Return to Transcripts main page


Many Virus Survivors Deal with Long-Term Symptoms; Online Support Group Helps "Long-Haul Patients"; California May Be on the Brink of New Stay-at-Home Order; Federal Officials Not Retreating in Protest Crackdown; Antibodies as Therapy or Possible Treatment for COVID-19; NFL and Players' Union Agree on Testing Plan for Camps. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired July 21, 2020 - 01:00   ET


JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: E.U. breakthrough. An unprecedented financial package to stimulate an economy hit hard by a pandemic- induced recession.

Another potential vaccine for the coronavirus appears safe with early results showing real promise.

And Team America or Team China? Governments around the world now choosing a side.

And later this hour on CNN NEWSROOM, the long-term effects on COVID-19 survivors. How long will symptoms linger and how bad will they get?

Hello, everyone. I'm John Vause.

And we'll start with the breaking news from Brussels.

After five days of deadlock, E.U. leaders have agreed to pull the continent out of the deep recession brought on by the coronavirus.

They approved an unprecedented budget of over $2 trillion dollars with over $850 billion in grants and loans for struggling member states.

CNN's John Defterios now live for us in Abu Dhabi with more on this.

It's a huge package, it's a lot of cash. And how are they dividing this up now, who gets what?

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, that's a good way of putting it, John. Because that was the roadblock here.

When they started negotiations, the deal was a two-to-one ratio between grants and loans so the grants are just hand outs and a wealth transfer from the north down to the south.

By the end of the day, after five arduous days, that's closer to a 50/50 split. We're still poring over the numbers here.

But you remember the term, the all-nighter, when you're in university, multiply that by five. That's what we saw here.

And it really kind of highlighted or exposed the north-south divide, the so-called Frugal Four led by the Netherlands.

Saying that look, we just don't need to pay for everyone's challenges on the pandemic here, some of this should be a loan package as well.

And it harkens back to the Greek debt crisis and forcing that discipline on the countries as well.

They also wanted some caveats built in if they broke the rules.

Again, let's see the mechanisms that would be triggered when that happens.

Jean Michel [sic] came forward as European Council president and said I have a deal I think can work. That was last night.

And when they emerged he said finally "deal" with an exclamation point.

And here's his formal remarks after it was signed.


CHARLES MICHEL, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COUNCIL: We have reached a deal on the recovery package and the European budget.

These were, of course, difficult negotiations in very difficult times for all Europeans.

A marathon which ended in success for all 27 member states, but especially for the people.

This is a good deal, this is a strong deal. And most importantly, this is the right deal for Europe right now.


DEFTERIOS: In fact, Emmanuel Macron called it a historic day for Europe. And John, I think we have to put some context here.

It's a good deal, I wouldn't say it's a historic day.

A couple of days ago, President Macron of France was thumping the table because he was so frustrated by this division between the north and the south.

And I always find it fascinating. Within the European Union context, at the end of the day it's the core that has to pull it through -- and the core being Angela Merkle of Germany and, in this case, President Macron of France.

So it's a deal they had to do, John, otherwise the financial markets would have been shocked.

I also think it would've sent the wrong signal to the U.K. because of the Brexit, that "we can keep ourselves together." So that was historic in that measure because it shows that during a

crisis, during a recession of six or seven percent we can get it done. Even though it took five days, and not two.

VAUSE: Yes. This wasn't as much about politics, really, as it is was about economics, right?

DEFTERIOS: Well, that's a fantastic point, John. Because at the end of the day, just like you see in the United States with the last- minute horse trading, that was the same here.

There were five states that are less developed than the northern states that were trying to hold out at the very end.

And if you look at the fine print, there was about two billion dollars of special grants to get the votes to get this thing through.

There's also the politics here -- and again, people are not focusing on it but it's kind of raw to the nerves here -- is the rule of law. Because we have states like Hungary and Poland kind of trampling on their judicial systems.

And we've heard the northern states and also France and Germany say these are the core values of Western Europe.

If you're part of this larger club, this very large trade bloc, you also have to adhere to the democratic principles that we've established since the founding of the European Union.

So there are still problems there, John. But at the end of the day the rest of the world's going to say could Europe get a budget deal done, multiple-year (ph) deal done?


And could they get the stimulus package ready for the pandemic for the poorer states who are really suffering right now -- I'm talking about like Italy, Greece, Spain, Cyprus -- they've been suffering through this process and they'll get the funding they need. But just less in direct aid and more in loans.

VAUSE: John, thank you. I appreciate the update and the detail. Thank you. John Defterios there in Abu Dhabi.

Well, now to a breakthrough by British scientists at Oxford and their candidate for the coronavirus vaccine.

After the first round of human trials, the experimental vaccine appears to be safe and induces a strong immune response, hearing (ph) trials from two other vaccine makers have produced similar outcomes.

But researchers caution more studies are needed to determine how safe they really are.

Oxford University partnered with the drug maker, AstraZeneca, and says if their candidate is proven to work it could be ready by year's end. But Adrian Hill, a lead researcher from the program says there is

still a long way to go until the pandemic is contained.


ADRIAN HILL, DIRECTOR, JENNER INSTITUTE, OXFORD UNIVERSITY: I think getting a grip on coronavirus will be next year. Having a vaccine distributed, hopefully, will be before the end of this year.

