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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump Finally Accepts Importance Of Masks, Says "I'm All For Masks"; CEO Suing Arizona Governor Over Gym Closure; Seattle Police Clear "Autonomous Zone". Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 01, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: --from its pedestal. It's what you are watching there. And it stood there, for more than a 100 years.
This, on the very same day, a State law took effect, giving localities the ability to remove or alter Confederate monuments in their communities, if they followed a series of steps, things like a waiting period.
The Republican Party of Virginia, however, called the Democratic Mayor's actions an "Illegal stunt."
It's time now to hand it over to Chris Cuomo for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris, it's all yours.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you, Jimmy. Appreciate it, always a pleasure to see you, brother.
I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
"Let's get after it" now applies to the President of These United States.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm all for masks. I think masks are good. I would wear if I were in a group of people and I was close.
BLAKE BURMAN, FOX BUSINESS WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: You would wear one?
TRUMP: Oh, I would, I would. Oh, I have. I mean, people have seen me wearing one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: I guess he realized he really is what he put out on Instagram today, "The Lone Warrior!" He was bragging about this. But this is only when it comes to mocking masks, one of the only tools we have to fight off a pandemic.
But don't ask for too much too soon. His reasoning for wearing a mask is still very Trumpy.
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TRUMP: Actually, I had a mask on. I sort of liked the way I looked, OK? I thought it was OK. It was a dark, black mask, and I thought it looked OK. Looked like The Lone Ranger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: His mask was over his eyes. Make sure you put this one over your mouth.
Now, I've never seen this picture that the President talks about of him with a black mask. But maybe he is confusing himself in that picture with this picture of Joe Biden wearing a black mask. This was on Memorial Day.
It was mocked by "Trumpet" Brit Hume over at State TV because they were making a joke of COVID, as you'll recall. And naturally, Trump had to retweet it. Maybe now he wants to resemble what's beating him in the polls.
The Lone Warrior indeed, the last holdout in joining the fight. Don't forget what has been spilling out of the face of this President about this pandemic before he agreed to cover it with a mask, at least sometimes.
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TRUMP: I don't think I'm going to be doing it.
Wearing a face mask, as I greet Presidents, Prime Ministers, Dictators, Kings, Queens, I don't know, somehow I don't see it for myself.
Well I did wear. I had one on before. I wore one in this back area. But I didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it.
Here is my - here is my mask right here. And I liked it very much. I actually, honestly, I think I look better in the mask. I really did. I look better in the mask.
Can you take it up, because I cannot hear you?
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: I'll just speak louder, Sir.
TRUMP: Oh, OK, good, you want to be politically correct. Go ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Politically correct! We'll take any kind of correct out of this President.
The man called himself a "Wartime President." What Wartime President ever failed like this? He has his Generals begging for a national strategy. He won't provide one. He won't even let them do it.
And while he did take a step, by saying "Yes, masks, yes," he still doesn't get it. He says "Well if people feel good about it, they should do it." That's how a Wartime President speaks? "If you feel like fighting the enemy, yes, then you should."
What happened to either you're with us or you're against us?
Wash your hands, socially distance, and if you can't, wear a mask, period! If we don't all do these three things, where cases are climbing, we won't win any time soon.
That is the message, not this.
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TRUMP: I think we're going be very good with the Coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear, I hope.
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CUOMO: Disappear? I hear it - look, be clear. This change in talk was forced on a man who was determined to deceive about this. Despite the science, despite appeals, from the team he says is the best, he persisted in this piffle.
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TRUMP: By April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.
When you have 15 people, and the 15, within a couple of days, is going to be down to close to zero.
It's going to disappear one day. It's like a miracle, it will disappear.
This is going to go away without a vaccine. It's going to go away. And it's - we're not going see it again, hopefully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: May, that was.
You want hope? Stop saying the wrong things, and stop your team from doing the wrong things, like this, ordering the removal of stickers warning people to be socially distant in that Tulsa arena.
Look at them taking away the stickers.
(VIDEO - PEOPLE REMOVING SOCIAL-DISTANCE STICKERS AT TULSA RALLY ARENA)
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CUOMO: This is who he is, and what his team is about. Now, he sees his allies wearing masks, and the numbers look so bleak, he has decided to follow because he has failed to lead.
And you know how soon we'll see the truth of this conversion? This weekend, Friday.
If you want to lead us out of this, tell the South Dakota Governor to stop ignoring social distancing in the name of your Mount Rushmore Fourth of July weekend photo-op. Thousands are expected to attend.
