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Cuomo Prime Time

Trump Says He Has "Good Relationship" With Fauci While White House Puts Out Oppo-Like Research To Discredit Him; Kudlow: White House Considering Financial Incentives To Open Schools; Washington's NFL Team Dropping Redskins Name. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 13, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: According to the Washington Post, those sponsors, including FedEx, which owns the naming rights to the team's stadium, then demanded the team change its name.

According to Sports Business Daily, the new name will not be announced until a later date, due to trademark issues. Some possibilities floated, include the Redtails, an allusion to the Tuskegee Airmen and the warriors.

President Trump, last week, called the change, "Political correctness." Today the Navajo Nation said that July 13th is now "A historic day for all Indigenous peoples around the world."

The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Thank you very much, Anderson. Appreciate it. We'll be taking up that topic tonight as well.

I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.

Another week begins without America having a top-down plan to fight a pandemic. Remember that. That is our biggest problem right now. And Trump is to blame. Period!

Cases are soaring. Too many places are still not doing what we must. Tests are not easy to get everywhere needed, and return times, as you know where you live, can last days or more, for too many.

And Dr. Anthony Fauci is not to blame for any of this. Trump is. Period!

And now that the reality is sinking in, to Blue and Red, to Left, Right and Reasonable, Trump is doing what he always does, trying to shift blame to someone else. And we must reject efforts to shift stink onto the one man we can trust.

A Medal of Freedom recipient, Adviser to six Presidents, he has been straight with you, including being straight about having a late start, and having to change guidance on threat assessment, on masks and transmission risks.

Why? Because, as the facts changed, the positions changed. That's OK, if done quickly, and transparently.

But his principles, has Tony Fauci ever not given you the information that he had? Has he ever not been straight about the risks? Has he ever not warned you that not getting cases down would stall the economy? All of that has remained solid. And that should be the measure of that man.

Now, in these White House attacks, we see their principles on display as well, don't we? "Eat your own. Lie about Fauci. Deny your role and defy the mandate of leadership that we gave you."

And how about using an unnamed official to smear the only credible voice they have on this virus?

Where are the worries about anonymous sources now, Mr. President? This is making America great again? You pardon a convicted liar and lie about a man with a conviction to fight a pandemic, which you apparently lack.

Give us the official that you leaked. Give us any official who wants to argue point-by-point that Fauci is the problem, and not this President? I will give that man or woman my entire show to make the case.

He and the rest of Trump's team were cautious about masks because the word was transmission from hands could be immediate.

And remember, we were in a hole with PPE for first responders. Remember all that desperation? They learned more about how we catch this. They shifted. We got more PPE. They shifted. This country never got into the mode of making PPE the way the President promised, to this day.

Fauci and the rest of Trump's team slept on the threat of community spread early on. Then cases caught fire on the West Coast, and Fauci and others realized the flaw. They woke up and sounded the alarm.

Trump continued to call it a hoax. He continued until this very day.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We test more than anybody, by far. And when you test, you create cases, so we've created cases.

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CUOMO: No! No! No! No! When you test, you expose cases. You don't create cases.

The problem is not the testing. The problem is not enough smart testing and contact tracing, which you and your Vice President promised, months ago, would be in a supply and availability and at effectiveness that is nowhere to be found.

Hospitalizations are going up. Explain that if the issue is just how much testing we're doing. You can't because it's a lie. Contrast that with Fauci.

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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: This is a really serious problem. It is truly historic. We haven't even begun to see the end of it yet.

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[21:05:00]

CUOMO: The men and women who do what Fauci does all agree. You want to criticize Fauci? Go ahead. He put himself in the position. But apply the exact same standard to Trump.

I argue the stick you measure Fauci by will be used to beat Trump into the blundering mess he has been on COVID. And don't miss the deception at play. You think the White House went at Fauci without Trump wanting it?

Remember that when you hear this.

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TRUMP: Well, I have a very good relationship with Dr. Fauci. I've had for a long time, right from the beginning. I find him to be a very nice person. I don't always agree with him.

I get along with him very well. I like him, personally.

