Return to Transcripts main page


Trump Pushes Unconstitutional Suggestion to Delay Election. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 30, 2020 - 21:00   ET



DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Have it that people around them don't have it. And we're nowhere close to that yet.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, I mean waiting for 10 days, so many have said it, it seems to be meaningless. Sanjay as always, thank you. I hope to see you next week. The news continues next with Chris Cuomo.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right, thank you Anderson. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to Primetime.

Listen, here's the headline. The second quarter was the worst quarter in terms of GDP action in America's history. We were down almost 33 percent. OK. And of course, the reason is COVID, but it's how this President mishandled COVID. What's the proof? Well, lots of countries are dealing with COVID, right? Why are we down almost a third of our GDP growth and yet Germany was down 10 percent?

China, remember, we're going to get on top of China. Only I can fix it. They were up 3 percent. Why? What happened to this being the best economy in the world? So, pay no mind to the President's delay the election flash bangs to disorient you. He knows that his mishandling of this pandemic, his mishandling of the economy as a result has him losing this election right now.

Now look, we almost have 100 days until the election. I know people start voting in October, but really in earnest November 3rd. Anything can happen. Things can get better with the pandemic, better with the economy. It could inure to Trump's benefit. Anything could happen. But right now, it is no coincidence that his unconstitutional, unethical, and almost impossible suggestion to move the election coincides with our economy's worst drop ever, ever. OK.

32.9 percent. I know he didn't address it. He doesn't give you bad news. That's our job to give you the truth so that you can use it in your processing. I will not let him distract you on our watch. Between April and June, we lost almost a third. Germany lost just 10. China is up. Why aren't we the best? He's going to have to answer to you for that.

Now remember, he told you this the other week.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not a good listener. I don't like to lose.


CUOMO: Of course, he doesn't like to lose. What is he willing to do to avoid taking a loss? He gave you the answer tonight.


TRUMP: I don't want to delay. I want to have the election, but I also don't want to have to wait for three months and then find out that the ballots are all missing and the election doesn't mean anything. That's what's going to happen. Do I want to see a date change? No. But I don't want to see a crooked election.


CUOMO: How does he know that's what's going to happen. He's lying to you, just like he did with his 2 million fraudulent votes to explain why he got whooped in the popular vote by Hillary Clinton. He's lying to you. But see, this is America. This is a republic. It is not a banana republic. We are bigger than any one piece, even the President.

So, while Trump may be saying things that are bananas, he's still in an actual republic, not a banana republic. There's a difference. We have a constitution. We are about laws. Now remember, now he's pulling back. This is what he does. He says something completely bananas and then tries to back away and let the provocation fill the space and the media loves it. They run, run, run, run, run. They forget about the economic numbers and they play his game. Not here.

Be clear, what he's suggesting is something without any basis in fact, there is no proof that mail in voting is rife with fraud. States are considering it because they're screwed because of the pandemic, they're trying to find ways to get us to be able to exercise the franchise because of the pandemic that he is mishandling.

So, he is making up the idea that the election will be rigged just like the 2 million fake votes, he lied to you because he can't rig the truth. He is losing in the polls right now because he has mishandled the pandemic and the economy has suffered as a result. The net effect of all of this that he is doing to try to create doubt about the strength of our democracy is just to create doubt if he loses.


TRUMP: It's had an interesting impact. I don't know it's going to be the impact it had. What people are now looking at is, am I right.


CUOMO: Oh, nobody is looking at if you're right. You know exactly what impact you wanted it to have. That's.


Why you said it. You said it to try to hurt confidence in the democratic process. He doesn't even deny it. That's why it's so obvious, it's so ugly that President Obama actually used it as the context for what it was that John Lewis at his funeral to memorialize this warrior of democracy, what he was against. Listen.


BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are those in power who are doing their darndest to discourage people from voting. That's going to be dependent on mail in ballots, so people don't get sick. There's an attack on what John fought for. It was an attack on our democratic freedoms. And we should treat it as such.


CUOMO: No wonder Trump didn't attend. Sure, he should be there, he represents all of us. We're burying a hero, but it's just about him. That's all it is. If you don't get that, you're not paying attention. But why would he go? He doesn't believe in anything that John Lewis stood for. But here's the good news. Well, look, good news, bad news, it's the truth.

