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Cuomo Prime Time
Court Clears Way For Tell-All Book By Trump's Niece; South Dakota Governor: "We Won't Be Social Distancing" At Trump's Fourth Of July Weekend Event At Mount Rushmore; Gun Violence Surges In Chicago Amid Pandemic And Policing Crisis. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 02, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question. And, at a time, when we're talking about withdrawing those forces, right, ending the war.
Jake, I know you put your - your lot of heart, blood, sweat and tears into this. Thanks for coming on tonight.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Again, it's called "The Outpost." Jake Tapper, thanks so much.
The news continues, of course, so I'm going to hand it over to my colleague, Chris. CUOMO PRIME TIME starts right now.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you, Jimmy. Have a great weekend with your family.
I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
I wish you all a safe celebration, as we honor our fight for freedom, in the best country of the world. And "The Fourth" could not arrive at a better moment in this country.
The good news is the questions that paralyze us now are not new. And, in fact, the inspiration for the proper response to all that ails us is found in the pledge that introduces the significance of the Fourth of July.
We pledge allegiance to the Flag, it begins, of course. Even our symbol's colors have come to capture a continuing commitment.
Red, to never forget the blood that marked our birth, that what we have is hard-fought and that the sacrifice must continue. Born of revolution, and the mandate is evolution of those same ideals.
White, for the expected purity of our purpose. We were designed to fight the good fight against oppression.
And blue, for the perseverance to secure justice, and to the Republic, for which the Flag stands. A republic, meaning we put people in positions of power to represent our interests.
Yet, our electeds are too often not just about their own conscience, but about opposition, ineffectiveness, seining an action (ph). No national plan for a pandemic still, needing people to take to the streets, to address problems that they are all aware of. They disrespect this pledge when they do that.
One nation, under God, indivisible, we draw on the highest inspiration of righteousness, to love one another as God loved us, to be our Brother's Keeper. And you won't wear a mask? Indivisibility, unity, divinely inspired, and yet, it is where we're most lacking.
Our lack of unity is making us sick, literally. Our President burns more calories trying to divide us than he does doing anything else. He told people the pandemic was a ploy, that masks were part of the masquerade.
He lied. He defied this pledge. And, even now, as the reality of the pain of the pandemic exposes his perfidy, his faithlessness, he follows, instead of leading, not owning his duty to the Office or the Flag.
But we, we the people, we pledge to stay together. And the basis for the unity, for the pledge, is again found in what follows, with liberty and justice for all.
We make the Pledge of Allegiance based on the promise of equality. We are indivisible because we are all the same here.
The pledge is at once a call to an ideal, and inspiration, but also a commitment to the perspiration, the hard work of evolution, change that this grand experiment has always demanded.
The pandemic of COVID, the epidemic of injustice, the outrage over a lack of opportunity, all the answers are in what we pledge to do with and for one another.
The challenges of ensuring the promise of, America for all, has always been a struggle. Born of revolution, yes, but destined for continual evolution. That is where we are, to honor the pledge by fighting for what is in it. Please, do what you can to keep up the good fight.
The CDC tonight projecting another 20,000 will die within the next three weeks or so, this is not the best we can do for one another.
Texas is now mandating masks, in counties with 20 or more cases, which is the way it should be. Nobody is saying "Masks everywhere, all the time, for everything." But cases are spiraling out of control there. That is nearly all of the State by the way, that meets the mandate.
Florida also seeing record-breaking spikes. 10,000 new cases reported there.
This is a war we must win. But where is our Wartime President? Tweeting about ratings.
How do we fight? What is the true state of play? Let's bring in someone who can help lead the way, former CDC Director, Tom Frieden.
The best to you, and your family, for the Independence weekend. And the best for good health, during this difficult time.
DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: Thanks, Chris, to you, too.
CUOMO: I read your piece "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly." Let's go through it. What is "The Good" in what we see right now?
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FRIEDEN: Well "The Good" is we know a lot more about the virus. Actually, if you look back, the last few months, we've learned an astonishing amount, not just about the virus, but also about how to control it.
And if you look at communities, states, countries, around the world, that are doing the right thing, being guided by public health, fully supporting public health, they are winning. They are controlling the virus, keeping it in check, and reopening their economies.
