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Cuomo Prime Time

President Trump Takes the Road of Optimism Without Action; COVID-Positive Party-goers Presented with Subpoenas; Miami-Dade County Under New Curfew Rules; Coronavirus The Major Issue in November. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired July 02, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Hey, I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome back to a bonus hour of Prime Time.

Is this country really headed for a second lockdown in the first wave, the never-ending tsunami wave of this pandemic? After all the sacrifice by so many in so many places, after all the pain. And why? Because we can't unite, we can't come together to do the basic things, the three W's, wash your hands when you can, stay away, and if you can't, wear a mask. A little more sacrifice.

Instead, look at the numbers as we head into Independence Day weekend. Boy, we are not liberated from this virus. A 128,000 dead. The CDC tonight projecting another 20,000 will die within the next three weeks or so. Thirty-eight states seeing cases on the rise. Almost half the nation halting reopening plans or rolling them back. Why? Because we didn't do it right. Because we don't have a plan that keeps us all together.

How can this president look you in the eye and expect you to buy the crap that this crisis is being handled?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The crisis is being handled. China was way early. And they're getting under control just now. And Europe was way early. And they're getting under control. We followed them. With this terrible China virus. And we are likewise getting under control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: It's not accurate. It hasn't been handled. It's been mishandled. It's not under control. It's out of control. It's never been worse. And here's what you have to see. He knows that what he's telling you right now isn't true. That's why he's starting to loosen up on the idea of masks.

If everything was working the way he wanted, why didn't he stay consistent on that? You see, the hypocrisy is there for all to see. Now he's saying I'm all for them. They make him look like the lone ranger. Again, lone ranger, mask over eyes. COVID, mask over mouth.

He said yesterday he would wear one if he was in a small, tight space. But he wasn't wearing one today when he was in the small, tight space of the White House Briefing Room.

And after his own campaign staffers, his own Secret Service agents, and one of his top surrogates, Herman Cain, all contracted the virus after attending his reckless rally in Oklahoma where they removed the warning signs from seats. He is still forging ahead with his holiday celebration tomorrow at Mount Rushmore. Masks optional. Social distancing, no need.

His predecessors on that mountain, the irony, Washington, Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln. He wants to be in their presence, but he doesn't want to act in their image or resemble their likeness as leaders. They have to be looking down on him with disdain. Even the deep red state of Texas now mandating masks.

Now, again, they want us all to wear masks. They're taking our liberty. That's the way you think the government would do it? That's not for everywhere and every situation. Counties with 20 or more cases in Texas. Now, that happens to cover about 95 percent of Texans, but that's because they didn't do it right.

They're seeing record-breaking spikes along with Florida which didn't do it right. The governor there boasting, where is it, where is the COVID? You got your answer, brother. You broke your own record with more than 10,000 new cases reported yesterday.

So how do we get out of this? The same way we knew when we got into it.

Let's bring in a very valuable health authority, Dr. William Schaffner. Welcome back to Prime Time. The good news is the rules haven't changed. Now, look, we did get a little sideways with masks early on. Don't wear a mask. You wind up touching your face, you'll make yourself sick. Don't wear a mask. They're in short supply. You got to save them for the essential workers, the first responders.

[22:04:54]

But now we have more masks. We've learned more. We've realized about the strong parts of contagiousness here. And now the mask works in combination with other things. Wash your hands. Stay the heck away from me, if you can, and if you can't, wear a mask. It still works, right?

WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Absolutely, Chris, it still works. And something you said triggered a thought. Think of this, we're about to celebrate Independence Day. I'd actually like to rename it for this year interdependence day.

CUOMO: Strong, Schaffner. Strong.

SCHAFFNER: And emphasize the dependence part. You know, we need to do this together. We need each other. E pluribus Unum. Out of many, one. You know, the 13 colonies didn't go off each on their own toot. Despite their differences they came together, and that togetherness created strength.

We need a national coherence when it comes to getting COVID under control. What they're doing in Texas, we need to do in Montana and in Nashville and in Virginia. All the states need to act in concert, E pluribus Unum.

CUOMO: What do you say about the argument that, I don't see what Schaffner is so upset about. We're just following the course everybody else did. China, you know, they're just starting to figure it out. Europe, you know, they've struggled also. What makes it so bad that it's happening here. It's what happens everywhere.