But remember, distributed is anything from producing a million doses to two billion doses. And the sooner we get an efficacy result that is positive, the faster we can scale up.

So I think it's really quite likely that we will know by the end of this year or maybe even a few months before that that some vaccine works.

Having hundreds of millions of doses immediately afterwards is unlikely; millions, certainly, tens of billions possibly. But it's going to be a graded response.

So we're going to have to prioritize certain populations. Maybe the older population, maybe people who are first responders.


VAUSE: And the World Health Organization warns even as a vaccine appears to be closer, this global crisis is far from over.


MICHAEL RYAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION EMERGENCIES PROGRAM: This is a positive result. But, again, there's a long way to go.

These are phase one studies. We now need to move into larger-scale, real-world trials. But it is good to see more data and more products moving into this very important phase of vaccine discovery.


VAUSE: Florida confirmed another 10,000 cases on Monday alone, and the U.S. has more than 3.8 million infections.

But the real world number could be much higher as test results are being released days after they were conducted.

It now takes an average of two days for some people to receive their results. In some cases, the wait could be as long as two weeks.

And now, as the virus continues to spread, the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention warns the country could see more than 150,000 fatalities by August.

Here's how a former CDC director reacted to that news.


THOMAS FRIEDEN, FMR. DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL & PREVENTION: We don't see a clear national strategy. We don't see a game plan, we don't see organization. It's not clear who's actually in charge.


CNN's Jason Carroll has more on how other states across the country are managing or not managing the crisis.


JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, hospitals in Florida are reeling from the pandemic as the state continuously reports more than 10, 000 new cases per day.


CARLOS MIGOYA, PRESIDENT & CEO, JACKSON HEALTH SYSTEM: This is scary. I mean, now, every day it's over 10, 000. It's almost like the norm.


CARROLL: Nearly 9,400 people are hospitalized across the state. And in Miami Dade County intensive care units overtaxed, at 130 percent capacity.


MIGOYA: We're building 100 new ICU beds, but unfortunately they're not going to be around until the end of the year. So really, every day it's a matter of a challenge of --


CARROLL: Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, who refuses to mandate masks, coming face to face with the frustration this afternoon.


CROWD: Shame on you, Ron DeSantis. Shame on you.


CARROLL: Los Angeles County also surpassed its record for daily hospitalizations four times in the past week.


GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CALIF.): It's our decisions that will determine how quickly our children go back to school.

It is our decisions that will determine what kind of activities we get to once again enjoy with our friends and family.


CARROLL: Other states like Arizona and Texas seeing rising numbers as well.

Arizona's seven-day average positivity rate is the highest in the country at 24.4 percent. Even reaching an astounding 39 percent on Saturday.

Eighty-seven doctors signed a letter to Governor Doug Ducey urging him not to reopen schools until at least October.

Nationwide, the CDC is now forecasting the total U.S. death toll from the virus will be more than 150,000 Americans by August 8th.

The assistant secretary for health, a top official on the White House's task force, says the nation's sun belt is in the midst of a surge.


ADM. BRETT GIROIR, ASST. SECRETARY OF HEALTH, U.S. DEPT. OF HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES: There is no question that we're having a surge right now.

We are approaching this with extreme seriousness.

So it really is all hands on deck. This is serious. But we know how to stop this.



CARROLL: Health officials say wearing a mask is still a key way to help stop the spread of the virus. And, yet, it continues to be met with resistance.

Georgia's governor, Brian Kemp, has resisted calls for a statewide mask mandate and sued to block Atlanta's face-covering ordinance.

He is seeking an emergency injunction to restrain Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance-Bottoms from making statements to the press.


DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH: It is bizarre that we have turned mask wearing into something political.

Imagine you were an alien coming to Planet Earth. And looking around, looking at the scientific data, going from place to place and looking to see who's wearing masks.

You would be totally astounded, puzzled, amazed.





CARROLL: No signs of masks or social distancing in Queens, New York over the weekend where police had to break up a crowded street party.

New York's governor, again, reminding people to wear masks and practice social distancing.


GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-N.Y.): Bad operators, in terms of restaurants and bars, they're going to make it bad for everyone.

Because -- and for themselves -- we will have to roll back the bar and restaurant opening.


CARROLL: So many concerns across the country about sending kids back to school. Should be in person, should it be online?

Missouri's governor weighing in on the debate, basically downplaying the risks that might be involved.

Saying that kids have to get back to school and if they get it, meaning COVID-19, he said they'll get over it.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

VAUSE: Perhaps it was his tanking poll numbers, but after refusing to wear a face mask because he thought he didn't look good, the U.S. president tweeted a photo of himself actually wearing a face mask on Monday after months he refused to follow the advice of his own health experts.

And still even now will not issue a national mask mandate.

Even so, CNN's Jim Acosta reports that masks might be part of a larger plan to win favor with voters.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: With more than 140,000 deaths from the coronavirus in the U.S. and counting, President Trump is offering up a new proposal to show he's dealing with the pandemic.

Resurrecting the briefing room news conferences on the administration's response to COVID-19.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'll do it at five o'clock, like we were doing. We had a good slot. And a lot of people were watching, and that's a great thing.


ACOSTA: As Mr. Trump made the announcement, the former reality tv host turned president appeared to be more focused on the ratings for the briefings than the surging number of cases across the country.


TRUMP: Well, we had very successful briefings, I was doing them and we had a lot of people watching, record numbers watching -- in the history of cable television television, there's never been anything like it.


