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Cuomo Prime Time

Trump Hits Biden on Mental Acuity; Trump Questions Biden's Faith After Tear-Gassing Peaceful Protesters to do Bible Photo-Op; Third Congressman in a Week Tests Positive. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired August 06, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: We didn't get your questions answered tonight. The conversation continues at cnn.com/coronavirusanswers. The news continues right now with Chris Cuomo.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. Thank you, Anderson. I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to Primetime. Now, we had assumed the President was refusing to help us with testing because he was making a political calculation. But regrettably, we may have been wrong. Today, this President gave us reason to believe that his judgment may not just be bad. It may be impaired. Did you hear this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He's going to do things that nobody ever would ever think even possible. Take away your guns. Destroy your Second Amendment. No religion, no anything. Hurt the Bible, hurt God. He's against God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Those are the rantings of someone shouting at the sky and hoping for spare change. A man responsible for my and your family really believes that a political opponent is trying to hurt God and hurt the Bible, whatever that means. I mean did he find that wisdom in that 2 Corinthian part of the good book that he made up. If Trump wants devoutness to be a measure, remember what he knows about the Bible

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: 2 Corinthians, right, 2 Corinthians 3 17. That's the whole ballgame. Where the spirit of the Lord, right, where the spirit of Lord is there is liberty. And here there is Liberty College but Liberty University. But it is so true. You know when you think and that's really. Is that the one you like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Was always looking for what you like. But he's the only Christian I've ever known who says he's never needed God's forgiveness. He's the only Christian I know who has almost never been seen attending a service. But the time has come to look past his faith. It is time to look at this man's behavior through the lens, not just of a man who simply lacks moral agency, but perhaps basic cogency. This man wants to talk about hurting God, when he gassed Americans exercising their First Amendment rights to protest injustice in America.

Remember, the head of the Joint Chiefs had to apologize for even being there for that scene. They were protesting injustice that is anathema to Jesus's message. Injustice that Trump denies even exists in this country. And remember why he did it. For a photo op. Holding a Bible which he was asked about and answered this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that your Bible?

TRUMP: It's a Bible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: It's your Bible. It's a Bible. I mean is this about being devout or just dumb. He doesn't know whose it is. He doesn't know what's in it. He certainly doesn't know how to live by the message. But he wants to talk about being a good Christian, a man who puts kids in cages because he likes the message it sends. I don't think though that this is just about faith. I mean I really believe. It is time to take a look at his fortitude. Listen to this attack on Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Did you ever watch Biden where he's always saying the wrong state. It's great to be in Florida. Florida. No, it's Ohio. I love the state of Iowa. Sir, sir, it's Idaho. He does it all the time. Something going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Something going on. He looks like he's melting. That's what's going on. I mean if he really wants to apply that standard. If that's what you want to do, let's do it to him. This is from today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And to avoid liability, shifting production to Thailand. And to Vietnam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Thailand. Hooked on Phonics much. The TH goes as just th as in Thailand. Maybe it was a Freudian slip the word, thigh. I don't know if it's about phonics or basic brain function. And by the way, I give him a pass. T-H-A-I that could be kind of tricky there if we're a one off.

But this man messes up words more than any sober talker I've ever heard. Look at this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When they gaze upon Yosemite towering sequoias

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: You talk about the whole ball. 2 Corinthians, the whole ball game 3:17. Yosemite, are you kidding me. Yosemite, twice. Did he really just declare Yosemite, a park only for Jewish people. At least he's embracing the minority. Let me ask.

[21:05:00]

Is Yosemite Park found in Thailand? And when he does say a place correctly, should it matter that when he says the place, it's not where he thinks it is?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I love Concorde. Oh, Concorde. You know how famous Concorde is? Concorde, that's the same Concorde that we read about all the time, right? Concorde. I love Concorde.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: People behind him. He's in Manchester. I mean, is there something going on, I mean, has he awakened to reality here by saying it about Biden? Is he really revealing something about himself? This is the man who congratulated the Kansas City Chiefs on their Super Bowl win for representing the great state of Kansas, also known as Missouri. I'm sorry, Missouri. That's OK. I could still be president.

