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New Day
Two Dozen Fmr. GOP Members Back Joe Biden Ahead of RNC; White House Defends Trump's Embrace of Qanon Conspiracy; Protests in Wisconsin after Police Shoot Black Man; Video Shows Wisconsin Police Shooting Black Man Multiple Times; Fox News Secrets Revealed in New Book "Hoax;" Aired 7:30-8a ET.
Aired August 24, 2020 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[07:30:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Developing this morning, more than two dozen former Republican members of Congress have announced that they are endorsing Joe Biden for president. This is a Republicans for Biden campaign that's launching today. Jeff Flake, Arizona Senator, headlining it to a certain extent. This news comes on the first day of the Republican convention.
Joining me now, CNN political commentators, former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent who was part of this Republican for Biden campaign. Also with us, former Republican Congressman Sean Duffy who is not at all part of this campaign.
Charlie Dent, I want to start with you. You announced last week that you were voting for Joe Biden. This is a big rollout with two dozen of people like you, Republican members of Congress, who say they're doing it. What's behind this? What's the significance?
CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well John, there are a lot of former Republican members of Congress who are unhappy with the direction of the party. We understand that political parties are not static.
They're dynamic, but when they change they should change of the better. And I think it's fair to say that they are concerned about this party becoming so Trumpian frankly driven by the power of one man. I think there's a lot of concern about the nativism, the protectionism, the isolationism.
There's - these are very concerning attributes, and just the other, in fact, John, the reason I wrote my op-ed last week when I did is after the president said that he called the woman in Georgia, Marjorie Taylor Greene, a rising star, this is a QAnon, 9/11 conspiracy theorist bigot. I mean, really? I mean, these people should be driven from the party, and I think a lot of us are concerned that the leader of our party is embracing some pretty extreme type (ph). BERMAN: So Sean Duffy, would you rather have QAnon or Charlie Dent in your party?
SEAN DUFFY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well let me say this. I don't think - I don't think Charlie Dent is going to move the numbers in Pennsylvania or Jeff Flake's not going to move numbers in Arizona.
I mean, this is going to be a campaign that's going to be based on issues, and I think the biggest issue that we have right now is in places like Wisconsin where I come at your from is so many Democrats that used to vote for Democrats and Obama over the last 10 years have moved to President Trump, and a Charlie Dent or a Jeff Flake endorsement won't move those numbers at all. If you recall in 2016 there were 75 diplomats that came out and said we're not going to vote for Donald Trump.
BERMAN: Can you say that again?
DUFFY: That doesn't matter at all. I've -
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Can you say that again?
DUFFY: -- and listen, I know, but - yes. I think what's interesting is Republicans love Donald Trump because Donald Trump loves Republicans and he's fighting for issues that Charlie fought for, which is, you know, lower taxes and better trade and pro-life. Issues that matter to the Republican base is what Donald Trump is fighting for, which is why these endorsements I don't think will mean anything in regard to voters when they go to the polls in November.
BERMAN: Does it say anything, Sean, to you, though, that QAnon is maybe closer to where the president is than Charlie Dent?
DUFFY: But if we - but if we play that game, John, I know it doesn't because Ilhan Omar is an anti-Israeli, anti-Semite. She's part of the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanction movement. She's a Democrat Congresswoman from Minnesota, and that's to say does Joe Biden believe in BDS? I mean, you can't tar and feather parties with some radical extremes on both sides. So listen, I think you can't play that game. Otherwise we're responsible for the positions that everyone in the party takes, which is I think really unfair.
BERMAN: Charlie, go ahead.
DENT: Hey, Sean. Look. Sean, these QAnon people are crazy. I think we can all acknowledge that, and I can tell you by the president embracing that candidate he has put Republican members in swing districts at risk because Democrats will tie that QAnon candidate to more mainstream candidates. It is going to cause problems. Hey, we do the same thing.
Republicans will tie other Democrats to the Squad, right? That's their turnaround. We do that. They do that, but to suggest that this is not a problem I think is - I think, Sean, we can surely agree that there's no place for QAnon in either political party. I mean, a 9/11 truther 10 years ago had somebody come out as a Republican candidate, a 9/11 truther. They would have been ridiculed, mocked, and driven from the party. Now we call them or the president calls them rising stars.