The men on that Mountain, Washington, Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln, none would have handled a crisis, like you have so far. You want to be in their presence? Why not act more in their image, when it comes to how to lead in hard times?
Instead of not funding the military, so you can protect the names of bases, for traitors and bigots, focus on using the military and other tools to fight this pandemic. You need to tell us what we're doing as a country.
Stop waking up and tweeting about the media, and tweet about the numbers of people in the hospital, the dead. No one needs your take on why CNN is doing so well. We need you to empower this country to get well, because your lack of leadership is making us sick.
Let's get the facts, and let's get our future, if things don't change, by bringing in the Chief Doctor, Sanjay Gupta.
Good to have you, my brother. When you look at the numbers, month- over-month--
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris.
CUOMO: --you're getting a story of acceleration. What do you see and why do you think we're seeing it?
GUPTA: Well, I mean the virus is a contagious virus, and it's getting out of control, Chris. There has not been a national leadership, there has not been a national strategy, to handle this.
There has not been clear, concise, scientific, evidence-based recommendations, such as this, Chris. If your State's going up in numbers for five days in a row, you need to go into some sort of stay- at-home mode again. You can't come out of that stay-at-home mode again until you're going down 14 days in a row.
The goal is to get to one case per million people in the United States. That's the definition of containment per day.
CUOMO: "You'll kill business. You'll kill liberty."
GUPTA: 350 people - 350 - but the thing about it is, right now, you're getting into a situation where too many people are getting the infection, getting hospitalized, and society is going to shut down, I think, as a result of that.
But anyways, five days in a row, upward, 14 days downward, before you can reopen the goal is one in a million people per day. That's 350 people per day. It can be done. It's been done in most countries around the world.
I would empower scientists, and I would want to hear from folks at the CDC, who are arguably the world's best epidemiologists and infectious disease doctors every day, about the plan, how things are going, and this would need to happen for a period of weeks, probably Chris.
CUOMO: Have them out there.
GUPTA: Not months, if we--
CUOMO: Have them on every show, everywhere, talking about the numbers, talking about the protocols, talking about the progress, where it is, and why it is. That's how you get a country on board.
What we have is slippage in the other direction, people finding ways to accommodate the fatigue of waiting. Airlines, the eliminating the middle seat thing--
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: --you wanted to talk about that. Why?
GUPTA: Well, this is profits over people. You know, I mean this is - this is basically what it is. I spent time with Delta Air Lines, who is still keeping the middle seat, sort of, empty policy.
But, you know, the airlines are getting crushed, understandably, from what's happened, and now they want to start getting people back in the air.
The problem is that you're now flying from communities, anywhere basically in the country, just about, where you've got significant spread of the virus. You know, you may have been able to do this, a while ago, where there were communities where you could be pretty reasonably sure you hadn't been exposed.
Now just about anywhere you go, in public, in most states around the country, you would likely be someone who might be considered a contact of someone infected with COVID. That's how much virus there is out there in the environment now. So, it's very hard to then put people on planes, and possibly few will even more spread. I get it.
And you asked the question right off the bat, you know, how do you balance public health with the economy? I think you can't do one without the other. You know, public health has to lead the way here, and it doesn't have to be forever.
CUOMO: Well we were right early on.
GUPTA: I mean, look at countries around the world.
CUOMO: You guys were speculating that if you want the economy to come back, you got to stimulate - stimulate demand. And if the consumer doesn't feel confident, opening up won't be enough. That's exactly--
GUPTA: That's right. CUOMO: --what we're seeing.
Now interestingly, there are two points of resistance. One is there are people, especially in the Trump base, who believe this is all politics, and it's done to hurt Trump. And you'll see, after the election it will be gone.
Now, first of all, they could be right, but for the wrong reason, which is after the election in November, hopefully, we will see some kind of mass effort to have numbers go down.
But if we can put up, Vaughn, put up where we are now versus a month ago, on June 1st, and you look at the top five states with the most new cases, California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, Georgia.
[21:10:00]
The Texas Governor, the Florida Governor, the Georgia Governor, the Arizona Governor, these people have no reason to fake the funk when it comes to making Trump look bad by imagining a virus. This is all too real. Red, Blue, and otherwise, this virus is attacking everywhere.
GUPTA: Yes, I mean the virus doesn't discriminate. It doesn't respect borders. It will go wherever it wants. It's the one constant probably in this whole equation.