ACOSTA: The briefings were sometimes useful when they featured the expertise of health experts like doctors Deborah Birx and Anthony Fauci.

But Mr. Trump suspended the news conferences back in April shortly after he suggested people could inject themselves with disinfectants to kill the virus.


TRUMP: And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute.


ACOSTA: The president is still misleading the public about the virus. Insisting he was right when he predicted COVID-19 would miraculously vanish.


TRUMP: It's going to disappear. One day, it's like a miracle -- it will disappear.


ACOSTA: Mr. Trump defended that comment on "FOX."


TRUMP: I'll be right, eventually.

CHRIS WALLACE, ANCHOR, "FOX ON SUNDAY": I know you'll be right.

TRUMP: I said, it's going to disappear.

WALLACE: But does that -- TRUMP: I'll say it again. It's going to disappear.

WALLACE: But does that discredit you?

TRUMP: And I'll be right -- I don't think so.


ACOSTA: And his lukewarm support for wearing masks still runs counter to what the experts are telling Americans.


JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: I'm begging you. Please understand that we're not trying to take away your freedoms when we say wear a face covering.


ACOSTA: The president still faces tough questions over his handling of the pandemic.

Like why the White House is seeking to block new funding for testing for the virus.

A stance that irks some in his own party, and surprised administration health officials.


WALLACE: The opening bid from the White House was a bit surprising, certainly for many of us. Who were certainly hoping to see more in the way of support.


ACOSTA: A new ABC Washington Post poll finds Mr. Trump far behind Former President Joe Biden.

So the president and his team are turning to former aides Corey Lewandowski and Steve Bannon for advice.


TRUMP: We have Corey, and we have all the people. And actually, Steve Bannon's been -- much better not being involved.

He says the greatest president ever. I mean, he's saying things that -- I said let's keep Steve out there, he's doing a good job.


ACOSTA: Bannon's message to Mr. Trump? Pay more attention to the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEVE BANNON, FMR. WHITE HOUSE STRATEGIST: My recommendation would be every day start to have the top people around you. Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, the vice president, Dr. Redfield at CDC, Chief of Staff Meadows.

Have them in the Oval, get briefed every day on an action plan.


ACOSTA: The president's interview on Fox concerned even some of his own aides.

With one adviser telling CNN:


"It was embarrassing. His total lack of preparation is catching up."


One awkward moment came when Mr. Trump bragged about passing his cognitive assessment test.


TRUMP: Well, I'll tell you what, let's take a test.

Let's take a test right now. Let's go down - Joe and I will take a test. Let him take the same --

WALLACE: I took the test too. When I heard that you passed it.

TRUMP: Yes. How did you do?

WALLACE: It's not the -- well, it's not the hardest test.

TRUMP: No. But the last --

WALLACE: There's a picture and it says --

TRUMP: The last --

WALLACE: -- what's odd? And it's an elephant.

TRUMP: No, no, no. You see, that's all misrepresentation.

WALLACE: Well, that's --



ACOSTA: As for the president, he posted an unusual tweet, at least for him.

All of a sudden, the president is now encouraging mask use. Something his advisors have been urging him to do for weeks.

It is quite the reversal for the president, who once mocked Joe Biden for wearing a mask back in May.

Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House.


VAUSE: At 80,000 dead, Brazil's death toll is second only to the U.S. with total infections at more than 2.1 million.

More than 600 infections were reported on Monday, including two members of President Jair Bolsonaro's cabinet.

The president says both ministers are being treated with hydroxychloroquine, a drug that has not been proven effective and could have serious possible deadly side effects.

Well, in France, officials report at least 400 active clusters across the country. And now masks are mandated in malls, bookstores, supermarkets, all public places indoors.

Officials fear the rate of infection will likely increase after months of decline.

Those caught not wearing a mask could be fined around $150.

Meantime, Spain is urging some residents to stay at home as the virus gets worse.

More than 4,500 new coronavirus cases have been reported in Spain since last Friday. This latest surge is in the Barcelona area.

New cases in Spain had been on the decline following a three-month long lockdown.

And in Australia, the state of Victoria reporting its second highest number of coronavirus cases since the outbreak began. 374 new cases in the past day, 62 were linked to known outbreaks, but the rest are under investigation.

The total number of cases in Victoria now more than 6,200. The death toll there in that state 38 people.

Still to come. The U.K. suspends its extradition treaty with Hong Kong.

The British foreign minister had some strong words. And China warns Britain will pay the price.


VAUSE: U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is in London and will talk pandemic, 5G, Brexit and China with British prime minister Boris Johnson.

The U.K. has suspended its extradition treaty with Hong Kong and will no longer export lethal weapons to the region.

That's after Beijing passed a controversial national security law which effectively increases the Mainland's control over Hong Kong.

A breach of the so-called one-country two-systems which was the basis of the 1997 handover deal with Britain.


DOMINIC RAAB, FOREIGN SECRETARY, BRITAIN: The specific measures I've announced today are a reasonable and proportionate response to China's failure to live up to those international obligations with respect to Hong Kong.

And I commend this statement to the House.

There remains considerable uncertainty about the way in with the new national security law will be enforced.

I would just say this. The United Kingdom is watching, and the whole world is watching.


VAUSE: Kristie Lu Stout is also watching. But she joins us now live from Hong Kong.