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CUOMO: That's how he treats somebody he likes? You know, Trump and I come from the same place. It used to be a joke around there, "With friends like that, who needs enemas."

The only thing that this President likes is a personal win. No matter who else has to lose, even someone he says he likes, like Tony Fauci.

We finally saw the President wear a mask this weekend, five months, more than 130,000 deaths into this pandemic. I guess good for him, for putting aside his vanity, for a fleeting moment, at a hospital that treats some of our wounded warriors.

But imagine if he had been sending the right message all along. Forget about the stupid Instagram videos we all have to suffer through of these crazed, almost exclusively, White people, almost exclusively, Trump supporters fighting masks.

Think about if the right messaging had been in place, from the man at the top, how many lives could have been saved? Does the mask prove this isn't a hoax?

Speaker Pelosi calls the face covering an admission from Trump that if you want to stop the spread, you have to wear one. Whether he admits it or not, that's the truth.

But what does he value? He wears the mask and then he goes right back to retweeting conspiracies that the Coronavirus threat is all a lie to take him down. Then, why did he wear the mask? Why?

What's his source? A retired dating game show host named Chuck Woolery, writing that "Everyone is lying. The CDC, Media, Democrats, our Doctors. It's all about the election and keeping the economy from coming back."

Should be said only with tin foil hat on! That's the voice that gets a Presidential Seal of Approval?

And Factual Fauci is the one that he shuts down, leaking negative things through an anonymous source to the press, relegating Fauci to only podcasts and print interviews as of late?

I told you this would happen. I told you, as soon as people started saying things that reinforce the facts and that those facts hurt this President's performance, they'd be silenced. And that's exactly what's happening.

Why? I'll let Fauci answer that. "I have a reputation, as you probably have figured out, of speaking the truth at all times, not sugar- coating things."

Look, I'm not trying to drown you in dread. I'm trying to sound the alarm. Right now matters. Right now is the moment that we must come together, demand truth from power.

We have to get our kids back in school. We have to get as many of them as we can. We have to get as many of us as we can back to work. It is not yes, or no. It's how? We need a plan from Trump. We need to wear masks. We need to socially distance. We need to wash our hands like crazy. I got the same chapped hands you have.

The most populated State in the nation just made a big move, re- imposing restrictions, to do it right. The push was "Reopen, ready or not." That's how the Red states thought that they would please Trump. It was a mistake.

So now, let's start asking the right questions, let's start putting ourselves in the right positions, to get back where we must be right away. We have a former top American Health Official, former Acting CDC Director, who went through a big crisis like this, Dr. Richard Besser.

Known you for a long time, I'll tell you what. None of us has ever seen anything like what they're trying to do to Fauci.

Can you imagine if when you were trying to keep America straight, on what you were dealing with, in the CDC, the President had his people trash-talking you to blame you for what was going on? DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING CDC DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT & CEO, ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION: Yes, you know, Chris, in 2009, when I was running CDC during the start of Swine Flu, Dr. Fauci and I were often side by side.

What you want to see in the response to a pandemic is the Lead from the National Institutes of Health, which is Dr. Fauci, and the Lead from CDC, which is usually the CDC Director, talking together, one talking, that hard science, and one talking public health.

[21:10:00]

In this pandemic, Dr. Fauci has been the voice of all of public health science. And I have to say that, you know, he's a - he is a brilliant scientist, a committed public servant. He is somebody who speaks truth to power.

And he's walked a fine line, across his entire career, in being successful in the administrations of both parties. He is a true scientist and leader. And we should be following the recommendations that he's putting forward.

CUOMO: Let's hope this doesn't happen. But if he - you know, look, this is an old-school guy from New York and, you know, Italian guy. He made his family proud. He, you know, has that typical immigrant story, of coming here and doing things the family never even dreamed possible. He's got a lot of pride, too.

If he leaves because he's like, "I'm not playing this stupid toxic politics game," what could happen?

BESSER: Well, you know, I know Dr. Fauci, and he doesn't walk away. He will - he will stay with us.

He may not have a voice out there that's as easy to hear. And that's part of the problem, the clash of messages, where you have every public health leader, in the nation, talking about this being early days, and what we do right now matters.