CUOMO: Yes.
FRIEDEN: If you turn your back on the virus, if you turn your back on science, it's going to bite you. And that's what's happening in most of the U.S., where we're seeing increases and, in some places, really fast increases of the virus.
CUOMO: So, you don't see what is happening here, right now, as a function of inevitability. You see it as a function of inaction and incomplete action. What is "The Bad" therefore?
FRIEDEN: Well, "The Bad" is that we're not following what we know will work. We're not scaling up a comprehensive approach.
One of the things that I find so frustrating is that people seem to look for the one thing that's going to control this. Whether it's restricting travel, or staying home, or testing a lot of people, or wearing a mask, and those are all important, but none of them, in and of themselves, are going to control this.
You need a comprehensive response.
You need to basically physically distance, the three Ws, "Wear a mask, Wash your hands, Watch your distance," and you need to box the virus in, with strategic testing, effective isolation, rapid contact tracing and supportive quarantine. We are not doing that yet in most of the country.
For that reason, only a handful of states, including here in New York, are you seeing a relatively positive, quite a positive here in New York trend. But everywhere, in the country, is at risk when you have this kind of exponential growth in so many states.
CUOMO: Yes. We're also dealing with fatigue of forbearance. I mean, in New York, you know, now it's almost being exaggerated as a
success story because people here want to get things back that we're not ready for yet. We're doing better in New York than was expected, and better than a lot of places. But we're not ready for everything here.
This Independence weekend has to be a very different type of celebration. That takes us to "The Ugly," the politicization of this.
FRIEDEN: Well--
CUOMO: The President making masks part of a faux masquerade of a hoax that never existed. The pandemic was always too real. What is "The Ugly" in your opinion?
FRIEDEN: Yes. There is only one enemy here. It's a virus. And the more we divide, the more it can conquer us. So, we can beat it by learning.
One thing, really well done in New York, that your brother, Governor Cuomo, looked around, saw what's happening, in other parts of the country.
And unlike some other parts, that looked at New York, and said, "That could never happen here," said "Wow! When you open restaurants, indoors, and bars, you get an explosion in young people." And we're seeing that all over the country.
So, a really good decision to say, "You know, too soon for indoor dining in New York City right now." And, for places in the country, it was inconceivable that you had bars opening, when you still had lots of spread.
It's not that we're against bars or drinking. It's just the science. If you have lots of people, in an indoor place, for a long period of time, not wearing masks, you're going to have spread of COVID.
CUOMO: One of the newest pushbacks I'd like to get your take on.
"You know, our cases, yes, they're going up. But they're mostly young people, 20 to 44. A lot of them are asymptomatic. They're not getting as sick. So, it's not as big a problem."
FRIEDEN: Well it's true that we are seeing more cases in young adults now than before. And that result of that is you won't have as high a death rate initially.
But young people talk to other people. The virus doesn't stay in one place. It's not as if young people don't spread it to others. So, what starts in the young is not going to stay in the young.
You may have another few weeks or a month delay, but you'll see waves of infection in others. And, with that, you'll see increased Intensive Care Unit, increased deaths.
Right now, Arizona has the highest rate in the country, and they're still going up steadily. And one of the real problems here, and what we learned the hard way,
in New York, is even when you close it may take a month or two months for things to quiet down. Physical distancing is a powerful tool. But it takes time to work.
So, a hard truth that people are going to have to get used to is, if you want your kids to be able to go to school safely, in the fall, you're going to have to stay apart for the next month or two months, in much of the country, or it's not going to be possible, and you're going to overwhelm the healthcare, the hospitals and other healthcare systems.
And that's something that really bothers me, Chris, because we've seen more than 400 doctors and nurses killed by COVID. And that's just outrageous.
These are people, who are there to care for us, and we have to protect them more effectively, not only for their own health, but so that COVID can be treated well and, also, so we don't lose lives from heart attack and stroke, which is what's happening.
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When people fear the hospital, they stay home, have a heart attack, they're not cared for, and you see an increase in deaths, not from COVID but because of the disruptions of healthcare that COVID caused.