And the thing about it is, Chris, you know, I would concede this point. Nobody knew everything about this virus in the very beginning, right? It's a novel Coronavirus. So, people were trying to put it in the box.
CUOMO: We got a late start.
GUPTA: Yes. We got a late start. But people were putting it in a box. Is this going to behave more like SARS and other Coronavirus? Is it going to behave more like H1N1, the previous pandemic? We didn't know for sure.
But I can tell you this, by middle of February, certainly, early February, late January, we had a pretty good idea that this was a significant problem.
I interviewed the Head of the CDC, in the middle of February, who said, "Look, there is no way this is going away. This is endemic now. It's going to be here for the foreseeable future, for years to come," is what he said.
So why, at the end of June, are we still saying that maybe this is going to go away? That's not so much a criticism, as an acknowledgement that that just puts us in--
CUOMO: There is no "We" though, Sanjay.
GUPTA: --in the wrong direction.
CUOMO: There is no "We." GUPTA: We're going backwards.
CUOMO: One man is saying it. You're not hearing anybody in the Task Force say "It will disappear, just give it time."
GUPTA: That's right.
CUOMO: It's just the President. And remember, the marked difference, you know, you're no politician. You're not a political analyst. I keep you out of this. So, I'll say it.
But the difference was between a Fauci, or an Azar, and a Trump was that they were all slow on this. And they all didn't see it the way it was. But the principle was "If the facts on the ground change, I will change my disposition of urgency." Then the facts changed.
GUPTA: Right.
CUOMO: Fauci went into panic mode. Azar went into panic mode. Not Trump, because two of those three men did not see the growth of this pandemic as bad for them, personally. Trump did. And he's held on to it until just now, kind of.
GUPTA: We've - it's been minimized in this country. I think that's the Occam's razor. That's the unifying theory behind all this.
We didn't test enough, something you beat the drum on quite early. Still where we are with masks, we can't possibly contact trace. States did not meet the "Gating criteria" because no one thought this was as serious as it was.
And again, I think that point needs to be conceded that in the beginning everyone was still trying to figure this out, how bad would this be.
You remember, Chris, SARS ultimately affected 8,000 people around the world. 800 people died. 10 percent fatality rate, but not that many people were affected. H1N1 infected 60 million people in this country within the first year, but had a really low fatality rate.
This one fell somewhere in between. It's very contagious, and it has a much higher fatality rate than H1N1. So, here we are, and we've known this for some time, early February, probably.
So, what has happened over the last several months? That's going to be the question. But going forward, I think it's pretty clear what we need to do.
CUOMO: Now, hopefully, it's clear to our President. And I think, look, I think what may be getting through to him is this could beat you in the election. This kind of horrible response could beat you.
And if you want the economy, to save this country, you have to get people confident to go back out, and be safe, and start using and spending and existing. And until they get that, so you have to do the medical first before the economic, everyone has been saying it. Hopefully, he gets it.
We'll see with what he says to this Governor about Friday night.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: If he doesn't tell this Governor to socially distance that, we've got problems.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, you are part of the answer. Thank you very much.
GUPTA: You got it, Chris.
CUOMO: Arizona, one of those states I mentioned, reporting record numbers of Coronavirus. They would not be making it up, OK, in that State. They're not here to hurt Trump. They're here to get better.
It's not stopping some, though, from being upset about what is happening in that State to control the virus. I have somebody who is a local gym owner, OK? He is going to defy the Governor's order to stay closed. Why?
He makes his case to you, next.
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CUOMO: Little context for the level of concern we should have.
Do you remember, in Italy, when doctors had to start triaging which COVID patients to dedicate limited resource to? Remember the resource scare they had there and trying to figure out which ones to save? And we all reacted with shock how could a modern country be in this situation?
Hospitals are doing that right now in Arizona. The State just set a record for new cases and deaths. Hospitals are filling up fast. The fight continues over what businesses can open.
Now, Tom Hatten is CEO of Mountainside Fitness. He is suing Arizona's Governor over the decision to close gyms.
Mr. Hatten, welcome to PRIME TIME. I make no secret I am biased in favor of gyms. I think it was fundamental to my scant ability to get through Coronavirus was the fact that I was somewhat physically fit.
I have friends and associates who are in the gym business. They are outraged, in New York, that they haven't been able to open. They're worried it won't happen. I get it.
But in light of what's happening in your State, why do you feel the need to sue the State to open a business that carries a lot of risk?
TOM HATTEN, CEO & FOUNDER, MOUNTAINSIDE FITNESS: Actually, you know, it's exactly - thanks for having me on, Chris. It's kind of exactly what you just stated there because two reasons.