SCHAFFNER: Well, I think we ought to reflect on the numbers. They're right out there. China knocked it down and has pretty much kept it down. Europe knocked it down and is holding it way down. We're going up. This virus is now all over the country. It's spreading wildly. It's not on summer vacation.

And this weekend, I hope we don't have a reprise of what happened on Memorial Day with lots of people out there carefree rather than careful. I want everybody to have a good time. Carefully, prudently, please.

CUOMO: They will because the only reason the cases are up in Texas and in Florida because of the protesters. Do you believe that?

SCHAFFNER: No, I don't believe that. The protestors may, indeed, have added an accelerant to what was already happening when things were opening up, but people opening up casually, not wearing masks, not observing social distancing, gathering in bars, going to religious services, close together in the pews, that all provides environments for this virus to spread. It's really contagious.

CUOMO: What do you think of that party the kids are having, trying to take bets on who will get it? Remember those crazy measles parties back in the day? What do you think of this type of activity?

SCHAFFNER: A bad idea. You won't find a single infection disease doctor recommending that. Remember, kids are not immune. Some of those children do wind up in the emergency room. So, you can't predict who's going to get sick. Don't mess with nature. Do the right thing.

CUOMO: You know, it's one of the arguments we're hearing about why we shouldn't be so concerned about the case pops in places like Arizona. Well, Schaffner, it's mostly younger people. The spike is in 20 to 44- year-olds and they don't have as bad cases, so we're going to be OK.

SCHAFFNER: Young people are the disseminators. They go about, bring it home, give it to Aunt Sally who has diabetes, grandpa Tom who has got a little bit of lung disease and heart disease. And then when they get sick, oops, they wind up in the hospital and on a ventilator. As I'd like to say, it's easier to wear a mask than a ventilator.

CUOMO: How important is messaging at the top?

SCHAFFNER: Premier. If you ask any public health person before COVID, what's the single-most important thing in combatting an incipient outbreak or pandemic? They would say communication, communication, communication. Clear, consistent, serene, that is comforting and reassuring that we're in control and we're all going to do the right thing. That's very, very important. People are confused because they have had lots of different messages.

CUOMO: We're in worse shape than we were going into Memorial Day. Are you worried about perfect storm here? Do you think people will be scared straight? Or scared safe?

SCHAFFNER: I think there are two populations out there. And one group are staying home, sheltering in place and being very, very careful in their family reunions. Others, I'm afraid, are going to be out there, as I say, carefree rather than careful. And it's those folks that I'm really worried about.

[22:09:58]

They are the disseminators. They move that virus around. They'll get in their cars and their planes and distribute it to their own communities.

CUOMO: So, if you're going to do something, do it outside. Try to keep some distance. Keep the numbers down. Bring your masks around. Wash your hands like crazy.

SCHAFFNER: True.

CUOMO: And you got to -- you got to play a little scared on this. Because it's got to be a long-term game.

SCHAFFNER: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Dr. Schaffner, interdependence day, that's good. I'm so glad I thought of it. No, I'm kidding. Thank you, as always, for adding to the stew. You are a plus. I wish you a safe celebration this weekend. God bless you and the family.

SCHAFFNER: Likewise. Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right.

Some people who ignored social distancing rules went to a party not far from New York City. The host had COVID symptoms. Soon, eight of the partygoers were infected.

So why did public health officials hit them with subpoenas and threats of huge fines after they got sick? The local health commissioner tells us why and what happened after that, next.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: So, here's what happened. Two weeks ago, young partygoers, all in their 20s, went to this big gathering in Rockland County, New York. The host showed signs of COVID but went on with the party anyway. Now at least eight of the guests are infected.

So, the county wanted to use them to talk to contact tracers. Some refused. That's a mistake. The county played hardball to contain the new cluster. They issued subpoenas, fines of up to two grand a day. Guess what? Suddenly they started cooperating.

Rockland County Health Commissioner Dr. Patricia Schnabel Ruppert is here on how it all played out. Commissioner, thank you for joining us. The best to you and your family for a self -- safe celebration and good health.

PATRICIA SCHNABEL RUPPERT, HEALTH COMMISSIONER, ROCKLAND COUNTY, NEW YORK: Thank you very much, Chris.