CUOMO: We--
FRIEDEN: So, there are a lot of harms to this virus, and the way to beat it is to stick together, to focus on what works, to look at the data, to track and hold ourselves accountable, and not rush reopening.
CUOMO: To be together, and to do what's smart, that is the call to arms that should have been here from the beginning. We should not be where we are, but we don't have to stay here.
Dr. Tom Frieden, thank you for "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly."
FRIEDEN: Thank you.
CUOMO: Be well this weekend.
FRIEDEN: You too.
CUOMO: All right, look, the country is in rough shape. We got big challenges. And yet, the President's own flesh and blood is coming after him right now, labeling him "The World's most dangerous man," his own family.
Will you get to find out why, in detail? A Judge just lifted a TRO, a Temporary Restraining Order on Mary Trump's upcoming tell-all. The First Family Member still faces legal challenges.
We have her Attorney here tonight. What are the obstacles? And why do I want to read this book so much? Let's see how he makes the case, next.
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CUOMO: The President loves to talk about being censored. And yet, he tried to censor the former National Security Adviser's book. And now, he is trying to censor his niece's own book, well, not Trump, Trump's brother.
But the Court just said Trump's niece can go forward with her book. But she still got some legal issues. This latest tell-all set to be released just in time for the Republican Convention.
The central question of whether Mary Trump can publish centers around whether or not she violated a nearly 20-year-old confidentiality agreement. That's the issue in the air.
The fight will be handled, on her end, by Attorney Ted Boutrous.
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CUOMO: Counselor, welcome to PRIME TIME.
TED BOUTROUS, MARY TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Thanks so much for having me, Chris.
CUOMO: Let's do the legalities, and then try to sell me on the book.
"You signed the confidentiality. Now you got to live by it. Period, amen, you lose."
BOUTROUS: That's wrong, Chris. And I think you know it is.
The First Amendment of the Constitution precludes what are called prior restraints, which are the most dangerous, and least tolerable, of all First Amendment violations. The Supreme Court has never upheld one in the context of a speech that involves public concern.
And this is speech in a book that is of utmost public concern. And we don't even think this agreement applies here. It's 20 years old. It's long expired. It was very narrowly tailored. So, this, we feel very strongly about our legal position.
CUOMO: Well that's going to be the key. You're going to do the public speech exception to a contracted waiver of a right. And I understand that. Let's not get in the weeds.
You're an excellent lawyer. I'm not. But most of the audience doesn't even care about these bigger terms.
Just to take one more beat on it, the story circulating around is "Mary wants to put out things that were private to the family, documents, understandings, and details that she promised she wouldn't."
Why doesn't she have to keep her word?
BOUTROUS: Well first, she is keeping her word. She is complying with this agreement or she did comply with it. It doesn't have any effect anymore. It's also void.
As we are showing in the brief we're filing tonight, we believe that agreement, to begin with, was void, because of fraud, because President Trump and his family didn't disclose the truth about the assets that were involved in the agreement.
So, there are all kinds of problems with that agreement. And Ms. Trump is just a citizen who wants to give important information to the public about the President of the United States.
And President Trump, you mentioned this at the top, he doesn't like the truth. He wants to censor public discussion about important public affairs, and including himself, and the First Amendment says, "No. You can't do that."
CUOMO: So, tantalize us a little bit. What would be in this book that would be new and informational and revelatory enough to warrant this type of effort?
BOUTROUS: Well, I don't want to - I don't want to ruin the surprise. And I'll leave that to - to Mary Trump, when the book comes out. And we're also--
CUOMO: She has an open invitation.
BOUTROUS: Absolutely. I'm sure she'd love to come on. And she will.
And what I can tell you about the book and, you know, we have the - you still have a TRO against Mary Trump that we're fighting, and we're going to seek to have vacated, in what we're filing tonight.
But I can tell you that this is someone, and this has been publicly disclosed by Simon & Schuster, Mary Trump had an up-close and personal look at President Trump for many, many years, and has an insight into his character, into what made him the person he is today, the Leader of the Free World. And she has information that I think will shed a lot of light on what
made him the person he is. And that will help all of us think about whether he is the right person to be President, and maybe understand him better, in terms of how he's acted while he's been President.
I think there could be no more important information for the public.