So I guess -- what, this is going to be one of those meetings when we get one of sort of statements that everything is great, that they're all on the same page and that they're all focused against China and Beijing and then Beijing hits back.

What are we expecting?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kristie Lu stout is also watching but she joins us from Hong Kong. This is one of the statements that everything is great, there on the

same page and focused against China and Beijing, and then Beijing hits back. What are we expecting?


Exactly. We're now just in another cycle of this war for words, waiting for how China's going to hit back.

But now the U.K. is definitely involved.

We have China's embassy in the U.K. criticizes Britain's actions that happened on Monday, calling it a gross interference in China's internal affairs. And also urging the U.K. to stop or it will ultimately have to pay the price.

On Monday, the U.K. decided to end its extradition treaty with Hong Kong, which basically was done over fears that anyone extradited from the U.K. to Hong Kong could ultimately be headed over to Mainland China because of the new national security law.

On the same day, it also announced it had plans to extend an arms embargo, an arms embargo that had already been in place since 1989 -- with China now extending to Hong Kong that will prohibit the sale of items like firearms and smoke grenades.

Now just a few hours ago on Twitter we saw a post by China's ambassador to the U.K. and he wrote the following.

We'll bring it up for you. Quote:


"The U.K. blatantly interfered in China's internal affairs and contravened international law and the basic norms governing international relations.

China has never interfered in U.K's internal affairs. The U.K. should do the same to China. Otherwise, it must bear the consequences."


STOUT: Now as the tension is rising between the U.K. and China, the U.S. Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, is in London for a two-day visit.

He will meet with his British counterpart, Dominic Raab, as well as the prime minister, Boris Johnson.

On the agenda, of course, China. He is expected to congratulate the U.K. for its ban on Huawei 5G products.

As well as discuss the national security law with a couple of notable figures, including Chris Patten, the last colonial governor of Hong Kong, who has been very vocal about the erosion of autonomy here in Hong Kong.

He's also called Chinese president Xi Jinping, quote, "a dictator."

Secretary Pompeo will also meet with Nathan Law. He is the student activist, pro-democracy leader, former lawmaker, effectively living in exile in the U.K. after he fled from Hong Kong to London after the implementation of the national security law. John.

VAUSE: Kristie, thank you. Kristie Lu Stout there live in Hong Kong. Thank you.

CNN political analyst and foreign policy writer for the "Washington Post," Josh Rogin is with us this hour from Washington.

So, Josh, good to see you.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, FOREIGN POLICY WRITER "THE WASHINGTON POST": Likewise. VAUSE: OK. Does it matter that right now China is being taken to

task by a White House which implemented a policy of detention of migrants, denial of due process, putting kids in cages -- in some cases, those kids died because of denial of basic medical care.

While on the U.K. side, the conservative MPs have accused their own government of putting trade before human rights.

In other words, both the American and the British governments have no moral authority.

ROGIN: Right. Well, isn't it interesting that amidst all of those domestic problems that you rightly listed, both governments and both populations, actually, seem to be turning towards a more aggressive, more hawkish, more nationalistic China policy.

And there's a good reason for that.

It's because despite all of the problems that we both have in our respective countries and in the bilateral relationship, the problem posed by the challenge of a rising China, especially on the technology side but also on the human rights side, are so obvious and growing so rapidly that we have to walk and chew gum, we have to try to fix our own domestic problems and also deal with the China problem at the same time.

VAUSE: Right now, it seems that it's time, basically, for the world to pick a team, if you like. Team America or Team China.

Here's how the British prime minister explained the relationship he wants with Beijing.


BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: We do have serious concerns. We have concerns about the treatment of the Uighur minority, obviously. About human rights abuses.

We obviously have concerns about what's happening in Hong Kong.

What we won't do, as I say, is completely abandon our policy of engagement with China.

China is a giant factor of geopolitics, it's going to be a giant factor in our lives, in the lives of our children.


VAUSE: So in other words, Boris Johnson wants to bet each way or he wants his cake and he wants to eat it as well. But will either side let him have it?

ROGIN: Well, I think the whole frame of forcing countries to choose between the U.S. and China is wrong.

Actually, that's the frame that the Chinese Government would like us to think of.

But if you think about those issues that were just mentioned; human rights, Hong Kong. Those are not really U.S. issues, those are issues that Britain happens to care about as well.

And it happens to be that a lot of other free and open societies also care about.

So the true frame should be whether or not the West or the West plus the other free and open democracies and free and open societies of the world are going to tolerate things like China imprisoning a million or more Muslims and committing cultural genocide against the Uighurs and cracking down on Hong Kong's autonomy.

Which was an agreement between China and Britain, by the way, not China and the U.S. So, of course, Beijing would like it to be portrayed as well, everyone has to choose between us or the U.S.


But that's a false choice. In the end, we're all going to have to deal with China, we're all going to have to cooperate with China when possible, and we're all going to have to push back against Chinese bad behavior where we have to.

And I think when you look at the Huawei stuff that's going to be discussed between Mike Pompeo and his counterparts tomorrow, when you look at what's happening on human rights, when you look at what's happening on Hong Kong, these are all the results of the Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party's actions. It's really not about the U.S.

But by sort of pointing at the Trump Administration, which is a very unpopular administration both at home and abroad, the Chinese are hoping to distract Britain and the rest of the world from the real issues at hand.

