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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump Calls Off Florida Portion Of RNC Over Safety Concerns, But Insists Schools Reopen; Trump Asking For $105 Billion For School Reopenings; Portland Mayor Tear-Gassed By Federal Officers. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired July 23, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Sanjay, I want to thank you as always. And I want to thank Bill Gates for giving us not only his time to answer our questions, but also our viewers' as well.
Thanks to those of you who wrote in with your questions. If you didn't get your question answered tonight, the conversation continues at cnn.com/coronavirusanswers.
The news continues right now with Chris Cuomo.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: How are you doing? I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
How can it not be safe enough to hold the Republican Convention in Florida, according to the President, but safe enough to open schools there?
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I looked at my team, and I said, "The timing for this event is not right. It's just not right with what's happened, recently, the flare up in Florida, to have a big Convention. It's not the right time."
I have to protect the American people. That's what I've always done. That's what I always will do.
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CUOMO: So, the timing's not right. But it is right for schools?
Look, Trump has not protected you from COVID. Fact, Trump wanted packed churches by Easter. Fact, Trump wanted to slow down testing. Fact, Trump mocked masks until just a couple of days ago.
Fact, Trump held rallies in Tulsa and Mount Rushmore where his own staff got COVID. Fact, Trump moved the Convention to Florida because North Carolina wouldn't let him jam-pack an arena. OK?
People are not being protected by Trump. They need protection from Trump, when it comes to Coronavirus.
The President notes the timing is not right for the Convention. The timing is that the pandemic is in full swing there.
And the timing coincides with a poll showing him down 13 points to Biden in his new home state, one of a new set of numbers, the likes of which we have almost never seen for a wannabe two-term President.
Trump's own State TV tonight showed Biden with wide advantages in the battleground states of Michigan, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania. The big issue? Coronavirus. Only about a third of registered voters in each State says that they trust Trump over Biden to do a better job fighting the virus.
I'm skeptical of numbers in general. But if people are keying on COVID, just what came out of Trump's mouth, after his claim to always protect them, is enough to reject him.
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TRUMP: Being at the school, being on the campus is very, very important.
Fortunately, the data shows that children are lower risk from the China virus, very substantially. But every district should be actively making preparations to open. Again, the children obviously have a very strong immune system.
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CUOMO: He cited data yesterday that doesn't exist, that children don't easily transmit this virus. And speaking of timing, just tonight, the CDC put out a set of guidelines that curiously falls in line with Trump's view, coming down hard in favor of opening.
But the question they don't deal with enough and that the President never has is how. Where is the plan? Trump's response.
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TRUMP: Our strategy to safely reopen schools mirrors our approach nationwide.
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CUOMO: What nationwide approach?
The whole problem with testing and tracing, according to just about every expert we've heard from, according to them, the main problem is a lack of a cohesive nationwide strategy. They point to it as a main reason we can't catch up to the virus.
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Florida and California, again today, announced record numbers of deaths. Daily deaths is the metric. So, what does President Protection say? Well, take out all the bad states and the rest of the states have no problem whatsoever.
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TRUMP: The country is in very good shape, other than if you look South and West.
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CUOMO: Yes, you mean the places where a lot of people live.
Look, it's not all about him. It's about what he does or what he keeps the government from doing. Schools, that's got to be the focus. You can't just say you want them to reopen. It's like saying "I want the pandemic to go away."
We have to have a plan. Why? Schools are everything. Families can't get to work or back to any kind of normal with kids at home. To get schools right, you have to do better with testing and tracing. You have to do better with resourcing. You need a plan.
Let's bring in a better mind, Dr. Ashish Jha.
Doc, thank you very much. Just to--
DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Chris, thank you.
CUOMO: --just to make sure we're playing on the same page, the idea that there is a nationwide strategy for how to open schools, and it's the same in keeping with the nationwide strategy on how to fight the pandemic, and do testing, what nationwide strategy?
JHA: Yes Chris, thanks.
So, this is the issue, all right? We don't have a national strategy. The strategy so far has been one of "Let every State figure it out on its own." And we're essentially doing the same thing with schools.