Look, the question, why is this happening with him? Is it what he puts in his hair and on his face? Is it seeping into his brain, devouring his intellect, taking reason prisoner? And those oranges, I was a tart one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And I hope that this investigation now, which is finished, it's totally finished, no collusion, no obstruction, I hope they now go and take a look at the origins, the origins of the investigation, the beginnings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Origins, origins, oranges, origins, should the President of the United States know the difference, should he see the spelling of Thailand? And no, it's not Thailand, should he know that a very famous park is not Yosemite. I think they're pretty fair questions, certainly the President does. If this comes down to a battle with Biden about mental acuity, I don't know that that's a race he wants to run. There very well could be something going on here, even though this President is desperately trying to prove there isn't and this is desperate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Then you go, person, woman, man, camera, TV, they say that's

amazing. How did you do that? I do it because I have like a good memory, because I'm cognitively there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Biden has confirmed he hasn't taken a cognitive test along the lines of what they give people to see whether or not they are suffering from Alzheimer's. Here's his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: No, I haven't taken a test. Why the hell would I take a test? Come on, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Look, the President has raised a really important issue. I had assumed that he wasn't doing what is so obvious in this pandemic, what is being told him by the people around him on the task force, Health and Human Services, Department of Homeland Security, people coming to him saying rapid testing. Brett Giroir, I need more help with rapid testing. That's going to be the future.

Seeing the UK, they're not doing great. I know, but apples-to-apples on speed of testing. They're ahead of us. I had assumed. That it was about a political calculation, but what if the truth is this President doesn't have the ability to calculate?

Looking through that lens, maybe that's why all this crazy talk comes out of his face. Maybe that's the answer. Let's bring in senior political commentator Jennifer Granholm to be the judge. When you think of it, Governor, are we dealing with somebody who is just bad at the game or maybe not on their game?

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think he is not - he has such a deficit of mental acuity, you can see this in his political strategy--

CUOMO: Yosemite.

GRANHOLM: You can see in his COVID strategy. Yes, he just--

CUOMO: Yosemite.

GRANHOLM: I mean, at some point in his life, was he able to understand the difference between, Yosemite and Yosemite? Maybe, but it's just not there now. And the fact I mean, Chris, you started out by saying he just threw.

[21:10:00]

This up, this thing about, that Biden's going to hurt God or something crazy like that. That's so crazy that stuff like that politically is dynamite because it ends up backfiring when-- CUOMO: If Joe Biden said Yosemite Park or Thailand, his favorite part of the chicken, he would be done with you guys. You would put him through the wringer. You would make him pick free VP to go with him. You would expend it somehow.

GRANHOLM: All you have to do. I mean, everybody saw that Axios interview two days ago, I mean, he can't even understand dishonest charts. He can't understand that, yes, we have the highest death rate in the world as a percentage of population. He doesn't understand - I don't know, does he not understand or is he just willfully blind? He's not--

CUOMO: Or can he not understand? Can he not understand? Because, you know, look, I mean, you and I are, our different worlds here in terms of surrounding the White House. But I have to tell you, when I talk to people about, did you prep him for this? Who wrote that for him? Because he was reading at that time.

They consistently say, listen, we tell them what is and what isn't. We know what the information is. They'll get mad. They'll be like, I don't need you to tell me what the case count is, Chris. So, yes, but he just said, and they always go quiet. And I think it's a legitimate question whether or not it should be part of your guys campaign, that it's not just that he's not good at the job. Maybe he's not up to the job.

GRANHOLM: Well, it's a classic case, another example of projection. We know that he's got mental problems in terms of his (inaudible) clouds everything. And it obviously he's got some deficiencies as well that have been brought on maybe by age, maybe by pressure. But I tell you one thing, Chris, this today, I'm kind of grateful that he went over the top like that about Joe Biden, because it gives Joe Biden's camp the ability to talk about Joe Biden's faith.

I mean, anybody who knows him knows that he is a lifelong practicing Catholic and that he's deeply faithful. In many ways, he reminds me of your father and the ability to pull faith into policy and caring for the least of these. Joe Biden walks the talk. He carries a rosary with him every day. It's just part of his DNA. So, the fact that Trump would raise this, as in sort of this flailing, I can't imagine that this was part of his written script, that he's just trying as hard as he possibly can--

CUOMO: Or he's delusional.