You laid out those things individuals need to do, in terms of masks and social distancing and hand washing.

There are things the government has to do, in terms of providing support to everyone in America, so that everyone has the opportunity to protect themselves, their families and communities. A lot of those supports are going away.

You know, in a few days, the Federal protection for eviction and mortgage foreclosure goes away. What happens then to people who have to decide, do they go to work, if they've been exposed because they want to pay that rent?

We need those Federal supports coming back in. And you need a voice at the top that's talking public health science, that's making the case for why we need to have those systems in place. CUOMO: So, I had somebody come up to me, this weekend, and she was in a panic that "Don't stop talking about the testing. We still can't get the test. We can't get the test." I hear this all over the country.

BESSER: Yes.

CUOMO: We have to get our kids back in school. It's not a binary thing. You can't get the economy back. Families aren't going to make it, having to educate their kids and find a way to feed them at the same time.

BESSER: Right.

CUOMO: But how, Richard, how can it be true that this - forget about the "Everyone is going to be able to have a test whenever they want it, promise." It's not coming through.

But how can it still be five days, seven days, nine days, 10 days, to get a test result, and how do we fix that, so that a community has got a fighting shot of knowing what's going on, in its ranks, when it's reopening its schools?

BESSER: Yes. I mean it's not going to work unless your turnaround time for a test is two days or less. And you're not going to be able to get schools open if you can't control spread in the community.

And there are states that are doing it. And they're worried because they see what's going on, around the country, and in many other places.

If you can drive the cases down, and we did that in many states, by people staying at home, and that was hard, and then slowly, carefully trying to reopen the economy, but when you do that, when you drive the cases down, to a manageable number, and if you have testing available with rapid turnaround, and you have contact tracers, and you're providing support, so that everyone has a safe place to isolate or quarantine, then you can get this under control like the - almost every country in the European Union has done, and countries across Asia have done.

It's doable. When you see it being done elsewhere, we can come together as a nation, and we can do it here.

CUOMO: I'll tell you what, every other country though was all top- down. And here, look, we're all about states' rights. Everybody understands that a lot of this is done at the State level.

But we also all understand, and you, better than everybody, that they often need help. And whether it's where you are--

BESSER: Yes.

CUOMO: --in Jersey, or here in New York, yes, the numbers are much better now, relatively, but testing is still taking too long in too many places here as well. What's going to happen?

BESSER: Yes.

CUOMO: Richard Besser, we know you'll be watching. And thank you, in advance, for helping us, find our way through this together.

BESSER: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Be well, brother.

Team Trump keeps insisting "All kids should be in school," of course they should, "No matter what." Wrong! Wrong! You have to have a plan. You have to help states and communities.

More importantly, why should we listen to the Administration over the science? What does the science say about the risks? Let's turn to our Chief Doctor, next.

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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

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[21:15:00]

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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

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CUOMO: The White House Press Secretary, today, questioned whether kids can contract or spread the virus, citing the CDC Director.

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KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would point you to the words of the CDC Director, who said children are not very affected by this and typically are not spreaders.

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CUOMO: Now, look, they won't let him come on, but I welcome the Head of the CDC to come here and make the case that children don't really get affected and children can't really spread this.

We know they get the virus. My kid got it. Some have even died from it, no, not at the rate of adults. But we know that they can transmit it. We don't know exactly how they compare to the rest of us.

But the key part is, we don't know. So, what do you do when you don't know? Do you double-down on the dumb aspect of your ignorance? That's what the White House is doing. Why?

You know why. Because "Ready or not, reopen," that's what they want from schools, so much so that the President is considering using funding as a motivator.

Now remember, Federal funds to State education affect the neediest kids most. So, you're going to affect the population that's getting the most sick, that has the most injustice in this country.

Here's what his Economic Adviser said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KUDLOW, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER: President has argued that he is looking at the potential to defund if the schools do not open. Ms. DeVos said the same thing.

Now, having said that, I think the President would be willing to consider additional funding for State and Local governments, if the schools do reopen. So, that's, perhaps, an incentive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: There's another guy they won't let come on the show to argue this nonsense that he's putting out there with the Friendlies.

