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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump Claims Kids Don't Transmit COVID-19 Easily; Three Big School Districts Cancel Plans For In-Person Classes; U.S. Senator Accuses New Mexico Sheriff Of Inviting Trump's " Stormtroopers" Into Albuquerque. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 22, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR, NEW DAY: Kitty was known as a strong woman. Friends and colleagues say she was witty, fiercely intelligent, and lived a long and vibrant life. Kitty Hoffman was a 105-years-old. May all of the memories be a blessing!
The news continues. So, I now hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, appreciate it, John.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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CUOMO: This country is not going to get back on track unless there is a plan to reopen schools safely. That's what I mean when I say "Let's get after it." We're not selling T-shirts here.
Every day that passes without the Task Force, this White House, Congress, someone in power, on the Federal level, telling us what will be done to help the states because just look around you. They clearly don't have the resources or the wherewithal to go it alone.
Every day that passes without a plan is a day that makes it less likely we will get this all-important job done. And what the President peddled today will not cut it.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We do have a national strategy. But, as you know, ultimately it's up to the governors of the states.
I would like to see the schools open, open a 100 percent. And we'll do it safely. We'll do it carefully. But when you look at the statistic - statistics I just read, having to do with children and - and safety, they're very impressive. They have very strong immune systems.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --some schools--
TRUMP: Well, they do say that they don't transmit very easily. And a lot of people are saying they don't transmit.
They don't catch it easily. They don't bring it home easily. And if they do catch it, they get better fast. We're looking at that fact.
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CUOMO: Not a fact! Something that is unknown, and we do not know how asymptomatic people, including kids, present as spread risks, so if it's unknown, it is not a fact.
And, by the way, what about the people teaching them? What about the people taking care of the schools? What about if they get sick? See, you have to have a plan. You have to think. You can't just want things to happen.
It is also not a fact that we have a strategy. Trump saying there is a strategy, if anything, makes it less likely. Here is the rule. We only know what they can show. Where is this plan? The CDC had guidelines for states. The White House closed them down. Stop the BS!
The President said he knows the pandemic may get worse. So, what are you going to do about it? Make a plan. Let the experts do it. Bring them to the briefings, so we can hear the truth, like the truth about what we know, and don't, about kids and cases.
Listen.
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DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: I think there are still open questions there. And that's why the President concluded with "We're studying this very hard."
I think it's a very important question that we have to understand. "Do children under 10 transmit the virus less?" That's what the South Korea study suggests. But I think it really needs to be confirmed here.
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CUOMO: Not a fact! She did her best to cover for what he said. Well that's why he said he's studying.
He never emphasized the studying part. He made it sound to you like he knew. He doesn't know because the scientists don't know because it's not scientific. We haven't studied it. We don't know. So, we need a plan. #WhereIsThePlan? #DoYourJob.
Congress, too! Be outraged at the inaction. Show us what should be done. Hold Zoom hearings. Come to us from your districts. Tell us what they need. Call out the President. Call out the Task Force. Do something.
The rest of us, we have to get loud about this. I know you're frustrated. I know you've had it. But how do we get to a better place? We only know what they show. For instance, Trump showing up alone, why? So the scientists aren't there to rebut his BS.
We don't have any more time for this. We're about to hit 4 million cases. We're on track to hit a million new cases in just a two-week timeframe.
Our COVID death toll topped a 1,000 yesterday for the first time in two weeks. Nearly 13,000 cases reported just today in California. It's a new record there. They now have the highest total cases in the United States.
Now, I know, I say these numbers, and it's like the Teacher from Charlie Brown. I know.
I know that we're drowning in numbers. But I'm just doing the obvious to present the obvious. We're not doing well. And we know why. That's the part that's killing me is we know why.
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The testing is a nightmare. The testing is a nightmare. How many of you have heard stories that people still can't find a place to get a test, they got to wait in line for hours, and then if they do get the test, how long for a result? Some, 24 hours, 48 hours. Great!
Others? Come on. Be honest. More often than not, days, a week, more than a week, what good is that? What about all the things that happens in those week 10 days? What are you supposed to? Just stay home, even if you don't feel badly? Nobody is telling you what to do.
And the President is at best all-talk. He finally told you yesterday marks - masks are now a must. It's been true for months. But when it comes to action, that's his job, it's hard to find a mask at his indoor White House event today.
If it's so important, where are they? Where are - where are they? All these guys immune? Are they people we can get plasma from and study? What does this tell you?