A President has zero power to delay this election. It can happen. It has to happen through Congress. And it's certainly not possible just to help your own political survival under the cover of our survival. Suddenly, he cares about the pandemic. Think about the logic or the illogic he's trying to get you to swallow here.

It's OK for you to reopen the economy, to go out into public, to expose yourself while the cases are going crazy of Coronavirus. It's OK for you to expose your kids in areas where people don't believe they'll be safe in school. They should go anyway. In fact, he will lie to you about kids. They don't transmit the disease. He knows the research says that over the age of 10, they transfer just the way anyone would. You or me. He knows it. He says it anyway.

Lie, defy, deny. Those are the main prongs of the division handbook, and that's what he is, conquer and divide. So, all that's OK in the heat of a pandemic. But suddenly, suddenly, he's concerned that one day, November 3rd may not be safe, almost 100 days from now. It's OK to go out during the worst point of the pandemic with no mask and expose your kids too. Come to a rally for me. But maybe on Election Day, maybe we should think ahead, really, all of the sudden the pandemic matters, because it matters to him.

My brothers and sisters vote for him or against but see him for what he is. He is about himself and his interest, not yours. He wants to move an Election Day, but he doesn't want to fix schools. He wants to move an Election Day, but he doesn't want to deal with you wearing a mask. He wants to move an Election Day, but he won't help you with testing.

Now, look, we've held elections in world wars and past pandemics like the Spanish flu. Even Mitch McConnell said the date is set in stone. I know it's Patsy Pompeo said, well, the DOJ could move it. Yes, ask him for an example. Him saying that is way out of his depth. OK, I know his tried and true loyalists, they're bubbling. They're not going to back him on this.

The Constitution is clear, the law is clear, it's asinine. Why does Trump think he can do whatever he wants? Because he is a splendid marriage of ignorance and arrogance. It's all about the me and zero about the we.

The virus is rapidly swallowing us, all colors, all stripes, all creeds. It just took a former presidential candidate, Herman Cain. Yes, he supported the President. The President says he was a good friend of his. We wish his family well and we wish that he rests in peace and I wish that this President have no peace until he thinks about what he's exposing people to. He didn't even mention that Mr. Cain was at his rally among the masses right before he was diagnosed.

Now, maybe he didn't get it there. Sure, as hell didn't help. May Herman Cain rest in peace. He fell ill not long after that rally in June, the one in Tulsa, Oklahoma. You see him not wearing a mask. How many lives do we have to lose, how many have to be sick, how many have to have their lives changed?


How many businesses have to close? How many kids have to go underserved and fall behind? How much more inequality and inequity must there be for something that is within our control? When will you say enough? When will you demand action? This is not about our democracy being in doubt. This is about the strength of our leadership absolutely being in doubt.

Let's bring in New York Times Columnist Tom Friedman, the author of the bestselling book. Thank you for being late. Always good to see you on prime time, Brother Friedman.

TOM FRIEDMAN, COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Chris, good to be with you.

CUOMO: I hope everybody is well in your house and how big a nail in the potential political coffin for this President are these economic numbers and why?

FRIEDMAN: Well, Chris, I think you framed the big picture, which is that we don't have a plan for reviving the economy. We don't have a plan for defeating the Coronavirus. We don't have a plan for getting kids back to school. And we don't have a plan to hold a free and fair election. And so, we're really drifting right now. That's the real problem. There's enormous dynamism in the economy, but it's about the virus, stupid. That is to say, you can hector schools to open in the fall. But parents, Chris, are not going to send their kids to school if they think they are teachers are going to get sick and be infected by this virus.

You can hector people to get the economy going, but people are not going to go back to work, open restaurants, go to restaurants in large numbers if they think they're going to get sick. Everything depends on crushing the virus. And the countries that you named Chris that are doing better, Germany and China, they didn't just flatten the curve. They crushed the curve. They crushed it so much that they got the numbers down so low that they could trace, track, and quarantine the few. The relatively few cases that were still out in their societies. We have completely failed to do that. And that's why we're in the pickle that we're in.

CUOMO: You know, instead of talking about the fact that Herman Cain was at his rally, he said that he was killed by the China virus. Remember when the President and Mike Pompeo said they had proof that China had manufactured it? How come they never came out with that proof?

FRIEDMAN: Well, obviously, if they have the proof, they would have come out with it. No one, I think knows exactly where this virus emerged, whether it did escape from some kind of lab, did it happen in a wet market in China? But this has not been a - they've not approached any of this in a serious way and this is of a piece of that.

