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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump Finally Concedes Pandemic Will Get "Worse Before It Gets Better," Implores Americans To Wear Masks; Teacher Who Survived COVID- 19 Now Suing Florida's Governor Over Reopening Of Schools; Navy Veteran On Video Showing Him Beaten And Pepper-Sprayed By Federal Officers In Portland. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 21, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: He later married again to Marianne King (ph). And between them, they had nine grandchildren, whom they loved deeply.
He was known as a good man to his core with a wicked sense of humor. He loved to tell stories, loved his cigars. According to Gary, Bill's legacy is one of joy, happiness, beautiful smiles, and love for his family and friends. Bill Stark was 92-years-old. His family is in our thoughts tonight.
The news continues. So, I'll hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, John, thank you very much.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
The President finally admitted that the pandemic may get worse and that wearing a mask, if you can't socially distance, wearing a mask is a must. Six months, more than 141,000 deaths, almost 4 million cases later, and as half the states in the country fall backwards, Trump is finally admitting the truth.
This is at least what you need to be hearing from this President every day. It's called reality.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It will, probably, unfortunately get worse before it gets better. Something I don't like saying about things but that's the way it is.
When you are not able to socially distance, wear a mask, get a mask. Whether you like the mask, or not, they have an impact, they'll have an effect, and we need everything we can get.
We are imploring young Americans to avoid packed bars and other crowded indoor gatherings. Be safe and be smart.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: Look, he had to read it. But, at least, the people who are writing it are putting the right things on the page now, and at least he found the will to say it. And I say "At least" because that's what that is.
This was the first virus briefing since April. That's the least amount of commitment you can have. Imagine if our President had been on message all along, how much pain could we have avoided?
I know Trump wants praise for owning the obvious. I know his supporters will say, "Damned if he does! Damned if he doesn't!" Not when it comes to telling you the truth, and not when it comes to him hiding the truth for bad reason. So, patting him on the back is not the bar here.
You know where the bar comes, right? November. The election will be a vote on how the President handled this. That's a bar that he has to get over, and it's a bar that you will set.
For right now, is it enough that it took him months to echo the need to wear masks and whip one out of his pocket?
He said wearing one is patriotic. Is that an admission that he has been unpatriotic, all along, as he and many of his followers were saying "Don't wear a mask, that a mask is weak, that a mask is an affront to him."
Many of his followers, who continue to freak out, about wearing a mask, all over the country, what's his message, to them?
It is not enough that this President wasn't an active enemy to the truth today every time he opened his mouth. He will not get a pass for once again pushing lies about testing. We are not ahead of everywhere else, when it comes to using testing, and tracing, and it's a big problem we have here.
Now that we know the President gets what the reality is, that was a powerful admission by him today. There can be no "Forget masks." There can be no "It will disappear." He acknowledged what is true that he has been told for months.
Now our question is "What?" What will the President do about it? #WhereIsThePlan? #DoYourJob.
Trump said, tonight and tomorrow, the professionals will tell him what is needed for testing. And the need is great.
How many of you know or hear about how long it takes to get a test still, how long it takes to get results, and how many people have had a result say they're positive, and then say they're negative, or the reverse or both?
When will this President give us a plan to help schools and communities across the country, in places that he won, families he swore to that he would end the carnage? Well, the carnage is in full effect, and this President made it worse. How will he make it better? There is a long war ahead. And if every State, has to go at alone, in figuring out how to plan and pay for school openings, when they can barely count cases, the carnage will continue.
[21:05:00]
We learned just today the actual number of Coronavirus infections in this country. You ready for this? It may be 10 times higher than what's been reported, according to the CDC.
My first guest calls the data "Inconsistent, incomplete, and inaccessible." Why? Most states fail to report all the data. You have to start asking, is this intentional in any of these cases? And what do we do about it?
Joining us now, former CDC Director, in the Obama Administration, Dr. Tom Frieden.
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TEXT: ONE ON ONE.
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CUOMO: Good to have you back on PRIME TIME.
DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT & CEO, RESOLVE TO SAVE LIVES: Great to be with you, Chris.
CUOMO: Let's deal with the conceptual pushback. "What you mean the data is wrong? The data is the data. The states put it out. It's always this way, Tom."
FRIEDEN: What we did was have experienced health researchers look in detail at all 50 states, plus D.C. and Puerto Rico. And what we found was if you just define the essential facts that you'd like to have, less than half of them are on the state dashboards and no State is alike.
And this is not the states' fault. They're working hard. Some of the data is hard to come by. Fundamentally, we don't have a clear strategy, vision, guidelines, accountability, and so we don't have information on early warnings.
