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Cuomo Prime Time
Graham Defends Dr. Fauci Despite White House Attacks; California State Superintendent On Schools Staying Online-Only Next Month In L.A. & San Diego; Trump Dismisses Outrage Over Police Killings Of Black Americans. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 14, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: They spent nearly 50 years together, raised a son and a daughter. Joan was an active volunteer in her community in Ho-Ho-Kus, New Jersey.
But her favorite title was "Mom." She loved not only raising her own children, but also welcoming all her children's friends into her home. Joan Swanson lived an extraordinary life, and she was 89-years-old.
That's it for us. The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Appreciate it, Anderson.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
The President let another day pass without calling for a plan to fight this pandemic. Instead, he spent his time, continuing his "Up is down" strategy, insisting the virus is under control, and it's under control because of his efforts alone.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We stopped it. We did a travel ban in January.
Like Dr. Fauci said, we would have lost thousands of additional people if President Trump had to do that. And I was a crowd of one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Wait, who? So now he draws on Dr. Fauci to vouchee for him? He cites him as a trusted source. Do you know why, ladies and gentlemen? Because Trump knows Fauci is a trusted source.
So, given what just came out of his mouth, we have to ask. Why is he trying to destroy Fauci? And the answer is because Fauci keeps telling you the truth about COVID-19.
Now, if you want to "Well he was just nice about Fauci. He said he likes Fauci. You're not being fair to the President," OK, if the President isn't behind it, why is his Campaign pushing out a staffer, like Stephen Moore, who is openly trying to smear Fauci's decades-long service? The guy is supposed to be an Economic Analyst.
And what about this, from Peter Navarro, another Trumper? He never wants to talk about anything outside his lane, but now he's a Fauci critic?
These guys want to talk about being trustworthy, and a record of getting things wrong, and yet they work for Trump, and never admit any of his legendary lies?
And look at this, proudly displayed by Dan Scavino, just popped up for a second, it'll come back now, White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Communications. He posted this cartoon, mocking America's top Infectious Disease Specialist, on his Facebook page, as he calls him his "Colleague."
So, yes, Trump is behind this. And, yes, this is how Trump and his trolls treat "Colleagues." More importantly, this is how Trump goes after the people who let you know when he's lying and trying to divide and conquer.
The truth is the man who promised to drain the swamp has created more stench and added more alligators. That's what Trump has done.
Now, if I'm wrong, why doesn't Captain Carnage tell his sycophants to shut up? If he likes Fauci, and believes he's a trusted source, why doesn't he say "Stop?" Why doesn't he correct it?
Because he likes what they're saying. He wants them to say it because he doesn't want you to believe the truth, unless it benefits him.
So, at the same time he says no mask, at the same time he says no testing, he then says "We did the right thing, and here, even Fauci says it." See him for who and what he is.
Trump promised to stop the carnage. And yet, every day, he makes sure it continues. Now, 136,000 dead, a 136,000! It didn't have to be like this. The biggest states continue to reel. They didn't have to do it this way. And Trump & Co. continue to watch.
If I'm wrong, where is Fauci? It's been 18 days since we last saw him at a Task Force press briefing. Why do you need AM Radio to find his appearances? Why silence him during the period of the worst growth in cases?
Think about it. If you think about it, you know why. Why attack Fauci? You do those things to give you a better chance of selling lies, lies that make the Emperor's new clothes as obvious as the big nose in the middle of my face.
Trump wants you to think the problem, think of this, the problem that we have right now, the reason the pandemic is getting us, testing.
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TRUMP: If we didn't test, you wouldn't have all the headlines.
If we did half the testing, we'd have half the cases. If we did another, you cut that in half, would have, yet again, half of that.
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CUOMO: He had to think about what half is, by the way, like half means half as many - my 10-year-old knows better than what he just said.
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By his theory, think about it, we should stop tracking any kind of problem. Then there will be less of them. "We cured cancer. Just don't count the cases." Ridiculous! Especially now with school coming.
No wonder The New York Times and CNN is reporting that the Trump Administration confirmed that, starting tomorrow, they want all hospitals, to send them the COVID data, to HHS, not to the CDC. Why? Why? Experts say that will make it harder for them to understand the data. It will make it harder to access and research the data.
Why would the Trump Administration want hospitals to send the data to a place that makes it harder to access it and understand it? This is so obvious, so stupid, so dangerous, and all proof of why this President won't allow a national plan for testing.