GRANHOLM: Is just another sign of this--

CUOMO: I mean, my concern is, I've got two issues here. One is, I'd always assume that he was just lying, defying reality, and denying it for his own benefit. But maybe he doesn't have a grasp of it. Maybe he really does think he's religious. Maybe he really does think these things that he says. But look, I think your problem for Joe Biden is not - I don't think he's faithful. It's that you lefties, this will be the argument, you've turned. I don't care what his faith is. You guys want to kill all the babies. I don't care what his faith is. You guys want people to be able to

marry anything they want, whenever they want and decide their gender, whatever they want. And that's not what God wants. Those are the Christians that Trump's going for.

GRANHOLM: How many times did Jesus say the word gay and how many times did Jesus say the word abortion? Zero, zero on both. And so, this policy of being able to care for the least of these and Joe Biden's theme about restoring the soul of America is evocative of his own faith. When asked about a scripture, Joe Biden can easily say the 25th chapter of Matthew. What does Donald Trump say when asked about his scripture preference? He can't find one. Or if he does much later, he says, an eye for an eye, which is something that Jesus revoked in Matthew when he said turn the other cheek.

So, I mean, this notion about evangelicals following Donald Trump because of abortion or gays, I mean, those are not people who are going to be voting for Joe Biden and Joe Biden being pro-choice. But I can tell you this, that people who care about Joe Biden's authentic faith and who can see him this morning, he was speaking to the Baptist Convention just as Donald Trump was saying that he wants to hurt God.

CUOMO: Right.

GRANHOLM: I think you're right that Donald Trump has lost it. He's lost it, and now he's going over the top in his desperation. And that's what we're seeing.

CUOMO: If that still assumes that there's an intentionality there, that is a function of intelligence. This sound I wanted to use earlier.

[21:15:00]

In the piece, but he gave us too much to work with. But remember this moment with this President?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And finally, I asked the leaders of the region, political and religious, Israeli, and Palestinian, Jewish, and Christian and Muslim to join us in the noble quest for lasting peace. Thank you. God bless you. God bless Israel. God bless the Palestinians. And God bless the United States. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: I had concerns then that I didn't understand where he - why he sounded like that, it sounded like he couldn't speak. And then another time we heard him speak not long thereafter and he was like sniffing every four seconds. We couldn't figure it out. I mean, look, if he wants to make hey, Joe Biden's too old. Hey, Joe Biden has had problems. Hey, Joe Biden does want to put out of his medical records, which by the way, should be an issue for both of these guys. I think he should have some kind of independent body looking at anybody over 60 or so when they run for public office. But I don't make the rules. But I wonder if this is something that Joe Biden should make an issue.

Like, you want to talk about which one of us is sound of mind, let's do it.

GRANHOLM: Yes, I think if Trump continues to do this, I think that's a good idea. But I do think that the reason why Donald Trump went dark ad wise over the past week is because he had been trying that tack, mental acuity, all of that and it hadn't worked. And so now his strategy is to try to yoke Joe Biden to the Far Left. And that's the new strategy.

However, today, while he talked about Second Amendment and guns and God, and so that would have been on message. He also raised this issue of Joe Biden's mental acuity, too, and that I mean, it's just not a winner. What Trump is doing is going deep into his face rather than lie, and how deep you can go and get enough votes is really a question. Even the evangelical, even the Christian community, I think in many places, not all places, but in many places, is having second thoughts, not just about his mental acuity, but about his policy acuity.

CUOMO: I've got to tell you; I mean talk about deep into the base. He's got to be careful about getting into deep, deep trouble with these questions because, his health is another thing that he's playing with. It's another thing where he brought up Fugazi doctors and have the guy who is now running for Congress saying all these wild things without showing us real data. Then when they did show data, it showed that there are issues to be looked at with his heart.

If he wants to play this game about who's more sound of mind, I don't know how it's going to play out for him, especially after performances like today. The question is, how can your side figure out how to capitalize? Jennifer Granholm, Gov., it's always good to see you.

