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Mother And Four Kids Handcuffed At Gunpoint By Police; Seven Governors Join Deal In Pursuit Of First Multistate Coordinated Testing Strategy; Progressive Beats Longtime Democratic Representative In Primary Upset; Joe Biden Will Not Travel To Milwaukee To Accept Nomination; Closing Argument: Life Is Pain Management. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired August 05, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[22:00:00]

BRITTNEY GILLIAM, MOTHER HANDCUFFED AT GUNPOINT WITH FOUR CHILDREN IN VEHICLE: I'm not going to go looking (INAUDIBLE) out the car. I go look for anything that cause trouble. So she is like, no, they got their guns drawn on us. And so I so happen to look at the window and like, you know, I yell out at the officer, why do you have your guns drawn? What is going on?

He didn't respond. He repeated, you know, everybody, put your hands out of the vehicle, so then at the windows and everything like that, so we all proceeded to do that. And then out of nowhere, he was just like, everybody now people, start stepping out.

So I was like -- my niece started to get out. My eldest niece started to get out of the vehicle. She opened the door (INAUDIBLE). I was like, no, you're not going anywhere. You know, he hasn't told us, no one has told us what is going on. We don't have like, you know, he's not telling us what the reason he got his gun drawn and (INAUDIBLE). No, like, you know, he needs to tell us what's going on.

So I yell out, I said, what's going on? He didn't respond. So then my niece started screaming. I said, you know, I need you to calm down. She is, no, I can't because, you know, it's another officer that got their gun drawn on me. So I said, OK, you know what, just forget it, get out of the car and listen to what they say.

They tell her to get out and then they go to my little sister Mikah (ph), she then gets out, and then my niece Terriana (ph). But before she gets out, I'm telling my niece Terriana (ph), hey, get your phone and start recording. And so she is like, OK. So she put her hands back and from the window and like, you know, he starts screaming and yelling like, you know, get your hands out the window, get your hands out the window --

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Just to be very clear, Brittney, we're dealing with a car filled with women, OK, a six-year-old, a 12-year-old, a 14- year-old, a 17-year-old, and you?

GILLIAM: That's correct.

CUOMO: And this is how they're handling it, they're not giving you any directions, and eventually they get you out of the car?

GILLIAM: So eventually they get all of us out of the vehicle. And then they tell me to get out of the vehicle. When I proceed to get out of the vehicle, they tell me to get on the ground. So I was like, I start walking towards him, to officer that had his gun drawn on me.

But as I was walking, I guess I was walking too fast, he said you're moving too fast, get on your knees, I got on my knees but I was turned backward. He said, no, I need you to turn my way. I said, you didn't say that, you just said get on your knees.

So then when I got on my knees and I turned around, you know, I placed my hand right above my knees. And so he is like, you know, he kept yelling like, I can't see your hands, I can't see your hands. So I slammed my hands on the concrete. There is no way you can see my hands. You can't see my hands. You're telling me you cannot see my hands. I'm in shorts and a t-shirt. You still have to tell me what's going on.

So then he started to like handcuff me and he said, you know, this vehicle is stolen. I was like, this vehicle isn't stolen. You're going to have to prove to me that this vehicle is stolen. I'm driving this vehicle. This is my vehicle. This vehicle is not stolen.

So then he is like, you know, it's stolen, it's stolen. He's like, I'm going to get you to the car. I'm like, no, you're not getting me to the car. All I hear are the kids crying and screaming. Then I see them like, you know, like over top of the kids. So I start walking towards the kids and he grabbed me.

He is, like, I will escort you to the car. I said you don't have to escort me or anything. Don't touch me. You don't have to touch me at all. I can perfectly work my way. We all complied with you. I said do you need to verify anything? I said I comply. Do you need to verify the license or registration? What is there that you need to do because you have a gun on kids and you have me on hand cuffs.