CUOMO: In terms of - here's the problem. You know, there's always a little bit of something that the president can anchor any of his wild speculation to. He says, I just want to make sure that we know the results of the election on election night. We never know the results of an election on election night. We often project, we often project, sometimes we don't. I think, what, 2000, 2004, we didn't project that night. We had to wait other years as well.

But generally, we project that night. But you don't know until you go through the whole electoral process. So, there's no way that you have all the results on election night, right? That's the clever part. Now, the silly part is him suggesting he could move the date. What's the reality there?

FRIEDMAN: Well, first of all, Congress sets the dates of our elections, as Mitch McConnell said. So, he has no power to do that whatsoever. Chris, we should ask ourselves a very simple question. What would a real President do, facing a pandemic on the eve of an election? He would call together the leaders of both parties. He would call together the best electoral experts in the country and call together 50 governors and say, I want a plan for a free and fair election on my desk by October 1st.

In other words, he would address the problem. Trump behaves like a troll who comes out from under the bridge, tweet something at us and then retreats under the bridge as if he has no ability to actually shape the outcome here. And that's why - that's where you see the utter failure of leadership. That's what a serious president would do. By the way, Chris, if he's so worried about the election in November, why don't we move it up to October 1st?

CUOMO: Yes. Why do you ask Congress to do that? I mean, look, I think--

FRIEDMAN: I mean if he's so worried about the fall, as I say, September 1st, I mean, he's worried, right? Well, let's just move it up. CUOMO: That's right. No coincidence, he wants to move it back. Right.

He wants to buy himself time. But look, it's not serious because he has no problem with exposing people and their children to the virus during the worst time. But he has a concern, 96 days out doesn't make any sense except for his own interests.

FRIEDMAN: Chris, I admire the fact that, you come out every night and you point out all of these contradictions.


But it really comes down to the point now where there's almost nothing left to say about this man, what he's done. We've run out of words. There's only one thing actually to say. Vote for Joe Biden, drive someone to the polls to vote for Joe Biden, raise money for Joe Biden, canvas for Joe Biden. Because, Chris, this is about power. Donald Trump is not going to change. The Republican Party is not going to change. The only hope for the country is that we get a change in leadership and administration that may not be sufficient to fix everything, but it is damn well necessary.

CUOMO: And I want all these people who are reaching out to me about hydroxychloroquine, like I wouldn't have taken it if I could think of one reason that it was going to be good when all the doctors were telling me to watch out, I didn't have the right symptoms. I didn't have the pneumonia; I didn't have the inflammation. Like I wouldn't have taken it. I would have taken anything.

But notice today, he didn't even mention hydroxychloroquine when he was talking about the different tools were amassing to fight this. He talked about Remdesivir and another drug. He didn't even mention it. When will people figure out that just because he's selling does not mean he's buying his own BS? He didn't even mention it today. Tom Friedman go ahead. Last word to you, sir.

FRIEDMAN: No, you just have to hope that people understand that when you're up against Mother Nature, Chris, she's just asking you three things. Are you humble? You respect my virus. Two, are you coordinated in your response? And three, is your response built on chemistry, biology, and physics, not ideology, politics, and an election schedule. If it's the former, you have a chance. If it's the latter, she will hurt you or someone you love.

CUOMO: Tom Friedman, I am not surprised to hear that you have dialogues with Mother Nature. I just hope you haven't been messing around with any aliens.

FRIEDMAN: Not at all.

CUOMO: Because if you had, you get the demon seed and then we've got a problem. Thank you very much for giving us the truth, my brother. Stay healthy.

FRIEDMAN: Always. Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Look, we got enough on our hands with this pandemic. I know that he was going to say something about the election. I knew this was going to happen. But it's all about how you decide to respond, stay focused on what we need to fight. That is real. A key model trusted by the White House has just upped its projection to more than 230,000 COVID deaths by November. Why? We have no plan. We can't go it alone here. We need a plan. And that means we need the truth. A top medical mind for some short cuts, next.



CUOMO: So, Dr. Fauci says, hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment for COVID-19. Why? Well, because that's what the FDA says. In fact, that's what most of the studies that are out say. By the way, we could use better testing on that drug. Why isn't the President making that happen? In fact, for all of you who are saying, hey, I think the drug's real, I believe the doctor who tells us about alien sex, demon seed. Why didn't the President mention hydroxychloroquine today, among other drugs, when he was describing tools to fight the virus?