[21:20:00]

Look, what you should do is have a plan to help the states do what they need to do to reopen schools. They will have a long list of asks. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is back.

On a science, Doc, great to see you, God bless you and the family, love you, brother, what do we know about kids?

Are we good with me saying, "No, we're good, Sanjay. Man, they don't spread like you and I would. They don't really get that sick. If they do get sick, it's like one in a gazillion, and it's going to be asymptomatic. We're good to go."

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, I mean now we have some actual data, right? I mean there's a couple things to keep in mind, as you look at some of the data.

We can put it up on the screen.

We know kids can get this virus. We know that they can carry this virus in their nose, their mouth. Take a look there because this is important. If you do the math there, 5-year-olds to 17-year-olds, it's about 5 percent or so of the overall Coronavirus impact in the country. So, it's not negligible.

With regard to transmissibility, that's a question mark. You know, there's been a bunch of studies. We've been reporting on this for some time. A couple things to keep in mind, kids can transmit the virus.

Whether or not they're transmitting at a higher, or lower, or the same rate, as adults, we don't know for sure. They seem to be able to have more contacts, though. You go into school. You're going to come in contact with more people. So, even if they're transmitting at a lower rate than adults, it may

get washed out or increased, essentially, because they have more contact. So, you have to take all these things into account, Chris.

What I think is interesting is part of the reason we don't really know about the transmissibility, especially with young kids, so you think about it, young kids, in particular, really kind of have been at home mostly, since March. I mean, they gotten out a little bit, but not as much as older kids, or adults, certainly.

So, as a result, even when we look at this 4,000-person, 5,000-person, studies, oftentimes it only accounts for, you know, a couple dozen, three dozen, four dozen, kids, young kids. So, we just don't know right now. They do spread the virus--

CUOMO: Well what about this information about several states and localities reporting an uptick in younger people, ages 18 to 40? I wish 40 were young! But, you know, contracting the virus, even being hospitalized, how do you account for that?

GUPTA: Yes. No, I mean, I think that there is - I think once you start to get these very high numbers, even if it's a smaller percentage, the absolute number is still going to be high. That's the reality.

I mean, you look at these numbers, sure, they're overall smaller percentage.

But the idea that because, even if they've been, you know, less likely to get severely ill, or hospitalized, once you start getting into these thousands of new infections a day, even if you have a smaller percentage that are likely to get ill, in that younger age group, it's still going to be a high number.

That's why you hear about, you know, a 11-year-old in Florida who died. That's why you're hearing about teenagers who are getting quite sick. In Texas, there were several people, who were needing ECMO that were all young people.

That's just because the overall numbers have gotten so high, you're going to affect all these age populations. I think the big question really, Chris, is overall with transmissibility in a school, it's not a bubble.

And you're going to have staff coming in and out, you're going to have teachers, you're going to have people who are going to be considered vulnerable, either because of age or pre-existing conditions.

How can you best protect them in a way that makes them feel comfortable to be able to do that? That's going to be the big question. Kids are then going to go home.

I'll tell you my thing, Chris, and you know this because we've been talking about this since March, is that we still don't have very good testing.

If you could have a very rapid, accurate, on-site test that the children, the students, as well as faculty, could take, have some physical confidence and psychological confidence both, with regard to whether or not they have the virus, I think it'd go a long way.

We seem to have just completely abandoned the possibility of that whereas other countries, that's exactly what they do and that's why they've been able to get ahead of this.

CUOMO: Tony Fauci, you talk to him on a regular basis. You've gotten to observe him here and, by the way, multiple times in the past.

What do you think of the idea of the White House trying to make him the guy to look at, if you want to wonder why things aren't perfect?

GUPTA: It's dispiriting, really, Chris. I mean, you can't believe it. I mean, we got a real problem on our hands.

As you pointed out, at the top of the show, we need to come up with a cure or a solution to this problem. This is just taking us backwards. I see - you see it coming, Chris. I mean, you and I have talked about this.

