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CDC Now Forecasts 195,000 U.S. COVID Deaths by September 12; Postmaster Denies He Changed USPS Policies over Election Mail; Pence Claims, We Dismiss Conspiracies, as Trump Peddles Conspiracies. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 21, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: That is the staggering number of U.S. deaths from the coronavirus that the CDC is now projecting by September 12th, just three weeks from now. The agency is also signaling those deaths could start to decline in 13 areas around the country.

And in a new interview with the Journal of American Medicine, CDC Chief Dr. Robert Redfield says he expects that decline to start as early as next week thanks to more Americans taking precautions, like wearing masks and practicing social distancing. But he warns that everyone has to stay vigilant, as some regions, notably the Midwest, are not showing signs of improvement.

Redfield's warning comes as the virus becomes a growing threat at U.S. colleges, universities, prompting officials to step in, try to crack down on students' behavior. Now, 64 of the nation's largest school districts will be starting the year remotely after the Dallas superintendent announced public schools in his city will be remote until at least October 6.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL HINOJOSA, SUPERINTENDENT, DALLAS INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT: Not everybody is going to be happy with that decision, but it is what it is and it's the context that we are in.

This issue is not going away. We are making an announcement today. But in two weeks, we're going to be revisiting it about where we go in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: We're going to have more on the state of the nation's schools in a moment.

And as scientists race to develop a vaccine, Johnson and Johnson says it's posed to conduct the largest COVID-19 trail to-date. It has merely 60,000 participants starting next month. Vice President Mike Pence offering a very optimistic outlook on when we can expect a vaccine this morning on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: We think there is a miracle around the corner.

We believe it's very likely that we'll have one or more vaccines for the coronavirus before the end of this year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: We should point out the head of Operation Warp Speed, the Trump administration's effort to quickly produce a vaccine, said he expects one to be widely available next spring or early summer. If something was available sooner, it would go to frontline workers and essential workers.

More now on the interview with the CDC director, who says up to 20 percent of the population has likely been during the pandemic. Our Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, joins me.

So what is Dr. Redfield basing that estimate on?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's a little bit unclear what he's basing that estimate on and it's also unclear what it would mean. But let's take a look at what Dr. Redfield, the director of the CDC, is saying. He is saying that from March to May, we had 2 million officially diagnosed cases of coronavirus, but he thinks there were more like 20 million.

He then went on to say that he thinks between March and August, so, basically, from the beginning until now, that there have been 5.6 million official cases, he thinks it's more like 30 to 60 million. That's a much bigger number, as you can say.

Not entirely clear how he's getting that number, but even more importantly, it's not clear what that means. I mean, in some ways, you might look at these numbers, Anderson, and say, this is great. If we have all this big chunk of Americans who have been infected, maybe it means that they're immune and that will help get us to herd immunity. But it's not clear what it means to have already been infected with COVID. We know that antibodies might fade and so that could mean that you could get infected the second time.

So, not really clear if this is reason to sort of be happy because it doesn't mean that we're building immunity. It's unclear what it means.

COOPER: Right. It is a little confusing because, I mean, I remember months ago in New York, Governor Cuomo is saying that they had tested, done sample testing for antibodies, I think, on the street or on various locations. And I think in the 12 percent to 13 percent range of New Yorkers, I think, at the time. Again, it's off the top of my head.

And I seem to remember Sweden did after, you know, the way they reacted to the virus, they tested for antibodies and I think it was in the 7 percent range, which surprised a lot of people in Sweden. So I'm not sure how he's getting this number. COHEN: Well, so they're -- the Governor Cuomo numbers that you mention, I remember that too, and you are getting it right. And sort of we're in that ballpark. And the thinking here is that that test looked for antibodies. And so it might have missed some people. So, in other words, somebody might have been infected, they had one of these tests done in New York State and it was negative. It said, oh, no, you never had COVID, when, in fact, the person did, it's just that the test they did didn't pick up on it.

So it is possible, that estimate in Sweden, that the estimate in New York State, that they were -- those were low-balling the number of people who'd actually been infected. That is possible. We just don't know. But, again, it still brings us to, do we care? Does it matter? So what if a larger proportion of our population has been infected? It doesn't mean they're immune. Their immunity might have waned since that time. We just don't know.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, there's so much for so long now, which is, again, adding to the concern. Elizabeth Cohen, I appreciate it. Thanks very much.