He was like, I'm going to handle it the way -- he is going to handle it his way. I was like, OK, whatever. So then I wouldn't go to the vehicle, the police vehicle, so then he asked the officer to escort me. So two officers then escorted me to the vehicle. And then when I got to the back of the vehicle, I was just sitting there for like several minutes, and then it came back like, you know, that everything -- that the vehicle was cleared.

CUOMO: I cannot believe --

GILLIAM: And then like, you know --

CUOMO: While you're speaking Brittney, put the video up again. I have never seen except maybe in an immigration situation, I've never seen -- look at the 6-year-old, your kid who has got like some kind of princess head -- a crown on, and they are having her lay on the ground! What are you thinking when you are seeing your 6-year-old laying on the ground at the feet of the police?

[22:05:00]

GILLIAM: I'm helpless. I'm helpless and I'm devastated. I'm in the weakest point. I never felt like so embarrassed, humiliated, and dehumanized in my entire life. I was just another little black girl. That little girl was just another little black girl that he didn't care about, none of those girls.

CUOMO: Now the police say, Brittney, the police say this. "We have been training our officers that when they contact a suspected stolen car, they should do what is called a high-risk stop. This involves drawing their weapons and ordering all occupants to exit the car and lie prone on the ground. But we must allow our officers to have discretion and to deviate from this process when different scenarios present themselves. I have already directed my team to look at new practices and training."

That's from the police chief, Vanessa Wilson, in their statement to CNN.

GILLIAM: Yeah.

CUOMO: What is your response?

GILLIAM: I -- can I be honest?

CUOMO: Please.

GILLIAM: She can shove it. She can shove it because she contradicted herself. When she made her apology to me, she went on the same way the lieutenant and the sergeant did. It was protocol at a high-risk stop they are supposed to draw their guns. You're trying to justify the fact that it's OK for these people to draw their guns on my kids.

I can understand that you drew the gun on me, just myself like, you know, mom, I am going to need you to step out of the vehicle. You never once asked for a license or a registration. You never once tried to change the route or anything. It was five officers on the scene at the point. Not one officer chased the route of where they were going.

CUOMO: When did they apologize?

GILLIAM: When they apologized, it was like two hours after the fact. And they didn't apologize to everyone. They apologized to my little sister they handcuffed and my niece they handcuffed. And then he was like -- oh, but it was only one officer that apologized. It was like, you know, I feel bad because what I did was wrong, I was wrong. And they proceed to walk away.

And then the lieutenant did apologized. But then, like I said, I don't want to accept their apology because I felt like you're justifying the fact like you're trying to explain to me like it's OK, what they did (ph) over a mistake. But you can't even tell me how that mistake happened. You can't put yourself in my shoes as a human. As a black woman, you can't put your feet in my shoes.

CUOMO: Do you think that would have happened if there were four white girls in the car?

GILLIAM: No, it would have never happened if there were four white girls in the car. They would have treated it as a regular traffic stop, regular traffic stop, not a high-risk traffic stop, a regular traffic stop.

You see four black girls, five black girls in a vehicle, and you decide to proceed the way you did. And the point where you saw those kids get out of the vehicle, you should stop right there. You shouldn't have drawn your gun. You should have like, you know what, I am going to have to (INAUDIBLE) and mam, I need you to step out of the vehicle.

Not once did anybody say that. It's not my duty to do your job for you. I shouldn't have to tell you, do you want to see my license and registration? That is your job as an officer. You never once asked. Neither one of them.

CUOMO: That's what they're supposed to ask first. That's what they're supposed to ask first. Well, look, Brittney, you couldn't tell the story any better. It seizes up with everything that we've seen. And we know this isn't the end because an apology is not enough in a situation like this where your six-year-old daughter is put on the ground.

We will stay on this situation. We will stay in touch with you. If there is anything -- David Lane, if there's anything that you want to offer up to us about you learned about the case and what they say they're going to change versus what gets changed, you have an open here at CNN.

Brittney, I'm so sorry to meet you this way. But in a way, people need to hear the story. They need to hear what the truth is, for too many people in this country, including little girls with pretty little princess head crowns on, because they're not being treated like princesses way too often.

Brittney, be well and good luck.