I mean there was a little bit of a threat, that we'd start threatening schools that didn't open. Now we're just saying to all the schools, "Figure it out on your own." And that's not helpful.
We do need a Federal government. A national strategy would actually be really useful at this moment.
CUOMO: Especially, as you've mentioned many times, with testing, I had the Superintendent from one of these big counties in the President's backyard that just said, "Listen, we're going to have to go pure virtual." I said "Why? What changed?" He said, "I can't get the tests back fast enough."
I hear this all the time from people everywhere, from New York to California. What is the key to getting test results faster?
JHA: Yes. So, look, we did not develop a testing infrastructure to handle the number of tests that we are doing.
We're doing about 700,000 tests a day, largely because we have massive outbreaks in large chunks of the country. It's not enough. And the system is really starting to strain. And we are starting to get seven- day, 10-day turnaround times, which are - which make those tests close to useless.
CUOMO: Why?
JHA: We need a whole different generation of tests, totally different platforms. Again, this is a place where a Federal strategy would be very helpful.
CUOMO: Are you asking kind of for the impossible like "Yes, it'd be great if we also had a pill we could all take, and the pandemic goes away." Are these things that could be done or are they asking too much?
JHA: Chris, we have the technology right now developed that if the Federal government got serious, and we ramped up these new testing technologies, they're not perfect, but if we had them widely deployed tomorrow, we could get kids back in school, across the country, probably, in some places in September, in some places by October.
Just testing alone wouldn't do it. We'd have to do a few other things as well. But we have all of that technology in-house in our nation today.
CUOMO: Why isn't it being used?
JHA: Well if we're going to leave it to markets, and these companies need to ramp up, and there's no real Federal strategy, and these companies don't know if anybody is going to pay for the tests, it's maddening, like it just requires a concerted effort on the part of the Federal government and the Federal purse. But we're not doing it.
And so, it is these tests are not coming into the market fast enough. They're getting there, but they're going way too slow, and they will not be available in time for schools this fall.
CUOMO: I want to show you a graphic here, the COVID-19 timeline, "Days it took to reach each threshold." 1 million cases, 99 days. 2 million cases, 43 days. 3 million cases, 28 days 4 million cases, 15 days.
Is this just the way it goes, or is this some type of scary sci-fi exponential growth going on?
JHA: This is the way it goes, if you don't know how to control the virus, and if you don't have a national pandemic plan that you're executing on. This is not what has happened in every other country. It's just this is what's happening here.
And what I'm worried about is, can we like how long will it take us to get to 5 million or 6 million? And I want to slow that down. But that will require really controlling the outbreaks across the Southern and Western states.
CUOMO: President says "Yes, but you take them out of the equation, we're doing great." What does that comment miss?
JHA: Well, so, first of all, I care about all Americans, including the 60 percent, 70 percent of Americans who live in the South and in the West.
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I also think it's really important to understand that it's true that, like, New York, the Tri-State Area, New England is doing well. So, that's a reminder to the rest of the country that America can do this. America can beat this thing. But again, a national strategy would be helpful.
CUOMO: Right, look, and we're doing better here. But we're doing better here not open, you know? I mean the kind of - kind of open. But we're not open.
And I think that's the missing link is that even in California - and look, to be fair to Newsom, in a way that I'm not going to be fair to some of the Red state governors, who were saying, "I don't have to do anything," Newsom did things early on.
But they obviously reopened too soon, and they were hyper-ambitious, and it changed the culture there, and there was opportunity and an erosion of culture of protection. And it looks like it's going to take them time to get back under control.
JHA: Yes, there are parts of Southern California that are looking very bad.
I think you got it right. Governor Newsom was one of the superstars who jumped on this early, saved a lot of lives. But I do think things went too long, and they were too far open in the Southern California.
And I just don't think that the Governor reacted quickly enough to shut things back down. I think he has now moved very aggressively. But it's going to take a while to bring those outbreaks under control.