CUOMO: Anything about his taxes?
BOUTROUS: I'm not going to - I'm not going to ruin the surprise. But, as I said, we do, in our brief tonight, talk about some of the financial issues.
But I'm just going to leave the book to the book, and focus on the legal issues, and get this TRO completely eliminated, so the public can have a full discussion and understanding of all these issues.
CUOMO: Can you tell us what you talk about with the financials that's in the brief, seeing how that may be made public?
BOUTROUS: What we argue in the brief is that the Settlement Agreement, itself, 20 years ago, was the product of fraud.
And we cite "The New York Times" article from October of 2018 that did an exhaustive analysis of the Trump family finances, and found, and won the Pulitzer Prize, that the Trump family, including the President, were undervaluing assets, in significant ways, in order to evade taxes, and the assets that were part of that Settlement Agreement.
And so, the Settlement Agreement that includes the non-disclosure agreement was the product of fraud. Therefore, it's void. It can't be enforced. It's one of the many reasons it's just not worth the paper it's printed on, at this point.
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CUOMO: Ted Boutrous, thank you very much for giving us a peek into the litigation. You filed the brief tonight. Obviously, you won't get any kind of relief over the weekend. But we'll be watching.
You and your client are welcome on the show to make the case for the interest of the book, open invitation.
BOUTROUS: Thank - thanks very much.
CUOMO: All right, God bless, be well. Thank you for being with us tonight.
Is the President endangering the lives of Americans with what he wants to do at Mount Rushmore tomorrow? I don't know how you argue that he isn't.
I mean, thousands are expected. The Governor has said "You don't have to socially distance" that "You can wear a mask if you want." I mean, how is that not putting people at risk? We're going to bring in the Sheriff who is doing a lot of prep for the
trip. Is he worried? Am I missing something? What is the source of the confidence? Next.
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CUOMO: So, we said we'll see with what the President does about his event in South Dakota, whether or not he is now serious about doing what he can to protect people from the pandemic. Saying, "Yes, I'll wear a mask" isn't enough.
He is going forward with his event at Mount Rushmore tomorrow, despite the science, despite the warnings, despite one of his well - own well- known surrogates now in the hospital after attending the last rally.
At least 7,500 people are set to attend. "No need to socially distance," they are told by the Governor. Nothing else said by the President.
We wanted to talk to the Governor of South Dakota, Governor Noem, about what she plans to do to protect the people. She won't come on.
She did say this to a friendlier network.
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GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): But those who want to come and join us, we'll be giving out free face masks, if they choose to wear one. But we won't be social distancing. We're asking them to come, be ready to celebrate, to enjoy the freedoms and the liberties that we have in this country.
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CUOMO: Now, masks are optional, no social distancing, even as infections continue to rise in the State. There is no question South Dakota is not a hotspot. It doesn't have the density.
But make no mistake. This isn't about freedom, what's happening there. This is about whether politics are worth the risk of American health.
Joining us now is Sheriff Kevin Thom, not a politician, Sheriff of Pennington County. That's not why he is here. He is not here to argue politics. I just want to talk to him about the event. He is responsible for the Home Village to Mount Rushmore.
Sheriff, thank you for joining us.
SHERIFF KEVIN THOM, PENNINGTON COUNTY, SOUTH DAKOTA: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be on your show.
CUOMO: First thing, before we get into the obvious, you guys hadn't been allowing fireworks, around the Monument there, because of forest fire risk and other things. That ban was overturned for this event.
Any concern, and how are you trying to address the potential issues there?
THOM: Yes. There were fireworks at Mount Rushmore for nine years or 10 years previously. There's ban a gap since that time.
Of course, in a forest setting, fires are always a concern. So, we have processes in place, through people that are experts in that area, to monitor the conditions.
This week, we're fortunate. We've had rain showers several nights. Had another rain shower this evening go through that area, so that will help mitigate risk of fire.
CUOMO: All right, good, good luck with that. Obviously, you stopped doing it for a reason.
Now, you didn't put the rules in place. But you are in charge with enforcement. I mean, your job is a little bit easier because there is nothing to enforce.
But are you concerned at all with that many people coming together, and no social distancing, and no, you know, demand that they wear a mask? Are you worried about what that means from a health perspective?