GILLIAM: Thank you.

CUOMO: David Lane, thank you.

GILLIAM: You as well.

CUOMO: Tough time to get your head around the reality in this country, tough time to get your head around the reality in this country. How does that image not stay with you? Imagine if that was your 6-year-old daughter, a little princess crown, and a cop makes her lie down on her stomach, because it's supposed to be treated as a high-risk stop, a 6- year-old girl?

I mean, we've got to be better than this. I know the job is hard. I know that overwhelmingly these are good men and women -- black, white, brown, yellow doing the job in communities that they care about.

[22:10:04]

CUOMO: I know. But not enough of them are that way. We cannot keep having scenarios like this. It can't keep shocking the conscience. Eventually, we're going to have to own the fact that this happens too often, because we're not treating each other well enough and we're not insisting on the standards to keep that.

If it's not a natural suggestion, it's a must, based on your training. It just can't be, man. You just can't have a six-year-old child lying on the ground like that. An apology is meaningless. You are what you do. You stop people like that and if you don't know it's wrong, you're in the wrong job.

We've got two pandemics going on in this country. I can't say it the way D. Lemon would, but I understand how he feels about these, because it's embarrassing to me. I almost feel like I have to apologize to these black men and women that I interview on this show, when all too often it's white police officers doing this.

Two pandemics, and in a way, we are suffering from the same thing with both of them, a lack of truth, a lack of transparency, and a lack of a willingness to do better.

And at the top, in both instances is a president who is denying the reality. Racism, Blacks being attacked more than whites, it is what it is. Pandemic, it is what it is. What are you going to do about it? Here is his latest idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Absolutely. In my mind, it will go away. Please, go ahead. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: He said that in February. Racism gonna go away, too? His top infectious disease expert is Dr. Fauci, of course. He says the opposite, which is also known as the science. Coronavirus, yeah, it will go away after it eats through a bunch of us. The whole point is to hasten its exit, to make it go away faster.

Now, Fauci will say, by the way, it's so contagious. It really may not ever go away completely, it may just get smaller and smaller in different pockets as more people get immunity, we get a vaccine, more people get sick of being sick, and they do things about it.

And the key, of course, is about us. The cure is the same in both of these pandemics: Together as ever as one. If we care about our brothers and sisters, Christians most of all, it should be most natural for us to see through color. If we care about doing the right things, I wear a mask for you as much as I wear it for me.

I had the disease and I had the antibodies, why am I wearing a mask? Because I don't know and if there's any chance, I want to protect you from me. Look, I don't have a simple solution on racism. You can just love one another. We can't do it evidently. There's an easier way with the pandemic: testing, rapid testing, and quick turnaround. No right away testing, so we know who's sick and we know who's not. It will change our society.

But it's not happening here the way it did in the U.K. because they had leadership from the top. The guy looks like Trump but he acts totally differently, Boris Johnson.

So look, I want to bring in Dr. Rajiv Shah. I am going to take a break, because look, we can't just move on from that interview with Brittney. We just can't just move on. She and four kids, 6, 12, 14, 17, put down face down, 6-year-old with a crown to be treated like dirt. You can't just move on. So, we got to process.

Now, we will take a break. We will come back. We will process our next problem, which is why did these governors have to get together to do something that the federal government should have done, and is that really our best, most efficacious route to getting got the testing that we need? Yes or no? I got an expert who has the answer, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: So, what are we to make of the seven-state team up, this effort to create mass purchasing power to convince companies to create more rapid tests for them, so they can turn around their situations with cases and timing?

Let's talk to the man with the plan. That is Dr. Rajiv Shah. He is the president of the Rockefeller Foundation and a former administrator of USAID. It is good to see you, doc.

RAJIV SHAH, PRESIDENT, ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION, FORMER ADMINISTRATOR OF USAID: Good to see you, Chris. Thanks for having me.

CUOMO: Now, I'm very aware of the plan. The Rockefeller Foundation from very early on said, look, you got to get quick turnaround in smart testing, pool testing and antigen testing, and the federal government should be leading this, the same way you guys said about PPE.