One is what fitness means to people, just in general, for their own mental and, certainly, their physical health to stay strong against any virus.
But it was really more the decision of how this came down in the way we are approaching what you just said regarding record numbers here in Arizona. We were all in when the first shutdown happened on March 18th, and we were closed for two months.
And we did everything we could, to be a leader in this State, donating money to the Arizona COVID relief fund. We were one of the sites for antibody testing. We donated wipes to Banner Hospital.
We worked with the Governor's Office on all the protocols to be open when we were open.
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So, to have this decision come down, with really no notice, on Monday, at 3 o'clock, telling us that we were one of the three businesses that were going to have to close at 8 o'clock, we just felt that was an arbitrary ruling, and that we didn't feel like that was fair, compared to all the rulings that happened back, in March, and everybody having a mandate to shut down.
CUOMO: So, there may be some issue in terms of notice and timing.
The counter is going to be - I know you know this, but for the edification of the audience, they're going say "When it comes to what is risky, gyms are way up there. Everybody is touching everything. They're breathing heavily during exercise, which exacerbates the chance of transmission."
HATTEN: Right.
CUOMO: "They're not wearing masks. And as much as we want to do it, it's probably one of the worst things we could be doing in terms of transmission."
How do you get past that?
HATTEN: Well, you know, it's hard. It's definitely a valid point. Here is the other - here is the counterpoint to that is that we have the ability to control social distancing in the facility. I can pull down every other treadmill. I can actually put you in a
certain spot in a cycle class or a group fitness room, and we can socially distance you on the floor. Not only that, I can control the cleaning. Members have access to the wipes and we have access to the wipes.
But when I walk into Home Depot, I can't be controlled on the social distancing, when you and I, Chris, walk down the aisle, you like that shovel, you touch it. You walk away. I walk up. I touch that shovel. I grab it. Nobody is cleaning in between that.
And that's kind of how we feel in general to the overall mentality of fitness.
Yes, people are there. But we're able to control it a little bit more than most of the businesses that are currently open. This decision didn't allow all businesses to close. It just said "We don't think this one should be open."
CUOMO: But it was based on risk criteria, not, you know, targeting Tom - Tom Hatten. And I mean, look, we're showing B-roll.
HATTEN: No, absolutely right.
CUOMO: We're showing B-roll.
You can put it back up. It's more interesting than my face. Hatten is a good-looking guy, but cover me.
We have B-roll of one of your gyms. And look, it looks like a typical nice gym. But nobody's got masks on. Everybody is grabbing weights. There is a worker walking around, cleaning things.
HATTEN: Yes.
CUOMO: But she's using the same rag on different pieces of equipment. She has a mask on.
HATTEN: Right.
CUOMO: But the - the people working out don't. And on the wall, interestingly, is a slogan, "Effort is your responsibility."
HATTEN: Yes.
CUOMO: Now, how does that slogan apply to you, Tom, in terms of I know this sucks. And I know that they have relief to try to help businesses stay alive.
HATTEN: Yes.
CUOMO: And I know that this is hard. We've seen the casualties.
HATTEN: Right.
CUOMO: But isn't the effort-- HATTEN: Yes.
CUOMO: --to keep people safe, your responsibility, and a gym is just too big a risk in a place with cases going crazy?
HATTEN: Absolutely. You know, you know, where I look at it is the effort is the responsibility of leadership. If the epidemic - the pandemic is at this level, then everybody needs to close.
Waking up one morning, and deciding, "I'm going to close the Salt River for Tubing" or "I'm going to close movie theaters that were currently closed," and "I'm going to decide to close fitness centers," which were only open for 30 days, "But I'm not going close all these other types of businesses where there is gathering, where there is touching, where there isn't face masks," we felt was arbitrary.
I agree with the worry of the pandemic, certainly. But the decision to just pick out these businesses, we felt was arbitrary. I feel we need to close everything down at this point.
CUOMO: But that's not what you're asking for. You're asking to stay open.
HATTEN: That's right. If this decision, in this arbitrary fashion stays like this, we're saying we don't think that's fair. And in Arizona Constitution, there is laws against that. So, we're - that's what we're asking for a stay. We're asking the court to look at that.
If Governor Ducey wants to take a look at the whole State, in general, I'm all for that, just not the arbitrary decision, because it could be any business tomorrow. It could be the next business that he might decide arbitrarily should be closed.