You know, the Task Force briefings went away. Dr. Fauci got increasingly marginalized. It wasn't so much that they didn't dislike him. They just didn't want to see him, out of sight, out of mind. He reminded them of something they didn't want to think about.

And now, this active disinformation campaign, it's astonishing, Chris, but, in some ways, not surprising because there is this anti-science sentiment. You see with vaccines and autism, you see it with climate change.

The difference here is that this anti-science sentiment is so urgent.

CUOMO: Right.

GUPTA: It matters so much right now. And that's why I think it's really come to a head. That's really unfortunate. We need to be listening to this guy.

[21:25:00]

CUOMO: I mean I just hope that Fauci just holds on and remembers why he's there because, look, you know him well personally, so do I. He's not the kind of guy to get pushed around.

And I'm just worried, God forbid, he leaves, and he says, "You know what? I've done this long enough. I've done what I can. I've put stuff in place. I'm not playing this Fool's Game." Then what do we do?

Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much for keeping us, you know--

GUPTA: You got it, Chris.

CUOMO: --kind of level on this, and understanding what is and what needs to be. Be well.

GUPTA: Any time, brother, you too. Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. So, one of the President's top former aides just had this big change of heart on the Coronavirus threat. Why? Because it impacted his own family.

What former Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney said back when in his White House days, and what he's saying now? Next.

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[21:30:00]

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CUOMO: "Hoax of the day," that's how former White House Acting Chief of Staff, Mick Mulvaney, who was also a Member of Congress, described all the media attention on Coronavirus, just back in February.

Listen.

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MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The reason you're paying so - that you're seeing so much attention to it today is that they think this is going to be what brings down the President. That's what this is all about. It's not a death sentence. It's not the same as - as the Ebola crisis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Feeding that red meat BS to the faithful, "Yes, be angry. Yes, hate everybody else," like many Team Trump members. Then he gets out, and now he gets religion on reality.

In an Op-Ed today, he writes, "I know it isn't popular to talk about in some Republican circles, but we still have a testing problem in this country. My son was tested recently. We had to wait five to seven days for results. My daughter wanted to get tested before visiting her grandparents, but was told she didn't qualify. That is simply inexcusable at this point in the pandemic."

You see, that's why I test them the way we do on this show, because now, he wants to live the reality. We know that people, like him, are covering for false facts, and

playing divisive politics, like he did at CPAC. And then he gets to write an Op-Ed like this, like he's reasonable? You want the truth when they are in power.

I'm sorry about his family and them having to deal with it. Families all over this country have been dealing with that for a long time, and he knows why.

So, we want truth while they're in power, like Atlanta's Mayor. She and her family are living with COVID right now.

Listen.

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MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, (D) ATLANTA, GEORGIA: It took us eight days to get our testing.

Had we known that we had someone in the house who was asymptomatic, we would have taken all due precautions, but this is the issue that we are having across this country. And it's the reason we cannot get to the other side of this virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Keisha Lance Bottoms, hotshot Mayor, Atlanta, big City, Georgia, relevant State. They talk about her about maybe being Biden's choice as VP on the ticket. She can't get her kids tested and the results in less than eight days?

The Mayor is back to shine a light on what her family is learning in real-time, and what she sees as the battle ahead, next.

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[21:35:00]

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CUOMO: All right, something that you have to keep in mind. Of course, school decisions, local health matters, they are dealt with, at the State level, and at the municipality level, cities and whatnot.

But that is especially true when there is no plan on the Federal level. And that's where we are, in the middle of this pandemic that local politicians are almost on their own.

So, what happens when the Rs and Ds don't line up, as the President is making more and more of a reality, every day, on this pandemic? You get situations like Atlanta. The Mayor says, "We got to go back to strict stay-at-home rules." The Governor says "No." Why? Let's discuss.

Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms is facing this political reality, also facing the reality of this virus in her own home.

Mayor, you look well. Good to see you.

BOTTOMS: Thank you, Chris. Good to see you, and thank you for having me.

CUOMO: So, give me a quick take. How is it in the household?

BOTTOMS: We're doing so much better. I'm a little more fatigued than usual, but nothing compared to my husband.