Even Trump's most determined defenders are waving him off of this. Listen.
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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We don't have a Dr. Fauci problem. We need to be focusing on doing things that get us to where we need to go. So, I have all the respect in the world for Dr. Fauci. I think any effort to undermine him is not going to be productive, quite frankly.
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CUOMO: Republican Senator Lindsey Graham saying something like that is like you deciding to eat your own hand. It better be pretty important to even consider doing such a thing.
But this is that important. This plan of divide and conquer, of lie, deny and defy is killing us. We have more dead than this pandemic would have cost us.
If we had been doing the right thing sooner, things that this President denies, measures that he defies, and facts upon which he lies, don't you see that's what this is? That's why he's attacking Fauci.
Fauci is different. He's not going to stay silent like too many we've seen on his team. They're not going to - he's not going to say nothing now, and then he'll leave, and there'll be a book in a couple of months because now he wants to make his witness. He's going to take the heat because he's bigger than politics. He's going to stick because he's about the health of people like you and me.
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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Obviously, the more you test, the more you're going to pick up. So, increase in testing is going to give you increases, but there is no doubt that there are more infections.
And we know that because the percentage of cases, of the - the cases that are tested that are positive is increasing. Therefore, unequivocally, you're seeing truly more new cases.
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CUOMO: And if you don't want the scientific genius answer, you can have the regular guy answer.
If it's about testing, why are hospitalizations going up? Why is, the Governor of Florida not wanting to release hospitalization data? If it's about testing, why are more people getting sick and going to the hospital?
It's - it's the end of the debate. There is no debate because this isn't about the facts. What Fauci just told you is the truth. That's why Trump finally covered his mouth this weekend. You know if he waited this long, to let us see him in a mask, he knows we're in trouble.
His own CDC Director is getting more bold and saying things that are obviously about him.
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DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: I'm glad to see the President wear a mask this weekend, the Vice President.
We need them for - to set the example.
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CUOMO: Now? This many weeks and months in?
It's Dr. Redfield. He also said today "If everyone wore a mask in America, this pandemic could be under control within four weeks to eight weeks." Just think about that, if you take nothing else from the show tonight, OK?
That's Trump's guy. He said it until they start throwing him under the bus. If everybody wore a mask, in the places that you need to, obviously if there's no case spread, then that's different.
This idea that "All of us are having our liberty stripped, and they're going to bind our mouths," if you're in a place where there's case spread, that's what we're talking about.
You want to go live up in the mountains, and there's nothing going on, God bless. It's for people in congested communities where you have case spread.
If everybody does it, where you need to do it, four weeks to eight weeks, we'd change the calculus. Imagine if this President had stopped his BS, a month and a half ago, about masks, when Fauci, and Birx, and everybody were begging you to do it?
Arizona, Texas are requesting refrigerated - refrigerated trucks. Why? You saw it here in New York. Morgues are running out of room for bodies. Hospitals, ICUs, they're running out of beds. Florida broke another record for the most deaths in a single day.
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27 states have had to roll back their reopening plans. Why? Because we didn't do it right. 37 states have rising cases.
You know where this goes. I've been there. It sucks. It will take things from you and your family, you may never get back, and that's if you're lucky and you have mild to moderate cases.
We know what we need to do, and I can't believe we have leadership that has been trying to get us not to do it. We need the best warriors we have to help fight this. We need all of us invested.
Now, here's the good news. Despite the President's perfidy, his lies, his denials, his attacks, we still have a chance to get this thing under control.
We could still have our kids go to school in some form, in some way, in many of the areas. Community by community, but yes, we can still do it. Masks, distancing, washing, be careful now.
Despite these efforts to weaken Fauci, thank God, he is only stronger in his resolve.
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FAUCI: The issue at hand is so important that I think walking away from it is not the solution. I think that would just make things worse.
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CUOMO: I'll tell you, I was surprised. I was surprised. Why? He's been doing this a long time. His legacy is secure.
And for him to have to get trash-talked like this, with this kind of incompetence, you know what kind of mixture that is, for someone like Fauci, to have to take, a bunch of dumb asses trashing you?
Imagine how bad it would be for us, and for Trump, if Fauci were to change his mind. So let's start here. Let's bring in the man who got that answer from Fauci, another public health expert, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed. He is the Host of the Crooked Media podcast, "America Dissected."