We don't have information on your risk in your community. We don't have information from a third of states on where the outbreaks are and, from many states, on whether they're controlling the outbreaks. And we don't have useful information on testing and tracing.
You mentioned testing. You know, one of the most misleading numbers in all of this is the number of tests performed per day. 200,000, 500,000, 700,000, but how many of those tests come back in time to be useful?
How many of them are done that result in someone getting isolated or contacts being warned so they can protect their family? Those are the real numbers.
And, on those indicators, really, we put it this way, the information is abysmal. We don't see it on a single State dashboard. And that's because they haven't been told to put it there and supported to do the work to get it there, and get the number looking good.
CUOMO: The key dynamic here is schools. It can't be if or if not. It's about when and how, because you can't get people back to work. We got to get our kids back in a normal situation. So, timing is important, and timing is going to be a coefficient of the planning.
How important is it that the Federal government lead the way in offering states State-by-State help, because they've been asking, we know that, for the money, the planning and the purpose in each of these different communities.
How important is a plan on the Federal level?
FRIEDEN: It's really crucial.
What we're seeing here is people saying, "Can you open the schools?" That's not the question. The question is, "Can you open them and keep them open?" That's only going to happen if you can control the disease in the State, in the community.
Here, in New York, the Governor is doing exactly the right thing. He's focusing on the percent positive, and saying, "If you're above 5 percent, going to be impossible to open." And that's probably absolutely correct.
Under 5 percent, maybe you can open, if you do all of these things right. That's the kind of approach we need in every State around the country, because that's the only way.
I think it's very important that we work hard to get our kids back to school. But it's not going to be like before. We're going to have to shield the most vulnerable. We're going to have to reorganize teaching in many ways.
For high school kids, we may have to be a combination of online and offline, podding or cohorting kids, so that if there is a case, we don't have to shut the whole school again.
But, in parts of the country, where the virus is spreading explosively, like much of the South, unless they get it in control, the kids are not going to be able to go to school and stay in school.
That's why it's up to all of us. Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Watch your distance. And yes, stay out of crowded bars. But why are the bars open?
CUOMO: Right. So, all of those are important points.
But, at the end of the day, this is going to take money, it's going to take human resources, and it's going to take intellectual resources. What works, what doesn't, and in what applications. That's where the Federal government is supposed to come in.
Dr. Tom Frieden, thank you for being clear about the path forward.
FRIEDEN: Thank you.
CUOMO: Appreciate it.
All right, so what do we know? You just heard the Doctor say, in the South, you have the biggest problems right now. COVID cases exploding in Florida, its Governor says today, his State is on the right course.
One of the teachers suing, DeSantis, the Governor there, over his plan to re-open schools. We'll counter that. She personally suffered with the virus and made it through.
She has a warning about how we get kids back to school, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: Imagine you spend 21 days on a ventilator, after contracting COVID-19. And after fighting for your life, you're told, at the height of a pandemic, in your State that you have to go back and do your job.
And that job is in a place that's going to be high risk. There's no real plan on how to limit the risk, and no real integrity from your bosses about being honest about the risk.
That is the proposition, according to the teacher you're about to meet, Stefanie Miller. That's her that you watched there.
Given Florida's Education Commissioner's order to open school buildings, five days a week, in August, with no real plan about how to make it safe enough, so the Sunshine State's largest Teacher's Union is suing the State of Florida, and Miller is a plaintiff in that lawsuit.
She's speaking out, like many of her fellow Florida educators have, and she joins us now.
How are you feeling?
STEFANIE MILLER, 3RD GRADE TEACHER FROM BROWARD COUNTY, PLAINTIFF NAMED IN LAWSUIT AGAINST GOV. RON DESANTIS: I'm doing good, thank you. It's been a long road. But I'm getting there. How are you?
CUOMO: I'm better than I deserve. Are you ready to work? Are you physically up to it?
MILLER: Well, I've been working hard. When I came off the ventilator, I could only lift my head. Oh no, move my head, I couldn't even lift it.
[21:15:00]
But through physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech therapy, I had to re-learn how to walk and talk. My vocal chords were damaged, so I have to get therapy for that.
Am I ready to work? Yes and no. I've made a lot of progress. I can work - walk on my own now, but not light on my feet, shall I say.
CUOMO: I hear you. The last thing you want is to put yourself in a position of jeopardy, especially in your particular condition. But you see it as part of a larger problem. Why don't you believe that your State is ready to go back to school?
MILLER: Well, our numbers are through the roof right now. We're not socially distancing the way we should be, and it's spreading like crazy.