Why didn't he even mention hydroxychloroquine if he believes it's so powerful? Do you get that just because he's selling it to you does not mean he buys it himself? Let's get some perspective from former Obamacare Administrator Andy Slavitt. Good to see you on Primetime, as always.

I mean, look. Science aside, true or false, if the President believes that this pill is worth taking, he bought a lot of it with our money, he could definitely look at experts like the job that you had and say, start looking now with as many different patients as you can, start offering it now, start talking about it now. He could do all those things. He has done none. Why?

ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMIN, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE & MEDICAID SERVICES: We used to live in a world where we would - people would come from town to town and tell us what drug they liked and we didn't know who to listen to. Today, we have things called studies and we have - and these studies are conducted by the world's best researchers, the world experts, as you point out.

And, for better or worse, we have a system. It's called the FDA. They're not perfect. We can get down on them if they don't approve something fast enough or if they approve something they shouldn't approve. In the case of a hydroxychloroquine. They didn't - they leaned in. They approved it without evidence. They did what the President wanted. They buckled to his pressure, which they probably shouldn't have done.

But when they got evidence that it was doing harm and that it wasn't actually effective, they pulled it back. Now, maybe someone will come and present the evidence later, which says it works on this small group of populations. And maybe some of these doctors are right. That would be terrific. But I think we all ought to realize that we should be listening to the FDA. Not me, not you, not the President, not the President's daughter-in-law, but the FDA, because that's what they're hired to do.

CUOMO: I was listening to Admiral Giroir. He's supposedly in-charge of testing and he said something interesting. He said, we're really trying to ramp up how fast people can get the response, the result of different tests. But it's hard for us because the need is so great. That doesn't make any sense to me. Why is the need slowing down your ability to push American manufacturers and chemists in different places to buy reagent and access and procure what they need to have more people processing tests?

SLAVITT: Exactly right. There's two problems. One is that they didn't act quickly enough, they didn't act quickly enough in February and March and then in April and May, when cases started growing and they started - and people were staying home, they should have been using that time to build up more cases, more tests.

Now, in the meantime, demand far outstripped whatever supply we grew. And so, we're growing cases.


So quickly, we're adding a thousand in other parts of the world or a hundred or 10, and we're adding 50,000, or 60,000 here and it becomes impossible.

And so, then we expect schools to open with no visibility on who's got this, who's spreading it. And we can't find out for seven to 10 days if you wanted schools to open in August and September. He should have been working in April and May.

CUOMO: So, the new study they're looking at that expands how many people are going to die. What do you take from that study about what it means about what needs to be done?

SLAVITT: Well, look, I think the White House is always just comes across to me, at least Chris is too accepting when these numbers come out. As you said very eloquently, we've lost this battle so far.

The Europeans, the Asians, I don't think I ever would have expected we would be that far behind them. I think if you had told me in February and March that things will be bad, I would have thought they would have been bad everywhere. But the fact that they're much better other places, we lost a third of our economy, 150,000 people and just plan to lose more is because we're not willing to take the action to make this important. I ran the crisis response for the government before. And if you're going to run a crisis response, you've got to make one thing most important.

And if you make human lives most important, then you would do things far differently than this President is doing. And as soon as we decide to care about the 150,000 in first life. As soon as we start to care, we know exactly what to do. It's exactly what's being done around the world and it will get us back on a path where we can walk our kids to school, where we can vote in person safely, but we haven't been willing to do that.

CUOMO: Look, I have on the bottom of the screen here, Andy, new study, some people who have not had COVID-19 might already have some immunity. We're learning more about our ability to fight this and T- cells and antibodies and all this different stuff. But what we know for sure right now is that if we had a plan, if we had everybody on the same page, doing the same kinds of things, we wouldn't be where we are. And yet we're still not doing it.

Andy Slavitt, thank you for telling us what the way is forward. Now, we've got to follow it. Be well, stay safe. All right, we've got a dose of normalcy in these strange times with a good event, right? The return of the NBA tonight. And it's no accident that the reason they're not having any cases is because they've been living in a bubble. You do it the right way. You don't get sick. You do it the wrong way. We just saw something, though, right before tipoff that in fact, means more than the pandemic. It is about the solution to what makes us sick. An extraordinary show of solidarity. People can come together for a higher purpose, we'll show it to you, next.



