Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Deaths in U.S. Due to COVID-19 Rise; Schools and Parents Across U.S. Considering Whether to Reopen Schools in Midst of Coronavirus Pandemic; Rep. Lauren Underwood (D-IL) is Interviewed on Biden & Harris Making Case Against Reelecting Trump. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 13, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Nearly 1,500 deaths yesterday, double the death rate from early June, 56,000 new cases. Again, that's not a good number. And until recently you can see why. This chart, there had been a decline in the chart there had been a decline in the number of new cases. That had been some good news. We'll see what this one-day rise means.

The CDC director warns if Americans don't adhere to public health measures the United States could see the worst fall in history. Overnight the White House did issue new safety guidelines for schools, but it's still not requiring masks. By our count, more than 2,000 students and teachers are now quarantined across the country after returning to reopened schools.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: The new Biden-Harris ticket promising to lead America out of this pandemic, making the case that where we are today is all a result of President Trump's failed leadership and incompetence. The president responding this morning in a rambling interview, resorting to the same tired adjectives to describe Senator Harris, calling her nasty and angry, and also warning that, among other things, a Biden-Harrisad.. would result in no airplanes and also, John, no cows.

BERMAN: All right, we want to begin, though, with the pandemic and the single highest daily death count since May, the deadliest day of the summer. Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. And Sanjay, I know that deaths are a lagging indicator, which means that people get sick, they get hospitalized, and they die. So we're seeing the results of things that may have happened two, three weeks ago. But with the daily case counts still at 50,000 is there any reason to believe that the death toll is going to drop precipitously anytime soon?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, sadly, John, no, there's not. And you may have some fluctuations, ups and downs, but the overall trend, I think, we're starting to see this plateau again. The lowest case count we've got, you may remember, John, was first couple of weeks of June, right around 17,000 to 20,000. That was the lowest. That was the best that we have done really in this country. But we have been on this rollercoaster ride since then. The problem, John, as well, you know this, is that these testing

numbers are still so hard to interpret. You may have more tests that are going on in some places, fewer tests that are going on in other places, and at the same time higher positivity rates that are also happening in some of these places.

Why does that all matter? Because if we're still not testing enough into the community, doing enough surveillance testing, we still really have no idea how bad this problem is. So you're starting to run into the situation where it is a lagging indicator, but you're starting to see a shorter -- a smaller delta. You're seeing more hospitalizations with respect to the overall case counts, more deaths with respect to the case counts because we're testing primarily people who are symptomatic and those positivity rates are going up. So there's concern here, John, and the models suggest, as you know, that 1,000 people on average may die every day for the rest of the year. That would make it around 300,000 people dying possibly in the year 2020.

HILL: It is sobering to say the least. Sanjay, when you talk about the positivity rate, one thing that really stood out to me, and I know that we follow these, both nationally and in individual states to hopefully get a better picture of what's happening there. But we look at the national positivity rate, and I think we can put this up on the screen, there was this massive spike, I believe it was yesterday as I'm looking at the chart or the day before, where it just went really high, almost up to 17 percent. When we see a spike like that, is there something to take away from it, or is it simply this is a one-day snapshot that we're seeing?

GUPTA: I do think in these situations you have to consider that as a one-day snapshot, and there's so many variables that go into something like this. You may have had a significant percentage of people who are symptomatic coming in that day who are more likely to have -- end up being positive for this. Even though that testing data, as you well know, Erica, could be a reflection of a few days prior because in many places it's taking 72, 96, even five days -- 72 hours, 96 hours, or five days to get your test results back.

So it's tough to make sense of that, but, you know, we have been looking at the trends very carefully here at CNN, and the clear message is that the positivity rates are still too high in many places around the country, not everywhere, but certainly where I live, Texas, Arizona, the same states that we have been talking about for some time. They still -- we keep talking about the fact we're doing more testing, we're doing more testing. That's right. But we're still not doing enough testing in many of these places. So that number -- that one-day average, we'll keep an eye on it. We saw that as well. But we want to see how that plays out over the next several days.

BERMAN: And the positivity rate and the transmission level in Georgia where you are in Fulton County still so high, you wrote in an op-ed, Sanjay, that you are not going to send year kids back to school, at least not yet. And there's a different element to this also that affects us, I think, around the country. We have talked about how kids transmit the virus, and there's been some evidence that they transmit it just as much depending on what age they are. And you have been looking at some charts, Sanjay, which indicate just how much of a risk that can be to some of the older people that these kids may live with.