GRANHOLM: Always great to see you, Chris. Thanks.

CUOMO: All right, now, as if we needed more proof that the pandemic is a problem, we have another congressman testing positive for Coronavirus makes three in one week. We have the Governor of Ohio who was just on last night. He is now positive for the virus and I wish him well and his family. I hope the governor is largely asymptomatic. And whatever he does have, he gets through quickly. The people there need him at his best.

Up next, we have GOP Representative Rodney Davis here to talk about his own diagnosis, what he makes of what he's up against and what we're all up against, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:20:00]

CUOMO: For the third time in the last week, a member of Congress tested positive for Coronavirus. This time, it's Representative Rodney Davis, Republican from Illinois. The congressman joins us now. I'm glad to see you're able to join. Just tell us, how you're doing?

Your wife was also tested. She's negative. Thank God. For now, that can change. You've got to be careful around her. I'm sure the doctors are telling you that. But how are you doing?

REP. RODNEY DAVIS (R) ILLINOIS: I'm doing great, Chris. I feel fine, I have no symptoms, my temp actually dropped and I'm kind of looking forward to hearing what you went through so that I can know what to possibly expect.

CUOMO: No, no, no. God forbid you go through what I did. Hopefully, you have symptoms on the lighter scale. Some people get it. How long did you have the fever?

DAVIS: It was just yesterday, I take my temperature every morning and every night with the same thermometer, it always registers me a little bit low, around 97 max. And yesterday, just before I got up, I wanted to go work out and I took my temperature and it was 99, and I called my wife. I said, something's up. 99 would get me in any medical facility. Government building would be fine.

But for me, it was different. I had a bunch of public events planned today and tomorrow, I wanted to be sure. I went to a rapid scan facility, got tested and shockingly to me, I came back positive.

CUOMO: Good. That's perfect. And God willing, it stays that way. Your wife doesn't get it and we're done. And hopefully you have the antibodies. They don't fade too fast because you didn't have that strong case. So now it goes to what we learn from this. Your ability to get a test back quickly means everything.

My biggest concern right now is that we're lost in this morass of math about testing. It's not how many tests, it's how you test and how quickly you get the responses. Don't you think this country should be going all out on the national level to get people test results as quickly as you've got them?

DAVIS: I like that comment you just made the morass of the math of testing, that's what I think confuses a lot of people. There are rapid scan machines like I was able to use because Walgreens invested in a facility in my district.

[21:25:00]

Near my house. I was able to go in and get a test and get results the same day. So many areas don't have that. We've got to expand those opportunities. And instead, what happens is you have people wanting to be naysayers on certain types of technology.

Let's get the testing modalities out to everyone. That's one reason why I've tried to make sure we led in bringing testing to Capitol Hill, not just from members of Congress, but for the staff, for the essential workers, for the media that are roaming around the Capitol, giving news every day. This has to be done and it's been held up by the Democrats in the House of Representatives, unfortunately. But today, I hear there might be some movement just reading news stories, and I hope that's the case.

CUOMO: Listen, I don't want to go down to political rabbit hole. I don't even think it should have to do with Congress other than you guys being outraged and calling for it. This is something that the federal government can do without you guys. This is what Brett Giroir is in-charge of in the executive branch. We haven't even heard the President say what you just said. He has never said. We need to have rapid testing capabilities to get quick turnaround everywhere in this country. And I'm going to make it happen, should he.

DAVIS: Well, I'll be honest with you, we've worked with the White House. They offered rapid scan testing capabilities to Capitol Hill, for the Capitol Police, for the architect of the Capitol--

CUOMO: Yes, but not for the rest of the country.

DAVIS: But you know what, he is using those rapid scan machines. And I certainly - I know that the White House and the folks in the federal government like they're using those machines and its diagnosing members of Congress who are about to get on Air Force One with the President.

CUOMO: I know.

DAVIS: The modalities ought to be able to be expanded elsewhere--

CUOMO: But then why doesn't he try to make it happen? It could win him the election. Rodney, if he were to put his arms around this and say what you're saying right now, I've given the states a chance. Illinois, decent state, big problems in Chicago, they're not getting it done. I'm going to make it happen for the whole country. What Rodney Davis got, what we do for the people in D.C. everybody's going to get access there. I'll give money to the companies. I'll use the Emergency Production Act. This is MAGA in action. Why won't he even say it, let alone do it?