And he's staying up a bit more. So, compared to how he was just a few days ago, he's had a miraculous turnaround. And, of course, my child is healthy as can be, completely asymptomatic.

CUOMO: Beautiful! The men are the weak ones. That is the lesson that every household seems to learn. The same thing happened in the Cuomo House. The women made it through stronger, the men suffer.

Let me ask you something, though. Thank God your family's moving in the right direction and quickly. The big-shot Mayor of Atlanta, talked about, as a potential VP choice, running mate, for Joe Biden, how fast could you get your family tested?

BOTTOMS: It took eight days. And it's just - it tells you what a failure in testing that we have in this State. We took a test June 29th. I did it as routine testing because I had attended a funeral.

And, eight days later, by the time we had gotten that test back, I had taken another test through Emory University, got those results back. And by then, the three of us were all positive. But when we got the 29th results back, our child was positive and asymptomatic then.

And it's happening all over this country. And I've said it before, I'll say it again, this is the - it's no secret why we can't get to the other side of this pandemic. It's because we're failing with testing and we're failing with contact tracing.

CUOMO: So, you deal with this personally.

You look at the numbers, 25 new deaths from this. The Georgia Department of Health says you got 3,600 new cases, 120,000 cases totally. You know, hundreds in additional hospitalizations, the key metric. Fulton County, that's where most of Atlanta is, 10,595 total cases, 324 deaths.

You say, "Look, we got to take a step back. Stay home except for essential trips. Wear the mask is a must. Restaurants, only doing to- go and delivery," the Governor says, "Slow down. We don't need it," overrules you.

Your take?

[21:40:00]

BOTTOMS: Chris, it is baffling to me that the Governor, who did not know that this was even transmitted, through asymptomatic transmission, is still not looking at the science and the data.

I didn't pull this out of the air. We had an Advisory Commission, a few months ago, that was comprised of Fortune 500 business representatives, small business owners, people from public health entities, across the board, representative of the community.

We work with Bloomberg Associates to come up with a set of metrics that would determine how Atlanta moved through phases of reopening.

We had moved to Phase 2. Per the data and the metrics, based on where we are with ICU capacity, based on where we are with transmission rates, based on a number of scientific, independently-vetted data, we've now had to go back to Phase 1. I took no joy in going back to Phase 1.

CUOMO: Well can you go--

BOTTOMS: But I'm following the science and the data.

CUOMO: --if he says "No?" If he says "No"--

BOTTOMS: We certainly can--

CUOMO: --can you go?

BOTTOMS: --which they are recommendations. And thankfully, businesses, across this City, are following those recommendations.

CUOMO: So it's an ask.

BOTTOMS: So, we certainly can, as a City.

And in the world's busiest airport, which we own and operate, we can also mandate masks because it is a City-owned asset. And that has been supported by Delta Air Lines. And it's one of our largest job centers in the State. So, that's going to make a big difference in our State.

CUOMO: So, I saw you with my brother, today, New York's Governor. And look, it's all good for you guys to work together all over the country. We're seeing it all the time, especially during the pandemic.

But why? Why does Atlanta's Mayor need help from New York when it comes to testing? You're a big State. You've got a Red Governor. Why isn't it coming from the Federal? Why isn't it coming from the State?

BOTTOMS: That's the million-dollar question, Chris. And we didn't have to look to Italy to see where we were headed in this country. We could look to New York.

Your brother was on television, every day, telling us what was happening in New York, and what would happen in our cities and states, if we did not heed the warnings, and if we did not take certain precautions.

When I look at the numbers in this State, I am disgusted by them. I am seeing numbers and rates of infection going up in ways that I have not seen since April. And they're jumping even faster by the day.

And what angers me, on top of all of the death and sickness, to have to look at our children, and tell them that they likely will not be able to go back to school in the fall, because we had all of spring, we had all of summer, we said to our kids, "Hang in there. It's going to be fine come fall," and we're back to where we started.

And, in Georgia, I hate to say it, but it looks like we're going to be even worse than we were in the spring, if this transmission continues at this rate. When we opened up, people started flocking to our State and to our City because we were open for business without any restrictions.