President says he'll make a decision in the next 24 hours about mandating mask use in Federal buildings, like the White House. Why didn't he set the example and start today? Why didn't they have masks on? Because it's not real to him. He's scared. He doesn't like the polls.
But that's not our problem. We have to get our kids back to school. It is the key. Why? Because in order to get kids back to school we've got to up the smarts of how we test.
We have to test better, smarter. We have to trace more smarter. It will require communities to have to be more responsible because you need to keep your numbers in check for the kids. We have to have a plan because we have to be doing the same things in
similar places across the country, so there is continuity to the change. Otherwise, we'll keep getting killed by pockets, clusters.
If the kids aren't in school, you can't get back to work the way you want. How many of you are hearing about people having to take part- time work because they can't do the hours. The kids are going to be home. So, the economy can't really accelerate.
The kids are the hub. If we are not all together and with a plan that unites efforts, I'm telling you, we are in for a long, hard winter.
Let's look at the reality with Chief Doctor Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, thank you for joining me, as always.
And, just to be clear, I don't know of any strategy to help schools reopen.
Every State official, I talk to, expresses need and expresses frustration that while they've had a little bit of contact here and there with the Federal government, there are no guidelines. There is no accessing of resources. There is no real help to figure out what they are struggling to figure out themselves.
Your experience?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I talk to administrators all over the country. And it is a total patchwork, you know, different strategies in different places.
People really trying to, you know, figure it out on their own, you know. To their credit, many of these administrators, sort of trying to look at the science, they're asking me about the scientific data, you know, trying to figure this out.
There's a couple of things that we do know. I mean there's a lot we don't. There's a couple things we do know. And that is that this South Korean study, I think, was an interesting study. These are hard studies to do.
They did a contact tracing study, and they found that kids, 10 and older, spread the virus just as much as adults. So, just keep that in the back of the mind, as you think about what is likely to happen, in areas where the virus is already spreading.
Take a look at this graphic from Israel. Chris, I'm sure you've seen this before. But you can get an idea of what could possibly happen in a community. When the schools start to reopen, you could see a sudden, significant increase overall in cases. This is what we're trying to avoid.
Second point, Chris, and very important one, and this was - this was part of those gating criteria, from months ago, that everyone, you know, basically ignored, as soon as they came out.
But they basically said, "If you have 14-day downward trend in the community, you're ready to graduate to the next phase."
And, on the flip side, they said, "If you see five days of increase, sustained community increase, in your community, you've got to go back to the earlier phase, and that means not opening schools." I mean, you know, look, it's as simple as that.
We don't really know about kids younger than 10, Chris. For the most part, they haven't been out that much since mid-March. They don't have as many contacts. They're much harder to study. But they could also be spreading the virus. And that's the big concern here.
CUOMO: And look, you don't have to be certain about the science. My reckoning, from talking to different people is, let's plan this way.
Assume they're all going to have it. Plan that way. Assume it's going to happen. You're going to have cases. So now, what do you do? What kind of equipment do you need for the teachers?
GUPTA: Right.
CUOMO: What kind of spacing? What kind of staffing? I don't hear any idea, you know, robust idea debate coming. I don't hear it on the Federal level. I don't hear it on the State level.
You know, we have the Superintendent from Fairfax County. They pulled back. They're going all remote now. I want to question that.
Did they think about the unused public spaces, the libraries, the churches that aren't being used, renting them, bringing in more staff? Are they thinking this way? Is anybody telling them to think this way?
GUPTA: Right.
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CUOMO: You know, I think that we're really going to set ourselves up, Doc, for the next wave of pain by what happens with our kids.
GUPTA: Yes. I think you're right. I mean, you know, I think because there hasn't been guidance, you know, people are sort of trying to come up with some of these strategies on their own.
I talked to my own School Administrator for my kids and, you know, "What's the biggest concern?" "Square footage," they said. "We just need space. We're trying to find space in all the various ways that we can."
The other thing, Chris, and you've brought this up for many months now, and you just said it again, the testing.
It's very interesting to me that even if you go to the CDC guidelines now, they say there is no universal sort of requirement or guidance around testing. I still don't understand why not.
Why don't we have to - it's not a panacea. And I'm not suggesting that it is. But if you had more - more available, rapid, accurate testing, you'd have a pretty good idea at least that you are not carrying the virus.
CUOMO: Right.