What is your best sense of why it isn't happening at the federal level although they say it is? So I guess the first part of the question is doc, do you see any indication that they are doing it? And two, to the extent that you do not, why do you believe that to be?

SHAH: Well, testing in America today is simply not working. We know that. Everyone is saying the same thing.

The long delays in getting diagnostic PCR test results, three, four, five, six, some cases 10 or 12 days, that really invalidates the value of the data because the whole point of getting the tests is to find out quickly if you're positive and if you are, you take yourself out of circulation, so to speak, so that you're not transmitting the disease unknowingly to someone else.

That simply is not happening with America's testing regime.

[22:19:55]

SHAH: Furthermore, as has been pointed out again by people on both sides of the aisle, nearly 40 percent, some estimate 50 percent, of all transmission happens amongst people who do not have symptoms.

So we still have federal CDC guidance that focuses on people with symptoms or a medical reason to get a test. But the reality is we need to shift our paradigm. Think about this differently and start using cheap, fast testing to screen populations in nursing homes, in schools, in critical essential businesses, in health care facilities, and for the essential workers that are keeping our country functioning right now.

CUOMO: Now, if it's good for six states to ban together to create purchasing power, why wouldn't it be much better for the federal government to do the same thing? Not only do they have them Emergency Production Powers Act, where they could ramp up and capitalize companies, but what's a bigger pocket than they are nationally?

SHAH: Well, and frankly you've seen what the federal government has done on vaccines with Operation Warp Speed.

The Rockefeller group has pulled together, you know, more than actually 100 experts, many of whom are former Republican and Democratic officials, and they're all calling for the same thing, effectively an Operation Warp Speed for diagnostic testing and screening test to get up 30 million tests a week. Today, we are at about five and a half million tests a week and we are not going to get to 30 without real leadership.

The action that you just made reference to, with Democratic governors and Republican governors coming together, holding hands, announcing at the National Governors Association that they will band together to buy and use screening tests, and they'll back a set of protocols that will help schools, local businesses, other critical institutions to understand how to use this, is a big step forward and we are proud to have helped pull that together.

CUOMO: But why did you have to do it? Why didn't the federal government do it? They did it in the U.K. Boris Johnson looks like Donald Trump. Hoe come Trump is not acting like the one who looks like him in the U.K.?

When you talk to those people on the federal level, we know this exchange between the foundation of your size and the federal officials, they need the guidance from NGOs like you, what do they say about why they're not doing it?

SHAH: Well, to be honest, we are working together with everybody. So we work with more than 30 cities and states around the country with their leaders. We are working with the federal government. Brett Giroir, the admiral who leads the testing effort, recently announced a sort of effort to do exactly this program but specifically for nursing homes.

And I think what they see is a constraint in industry's capacity to scale up production. And what we're suggesting is by bringing together those who have demand for this test, and frankly by setting a new mindset in our country about using screening test in a far more ubiquitous manner. We think we can actually get industry to overcome those constraints --

CUOMO: Yeah. But look, Rajiv --

SHAH: -- five or 10 million tests so we get to 30 million.

CUOMO: I'm with you and I love the aim. But I think that you're being too benevolent in the understanding of the underlying motivation, maybe not Brett Giroir, by his boss, because we know what the answer is here. It is an output contract.

I don't know that industry can scale up that. Well, give them the money to scale up. Do what you did with the wall. Find the money, find the will and say we are going to do it, find people to build it. They could do the same thing here. It's the same mentality as Warp Speed.

Go to these companies. You know who they are. Go to other chemical companies and say, we will give you the money, we will give you the capital, find the reagent, tell us how to do this, and we will buy all that you can put out, we will buy it here. You know that that conversation is not --

SHAH: No, it's not at all. In fact, that's what we've been advocating for since April when Rockefeller put out this 1-3-30 Plan --

CUOMO: Right.