CUOMO: I mean there's the old expression, "One day, you're the cock of the walk. The next day, you're a feather duster." You got to keep doing the right things against this virus, or it will
come back to haunt you, and quickly. And those in charge better know they will be weighed and measured by this. That's what we're seeing in the polls.
Dr. Ashish Jha, thank you very much. Now, speaking of polls--
JHA: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: --you just heard the President walk away from his own Convention, right? But he still wants kids to go back to school in the same place where the Convention was supposed to be in just weeks. So, the timing is wrong for the Convention, but it's right for school?
He thinks "Well but kids are more immune than the adults." Well, kids don't run the schools. What about the adults?
How are teachers in one of the biggest, hardest-hit states dealing with that possibility? "Don't worry. The kids will get better soon." What about them? What about these brand-new CDC guidelines that seem to suggest the same?
Also, later on, talking about poll numbers, only a snapshot, OK, in just a moment in time. But we have never seen this bad a picture for a President who wants a second term. Well maybe once, maybe once.
Can Trump overcome the odds? We have The Wizard of Odds ahead.
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CUOMO: $105 billion, that's what the White House is asking Congress to provide to help schools reopen. It's good. They're going to need money. How do they use it? Well, that's the plan. And that we don't know yet.
The President today doubling down on the idea that students need to return to class more than ever, but not a word about how you get it done, especially after being home for so long, especially with all the problems with testing and tracing in communities that makes the time between when you test and when you get a result dangerously long.
The students, of course, would be going back to school with who? Teachers, staff, right? Many of whom are reluctant to return to campuses without a plan in hand to battle the virus that protects them and allows them to protect the kids.
Texas reported over 9,500 new COVID cases today. Florida is on fire.
Joining us now, two members of the Association of Texas Professional Educators. The group represents over 100,000 educators statewide. Karen Hames is the VP. She's also an eighth grade teacher. Jennifer Mitchell handles Governmental Relations.
Thank you very much for joining us on PRIME TIME.
KAREN HAMES, EIGHTH GRADE TEACHER, ASSOCIATION OF TEXAS PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS: Thank you, Sir.
JENNIFER MITCHELL, ASSOCIATION OF TEXAS PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS: Thank you very much.
CUOMO: So Karen, don't worry. You heard the President. "Kids are tough, resilient. Most of them won't get sick. And if they do, they'll get better soon. Let's get back to school." Why isn't that good enough?
HAMES: Well, because when they get sick, their teachers are going to get sick.
Teachers are very hands-on people. We care about our students. We have to be close in proximity with them when we're teaching them, so that we can construct - we can teach them better in one-on-one. And so, when they're ill, we're going to get ill.
And we're not being given any guidance as to how to, if we get ill, how is that going to be covered by our insurance.
CUOMO: Jennifer, the CDC put out guidelines, tonight, that basically echoes the President's sentiment that kids are more resilient than the rest of us. And there are some other general guidelines in there about what kind of resourcing you need to do this the safe way.
Does that add to your comfort?
MITCHELL: Not as much as we'd like.
I think the jury is still out medically on what the impact of the virus will be for kids. But the fact is, as Karen pointed out, we have staff who have to be on campus as soon as the school year starts. And, here in Texas, we're talking about days, not weeks.
So, I really think on the question of when to open schools, the horse might be out of the barn on that one, and we need to turn our attention to the contingency plans for what we're going to do, when there are positive COVID-19 cases on the campus.
CUOMO: Well everybody's always said it's a trick question to say can you open schools. The answer is yes, of course, you can. That's easy. Can you keep them open? Now, in terms of why you'll have to try, Karen, listen to the President, just tonight.
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TRUMP: If schools do not reopen, the funding should go to parents to send their child to public, private, charter, religious, or homeschool of their choice, the key word being "Choice." If the school is closed, the money should follow the student, so the parents and families are in control of their own decisions.
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CUOMO: Now, there's a conflation going on, right? School choice is a very tasty topic. We don't have time for that tonight.
But what I'm hearing there, Karen is "You open or I'll take the money from your school, and I will give it to the school that will take the kids." What will that mean in Texas?