Good to see you, Doc.
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, EPIDEMIOLOGIST & PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERT, FORMER DIRECTOR, DETROIT HEALTH DEPARTMENT, HOST, "AMERICA DISSECTED" PODCAST, (D) FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: Great to see you, Andrew - Chris, thank you for having me on.
CUOMO: Whoa! That hurt me worse than COVID. I must look terrible.
So Doc, let me ask you this.
EL-SAYED: I did it on purpose.
CUOMO: So does my Mom!
Let me ask you this. The idea, that the Administration says, "Hospitals all over the country, don't send the data to CDC. Send it to us at HHS," why do experts like you shake your head at that?
It's just one agency versus another. What's the big difference?
EL-SAYED: Now, the CDC is the nation's Health Department. It has been tasked with counting and analyzing disease since its inception. That's what it was in part created to do.
CUOMO: Right.
EL-SAYED: The fact that you're seeing the CDC being marginalized out, both in terms of its presence, on the stage of direction for folks, but then also, now in terms of data analysis, shows that there may be an alternative choice about what they want to do with that data.
Of course, the President has been trying to tell a story about COVID- 19 for a very long time. And, of course, the CDC has been telling the honest truth about it. It's an apolitical organization.
Now, they're realizing that if they really do want to tell the story they want to tell, it would be a lot easier for them to have the data firsthand and bypass the CDC. This is a really frustrating situation because it opens up the door to propagandizing this pandemic.
CUOMO: Well that's what he's doing with testing. I mean, as ridiculous it is to people in your community, this crap works in politics.
"Yes, if we didn't test so much, we'd be fine." I mean, I know it's absurd on its face. Literally, my 10-year-old knows better than that. But it works when it keeps being repeated because people want this to go away.
Nobody wants a pandemic to be worse. We all want it to be better. So, people are susceptible. Trump knows that. But then the calculus becomes "Kill the truth-tellers." And he has to go after Fauci. He's not doing it directly because the guy is too popular. Let's be honest.
You learned that today when you're with him in front of an audience. The idea that Fauci's being attacked for telling people the truth, what's your take on that, and what did you feel when you talk to the man himself?
EL-SAYED: Well, I'll tell you, Anthony Fauci is a legend when it comes to public health.
He's somebody I've looked up to, since I opened up a textbook about infectious diseases, and his name was right there as one of the authors. He has been through this before. He served six Presidents and his resolve is clear.
I'll tell you this, though. He is 79-years-old. He could easily walk out into the sunset. And the reason he's not is because he believes in his work.
He could make way more money doing something else. He could be more famous, if he decided to step out, and write a book about a storied career. He is sticking in because he believes in the public's health.
And I'll tell you one point here. At the end of the day, you don't do this kind of work, you don't do public health, and public service for money. You don't do it for glitz and glamour.
You do it because you believe in people. At some point, in your life, there was something about the empathy of being able to heal somebody that you knew mattered. And so, you stuck in.
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He's been doing this for 32 years. He - there is a reason that we believe him. There's a reason that so many in this country look to him for leadership. It's because he's provided it for so long.
This effort to undermine him, frankly, undermines science and evidence in this Administration, I think, bodes really poorly for the future of this pandemic.
And we've seen what that kind of an Administration, and that kind of leadership that sidestep science, what it creates on the ground, a 136,000 people dead, and some of the fastest transmission in the world.
We didn't have to be here. We shouldn't be here. And with people like Dr. Fauci at the fore, we could have prevented ourselves from being here.
CUOMO: If they'd actually followed his directions. It's no question, to me, why he's been silenced during this most important period. Lucky we get access through people like you and get the word out there, of what the realities are around us.
Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, always a pleasure, be well, my friend.
EL-SAYED: Chris, thank you so much.
CUOMO: God bless.
President claims, parents and students are dying from the trauma of not going back to school. Again, tonight is a night to actually focus on what's being said. That's what he said. "Not going back to school is killing people." The President of these United States said that.
So, why are big parts of California planning to have no kids in school when it starts in a couple of weeks? The skate - the State Schools Chief is here. What does he think of Trump's notion? And also, back to reality, what California could mean for your kids, next.
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CUOMO: We're not going to get to a better place if we don't stop tolerating what's keeping us stuck where we are. Look through that lens at the situation going on in California.