CUOMO: What would you do - you know, you're blessed with having kids, very much school age. If we were a month and a half from now, you know, right there, it's Labor Day, how would you feel about sending the kids back to school?

BOTTOMS: Well, in Georgia, we usually open up in August, so we open up between the first part and middle of August. So, it's upon us.

It's a tough one for me personally, because three of my children, who will be going back to school, all have varying degrees of asthma. But one has it much worse than the others.

So, I'm having to make the decision "Do I send all three back? Do I send two back and let one stay back?" I don't know what that decision will be. It's going to be a tough decision. And it's also going to be based upon what the school is able to offer in terms of barriers, etcetera.

But again, it's not just about our kids, because I have one who's asymptomatic in my house now. It's about the teachers. It's about the custodians. It's about the cafeteria workers. I'm equally concerned about them.

CUOMO: And who they have at home? Are they taking care of elderly? Do they have people with health risks in their vicinity and in their household? A lot of questions, that's why you got to have planning, you got to have help from above.

And now you see that, even sharper than you ever did, because you're living it, at the same time.

Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, I'm so happy to hear that your family is making it through, at - to this point, you know, knock on wood, without any grave incident. It's good to see you working with other states to get what you need.

I did hear that you noted that the Governor of New York, you said, was much smaller in person than you expected. I just wanted that out there for the record. We'll leave it at that. No reason to respond.

You take care. I'll talk to you next time, Mayor.

BOTTOMS: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you.

CUOMO: Stay healthy.

[21:45:00]

You know, just had to correct - you know just got to keep it for the record.

The Washington Redskins finally bowing to years of public pressure and dropping their team name. What took so long? I don't know. Who cares at this point? The question is what does this mean about other teams with controversial names? Should it mean anything?

Now, this is a good conversation. Bob Costas, legend, Navajo Nation President, legend, dealing with COVID like almost no other place in the country, they, take up this conversation, and the reality, next.

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CUOMO: After mounting pressure from corporate sponsors, and years of advocates pushing, the Washington Redskins decided today to change their name, removing the moniker, which so many people considered offensive to Native Americans.

Navajo Nation President, Jonathan Nez, called the moment "A historic day for all Indigenous peoples around the world." Nez joins us now.

We also have with us CNN Contributor, Bob Costas. In a 2013 essay, he laid out the case against the team, using the name, Redskins.

Gentlemen, thank you.

President Nez, how big a deal is this? What does it mean to you? JONATHAN NEZ, PRESIDENT, NAVAJO NATION: Hey Chris, thank you for having me on the show again. And I am - never thought I would be having sit-down with two legends, of course too, Chris Cuomo and Bob Costas.

And, you know, it is a great day for Indigenous people, not just in this country but all over the world. I think, you know, really, the attention has been placed on Native Americans throughout this country.

And, you know, with this pandemic that hit us hard, you know, we got national attention. And, you know, I think this plays a factor into some of the decisions that are being made here, especially in terms of renaming the Redskins.

And, you know, I commend the NFL, I commend the Washington team, for re-evaluating their name.

And, you know, this name, Redskins is, is a disparaging term that is used. And if anybody were to use that, and I think, you know, Bob mentioned this the other day, if any other team were to use this term, in the 21st Century, it wouldn't even be considered.

And, you know, today, we are moving forward, and in a positive direction, for tribal communities throughout the United States.

CUOMO: Mr. President, just quickly give us this state of play of how you're dealing with the pandemic now? Have you gotten more attention from the Federal government? What is the state of play with cases and sickness and deaths?

NEZ: Well, Chris, you know, I appreciate you having us on your show, and your brother, Andrew, helping us out during our - this tough time.

You know, nationally, we were up high in COVID-positive. But I want to commend the Navajo people. You know, the Navajo people listened to their leaders. And the leaders, like us, bold leaders, listened to our public health professionals.

The public health professionals said "Wear masks, social distance, wash hands and stay home." And many of our public health orders have followed in that recommendation. And we actually even mandated some of these provisions, like wearing masks.