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HAMES: Well, the problem with that is they're going to have the same issues that we are.
Charter schools generally do not follow the same rules that public schools do. They do not have to accept all students. They are not - they do not have to do the same testing that we do.
So, it's very important that it's understood that while charter schools may be able to provide some kind of a buffer in those cases, they will not have any better results than public schools will at all.
CUOMO: Jennifer, let's end on this.
Austin, Texas, you're in, there are families all over Austin, Texas, saying, "Look, I got to get my kid out of the house. I got to get them back to school. They're falling behind. It doesn't work having them at home. I got to get back to work. I'm going to have to work part-time if they're here. I can't afford the childcare. They have to go back to school."
What do you say?
MITCHELL: We want kids back in school too. Teachers want to be back in school. They miss seeing those kids. And we know that remote learning is a poor substitute for in-person instruction. So, we're with them on that.
But we need assurances that we'll be safe. We need our schools, our more than 1,000 school districts, around Texas, they need guidance on what to do when students or adults show up symptomatic on the campus.
They're going to need additional resources that we don't have right now to purchase more PPE, to make modifications to their facilities, so as to allow for the proper distancing. They're going to have to add bus routes to keep passenger loads
limited, so many things that are going to take additional resources that our schools haven't been given as well as guidance. It shouldn't be left up to them each to decide, on their own, how to make this work.
CUOMO: The need for guidance is so obvious.
Even the - even the point of the lack of ideas like "Hey, you need more space." Everybody says that. "We need square footage." Well what about the public spaces that are going unused? What about the libraries? What about the museums? What about renting those?
What about enlisting other staff and coming up with accommodations for younger teachers to watch and senior teachers teach? I'm not even hearing any of the ideas. And time is running short.
Karen Hames, Jennifer Mitchell, thank you very much, both, for joining us tonight. Good luck going forward. We will stay on the story.
HAMES: Thank you.
MITCHELL: Thanks.
CUOMO: All right. Another big story, Portland's Mayor, he wanted to see for himself what was happening between protesters and the Federal forces deployed to his City. Now, in truth, he wanted to speak out that what was going on with the Federal forces is wrong, OK?
Now, he learned the reality all too well.
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(VIDEO - PORTLAND MAYOR, TED WHEELER, GETTING TEAR-GASSED BY FEDERAL OFFICERS)
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CUOMO: This is the Mayor getting tear-gassed by those Federal officers. We're not suggesting, and the Mayor isn't suggesting, they tear-gassed him on purpose. But he was there in the crowd and he got it.
Now he is with us tonight. What did he learn? Why did he go there? What does he think is happening in his City and may be repeated all across this country? It is a very important conversation, and we will have it next.
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CUOMO: Here's the latest. Federal forces are now heading to Seattle, the mission, same as Portland.
This comes as the Justice Department's Independent Watchdog is launching an investigation. Homeland Security's Inspector General is also probing his agency's role in grabbing people off the streets.
Meanwhile, the violence continues in Portland. Last night, the Mayor got an earful from some protesters, before he got an eyeful when the Feds opened up with the teargas.
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(VIDEO - PORTLAND MAYOR, TED WHEELER, GETTING TEAR-GASSED BY FEDERAL OFFICERS)
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CUOMO: I've been where he was, scary place to be.
Mayor Ted Wheeler is not the only Mayor - is not only the Mayor of Portland. He's also the Police Commissioner. And we welcome him to PRIME TIME.
Mr. Mayor/Commissioner, it's good to see you.
MAYOR TED WHEELER, (D) PORTLAND, OREGON: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, now this is not about you and what was done to you, specifically. You're OK, thank God. But you took to the streets for a reason. What is your big concern?
WHEELER: My big concern is that we have a Federal occupation. We have Federal troops coming to our City. They weren't invited here. We didn't ask them to come. We don't want them here. They're not trained for the purpose that they are here.
And I was hearing from my constituents, and I'm talking about people who are doctors, people who are lawyers, restaurateurs, moms, teachers, and they were relating to me stories about Orwellian and, certainly, unconstitutional tactics being used by these Federal officers.