THOM: Yes. Well we've been planning this event for over six months. We started pre-COVID-19 and now, of course, post-COVID-19. There is a variety of factors in planning an event like this.
Of course, our land is public safety. There is a medical piece to that. There are some measures put in place. One is an outdoor event, which does help--
CUOMO: Helps.
THOM: --reduce the spread of, you know, COVID-19. Face masks are available. There are sanitization stations. Those sort of measures have been taken.
And again, those that are uncomfortable with that setting, you know, shouldn't attend. It's individual choice. We're pretty independent here in the West. So, if you want to attend, you should.
If you don't, then there's other options. You can watch it live- streaming on TV, a variety of different ways to watch it.
CUOMO: Are you going to have the men and women, in your - under your control, wearing masks?
THOM: No. They will not be.
CUOMO: Why not?
THOM: Again, we're outdoors. And we're mostly on the peripheral of the crowd.
Some are deputies, some of the State troopers are working with, they're out at checkpoints, you know, literally standing outside their patrol cars, as other cars are coming into the event.
So, the contact, direct contact with people is pretty minimal, you know, absent, of course, having to make an arrest or something like that.
CUOMO: What if they have to go into the crowd to do something?
THOM: Again, same thing. It's an outdoor event. So, we feel that it's safe to go do that and we're not going to be wearing masks.
CUOMO: Do you - are you going to put up any kind of warnings for people that they understand the risk that's going on when they're there?
THOM: And again, that's not our lane, per se. I know the Governor's Office has done messaging along those lines. I can't tell you what they all are--
CUOMO: Right.
THOM: --and follow them chapter and verse.
CUOMO: Sheriff, you do know that being outside isn't a complete prophylactic, right, that it makes it harder for the disease to spread, but that you're not home-free. As you know that every place that deals with cases, if something happens outside, it doesn't vitiate the need for social distancing, or for masks.
You're aware of that, right?
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THOM: I understand there is - there is a risk with COVID-19 and there's no perfect setting, so to speak, when you get into crowds, whether it's, again, a beach or shopping mall, in a venue like this, the - there's some inherent risk. But again, that's individual choice if they want to come or not.
CUOMO: Where does it end in terms of being an individual choice in your estimation?
THOM: Yes, I'm not sure what you mean by that question. I mean it's a--
CUOMO: Well you said, you know, you said, "Look, it's your choice whether or not you want to come." Absolutely.
But when do you think somebody is right to go somewhere, and do it the way they want, during a pandemic ends, in terms of what they mean as a risk to somebody else's right to not get sick?
THOM: And again, all of our venues, in Mount Rushmore, like this event in particular, there will be 7,500 attendees and, of course, some additional staff, above and beyond that.
A typical day at Mount Rushmore during the summer, you can have 30,000 people, 40,000 people pass through that venue. A record day at Mount Rushmore was 50,000.
So, it's a venue that can accommodate a lot of people. And again, it's outdoors. So, people--
CUOMO: So, you've had this many people before, standing in one place, that close together, as they will be? That's happened on a regular basis?
THOM: Are you talking about recently or--
CUOMO: 7,500 people standing this close together, as they will be here, not walking through, not transiting through, not part of a tour, but staying in one place, to listen to a speech, various speeches, and a fireworks display. Is that common?
THOM: At Mount Rushmore it is. Again, talking years' past. Each year, every summer it's very busy. Almost 3 million tourists a year pass through Mount Rushmore. So, it's a busy place. And most of that is compressed into--
CUOMO: Bad time.
THOM: --what--
CUOMO: Just never during a pandemic before.
THOM: Yes. I mean it has a new dynamic to it.
Obviously, it's changed the way we do business in our country. You know, those 3 million people pass through that venue, over the course of mostly five months or six months. So, it's a busy place and a lot of people come through there.
CUOMO: So, you're not worried about it, Sheriff?
THOM: I'm good with the way we have it set up, and the precautions we have in place, yes.
CUOMO: All right, Sheriff, I appreciate it. I know you didn't set the rules. You have to enforce them. I wish you well and I hope it goes well. Sheriff Kevin Thom, best to you and the family.