CUOMO: The worst thing you have going for you in the litigation, or at least, you know, the argument that you have to make to government is you're staying open. So, they told you to be closed. You're saying that you're responsible, and you care--
HATTEN: Right.
CUOMO: --but you're doing something that they've told you is risky. Now, we have seen a pattern around the country that when you mess with the man, you lose on these rules. And that--
HATTEN: Yes.
CUOMO: --if you sue, the businesses tend to lose, and then they get shut down, and you're going to have more expenses because of the litigation. Is this worth the risk?
And are you worried about the message you're sending, by staying open, when they say "It's in the public health interest for you to be closed?"
HATTEN: Well, I think it's more important what the message we're sending about the decision the Governor made in the arbitrary fashion that he did it.
I think that trumps, so to speak, maybe a bad term right now, but trumps the reasoning for why we're down, because it looks like it's just been singled out. So, it's a tough deal.
But we feel like the cause is greater. It's bigger than just this particular business. This left Mountainside a while ago, in terms of the mentality of what's going on in the dealing with the pandemic, and the decision-making process with it.
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CUOMO: Well, again, you know, we had the B-roll up there. You got people's working out. That's great. They don't have masks. They're touching the same things. You have a tough case to make.
But I wanted to give you the chance to make it on here. And again--
HATTEN: I appreciate it.
CUOMO: --I'm sympathetic to the cause, brother.
HATTEN: Yes. Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: There are a lot of businesses out there that are dying. And that's not what America is about.
HATTEN: Thank you.
CUOMO: This is about small business thriving. I wish you well.
HATTEN: Thanks, Chris. I appreciate the time.
CUOMO: All right, thank you, Sir, Tom Hatten.
Arizona, case - the State's getting banged up there. There are a lot of lawsuits, like this, all over the country. It is a hard balance.
And we saw what the President did. He decided to ignore the pandemic. Did that really make things better? Hard to make the case because now places are shutting down again and it's going take even longer.
Another story, Russia. Look, the fact that they're trying to mess with us is news to no one. They're trying to meddle in the election again, just like they did four years ago. But we were supposed to learn from that, right?
So, tell me this. Why did Congress turn the pandemic, sneaky, sneaky, just attempt to stand up for election security, right? That's what they're supposed to do. Why did that effort just die barely four months before the Election Day?
Did you hear what happened? I'll fill you in, next.
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CUOMO: Did you hear about this? A measure that would require Presidential campaigns to report any attempts by foreign nationals to interfere in the contest was removed from a Senate Intelligence bill this week.
Senator Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Intel Committee says Republicans forced its removal as a condition to pass a larger piece of legislation and the National Defense Authorization Act.
That's the must-pass bill that authorizes defense spending, you know, the one Trump wants to hold up for another reason, namely, to save the names of Confederate Generals on military bases. Yes, he wants to hold up funding to save them.
The election reporting provision, of course, was a response to Russia's election interference in 2016. Bob Mueller found the Trump Campaign welcomed the help of Russian agents.
Warner blasts the removal as a backroom deal. He is vowing to offer it up as an amendment. Now that would put every member on record about where they stand on this issue.
I would like to know who's against securing this election. Wouldn't you?
Wonder why Republicans would be against something like this. Hmm! Maybe this.
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TRUMP: If somebody called from a country, Norway, "We have information on your opponent," oh, I think I'd want to hear it.
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CUOMO: Wonder why so many of you are sick of politicians and politics. Marco Rubio is the Senior Republican on that panel.
What do you think of this, Senator Rubio? I'll give you as much time as you want. Come on the show. Make the case that we don't need to know what foreign agents want to interfere in our Presidential Election. As much time as you want. Now, next story. Seattle Police have cleared the Police-free CHOP zone, after a three-week standoff, or Summer of Love, if you want to take it from the Mayor's perspective there. The Trump Administration claims "This is liberation from anarchists."
What does the Seattle Police Chief say about it? She is with us next.
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CUOMO: President Trump is now taking credit for dismantling the so- called anarchy in Seattle's CHOP zone.
Seattle Police moved in on the Capitol Hill Organized Protest area, that's CHOP, today, taking it down early this morning.
We've shown you how the site was taken over by protests after the death of George Floyd. But after days of peace, there were two deadly shootings in that area, led the Mayor to issue an Emergency Order declaring CHOP an "Unlawful assembly."
The Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best joins us now.
Chief, good to see you again. Did the President have anything to do with your decision?
Chief, can you hear me?