So, I wanted to see it for myself. I went down there and I got tear- gassed in my own City.
CUOMO: Here are the big points of pushback.
One, "It's just about the courthouses." Two, "You're a terrible Democrat and you are the reason that things are bad." And three, "You are pro-mob, pro-rioter over the police."
How do you take on those points of counter?
WHEELER: That is not welcome rhetoric here in the City of Portland.
In fact, here's one of our more conservative local papers. And what it says is what I believe. "We are under siege. We believe the Federal presence here is escalating an already tense situation."
And I believe we need to raise this. We need to elevate it for Americans, since this is now happening in other cities, and call this out for what it is.
The President is using these Federal forces as his own Personal Militia, I believe, for the purpose of political grandstanding.
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He's doing this. He's creating the chaos in Democratically-controlled cities. So ironically, he can point to the chaos, and then say, "Look, those Democratically-controlled cities are in chaos and I, and only I, can stop the chaos."
I think this is abhorrent and it's a clear political stunt. And ultimately, what I'm worried about, and what others in my community are worried about, is that non-violent Americans are going to be killed for doing nothing other than standing up for American democratic principles. This is a serious issue.
CUOMO: So, one more on the national scope of this, and then we'll go back to what's happening in Portland.
The President says, "Listen, if you could control your City, if homicides weren't blowing up all over this country, especially in Democrat-run cities, I wouldn't have to do this. But you can't get it under control, so you need me.
And they were destroying a Courthouse. So, we had to go there, under Federal law, to protect the structure. And obviously, you need the help. And if you're too political to ask for it, I'm going to do it anyway because I can."
WHEELER: Well, that's just a salacious argument, and it's not true.
The fact of the matter is before the Feds arrived, the situation was contained. The nightly violence had dissipated. We were seeing smaller crowds. The energy had gone out of those crowds.
And then, when they showed up, the entire thing blew up. They kicked the hornet's nest.
And I saw firsthand, last night, the indiscriminate use of teargas and other munitions. And it had no effect, except really angering people, and frustrating people, and now they're outraged.
And so, this chaos, this unrest that we are now seeing, on the streets of Portland, the thousands of people that are now coming out to demonstrate, this was created directly by the Trump Administration's heavy-handed, unwarranted, and unconstitutional tactics in our City.
CUOMO: Now, you were getting some noise last night from your own locals, in part, because you're in power, but in part because they're pissed off about the Portland Police.
And you talk about anecdotes on the ground. They're saying, last week, Portland police officers were out with the Feds, and they've had access to the Portland Police command post, and that your police are using too much teargas as well.
Your response?
WHEELER: First of all, we kicked them out of the command post.
Second of all, our City Council unanimously, yesterday, voted on a measure that precludes any collaboration, whatsoever, with these Federal troops that are in our City. We've made a clear break. And we are standing firmly on the side of our non-violent demonstrators.
This is something that's brought the City of Portland together, in a way I've never seen Portlanders come together. And we're saying with one unified voice that the Federal presence here is unwarranted, it's un-American, it's unconstitutional, and we are demanding they leave.
And now, we're seeing this in other cities. And what all the other cities have in common is, surprise, they are all led by Democratic mayors. And that should be a concern to people.
When the President of the United States uses force, and he uses it selectively, based on the political affiliation, of the people who are the elected leaders in those cities, that is a direct threat to democracy, and we need to call it out for what it is.
It's dangerous. It's unwarranted. It's cynical. And it's the cheapest of all political stunts. And we cannot allow this to continue because it might lead to somebody actually being killed, and none of us should want that.
CUOMO: Mayor, how do you get them to leave? Is there any indication that they will? My understanding is that you haven't met with them. So, you're saying it here. How do you make it happen there?
WHEELER: I think the way we make it happen is we're bringing all of the powers that be together in our community, from our United States Senators, to our Congressional delegation, to our Governor, to our local elected leaders, community leaders, artists, musicians.
The Wall of Moms is there, called the Wall of Dads, we even have kids out there on the street. And all of us are saying, to our Federal government, "Stop terrorizing us. Stop putting us in danger. Stop destroying our community."