THOM: Thank you. Thank you.
CUOMO: Be well.
COVID's, of course, a main concern, for anybody who wants to be reasonable about it, especially once you get into big cities, like Chicago. It's also fighting hard to beat back an uptick. By the way, that is a very gentle term.
You've seen the numbers, the shootings and the deaths that are happening in that City are eye-popping. There have to be major concerns, heading into a holiday weekend, like this.
The Right blames the shooting surge there on a failure of Democratic leadership. What does the Democratic Mayor of Chicago have to say to that? We'll ask her, next.
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CUOMO: We hear it again and again, from the Right, "Don't look at the protests against police brutality until you get to the bottom of Black-on-Black crime." And their favorite City to point to is Chicago, which is dealing with continuous violence, and a sharp rise in murders and shootings.
President Trump recently wrote a letter to the Mayor about the problem. But she, you know, what he - what she believes, he was sending in that letter, was really a misogynistic and racist rant.
Chicago's Mayor, Lori Lightfoot, joins us now.
I wish you and the family good health during this difficult time, and a safe celebration this weekend.
MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT, (D) CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: Thank you, Sir.
CUOMO: Specifically applies to you in Chicago. What are your concerns heading into the holiday weekend?
LIGHTFOOT: Well look, Fourth of July is a time that should be of community. It's a very challenging time this year. Most of our celebrations are going to be virtual. And we, of course, concerned with the continuing plague of COVID-19.
We want to make sure that people are gathering, but gathering in small groups, practicing social distancing, wearing face coverings in public. We are trending in the right direction regarding COVID-19.
But all around us, and certainly in places, across the country, they are red hot. Cities and towns and states in other parts of the country are setting daily records for cases and deaths.
We do not want that to be the narrative and the fate of Chicago. So, what I keep urging our residents is that we have to remain resolute, we have to keep practicing the things that have gotten us to this point, where we can start to safely, but cautiously reopen.
CUOMO: Why is there so much Black-on-Black violence, crime, and death in Chicago?
LIGHTFOOT: Well, I think to answer that question you have to also look at what has been the legacy of racism and segregation and lack of investment in our City. That is really what's causing a lot of this.
Violence is an explosion, but there is a root cause underneath that. And, in too many of our neighborhoods, historically, we have not invested enough in making sure that we've got access to good healthcare, to good jobs, schools.
And really fundamentally, giving residents, in crime-plagued neighborhoods, a sense of hope and optimism that the City sees them, and that City, all of us, is supportive of them. We've changed that around in my one year in Office.
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But there is so much more work to be done. And, in particular, we've got to reach out to those young men that are on the corners, that are the shooters, and we've got to prick their consciousness about the sanctity of life.
But we also need an all-hands-on-deck approach. It can't just be on the police. Certainly that doesn't work. It can't just be on City Government, although we're all-hands-on-deck.
It's got to be the responsibility of every Chicagoan and every community to think about and then execute on what we all can do to keep our community safe.
CUOMO: I've got a long time, studying what's happened in Chicago, goes back even to the days of Brother Bill on Cabrini-Green.
LIGHTFOOT: Yes.
CUOMO: I understand the situation well.
The President looks at it, and says, "Yes, you know what the common denominator is? You lousy Democrats! You've been in charge of that City forever. And that's why you've never helped these people. You take the Blacks and the Black vote for granted. You never do anything for them. They should give him a chance."
What do you say?
LIGHTFOOT: Well, look, the reality is that the President's criticisms of Chicago, and D.C., and Atlanta, and Seattle, and other major cities that are controlled by Democratic Mayors, is patently transparent. It's political.
He is trying to borrow a page from the Richard Nixon playbook, where you - you divide and you conquer.
You scare White suburbanites, you scare White working-class folks, into thinking that you're the person, who's got all the answer, and that the Democrats are failed. But here is the reality for this President.
When he picks on me, and Jenny Durkan, and Keisha Lance Bottoms, and Muriel Bowser, we are all very tough women. And we are leading because that's what Mayors do. We are not failing every single day to step up, and own responsibility, and be a leader, in this incredible time.