CUOMO: So, why'd you have to extend the long arm of the law? Isn't it bad enough that they're sick as it is? Why did you have to do this?

RUPPERT: Well, it's very important, as I think you know by now, that we need effective contact tracing. And that depends on the timeliness of case identification, on case isolation, and on quarantining those who are contacts.

So it's very important that in a -- in a rapid manner we ascertain who has been exposed and, you know, have them identified and quarantine those, especially family members who live with a person, as they're at higher risk, and also close friends, for example, of the partygoers who then need to be quarantined so that they don't transmit the virus to others. We did not have that.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: So, you don't subpoena -- you don't subpoena willy-nilly? You call them up. You say we got your names, we heard you were at the party and basically you got the I'm no rat reply. They didn't want to give up names because they didn't want to tell about other people.

It's a little bit of a human inclination. It's a little bit of a culture change we need to have, but this was always going to be a problem with contact tracing, that's why training goes into it. Then comes the subpoenas. Now, what about the guy who had the party who knew he had symptoms?

RUPPERT: We have subsequently been able to speak with him, and we have got -- received full cooperation from him at this point.

CUOMO: But is there liability or exposure for knowing that you have symptoms and having a party anyway?

RUPPERT: It's a foolish move, for sure.

CUOMO: What does it tell you about where we are in the state of play? RUPPERT: It's very unfortunate. You know, and some of the responses we

initially received were, you know, I don't have to give you information. I don't want to give you information. And there is nothing you can do to make me give you information. Not verbatim, but that was the attitude that was presented.

And when the subpoenas were processed yesterday and delivered, within a few hours we had responses from almost everyone, and by this morning everyone. That is before the time occurred, which was this afternoon, for them to respond legally. So, they hurried and called and responded and gave the information because at that point the risk for them to have to pay was quite high.

CUOMO: And, look, timeliness is everything. You got to track down who else is there, who's exposed, and that's how you contain and you don't get a cluster. Where are you in terms of your ability to do this at scale in the State of New York?

RUPPERT: So, in Rockland County, we have been at distance our first case on March 4th. We're up to 13,590 cases at this time. We have been able to tackle this. All along, we increased the number of contact investigators that we have, and then the contact tracers as well. And we're holding our own with this, with some additional help from the state contact tracers, but mostly at this point we can handle this ourselves because our case load has decreased.

CUOMO: What are you hearing around the state? Do you have enough contact tracing going on?

RUPPERT: Seems to be. I know that they are at the ready, you know, if there's a surge or when there's a surge in different areas.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something about strategic planning here and what we've learned. Is it weird to you that the states are all having to figure this out for yourselves and that there is not some kind of big national network at play with something like this? You know, where there can be, hey, we need more. Let's call the feds because they, you know, have this bigger umbrella and we know where the assets are and moving them around or do you think state by state is just the way it has to be?

[22:20:02]

RUPPERT: I think that state by state is how it's designed to be at this point. Could there be a larger picture? I suppose. But that would take a lot of coordination.

And at this point, as you know, the feds have taken over the supply of many of the equipment that we've needed, the PPE that was needed, and then it's to go states and then the states to the counties. And, you know, the -- they have loosened up lately, but we had some difficulty in the beginning with that.

So, I think having the feds do that and without full coordinated effort is probably impossible. CUOMO: Well, listen, I'm glad it worked in this situation. Dumb idea

to have a party when you're having COVID symptoms. Dumb idea to have a party, period, in this way because they weren't being safe about it.

Hopefully it is one of those stories that people will learn from as we head into independence weekend.

Doctor, thank you very much. I appreciate your cooperation and taking the opportunity, and I wish you well going forward. Thank you for the work you're doing for your county and the state.

RUPPERT: Thank you very much, Chris.

CUOMO: God bless. Be well.

RUPPERT: Thank you.

CUOMO: President Trump said today, hey, the virus is being handled. We just had Schaffner slap that out of the world of speculation because the cases tell the story. We're not China. We're not Europe. We're worse, OK? And we didn't have to be.

Now around 50,000 cases a day. Putting this nation at risk of even greater outbreak. And now a major tourist spot has just announced a curfew this holiday weekend. What does it mean? Next.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: This is new tonight. The mayor of Miami-Dade County, Florida is ordering a countywide curfew. Ten p.m. to 6 a.m. as of tomorrow night. No end in sight. America is now at 50,000 new cases a day. Twenty- three states tonight are stopping or rolling back re-openings.