VAUSE: Well, apart from the U.K., Australia and Canada have also suspended the extradition agreements they had with Hong Kong.

No surprise, it seems that they're sort of bending obviously towards Team America, the open and Western democracies.

We also have a report from the "Times of India." The headline: "In signal to China, U.S. and India conduct joint naval exercises."

Again, India sort of moving -- being alongside the United States where it has been traditionally.

But if anyone was expecting major reprisals against Beijing for the abhorrent treatment for the Uighur Muslims as well as that draconian security law in Hong Kong, they'd be very disappointed right now.

ROGIN: Well, yes. It's true that the international community has largely ignored Chinese atrocities against Muslims and lots of other Chinese bad actors for a very long time. It's also true the Trump Administration with all of its idiosyncrasies and sort of chaos has actually done a lot more to stand up to Chinese bad behavior than any other government. But just look at that India example.

China attacked India. OK. That had nothing to do with the U.S. but it affected India.

Now, again, you can sort of paint this as Team America versus Team China, or you could notice that every country in the world that deals with China is having problems with China.

Its neighbors, Europe, Australia, Canada and, of course, the United States. So maybe it's not really about the U.S., maybe it's really about China.

And maybe it's about the fact that countries like Britain and countries like India have their own values and their own interests.

And by standing up to China, they're not kowtowing to Washington, they're actually standing up for themselves.

VAUSE: Almost a month ago, on the same day the Hong Kong legislature passed the national security law, the chief executive was reassuring everyone who would listen nothing would change, no need to panic, just chill out, everyone.

Here's Carrie Lam. Listen to this.


CARRIE LAM, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, HONG KONG: The law will not affect Hong Kong's renowned judicial independence. It will not affect legitimate rights and freedoms of individuals which are protected under the basic law and relevant international covenants applied to Hong Kong.

They include, among others, the freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of demonstration and of procession.

In short, the legislation will not undermine one-country two-systems and Hong Kong's high degree of autonomy.


VAUSE: OK. So we're now three weeks into this.

Amnesty International reports from day one authorities in Hong Kong have abused the law.

They report people were arrested for possessing flags, stickers and banners with political slogans. Police and officials have also claimed that slogans, T-shirts, songs and pieces of white paper could endanger national security and lead to criminal prosecution.

And if history is prologue, we know that Beijing has been undermining the independence of the judiciary, for example, for months if not years as well as freedom of speech, freedom of the press.

And there's a pretty good chance that now that will just accelerate to warp speed.

ROGIN: Yes. Of course, those were vicious lies when Carrie Lam uttered them. And now, just weeks later they're obviously revealed as a lies.

And of course, it's not Carrie Lam's fault she has become nothing more than sort of a spokesman regurgitating the words that are given to her by her party state masters in Beijing. And that's the reality.

And, as you noted, for years the Chinese Communist Party tried to sort of gaslight the world by pretending to believe in these values and now, as the people of Hong Kong are learning in brutal fashion, the most brutal fashion, none of that was true.

And it's impossible for anyone, honestly, to say that it's true. And now that's the reality that we have to deal with.

VAUSE: We wish him (ph) luck. Josh, thank you. Good to see you.

ROGIN: Thank you.

VAUSE: Well, unraveling one of the mysteries of the coronavirus. Why some who survive COVID-19 never seem to make a full recovery.

Also, after causing chaos in Portland, President Trump warns federal forces will be sent to other cities mostly run by Democrats.



VAUSE: There are so many more unknowns than knowns when it comes to the coronavirus, including this: why some patients are still dealing with serious symptoms months after they were diagnosed and apparently cured. How long can those problems last?

Hard-hit European countries like the U.K. and Italy are beginning to offer rehabilitation services for those with lingering effects. Only (ph) a few wide-ranging because research now suggests the coronavirus can damage multiple organs.

Those patients are called "long-haulers" and Amy Watson is one of them. She had a fever for more than a hundred days. She created a Facebook support group in the U.S.

She talked to my colleague Michael Holmes about the many difficulties patients can face once they are released from hospital.


AMY WATSON, LONG-HAUL COVID FIGHTER: Pretty much any system of the body can be affected by COVID where we were -- initially, we're told that it was a respiratory virus. That is just not the case. It seems to be more vascular in nature and is impacting pretty much every, you know, system in the body causing, you know, for me I have a chronic fever 127 days running, burning nerve pain, profuse sweating especially night sweats, intense fatigue, headaches, loss of appetite, pleurisy, other cardiac conditions like tachycardia, memory issues and brain fog, shortness of breath. You know, your regular --


HOLMES: And these things go on literally for weeks and weeks and weeks. Would you say 127 days of fever?

WATSON: 127 days today.

HOLMES: My goodness. What goes through your mind when you hear the President say that in 99 percent of cases COVID is no big deal?

WATSON: White rage perhaps. That, you know, he is ill-informed. And he's not tuned into the reality of people -- real life people out here in the world who are living with this, you know.

It is not a matter of you either die or you recover. You know, many of us recover but never fully recover. And we are all wondering, is this permanent? Do I now have a chronic illness?

HOLMES: Do you fear you will have it forever? Do others in the group say they feel that they will have this forever?

WATSON: Absolutely. It is a fear. There are people in our groups who have recovered. And a lot of them will say -- about 95 percent, they're still having some symptoms and, you know, getting better day by day.