CUOMO: Well, the NBA season kicked off double header tonight, there was something bigger than basketball front and center just minutes ago, the Lakers and Clippers took a knee, all of them during the national anthem. The words Black Lives Matter emblazoned on the court and their t shirts. Superstar LeBron James just part of tonight's powerful back-to-back symbols of support. The same act of solidarity happened in the game just before with players from the New Orleans Pelicans and Utah Jazz kneeling as well. Along with the coaches and the refs, nobody can be seen standing.

Now, the President, the Right, they'll make this about patriotism. But this is and has always been about raising awareness. What does the flag stand for? if it does not wave with colors and beauty that resemble our rights.

In this country, we show how we feel. That is how we respect what we are about by exercising those rights. This is about raising awareness, not leveling disrespect. It never was. And many understand that now. And they all took a knee black, white, other there was quiet among them. They get it. How many others will?

Of course, it's controversial. Of course, it's polarizing. Change is hard. We've made very insignificant progress on this over a long time. But you've got to take progress where you find it. The unified move singles a shift in understanding and support. The NBA commissioner says this.

I respect our team's unified act of peaceful protest for social justice. And under these unique circumstances, we will not enforce our long-standing rule requiring standing during the playing of our national anthem. And you know what, I don't think he should enforce it. This is likely to be only the first of many shows of respect for victims. And a tweet just hours before the game, the players union wrote, While

the season is back, our focus remains the same. Black Lives Matter. Remember, nobody is trying to elevate blacks on top of anyone else. It's about being equal. It's about what's in our Constitution. Right. Liberty and justice for all, that's all - that's all it means.

The President doesn't get it, and he dealt another blow to the rest of us today when he had to deal with the loss of one of his friends to Coronavirus. But how he explained it, what he didn't say. This time, we all know former presidential candidate Herman Cain, he died way too young from Coronavirus just in his 70s, so many years in front of him.

The President said nothing about how the death changed, how he feels about.


How the death changed, how he feels about this pandemic, no sense of urgency. I want to talk to somebody who knows the President well and he knew Herman Cain well. We lost somebody who will matter in history, who mattered now, and we didn't have to lose him. Let's discuss with friend and colleague, Chris Ruddy, next.


CUOMO: Herman Cain's life, poverty to presidential front runner. Was something remarkable and uniquely American. It also ended far too soon, just in the 70s, he had a lot of life in front of them, like so many of the 150,000 plus that this pandemic has taken from us. There's a lot more to his story that he wanted to tell. In fact, he was about to launch a new show on Newsmax TV.

Chris Ruddy is both the CEO of Newsmax and a friend to President Trump, and he is a friend of the show as well. It's good to see you back on Primetime.

CHRIS RUDDY, NEWSMAX CEO: Glad to be back, Chris.

CUOMO: I'm sorry about Herm. I'm sorry for his family and I'm sorry for his extended family. He had a lot of life left in front of him. And I'm sorry we lost him as soon as we did and how we did.


RUDDY: Herman would - not want Americans to be sorry about his death. He loved America. He loved this country. He contributed to the very bitter end to this country and making it great and keeping it great. And so - and he was on borrowed time. You know, he had stage four cancer in 2006. He survived it. He beat it. And I think that was part of the thing. He was traveling all over the country. He thought he was invincible, and he wasn't invincible. This virus is going around, and he was doing book signings and going out on film tours. And he was at the Tulsa rally, a number of things. And you just couldn't stop the man. So, he was a force of nature, great American. And we will miss him. CUOMO: I, of course, extend only condolences to his family and I wish them well. This has to come as a shock because he already beat what was supposed to be his big challenge. So, on to your friend and our President. I don't understand why something like this, something like everything that's going on around him has not shaken. His approach to this pandemic, I don't understand why he won't embrace his role and take charge and tell the experts around him to make a plan to fight what's going on. What is his resistance, Chris?

RUDDY: Chris, I think he's done a good job. First of all, let's give him credit A plus for handling the economic response. We faced a near economic collapse. He has signed off on three and now soon to be four bipartisan stimulus bills that are in the trillions of dollars to keep this economy going, keep the country going.

You know, Barack Obama, when he started his presidency, started with a trillion-dollar stimulus. He wouldn't allow any Republicans to be part of it. This President's just - four bipartisan stimulus bill, so the idea that somehow, he's some rogue president, he's working with Congress, he's doing the job he needs to do.