[08:05:19]

GUPTA: Yes, that's exactly right. I think people have sort of bifurcated this issue about kids, and understandably so. We think about this all the time. On one hand, I think it is true and it has held up to be true since we looked at the early data from Wuhan, that kids seem less affected in terms of getting very sick or dying from this. The numbers out of Wuhan show that kids weren't getting as sick, and that has remained true. Overall percentage of deaths in this country, if you were to look at the youngest age groups, they're far less than one percent. They comprise far less than one percent of deaths.

But the idea they can essentially be carriers and transmit this virus I think is very concerning. And, John, 10 and older we know transmit just like adults. I think that what we're increasingly seeing is kids that are younger than that also transmit the virus very, very robustly.

Take a look at this chart. I don't know if you can read this one at all, but basically this is given a breakdown into what I was just talking about in terms of hospitalizations and death by age. Pull this down. If you can't read it right now on the screen, pull this off the CDC's website because I think this is very instructive. The comparison group in this chart was 18 to 29-year-olds. But they basically say if you're 65 to 74, and you contract the coronavirus, you have a 90 times higher chance of dying of this as compared to someone who is 18 to 29.

It breaks it down by all these various age groups. It is important to consider just how big of a difference there is based on age in terms of hospitalization and death. We have been looking at these numbers for a long time, but now we have a much clearer indication. That's one half of the issue. The other half of the issue is people can still transmit the virus. You can be perfectly fine, have no symptoms whatsoever, and still transmit this virus really no matter your age. I think that's becoming abundantly clear as well.

HILL: And that is becoming, I think, that is moving to the top of the list, too, as people consider what to do with reopening schools. Also with us this morning is Michael Hinojosa. He's the superintendent of a Dallas Independent School District. And you said recently flexibility is the name of the game. You have had to pivot a little bit in the plans that you have put out. You have been making changes. You've heard very clearly from the teachers' union there about their concerns. Where do you stand this morning? How important is everything that Sanjay just pointed out in terms of how children can transmit this virus?

MICHAEL HINOJOSA, SUPERINTENDENT, DALLAS INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT: It's hugely important, and we pay attention to people like Sanjay and the information that they give us. That's precisely why we moved our date. We were supposed to start next Monday, but we have moved that to September the 8th. The numbers in Texas and in Dallas county are getting better, but we still don't know exactly where we're going to end up. And yes, our employees are scared to death, and so we're trying to balance that. We have another meeting today with our school board to give them the latest information. We have 50 people that have signed up to speak and public comment about this matter.

So it's a huge matter of public concern, and we have to be safe because, as Sanjay just pointed out, even if the students aren't getting sick, they can transmit the disease to elderly members of their family. A lot of our students live with their grandparents, and that's just the fact of life in the urban situation.

BERMAN: Superintendent, you've thought so much about this, you have written so much about this. And I know obviously you feel it's preferable to have students inside the classroom. I think that's what everyone wants if it can be done safely. You also just mentioned flexibility, and that gets to the question of planning ahead. What do you do and when do you do it if you start to see things turn south? You look at Georgia, for instance. They opened schools in some places. We saw the pictures in the hallways in one of those schools. The cases started to rise. So if you do allow students back in, what's a going to be your measurement? When will you then back off again? How do you handle that?

HINOJOSA: Well, we're not medical professionals, and we have to depend on the county health department to give us that indication. They have a chart that they're preparing to tell us when it might be appropriate for us to back off. You're right, we haven't seen out kids since March, and there are a lot of mental health issues that they're struggling with, and learning is better in person, but only if it's safe. So we have a lot of things we have to juggle.

The parents don't have to tell us until August 25th whether they're choosing at-home or in-person, and that impacts all of the logistics, about the hallways, the transmission, how students arrive on the buses. But they don't want to make a decision until they know what the quality of instruction is going to be. So we're almost in a catch 22.

[08:10:00]

But anytime we make a decision to pivot, if we start, we have been told we could have five-day rolling shutdowns as we have cases. But we have to have the health professionals tell us, yes, you need to pivot now. Flexibility is the name of the game, and you better have an alternate plan. And that's why operation connectivity is so important that we have broadband access to our students and families while they're in this pandemic situation.

HILL: The decision on when to pivot and what to do if there's an outbreak, I think that plays into a lot of parent's decision-making what the plan will be as they decide whether or not they will send their child back for in-person learning. These are some of the many things that you looked at, Sanjay, you and your wife and your girls as you decided as a family what you would be doing this fall for your daughters. And ultimately you did come to a decision. And I'll let you tell us what that was and how you got there, but a lot of people are looking at the exact same factors that you did.