Many colleges and universities, as well as students, tried beginning the fall semester on campus and in-person.

[13:05:00]

The attempt was short-lived. CNN Correspondent Evan McMorris-Santoro has more.

Evan, how many states are reporting problems?

EVAN MCMORRIS SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Universities are opening across the country and they're finding that preventing coronavirus outbreaks is very, very hard. Colleges in at least 19 states have reported outbreaks. That's led to some quarantines and in some cases the cancelation of in-person classes.

Students are being chastised for their behavior both on and off campus as it relates to social distancing. On Thursday, after a video emerged of Penn State students gathered in a group, only a few of them wearing masks, the president of that school sent a stern message. He said, do you want to be the one responsible for sending everybody home? Anderson?

COOPER: Evan, thanks very much.

The infection rate on those campuses could be in part to what are called super spreaders. It only takes one person infected with the virus who attends an event, like a party, and ends up transmitting the virus to a group of people.

CNN's Health Reporter, Jacqueline Howard, is here with a new study about super spreaders. Jacqueline, tell us about the findings.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Anderson, a new study shows that super spreading plays a big role in this pandemic, especially in rural areas. The study looked at five counties across Georgia, four were metro counties and one was in rural Georgia. And the study found that the rural county had a disproportionately large outbreak compared to other more populous counties.

But, overall, Anderson, about 2 percent of COVID-19 cases were directly responsible for 20 percent of all infections in that study and younger people under age 60 tended to be the main drivers of super spreading.

Now, the study also found that stay in place orders worked best to bring cases down. Anderson?

COOPER: Jacqueline, thanks.

With close to 250,000 coronavirus cases and the number of deaths approaching 5,000, Georgia is one of the hardest-hit states right now in the U.S. It's not a mandate, the White House has designated teachers as essential workers. This could loosen quarantine rules for Georgia educators by requiring teachers to remain in classrooms even if exposed to virus.

Craig Harper is the Executive Director of the Professional Association of Georgia Educators. Thanks so much for being with us.

I know you are opposed to this measure. Just tell us about why.

CRAIG HARPER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GEORGIA EDUCATORS: Well, Anderson, I think all the information that you just highlighted with those reports is an indication of why we are concerned about that. We do believe educators and students do want to get back in the classroom as soon as possible but they need to do that when it's as safe as possible to do that.

And because of the issues with asymptomatic spread, if essential worker status were enacted and educators are coming back into the classroom immediately after known exposure, we're just afraid it's going to continue Georgia's trajectory with -- as a hotspot and with increased cases. And I know that's something we would all like to see resolved.

So we think there are other ways to handle this where we can address the need to get back in the classroom as soon as possible but not through the essential worker designation and coming right back into the classroom.

COOPER: So if this essential worker designation went through just sort of what's a case study, and what would it actually look like, say, the student turned out to have tested positive in a classroom, what would then happen?

HARPER: As I understand it, even close exposure would not necessitate quarantine, with that designation but our Georgia Department of public health has guidance right now that would require that person to be quarantined for a period of time, either 10 or 14 days before they'd be able to come back. The essential worker designation would allow them to come back much quicker than that and continue to work. COOPER: And the governor in Georgia has yet to make a decision about it. If he decides to enforce it, what can you do?

HARPER: Well, we would continue to advocate for moderated measures and we're working with some of the other education associations in Georgia, leadership associations, which includes superintendents are the most concerned about this issue and their concerns of having to shut down schools on a rolling basis because of the number of staff who are exposed and are not able to come back to work under current department of public health rules.

And so we're working with them and working with the governor's office very soon to try to come up with some other moderate designation or enhancement of this designation that would ensure that anybody that's exposed is clear and able to come back and they're not asymptomatic and would continue to spread COVID-19 throughout a school or community.

COOPER: Craig Harper, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. We'll continue to watch what happens there.

HARPER: Thank you.

COOPER: The postmaster general grilled by senators today over accusations he's trying to suppress voters. See what happened and how he answered questions about his conversation with President Trump.