CHIEF CARMEN BEST, SEATTLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: There you are. No, I could not hear you. I can hear you now.
CUOMO: I was like "Boy! This Chief sure is thinking hard about a simple question." I said - it's good - I said did the President have anything to do with what happened in Seattle today?
BEST: You know, the - what happened in Seattle today was the effort of many of us coming together, recognizing that the unlawful behavior that was continuing to devolve in the area, known as the Capitol Hill Organized Protest, had to stop.
And we came together as an organization. We developed a plan. Under the authority of the Mayor, entering her proclamation, we were able to move in tactically, and move people out of the area. CUOMO: With the benefit of hindsight, why isn't this event - set of events today just proof that "This was always a mistake. This was never going to be a Summer of Love." You had people there, who had no business being in control of an area, and it was always going to go bad.
Why let it happen at all?
BEST: Well, you know, Chris, we really respect people's First Amendment right to free speech and to assemble.
You know, this was coming on the heels of many, many demonstrations regarding Black Lives Matter, and of course, as - that was the result of the murder of George Floyd. Folks occupied the area.
Initially, the first days were relatively peaceful. But that situation over time devolved to the point that, at some point, officers and firefighters were not able to enter the area without extreme resistance and people attacking them. So, it became very lawless.
As you pointed out, we had two murders, a 19-year-old and a 16-year- old murdered in the area, multiple shootings, gunshots, rape, robbery, assault, and arson.
So, we needed to develop a plan. We needed to move in and we needed to take order. And, that way, we could actually provide the services that we are required to, to the people who reside and work in that area.
CUOMO: God forbid there is cause for that type of outrage on the streets again.
Now that you went through this once, would you allow police to abandon a precinct? And would you allow people to overtake a zone like that again, if God forbid something sends people that angry into the streets again?
BEST: Well, you know, people going through the streets, is not the issue here. It's the unlawful and brutal behavior that we saw occurring, you know, people exploiting the situation.
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In terms of the precinct, it was never our intent, and I have to repeat this to not enter back into the precinct, but the situation had devolved as such that we weren't able to re-enter the facility.
So, once we were able to get control of the area, we're now in the precinct. We've gone through and checked it for any, you know, booby traps or other things that might have been set, and we are restoring order and getting back to business as usual.
CUOMO: Is there any chance that the Police Force is going to be defunded in Seattle?
BEST: Depending upon who you talk to there is a lot of definitions about what defunding means. For us, we are taking this as an opportunity to re-envision how we move forward.
It's very clear that we are going to be looking at involving community much more in how our services are provided, and what services are provided. So, that isn't necessarily a bad thing for us to re-examine what we're doing.
We envision what policing look likes moving forward. We've done a good job in Seattle. We are under consent decree.
We have great de-escalation, crisis intervention, training, many of the practices that are being called for under reform, we've already done them. So now, it's time for us to look at how we utilize those practices and also make our agency better.
CUOMO: I've always found you to be a very interesting aspect of this dynamic, Chief, not just because you do your job well, but because you check a lot of boxes. You bleed blue, but you're a Black woman and you're a mother. And that's--
BEST: Yes.
CUOMO: --that puts a lot of irons in the fire here.
You know, the President said, in response to the idea of Black Lives Matter being painted around New York City, as a reminder of the effort for social change, that BLM is a "Symbol of hate."
What do you think of that?
BEST: Well, you know, I don't like to get in political quips and involve myself in politics.
I will tell you that I do believe that it's very important that we look at systemic racism, across all genres, and all areas of our society. That includes criminal justice, healthcare and education. You know, the data and the stats don't lie.
We know that people of color, and Black people, specifically, are disadvantaged in many of those areas. So, we should be looking at how we're going to make sure we have equity and equality for every person who lives, works, and resides in this country, and certainly in the City of Seattle.
CUOMO: Chief, you're not a politician. You're doing the job there. You were put in a bad spot.
And I've always interviewed the Mayor differently than I interview you about what's going on there. I'm glad to see that this was done basically safely. I'm sure a lot of videotape is going to come out. And, if any demands accountability--
BEST: Yes.
CUOMO: --I'll ask you back on the show. Chief Carmen Best, I look forward to seeing where your City winds up after all of this.
BEST: Great, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
CUOMO: Stay healthy. Stay well. And thank you.
BEST: Thanks.
CUOMO: Florida's Governor taking a lot of heat. Why? Well, leaving the decision on masks up to local leaders, but he'd kind of tied their hands, and he won't make it mandatory, where it's necessary in the State.