SHAH: -- that said first, let's get to three million tests a week. Then by the fall when the next flu season hits, we have to be at 30 million tests a week. Otherwise, schools won't be able to open and society won't be able to function. I think we're seeing that the fall will be worse than the spring without a significant scale up of screening tests.

One of the other critical barriers, it is purchasing and manufacturing capacity, is the fact that the federal government has not yet issued protocols that advice, you know, take just as one example, schools, on how to use screening tests.

CUOMO: Mm-hmm.

SHAH: And, you know, I can tell you that because we work in 30 cities around the country, it makes it hard for institutions in America to make the decision. OK, we see what the NBA is doing, we see what Major League Baseball is doing, should we doing that for our teachers? Should they have the luxury of being safe when they go to work? Should we be doing that for our students?

The Harvard is issuing guidance. All these great public health schools around the country are issuing their own protocols. It is not yet coming from the CDC. We think it is desperately needed from the Centers for Disease Control.

CUOMO: The idea that we're talking about teachers having the luxury of being safe, it should be the standard.

[22:25:01]

CUOMO: Hopefully, those people buzzing in on you, Rajiv, the federal government saying, hey, we've gotten past our worries about production, we'll create the production demand for them, and we'll do this on a national level. It won't just be six states, it will 50.

Dr. Rajiv Shah, thank you for doing the work for us.

SHAH: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: God bless. Be healthy.

Political stunner (ph), congressional seat held by one family since 1969 is going to get a new leader. That's right, one family since 1969. The winner of last night's democratic primary upset is on the forefront of the progressive movement.

Cori Bush is here to talk about how she defeated a man whose father helped create the Congressional Black Caucus. She has unique viewpoints on the two major crises in our country right now, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORI BUSH (D), MISSOURI CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: It is historic that this year, of all years --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Yes.

BUSH: -- we are sending a black working class single mother --

(APPLAUSE)

BUSH: -- who has been for black lives from Ferguson all the way to the hall of the Congress --

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. That is progressive activist Cori Bush. She scored a remarkable upset victory over 20-year incumbent Missouri Congressman William Lacy Clay, Jr.

The seat is part of a political dynasty. Clay's father held the seat as far back as 1969. Clay Jr. defeated Bush by 20 points back in the 2018 primary.

But last night, things turned around. Bush turned the tables on the moderate incumbent, proving the power, arguably, of the progressive or left wing part of the Democratic Party called "The Squad" What does this mean for Cori Bush? What does this mean for the party? Who better to answer? Congratulations, congressman-elect.

(LAUGHTER)

BUSH: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

CUOMO: How did you win this time versus last time? What was different?

BUSH: We started out with more name ID. We ran the same race against the same person. You know, I'm in a film that is on Netflix, "Knock Down the House" so that when -- the film did well, so people knew me when I went to the doors this time around. We started early. And then we had a more organized team.

I was a national surrogate for Sen. Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign, so we were able to get a lot more momentum that way. And so people started donating. When we close at our last race, we were less than $180,000 in donations. This time, we're at 800,000. That really helped us. It helped us get on TV, billboards off the highway. It helped.

CUOMO: So from politics to policy, why are you different than Clay, Jr. and what kind of different Democrat are you?

BUSH: Well, you know, I always called myself an active leader. One thing that is known throughout the district is people talk about Congressman Clay, and this is not a jab at him. I mean, he is -- we have to be able to work together in this transition.

But I have no hard feelings or anything ill will against him. But people always say that he is just absent. He is an absent leader. And that is not who I have been. I have been on the ground even before Ferguson, fighting for the population, fighting for our people and human trafficking.

And then when Marco Brown (ph) was murdered, I took to the streets more than 400 days. We protested in Ferguson and in the St. Louis area, again during the Jason Stockley verdict in 2017, and now for the George Floyd and Breonna Taylor protests, you know, I have been out organizing and leading protests.

CUOMO: Let me ask you one big political question, and then I want to get back to how you see the pandemic and what you think the challenge is for your party and your community going forward. Biden is not the same kind of Democrat issue for issue that you are.

BUSH: Right.