A lot of the progress is so incremental it is almost hard to notice until you look back a month or two months and realize, like, ok I can climb a flight of stairs now without having to stop and catch my breath. That's all (ph).


VAUSE: Joining me now Dr. Zejian Chen, medical director for Mount Sinai Center for Post-COVID Care, and Dr. David Putrino, director of rehabilitation innovation for the Mount Sinai Health System. Thank you both for being us.




VAUSE: You're welcome. Now, we have this desire in our world, we'd like to order everything. And it's seems with the COVID-19 we have two columns: those who die and those who recover. But Dr. Chen, first to you, recover doesn't actually mean a full recovery, does it? It seems more like they didn't die and for some patients the effects of COVID-19 can linger for a very long time.

So I'm wondering what are you finding out, you know, who does this mostly affect and do you have like a number of patients who may see these long term effects?

DR. CHEN: Yes. I mean that is absolutely correct, you know. There are now, we think three groups of patients for COVID-19: the ones who are succumbing to COVID-19, and then there are patients who recover completely, and then what we're seeing as we have more and more clinical exchange, there's a very large group of patients that have lingering effects from the COVID infection.

We've been seeing patients for months now since the peak in New York City. And what we are seeing is that there are many patients with, you know, many different symptoms, post infection including pulmonary, cardiac and neurological symptoms. And the more patients we see, you know, the range of symptoms that they have are ever increasing.

And Dr. Putrino, I guess the assumption would be that those who had the most severe symptoms will face the longest road to recovery, but that's not necessarily the case. I think there's been some recent studies which suggest that those who suffer the mild symptoms are the ones who are likely to see symptoms to last longer. Do we know why that is?

DR. PUTRINO: Yes, that's correct. We are suddenly seeing THE people who are experiencing long term symptoms, sort of spreading out into two tales. There are other people who had very severe symptoms and are now deconditioned (ph) and need to slowly recover, and we are working with that group of individuals.

But there's also a new group that has been emerging that we are getting more and more evidence around every single day. And this is a group of individuals that had mild to moderate symptoms. Maybe, you know, they weren't too concerned about their symptoms when they were in it, but following recovery they've started to develop a new set of symptoms.

And these symptoms are really troubling. They are experiencing high heart rates. They are experiencing extreme fatigue. All sorts of GI symptoms, all sorts of breathlessness and dizziness and changes -- rapid changes in blood pressure and all sorts of very scary signs and symptoms.

And this is a group of people who are young, previously healthy and, you know, this level of debilitation is very new to them.

VAUSE: Dr. Chen, to you, how important is it to know the difference here between long term effects from treating the disease like lung damage from being on a ventilator, compared to the shortness of breath which Dr. Putrino is talking about which is very common amongst all other survivors. DR. CHEN: Well, we need to know the difference because, you know, this

is something that is completely unexpected. For patients that are admitted to the ICU, we do expect that some of them will have long lingering disease from their ICU stay.

However, when we look at these patients who have mild symptoms as Dr. Putrino described, it's very unexpected for them to have very, very long-term symptoms. And because of that we need to identify these patients and then give them the appropriate treatment.

And we need to identify them because sometimes it's unexpected for the general public to have mild disease and then, you know, have these long lingering symptoms. So part of it is about educating the public to know that some of their symptoms may be treatable.

VAUSE: You know, the U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, years ago, he's (INAUDIBLE) the limits of U.S. intelligence, he told reporters there are known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. So Dr. Putrino is there, you know, when you look at the unknown unknowns, you know, is there concern out there which, you know, keeps you up at night?

DR. PUTRINO: I mean we are learning every day. And I think that the main message that has to go out to both patients and to doctors is all of this is unknown. We are slowly learning. We are all learning together. And in cases of new diseases emerging, I think it is so important that we go right back to basics which is listening to patients when they come in and they tell us what their lived experience is.

Patients being patient with doctors when a doctor is sort of scrambling to find a proper intervention for a patient because they've never seen what they are seeing before. I think that there are a lot of unknowns in our path and we really just need to work together to grow our body of knowledge as quickly as possible so that we can treat all of these new signs and symptoms that are emerging from COVID.

VAUSE: And last question for Dr. Chen, we're almost out of time, but we're looking at a couple of promising vaccines being developed right now. Do we know what effect a developed vaccine would have on people with those long term symptoms?


DR. CHEN: I mean currently the knowledge of these vaccines is, you know, very limited at best because many of the vaccines are still under early human trials, if they are even in human trials.

And given that, we don't know what their effect on -- will be on the initial infection, let alone these long-lasting symptoms. And that is the unfortunate thing that we will not find out until we have (ph) a vaccine.

VAUSE: We'll put that in the unknown unknowns category.

Dr. Chen and Dr. Putrino, thank you so much for being with us. And thank you for your work, too. It's very much appreciated.

DR. PUTRINO: Thank you for having us.

DR. CHEN: Thank you.

Well, officials are warning that hospital capacity in Los Angeles County could be maxed out within two weeks. For the fourth time in just over a week though, the county has broken its own record for the number of people hospitalized with the coronavirus. It means California is inching closer to surpassing New York's record of having the most cases in the country.

So what went wrong in California? Here is Sara Sidner.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you're sleeping, you're on your belly? Ok.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The staff at this California hospital is nearing exhaustion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every breathing minute I think about COVID-19.