And when we start to see this spread to other communities, around the country, as we are, and we elevate this issue, and Americans all over the country say, "We have had enough," I believe the Federal government will be forced to back down.
CUOMO: Mayor Ted Wheeler, I appreciate you, especially after such a trying event, coming on, and making the case on PRIME TIME. Thank you. Good luck going forward. We'll stay on the story.
WHEELER: Thank you.
CUOMO: Be well.
All right, so California, look, again, it's not a Red/Blue thing for me. Early on, Newsom, and his team, Garcetti in Los Angeles, they were on the ball. They were being aggressive as one of the first hit hard by COVID.
Then what happened? They softened up, and things went bad, and it is taking time to get control of the situation. And it looks like it's going to take a long time.
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The Nursing Director in one hospital is seeing a relentless stream of patients. What does she believe changed? And what does she believe is needed for her people and for the people coming in? Next.
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CUOMO: California just hit its highest single-day total of COVID deaths, 157 more lives, and so many families and loved ones touched just in one day. The total death toll in the State now more than 8,000. The question is why, and what will turn it around.
Catherine Davis is the Nursing Director at Eisenhower Health, in Rancho Mirage.
Cathy, thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate the message of the mask. It is important that people see that. If they care about people like you, they should care about how they practice their own safety.
ICU beds in Riverside County are now gone for more than a week. What's it like at your hospital.
[21:40:00] CATHERINE DAVIS, NURSING DIRECTOR, EISENHOWER HEALTH: It's busy. There is - there are more patients than we've ever seen. We've treated 800 patients over the last 14 weeks on my Unit alone on 4 East. And we've had 43 deaths.
We've had 750 victories, so that many people have been able to go home, and to quarantine at home, and to continue their recovery there.
CUOMO: I like that you keep track of the victories, by the way.
We were doing that very scrupulously, early on, to give people hope that we can beat-back some of these cases. But that's not the situation we want to be in, which is, where you're having to save the lives in the hospital.
Why now? What changed from when you guys seemed to have it under control?
DAVIS: I listened to the patients, and their story, and where they think that they came down with COVID. And it does seem like people are not heeding the advice of wearing a mask and washing their hands, social distancing.
They are going to parties. They are interacting with family gatherings. Some family gatherings have been lethal, 25 people at a family gathering, and 23 with COVID, six days later. Those are the things (ph).
CUOMO: What about the mask mandate in late April? Riverside County, the cases started coming down. They removed the mandate. Do you think that was relevant? And do you think there's a cautionary message in that about keeping the mask mandate now?
DAVIS: I do. I think it's really important. I think that people think that the mask is there to protect others from whoever is wearing it. But the mask is a protection for the person wearing it also.
And it's really important. You don't know what you're coming into contact with, at the grocery store, at the gas station, in church, anywhere.
CUOMO: In terms of your treatment protocols, what you were able to do, what you're seeing, what you have to deal with, what's changed, what can you tell us?
DAVIS: We have been utilizing convalescent plasma, which carries antibodies from individuals that have been able to beat COVID, and it has shown some really promising effectiveness.
Remdesivir, that is also helping. That is an antiviral medication.
There's things that we're learning about proning, which means turning over onto your stomach and trying to stay in that position. It does help you get more oxygen when you are really, really hypoxic, which mean--
CUOMO: Right, because most of the lung tissue is in your back.
DAVIS: Yes.
CUOMO: We always think it's here in the front of your chest. Do you - are you facing new challenges in terms of what the virus is doing to people?
DAVIS: We are. And we've been doing this for 14 weeks. We're tired. It's challenging. We're trying to stay upbeat.
We're trying to provide the best care that we can for our patients. But we're also trying to protect ourselves and to protect each other. There's some great teamwork going on, and that is helping us get through this.
The community has been super supportive, lots and lots of good wishes from them. We've tried to stay really transparent, as a hospital, and as an organization so that we can educate people. And they're responsive to that. They really do appreciate it.