CUOMO: What is your level of concern that misgivings about Biden as a proxy may cost you the presidency?

BUSH: Look, we have to for it. We can't allow another Trump administration. So whatever we have to do to make sure that that person is not in that seat, you know, I am out to galvanize it. That's the next thing that I'm doing, I am galvanizing people to the polls.

I'm working hard and working in different communities, making sure that they know that they can vote, that they should vote, that it's safe to vote. That is what I'm working on.

That is the person that is the choice right now. The alternative to that is someone who has been hurting our communities, has helped to fuel this hatred that is going on that is causing people that look like me and our brown community members, so many people to live with even more oppression than what we were before, fighting for black lives.

It's a daily thing that I have lived with my entire life and that my friends have lived with forever. That is happening right now at the hands of this person, how he has helped to push that, this time, I won't allow it, so I am working to help get Joe Biden elected.

CUOMO: You see the pandemic and the disease of racism as connected, how?

BUSH: Yeah, to pandemics. Well, one thing is when I think about what happened in my own district, you know, COVID-19 hit the St. Louis area and it hit the black community the hardest. And black women carried the most cases. We have so many black women who are essential workers that are working in nursing homes.

[22:35:03]

BUSH: And so we were in the position right on the front lines. Some of essential workers aren't making at least the minimum wage. I mean, aren't making more than the minimum wage. Where is the health care? Where is the benefit? So that put us in a position.

Underlying causes, when I think about my own COVID-19 situation, I'm sorry for what you went through, but I watched you come through it, you know, you gave me hope, a valid point in my situation. That thing knocked me down for two whole months.

If I was working a regular every day job, that would have -- I don't know what I would have done because I couldn't get out of bed for two months for the most part other than walking to the bathroom, trying to breathe all day. People had to live through that.

CUOMO: I hear a lot of people starting to make the argument that it's not just policing. Policing is a symptom of inequality and of unequal opportunity. And the pandemic is every bit as much of that, as well, because there is similarity of why this community is more likely to be sick and sick worse than more percentage of essential workers that don't have access to health care. They check more boxes of pre-existing conditions. They don't have access to food and money to take care of themselves. It is the same way, so they are related.

Well, you are getting into power at a very important time in our history. We will be watching what you are able to do within your party and how you handle it. And you will always have a platform to make the case right here. Congressman-elect Cori Bush, congratulations.

BUSH: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Be well. I will talk to you soon.

All right, now, this was an upset win. But it's not the only big boost that the progressive part of the Democratic Party got last night. Paul Begala on the recent developments and why he believes he's got political kryptonite to offer in the campaign against Trump. Look at that beard, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Former VP Joe Biden will not be in Milwaukee to accept the Democratic nomination. Instead, he's going to do it virtually from his home state of Delaware, the convention speech, usually one of those big moments in the campaign, lots of people are watching.

It's the kind of event people like Paul Begala say can make a race for the White House. Paul is also out with a new book. Paul's book is called "You're Fired: The Perfect Guide to Beating Donald Trump." We welcome him to "Prime Time" as always. Good to see you, brother. The family --

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to see you, Chris. Thank you. Thank you. Everybody is great. Thank you. You look terrific for a man who is about to turn 50.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: I feel like I'm 65. I have never had a more rapid dissent from where I thought I was than in the last few months. I will use that as segue to your book. Why do you believe that there is a perfect guide to beating this president as Teflon as he has proven, even now, in the last month, his numbers have settled, even come up a little tick with all the bad news around him?

BEGALA: Well, because I have learned from my mistakes. And Democrats have learned from their mistakes. Let me tell you what I got wrong. You covered it, but I participated. I was an adviser to the Super PAC that was helping Hillary. We ran $190 million with ads. All of them attacking Trump, which was our job, but all of them are really attacking his character, which I don't regret, they're all true, in my opinion. But I didn't connect it up to people's lives. It was oh, look, he says he brags about grabbing women. Oh, look, he insulted POW. Oh, look, he mocks a man's disability. But I didn't tie back in to the life of a retiree in Pennsylvania, a farmer in Wisconsin, an office worker in Michigan. I didn't connect it back to people's lives.