I told you a few minutes ago about the new Texas mask rule across the state. That's where Nick Watt picks up our nationwide snapshot.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Masks now mandatory in every Texas county with more than 20 cases. The governor finally gave in. In Austin, they're contemplating a radical rewind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR STEVE ADLER (D-TX), AUSTIN: One thing we may have to go to is to go back to a stay at home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: With an outdate to ease the pain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADLER: Would they do it if they knew it was for 35 days?

(END VIDEO CLIP) WATT: Record death tolls in Arizona and the biggest testing site in

the state struggling to cope. That's now a nationwide fear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIE KHANI, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN CLINICAL LABORATORY ASSOCIATION: We're seeing steady and significant increases in testing. We're concern that that demand is going to exceed our current capacity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: In California, they say 1 in 140 Angelinos are now infected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: And as early as next week as many as 1 in 100 or even 1 in 70.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: California now one of 23 states now pausing or rolling back reopening, but Florida is pushing forward despite more than 10,000 new cases today. A record.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I think kind of some of the easy things that you can do, I think fell down by the wayside a little bit, and now people understand this thing doesn't just go away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Maybe not everyone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear. I hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: The U.S. is now, now seeing all-time record numbers of new cases, around 50,000 a day. More than many countries have suffered during the entirety of this pandemic. In a day. And it's not just more testing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT GIROIR, U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: This is a real increase in cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: And now driven not by the elderly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIROIR: The current outbreak is primarily due to under 35s with a lot of gatherings, not appropriate protection, like masks.

WATT: Take Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDY SMITH, CHIEF, TUSCALOOSA FIRE DEPARTMENT: We had seen over the last few weeks parties going on in the county.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Parties to purposefully spread the virus with a cash prize, one city council member says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just think it's senseless, I think it's careless and it makes me mad as hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

CUOMO: Our thanks to nick for covering the reality.

Now, we've been covering the extended reality in this country. Pandemic is bad, but there's an epidemic of injustice as well. We've been covering the killing of Ahmaud Arbery extensively here on Prime Time, as you know. Even heard directly from one of the men charged with murder.

Now the prosecutor has some things to say about why all need to pay attention to cases like this. The prosecutor is here tonight to share her insights, next.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: It's been 130 days since Ahmaud Arbery's life was stolen. It's taken four prosecutors, a video taken by one of the men charged in his death, and, of course, a national outcry by people like you to get the case attention. Nevertheless, it will finally go to trial. When that happens, there will be a lot of attention on our next guest. Cobb Circuit District Attorney Joyette Holmes.

District Attorney Holmes, thank you for joining us on Prime Time.

JOYETTE HOLMES, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, COBB JUDICIAL CIRCUIT: You're welcome. It's my pleasure to be here, Chris.

CUOMO: First, thank you for your service and I wish you and your family good health during this time and safe celebration during our Independence Day weekend. HOLMES: Thank you so much. I wish the same for you and your family and

your team there.

CUOMO: Help us understand the difficulty of the task before you. To many, the case involving Ahmaud Arbery is fairly obvious based on what we saw in the videotape, but those 70-plus days of inaction loom large. You having several other district attorneys that did not take the path that you want to take in prosecuting, also in the way. How daunting is the task?

HOLMES: Well, you know, Chris, every case that comes through our office has its own challenges. You outlined kind of what some of the challenges were from the outset of this case. Gratefully, thankful, though, that the GBI did their investigation. We've been able to be led by the evidence and procure charges in this case against the three defendants based on that investigation.

CUOMO: What should people know about why it took so long for this case to receive even an introduction to justice?

[22:35:00]

HOLMES: You know, our office was appointed as a special prosecutor from the attorney general's office here in Georgia. And so, what happened prior to our appointment is what happened with other offices. So, I can't really speak to what happened prior to May 11th when we were appointed in the case.

CUOMO: Do you think it was right that the case was delayed as long as it was?

HOLMES: Well, I'm glad that we are where we are. And our office is going to handle the case with integrity. We're going to keep being intentional about the way we proceed to trial.