BERMAN: Sean -
[7:35:00]
DUFFY: But Charlie, you and I both know this. We served in Congress together. We never heard of QAnon. I haven't heard of QAnon until a week ago. I don't know what they are. I think what's more telling is you have radicals like ANTIFA that are burning cities, that are rioting, that are pulling people out of their cars and beating them up, and you don't have Joe Biden who actually condemns ANTIFA that's destroying American cities. That's what's concerning to me.
So you have one group that no one has heard of but another group that's destroying America, ANTIFA. They're Biden voters, so Joe Biden doesn't call them out. That's what's more concerning to me and that's the group that more Americans know about the radical side, and -
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: John -
DUFFY: -- I think that's what we should (inaudible) instead of a group that no one has ever heard of.
DENT: Sean, Sean, we have - I agree with you. I am absolutely opposed to ANTIFA and all that they represent and these radicals who are torching our cities and frankly the Democrats are vulnerable on public safety right now because many of their elected leaders at a local level have an appalling indifference towards public safety. We agree on that, Sean. But the main point (ph) -
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DUFFY: Those are Democrats, too, Charlie.
DENT: What's that? Well look -
(CROSSTALK)
DUFFY: Those are Democrats. Charlie, finish.
DENT: I understand. I understand, but Sean, we have to talk about broader principles. Look, I did support the tax reform and the tax cuts. I am not with the president on trade. And frankly, a lot of this - a lot of this campaign is really not so much policy-driven. It's about normal versus abnormal, stable versus unstable. I mean, the president's sister came out the other day.
I mean, not by choice, but I mean, you - all these things, these attributes about the president that have caused so many people such great concern, I mean, listen to the Mattises, the Tillersons, and the Kellys. People who work for him tell us there is something seriously wrong. I mean, what part of that don't you understand?
DUFFY: Well what I understand, Charlie, is the impact that these policies have had on people that live in Wisconsin, in Minnesota, in Michigan, and in Pennsylvania where you come from. Where we've had three and a half years of great economic growth. People's unemployment went down. The wages went up. Opportunity expanded. That's what people cared about. And yes, Donald Trump was the one who was driving those policies, so you can't argue with the results.
And by the way you talk about China. On trade if we don't do - if we don't deal with China and stop them from lying and cheating and stealing from us, we don't have a future for our children, so God bless Donald Trump for pushing back and fighting China. Joe Biden didn't even mention it, but it goes back to the point that if you care about radical groups, Joe Biden hasn't called out the group, hasn't' condemned the group that's burning our cities and beating people up. That's what everyone hears about. No one knows -
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BERMAN: Joe Biden - Joe Biden has spoke - Joe Biden has spoken out -
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DUFFY: No, he hasn't.
Biden: -- against the violence in the cities. Joe Biden says he doesn't want to defund (inaudible) defund the police. You know, that, Sean. You also know what QAnon is. I don't buy anymore anyone who comes on TV, especially someone as smart as you who comes on and says they don't know what QAnon is. That argument is done and I'm not quite sure why it continues to be a talking point. Charlie -
DENT: Hey, Sean. Look -
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DUFFY: Because - but (inaudible) -
(CROSSATLK)
DENT: -- let's talk about China. Let's talk about China just for one second. Look, if the president was serious about taking on China, he wouldn't have imposed tariffs in the name of national security on Canada, Mexico, Europe, and South Korea. He never built the coalition with our partners to take on China in a multilateral way, which is what he needed to do.
Everybody agrees we should be fighting China on intellectual property theft and coercive technology transfers and dumping of metals. We all get that and we're all for it, but he went about it the wrong way. You need a president who can actually build a coalition to take on China. We're aren't going to be able to do this by ourselves. We are going to need partners, and this president he rejects allies.