[13:10:02]

Plus, the vice president responds to the president's embrace of what the FBI says is a potentially dangerous conspiracy group.

And another a top Trump administration official at Homeland Security resigns. Hear why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Today, postmaster general and close Trump ally, Louis DeJoy, was taken to task over his cost-cutting changes to the Postal Service just months ahead of the election. Democrats and some Republicans demanded answers and assurances that every vote cast by mail will be counted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS DEJOY, POSTMASTER GENERAL, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE: There has been no changes in any policies with regard to election mail for the 2020 election.

SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): There will be no post office closures or suspensions before November 3rd?

[13:15:02]

DEJOY: I confirm post office closures was not a directive I gave -- that I gave. That was around before I got it. There's a process to that. When I found out about it and it had the reaction that we did, I've suspended it until after the election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do support voting by mail?

DEJOY: I do. That's an interest -- I think the American public should be able to vote before mail and the Postal Service will support it. So, I guess, that's yes.

SEN. MITT ROMENY (R-UT): Do you have a high degree of confidence that virtually all the ballots that will be mailed, let's say, seven days before an election would actually be able to be received and counted?

DEJOY: Extremely highly confident. We will scour every plant the day, you know, the each night leading up to Election Day. We're very, very confident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Miriam Bell is President of the Charlotte Area Chapter of American Postal Workers Union. Miriam, thanks for being with us. Does what you heard today from postmaster general square with what you have been seeing on the ground?

MIRIAM BELL, PRESIDENT, CHARLOTTE AREA LOCAL 375 AMERICAN POSTAL WORKER'S UNION: Absolutely not, absolutely not.

COOPER: Explain that.

BELL: Well, here in charlotte alone, we have had seven mail processing machines removed. These are typically called delivery bar code sorters. And we've also had one flat sorter machine. These removals began around July the 1st and they have continued even up until day before yesterday. and the machines were on a scheduled timeline of just to continually remove them. We have had emails provided to us that substantiate these issues.

These machines, the flat sorter machines process about 21,600 pieces of mail per hour. The delivery bar code sorter machines process up to 39,000 pieces of mail per hour.

COOPER: Let me ask you here, because the postmaster general was asked about these machines and I just want to play what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETERS: Will you be bringing back any mail sorting machines that have been removed since you have become postmaster general? Any of those come back?

DEJOY: There's no intention to do that. They're not needed, sir.

PETERS: You will not bring back any processors?

DEJOY: They're not needed, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So are those needed? I mean --

BELL: Yes.

COOPER: I assume removing them was the argument given was that it was obsolete, they weren't necessary.

BELL: Oh, no, absolutely not. These machines, if you consider just one of these delivery bar code sorter machines, it processes up to 39,000 pieces of mail per hour. If you average only a 16-hour processing day, and mind you, these plants run 24/7/365, but if you take those 39 pieces of mail per hour, that comes up to 624,000 pieces of mail per day per machine. If you multiply that times seven days, that is almost 4.5 million pieces of mail per week that cannot be processed, per machine.

COOPER: So why -- I mean, what was the reason for removing them?

BELL: We were not told. The union is supposed to be informed of things like removal of machines and accessing (ph) of jobs, et cetera. I have reached out to the local plant manager, Eric Dola (ph). I have received zero response. I have not gotten any type of notifications. I mean, we are looking at close to 50 jobs here.

COOPER: We just lost your audio. Miriam Bell, I appreciate your time and all you do. Thank you very much.

Just in, New York lawmakers demanding answers on how many people died in nurses homes during the pandemic. See CNN's investigation.

Plus, once a vaccine is developed, how long will it take for life to return to normal?

And a former official in the Trump administration endorsing Joe Biden, who joins me next, one why he says the president is terrifying and which T.V. host he says acted as the defacto chief of staff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:00]

COOPER: Well, this week, the president embraced the conspiracy theorist group, QAnon, a group the FBI has labeled a potential domestic terror threat, the group the president says he appreciates. That group believes among other things that a number of Hollywood celebrities and politicians, Democrats, are members of a satanic cult who drink the blood of children to live longer and are running a sex trafficking -- international sex trafficking ring.

Vice President Pence was asked about QAnon this morning on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The president says they love America. So how do those beliefs embody a love of America?