GUPTA: People around you are not carrying the virus. It's remarkably hard to get.
Chris, I was in the operating room, on Monday, doing brain surgery on somebody. I could not get a COVID test on the patient that I was about to operate on. Therefore, I had to wear personal protective equipment. All my residents, the anesthesiology team, the scrub nurses, circulating nurses, everyone had to do it.
We could do brain surgery on someone. We can check their coagulation numbers. I can do a Cardiac Echo on somebody. I can do all these tests, sophisticated tests, on this patient. Do this operation on this patient.
But we still can't get a rapid response COVID test to know that we're, you know, at least not dealing with somebody who has COVID, and we don't have to wear the personal protective equipment throughout the entire operation. That's where we still are, in July, in this country.
So, you know, the schools, you know--
CUOMO: But why wouldn't we be there?
GUPTA: --one thing--
CUOMO: Why wouldn't we be there?
GUPTA: I--
CUOMO: You've been around a lot of different viruses and situations around the world. Without exception, in every one of the circumstance you've been in, the catalyst for change is always the man or woman in charge.
They are on message. They are repeating the message to death. They are all about that message. They make it their mantra. They make it their methodology for leadership. They make it the sum total of their existence.
You know, look, obviously, I'm not objective about the guy. But my brother talked about nothing else but what they had to do. Did he get everything right? Of course not.
But we don't have that here. The President doesn't want to own testing. He doesn't want these numbers to be real. That's the only explanation that makes sense.
Look, you talk to the Task Force guys all the time. They want to do the job. The CDC guys--
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: --they want to do the job. Why aren't they doing it differently or more? They're being told not to. That's got to be the only answer. There is no other answer that makes sense. We've never done it this way before.
GUPTA: I think that the testing problem, in some ways, has been a manifestation of a larger issue, almost since the very start, which was a desire to minimize this problem, to ignore it, to pretend that it wasn't there.
Lost an entire month of February. Lost part of March. In that time, the virus continued to spread, like wildfire, as everyone has described it now.
So when we say that we've done more testing now, and in terms of absolute numbers, perhaps that's true, but that's because we needed to because we have a lot more viral spread.
But I think the original sin, even before testing, is really the, I think, the tip of the spear problem. But before that even is this desire to minimize the problem.
What I think boggles my mind, Chris, is at this point even, even in hospitals, even in nursing homes, there are places that still have a hard time getting tests.
CUOMO: And getting them processed.
GUPTA: The best thing to say about tests right now is--
CUOMO: And getting the results.
GUPTA: And to getting them processed. If you don't get them back within five days, they're really not doing anything in terms of curbing this pandemic.
But I'll take it a step further after talking to sources yesterday. And that is that the idea of testing, so that you can bring down the numbers, isolate, quarantine, all that, I think that we've basically we're in no position to do that right now because there is so much virus. All we can do is flag hotspots.
CUOMO: Yes.
GUPTA: We can say "There's a fire there. OK, throw water on it. Fire there. Throw water on it." That's no way to take care of the underlying problem.
It's just taking care of the symptoms but not the underlying problems. So, that's what, you know, that's what really worries me is we're still not addressing the fundamental, underlying problem in this country.
CUOMO: We are not taking care of what we can, and we're being arrogant about what we don't understand. We're making assumptions about kids. We're making assumptions about asymptomatic.
This study that just came out of UCLA, I've been speculating on this for a long time, because anecdotally, I keep hearing people saying, "You know, I didn't have that bad a case, but my antibodies are gone. Isn't that weird? My antibodies have gone."
I keep hearing from people. "Hey, you know, I got tested again. My antibodies are gone." We're hearing it. We'll see what it means. But this comfort we're taking in that, you know, "When people get it, this is over for them," I don't buy it.
Dr. Gupta, I love you and thank you.
GUPTA: You got it. We'll talk soon.
CUOMO: All right.
And look, again, this isn't pie in the sky talk. Other countries that are far less sophisticated than we are, from a public health perspective, they've come up with ways to reopen schools, and keep them open. Why haven't we? Why don't we have a plan?
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Just demanding "Open Sesame" is not magic, doesn't cut it. They're going to need guidance and resources. We need a strategy that can be applied to similar situations across this country. What is the Task Force doing otherwise?
We have big school districts in the President's backyard now defying pressure from the White House. Why? Because they can't do, what he's saying to do.