The two largest school districts there, OK, Los Angeles and San Diego, are going to continue remote learning when the new school year begins next month. Remember, the President, last week said, he "May cut off funding" for schools if they don't open.
Now he calls the decision to postpone "A mistake."
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CATHERINE HERRIDGE, CBS NEWS SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: What do you tell parents and teachers who feel that it's unsafe to go back?
TRUMP: I would tell parents and teachers that you should find yourself a new person, whoever is in charge of that decision because it's a terrible decision, because children and parents are dying from that trauma, too. They're dying because they can't do what they're doing.
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CUOMO: Seriously? And even if you did believe that, in La La Land, or whatever color the sky is in his universe, where's your plan to help them do it?
Let's bring in California Schools Superintendent, Tony Thurmond.
Tony, I'm not going to take up your time opining as to whether or not people are dying from not going back to school. The decision to go back to school is all about how. Making this determination to start off remote learning is a function of what?
TONY THURMOND, CALIFORNIA STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: Good evening, Chris.
It's a function of using an abundance of caution to make sure that first and foremost students are safe. And I applaud our larger school districts that have made the decision to opening remote learning because, right now, the data suggests that our schools, if they had to open tomorrow, will not be safe to open.
CUOMO: Why not?
THURMOND: It's always easier to go back from remote learning to in- class and structure (ph) for now, we have to be cautious.
CUOMO: All right, so let's talk about why not, because you know what the counter is. "Now I can't go to work. Now I got to stay home because my kid is remotely learning," which is a nightmare for the parent at home, right, because now we're teachers and parents.
But so what's the calculus there about why it's worth it?
THURMOND: No - no question, you know, kids need to be in school, and that's the most important phase for them. Parents need to go to work, and that's so important, but not at the expense of the safety of our children. We've got to keep our schools safe.
We actually have some counties that can open safely because they have very low rates of infection, and they also have lots of space to maintain the six feet of social distancing that you were talking about.
But unlike those counties, many our counties are dealing with space limitations right now, and they're seeing high percentages of cases. And, right now, people are doing the right thing. We have to be cautious. Right now, safety has to outweigh everything else.
CUOMO: But, Superintendent, "Kids don't get that sick," says the President. "And when they do get sick, they're asymptomatic, and we don't think that they are as contagious as adults are," says the President, and his people.
Why don't you take comfort in those notions?
THURMOND: Well, like you said, that there is evidence that we're seeing an increase in infection, among young people.
And, quite frankly, the science just isn't settled enough for anyone to make a reckless statement that "Kids can't, you know, transmit illness to those who have vulnerable conditions."
And so, you know, and to make any suggestions about cutting off funding to schools is just reckless and dangerous.
Right now, what we need is for the President and Congress to really say "We're going to send more resources to our schools," so we have more personal protective equipment, we have more computers, so our kids who have to be in distance-learning, can still learn, and do so safely.
CUOMO: How much contact have you had with the Federal government, in terms of how to reopen schools, what the risks are, and how they can help you manage that?
THURMOND: You know, it's been limited. I would say that we've had a great California Congressional Delegation. They've been very focused on how to get us more resources to help us with reopening, to help us with computing devices for our students.
In terms of the Department of Education or the Administration itself, very limited. I mean, we've reached out for more support, even around providing meals to hungry kids. We provide meals at 5,000 locations and--
CUOMO: Well you're not going to - you're not going to provide meals, if they cut the Federal funding, because isn't it true that Federal funding for State education largely affects the neediest kids, including school meals and access to school for the neediest?
Isn't that where that money goes that the President is threatening to pull?
THURMOND: Absolutely. And, right now, this State is leaving millions of dollars on the table that are needed to feed hungry kids.
Right now, we need action from the Federal government that's going to keep us safe, and allow us to address counseling needs, and basic needs, of our students, while we figure out how to educate them safely.
CUOMO: Once we get into the school year, I already know that part of the California plan is to deal with that gap of lack of attendance, but still getting the meals. It's hard.
Delivery is hard. Having to keep schools open, so kids can get them, but how do you keep it safe? I know it's hard. I know you're working on it. I'm not going to go at you about it, until I see it in action.
And then, come back on, please, Tony Thurmond, and let's talk about the realities in your State. Superintendent, thank you.
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THURMOND: Thank you. Thank you for getting the message out. And continue to be safe and be well.