The President needs to take our lead, and follow it, and - because we are demonstrating every day, what leadership is, in the toughest of times. We need the President to be a better leader. We need him to be - take ownership of the responsibility.
Even though he's failed in these three months, he still has an opportunity to lead. But he is not interested in that. What he is interested in is dividing and conquering. That is not a recipe for success.
We need a leader like Joe Biden, who is going to step up, and seize the opportunity, to bring people together, and recognize that all the answers aren't in government.
But if the President of the United States fails to exemplify the greatness of our country, and bring our people together, then we will fail as a country.
CUOMO: So Mayor, just to be clear.
LIGHTFOOT: Now, we're not going to let that happen. Yes?
CUOMO: You don't think it's a coincidence that he is pointing out women Mayors.
LIGHTFOOT: No.
CUOMO: And you do not believe that his interest, in his letter, lies in stopping Black-on-Black crime.
LIGHTFOOT: No, look, if the President was really interested in helping cities, like Chicago, he wouldn't be trying to attack the Affordable Care Act. He would be trying to support it. If he was really interested, he would expand Medicare.
He wouldn't continue to demonize our immigrant and refugee communities. He wouldn't be demonizing the LGBTQ-plus community. He'd be investing in affordable housing.
And he - that Infrastructure bill that he talks so much about, that's never materialized. Why? Because the President has failed to lead. Big talk, little action. In some places in the country, we call that "All hat, no cattle."
The President has failed to lead. And it's obvious, every single day, the mountain of evidence, of his failed leadership, and failed Presidency is just accumulating, like a rising pile of, and I'll let you fill in the blanks.
We don't need this divisiveness. We need support. We need help. We need true leadership. Never once has he, since I got elected, one time, he's called me and said, "Mayor, what can we do together?"
If he was sincere in wanting to lead, he wouldn't just send me some letter that he then publicizes, and tries to run on. He would roll up his sleeves, and ask Mayors, "What can I do to help?"
CUOMO: Mayor Lori?
LIGHTFOOT: That's what leadership does.
CUOMO: Mayor Lori Lightfoot, good luck to you in Chicago this weekend and beyond. Thank you for coming on the show.
LIGHTFOOT: Thanks so much. I appreciate it.
CUOMO: All right.
This story killed me, and I really think you need to hear it. 53 years of marriage, beautiful, the story of how these two met, how they fell in love, how they built a life together.
They just passed away together, literally within hours of each other, in Texas, holding hands in their hospital beds. May they rest in peace, and my condolences to their family.
But I really just deeply believe you need to look at this story as something that didn't have to happen. Their half-a-century love story did not have to have COVID as its last chapter.
[21:45:00]
And you don't take it from me. I want you to take it from their son. I want you to hear about Betty and Curtis Tarpley, and how COVID took them, and what it means to him, and his family, next.
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CUOMO: Each new COVID case number, each new death, those are people, families, destroyed, people that you'd know that you'd have, your mothers, your fathers, your sisters, your brothers, your kids.
Betty and Curtis Tarpley, Fort Worth, Texas, met in high school, found each other again, as adults, fell in love, got married, had two kids. Married for 53 years, you know how hard that is these days?
Last month, both of them tested positive for Coronavirus. They both ended up in the hospital. The hospital realized that they were in extremis that this wasn't going to turn out well, and they let them be put together, and they died minutes apart, holding hands.
[21:50:00]
Joining us now is Betty and Curtis' son, Tim Tarpley.
I am very sorry for your loss. I don't know this degree of loss, to lose both your parents, at the same time, the measure of solace, of course, being that they were together, and they went together.
But what has this been like for your family?
TIM TARPLEY, PARENTS DIED MINUTES APART FROM CORONAVIRUS: I mean, it's - I'm not going to lie, it's been tough. You know, it's this like any life loss, it's tough.
And it's, you know, we think it's a little bit easier that they both went at the same time, and then we're not seeing one of them, you know, mourning over the other. So, it - that's, you know, the bright side of it.
But, I mean, they were, you know, they were, you know, 80 years old, and they were both, you know, had decided they were ready to go. So, at that point, as a child, you can't really, you know, give your opinion about it.
CUOMO: Well, they decided it was their time because they were sick, but they didn't have to be sick. I mean, that's what kills me about this. 80 is a beautiful life. But, you know, they were well before this, you know, they weren't getting ready to run the marathon.