And it's almost like a science experiment. Pack the school full of kids, and teachers, and personnel, and see how it goes, especially when they're not taking precautions. We don't have the protective gear. We don't have enough sanitation in the school.
Before COVID, we caught every flu there was, and bug. Now, how are we going to protect ourselves, and the students, and their families?
There's no real solid plan in place. In fact, I haven't heard anything.
CUOMO: Other than the need to open, which everybody agrees on.
MILLER: There's that.
CUOMO: You know, I'm sure you understand that we want to get the schools open. The question is how and how we keep them open.
So, the pushback will be this, Stefanie.
"All right, so maybe you shouldn't work, because you're fragile. And your mom had it. And your fiance had it. So, all right, your family is a special case. You can apply and maybe get some kind of dispensation.
But teachers, in general, will be fine. And if the kids get it, they'll get over it, and they're largely asymptomatic. So, we're going to be OK. Not everybody is a Stefanie. Let's go back to work."
MILLER: You know, I have no pre-existing health conditions, for me to have gotten hit as hard as I did. It's kind of a roll of the dice. You might get hit hard, you might
not. You don't know what you're going to get until you get it. And then once you've got it, there's no going back.
CUOMO: What do you want your kids, from your classes, to know, about their teacher, and how you feel, and what you want for them?
MILLER: I'm doing good. As I tell them, to try their best, and work their hardest, that's what I'm doing.
Every day, I get up with a good attitude. And I do whatever my therapist tells me to do, and I practice. And I have a lot of people that help me keep my chin up, when I get discouraged, just like I do for them. And we're all into this together.
We, as teachers, just want to protect our children, and their families and our families.
CUOMO: What would you--
MILLER: We're doing what we've always done, is caring about the greater good of all.
CUOMO: What would you say to Governor DeSantis?
MILLER: This is not worth taking a risk on. This is human's lives. We don't just throw us in there with no solid plan. It has to be well thought out with a lot of - a lot of protection in place.
What's going to happen when a teacher or student gets sick? What happens? Then the whole class has to isolate? Who takes over the class? We have a sub shortage as it is. Where are we going to get the subs to cover, if a teacher gets sick or if a child gets sick?
And what happens if it happens in the middle of the day that someone starts feeling good? What is the exact protocol that we would be handling? Because, before COVID, parents sent kids in sick, and you hope that they would pick them up. Not always did they do so. So--
CUOMO: These are real questions. And you would think that the State would have answers, if they're going to send people back to school, for the kids, their families, and the teachers, and their families.
MILLER: Yes.
CUOMO: And we'll be staying on the story to see what Florida does about it, not just because of the lawsuit, but because of the reality in that State reflecting what's happening all over the country.
I want to end on one good note, though, so that people know things can get better, if you get a little bit of luck, and a lot of love.
This is video of you being discharged from the hospital.
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(VIDEO OF PEOPLE CHEERING AS STEFANIE MILLER, A FLORIDA TEACHER, GETS DISCHARGED FROM HOSPITAL, AFTER RECOVERING FROM COVID-19)
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CUOMO: And I know it was a big cause for celebration from the team that took care of you. You were in really bad shape. People were worried. But look at you today. You're back on the right track. And we all wish you very well.
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MILLER: Mama!
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CUOMO: And I look forward to staying in touch.
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MILLER: All right!
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CUOMO: And hear about how strong the recovery can be. And hopefully, you're doing it, and finding a way to teach when it is right, and the way that it is right. Stefanie Miller, thank you.
MILLER: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, look, that's the situation in Florida. We've got all kinds of angles on it. And we'll stay with it, because it's a metaphor for what you're going to see all over the country.
[21:20:00]
States can't just do it. They have to figure out how to do it. And governors have been begging the President, for Federal help, with their COVID fights, whether it was PPE, whether it's testing, tracing, money, helping augment their State budget lapses, and now figuring out, how do we do this school thing the right way, and can you help us pay?
Now they say they've been largely ignored. And yet, the President sends in unwanted Federal forces to Oregon to control the inequality protests.
Our next guest had some big concerns about it, as a Navy Veteran, and it got him beat within a baton and pepper-sprayed. He wants you to hear his story, next.
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CUOMO: Navy Veteran, Chris David, went to the protests in Portland, Oregon, hoping to speak to Federal agents after reports that they were arresting people without explanation.
Video shows U.S. Marshals beating and pepper-spraying David, whom they labeled "A subject who was not complying with lawful commands."
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(VIDEO - U.S. MARSHALS BEATING AND PEPPER-SPRAYING U.S. NAVY VETERAN, CHRIS DAVID, IN PORTLAND, OREGON)
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CUOMO: Chris David joins us now to respond.
Chris, welcome. And first, thank you for your service.