So, the City of Jacksonville stepped forward in a big way, mandating masks ahead of the GOP Convention in August. But what does that mean for the Convention?
We have a local leader. What does he think? What is it going to look like in Florida? Next.
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CUOMO: Governor DeSantis can spin it any way he wants. But the facts tell a different story. Things in Florida are bad. New infections climbing, higher there than anywhere else in the country, more than 6,500 new cases today.
Hospitals are getting so overrun in Miami, a group of hospitals says it's running out of the antiviral drug Remdesivir. Remember that? In extreme cases, where people are hospitalized, that is a drug that has shown promise in helping treat COVID.
Now, knowing all that, why are Republicans insisting on hosting their Convention there next month? They handpicked the City of Jacksonville, one of the worst hotspots in the State.
Now, just hours ago, Jacksonville's Mayor declared a public health emergency in the City. Hundreds of local doctors signed a letter calling it "Medically disrespectful" for the Convention to go on.
Joining us now is the President of the Jacksonville City Council, Tommy Hazouri.
Tommy, you were Mayor there as well. You understand the politics on both levels. TOMMY HAZOURI, (D) JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT: I do.
CUOMO: Thank you for joining us. Hopefully, your health, and the health of your family, and loved ones, is intact. Everybody OK?
HAZOURI: Thank you, Chris, yes.
And you know what? I want - before I go any further, I want to congratulate you for getting through, you and your son, one of your sons, and your wife, for getting through this Coronavirus, and Baldwin too, Brooke, the same way. And God bless you all for making it through.
I think everybody knows that the virus knows no friends, and it is devastating. And, as you said, it's hit Florida hard now.
CUOMO: Thank you very much. I mean certainly part of the concern. You know, you've got to do the job. But I don't want to see anybody go through what I had to go through, and especially unnecessarily.
Now, as we both know, Jacksonville was picked because the President didn't want to deal with any restrictions in North Carolina. So now, he is going to come into Jacksonville with the Convention.
You just passed, as a municipality, the mask rule. We'll see if this newfound sense of fact and science, of the President, that he respects masks, all the sudden, holds.
But what do you think about holding the Convention in Jacksonville?
HAZOURI: Well, to be clear, I'm a Democrat. I was a Democratic Mayor. Democrat - first Democrat in 20 years to be the President of this Jacksonville City Council. My first day was today, really officially.
But, you know, whether it's a Democratic Convention or the Republican Convention, we have to - we have to take cautionary measures.
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And some of the Mayor's staff is saying "We've got 60 days before the Convention. We'll know more about whether we have mandatory masks or not, and some other precautions in the next 30 days."
But then, we'll - probably we'll be at a point of no return. Am I happy about it coming, from an economic standpoint whatever impact it has on all those stores, restaurants? The hotels, that have been closed down basically, for the past several months, are now open again.
But it goes beyond that. It's a three-legged table. You still got the devastation of the - of the virus. And it's picked up here. We were flat. And now, picked up where we're on top of the heap. And Florida, of course, is number one.
And then, as well as potential for the "Peaceful protests," well, you know, I pray to God that it will be peaceful. And all things being equal, we'll have no virus, no violence in our protests, and the virus will go away. But that's praying for America.
CUOMO: You know the expression "If if and buts - ifs and buts were cherries and nuts, we'd all have a beautiful Christmas." I mean that's--
HAZOURI: Yes.
CUOMO: --a lot of conditions you're putting on it there. And look, the virus, if anything, is going to bring people together.
I'm shocked that we've stayed as divided along partisan lines, in the face of this. I would have never thought that wearing a mask would become a political statement. But that's where we are.
HAZOURI: You should--
CUOMO: And are you concerned--
HAZOURI: --you should see the emails I get. Yes?
CUOMO: I'm sure. I'm sure. You should see the emails I get. I'll trade e-mails with anybody.
HAZOURI: "Constitutional violation."
CUOMO: At any time.
HAZOURI: You know, I have a - we have a right to, you know, as I say in the - in the - in independence of our right to have a, I guess, you know, to be happy, to spirit of happiness, and we're not there.
We're not - you know, it's not a violation. It's about - it's personal - it's a personal issue with me and everyone else that you have to take personal responsibility, and that's why we did the mandate today, why the Mayor did.
CUOMO: Yes. But look, I mean--
HAZOURI: And but I would--
CUOMO: --you know, and by the way, congratulations on today being your first day.
HAZOURI: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: You know, a leader always wants to be challenged. And you're certainly going to have that.