CUOMO: And for those who say, nah, the delay tells the story. This is going to be another one of those where the local community comes together to protect people who should be served justice for what they did.

HOLMES: Well, I would tell them to be patient. Have confidence in the team that we're putting together to make this case move forward. We've been able to be very productive since we have gotten into the case. Just last week, having a grand jury recalled so that we could do the indictments on the case against both of the McMichaels and William Roddie Bryan.

CUOMO: Came back in ten minutes. The videotape looms large. When you saw that videotape, what was your reaction?

HOLMES: So, you know, I think it would be disingenuous to say that I didn't have a reaction. That it wasn't discouraging to see what happened. That there wasn't sadness and anger.

But as a prosecutor, I have to make sure that what I'm doing is reviewing all the facts in the case, reviewing the evidence as it has come through the investigation, taking appropriate charges and then making sure that with the evidence we can go into a courtroom and convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that all three defendants are guilty of all the charges that we bring forward.

CUOMO: How confident are you that you can stave off a stand your ground or self-defense claim basically alleging that the McMichaels had to do what they did, especially the one with the long gun, because Ahmaud Arbery rushed him?

HOLMES: So, I'm sure defense counsel for all three of the defendants are going to have certain defenses and bring forward certain information that they think is going to help them in their case. What we know is the evidence and the facts that we have that brings us towards trial and, again, to the point of asking a jury to find them guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

CUOMO: The man who took the primary videotape that wound up really launching an understanding of this case. He said he was just an innocent bystander. Just following neighbors. He was just documenting what was there. He was trying to be a good guy in all of this. You believe otherwise. Why?

HOLMES: Well, as ministers of justice, if we believe that he was just there taking the video, we would not have taken the charges that we've taken. Again, all the information that we have received, and as the GBI continues and then finalizes their investigation, those are the things that we have taken not just to the initial judge who issued the arrest warrant for Mr. Bryan, but to the judge who heard the preliminary hearing with the defense attorneys and their clients present, and then thirdly to the grand jury that through build and brought forth an indictment with nine charges against each of the three defendants.

CUOMO: What is your theory for the laymen and women to understand about what this was about for the McMichaels? Why do you think this happened?

HOLMES: Well, you know, much of that information is going to come out in the trial. I have said any time that I've spoken that I think it's very important for this case to be tried in the courtroom.

Of course, there are so many people who are interested in this case, for a number of reasons. You know, for those who definitely share sympathy and the tragedy that it is, not just to the community, but more specifically to Ms. Wanda Cooper-Jones and Mr. Marcus Arbery and the rest of his family that we make sure that we -- while we hear the cries, while we hear the public sentiment that we've got to take forward the facts into the courtroom and not try this case in the court of public opinion.

CUOMO: Do you think you'd be able to bring this case if you didn't have a videotape?

HOLMES: You know, a lot of people have asked that question, and there's been a lot of conversation about it. What I know is that we have to show everything that we have once we get to trial. And that we're going to obviously make the video a part of that.

CUOMO: Without videotape, it seems that the ability to secure justice in use of force cases -- now, these guys weren't police officers. I don't believe they were working under color of any type of official authority, but that will be your case to make and dismiss, but how important is videotape in general, do you believe, in terms of prosecuting but just investigating and understanding these confrontations?

[22:40:09]

HOLMES: I think that they are very important. And I say -- they do definitely play a piece, not just in the investigation but as the case moves forward.

You know, every department, at least locally here in Georgia and in Cobb County, has video whether it be dash cam or body camera. And they've been important in investigations on either side of the case. So, it is very important. It will be a piece of this case and we'll have other information that will go along with that to the jury.

CUOMO: Well, to be sure, everybody will be watching. Ahmaud Arbery deserves justice. His family deserves justice. And the case fits into an obvious and larger context about what this country is struggling with right now. I wish you good luck in the administration of justice.

HOLMES: Well, thank you, and thank you for having me.

CUOMO: God bless you and the family.

HOLMES: Thank you so much. Take care.

CUOMO: This election could be a referendum on the handling of two pandemics. Racism and COVID. There are new numbers that the wizard of odds will walk us through. What do they mean for the president? More than four months out, of course, but it's a moment in time. Let's check it out next.

[22:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: So, what do we know? The president mocked Joe Biden's mask, but now he's wearing one. Can he match Joe Biden's numbers as easily as he can his wearing of a mask? He is behind in the polls, and more important than the number is the reason.