CHRIS DAVID, U.S. NAVY VETERAN: And thank you for having me on your show. It's an honor, Chris.
CUOMO: No, no, no, the - the privilege is ours.
This is what they said.
"The subject on the video presented a threat to the deputy U.S. Marshals by continuing to approach them and failing to comply with lawful commands to withdraw as they proceeded to re-enter the Courthouse.
Less-than-lethal force was deployed only until the individual retreated. The deputies believed that the force used was necessary to protect themselves and others from physical harm."
Your response?
DAVID: Well, does their training with batons include hitting me in the back, as I'm walking away? Or hitting me in the hand and breaking my hand? Because, as far as I know, I don't think those are standard tactics with a baton.
CUOMO: When you approached them, were you trying to get into an altercation? Were you trying to start a fight?
DAVID: No, absolutely not. In fact, when they came rushing out of the Courthouse, they ran into the intersection, and plowed into a bunch of protesters and knocked them down.
So, what I did is I walked out of the park, and into street, and I stopped in the street, a few feet from the curb, and I stood there.
And after they had sort of dealt with the folks in the intersection, it seems they started to surround me, and I was standing there, trying to have a discussion with them about whether they were honoring their oath to the Constitution.
At that point, one of the gentlemen came up, and leveled his semi- automatic weapon at my chest. And then, another individual plowed into me, and knocked me back a couple feet.
And, at that point, all I did was get ready for the beating. I relaxed my body. I stopped talking. And then they proceeded to beat me and pepper-spray me until I would leave.
CUOMO: Why did you decide to let that happen? You're obviously a very big dude, by the way. But did you allow them to hit you and then give them the salute walking away, to make a scene, or did you feel you had no other choice?
DAVID: Well, there was a gentleman there with a semi-automatic weapon. So, I felt the best plan, at that point, was to just not move at all. And I knew the beating was coming.
CUOMO: Why did you know?
DAVID: I could sense it. They were out of control. They had no tactical plan with what they were doing. They just came out to fight. That's pretty much it.
CUOMO: Did they have any reason to believe that you or any of the other people were trying to make a move on the building?
DAVID: Well I was still standing in the street while everybody else had retreated, and I stood there, until they surrounded me, so I could have a discussion with them.
CUOMO: What's your take on why they were there and what it means about the situation in general?
DAVID: They're trying to precipitate violence, protests and chaos, in order to achieve, I think, a certain type of optics that appeals to a segment of our population.
CUOMO: Do you think they're necessary there to protect the building.
DAVID: Absolutely not.
CUOMO: Why?
DAVID: In fact, they're inflaming the situation.
CUOMO: Explain.
DAVID: Well, when they arrived, I think the protests were starting to sort of taper off a little bit. And when they started showing up, they started with the aggressive tactics. And the more aggressive tactics they used, the larger the protests
grew. And when I was there that night, there were maybe 400 people or 500 people. I believe, last night, there may have been 4,000 people.
So, they're doing the same thing, over and over again, and they're not achieving the goal that they say they're trying to achieve, which is to end the protests or end the violence. They're making it worse.
And so, I think the generous interpretation here about Chad Wolf is he either doesn't have a plan for what he's trying to achieve, or, I think the less generous interpretation is this is intentional.
CUOMO: You know, people were looking at the video of you, and there are a lot of people giving you a lot of praise, for how tough you are. And, you know, "Look how, oh, boy, look how he withstood that."
I got to be honest, breaks my heart. I know you went down there because it's your right, and that you served this country, and you care about the stewardship of the same.
And it breaks my heart, Chris that you had to go through something like that. And I just want you to know that. I know a lot of people. You know, you're going to become part of the political maelstrom like everything else. But even the people--
DAVID: Yes.
CUOMO: --who were celebrating you for how tough you were, I'm sorry that you had to do that. It really does break my heart. And I thank you for your service. And I appreciate you for explaining the situation.
DAVID: Chris, can I make one other point? Just one last point?
CUOMO: Of course.
[21:30:00]
DAVID: I would like people to stop focusing on me, and I'd like to - them to start focusing back on the original reason why these protests started, which was the murder of George Floyd.
The Black Lives Matters Movement has been completely eclipsed by this little war that the Administration has initiated in the streets of Portland. I think we need to get back to the real reason why we're protesting, which is Black Lives Matter.
CUOMO: You are absolutely right. And we will keep it, in focus on this show, best we can, for as long as we must. And I wish you well.
DAVID: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: I know you have to have reconstructive surgery on your ring finger. I hope it goes well. Stay in touch with us. Let us know how you are. And thank you for taking this opportunity tonight.
