strength and commitment to do this, Antonio. I know you're scared. I know you're worried about this. I know you're embarrassed. I know you're in pain.
And just do me this one favor. Please hold up your left hand, and show it the way you were showing it to me.
All right, now everybody can see. You see that lump on the outside of his wrist? He broke his wrist. Antonio, was your wrist like that before this happened that day?
SMITH: No, it wasn't. Supposed to be just like this.
CUOMO: Right. All right. That was in February. He broke his wrist, and he broke his wrist because of the way they threw him on the ground.
Antonio, we pick up midstream there. You're on like the side of the road. What happened? How did you get in that situation? You can put your hand down. Thank you very much, my friend. What happened?
SMITH: Actually, I was coming - coming back from the store, waiting for my sister to send me some money, like she always do.
And I have a habit, because I do - I did security, like years ago, and I have a habit of like watching my surroundings and, you know, just talking to myself. And then I happened to look back, and I saw an officer car pull up.
I was like "Oh God, what have I done now? What are they doing now?"
[21:50:00]
So, you know, I just stood there, and he - the one that came out, which was a Black fellow, a Black officer, came up and, you know, he was kind of - all kind of like - looked like he was kind of like jittery like - like jumpy like "OK, where's the rest of them" but.
OK. So, I said "What's going on?" And I said "I haven't done anything. You can watch - go back and watch the camera," because I had already picked what they was - what was going on because they was watching me, and plus, I don't know what else were going about anyways.
He stopped me, and we did the procedure of the - the ID, and everything. And all the sudden, all of a sudden--
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SMITH: Just view that camera. They told - I told them what I was doing.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --next to the over there.
SMITH: I told them what I was doing. I was waiting for--
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SMITH: Pretty much, Chris.
CUOMO: So, you're - you're saying to him, "I was waiting for money from my sister. I wasn't panhandling. I wasn't doing anything wrong."
SMITH: Yes, I did.
CUOMO: And then you give him your ID. Then what happens?
SMITH: So, he runs it down. So, all of a sudden, I happened to glare back, and I saw a couple more running, I don't know how it went, but a couple more running, and I kind of got terrified.
I said - said to myself, "Oh my God, it's one of these days, where they're going to probably arrest me, and take me often, probably won't find me anymore."
That's - that's the thoughts that I had because I know how the cops, the law system there is that the times that I have called, and needed them, and the last that they gave me, and the situations that I was going through.
So, at that time, I thought "Well maybe this is one of the moments, where they arrest me, and they take me off, and they won't find me." That's the moment that I portrayed at that time but.
CUOMO: So - so, right or wrong, you were scared, of what--
SMITH: Yes, I was scared. CUOMO: --was going to happen.
SMITH: I was scared, yes.
CUOMO: And when they told you "Put your hands behind your back," we all know, when the officers tell you something, you're supposed to do it.
SMITH: Yes. But I was--
CUOMO: You didn't do it, because?
SMITH: I was like in shock because what have I done. I knew I hadn't done anything. So, I was more in shock, and like what is going on, and why is this going on, because I know I haven't done anything.
And the - these procedures just wasn't right. If you get me - the - the procedures wasn't right. And everything wasn't just like was it - like what it's supposed to be because I know I hadn't done anything.
CUOMO: Yes. The - in reading your account of this, it seems to me, tell me if I'm wrong, please, don't worry about it being on TV, we want to get things straight, that you seemed like the more - the farther down the road this went, the worse it was going to get for you.
And that's why you were a little resistant to comply in the beginning because you felt, once you did that, it was only going to get worse. Is that true?
SMITH: Yes. It kind of felt like it was going to get worse. Well I thought I was going to get pinned for something that I didn't do. It was one of those moments where "OK, something is going down that I'm going to get stuck with that I hadn't even done."
CUOMO: Right.
SMITH: So, it's pretty much what you're thinking--
CUOMO: And then the officer comes up and says, "Hey, by the way, it's the other guy, who's got the felony warrant."
SMITH: And I was like "Oh, please!"
CUOMO: And the cop is like "Oh boy, oh, I thought it was him, Jeez!"
SMITH: Yes.
CUOMO: Then how did they change toward you, after that?
SMITH: Actually, I have - forgave them, when they done it. But walking up the road, and far away from home, the pain just insists, and like getting like worse and worse, and I was like--
CUOMO: Well but didn't they know about your wrist? Didn't they offer to get you medical treatment, or take you to the hospital? SMITH: Yes. I didn't know that it was going to be broken or either. I thought I was going to be able to go through it. But I thought maybe - "Hey, maybe it's just sprung or whatever" but.
CUOMO: So, they offered to get you help, and you said you didn't want it?
SMITH: No. They wanted to give me help. They wanted to give me a ride to the hospital. They offered me help to go - get to the hospital.
CUOMO: Good.
SMITH: But I told them, maybe it's just a little sprung or something like that, you know. Well I thought maybe it was sprung. You know what I'm saying? So they weren't--
CUOMO: Did they apologize?
SMITH: Yes. Yes, they apologized. But I told them "I forgive you." We laughed about it actually.
CUOMO: Well if you forgave them. But now, you're going to sue, why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tony, let your lawyer answer it.
SMITH: I'll let my lawyer answer that.
CUOMO: Go ahead. Go ahead. Counselor, obviously forgiveness and getting legal remedies can go hand in hand. I don't mean to suggest otherwise. But the - what is your legal take on the situation from your client's perspective?
NATHANIEL HAUGABROOK, ATTORNEY FOR ANTONIO SMITH: Well, from his perspective, as you've characterized this, Chris, this officer basically sneaks up on my client, then dumps him to the ground, and, as the video shows, it's the wrong person.
[21:55:00]
There was no reason for this particular officer to even esc - to make the - to cause the case or this situation to escalate to the point that it did.
The first officer, as the video shows, is having a pretty normal conversation with Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith complied with all of his directives, provided his ID, denied the situation of being the suspicious person.
And all of a sudden you have another officer who comes on the scene, and just takes over.
CUOMO: Right.
HAUGABROOK: He doesn't identify himself as an officer. Doesn't say "Hey, what's going on? Is this the person with the felony warrants?" which - and let me correct that part, because there were no felony warrants against anyone.
The other gentlemen had misdemeanor warrants for shoplifting.
CUOMO: Understood.
HAUGABROOK: As well as traffic offenses.
CUOMO: Understood. Whatever it was, it didn't belong on the record of your client, Antonio Smith. Counselor, I get it.
HAUGABROOK: It did not.
CUOMO: I get it. I understand. I wanted everybody else to understand it as well.
Antonio, I know you forgive them. But I also know that you are still very much haunted by what happened. We will stay on the story. And I appreciate you having the bravery to come forward and talk to us about it. And it is a really big tribute to who you are, as a person that you forgave the officers for what happened that day.
Counselor, thank you. And Antonio, thank you, your sister as well, for helping us tonight. Be well and God bless.
HAUGABROOK: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: All right. We'll be right back.
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