The Superintendent of one, Loudoun County, on why - they had a plan. Now, they've had to pull back and go all-virtual. I said Fairfax County. I mean Loudoun. They're both very big. They're both in the same situation.
We'll speak to the Superintendent about the reality, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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CUOMO: Three of the largest school districts in the country are canceling plans to open up classrooms for in-person learning in the weeks ahead, Montgomery County in Maryland, Fairfax and Loudoun counties in Virginia. Now, they each initially rolled out a hybrid plan. You've heard that
term. It's a few days in-person, different shifts, combined with distance learning. Now they're going all-remote.
Now interestingly, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos called Fairfax County's original hybrid plan a disaster.
My question that we'll be able to get an answer to, I think, in a second, is did she offer any better guidance to any of these counties? Is there any resource offer? Is there a guideline? Is there a plan? Is there even an extended offer?
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Joining us now, the Superintendent, for Loudoun County Public Schools, Eric Williams.
Mr. Williams, thank you for joining PRIME TIME.
ERIC WILLIAMS, SUPERINTENDENT, LOUDOUN COUNTY, VA PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you.
CUOMO: So, let's talk macro, and then get micro.
Macro, am I unaware of this plan that's been offered to you, and other counties, all over the country, from the Federal government, with how you should reopen safely and how you can get resources if you need them and good ideas to make it happen?
WILLIAMS: So, we have not received Federal assistance, as it relates to the specifics of planning to reopen schools. We have received some support and resource documents at the State level but not from the Federal level.
CUOMO: OK. Now, of course, I knew that. I just - I want the people to hear from you because I really think this is a big problem.
You are faced with challenges that you cannot satisfy on your own. You don't have the money. You don't have the staffing. You don't have the space. And you don't have anybody giving you solutions to those problems.
Is that an accurate assessment?
WILLIAMS: It is absolutely accurate that the resources and the solutions are key challenges that we face.
CUOMO: OK. So, in the Federal level, they're not doing it. You haven't heard of anything like that. A little bit from the State, which should make sense, right? It is primarily a State issue. But you'd think in a state of emergency, you'd have Federal assistance.
Now to the micro, why did you pull back from the hybrid to the all- remote?
WILLIAMS: So, we received State guidance two days (ph) the State Public Health Commissioner saying "Hey, before you reopen, you need to have a health plan filed, and the Governor is setting forth parameters for how we can reopen schools."
And so, within three weeks, as you mentioned, on June 29th, our Board had endorsed this concept of opening with a hybrid model, and while also offering parents a choice of a 100 percent distance learning.
But, within three weeks - so our Board voted to support my recommendation last night, so within three weeks, we received new information that led us to instead plan to start the new school year a 100 percent distance learning, but with few exceptions, with a plan to implement our hybrid - original hybrid plans in stages.
CUOMO: Why?
WILLIAMS: So, we received a number of different, additional information.
First of all, we have new experience with implementing in-person learning ourselves, on a very limited basis.
So, last Monday, 10 days ago, we began on a very small scale, providing in-person learning to students with disabilities. And that experience has really reinforced our understanding of the challenges related to in-person learning. And that's one of those--
CUOMO: How so?
WILLIAMS: Well, just for example, so students, very well-meaning students, arrive at the beginning of this abbreviated day, 4 hours, 4.5 hours, wearing face coverings. And it varies extensively, in terms of the extent and length of day that they ended up - ended up wearing them. And so, that's an example of one challenge.
Also, some students, there are particular challenges with in terms of not being able to operate effectively with - and still maintain six feet of physical distancing. Successfully working with certain students requires closer contact. And so that's a challenge.
So, our experience with the in - with the in-person learning has shown the complexities, not just about students, but it's about consistent practices by staff, who are incredibly hard-working.
But we need to - we need to give reminders to administrators, and teachers need to constantly remind us, "Oh, hey, we do need to pay attention to six feet - six feet physical distancing."
But that's just one piece of additional information. Some other new information that we have, from our - the Director of Loudoun County Health Department, relates to the amount of time to receive test results. So, in the last several weeks, the amount of time for processing test results--
CUOMO: Too long.
WILLIAMS: --for Loudoun County has increased. CUOMO: Yes.
WILLIAMS: The Director of the Health Department explains that that is a result of the national rise in cases.
CUOMO: Yes.
WILLIAMS: But that increase in testing is of significant concern.
CUOMO: Yes. I keep hearing it. I keep hearing it.