DAVID: Thank you, Sir. It was an honor.
CUOMO: The honor is mine. Thank you for your service to the country.
Can you believe this is going on? That we have a Veteran who goes down there and gets into a situation like that? And if you're going to say, "Oh, well he didn't comply," you watched the video. That's the way we're treating one another?
Why is the Trump Administration doing this? Is this the only way to do this? Is this really a plan, for them, to show strength, and foment what's happening in the street, and distract from the Black Lives Matter Movement, as Chris David just suggested?
Let's get some answers, OK? Because look, to me, if they want to be involved, in State matters, that's great. Why not the pandemic?
We have the number two guy at DHS taking the opportunity to explain the situation. We will speak to Mr. Cuccinelli, next.
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CUOMO: All right, you just heard from the Navy Veteran, Chris David, about what he experienced, on the streets of Portland, and his questions about why those Federal authorities are there.
Let's bring in Acting Deputy DHS Secretary, Ken Cuccinelli.
It's good to see you. I hope the family is well.
KEN CUCCINELLI, ACTING DEPUTY HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY, ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES: Chris, thank you. Good to see you.
CUOMO: All right, what is your response to Chris David?
He says, "These Feds don't have to be there. They're there to make a point, which is that might makes right, and they're looking for fights, and they're fomenting the situation, and creating more strife in the streets."
Your response?
CUCCINELLI: Well I appreciate that opinion. I don't agree with it.
Certainly, the Federal Protective Service, a little-known agency, within the Department of Homeland Security, has been protecting these Federal buildings for decades, literally, the Hatfield Courthouse, since it was opened in 1997.
And the weekend of July 4th, we had Intelligence suggesting there was going to be heightened targeting of these facilities, which turned out to be correct. And we advanced other officers there to support FPS in their mission, and they were cross-designated to do that.
They're operating under legal Federal authority, protecting Federal facilities and the people at those facilities as best they can. And they've been there for about two weeks.
You've seen the violence, ever night, from Portland. But it was there every single night. They've had violence for 35 nights or 40 nights before we have expanded our presence there.
So, the idea that somehow the Federal government caused this, which Mayor Wheeler there has occasionally asserted, is just belied by the facts.
CUOMO: Well you can't make the argument--
CUCCINELLI: We're there because there's more violence directed at facilities we have to protect.
CUOMO: No, I'm with you. The law is pretty clear. You get the building and what they call, in the law, you know, that we understand.
But, for everybody else, they'll use the word, the phrase, "A pertinent thereto" that you're there to defend the building and anything close and related to the building. Fine, that's the law.
Now, there is a political question, I'm not going to burden you with, which is these states were asking for a lot of help, and this President isn't giving it to them. And here, he's taking it on his own to provide Federal help.
That's not your bailiwick. You don't decide what's done for pandemics. But the audience should be aware.
The Mayor can't say you started the fire there. It's not fair. The Mayor can argue, as Chris David is, that you're making it worse by being there. Is that the strategy? And I know that's a terrible suggestion, except, why do I ask?
CUCCINELLI: Oh, no. Oh my Gosh, no.
CUOMO: The DHS - but here's why I ask though, Ken.
CUCCINELLI: Yes.
CUOMO: I would never assume that.
CUCCINELLI: Well go ahead, yes, go ahead.
CUOMO: I've worked with DHS a lot, as you know. I have a lot of respect for what the men and women do there.
The DHS Secretary says, "Instead of addressing violent criminals in their communities, local and state leaders are instead focusing on placing blame on law enforcement and requesting fewer officers in their community. Their failed response has emboldened the violent mob, as it escalates violence day after day."
That does not sound like a man who's following the law to protect a building. It sounds like a man who's taking a political position on a state-of-play in a City.
CUCCINELLI: Well, no, we have a situation, and it's a repeat in Portland.
I mean, two years ago, the same Mayor, Wheeler, publicly announced the withdrawal of police protection from an ICE facility that was under siege there. And so, what happened? The siege exploded and, literally, people invading the facility and so forth.
So, this is a repeat performance, as it relates to intentional non- cooperation by local political authorities. I don't want to lay it on the police there. They have a tough job there.
CUOMO: Sure.
CUCCINELLI: Portland police officers.
But this is a pattern for this political leadership. And we - this isn't so much a complaint. We have to protect ourselves, meaning the facilities we're responsible for, and our officers.
In most of America, it's a partnership with the local authorities, and we desire partnership. We accommodate their requests--
CUOMO: Wolf doesn't sound like he desires a partnership.
CUCCINELLI: --for various things in partnerships.
CUOMO: Wolf didn't say anything you've just said which--
CUCCINELLI: Oh no, we desire it.