Let's bring in the wizard of odds, Harry Enten. Hello, wiz. I wish you the best for Independence Day weekend. I'm sorry you shaved.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: You know what? My mother gave me a call. She said, Harry, you have to shave if you're going to go on television with Christopher, and you know what? Like a good Jewish boy, I listened to my mother.

CUOMO: Well, you have a great mom and you are a smart son, no question about it. So, first, let's establish the why. The COVID is no more a question mark. This election is going to be a referendum, if not of the man, of the moment, true?

ENTEN: I think that's absolutely true. I think, you know, if you look at the polling that we have right now, what you see is that Joe Biden is the one who is doing the best right now on COVID. And that's -- we've seen across polls. There was a Pew Research poll out this week that showed that exact thing. And so essentially, you know, this should not be surprising to me.

CUOMO: Where is slide two, May and June in the Gallup poll to show the nation's most important problem among adults?

ENTEN: Yes, and I think --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Good. Whenever Harry talks, you should have numbers covering his face if he's not going to have a beard on. This is what you were speaking about. Explain.

ENTEN: Yes, so, essentially what we see is if we're talking about the most important problem, is that what we're talking about, Christopher?

CUOMO: Yes, sir.

ENTEN: Yes, looking at the most important problem what you see is that in the Gallup poll, coronavirus and diseases, 30 percent of Americans say that is the most important problem in the average of the May and June Gallup polls and that is higher than the economy. It is higher than even satisfaction with the government. And it is higher than race relations at this point.

So, to me, what's very clear at this point is that the COVID and coronavirus is going to be a major player in this election.

CUOMO: Boy, all the outrage on the streets. All the discussion in the media. All the cases, still just 12 percent, but that is measuring the top issue. Hopefully it's an issue in the top three for people, but we'll see. Now slide one. A Monmouth poll has Biden at 12. A new Pew poll, similar, Biden at 10. Why do you believe these numbers at this point in time?

ENTEN: I mean, look, we have a lot of them, so that indicates that these polls are well -- all these results are well outside the margin of error. They clearly show that Joe Biden is ahead, and as we spoke about last week, right, what we know is that the -- at this point if an incumbent is polling below the high 40s, we know that that incumbent is in major trouble whether it be Jimmy Carter in '80 who I think is the best analogy for this year or whether it be George H.W. Bush in 1992 who is polling in the low 30s when he was facing up against Bill Clinton and Ross Perot.

CUOMO: Well, probably don't need to look for an October surprise, though, who knows in this administration because you're having it right now, and coronavirus winds up being a metaphor issue for how you're leading, what your messaging is and what the reaction to that is within people.

So that takes to us slide three here. Handling of coronavirus. Biden is beating Trump. Explain this to me when Biden has nothing to do with it.

ENTEN: Well, I think what it means is, you know, if you look at the Pew Research poll that was out this week, they asked how confident are you that someone will be able to handle the coronavirus outbreak?

And what we saw was Joe Biden was leading by double digits, and I think it's because the President of the United States is going on TV every day -- or used to be going on TV every day -- and people are seeing his reaction versus that of Joe Biden.

Most Americans want to wear a mask, say that they should be wearing masks and the president has generally been refusing to wear a mask out in public while Biden has been wearing one, so to me, it's not so surprising if most people have confidence in Biden versus Trump on this issue.

[22:49:54]

CUOMO: Best indication that these numbers mean something is the president's change on masks. It's always been good advice. It's always been the right thing to do, but as we know from the reporting, there is this bizarre and kind of disgusting division in the White House about whether or not he should own the reality of COVID. Sad metaphor for the moment.

And what is the distinguishing feature of this next slide on the issue of trust on coronavirus? What's the difference between handling coronavirus and trust on coronavirus?

ENTEN: Well, I think what's so key here is, you know, sometimes you see certain variables and you wonder whether or not they're correlated. But if you trust Joe Biden over Donald Trump handling the coronavirus those voters are going over 95 percent for Joe Biden, and just 2 percent for Donald Trump.

So, if Donald Trump is going to come back in this election, what's so important is that he has to regain trust in the coronavirus, otherwise frankly, Christopher, he's done.