CUOMO: And just remember, for you at home, when you hear the President sound strong and say, "Hey, I'll pull the funding," remember who he'd punish. Not Tony Thurmond. The neediest kids and the food that they get that is often their best chance at nutrition for the day. That's the strength that he's suggesting.
We can't forget about the fight in this country. The pandemic is an extension of the overall fight for opportunity, for safety and social justice. Those who are getting the most sick are the same people crying out for social justice.
The President reminded us today of the need to stay aware, when he said that asking why Blacks suffer at the hands of police was a horrible question. And wait until you hear what he said the real problem is.
I'll give you a hint. His feelings are toxic, and they're spreading like a hate virus. The facts are the cure, and we have them next.
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CUOMO: All right, so we now know why President Trump won't discuss systemic racism. It's because he doesn't believe it exists.
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HERRIDGE: Let's talk about George Floyd. You said George Floyd's death was a terrible thing.
TRUMP: Terrible!
HERRIDGE: Why are African-Americans still dying at the hands of Law Enforcement in this country?
TRUMP: And so are White people. So are White people. What a terrible question to ask. So are White people. More White people by the way, more White people.
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CUOMO: All right, this stops now.
First, side observation. Trump and the word "Truth" share the first two letters, they have the same total number of letters, but they share absolutely nothing else.
Of course, more White people die at the hands of police. Why? We are 70 percent of the country, that's why.
And when we talk about people shot by police, just so you know, White people are more likely to have a gun. But when you talk unarmed people being killed by police, the numbers reverse, and quickly.
We're talking about a larger percentage of the Black population dying at the hands of those who are sworn to protect and, yes, you can and should love the police and, at the same time, hate the abuse of force.
Blacks are less than a quarter of the population, but are almost a third of these tragedies. "Well, but that's because they commit more crime, right? That's the secret, isn't it?"
Violent crime rates are higher in Black communities, but why does that mean that there should be more police shootings? Even when you adjust for things like time of day, you see Blacks are more likely to be singled out by police. Those encounters are more likely to come with higher levels of suspicion.
Bottom line, Black people are between about 2 times to 3.5 times more likely to be killed by police. In some cities, it's up to 6 times.
"2 times to 3 times - 6 times, why don't you know? Why not one number?" I'll tell you why. It's hard to track because we do not track these events nationally well. Why? The only conclusion I can draw is we don't really care.
Four years ago, the Head of the FBI said this.
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JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: We need to collect actual, accurate and complete information about policing in this country, so that we have informed debates about things that matter enormously.
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CUOMO: "Enormously." So what happened? The Feds launched a database on police use of force. The first report was supposed to be this year. You know what they released? Nothing.
What you see on camera is Orwellian double-speak in the hands of a demagogue in the form of President Trump, trying to distort a reality too many have lived for too long. The truth is asking about why Blacks still suffer is not a horrible question. It is his answer that was horrible.
When we talk about schools reopening, we're talking about families that are going to be forced to make a very difficult choice, and that's if no one in the family has been infected. I'm going to talk to Sanjay Gupta about that.
And I also want to check back with some of the people we met along the way with COVID. Do you remember Ms. Mandel right there? You need another reason to avoid getting this virus? Watch what's next.
There's a part of the reality that people, like myself, and this great Mom, know about that you don't. Next.
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CUOMO: All right, we have an update to a story we brought to you in April, a family of six battling Coronavirus.
Lauren Thomas Mandel, mother of four, her husband, a doctor, treating COVID patients. He came down with the virus, hospitalized. She ended up getting infected as well as her two oldest kids, teenagers.
Now, the family is Coronavirus-negative. But here's the story that I asked Lauren to help me tell, OK? The battle isn't over yet. I know I told you that they don't have COVID anymore, but that doesn't mean that it's over.
Lauren, welcome back to PRIME TIME. I brought in the "Big Gun," Sanjay Gupta. You look great. I have missed talking to you.
LAUREN THOMAS MANDEL, MOTHER OF FOUR BATTLING CORONAVIRUS SIDE EFFECTS, CORONAVIRUS SPREAD ACROSS THE FAMILY: Thanks.
CUOMO: It was nice checking in. You were very helpful to me. I want the audience to know that. You and Sanjay share that distinction. You were more helpful to me than I was to you.
But I want Sanjay to hear what you and I are living. You don't have COVID. But that doesn't mean that you are a 100 percent well, does it?