CUOMO: Well that's not what he's saying here. He's basically taking a shot at them about how they're policing their City and not saying any of the things you just said.
And I have no problem still with what you're doing, as long as you're following the law. But the anecdotes, and what we saw with Chris David is he wasn't making a move on the Courthouse.
[21:40:00]
And when you rush out into the street, and make arrests that have nothing to do with the Courthouse, some - what is it, 43 people now, now, you're doing something else. You're policing a community, and that is not your jurisdiction, nor your place, nor have you been requested to do so.
Are those requests wrong?
CUCCINELLI: So, all of the arrests that we have been involved in, which is somewhere over 20, I don't know the exact number, have been related to the damage to the Federal property, or attacking law enforcement officers, protecting that Federal property, which are felonies, of course, or the attack on officers is, they're all related to that basic - that base mission.
We are not patrolling this City. We are not taking on Portland Police Bureau responsibilities. And we are not leaping out into crowds--
CUOMO: What we - but what happened with Chris David?
CUCCINELLI: --and grabbing the people.
CUOMO: Chris David goes up there, asks them about their constitutional duty.
Now you can say that's a little bit of a provocative thing to be talking about, in the middle of a protest, but he wasn't making a move on the building, and they made a move on him? You watched it.
CUCCINELLI: The--
CUOMO: You just got lucky that he's so big. If that guy was like your size, or my size, he would have been knocked down on the ground, and beaten badly. He's, you know, he's disadvantaged by size, that man. What is that about?
CUCCINELLI: So, the - there are four agencies there.
CUOMO: Right.
CUCCINELLI: There are the U.S. Marshals, which is who you saw interacting with Chris David.
CUOMO: Yes. That's not DHS.
CUCCINELLI: And then there are three DHS--
CUOMO: That's DoJ.
CUCCINELLI: Right. There are three DHS entities. And so, I can get every ounce of detail out of DHS officers.
CUOMO: Right.
CUCCINELLI: I don't have the ability to do that with the Marshals. They're not in my chain of command. So, I can't speak to what was--
CUOMO: But that's a little too convenient. Isn't it, Ken? CUCCINELLI: --going on between them.
CUOMO: You still got eyes. You got good eye.
CUCCINELLI: No. It's not--
CUOMO: You got two good eyes in that good-looking head.
CUCCINELLI: It wasn't designed by me.
CUOMO: But I'm saying what they just did there--
CUCCINELLI: It wasn't designed by me so.
CUOMO: --wasn't about the building, OK? And your guys at CBP were brought in to back up those Marshals. The Marshals are supposed to defend the Courthouse. CBP is in there. Seems like a lot of force--
CUCCINELLI: But actually, we're backing up--
CUOMO: --to protect the building.
CUCCINELLI: --we're backing up - we're backing up FPS. Our - the CBP and the ICE agents who were there, and officers, are cross-designated with Federal Protective Service. That's who we're backing up in this mission. The Marshals, obviously, have responsibilities with respect to the Courthouse.
CUOMO: Yes.
CUCCINELLI: They don't have any responsibilities directly for the other Federal buildings or property there that we do. So, we have - we have more to cover. And we have to interact with them. You know, they're willing to be partners. That doesn't mean we control their activities.
CUOMO: They're also willing to beat the piss out of a guy--
CUCCINELLI: We were willing to work with--
CUOMO: --in the middle of the street--
CUCCINELLI: Well let me finish and--
CUOMO: --who wasn't threatening the building. Go ahead.
CUCCINELLI: Let me - yes, so we're also willing to partner with the Portland Police Bureau. And the - but the Mayor is the Commissioner of that Police Force.
CUOMO: Right.
CUCCINELLI: That's the proper title. I think it is. And he refuses that cooperation. And a lot of that cooperation can be designed and is designed to de-escalate, to identify ways to de-escalate and to de- conflict responsibilities. We're not taking over their responsibilities.
CUOMO: It's not what the President says.
CUCCINELLI: It's not why we're there. And we're not doing it.
CUOMO: It's not what the President says.
CUCCINELLI: And that's not what we're doing.
CUOMO: It's not what the President says.
CUCCINELLI: Well we're acting - we're acting, first of all, at the President's insistence--
CUOMO: Well I believe that.
CUCCINELLI: --to protect this area of the community. Let me finish. But it's only within the boundaries of our Federal jurisdiction. That doesn't cover all of Portland.
CUOMO: But he's not talking about buildings.
CUCCINELLI: It covers these areas.
CUOMO: He's not talking about buildings. He's saying "I don't like what's happening in these cities"--
CUCCINELLI: But in each place - each--
CUOMO: --"that are run by Democrats."