SIDNER: In this video diary from inside Eisenhower Health in Rancho Mirage, Nurse Catherine Davis says she is used to seeing one death a year in her unit. With 700 COVID patients treated here so far, she has now seen 40 deaths.

DR. ANIL PERUMBETI, PULMONOLOGIST: We would ensure that that a patient does not die alone. So, you know, we would take turns, spending time with them and holding their hand and talking to them.

SIDNER: Doctors knew they had the beds to treat the surge, but not the staff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we heard that the next, you know, wave of relief might come in in two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, you know, that is when things become a little bit desperate.

SIDNER: They asked the federal government for help and it arrived. An Air Force medical team of about 20 helped shoulder the unending load. The stress here, repeated all over California.

So how did we get here? The state was the first to announce a stay-at- home order. That was March 19th.

GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: This is a moment we need to make tough decisions.

SIDNER: Seven weeks later the governor reopened the state on May 8.

NEWSOM: You have bent the curve.

SIDNER: But that wasn't to be.

By early June, the seven-day average for new daily coronavirus cases was more than 2,600. By July 11th, it peaked at more than 9,400 -- more than a 250 percent increase.

Anne Rimoin, you're a renowned epidemiologist, what went wrong in California?

DR. ANNE RIMOIN, EPIDEMIOLOGIST: You know, we opened up too soon. We did not have the virus totally under control.

SIDNER: Experts agree, resident and local governments got complacent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to be back on the field now.

SIDNER: Case in point, three suburban counties near L.A. all lifted their mask requirements under heavy pressure from angry residents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: None of this is based on science, but rather a nefarious political agenda to silence the people and strip freedoms from hardworking Americans.

SIDNER: Now hardworking Americans in all three counties are seeing a COVID surge. And hospital beds are filling up.

CATHERINE DAVIS, COVID UNIT NURSING DIRECTOR: And that's frightening because where do we go from there?

SIDNER: Are patients telling you how they might have gotten it.


Well some of them are partiers. Some of them have gone out and gone to parties, no masks.

SIDNER: But Los Angeles County did and still does have strict mask requirements. Tickets are even being issued if you don't comply and yet it's still the epicenter of a California surge.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: How much worse does it have to get in Los Angeles before you feel compelled to issue another stay-at-home order?

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES: Well, I think we're on the brink of that.

DAVIS: People are not following the rules. They are not waring masks. They're not social distancing.

SIDNER: Among them, California's 40 and under, who make up more than half of the states' new cases. Also hard hit the Latino community, which makes up a third of the state's population but more than half of COVID infections.

RIMOIN: Sometimes it's mom and dad's work experience, that has brought them into contact with it. And then it goes through the whole family.

SIDNER: Experts say fixing all this comes only one way.

RIMOIN: You have to just shut down for now. I think that that is our only way out. SIDNER: Pulmonologist Perumbeti and Nurse Davis both saying that they are seeing in their hospitals 20- and 30-year-olds regularly who are so sick they can barely turn themselves over. Even having difficulty sipping water. They are telling people it doesn't matter your age, do what is right, wear a mask, self distance, so we can finally get back to normal at some point.

Sara Sidner, CNN -- Los Angeles County, California.


VAUSE: Local and state officials in Oregon are warning a secret federal police force deployed in the city of Portland is undermining democracy and the constitution. Mostly peaceful protesters have been on the streets for weeks.

But the Department of Homeland Security describes the incidents and violence there as terrorism. And there's no sign that federal agents will be leaving anytime soon.


VAUSE: Portland's mayor spoke to CNN's Don Lemon and said the federal agents have made the situation worse.


MAYOR TED WHEELER, PORTLAND, OREGON: This is just crazy. We were coming to the end of our nightly demonstrations, at least the part where people are vandalizing things and some scattered acts of violence.

But we saw the energy coming out of that. We thought it would be done in a couple of days. But then the federal government sent in dozens, if not hundreds, of troops. They engaged in what I would describe as really abhorrent tactics and basically they blew the lid off of this.

Since they've been here we've had huge crowd come downtown, we've had more violence, we've had more violence. They basically kicked the hornets' nest.


VAUSE: And President Trump is threatening to expand the federal crackdown on protests in other U.S. cities, all led by Democrats. Officials say 150 agents were deployed in Chicago to focus on illegal gun sales, gun violence and outstanding warrants.

In a tweet, Chicago's mayor said she would not allow troops in the city no matter what the President says. And with five other mayors, she sent a letter to the Attorney General objecting to federal forces in their cities.

Now, the administration, insisting on sending federal agents with no markings, no ID, no insignia to protests is raising some very serious questions about the constitution. CNN's intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer has this very stark assessment.


BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: This is the beginning of martial law. There's no other way to describe it. The paranoid months ago said this was coming and it's here.

The President has the full authority to send in homeland security or the military into Portland and other cities. And apparently this is what he intends to do.

You know, frankly John, this reminds me of Egypt, you know, during the Arab Spring when the military went in and just took over, closed down the riots.

And John, I've got to say something that really bothers me is the way these guys were dressed. They've taken their uniform from Special Forces, from Delta Force and Seals. I mean they are there for combat not for riot control.


VAUSE: Now, investigators say the man who shot a U.S. federal judge's family over the weekend has gone and killed himself. Roy Den Hollander, a lawyer posed as a delivery man and opened fire at the home of Judge Esther Salas in New Jersey. Salas was not injured but her husband, a former prosecutor, was wounded and their 20-year-old son was killed.