Hell, he insults them, Canadians, Germans, you know, the Danes. I mean, how do you insult the Danes for Pete's sake, but I mean, this is - this is what's happened instead of he doesn't embrace allies, and that's part of the reason I said I'm going to support Joe Biden. I mean, I'm not asking for a lot. I just want a president to be somewhat normal, embrace allies, and build relationships. It's really not about (inaudible) -
(CROSSTALK)
DUFFY: Normally -
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DENT: -- right or wrong -
(CROSSTALK)
DUFFY: Normally you have a Democrat Party that is advocating for the Green New Deal. Where I come from the Green New Deal takes away cows in America because they have flatulence, so you won't have dairy farmers in places like Wisconsin and Michigan and Minnesota. These are crazy policies. (inaudible) -
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DENT: (inaudible) Green New Deal -
(CROSSTALK)
DUFFY: -- John (inaudible) just to - just to be clear - I didn't interrupt you, Charlie. Just to be clear Joe Biden has never mentioned ANTIFA. Joe Biden has never condemned ANTIFA. He said I condemn violence but has never condemned ANTIFA -
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Because Charlie - because Charlie, there's also -
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DUFFY: -- (inaudible) and the media has never asked him the question - the media hasn't asked him the question about ANTIFA, so he hasn't referenced those Biden voters (inaudible) violence -
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: You're trying - you're trying to equate ANTIFA - you're trying to equate ANTIFA to QAnon, and it's just not apples-to-apples. It's just not apples-to-apples at all.
DUFFY: Well it is because -
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: It is not apples-to-apples in any way -
(CROSSTALK) DUFFY: It is. BERMAN: -- and ANTIFA isn't any kind of organization the way that QAnon has not spread in this insidious group doing this. Look -
(CROSSTALK)
DUFFY: (inaudible)
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: -- I'm going to let Charlie speak for himself here, but it's not -
(CROSSTALK)
DUFFY: But they're looting.
BERMAN: -- it's not apples-to-apples. Charlie, I want to give you the last word.
DUFFY: It is.
[07:40:00]
DENT: Look, Sean. I think our party is facing a reckoning. If the president loses reelection and if the Senate were to flip, we are going to have to have a serious adult conversation about what this party should stand for. After the 2012 election when Romney lost, and autopsy was done by the RNC and they made some pretty worthwhile recommendations about how the party has to expand its base, and that has not been happening under President Trump.
We have to appeal to people of color, minorities, younger people, women. We're having problems. We simply can't double down on a base that looks like you and me, Sean. There aren't enough people like us, who look like us to win elections going forward. So I'm looking forward to that conversation, Sean, and we'll have that after the election and before then I'm sure.
BERMAN: Sean Duffy, Charlie Dent, this was quite a conversation this morning. I appreciate you both - both you getting up and joining us.
DUFFY: Thanks, John.
DENT: Thanks.
BERMAN: All right, protests breaking out overnight in Wisconsin after police repeatedly shot a black man in the back. The incident caught on video. We have a live report from the scene and new details next.
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[07:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ALISYN CAMEROTA, NEW DAY HOST: Breaking news overnight, Wisconsin police shot a black man multiple times reportedly in front of his children. The shooting, which was caught on cell phone video, has sparked unrest in the area. CNN's Polo Sandoval is live in Kenosha, Wisconsin with the breaking details. What's the situation, Polo?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Alisyn, let me tell you that knowing that the victim actually survived the shooting and is hospitalized, it doesn't make it any easier to watch this video. I have to tell you. It's certainly disturbing, and we'll play it for you in just a few second here so you can see for yourself how the actual shooting happened, but first let me tell you a little bit about what led up to it. It's police that were called to a home here in Kenosha to report of a domestic disturbance.
It's still unclear exactly who initially called police or exactly why, but in the video you will see a man that's been identified by the governor of the state as Jacob Blake attempt to make his was to the driver side of a dark colored SUV. As he makes his way into the vehicle, that's when one of two officers opens fire, and again Mr. Blake is still in serious condition as of last check, and we do certainly want you to see this video for yourself, and again it is disturbing to watch.
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I'll tell you, we're certainly going to be seeking more details because it's important to note that what the video does not show is exactly what transpired before the shooting itself and also why the officer felt the need to use deadly force, but what we do know it's led to tensions here in the community. Those tensions certainly boiled over yesterday.
Behind me you see some garbage trucks that were positioned there to try to block access to some of the local government buildings. Those vehicles, some of them were damaged and set on fire. Riot police, they're still on standby right now through it is relatively peaceful, but there certainly is going to be - there's certainly going to be many questions this morning, John.
A lot of people are asking exactly what transpired, but I can tell you that the investigation itself, Kenosha P.D. taking a step back, handing that investigation over to Wisconsin's Department of Justice. They're going to be in charge of investigating the shooting.