And I know you guys are talking to one another. I know you're starting all these new network connections and stuff among educators around the country. And I have to tell you. I don't even like that.
I mean, obviously, we love communication between people. You learn from each other. But you shouldn't have to. You guys are like all islands, across this country, trying to figure out things for yourself.
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The testing is the key because you can't have six days, seven days, 10 days before you know whether you have a problem in a group like that. Everybody becomes exposed to risk during that time.
Well, look, we're going to stay on this because you need better solutions. Remote learning stinks. Stinks for you guys, it stinks for the families. And it stinks for the economy. So, we have to find better solutions.
WILLIAMS: True.
CUOMO: I appreciate you putting health first and looking for solutions. Superintendent Eric Williams, you are always welcome to use this as a platform to tell us the reality on the ground, OK?
WILLIAMS: Sounds good.
CUOMO: All right. You know, just think about if we had the same urgency.
Look, you heard the guy, all right? He does not get paid to not have school. It's not good for his future to be coming up with solutions like this. I guarantee you that that people are not happy with what they're hearing.
But you can't get the tests back. Why? Why? Why haven't we had the energy, on the Federal level, for this that the President put into the wall that the President is putting into this surge of Federal agents? It's not a State issue either.
This is not about protecting courthouses, OK? It's not what was happening in Portland. You know it. You saw it first person on the tape. You met the guy, the Navy Vet, who went there, and they tried to kick his ass, OK? Wasn't about him going into the Courthouse. It's about hyper-policing in those situations to send a political
message. And the President wants to do more. "These cities, plagued with violent crime, I'm going to send more of my guys in." What does that have to do with courthouses?
The governors that want more help fighting COVID, they're on their own. Why? Why all the urgency to deal with a situation that you can't control, you can only make worse and no urgency on the situation you could actually help? Can you answer that?
Let's deal with the controversy and the facts, next.
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CUOMO: So, timing matters. There are no coincidences.
On the heels of what happened in Portland, with Federal officers coming on the scene there, right, today, a big announcement, "A surge of Federal law enforcement, to combat the recent spike in homicides, around the country."
The President, Attorney General, Director of the FBI, Acting DHS Secretary, all there, lot more manpower than showed up to talk about the pandemic, and a lot bigger offer of help with this as well.
Now, just saying additional Federal officers are heading to Chicago, Kansas City, Albuquerque, places where extra resources, to track illegal guns, could certainly help. It all came draped in lies, once again, backed up by the Attorney General.
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TRUMP: The effort to shut down policing in their own communities has led to a shocking explosion of shootings, killings, murders, and heinous crimes of violence.
BILL BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: What we have seen then is a significant increase in violent crime in many cities. And this - this rise is a direct result of the attack on the police forces.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: Who says? So, the increase in homicides, around the country, which was starting before all this that we're dealing with, that's because of the Black Lives Matter Movement?
That's what the Attorney General just said? What's his basis for saying that? Now, what's the truth? He doesn't know that. Not a single Mayor of the cities targeted, by today's announcement, has called for defunding the police. Not one.
And Barr's gross exaggeration of the number of arrests that they've made already in Kansas City, on this show, we've shown you real solutions that would mean tackling the inequality that permeates these communities that creates the desperation that creates the crime.
This President doesn't even talk about it. He doesn't even use the words systemic racism that flows through all of this.
Despite being vilified by this President, the Mayors of Chicago and Kansas City say they welcome help. Of course they do, as long as they don't see a repeat of what's going on in Portland. This isn't about just coming there and beating people up.
The spike in homicides is real.
Does the President have authority? Yes. Bill Clinton did in 1999. He sent Federal officers to fight gun crimes. It was done cooperatively. It's exactly that legitimate use of power, which best illustrates the abuse, the abdication of that same authority by this President.
Opposition to this push is strong, among Democrats, like the U.S. Senator from New Mexico that we have here tonight. And now it's setting off local battles.
The Senator, that we're about to talk to, is accusing the Sheriff in Albuquerque of inviting the President's "Stormtroopers" in. He wants the Sheriff to pay a big price. We're going to talk to him right after this break.
The reality on the ground, what will help, what won't, next.
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(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: We know as a matter of fact that homicide rates are spiking in cities across America. The number of gun-related deaths in this country is dwarfed by the lives lost to Coronavirus. But they both matter.