DAVIS: Well, maybe he will. I would like to see more production. We can't just talk about testing for diagnoses either, and we've expanded testing under this President's leadership. We're working with the administration, working with our state leaders, we've been able to see testing capabilities for diagnoses expand exponentially.

But we've also got to begin to plan for, as you said earlier, testing for antibody presence or testing for at least the presence of COVID in those who may never have known that they were infected. And I'll tell you this, Chris, if I wouldn't have taken my temperature yesterday morning, I never would have gone in because my temp dropped to 98.6.

CUOMO: That's exactly right. That happens. It drops. It goes up and down. And people don't want to wait. You know the problem in Illinois, you have people and I'm not just blaming Illinois. You guys are not special. New York, every state I talk about and I ask, and I report on, they have waiting anywhere from one day, two days to 10 days, 12 days, 14 days. It's not a death sentence necessarily, but it is a death sentence for reopening. And I don't think it's going to get done. Congressman, if you guys

don't start calling for it, not left and right reasonable from the White House and the executive, they can make it happen fastest.

DAVIS: Well, I certainly hope we can continue to increase our testing capacity. I like the rapid scan tests. It made me able to keep people safe that I would have gone and seen personally and instead during my open office hours yesterday and today. I did it virtually. I certainly hope Abbott and other rapid scan testing companies are able to continue to expand.

CUOMO: I'm with you. But we both know Rodney, hope's not a plan. The President hasn't even said what you've said in this interview. Hey, look, good for you for saying it. I know its tough times in partisan politics, and I know that testing has become some kind of boogeyman for this administration.

But if he would at least say what they're doing in the UK, I'm going to get it done here, six or eight weeks. We'll figure it out. I'll get those rapid tests, then our kids can go to school. Then people can go to work the right way because you will have data on a daily basis by the hour, by an hour and a half. He hasn't even said it. Will you call for him to say more?

DAVIS: I certainly hope that we can expand the rapid testing, but Chris, we can't stop with just diagnostic tests. We have got to get a true statistical analysis of the impact of this disease.

If the CDC is stating that there are tens of millions of more people who have likely had COVID-19 but had no idea. We've got to figure out a way to get them tested to understand what the true impact of COVID is on our country.

CUOMO: But that's rapid testing too.

[21:30:00]

DAVIS: We need the media to begin asking for that type of testing capability. And we need investment at all levels of government to make that happen.

CUOMO: But you know that the biggest pocket and the most power is on the federal level. Nobody can make it happen faster in Illinois, your state, than the President. Your governor can't get it done. They don't have the money. They don't have the logistics, they don't have the buying power, they can't even go to these manufacturers and say, I'll give you an output contract, let me get all the tests you can make there, they're going to say no, it's too expensive for us.

We have a hard time getting the reagent. That's why the governors are getting together because of the absence of leadership. I really believe, you talked about the House and the Democrats. I blame all of you. You guys should be shouting at the top of your lungs and thank God your lungs are good because you weren't as sick as I was. That we need rapid testing, Mr. President. Make this happen for us. He'll be a hero. DAVIS: Well, I will tell you, thank you for standing up with Kevin McCarthy, Tom Cole, and I and many who have asked for testing capabilities on Capitol Hill, I think it's a travesty. We have so many people, even when Congress isn't in session that don't have access to what I have, and my constituents have here in Illinois.

CUOMO: I'm with you. You guys have to ask for it to happen. I haven't heard about any Democrat not wanting rapid testing. I've never heard Kevin McCarthy say anything about this or some really ham fisted, horrible defenses of the President's performance in this pandemic. And my feeling is, I don't want to look at the past. I want to look at now and going forward. Rodney, if my kids can't get back in school because we can't get anything near real-time data, we're going to lose another generation when they could be moving ahead. They're going to be moving back.

DAVIS: I fear, what is if we're going to do remote learning across this nation, how is that impacting students being able to get to the next grade level along with mental health issues?