MANDEL: No, we are not well. First, I should correct. We took the antibody test and my little ones did end up having it. So, we--
CUOMO: So, they have the antibodies but they were asymptomatic.
MANDEL: They weren't so asymptomatic. I think I was just super-sick, so I didn't know. But I can pinpoint exactly both times when my little ones did have it. So, they had minor symptoms. But very minor, thank goodness.
And now, they're fine. The 15-year-old and I, both have difficulty with our breathing still. She's a lot better than I am.
I'm on two sets of inhalers. Starting on pulmonologist next week. There's something wrong, especially at nighttime, I have difficulty getting that deep breath in. Just doesn't come naturally anymore, and I just have to stop.
The 17-year-old still does not have his taste or smell back. And my husband still has trouble breathing. And he still gets tingling randomly throughout his body for no reason.
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So, you know, we've been doing tests. We've done blood work. We've done everything. And this is still what's coming up.
CUOMO: The blood is what? OK?
MANDEL: Yes. Everything's so--
CUOMO: And you never had problems with asthma or anything like that? You're not a crazy allergy sufferer or anything like that?
MANDEL: So, I am a crazy allergy sufferer. So, I started with my allergist two months ago, as soon as they let me into the - they wouldn't let me in for a while.
Then once I got in, I did everything they said. Had my second set of shots a week ago, and I still can't breathe. He put me on two sets of inhalers, and told me a week later, if I'm not better, make an appointment for pulmonology, and that's what I did today, so.
CUOMO: Can you exercise?
MANDEL: I chase after my kids. That's about as far as I can do it. And then I do sit-down. They know. I don't have the same energy level that I used to. I can't play with them outside like I used to. I find myself sitting down, you know, a lot more often than I did.
CUOMO: All right, so Sanjay, how often are you hearing stuff like this, and what does it mean to you?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean - well, first of all, Lauren, I'm sorry that you're going through this. I remember, you know, hearing your story back in April. And this does linger, you know. And we hear this quite a bit.
I mean, even in people, who, as Lauren, I think you're alluding to, who are either asymptomatic, or minimally symptomatic, even they can have these lingering symptoms.
If you look at the studies, and again, these are early days. I mean we're going to learn a lot more about this, in the months and years to come. But, in the early days, they say some 30 percent to 40 percent of people seem to have persistent symptoms, more than a few months.
I mean we don't really know much longer than that because it's, you know, that's the longest sort of follow-up that we have.
But Chris, one of the things that we did, we went back and looked at SARS data, that's the sudden Acute Respiratory Syndrome, and we looked at that because that was also, as you may know, caused by Coronavirus.
And there was a percentage of people, just around 20 percent, 25 percent of people that did develop persistent sort of lung problems, in the form of either pulmonary fibrosis or difficulty just with pulmonary function longer-term.
And I realize, as I'm saying this, you know, that's got to sound, you know, a little jarring to you guys, since you both have had it. But this is some of the data that they showed. They were able to detect this by doing CT scans afterwards.
CUOMO: Right.
GUPTA: So, you know, after the person was COVID-free, or in that case, SARS-free.
CUOMO: That's the level of testing we're going to have to see. But I got to tell you something.
GUPTA: If we go back and look at that.
CUOMO: Mandel and I have a pretty good bond. Neither of us is surprised to hear it because we think that we're not special.
Now, there's a term that I don't know if the doctors have used with you, Lauren, but you're going to hear it, at some point. It's called Myalgia Encephalitis. It's a fancy way of saying Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and it can have an overlay of the lung stuff because of this particular virus.
I am done with the "Let's live a situation through Chris." That's why I wanted to bring in you, and there a lot of other people who are feeling this. They are now offering that up to me, to explain what's going on with me.
I got brain fog that won't go away. I've got an onset of clinical depression, which is not sadness, but it is depression. People keep saying to me, "Don't be sad." I'm not sad. I'm depressed. It's different.
I can't control it. I can't control my mood. I'm dealing with that with my doctors. I never had it before. I have it now. I can't recover from workouts the way I did before. So, everything is relative.
I hear it from more people than I don't, Sanjay.
Lauren, I want to give you last word though on what you want people to know about what the family is still dealing with in terms of the "Tale of The Tornado."
MANDEL: It's real. People, you know, you need to wear your mask. You need to protect yourself. You need to protect your family. It's out there. And I think once it's into your house, it doesn't go - it just doesn't go away.