CUOMO: Wait, hold on. How is he doing his job? He needs to do. I don't want to talk about CNN but hold on a second. We just had our worst quarter in history. We are relatively faring worse than other countries that dealt with this at similar scale and worse scale. I don't know how you give him an A plus. I wish you'd been one of my teachers in school, but don't make it about Obama. Obama inherited one of the worst economies in history and took some of the tools and added others and we turned it around, Democrat and Republican in an unprecedented fashion. I don't know why you'd want to compare it to that.

This is because of the pandemic and this--

RUDDY: No president has.

CUOMO: This President refuses to own this situation. You heard him say, Chris, I take no responsibility. Why?

RUDDY: Well, he's not responsible for the virus. I think we all agree.

CUOMO: He's responsible for the response to the virus and the bad testing.

RUDDY: I think it's been pretty darn good.

CUOMO: How is good? By what measure? We're the worst?

RUDDY: Well, compare us to Europe, the death percentage here are less than in Europe. He inherited a terrible situation that he didn't - he's not a dictator in terms of health. There's 50 states, the health systems--

CUOMO: He's not a dictator in terms of health. He shouldn't be a dictator in terms of anything. That's why he shouldn't be talking about moving the election. RUDDY: Chris, the highest death rates in the world are in New York

state, New Jersey. It's over 1300 per million. Florida only has 150. Most of the country is under 200 deaths.

CUOMO: First of all--

RUDDY: If you minus--

CUOMO: Florida has the worst numbers in the country and the reason they have them is because they neglected this crisis. All right.

RUDDY: The death rate across Europe in the key countries that were affected is about 500 people per million that have died. In New York, it's over 1300, New Jersey, it's even higher. And you're blaming the President for what happened in New York and New Jersey? I think--

CUOMO: No, I'm blaming the President for the lack of response. He's left the states to themselves. And this is a national emergency. We need a plan. We need better testing and turnaround. He did it with the wall. Why won't he do it with the pandemic?

RUDDY: Look, when this first happened in January, the President made the most crucial decision the President could make, which was cutting air traffic to China, it was opposed by Joe Biden, it was opposed by Nancy Pelosi. She went to Chinatown to complain about it. It was opposed by Anthony Fauci. It was opposed by the Europeans. It was opposed by everybody. But he did. It probably saved us 100,000 addition--

CUOMO: The virus had already moved to Europe, Chris. You don't know what you're talking about. And he missed that.

RUDDY: That's right. But he didn't--

CUOMO: And then he did nothing on testing, and he pretended we didn't have cases for a month--

RUDDY: The Germans and Italians wouldn't cut the air traffic. If anything, we were slow.


Cutting the traffic in from Europe--

CUOMO: Chris, the problem is the testing. The problem is the testing. This isn't a tax bill. This isn't a trade bill. People are dying here, Chris, because of his inaction and you know it.

RUDDY: No, I think his activity has been pretty damn good.

CUOMO: Where's our plan on schools? Where's our plan on testing?

RUDDY: Let's go through with - part of this, he's been getting such conflicting medical advice. Here you have Dr. Fauci in January said this was not going to be a problem, this virus--

CUOMO: In January.

RUDDY: Yes. And he told people not to wear masks. He told people--

CUOMO: And then he changed--

RUDDY: Baseball season--

CUOMO: And everybody else changed and he never did.

RUDDY: The baseball season was going open. So, why if Dr. Fauci can change and he gives the President all of this conflicting, terrible advice, if the President changes, he's a bad guy.

CUOMO: He never changed. He said wear a mask. And then he went to a rally - hold on a second, Chris. Listen. I respect you. I like having you on the show. But let's just settle this once and for all. All right. Yes, they all got it wrong. They didn't know what they were dealing with. They made bad judgments. The difference between Trump and Fauci and the rest of the people in that team was screwed up. They admit it.

Second, they changed. He never did. He said masks were a joke. There's reporting from Jake Sherman that people on Capitol Hill are still told not to wear masks. He just went to Texas where they're getting killed--

RUDDY: The President has openly said--

CUOMO: To a mask less rally. Why would he do that?

RUDDY: The President has said, he supports the use of masks. He supports social distance.

CUOMO: Why go to a rally where they have no masks?