GUPTA: Preface by saying it's not an easy decision. This is, frankly, as a family probably one of the toughest decisions I think we've ever had to make because it hits on everything. The science, the public health, the emotional factors, the superintendent was just talking about it. Our kids have been going stir crazy the last several months, so I don't want to minimize that at all. That's been a significant issue.

But I think that there were a few things. I live in the county where the virus is spreading and the growth of that spread has been increasing. The positivity rates are high, meaning that we're still not testing enough. And so at the time when we pulled the kids out of school we were, frankly, in a much better position than we are now in my particular community where I live. The numbers have increased and the pace at which they continue to increase is also going up. So those are all factors.

But I think you bring up a really -- perhaps the critical point, which is getting kids back into school, just saying, hey, we're going to start school, that's a decision anybody can make. But the idea how you keep them in school and what the triggers are for pulling them back out is crucial.

So I think it's just going to be hard. Frankly, even in places that are in better shape than us, I think it's just going to be hard. First of all, school is not going to feel normal no matter what. Even if you're going back in person it is going to feel like a very different experience. And you've got to have to constantly pivot. We're basing it on if you see an increase in cases, if you see an increase in positivity rates, all of the basic health measures, we are using those as triggers. For us, we're not going back to school right now even though that is an option for the girls. The numbers just did not -- the numbers are very clear here. Ultimately as hard as this decision was, it was a clear decision, a clear-headed decision.

BERMAN: Sanjay, thank you. Thank you for sharing what you and your family decided and how you went through that process. And Superintendent, we thank you for being with us. And just thanks for the work that you're doing. I know you're trying to help so many kids, and you have for years and years. We appreciate it.

HINOJOSA: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: This morning, Kamala Harris taking aim at President Trump's leadership, and the president firing back with personal attacks, new personal attacks this morning. We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:47]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack Obama and Joe Biden. And then, like everything else he inherited, he ran it straight into the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Senator Kamala Harris placing the blame for the coronavirus response squarely on President Trump, and laying out the case of the Biden/Harris ticket can turn things around.

Joining me now Democratic Congresswoman Lauren Underwood.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for being with us today.

I want to ask you about the Kamala Harris selection, because I was struck by an op-ed of Donna Edwards, a former member, former African- American member of Congress from Maryland, she wrote this morning. She said: I thought it didn't matter whether or not Biden picked a woman of color for the ticket until it did. Now I can say out loud that Senator Kamala D. Harris, a black woman, a woman of color, a daughter of immigrants, is former Vice President Joe Biden's choice to help rid the White House of Donald Trump and build a better future. And it feels awfully good to say.

I wonder how it hit you if you had similar feelings?

REP. LAUREN UNDERWOOD (D-IL): Oh, it sure did. There was a joy that was deep down in my spirit that just erupted. I couldn't wipe the smile off my face.

I had a chance to get to know Senator Harris through our work on maternal health in the Congress and she is fearless. She is tough. She's a visionary and she is ready to lead our country forward.

BERMAN: It's been interesting to see how the president has reacted to the selection because he hasn't really talked about Senator Harris on issues of substance. He's going after her for being mean, being nasty, things like that -- labels that he typically reserves almost exclusively to women.

I want you to hear one of the things he said this morning.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And now you have sort of a mad woman, I call her, because she was so angry and so -- such hatred with Justice Kavanaugh. I mean, I have never seen anything like it. She was the angriest of the group and they were all angry.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: My god, that was -- you know, 12 seconds he used the word mad or angry four or five times. When you hear that, what bells go off?

UNDERWOOD: Well, we have heard the president rely on, you know, racial stereotypes. He certainly brought out this nasty characterization for women in the past.

But at the end of the day, Donald Trump knows that he's losing the American people, he's losing the popularity as which continue to see this virus rage across our communities, record high unemployment. And, you know, the American people want a source of hope. They're looking for a plan and someone who's willing to do their job and lead our country during a time of tremendous challenge.

Obviously, the president has really struggled to step up to the task after many, many, many chances and so, now, we have great leaders in Joe Biden and in Kamala Harris who are focused and who are ready and who are stepping up.

BERMAN: I'm curious about how you respond to that question. I'm wondering if that's the advice you would give to the Biden/Harris campaign and other Democrats, or you and your own race, which is instead of necessarily delving into the sexist, racist types of way that the president addresses this, just turn around and say, pandemic, say 1,500 people died in the last 24 hours.

[08:20:07]

UNDERWOOD: Well, you know what? Here's the -- the facts are in every community across this country, people are surrounded by challenge. They're surrounded by loss and surrounded by death.