You know, the analysis that gets spun here, that is faulty, is the idea of "You shouldn't be telling me what to do. I'll make choices for myself.
You know, you people in government always reaching out, trying to tell me how to live my life. Just spend my money more effectively. Don't cheat and get out of Office. And that's all I want from you."
But what they're forgetting in the analysis is you don't wear a mask for you. You wear a mask for what you do to somebody else.
And that's where they're missing the analysis of a right versus a privilege. Your right to do what you want with yourself, and your activities, ends when it starts to encroach on my right, or somebody else's right, to do the same.
But, you know, a lot of this is understandable because of what your Governor is saying. Your Governor has been playing the game of--
HAZOURI: Yes.
CUOMO: --you know, "The rest of the country is a bunch of scaredy- cats. We don't need masks as a mandate. We're going to be fine. Stick it in the face of the media."
And that nonchalance could not have helped you, let alone with beaches being closed in some places, and opened in others, a spring break that went crazy. I mean, how much of this is on his plate?
HAZOURI: Exactly. You know, when I was referring to it, I guess this kind of slipped my mind of what I was thinking. But the pursuit of happiness, happiness for me is staying virus-free. And it should be for others.
And but those who write me, and sent e-mails, all the Council Members saying "It's our constitutional right, hands off. Government is overstepping their bounds" well, you know, I say "Bump that."
Because the thing is, quite frankly, is that they are, as you said, Chris, that they are jeopardizing other people what - and by not wearing a mask, they put everyone else at risk.
It's, and as far as what the Governor has done, both the Mayor, our Mayor, both Republicans, well both of them, have really taken steps in a measurable way. And the next step was the mandate.
Now, whether or not the people adhere to that mandate, then the next step would be like Miami, and some of the other South Florida cities, whether we go to some kind of a penalties in our code - code and, if we - if we do that, then the people aren't really listening.
And as far as the Convention coming here, it's shock and awe. You know, I give all the credit in the world to Governor Cooper for what he did. At least, he wanted six feet distance and he wanted social distance.
CUOMO: Right.
HAZOURI: And we're not even at that point.
And in Tulsa, where they tore down the signs, telling them to keep their distance, you know, that's not going to happen here. The Council hasn't taken a position yet because we really don't get any information from the Administration on what they're doing, what their plans are. But at some point--
CUOMO: Well that's - that's my point is that you've said DeSantis is taking measured steps. Yes, to make the President happy.
And you think that he's not going to let that Convention come to Jacksonville, and that he's going to let local government put restrictions on it, that the President doesn't want?
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If the President is not asking for the restrictions, you don't think the Governor is going to come in and squash you and say "I'm taking away your ability"?
HAZOURI: Exactly. And I think the Mayor is going to try to be cautionary about it. But, I think, at some point, it's going to be "The devil be damned and full steam ahead." And that's when the Council will have to make a hard decision, not necessarily to stop it.
You know, we don't want to stop the economy. We don't want to do all these other things that some cities and states are doing. But the thing is this is about our lives. It's about our health.
Our primary duty, as a government, is to protect the health, safety and welfare of all of our citizens. And this definitely impacts all three areas.
And it will not stand, if they continue to move forward, if the virus gets worse, we're not going to let them go into the arena, and just be willy-nilly, having a great time, at the expense of the people of Jacksonville, and quite frankly, themselves.
CUOMO: Well we'll see because the Governor is going to be in-charge. He won't even release the State-wide hospitalization numbers, so the idea of being transparent, and doing the right thing, to get the cases down.
The one lesson we've learned so far is that the states that have done this the hardest and the strictest have opened up the best, because of it. So, we'll see what happens. Everybody's got eyes on Florida for a lot of reasons.
Tommy Hazouri, congratulations on your first day. Enjoy your service. Your community needs you.
HAZOURI: Chris, thank you. And thank you and your brother too. I'm really proud of what he's done in New York, from the worst to the best, and that God bless him. Thank you.
CUOMO: I take no responsibility for that guy. It's all on him.
HAZOURI: Thanks so much for having me.
CUOMO: Thank you very much. Take care.
HAZOURI: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, President Trump is once again claiming Coronavirus is just going to disappear. Now look, you know that's not true, OK? And while he revisits that fantasy, we must deal with the reality. We have the medical mind to do just that.
We got the President thinking the right way about masks, kind of. Let's make the most of that. Let's try to talk as much common sense as possible. Maybe it's contagious too. Next.
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