RUDDY: He backed many of the lockdowns all over the country. I'm not saying everything he's done is perfect, but I think--

CUOMO: That's big of you, Chris.

RUDDY: He's done a pretty darn good job with the economic response, which has been bipartisan.

CUOMO: We just had our own worst quarter in history.

RUDDY: You know, I just need to quote Andrew Cuomo. I think you know that guy's name. And he has praised the President for the support he gave New York. Governor Newsom in California. Why do we conveniently forget this? I know where--

CUOMO: Hold on, Chris, you talk about - hold on, you want to talk about selective memories--

RUDDY: With the election.

CUOMO: When Cuomo and Newsom praised, they had a reason. When they criticized, which is a hell of a lot more than they praised, they had reason as well. I think you know this. I know it for sure. The states around this country are drowning in cases and desperate for help. This President started this nonsense about this magic pill, hydroxychloroquine yesterday talking to this lady who believes in alien sex. Then today he mentions the drugs that we're trying to develop to fight. He doesn't even mention it.

Today, he talks about changing the date of an election, but he doesn't worry about kids going back to school. Come on.

RUDDY: I support national testing. Although the President can't dictate national testing. We have 50 different states, the health systems in New York and California--

CUOMO: But he can help--

RUDDY: In the local.

CUOMO: He can help. He moved heaven and earth to build a wall. Why can't he get our test turnaround?

RUDDY: Any governor that calls this President says, I need help. They're going to get help.

CUOMO: They don't. They don't. Hogan (ph) just wrote an op ed and he's a Republican. And he said, I didn't get the help. Republicans and Democrats all over the country begging for help.

RUDDY: Which governor was that?

CUOMO: Hogan in Maryland.

RUDDY: Yes, but if you look at Governor Hogan's conference, he's been critical of this President. He's been on CNN--

CUOMO: He's a Republican. He's done a hell of a job helping his state. And he asked for help and he didn't get it. So, are you saying that because he's not nice to Trump, he didn't get help? Is that what you're saying?

RUDDY: I know we're in a very deeply divisive political period in this country, but I think we should work together. The President has been working with Congress on the economic response, the health response has been very important. We're getting a lot of conflicting advice on what people should do or shouldn't do. I think the President has been generally supportive of the conventional approach on this, but he's open to listening to other points of view as well, which I think is good.

He wants social distancing. People are, you know, people. Herman Cain, I loved Herman Cain, but Herman Cain had cancer. He knew the risks. He still wanted to live life to the fullest. He still wanted to travel. He was on planes going all over the country. And it wasn't the President of the United States to told him to travel. People that know. CUOMO: Yes, but he encouraged him to go to a rally where nobody would socially distance and nobody would wear masks. Chris, I'm just saying, look, we could have this same conversation about a lot of other issues.

RUDDY: The President is not telling people to not wear masks, where is this come from?

CUOMO: He has been absolutely telling them that he thought masks were insulting and that they're silly. Listen to his fool Willie Gohmert saying exactly those kinds of things? Look, all I'm saying, Chris, is this. This is different. People are sick and dying and our kids are going to get screwed up for a long time if we don't get this right.

He is the President, it's time for him to step up. I always appreciate you arguing his case and you're always welcome here to do so. And I'm glad to see you look and well. And I hope you stay healthy.


RUDDY: I'm glad you're doing well, Chris.

CUOMO: And I am sorry about Herman Cain. And please extend our condolences.

RUDDY: He's a good man. And I'm sure he's close with God now. And he was a great American and we will miss him dearly.

CUOMO: Amen. Thank you, Chris. All right let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.


CUOMO: John Lewis, may you rest in peace, some of his final words called arms, ordinary people with extraordinary vision can redeem the soul of America by getting in what I call good trouble, necessary trouble, voting and participating in the democratic process are key. The vote is the most powerful, nonviolent change agent you have in a democratic society. You must use it because it is not guaranteed, you can lose it.

Published the same day at this current.


President floated the idea of moving the election not sooner, maybe later. The juxtaposition not lost on President Obama.


OBAMA: There are those in power who are doing their darndest to discourage people from voting by closing polling locations and targeting minorities and students with restrictive ID laws and attacking our voting rights with surgical precision, even undermining the postal service in the run up to an election that's going to be dependent on mail in ballots so people don't get sick. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: May John Lewis rest in peace and may the rest of us fight together for justice for all. We're coming right back.