CUOMO: Well, we appreciate you. That's why I'm talking to you. That's why I will continue talking.
And let me give an advance on the people who are going to say, "Oh, that Catherine, that Cathy was great. How do we help?" Put on the damn mask. If you're in California, if you're in Riverside, wear the mask. If you want to avoid situations like this, where you live, wear the mask.
Cathy, God bless going forward and thank you for what you're doing and your team.
DAVIS: Thank you, Chris. And thank you for having me.
CUOMO: All right, God bless. Stay healthy.
All right, now, COVID has taken over the country, it's taken over our politics, OK? Now, I don't think we're seeing enough action, even from Congress. I think they should be outraged, and they're not, or at least, I'm not hearing it. Are you?
But we're seeing it in the polls now. Swing states that were key to the President's victory in 2016 now swinging toward Biden, bigly.
Now, what do these numbers mean? I'm skeptical of the numbers. Have we ever seen them like this before at this point? Maybe once. What does Trump have to do to win if these numbers are even close?
The Wizard of Odds has been crunching the scenarios and the context for us. We've got him, next.
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CUOMO: You hear about the latest poll numbers in big states, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Florida? Never seen them like this, and seen a President get a second term, except maybe once.
The Wizard of Odds, Harry Enten, is here.
Now look, I'm a seller of poll numbers, especially this far out, in such a fluid situation. But, but, at this stage in the game, when has a first-term President had numbers like this and won?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: The one example, Christopher, was back in 1948, Harry Truman against Thomas E. Dewey. Truman was down double-digits to Dewey, at this point. It's really the only example that I have, going back, where there's anything like this.
If you think about Carter in '80, he lost. He was down double-digits at this point. Bush in '92 was down double-digits.
The only example really is Truman in '48, who of course shocked the world when he beat the polls, which of course, is what Trump wants to do, if he wants to get a second term.
CUOMO: Right. Everybody remembers that for Truman holding up the picture of "The Chicago Tribune" getting it wrong and saying Dewey had won.
What can you point to that might make Trump like Truman in this?
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ENTEN: I mean, look, at the end of the day, the only thing that will make Trump like Truman is if he gets a better handle of the Coronavirus.
I mean, look at these numbers from Florida, right? "Do you approve or disapprove of the job that Trump is doing on the Coronavirus?"
And you compare the April numbers to now. And what you essentially see is that his approval rating was at 46 percent, back in April. It's dropped to 37 percent now. And, at the same time, Biden's lead in Florida has expanded from 4 points up to 13 points.
So, if Truman - I'm sorry, if Trump wants to win a second term, he's got to get a better handle on the Coronavirus in the minds of voters.
CUOMO: Truman didn't have a pandemic going in the wrong direction on his watch. Fair point!
The idea of approve/disapprove, you showed it in Florida. We also saw in Pennsylvania and Minnesota. What would Trump have to do, if these numbers are even close, what would he have to do to overcome them and win anyway?
ENTEN: Yes, I think the biggest thing he might have to do is actually start winning suburbanites or at least get close with them.
I mean, for goodness gracious, look at these numbers that we're seeing with suburbanites. We're seeing Biden, right now, leading by 14 points, 15 points, 16 points among suburbanites. Compare that to this point, back in 2016, what was going on, it was just a one-point race between Clinton and Trump.
So, the fact is if he wants to go in and win, he wants to win suburbanites, and that might be why he's talking about suburban housewives in his recent tweet, although to be perfectly honest, they're just a small portion of the suburban vote.
CUOMO: And, so look, so he has to be aware.
Do you think that this has something to do with why he's cancelling the Convention? Or do you think it's just being pandemic aware now, and that this looks terrible, for you to be in Florida, holding a Convention, when the place is on fire?
ENTEN: I mean, if you look at the polling, he's absolutely aware. I mean, they essentially asked in the Quinnipiac poll whether or not you should - it's safe to hold a Convention, and what you saw was overwhelmingly voters said it was unsafe.