This is a cardinal mistake that i made. Democrats are not going to make it again. They are going to make the election about the voters, not about Trump. There's a huge distinction.

CUOMO: I think the biggest threat that is facing you is what I was just talking to the congresswoman about, which is, you guys are prone to splintering. You are getting your own way. You start your fights. You have purity tests. Biden fails a lot of those purity tests --

BEGALA: Right.

CUOMO: -- for people on the left wing. If you do not see it as a binary situation, the way people on the right do, you will lose. How worried are you about that?

BEGALA: That's right. Well, less worried than ever before. I have watched your interview with Ms. Bush. She was remarkable, a star is born. She was focused, she was empathetic, she was active leadership, serving leadership, and from a very progressive wing of the party, she was a Bernie Sanders spokesperson, she said.

She is telling you that she is going to bust your rear end now for Joe Biden. I have never seen the party more united. I think Democrats make better presidents because you have to unite a broad, diverse, multiracial, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-gender, multigenerational party, which are pretty good training for uniting a multi-gender, multi-religious, multicultural country. But it is hard to do.

CUOMO: Will they still vote for him at the debate when Trump is saying -- because they're going to debate, right? And when Trump is saying this guy is in favor of these crazy lefties, whoever you want, there's no such thing, there's no god, there is no this, and he's going to have to say, hold on a second, you know, and now he's going to have to have an answer.

That answer is almost assured, Paul. We both know it. We probably wouldn't be sitting next to each other at some of this at some point. It will be unsatisfactory to people in your party. How threatening is that?

BEGALA: Because the Democrats now see it, as Ms. Bush did an interview with you, as a binary choice. You're voting for Trump or you're voting for Biden? That's really it. A lot of the left in 2016 did take a walk.

[22:45:02]

BEGALA: And I don't see that now. Before the COVID, I was out campaigning with a lot of these candidates. Now, I do the Zoom calls with them and talking to activists. Nothing unites people like a threat from Mars. Trump is a threat from Mars. Let him try that on Joe Biden from Scranton, Pennsylvania. Really, they're going to call him some kind of crazy leftie?

And yet the progressive -- as a Clinton guy, as a moderate from that wing of the party, my hat is off to the left. My hat is off to Cori Bush and the rest of the left who are busting their tails for a guy who is probably their third or fourth or fifth choice. But they're doing it. That's what it takes to win. I'm really impressed with how the left is conducting itself this year.

CUOMO: So, you got Bush in Missouri, Tlaib, Jon Hoadley in Michigan, down ballot wins in St. Louis. So if it's just binary, your party is changing, how does the party do the change with a guy who doesn't reflect the change?

BEGALA: Oh, he does. This is all a difference between a progressive and a leftist. Right now, you're going to get in Joe Biden a very progressive president but in the mainstream of the Democratic Party. I do write about this in the book.

I live in Virginia now. Ralph Northam is a moderate. He beat a leftist in the primary, Tom Perriello. You know what Tom did? He didn't take his marbles and go home. He busted his rear end. He went to places you never heard of in Virginia campaigning for Northam.

What did the left get from that? The most progressive governor in Virginia history. He is tearing down the statue of Robert E. Lee, new protections for LGBTQ Virginians, protections for women's right to choice, gun safety laws. He is the most progressive governor Virginia has ever had.

So the left cooperated with the moderates and they got a whole lot of what they want. That's politics at its best. That is what is happening with Biden now. He has united this party as never before.

CUOMO: Why does it matter that he doesn't go to Milwaukee?

BEGALA: I hate that he can't do that. He's actually a terrific warrior. He is a really good speaker. I have seen him light up a room. I hate he can't do it.

But unlike Trump, he is not a pathological narcissist. He actually cares about other people. He doesn't want to put thousands of people at risk in a rally. He doesn't want to put his staff in secret service and everybody else at risk. So he has really got no choice. But I do think it is a shame. I love those things. You know that. I am a political guy. That is like --

CUOMO: Where do you put him?