The question is why is the President only paying attention to one? Why is he so eager to talk up a so-called "Surge" of federal law enforcement while it's been months of waiting on any real action to speed up testing or make our schools safe?
Where is the surge there to help schools reopen? Where is the surge to help hospitals in these states that are overwhelmed? Why aren't they equal priorities?
Let's bring in New Mexico Democratic Senator Martin Heinrich.
It's good to see you. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-NM): Hey, thanks for having me.
CUOMO: So, just let's start with the basics. Did your State ask for help from the Federal government with crime?
HEINRICH: Yes. The City of Albuquerque, the Mayor, the Governor, none of them asked for this assistance, in part because there is simply no trust, at a time when you see the kind of chaos that gets sown in cities like Portland or even in Downtown Washington D.C.
CUOMO: "The Sheriff asked in Albuquerque." Is that enough? And what is your response?
HEINRICH: I'm sorry. The - can you ask the question again? You broke up there.
CUOMO: A local Sheriff asked for help. And he was - he is a big advocate for the Feds coming in. Is that enough?
HEINRICH: OK. They're not sending the support to the County. They're sending that to the City. And they haven't even engaged with the City to talk about what that's going to look like.
What we want to make clear is what's going on in Portland, what went on in Downtown Washington D.C., that is not the kind of help we want. If we're going to have help, we need a written agreement about what that looks like, and that agreement should prohibit the kind of actions that we've seen in Portland.
CUOMO: What do you think this is about for the President?
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HEINRICH: Re-election, pure and simple. He wants to make Albuquerque, he wants to make Chicago, he wants to make Portland, a stage for his re-election campaign. Otherwise, he'd have been there two years ago, three years ago, four years ago.
This is all about his re-election, and a distraction from his failure to be able to address the public health crisis.
CUOMO: Now, for the point of advocacy, I'm OK with the President making it about his election, as long as he is doing the right things. That is what he should be doing to secure the election.
What is your criticism of this methodology of help?
HEINRICH: That one, he has created conflict where conflict did not need to happen. And two, we just haven't gotten any real help.
We've got a lot of rhetoric. We got a big photo-op at the White House. The last time the President tried to engage with the City of Albuquerque, $10 million was promised and never delivered.
That's not how we solve these issues. We need a lot more action, a lot more delivery, and a lot less campaign promises.
CUOMO: What is your concern if a bunch of Federal agents touch down in different municipalities within your State?
HEINRICH: If they have uniforms on, if they're identifiable, if they're operating within their jurisdiction.
We work with the Feds in New Mexico all the time as a matter of course. What we're not used to seeing is the kind of action that we saw in Portland, where people are unidentifiable, where it's hard to tell whether they're actually law enforcement, or not.
And when you have, you know, people who are protesting in a way that is completely non-violent, like the Navy Veteran that you mentioned, and he gets his arm broken, and pepper-sprayed, like we don't need that in our communities.
We love our City. We want to bring down crime. And we'll bring down crime with anyone who wants to partner with us.
But we will not be a backdrop for a campaign commercial that doesn't do anything to solve the underlying problems, and the underlying systemic racism and inequality that you talked about.
CUOMO: You can't stop it either. So what happens next?
HEINRICH: Well we can stand up to it.
And, you know, we're not going to have - we've got a Mayor. We've got a City Police Department. We've got a Governor. We've got a community that expects more from this Administration.
And we're simply not going to take this lying down. We're going to keep fighting until we have guardrails in place to make sure that law enforcement is actually about solving crimes, and not just, you know, a campaign promise with no follow-through.
CUOMO: And the Mayor of Chicago, the Illinois Governor, and the Mayor of Kansas City, they all welcome help, but they're saying what you are saying. Your Mayor in Albuquerque does not welcome help. But that aside, it's about how it's--
HEINRICH: No, actually--
CUOMO: Does the Mayor--
HEINRICH: --I will state--
CUOMO: --want it now?
HEINRICH: I listened to him tonight on another - on a radio station. And what he said is "We don't have the trust to know that what we're going to get is help."
CUOMO: OK.
HEINRICH: We want to solve crimes, and we want to work with the Feds, but we need some guardrails to make sure that that's actually what we're going to get, and we're not going to get what they're getting in Portland.
CUOMO: Well Senator, we're going to stay on the situation. And we remain a platform for you to let us know what's happening on the ground and the realities in the State.
HEINRICH: We will.
CUOMO: All right. Be well and thank you.