CUCCINELLI: That's true.
CUOMO: "And I'm going to send more of my guys around to quell these situations." That is not your job. That is Posse Comitatus.
CUCCINELLI: And the--
CUOMO: Even though you're not the military--
CUCCINELLI: And the extent--
CUOMO: --it is de facto.
CUCCINELLI: Yes, that's a - that is a military--
CUOMO: I know. But you know what I'm saying.
CUCCINELLI: --legal term but.
CUOMO: This is - but this isn't a court case.
CUCCINELLI: I know what you're talking about.
CUOMO: It's you're using Federal authorities--
CUCCINELLI: And - and what I'm telling you--
CUOMO: --in municipal situations. Go ahead.
CUCCINELLI: --what I'm telling you - that's right. You are equating his specific words to everything we're doing.
CUOMO: Yes.
CUCCINELLI: And that is simply not the case, Chris.
CUOMO: But he's the President.
CUCCINELLI: And we're - we're staying within - OK but we're staying within the boundaries of that Federal legal authority, and we're part of the Executive branch.
CUOMO: Right.
CUCCINELLI: We work for the President.
CUOMO: But do you think the President should be sending your guys--
CUCCINELLI: But we are - we are not going outside that boundary.
CUOMO: --to every City? Do you think the President should be sending your guys to every City, where he doesn't like the situation on the streets?
CUCCINELLI: Chris, there are a lot of cities he doesn't like--
CUOMO: I know.
CUCCINELLI: --the situation on the streets. And he hasn't sent us--
CUOMO: He said he's thinking of Chicago.
CUCCINELLI: --and he hasn't sent us to every City. So, you--
CUOMO: But he said he's thinking about it.
CUCCINELLI: Yes, well--
CUOMO: Do you think that's a good thought.
CUCCINELLI: --if you watch - if you watch the Superintendent, who gave one of the best press conferences on one of these situations, that I have ever seen, Superintendent Brown in Chicago, he was speaking in terms of cooperation with the Federal government. He wants our help to try to bring peace to that community.
CUOMO: Of course.
CUCCINELLI: And when we come in with that sort of a partnership approach--
[21:45:00] CUOMO: Of course. It's one of the biggest problems for the President with urban centers.
CUCCINELLI: --then he's in the lead.
CUOMO: It's easy to say--
CUCCINELLI: He's in the lead.
CUOMO: No, no, no, no, listen, listen. I have no problem with the Federal government stepping up to help cities that are overwhelmed by their burden. But you should be asked. And it should be help that is supposed to go towards a common goal.
The question is what is the common goal here? You're beating up Navy Vets--
CUCCINELLI: And--
CUOMO: --who aren't even approaching a building.
CUCCINELLI: So--
CUOMO: And you're making protests more angry?
CUCCINELLI: So, there's two types of situations. There's the one you described, which is the ideal, and which, by the way, is the overwhelming majority of the way the presence of the Department of Homeland Security officers plays out in communities across America.
CUOMO: Yes.
CUCCINELLI: It's with some level of partnership. And--
CUOMO: Pre-Trump, yes.
CUCCINELLI: --and that's the overwhelming portion. And the other way is when we act on our own, under Federal authority, to fulfill Federal legal obligations, and that's it. So, you don't have the partnership element.
CUOMO: I got it.
CUCCINELLI: Does it work as well? No. It doesn't work as well.
CUOMO: Doesn't work as well when the President sets it up this way.
CUCCINELLI: But it's still - we're still accomplishing our mission.
CUOMO: I'm afraid he's going to make your good men and women--
CUCCINELLI: We're still pursuing--
CUOMO: --and you--
CUCCINELLI: --the Federal mission. CUOMO: I know. But that's not what he's saying. And that's not what Wolf is echoing.
And I'm afraid that the good men and women of the DHS, who I've worked with, very closely, and you too, Ken, are going to be painted, and used, as thugs, by the President, to show might makes right, in cities where there are protests, where he doesn't like, especially where it's about Black Lives Matter.
Are you worried about that at all?
CUCCINELLI: Well, first of all - first of all, we, and you, if you heard the Secretary today, in his press conference, he said, and we've said, repeatedly, over and over and over, we are determined to protect peaceful protesters.
Monday night, last night, there were peaceful protests outside the Courthouse in Portland.
CUOMO: Right.
CUCCINELLI: There were about 75 people to 100 people there, conducting a peaceful protest to about a 11:00 P.M.
CUOMO: Right.
CUCCINELLI: They then left. And, a few minutes later, 1,000 people showed up, surrounded the Courthouse, and started attacking it.