CUOMO: Big problems, big problem. But, I don't know where you are in the kid game, but, with my kids, I would never say - I can't send them to a school if nobody can give me any assurance, they're going to be able to tell me who's sick and who isn't there. I just can't do it in good conscience. I don't care if it's two days a week. I don't care if it's one day every other week. If you can't tell me what the situation is there, I don't know how I get my mind around doing that.

The difference is rapid testing. You tell your friend Kevin McCarthy, if he wants to come on this show and call for rapid testing for everybody, I'll give him a half an hour to do it.

DAVIS: Well, I appreciate that, but I certainly will get you the letters that we sent months ago offering assistance not just from the White House who was offered assistance. And this isn't just about members of Congress. This is about the essential workers in and around Capitol Hill and making sure they had the same access.

CUOMO: I'm sure they did. You guys definitely took care of yourselves in D.C. I'm talking about the rest of the country.

DAVIS: We can care about ourselves. There is no testing. We need to make sure that testing is available for the media, for the staff and the essential workers around Capitol Hill. They deserve the same access that all of us have in our districts like I was able to get access to, just like all of my constituents can do. And thank you to Walgreens for opening up that testing facility in Springfield, Illinois.

CUOMO: Congressman, look, we agree on this. There's a lot more that could be done. And if the President leads the way, we're going to get there a heck of a lot faster. I am happy that your fever's gone, brother. I hope you stay healthy and I hope your wife never gets near it.

DAVIS: Me, too. Thank you very much, Chris. CUOMO: All right, take care. Congressman Rodney Davis, Illinois. All right. Now another story of COVID. Now, this one I know very, very well. Well, you know, my next guest very well, Alyssa Milano. Now, she and I are friends. You've seen her here on the show. But Alyssa Milano found out something that she is believed was true for months. But she couldn't get a medical answer.

So, many people were in Alyssa's position. They think they had it. The test still make sense. They can't get the test. They can't figure it out. We lived it together. And she finally found out that she was right. She has antibodies. She did have Coronavirus. They kept telling her she didn't, she couldn't breathe. Everything hurt. I mean, she took it a lot better than I did, which was a point of no source of pride while I was going through it.

But two Coronavirus tests later, both negative. Look at her. You've ever seen anybody go through it and look like that? Look at me. Look at her. Those are the faces of the two different realities of COVID. But what she went through and what she now knows and what questions it raises for her, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:35:00]

CUOMO: I want to be very quick about something here, Kevin McCarthy, the majority, the minority leader in the House, he never called for rapid testing for you. He called for it for people on Capitol Hill. We don't need them taking care of themselves. We need them taking care of you and getting rapid testing for the entire country. That's what he has to call for. He never has. I invite him on to this show to do so. I would be happy to hear our President has never said what the Republican Congressman from Illinois just said on this show.

He has never said there should be rapid testing, quick turnaround like the UK for everybody. And he's going to make it happen. He went out there with a show and tell once with rapid testing, but he never did anything about it. That's the truth. All right. More truth. Never told you this before.

So, I'm sick, right? And I'm in bed, and there were several people who reached out and really kind of changed my relationship with them, really kind of showed themselves to care about me in a time when I needed it. All right. Now, one of them was taking care of me, even though she was also taking care of herself at the same time. And it was actress Alyssa Milano. All right.

[21:40:00]

So, I'm sick. She's sick. We talk to each other all the time during this period. She had all the signs, OK? She had fever, she had aches, she had pains, her lungs. She had that thing on her face. All of the symptoms, they kept telling her she didn't have it. She thought she was going bananas, OK? And I saw her like this. OK, this is not a fake picture. I saw Alyssa like this on a regular basis. How she was still able to do all the stuff with the podcast and the political activism. And she's got the kids running all over the place, I don't know.

But she was able to balance it all. She was weeks sick. She had a machine helping her breathe. She real. I'm telling you; she was up against it. She was worse than I was. And she kept getting COVID tests and they kept saying negative. She took an antibody test. It was also negative. We could not figure it out.