HEINRICH: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, so here's another story that's becoming all too common, all right? Now, the outcome here is pretty extreme, but that's why I'm telling you.
A 21-year-old goes out partying. All right, it's hard to keep them home, right? Let's be honest. Even in the COVID era. And it was against the wishes of the parents. But again, it is not easy, all right?
And why the parents are worried? Why are we trying to keep our kids around? Because what happens? Risk. The whole family got sick. And I mean sick, sick.
The Dad has been battling in the ICU. Listen to this.
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JOHN PLACE, SURVIVED CORONAVIRUS: I just wanted to let you know that I made it.
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CUOMO: Poor guy!
Now, new crisis for the family. They want you to learn from their example. This is not just about "Oh, this is the worst-case scenario." This can happen. Meet the family. Listen to what happened and what they want you to know, next.
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PLACE: I'm alive.
It's been a nightmare, the worst thing ever. Wear your mask. Stay your distance. Shit's real.
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CUOMO: There but for the grace go I. But not you. If you stay your distance, if you wear your mask, if you wash your hands, if you observe the protocols, you got a chance of avoiding that.
"I am alive," the words from John Place, husband and father, letting the world know he survived Coronavirus after being on a ventilator for nearly 20 days. John, in the Land of the Damned, is very fortunate.
He tested positive along with his entire family after his 21-year-old son went to an event with friends, where he contracted COVID-19, and passed it on to the rest of the family.
John's wife, Michelle Zymet, joins us now to share their story.
Thank you for taking the opportunity to talk to us. How are you doing? How is the rest of the family?
MICHELLE ZYMET, HUSBAND IN ICU WITH COVID-19, HUSBAND WAS ON VENTILATOR FOR 17 DAYS DUE TO COVID-19: Thank you so much, Chris, first of all, for having me.
We're definitely we're much better now. You know, we're hanging in there. It's been quite an emotional rollercoaster, to say the least. It's like living a real nightmare, you know, the past month.
But I'm doing, you know, doing the best I can, taking care of the kids here, and just keeping them safe, and keeping them here in the house, of course.
[21:50:00] And just, our 6-year-old daughter, especially, is the one who, I think, was hit the hardest, because she is a daddy's girl, and every day, "When's daddy coming home? Where's daddy? You know, I miss daddy. I just want to see daddy."
And we would FaceTime him, you know, as often as we could. So, it's been hard. But we're definitely, again, better now that he's off the ventilator and we're just so very grateful and blessed that he is alive, as you heard.
CUOMO: Yes. Thank God. Thank God for that. And thank God for how you look and sound too. I mean, you know, you're obviously doing well. It doesn't hit everybody in the family the same way.
The person I'm most concerned with is your son, the 21-year-old.
ZYMET: Yes.
CUOMO: He must feel horrible. Does he understand that this is just how it goes? Is his head and his heart - is he in a good place?
ZYMET: He definitely is. You know, we definitely talked about this, you know, quite a bit.
And he knows that I did try to express to him, you know, every time, "Please, wear the mask," you know, "Social distance, try to wash your hands, take a shower when you get home, whatever he could."
And he's - he's a grown man. You know, he's an adult. So, he has to make his own decisions. You know, so he didn't choose wisely. And again, it's very hard. You know, kids are kids. And I do get it.
They want to hang out with their friends. They want to chill and, you know, they get very comfortable. Once they're in that setting, they're sort of laxed and they take off the mask, and now they're drinking, and then, you know, they're in each other's faces pretty much.
CUOMO: Yes.
ZYMET: So, I expressed to him that in no way, shape or form is this a blame game. I'm not trying to shame my stepson. We love him very much.
And he feels very guilty. And he's very afraid. And he was very scared of what's going to happen to his dad. He never thought - none of us thought, in a million years, that this would happen to us.
I mean, you see it on TV, and you say, "Wow! I can't believe it," you know. But until it hits home--
CUOMO: Right.
ZYMET: --it become real, you know. And no one realizes that. And they think they're invincible, and they just want to hang out, and party and they live in a bubble.
And if it happens to them, you know, no big deal, a little cold, a little flu. But that's not the case, you know, man. And you spread it to one, or you come home unfortunately, and then we all catch it.
And then, if you have underlying issues, you could see what happens. You wind up in a hospital, on a ventilator, and God forbid, you know, the worst outcome, so.
CUOMO: Now, what are they telling you about your husband? He got off the ventilator after a long time. I mean, thank God. I mean, you know that he's in rare air, right now.