CUOMO: The question is--
CUCCINELLI: Those are two totally different things.
CUOMO: --would they have been there--
CUCCINELLI: We protect the first one.
CUOMO: --would they have been there if a different environment--
CUCCINELLI: And resist the second.
CUOMO: --a different atmosphere had been established? I appreciate you making the arguments. You're always welcome here to do so. And I wish you and the family well, Ken Cuccinelli.
CUCCINELLI: Chris, it's good to be with you.
CUOMO: Take care.
CUCCINELLI: Thanks, Chris, you too.
CUOMO: All right. Not to rush, Ken. But I got a great thing for you here, all right?
You know how we've been talking about that national resolve? How we come together in a time of need? "Rosie the Riveter," remember that, how women and other citizens, men and women, came forward to build bombers in World War II? Do you remember?
At age 94, an original "Rosie the Riveter" is about to rivet all of us with her new mission to help the U.S. bomb the crap out of COVID. "We can do it," she says. Look at that face. How could we not spend time with her tonight? Right after the break.
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CUOMO: Tonight's Ameri-CAN started serving our country before most of us were born. And she still is.
94 year-old Mae Krier is an original "Rosie the Riveter." You know the iconic poster. The campaign drew millions of women, the so-called "Rosies," stepping up to take the place of men in the workforce during World War II.
Now, Krier is tying that famous Polka-dot red and white bandanna thing into something new, "Rosie face masks," to fight our new war against Coronavirus. Mae Krier joins us now.
What an honor and a privilege to have you on PRIME TIME.
MAE KRIER, 94-YEAR-OLD MAKING FACE MASKS: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: So, what made you decide that it was time to pull out the Polka-dot bandanna once again to help the country?
KRIER: I've always made the Polka-dot bandannas wherever we travel. We go to Washington and places, and whenever we do, they loved the bandannas.
And I was making a lot of them when this virus started, and I just switched over from bandannas to face masks. And it's this is our world (ph). I said it's amazing. I made 300 by myself, and sent them out to my friends, and just people that are my neighbors, my families, and what have you.
But now, with this been on the news, we've got over a 1,000 requests. So now, I've got to, you know, reach out to a lot of friends that have offered to help me. So, we'll get there. We can do it.
CUOMO: Where are you getting all the material from? Where are you getting the energy?
KRIER: Well the energy I have. I'm very fortunate, I was gifted with good energy, good health.
But now, people were starting - at first, I started with material, people were starting to send me material, and elastic and everything that I need, from all over the country, it's absolutely amazing. I'm just stunned.
When I wrote on Facebook, and I said, I just mentioned that I ran out of elastic, and I wouldn't go to a store now, to get any, first thing I did it, I got a whole package of thread, everything that I needed from Delaware.
And that started it, just seemed like everywhere, people wanted to help me. And it's absolutely amazing. Every day, I get material, elastic, or thread. Everything I need.
American people are wonderful. But 99 percent of our people are just great. When you need something, or need them, they are there for you.
CUOMO: We're getting drowned out by the 1 percent right now, Rosie. What do you say to people? You've lived through hard times in this country. You've watched this country--
KRIER: Yes.
CUOMO: --do what had to be done to get through hard times. What do you want--
KRIER: Right.
CUOMO: --people to remember now?
KRIER: Well, you know, we went through the Great Depression, and the Dust Bowl, I think, from the Middle-west, and it was really difficult times. And, you know, we - when we, the World - World War II was declared, we just all banded together, men, women and children, and we did what had to be done.
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I don't understand why people can't band together now. It does seem to me, we wore bandannas, and we wore - we carried rivet guns, the barrels, you know, shipyards, had to wear the heavy welding things, and they carried torches. We did that for days for - and years. And I think that - wearing a mask seems simple to me after going through that.
CUOMO: It absolutely does. And I hope people hear you and live by your example.
Mae, I got to tell you, I've been looking forward to this all day long. Thank you for making my night, and thank you for showing people what's right with this country, then and now. God bless you and the family. KRIER: And I love to see you and your brother, on the television, fighting with each other, saying mother like you best.
CUOMO: You know. You know who is her favorite, Mae. You can just imagine. But I will definitely get one of your masks for him. Anything to cover his face is a good idea.
KRIER: Well he's doing great.
CUOMO: Mae Krier, God bless and be well.
KRIER: Thank you very much.
CUOMO: All right, we're going to take a break.
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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: CNN Tonight with Don Lemon comes in right now. "Rosy the Riveter" one of the original ones, my brother, she says I just changed my sewing machine, you know, for the rivet gun for the sewing machine and I'm doing the same job. I'm helping my country.