She kept saying to me, just doesn't make any sense. How can we and I have the exact same experience and I don't have it and you do. Guess what? The star just revealed, she's positive for COVID antibodies. So, one thing has to be true, right? She had it. So now she's calling attention to the flaws in our testing system and the severity of this crisis. And she joins me now doing me a favor coming on the show. And I invited on to be with Alyssa and me infectious disease expert Dr. William Schaffner to help with the questions.

So first, Alyssa, I've said this to you, but I want everybody to know when I'm appreciative to somebody. It's no secret. Thank you for being such a good friend to me. Even when you were sick. And I felt that you gratuitously had the symptoms when we were both sick. And at the time, I thought you were faking it just because you're competitive. But you were right. You were right all along. And now that you know, you had it.

ALYSSA MILANO, HOST, SORRY NOT SORRY PODCAST: I had every single symptom, Chris, literally every symptom I had in the beginning, I had the tummy ache and a low-grade fever. It never got really high like yours. I had a headache like I had never felt before, and I was able to get a test. And that test at that time came back negative. It was a nasal swab. It was very - it was in the beginning. So, I don't know when they were talking about the swabs being contaminated. I don't know if that was what was going on. I have no idea.

Then, as you do with this illness, I start to feel better. And I'm not saying like I feel great, but I'm starting to feel a little bit more human. And I'm like that for maybe three or four days. And then it hits me. I feel like there's an elephant sitting on my chest. I feel like my airways are closing in my throat. I just was so achy, my joints hurt.

I had confusion. I had sadness. I had like these bouts of just of crying and it was just sick, like I have never felt before. So, I speak to my doctor again and I say I'm not getting better, I am getting worse. I cannot breathe. And he says, because at this time this was March. He says, what do you have in the house? I said, what do I have in the house? I mean, he said, do you have an inhaler in the house? I said, no. He said, do you have a nebulizer in the house? And I said, yes, because Milo has asthma. My eight-year-old has asthma.

So, I did the nebulizer and he said, I want to see you again. I want to check your lungs and blah, blah, blah. And I went and got another nasal swab and he listened to my lungs. The test comes back negative. Now, mind you, this is when California is in lockdown, thank God, because I know my mother, she's an Italian mother. If both of those tests came back negative, she would have been in my bed with me, cooking for me, making me, trying to make me feel better. And she would have gotten sick, but we were locked down, thank God.

So, once I started - and that was about two weeks. And I mean, we were talking, it was the scariest time of my life and I bed share with my daughter. So, there was that going on in my mind of like, oh, my God, am I exposed--

CUOMO: That was terrible because I could never curse, doc, every time I was talking to Alyssa, she always had the kids. So, I had to clean up my speech, which was my only luxury at the time, was my ability to use profanity. Go ahead.

MILANO: So, two negative tests. When I start to feel better, I then go to a doctor and I get the finger prick antibody test, which we now know is incredibly faulty. That came back negative. Now, in the middle of this, my best friend who I traveled with, I did a movie in Portland and that's where I think I've got this in March and.

[21:45:00]

He's sick. Six tests. First, he can't get a test because he has no fever and he wasn't - right. So, it was that time when you couldn't find tests. Then he takes six tests, all negative. He takes an antibody test, positive then goes to Florida to see his parents, takes another antibody test, negative, then comes back here, antibody test positive. So to me, this is such an incredible, incredible failure of leadership and how our government should be our communal caretakers - if they have this fiduciary commitment to take care of us and we have a communal responsibility to do everything we can to not spread this.

And I am so - I am so - I vacillate between anger, anxiety, and just complete sadness because this was so hard. And Chris, I have means, I have things that people at my disposal that I could contact and the whole time I'm thinking, the people that don't have insurance, how are they going through this? The people that can't find tests, how are they going through this? The people in detention, the people who are incarcerated that have no masks or hand sanitizer, how are they going through this?

And I listened to Congressman and all of them are driving me nuts right now because this is not political. Please. There is a public health crisis. One American is dying every eight seconds from COVID- 19. This isn't about individualism. This is about communal responsibility during a public health crisis. And I didn't want to make this interview political. But politics is personal. And I think it's worth pointing out that while Republicans, since he was going to blame everything on the Democrats are unwilling to help people struggling who cannot work right now with $600 a week.