ZYMET: Yes.
CUOMO: In terms of getting off after that period. What are they telling you about where he is in terms of how far out of the woods?
ZYMET: You know, the doctors, for the most part, they said you're a very lucky woman that your husband pulled through this. We, you know, usually 80 percent, 90 percent don't come off the ventilators--
CUOMO: Thank God. Thank God.
ZYMET: --especially when they have diabetes, high blood pressure and other, you know, other underlying issues.
So, when he came off that ventilator, it was like "Wow!" And they were all ecstatically like a miracle. It had to have been a miracle, you know. And so, we're just so grateful for that. And it's just amazing that he's pulled through right now.
I mean he's far from out of the woods. His breathing has improved. You know, he went from a ventilator to a BiPAP to an oxygen mask, and now he's breathing a little bit better.
But he's - he's weak. He can't even lift his arm. He can't move his legs. He says that they look like twigs. You know, it's four weeks, laying in a bed, with no movement. You can only imagine the muscle mass that you lose, and you have to start from scratch.
And now it's rehab, physical therapy, occupational therapy, we've got a long road ahead, months of, you know, therapy and rehab. And he's a fighter. You know, he's going to pull through. And God bless, thank God that, you know, we're on the right track. So, we're very grateful.
CUOMO: Now, another reason that people don't want this, they're plenty enough already, this ain't cheap if you get sick.
You can't work. Certainly, your situation, you weren't able to work. You didn't know when you were sick and when you weren't. You had to take care of the kids. You had your husband in the hospital.
ZYMET: Right.
CUOMO: The medical costs. Yes, you get a test for free. But what's happening in that hospital--
ZYMET: Yes.
CUOMO: --isn't free.
ZYMET: That's right.
CUOMO: And insurance is always on the side of paying you slow, and asking for money fast. How much have you guys had to come out of pocket?
ZYMET: Well so far, we haven't gotten the bill just yet. But I've heard from quite a few people that have experienced what I'm going through that a couple weeks, even in a hospital, in the ICU, on a ventilator, starts at about $500,000 and up.
So, if we're looking at close to $1 million, I mean, we don't even know, I don't have a clue. You know, I haven't - we haven't worked since March.
Our industry was hit very hard, you know, with the pandemic. We're both in the event industry. So, needless to say, we've just been living off unemployment, you know, which is near a couple thousand dollars.
So now, hit with this, and then rehab, and possible other supplies that we need to provide for him when he does come home, in a month or so, or two months, down the road, you know, it's a lot.
So, luckily, I've been fortunate that my best friend set up a GoFundMe for us. And, you know, we know people from all over the world, and we've been blessed that people, little by little, you know, have been donating. And we're just so grateful.
And it's really going to help us at least get ahead somewhere, and at least pay the bills at the house, and do what we can, at this point, because, you know, we're going to have to take care of the Dad when he gets home. So, it's going to be my next full-time job. And I'll do it gladly.
CUOMO: Listen, we all tell each other for better or worse, right?
ZYMET: That's right. You know it.
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CUOMO: And you're in that - you're in that now. And I wish you the grace, the strength to get through it.
ZYMET: Oh, thank you so much.
CUOMO: And we're very selective about talking about GoFundMe pages. And I know people are going to say like "Well, you know, the kid went out. This is what happens." Yes, I know. But again--
ZYMET: Right.
CUOMO: --there but for the grace. I got a 17-year-old at home. She just got her license. I haven't - I don't see her but two days a week. I don't know where she is. You can't keep them home. ZYMET: Be safe.
CUOMO: It's too long. It's too hard. There's so much risk for all of us. Again, there but for the grace there are families that could be in your exact same position all over this country. Thank God you're making it through. I know you got a long way to go. Send your son my best. Send your kids my best.
ZYMET: Oh, thank you so much.
CUOMO: And thank you for the example that you are being to your family about strength in the center, all right?
ZYMET: Thank you. I appreciate the help.
CUOMO: We'll put out on social media how people can help you, OK?
ZYMET: Oh, thank you so much for having me. God bless you all. Thank you so much. Be safe.
CUOMO: I look forward to talking to your husband and for him to have big full lungs.
ZYMET: Yes.
CUOMO: Take care.
ZYMET: Yes, me too. You too, thank you.
CUOMO: We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: Bam! 10:00 P.M. on the dot. CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon starts right now.