Like our house, it's all about COVID. Even my little ones, my poor 7- year-old has, she's nervous all the time. She wants to make sure that we're safe. "Are we wearing masks? Are we not?"
I have a 5-year-old and a 7-year-old that have zero problems wearing a mask because they know what, you know, how it can protect them. We're scared. And they're scared to get it back again. They saw what happens.
CUOMO: I mean it's really, Sanjay, I mean, you know, the idea of "You know, if you get it, you probably have a mild case, you'll be fine," yes, I just don't know that it goes away after that. And I know that once they give me--
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: --some more lung testing, I know they're going to find something, that's why I've been delaying it. But I don't think we're special.
I mean Mandel is special. She's a phenomenal mother. I can't believe how she dealt with this. Every time I called to check in on her, I'd wound up talking about myself 80 percent of the time.
But I don't think we're special, Sanjay. I think we're going to hear more about it.
GUPTA: Yes. I mean I - I just got to say this. So many people have still come to me that have said, "Hey, man, I'm just going to - why don't I just get this, and power through it, and get the antibodies, and be done?" You'd probably hear that as well.
Not a good option. We don't know, I mean--
MANDEL: No.
GUPTA: --exactly what this virus does to the body. It affects everything from the toes to the nose, and we don't know how long it lasts. You don't want this, if you can avoid it.
I feel bad for both of you that you got it. I'm glad you're recovering. But it's a long process. You don't want this if you can avoid it.
[21:45:00]
CUOMO: So Lauren, let's do this. Let's stay in the loop. I'll come at you every few weeks, kind of see where you're going, and you let me know if there are any updates that are worthwhile, in your opinion, all right?
MANDEL: All right, sounds like plan.
CUOMO: I know better than to offer you anything because I know you're going to say, "No," and you're going to like, you know, "I'm not getting into that trap again." That I have learned.
MANDEL: Right.
CUOMO: But I appreciate you and your family. I wish you the best. I hope it continues to get better and soon, OK?
MANDEL: Yes. You too. You too.
CUOMO: All right, God bless. Doc, as always, thank you.
MANDEL: Thanks.
CUOMO: Be well. I'll check in with you soon.
GUPTA: I'll call you, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, please brother.
GUPTA: Check in with you. Yes, OK, you get it.
CUOMO: All right, we got some breaking news for you out of Alabama, a nice window into the strength of the President within his Party, next.
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CUOMO: All right, the Alabama U.S. Senate runoff has just been called. Jeff Sessions will not win his old seat back. That's because he was President Trump's first Attorney General. You remember how that went, right?
[21:50:00]
His opponent, Tommy Tuberville, a former Auburn University Coach is now in the running to head to Washington, after a lot of backing from President Trump.
Let's go to Jeff Zeleny.
Jeff?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris, good evening.
Tommy Tuberville did win this primary. At least, that is what we are projecting this evening. He will go on to face Democratic Senator, Doug Jones. Of course, Alabama, a deep Red Republican State.
But this is a race that is another chapter of the humiliation for Jeff Sessions that President Trump has dished out. We know he gave up his Senate seat, after being the first Senator to endorse him, four years ago, to become Attorney General.
Of course, he recused himself in the Russia probe. And the President never forgave him for that. So, President Trump gave just a blistering, almost daily, deliverance of Jeff Sessions, and supported Tommy Tuberville in this race.
So, we are projecting tonight that Tommy Tuberville, the former Auburn Football Coach, well known in Alabama, although has only lived there, again, a very brief period of time, in fact, was a Florida voter, Florida resident only a year and a half ago or so, is going to be the Republican nominee, again, will face Senator Doug Jones, the Democratic Senator, the most imperiled Democratic Senator in the Senate in this fall.
President Trump already is tweeting about this, this evening. He is praising Tommy Tuberville.
He is giving his own pat on his back that we can just read this here. It says, "Wow, just called Tommy Tuberville, won big against Jeff Sessions, will be a Great Senator for the incredible people of Alabama."
So, we'll keep an eye on this race as it goes forward. But, for Jeff Sessions, who won four races to the U.S. Senate, often without opposition, humiliated tonight, in Alabama, Chris.
CUOMO: Trump power in Alabama. No doubt about it. No disrespect to Tuberville. Obviously, a very popular guy in that region of the country, you know, being a Coach at Auburn is a big deal.
ZELENY: It is.