CUOMO: Now, four months. How about this scenario, wiz, people are scared by what's happening right now? They thought this was going to go away, just like their passion for paying attention to it did, but it didn't, so now they're scared. They'll start doing the right thing. There will be some rollbacks, there will be some freezes and then there will be some steady re-openings.

So now, you got some months under your belt, schools reopen, they do it in smart fashion, they do it in staged ways so that as we get closer to November, there is recovery, the numbers are better, the economy is starting to bubble a little bit. There's less distress. Now doesn't everything change? ENTEN: Maybe, but keep this in mind, Chris. There have been over 50

polls that have been conducted this year via live interview. You know how many of them Donald Trump has led in? Zero, zero, zero. He was trailing before the coronavirus and he's trailing worse now after it's hit.

You know, people say only if there's mean reversion, we go back to the way things used to be, that just means Donald Trump is trailing by mid the high single digits instead of low double digits. So, he needs to turn around something very, very fast, otherwise, again, I'll just say this, I just don't really see a way he can win. We're four months out so we'll see what happens but he's in a lot, lot of trouble.

CUOMO: Turnout that the left becomes fractured. That it's not binary. It's not Trump or bust and they have to look at their option and they find Biden lacking enough that you don't see the numbers of blacks, you don't see the numbers of minorities, you don't see the numbers that you need to come out, come out the way they must to reflect these polls at the polls.

ENTEN: You know what, liberals and very liberals are going 90 percent plus for Joe Biden at this particular point. Yes, they're not necessarily enthusiastic about him but they are very enthusiastic to turn out against the president. And what we see in polls over and over and over again, is that those people who say that they are very likely to vote or certain to vote they tend to be Democratic as well as Republican.

It doesn't seem to me that we're going to have a big difference in turnout between the two sides so these registered voters polls, to me, are probably a pretty good indication of where we're going to end up.

And the other thing I'll just add is, turnout is not going to explain away a 10, 11 or 12-point deficit. Maybe it gets it down to 8. But if the president really wants turnout to be the thing that makes a difference in this election it has to end up close to a three, four, five-point margin. And to be perfectly frank, Chris, we haven't seen those types of margins since I last saw you in the office.

CUOMO: Last question, test of your honesty, who organized those books behind your head?

ENTEN: That would be the young woman with whom I live with who organized those books. I definitely have nothing to do with them. I don't even own a book. You know, maybe if you wrote one, I might read it but the fact of the matter is I just read most of the stuff that I get on the internet, to be perfectly honest with you.

CUOMO: I'm glad you were honest about it. You made Oscar Maddox look like Felix.

ENTEN: You know what, I'll take --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You don't need to know who those guys are, you're too young. Strong reference. Good for you, Harry Enten. Just one more reason that I love you. Have a great weekend. Thank you, wiz. Be well.

ENTEN: You're beautiful, stay beautiful.

CUOMO: Tonight, Ameri-cans stood up to hate after a social media post targeted a Starbucks barista. He was just trying to keep people safe, man. He's doing what's right. And you know what, a good guy finally won in a surprising way. Let this take you into a good night, next.

[22:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: We all have to do our fight -- what? We all have to do our part in this fight against COVID. It's pretty simple to say. It's also simple to do. Keep your distance, wash your hands, wear a mask.

Tonight's Ameri-can't was a maskless San Diego woman who walked into a Starbucks that requires face coverings. The barista who you see here, asked, "do you have a mask on you"? She says, he says, she flipped him off. Started swearing at him. Took a photo of him that she posted on Facebook with this message.

Meet Lenin from Starbucks who refused to serve me because I'm not wearing a mask. Next time I'll wait for cops and bring a medical exemption. Seriously? The woman did not get the hate she wanted. Instead she was quickly called out. Support for Lenin poured in with people wishing they could tip him for his work.

That led to a GoFundMe page. That led to over $100,000 from Ameri- cans. Lenin said he's going to use some of the money to pursue dreams of becoming a dancer and he's going to donate some to community groups.

How about that. Be an Ameri-can, be like Lenin, try to ask people to do the right thing. Don't be like this lady. This is not about your freedom, your freedom to wear or not wear a mask ends where it encroaches on somebody else's freedom not to get sick from you, OK?

[23:00:04]

Surrender the me to the we. Interdependence day. Sounds great.