He has taken all these actions with the Coronavirus that voters, simply put, do not like. And what we've seen, as that's been occurring, is the numbers have been moving away from the President, moving towards Biden. And that might be why we're seeing that change in direction from the President. We'll see how long he can actually keep it up.
CUOMO: Boy, it's so interesting because his theory of the case is "Pretend the pandemic isn't real." Now, he's shifting on that now, very late in the game.
I still maintain that if he can take some ownership of this, and the numbers start to come down, people have short memories, and he'll start to claim a reason of success about why it's coming back.
But the strategy of "If I say it's not real, it will go away," seems to have really backfired.
ENTEN: It's absolutely backfired. I mean, again, just on that suburbanite thing, I just think this is so important because they tend to be the swing voters in the election.
What we see is, is that suburban voters overwhelmingly trust Biden on the pandemic, to handle the pandemic. He needs to be taken much more seriously on the pandemic. You can see it right now on your screen, Biden, 53 percent, Trump 38 percent, on who's trusted on the pandemic among suburbanites.
He needs to be trusted more on the Coronavirus. If he can't turn his numbers around, on the Coronavirus, Chris, he is going to lose. That much, I am certain of.
CUOMO: So Harry's theory is that because the pandemic has become such an overwhelming issue, it's what's creating the state of play in these big states.
Take a look at these big three in the latest numbers out. There really is the headline of this. Minnesota, Michigan, Pennsylvania, all right? 51/38, 49/40, 50/39. Biden was not playing that way in any of those places just a few months ago. Not to this degree anyway.
So, do you think this race now, barring, I don't know what else could happen, honestly. I don't know what kind of God forbid would have to happen to trump, no pun intended, the pandemic.
But you think this election is won or lost on people's perceptions of the pandemic?
ENTEN: Absolutely. You go back through history, and you look at the big elections, where there was a big non-economic issue that was at play, whether it be the Korean War in '52, whether it be the Vietnam War in '68, whether it be the Iranian Hostage Crisis in '80, the candidate who won on the big non-economic issue of the day won the election.
And, right now, Joe Biden is winning on the Coronavirus, and that is why he is leading in the polls.
CUOMO: I'm telling you, this school thing is going to be everything, and not just, for the suburbs especially, because everybody cares about their kids. But it is so disruptive to your life, your ability to earn money, to work, to balance life and work, to think your kids are going to get advantaged.
And the idea of just "Open, open," but there's no plan, and it could be unsafe, that is really tough for people to deal with. Believe me. I'm hearing it everywhere all across the country.
Harry Enten, thank you for crunching the numbers and giving us some context. You look great. We'll be right back.
ENTEN: Thank you, Sir.
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CUOMO: Well, baseball's back with the flick of the wrist of a key player in the fight to get our country back. Did you see this?
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(VIDEO - DR. ANTHONY FAUCI THROWS FIRST PITCH AHEAD OF NATIONALS VS. YANKEES 2020 MLB SEASON OPENING)
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CUOMO: Tee-ball.
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(VIDEO - DR. ANTHONY FAUCI THROWS FIRST PITCH AHEAD OF NATIONALS VS. YANKEES 2020 MLB SEASON OPENING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Anthony Fauci!
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CUOMO: Listen, Fauci trying to flatten the curve there. He needed to straighten out the curve a little bit more with that ceremonial first pitch at tonight's Nats-Yankees game. Our nation's top Infectious Disease expert was a one-time high school shortstop. His aim on this pandemic has been straight-on, however.
The return of America's favorite pastime is a reminder, OK. We got to be on the same team in order to knock out this virus, in order to knock it out of the park to be sure, OK?
It's not going to disappear no more than any opponent does. You got to beat them. And we can control it, but we have to be willing to play ball. Yes, we're using baseball metaphors tonight. I think it works.
What does that mean? What does that mean? Wear a mask. You just have to.
Look, if your community doesn't have case spread, I'm not talking to you. But there are too few of those these days. All right. So, we got to get together, we got to play ball, wear a mask and demand more from those in power. We need to have a plan.
It's time for CNN Tonight with the man, D. Lemon. I'm not laughing at Tony Fauci.