They have no problem sending 2.2 trillion on tax cuts for wealthy families and large corporations and stock buyback. So that should tell you where their priorities are. And it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking because there is no guidance, as you know. And I said to you yesterday, and I'm so glad you have a doctor here. Hi, Doctor. Thank you for being here.

CUOMO: We're going to get to him after the commercial. Well, go ahead, finish your point.

MILANO: I don't know what to do next. I don't know if I get - and I still have symptoms. I still have heart palpitations and shortness of breath and rapid heartbeat. My hair is like falling out.

CUOMO: Let's do this. First of all, if all hair that falls out, put in a bag because I want it as part of my donor pile. Second of all, we'll take a quick commercial and then let's put the questions you have about what to do next and why we got here to Dr. Schaffner, because he knows this stuff as well as anybody does. That's why I want to bring him in tonight.

My friend Alyssa Milano and I--

MILANO: Great. Thank you so much.

CUOMO: Will be back right after the break with Dr. Schaffner to figure out why did this happen to her? How do we keep it happening from somebody else? What does it say about where we are and where we need to go? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:50:00]

CUOMO: Alyssa Milano joins me and Dr. William Schaffner. Alyssa and I were COVID cousins, she was very good to me, even though she was very sick herself. And doctor, you heard her story and we were trying to figure it out in real-time. How does somebody that sick keep testing negative for the virus and antibodies and then test positive for antibodies so much later?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT: So, Chris and Ms. Milano, it's good to be with you. Ms. Milano, I'm sorry about your illness and I'm so glad that you're recovering. That's comforting.

MILANO: Thank you, doctor.

SCHAFFNER: So, the answer is several things. First, let's look at the timing. You can do timing, whether of the nasal swab test or the blood test, and just miss either the virus with the nasal swab test or the production of the antibodies, if you test too early. So that's one thing we'd have to look at the timing.

Another thing is that the early blood tests that were released in the United States by the Food and Drug Administration were not very accurate. The FDA has gotten much more rigorous now, and the blood tests that are on the market now are much more rigorous and reliable. And then the other thing that you both have been talking about, which I agree with a thousand percent, is that we're still not anywhere near providing enough testing for all of our needs in the United States.

We need to have them widely available and we need the results to come back quickly, so they can be useful both clinically as in all situation and also for public health purposes, so we can trace the contacts and get them tested and then quarantine. So, we clearly need a national testing strategy. We need a national strategy for all of the control of COVID, and we've been waiting for that for a long time.

CUOMO: A quick follow-up, the last question to Milano. Why isn't the answer the rapid testing where someone like Alyssa gets tested every day, even if it's 40, 50 percent accurate, but if she's tested every day and gets results in a few hours, you've got a much better chance of catching it than the way she did it, don't you, doc?

SCHAFFNER: I would think so, yes, for sure.

CUOMO: Alyssa, what's your question for the doctor?

MILANO: My question is, there is no guidance on what to do once you recover. I don't know if I should go get my heart checked.

[21:55:00]

My lungs checked. There's concerns about vascular system, like, do I need to go get a panel for all of that? I just - I have - there's no guidance because this is all so new. So, I'm wondering what you would advise for someone who has gone through this to do once they are starting to recover?

SCHAFFNER: Well, Ms. Milano, you're exactly correct. You provided the answer. We're writing the textbook as we go along. So, there's no plan that we can tell you. However, you still have symptoms, and I think you ought to be seeing your primary care physician on a reasonably regular basis, you and he or she can decide what that appropriate interval is, because there are indeed people who are in a long recovery phase. The virus has gone from their body, but the inflammation in their body is still working its way out. And it flows from some of your symptoms. You're in kind of that position.

CUOMO: Yes, ready for the term sequelae to enter your life, Alyssa. That's what the doctor is going to talk about, a Latin word that means something that follows because they don't know anything about this either. Dr. Schaffner, thank you very much. Alyssa Milano, you are family to me. You took care of me at a time when I needed it, even though you were sick. I will always be here for you. That's why you get - able to ask questions on my show. Damn it. You take care Alyssa Milano.

MILANO: Thank you.

CUOMO: Doctor, thank you. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END