BEGALA: -- Super Bowl and a Willie Nelson concert.

CUOMO: Where do you -- that will not be my depiction. But I get it. I get it. Who would you put him with in his house, where is he, and who is around him? BEGALA: You know he is all about family. I have a broad definition of family. I remember a great former governor of New York with the same name as you who talks about the family of New York and the family of America. And I think that metaphor is really apt for Democrats.

I think your father embodied it so perfectly. I think Joe needs to do that. I think he is very much in that tradition, not only his own family but other families, social distance and blah, blah, blah. But it is all about family for Joe Biden. I have known him a very long time. I am sure you have, too.

It all begins and ends with family with Joe. The great thing about him is he cares as much about my family as he does about his own. That's what we want in a president.

CUOMO: I will tell you what, I have never seen anybody deal with people in the time of loss the way he does as a man, not as a politician. The way he loved Beau and the way he dealt with Beau's loss and the way he reaches out to others, I have never seen anything like it.

I'll still come after him about his politics. That is my job. But I'll never forget how he was about my father. I will never forget his son.

Paul Begala, good luck with the book. It is called "You're Fired: The Perfect Guide to Beating Donald Trump." Be well, brother. We will be right back.

BEGALA: Thank you, Chris. Great to see you.

CUOMO: All right, man.

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[22:50:00]

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CUOMO: I'm not 50 yet. Stop rushing me. Stop wishing me a happy birthday. It's this Sunday. Thank you for reaching out. You people are great. You are why I do this job.

So because I am turning 50 this Sunday and I can't really have a party and I don't really know how to celebrate it and I don't really feel like celebrating it, I have lived a lot, though, and I've had an incredibly full and blessed life. I've seen lots of good and lots of bad all over this word, especially in myself. And I want to share some of the lessons.

So, lesson number three is that life is pain management, personally, professionally, politically. Now, one of my big shots on the team said to me, so your message tonight is that life sucks and then it ends? No, it is exactly the opposite.

That the only mistake you make in life is refusing to deal with the hard parts, because as we all know, my brothers and sisters, pain will come. It is very much part of life -- loss, longing, death, lovelessness, failure, physical pain, professional disappointment, personal doubts and misgivings, psychological angst. It's all gonna come.

What's the mistake? That it comes? No, that's reality. The mistake is that we don't deal with it too often, especially men. We make a mistake as seeing toughness as denial. I'm OK, I don't have to deal with it, I'll drink it away. Strength is dealing, not denial.

You learn with life to manage what comes your way. You have to, because that's how you cope. By coping, you improve. And by improving, you avoid more of the same type of pain.

COVID took me low. In those moments, I had to confront not just fever but flaws, the truth about myself, what I had done, what I had not done. But more importantly, I confronted something you rarely hear men talk about -- pain, fear, hurt, how I had been hurt, how situations had hurt me, how I had hurt others. Men rarely say they are hurt or were hurt by anything other than, like, a tiger.

[22:55:01]

But emotional hurt scars deepest. It drives addiction, bad behaviors. We have to be strong enough to deal with what drives our desperation -- life management. It's true around us, as well.

We have a president who says he never had to ask God for forgiveness. He won't admit when he's wrong. He won't admit what has to be done in a pandemic. He won't admit there is systemic racism. Why? It is because he doesn't know how to manage negativity. He doesn't know how to manage pain except through denial. It's a mistake. It's weakness.

Here's the truth. You must deal with what disappoints. Problems require owning them and managing them -- feeling, communicating, coping, and thereby changing. Life is pain management, because all of it is coming.

And here's the biggest part of the lesson. If you don't learn pain management, you'll never appreciate the good that comes in life, because without the pain, you don't understand the upside of the relief of when beautiful things and blessings come in your life.

You squander the good moments, worrying about the bad because you don't know how to manage them, because you're afraid of them. Embrace them. We are all hurt. We are all imperfect. We are all in pain. Manage it and your life will be better.

We'll be right back.

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