Here in the Midwest where I live, you know, we have seen this virus claim thousands of lives in our community. This is not an "other people problem". It is very near to our experience.

And so when we have the president constantly trying to deflect blame, trying to shirk his responsibility and unwilling to come to the negotiating table and deliver for the American people, I think that we have nowhere else to turn but to COVID and say, Mr. President, will you please help us out? Mr. President, will you please do your job? And if you won't step out of the way and let the people who are serious about governing, do the work.

BERMAN: You are, of course, a medical worker who worked at HHS. You have first hand experience in this. You did just talk about there to a certain extent the stimulus talks which have all but fallen apart. You're a freshman member of Congress, you're facing re-election which means it's tougher for you to get re-elected just by definition, if you look at the numbers in other people.

How does it affect your race that the Congress and president haven't been able to sit down? Do you want Democratic leaders to go the extra mile to try to make something work?

UNDERWOOD: Well, you know, in these negotiations, Speaker Pelosi has been very firm, saying, meet us at the middle. We are willing to drop our package and cut some spending if they would be willing to add an additional trillion dollars of spending.

And the issues that we're talking about are issues that are essential to the American people. The people American are hungry. Food insecurity is rampant. In our bill, we have over $60 billion to meet this need.

You know, one in five American families are experiencing hunger right now. And the Republican plan offered just a couple hundred thousand dollars to address the need across the country, it's insufficient. And so, you know, when I think about the continued delays in processing COVID tests, the complete lack of funding for treatment in this country and the way that the administration has not solved this problem with controlling the virus in our communities, we know that we need to come to the solution and we need to come to an agreement quickly.

I think that the talks will continue. I'm very optimistic that we will come to a solution, come to a deal and I will be back in Washington soon to vote on a package. But the sense of urgency that we feel here in the Midwest is very high.

BERMAN: You know, it strikes me, this just occurred to me, you represent a suburban Chicago district and this is the type of place that the president has also been talking about in, you know, barely -- I say coded, it's not coded at all. He uses the term suburban housewives are nervous about low income housing.

When you hear that, what do you hear?

UNDERWOOD: Well, he's tried to divide us from our neighbors. But here in my community, our neighbors are trusted people of our community. They are not our enemies. We are not scared of our neighbors and we certainly are not rejecting diversity.

You know, the Midwest, suburban communities like mine, this is where the 2020 elections will play out and Donald Trump is losing. You know, he won my district in 2016 by four points. And in this election in 2020, my congressional race isn't about him at all.

And so, you know, I am optimistic, I am hopeful that, you know, in 82, 81 days, whatever it is, until Election Day, we're going to have change at the top of the ticket.

BERMAN: Congresswoman Lauren Underwood, we appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for being with us.

UNDERWOOD: Thank you, John. It's good to be with you.

BERMAN: All right. Another college conference pulled the plug on fall sports because of the pandemic, but other schools moving forward. Up next, two students who are leading the charge on protecting their fellow athletes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:03]

BERMAN: Like all sports this year, the college football season is going to be one like none other. The Big 12 conference announced plans to play for now, while two of the other power five conferences are holding off.

Joining me now, two PAC-12 football players who have been leading the push for coronavirus protections, Stanford University's Treyjohn Butler and University of Utah's Nick Ford. Guys, thanks so much for being with us.

Nick, if I can start with you, just so we can lay out, do you approve of the PAC-12's decision not to start the season?

NICK FORD, GUARD, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH: You know, it's kind of disheartening that they did choose to end the season and everything because that's not the fight we were pushing for. Do I approve of it? It's a hard question to answer. Do I think it was the right or the safer call? I would, you know, agree and say yes.

BERMAN: And I want to note, Nick, you want to be a doctor. You are interested in medicine. This is something you think a lot about.

So you think it was the safer call. Why?

FORD: You know, just looking across the conference and not seeing, you know, a standard third party medical procedure being instilled throughout the schools, you know, leave a lot of risk for, you know, faulty tests and incorrect tests being administered to the kids. I mean, there could be someone who comes up a as a negative test even though they're positive and go out and play in the competition and begin to cross contaminate between the teams. So, there's a lot of things that can go wrong within that.

BERMAN: So, _, what about you? I know you have a condition, something that could be considered an underlying condition. So what your concerns throughout the summer for your own health?

TREYJOHN BUTLER, CORNERBACK, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: I --

BERMAN: All right. We seem to have him frozen for a second here. Nick, one of the things you have been vocal on, you think maybe safety calls for you not to be playing, but you have been critical of the PAC-12 not for the decision not to play, but for everything that led up to this moment. Why?

END