CUOMO: Especially there. But this is obviously about the power of Trump, in large measure, and Sessions learning a lesson. "It's fealty not loyalty. And if you don't follow the rules, this is what you get."
Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much for the reporting.
ZELENY: Sure.
CUOMO: One more step down Election Road.
All right, so Infectious Disease Experts in Miami are begging for help. They are calling Miami the new epicenter of the pandemic. The reality is eight hospitals in Miami-Dade County have maxed out their ICU capacity. Rates are still climbing.
What are they going to do? Let's get the situation on the ground with Mayor Francis Suarez.
Mr. Mayor, it's good to see you. Sorry it's under these conditions.
MAYOR FRANCIS SUAREZ, (R) MIAMI, FLORIDA: Yes. It's good to see you, Chris. It's definitely - definitely not the conditions that we want to be seeing each other under.
CUOMO: First politics, then practicality.
Politics, there is no matching your message with the Governor's message. He does not acknowledge the reality there. He says, "It's a pocket. There are problems. But Miami-Dade goes up, it goes down. That's all. It goes up. It goes down. That's what this is."
How can you and he see things so differently on the same batch of numbers?
SUAREZ: You know, I'm not sure.
You know, we had a meeting today, where he was at. A variety of different mayors were also there. And the idea was for us to try to unify our message, for him to listen to voices that, you know, don't always maybe say - sing the same tune.
And I think it was important for him to be there. We certainly were able to get him to convey, when he was in Miami, the last couple of days that wearing a mask in public is incredibly important.
That's a rule that we have in the City of Miami and in Miami-Dade County. And it's something that we're hoping is going to help us start, you know, flattening the curve once again because the situation is dire, as you mentioned.
You know, our hospitalizations are an all-time high. Our ICU beds are double what they were in April. And we're trying to find ways, our hospital system, is trying to find ways to increase capacity, over the next two weeks to four weeks.
But if things don't improve dramatically, over the next week, we could be forced to take very dramatic measures like reinstituting a stay-at- home order.
CUOMO: But what do you do with capacity? I mean, you know, what is the plan? Is the Governor offering every - any relief? Is the Federal government offering any plan of relief?
If you don't have ICU beds, that's the end of capacity. How do you expand? Who's offering to help?
SUAREZ: Yes. Right now, we're getting some help from the State. They sent us a 100 nurses over the last week. We haven't gotten any - necessarily any Federal help.
But what - what our hospital system is doing is they're actually creating flexibility by having less non-COVID patients. Obviously, we have about the ability - we have about 2,000 - over 2,000 COVID patients, right now, in our system.
[21:55:00]
And we have the ability to create some flexibility by basically, we shut down non-elective services, elective procedures, and also, shifting some patients from - that are not COVID, and making sure that we have more capacity for COVID patients. So, that's what the hospital system is doing, to increase capacity by about 50 percent, over the next two weeks, if necessary.
CUOMO: 50 percent is a big number. I guess that--
SUAREZ: It's a huge number.
CUOMO: I guess you have to cross-index that with the case growth. How long do they think they have, if the numbers don't abate?
SUAREZ: They think they have about four weeks, if assuming that numbers don't abate and assuming that they're able to create the kind of capacity that they think that they can create.
You know, so I think, if things don't start to change, materially, in the next week or so, we're going to have to take some dramatic action. And that's what we've been messaging today.
CUOMO: So, it's masks. It's social distancing. If it doesn't work, then you're going to have to take a step back, and reduce the options for people to be out in public, and stay home until the numbers do come down.
Mr. Mayor, look, that's leadership. Nobody is going to like anything that we just said. But that's the job that you wanted. And when things get back to normal, then people will start to be normal, in terms of how they see the measures that got them there. But you have a tough job ahead.
I promise you, this platform remains open.
SUAREZ: Thanks.
CUOMO: And I hope you see change and quickly.
SUAREZ: I hope so too.
CUOMO: Mayor Francis Suarez, stay healthy. Stay righteous.
SUAREZ: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, we're going to take a break. We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: All right, my time is up, almost. But why not start CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon and scorched earth early. Enough is never enough.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: Oh, 10 whole seconds. Wow! Thank you. You're so generous.
CUOMO: Pay me later!
So look, what's very clear to us with what's going on with Fauci is that this President's strategy is to destroy the truth-tellers. And I don't think it's going to work with Fauci.
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