But what are your feelings about how - what took them and what - why this happened?
TARPLEY: I mean, we really don't know how, you know, my mom got it. She was - she was careful. And she'd become really good at ordering
online. Probably better than I did. But I mean she could figure out how to get stuff, and she could let us know, if we needed to bring her something. So, she was careful.
And then when things started opening back up, and I think just the, you know, the complacency of, you know, "The numbers are going down, and we flattened the curve," all that stuff kind of made them just, you know, lean back and think it was going to be OK.
My dad didn't leave the house all year, so it wasn't - he just couldn't afford it. His health was not good from the beginning. But we still don't know where my mom got it. And that's the thing.
You know, she wore a mask. But, you know, you just don't know these, you know, how, you know, we really just don't know much about this virus, you know.
CUOMO: No, we don't.
TARPLEY: So it's, we got to be--
CUOMO: Well all we know is - all we know is what it does to people like you, when you lose your loved ones.
TARPLEY: Yes.
CUOMO: And look, again, we know the old are vulnerable. You know, we know your father, and a lot of others, like him, check a lot of boxes of vulnerability, and comorbidity, as they call it these days.
But it also just kind of, I had to talk to you because, one, I feel for you. I know that I miss my father all the time. My whole family does. My mother, most of all, to your point about watching one grieve another.
But one of the pains of this situation that we're in is that they shouldn't have been taken now. Yes, they had a beautiful life.
But if we were taking this more seriously, just makes me think that maybe we would have bought them another year, another six months, another couple of years, and that may not matter to a lot of people, when it's not their mother and father.
But what would you do for another six months with your parents?
TARPLEY: I mean that's the kind of thing. It's, you know, we really had a great relationship, this whole last couple of years.
And it's like, you know, we - you know, my dad is, we've said our goodbyes and things like that, so we were really, you know, kind of at peace that we knew, if they got it.
And honestly, when I took my mom to the hospital, I never thought that she had it. So, this was kind of a shock that she tested positive. So, it is just one of those things that's, yes, I mean it's - every - I think everybody want one more moment or one more chance with someone they can't be with.
CUOMO: Tell me something about your parents that people should know, so that their experience with them isn't just what took them, but how they lived their lives.
TARPLEY: I mean, you know, it's like - and it's now in this - in this stage of grief, I guess, that, and you know, I've been lucky.
So, you know, I've had the virus, so I've been quarantined, and my poor sister's been having to go through the stuff, and handle all the arrangements and stuff. But, you know, so I've been somewhat secluded from the world.
But it's just one of those things. All the lessons they've taught you, along the way, are now - you're realizing your traits, and your skills, where they came from, and that's even more of a blessing.
CUOMO: What will you remember most?
TARPLEY: Oh, man! You know, I've done so many of these interviews, and it's like every time you get done, you think, "Oh, I forgot that one thing."
I think it's, you know, like with my dad, it was always - if something didn't work, or you needed something, if they made a tool, then he could just build it, or fix it, you know? If there's a tool made for that, he could handle it, figure it out.
[21:55:00]
And then that was my mom. My mom was always about, you know, let's just figure out how to work this and, you know, make this money last a little bit longer. I mean she just - they were just fun adventurers that, you know, it was perfect.
CUOMO: What an example for you to have!
I am so sorry for your loss, Tim. But, you know, it's kind of a trick question, because it can't be just one thing when you have such special people.
TARPLEY: Yes.
CUOMO: I'm showing a picture of your family right now. What a beautiful legacy you all are for them. And that's what everybody wants, as you know, as a parent, is for your kids to carry on, and to have it better than you did, and to take what you know, and add to it.
So, thank God you had them as long as you did. You have the memories that you have. There's a picture of you with your mom holding a baby. Beautiful!
Hold on to those memories, and remember what they taught you, and remember them at their best, and I'm so sorry you lost them the way you did. And I wish you the best going forward.
TARPLEY: Thank you.
CUOMO: Tim Tarpley. How many families are in a situation like theirs? It doesn't have to be this way. We can fight this thing. We can give people more time.
We'll be right back.
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