PENCE: Well, you said the president seemed to embrace it. [13:25:01]

I didn't hear that.

BERMAN: He said they love America, Mr. Vice President. They love America.

PENCE: I don't know anything. I heard the president talk about he appreciates people who support him.

BERMAN: Do you believe they love America? Do you believe they love America?

PENCE: I don't know anything about that conspiracy theory, John, or people that are involved in it.

BERMAN: Given how much it's been in the news, how can you not know about it at this point?

PENCE: Well, honestly, John, I just -- I don't know anything about that. I have heard about it. We dismiss conspiracy theories around here out of hand.

BERMAN: Will you dismiss it?

PENCE: I just did, John.

BERMAN: No, you didn't.

PENCE: We dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: He says, we dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand. That is obviously not true. Here is a list of just some of the president's more high profile conspiracy theories that he has touted without evidence or baseless reality. Birtherism, President Obama spying on him, Uranium One, unemployment numbers, the JFK assassination, American Muslims celebrating 9/11 in New Jersey, death tolls from disasters, widespread voter fraud, for which his own commission couldn't find evidence, suggesting a T.V. host murdered somebody, Jeffrey Epstein's death, windmills, climate change, vaccines, migrant caravans and social media companies plotting against him.

I'm joined now by Miles Taylor, a former Senior of Department of Homeland Security Official in the Trump administration. He has endorsed Joe Biden for president.

Miles, do you ever hear Vice President Pence push back and raise concerns about the president in your time with him? Because, obviously, Vice President Pence is used to normalize things the president has said or kind of make it seem like it's really not something that's foremost in the president's mind when it clearly is.

MILES TAYLOR, FORMER SENIOR DHS OFFICIAL UNDER TRUMP: Look, Anderson, first of all, thanks for having me on. I feel bad for Vice President Pence. He is constantly put in this position, an impossible position, where his boss has said something completely contradictory to what Vice President Pence has to come out and say.

I'm sure I've got friends over in the west wing of the White House that are watching you and your program today and they know when I say this, that this is a frequent and constant problem that they face. Of course, the president believes and embraces the conspiracy theories because we would have to deal with it every day.

I mean, the cleanup work of a crazy tweet or him acknowledging any one of those conspiracy theories that you just went through. I mean, Puerto Rico's death toll, for instance, I mean, that was another example of something that we had to deal with.

So, yes, Pence is put in a very difficult position. I don't want to speak about the vice president's private engagements with the president. My focus here really is on Donald Trump and I've said from the get-go, I'm going to try my best to really focus on the president and his character and not so much the people around him.

But it won't surprise you when I say a lot of people in private are silent around the president, all right? When he makes an absurd claim, whether it's in the Oval Office or an event that we would be at with him, far too often, people would sit there with their mouths closed and they would sort of just laugh or shift uncomfortably in the seats when they probably should have spoken up. A lot of the people who used to speak up are largely gone from this administration.

COOPER: Yes. We witnessed that firsthand when the president, you know, suggested at the podium that there should be experiments on our citizens with injecting bleach into them to possibly cure them of coronavirus or treat them of coronavirus and he actually, you know, turned to Dr. Birx who was there, another official, I think, it was from HHS was there, public health official. And Dr. Birx clearly was just, you know, silent and looking down. And the other official said, oh, yes, we'll essentially look into that.

I was fascinated by the president when he was asked about QAnon, finally, because it's obviously been percolating for a long time. His first response was, they say very nice things about me, which I thought was so telling, which is something he says a lot. That seems to be the lens through which he views anybody, any group or any individual. They say nice things about me so, therefore, I'm not going to say terrible things about them as long as they say nice things about me.

TAYLOR: Sure. I mean, Anderson, look back at Charlottesville. I think that we just marked the third anniversary of Charlottesville. And at the time, administration officials, myself included, were astounded that the president embraced some of these radical right-wing elements when he should have condemned them. But we all know now why he embraced them, because these are people who expressed support for President Trump and he's so drawn to that. He doesn't really care what they say.

I mean, this is not a one-time thing. We are at the point now where this is very, very emblematic of Donald Trump's character and the QAnon episode is just one more episode in a long line of episodes that extend before Charlottesville and since then.

COOPER: Just one more thing on QAnon.