Back in April, we mandated our people to wear masks, and we're still in a shelter-in-place. We do 57-hour weekly curfews. We're actually in a curfew, right now, every weekday, and that has helped--

CUOMO: Good.

NEZ: --flatten the curve and reduce the numbers here.

CUOMO: Bob, the significance of corporate pressure can't be missed in this. How does it change the state of play for Washington to change their name?

BOB COSTAS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, HALL OF FAME BROADCASTER, HOST & ANNOUNCER MLB NETWORK: Well I have always said, and I've said it a few times on CNN in the last 48 hours that the name Redskins is distinct from Chiefs, Braves, Warriors. These others will have to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

And I think it's not so much the names in those cases. It would be the symbols and the rituals, if they were objectionable, and they'd have to consult with the proper people associated with Native Americans to reach a compassionate decision.

But when it comes to the Redskins, this should have been cut and dry long ago, Chris. Every dictionary defines Redskins as insulting, a slur, derogatory, pejorative. By definition, Chiefs, Braves, Warriors, other names associated with Native Americans are not defined that way.

And as President Nez mentioned, a moment ago, could you imagine a team, in the 21st Century, starting out, naming itself something like the Redskins? And what is the equivalent of Redskins when applied to any other ethnic group?

It's a shame that it took this kind of pressure, corporate pressure, not so much the building sense of social justice, and the re- examination of some of the names associated with various teams and entities.

That wasn't so much what brought it about. And it wasn't that all of a sudden they saw the light. It was the corporate pressure. It was FedEx, it was Nike, it was Pepsi and other entities associated with them. But no matter how you get there, they've arrived at the proper decision.

CUOMO: Let's talk about what going forward, it looks like because we've all arrived at the same conclusion. People in power, politicians, CEOs, they often act out of fear of consequence faster than they will out of good conscience.

[21:55:00]

So Bob, in terms of process, what does it look like, going forward, for the - for Washington, but also for other schools, like does the Fighting Irish now have to be reviewed? Is that offensive? Like, you know, what does the--

COSTAS: Well--

CUOMO: --process look like?

COSTAS: They're calling themselves "The Irish" now. Some people may call them "Fighting Irish" out of habit. But officially, they call themselves "The Irish" now.

And just these two examples, the Florida State Seminoles have a happy arrangement, so far, as I can tell, with the Seminole Tribe, and they have approved of that relationship, of the name, and of the rituals. Same things goes to--

CUOMO: St. John's changed. St. John's were the Redmen. COSTAS: Yes. St. John's changed. St. John's changed.

CUOMO: And now they're Red Storm.

COSTAS: Yes. And my alma mater, the Syracuse Orange used to be the Orangemen. So, there - there have been lots of changes.

In fact, Miami of Ohio, as I recall, was until, some years ago, actually named the Redskins, and they changed their name as well. So, I'm not sure exactly that it's a one-size-fits-all thing.

CUOMO: Right.

COSTAS: But when it comes to the Washington team, I know that President Nez has suggested the Code Talkers as a possible new name, because it pays tribute not just to Native Americans but Native Americans as patriots, because the Code Talkers--

CUOMO: Right.

COSTAS: --played an important role--

CUOMO: Huge. Huge in their--

COSTAS: --in our World War II effort. The only thing--

CUOMO: --in the war effort. So, let me do this.

COSTAS: Yes.

CUOMO: I'm out of time for this. But this is a continuing conversation--

COSTAS: Sorry.

CUOMO: --because it's how our culture will move. Bob, welcome to the family. It's a pleasure.

COSTAS: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: You know I've been a fan of yours for a long time.

Mr. President, I told you, when we first spoke, "You can't be forgotten. You are part of the family."

NEZ: Yes.

CUOMO: And either we all make it--

NEZ: Right, we did.

CUOMO: --forward together here, or none of us will. You're always welcome on this show. You always have the platform. Thank God your constituents are listening.

NEZ: Take care. CUOMO: But we wish you the best. We know you have a big fight. President Nez, thank you.

NEZ: Thank you.

CUOMO: Bob Costas, welcome and be well.

NEZ: Take care.

CUOMO: God bless both of you. We're coming back.

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