Den Hollander's body was found Monday. Authorities say he shot himself. He had called himself an anti-feminist lawyer who argued one case before Salas and disparaged her online.

Well, still to come antibodies are crucial in the development of a vaccine but they have so much more potential. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is up next with a look at just valuable antibodies are in the fight against COVID-19.



VAUSE: There are more than 23 vaccines in development around the world to fight the coronavirus. But experts say a different kind of treatment could be the key when it comes to blocking COVID-19.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains.


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If there's one thing most humans on the planet want right now, it's antibodies. Your body can produce them if you are infected. A vaccine can also provide you with them. But there's another way. It's called antibody therapy. That means

taking the antibodies from the blood of someone who's already been infected and recovered from COVID-19.

DR. MARSHALL LYON III, INFECTIOUS DISEASES, EMORY UNIVERSITY: We have used it for rabies for hundreds of years. More recent history in the ebola outbreak in West Africa, people tried something called convalescent plasma.

DR. GUPTA: Dr. Marshall Lyon is an infectious disease physician at Emory University. He also treated some of the first ebola patients in the United States.

DR. LYON: And so plasma is the part of the blood which contains all of these antibodies.

DR. GUPTA: Within the plasma, you are likely to find antibodies which specifically attached to this part of the virus, it's called the spike protein. And it is the key to entering human cells.

DR. BARNEY GRAHAM, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, VACCINE RESEARCH CENTER, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: If an antibody binds this little finger part, that is obviously going to block the attachment to the cell. That will neutralize the virus.

DR. GUPTA: Dr. Barney Graham is deputy director of the Vaccine Research Center at the National Institutes of Health.

DR. GRAHAM: There's other spots that you can bind the protein that disrupts its function.

DR. GUPTA: What he is describing are called neutralizing antibodies. They work to block the virus from actually infecting cells in our body.

DR. GRAHAM: Having the antibody, or the plasma from convalescent patients allows you to accomplish at least temporarily what we are trying to accomplish with a vaccine. So you can just give the antibody (INAUDIBLE) acid immunization and you can give the antibody ahead of time and create temporary immunity.

DR. GUPTA: Taking antibodies in that plasma and giving that to somebody, either to help protect them against becoming infected or even possibly as a treatment. How effective should that type of antibody therapy be? Convalescent plasma?

DR. GRAHAM: It's very important that serum therapies and plasma therapies and even (INAUDIBLE) hemoglobin therapies are tested both as treatment for serious disease but maybe also intervention in the early phase of infection, so that it progress to serious disease.

DR. GUPTA: The hope is that these antibodies can do a preemptive strike, preventing more serious disease from developing in someone who is infected or maybe even blocking infection altogether in people who are at high risk like health care workers. Some have even called it a bridge to the vaccine. Companies like these Eli Lilly and Regeneron are now trialing therapies using neutralizing antibodies founded in recovered patients but then manufactured in the lab. They are known as monoclonal antibody therapies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be able to put them to good use in therapy or prevention is really exciting new technology.

DR. GUPTA: But there is an issue. Some recent research has found that COVID-19 antibodies may wane after several weeks. And it was those who are sickest who tend to produce the most antibodies.

Keep in mind, the majority of people with COVID experience just mild symptoms.

How does that compare to how long the antibodies should last from a vaccine?

DR. GRAHAM: For antibodies, the typical half life of an antibody in humans is around three to four weeks. And so those antibodies are given at a high dose that lasts for a couple of months.

DR. GUPTA: These are all considerations in developing a COVID-19 treatment as well as a vaccine.


VAUSE: Well, in the last few weeks, there have been so many demands for change across the U.S. Now, one banking group is also demanding change -- dime, penny, nickels, quarters -- all that stuff.

The community safe Bank of Wisconsin says the COVID-19 pandemic is driving a coin shortage across the nation. Some clients can't offer change and that might drive customers away. So the bank is now offering a coin buyback program, customers and non-customers alike can get $5 for every 111 coins they bring in after a $500 bonus. And that's not small change.

Kick off is almost here for NFL training camps and players can expect some new rules for COVID-19. The league's new testing agreement -- that's just ahead.



VAUSE: The National Football League in the United States has reached a deal with the players' union on COVID-19 testing. Players will be screened at the start of training camps and tested daily for two weeks. After that the league might move to testing every other day.

A source tells CNN every player will need to test negative multiple times before entering team facilities. Teams report to training camps one week from today.

And the National Basketball Association reports no positive result from 346 players tested since July 15th. It was a different story just more than one week ago. That's when it was announced that two players that tested positive at a Disney World resort bubble in Florida. the NBA says players will be isolated when they test positive.

Well, Anthony Fauci the leading expert on infectious diseases who has already found themselves at odds with the President could soon be on that naughty list again.

Fauci is a huge fan of the Washington Nationals baseball team, so naturally he was thrilled to accept an invitation by the Nats to throw out the first pitch on the Thursday, the opening night of the season.

Now this honor is typically carried out by presidents, but not this president. Donald Trump has never done it. He's never been invited. In fact, he was booed simply for turning up at Game 5 between the Nets and the Astros in Washington during the world series.

Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM.

My colleague Robyn Curnow will have more news from all around the world a short break. See you tomorrow.