BERMAN: All right, Polo. Listen, please keep us posted. I know there are developments occurring throughout the morning, so I appreciate it.
We have a rare look at the president's one-time favorite TV network, the truth about Fox News and the Fox News presidency as told by insiders. CNN's Brian Stelter with his record-setting, number one, brand new book "Hoax" joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [07:50:00]
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CAMEROTA: A behind the scenes look at Fox News reveals the inextricable ties between the network's most famous hosts and President Trump and how that creates the misinformation that millions of Americans are fed every day. Joining us now is CNN's Chief Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter. He's the author of the wildly successful new book, "Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth". Great to see you again.
BRIAN STELTER, AUTHOR, "HOAX: DONALD TRUMP, FOX NEWS, AND THE DANGEROUS DISTORTION OF TRUTH: You're so kind.
CAMEROTA: Well, it's number one on Amazon, and not only is - does that speak obviously well of you and your writing because it's a great read, but of the insatiable appetite that readers have to understand the Trump presidency.
STELTER: I think that's what it's all about. I know three and a half plus years in. People still want to know how this happened and what is happening, what's going right, and most importantly what's going wrong. And a lot of what's going wrong in the Trump era is this addition to Fox News. It's not like he's watching TV and getting great ideas and learning about the world and being really well-informed. He's being misinformed, and that's the root of the problem.
CAMEROTA: Can you just explain to us your original reporting about how it came to pass that Sean Hannity, a Fox host and right-wing radio host -
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- a college dropout as you point out in here, becomes the - President Trump's, one of his top advisors.
STELTER: Yes, his shadow chief of staff. You know, Hannity was at UC Santa Barbra doing a radio show. He made anti-gay remarks back in the 80s. He now says he regrets that, but back at the time he used that controversy getting kicked off the radio for making offensive comments, he used that to go get a job in a real radio station.
He went to Huntsville then Atlanta, then Roger Ailes found him, brought him to Fox News, and I think what's interesting about Hannity is was the second banana for years. He was behind Bill O'Reilly. He was behind all these other people.
Now in the Trump age everybody else is gone from Fox. Everybody else has left or been fired. Hannity's still there. Hannity's a survivor, and Trump knows he needs him. This is a mutually co-dependent relationship. At the same time, though, behind the scenes Hannity says Trump is a run-on sentence. He acts like a crazy person. I can't get a word in edge wise. Hannity is stressed out about this relationship just like Trump's actual aides are.
CAMEROTA: But I want to talk to you about that because it's even worse than what you're saying here. You have reporting that behind the scenes because Trump calls Hannity all the time and they talk at least once a day, he says he's bat blank crazy.
STELTER: Crazy, yes.
CAMEROTA: That's what Hannity really thinks of Donald Trump. Why doesn't he say that?
STELTER: And this is from more than one source. This is from multiple friends and colleagues of Hannity who I've interviewed for this book. I worked on this for a couple of - couple of years because I feel like the untold story of the Trump era is this Fox addition, and it explains all the - a lot of the wrong headed behavior that's happening. I think Hannity is so focused on his business, on his ratings success he doesn't say what he really thinks about Trump.
STELTER: And how has it taken a physical and emotional or at least mental toll that you describe in the book on Hannity?
[07:55:00]
STELTER: Yes. I mean, you know, early on the Trump years he's vaping a lot. He's gaining wait. Look, I gained a little bit of weight during the Trump years, too. I get it. Like it's been stressful for a lot of people, but he did describe to friends the toll this took on his life.
He also, you know, was going through a lengthy - a very - a long divorce with his wife. It was finally finalized last week - sorry, last year. You know, so there's certainly - I feel like we all day, all year we cover these stories of families being torn apart by Trump, people being stressed out by Trump. It's even true at Fox.
CAMEROTA: I just think that that's really interesting, and I think that we were talking about earlier the impact that President Trump has had even on his own family, you know, the fight now between Mary Trump and the rest of her family -
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Or the Conways. Yes, yes.
CAMEROTA: The Conways. I mean, just behind the scenes the impact as you just explained that it's had on so many people.
STELTER: And I heard it from executive as well. Fox executives say to me I wish the president would watch less TV. I mean, come on, guys. You're the ones feeding him all of this stuff. It happened on day one. It happened on week one with the inauguration crowd size debacle. It was your colleague, John Berman, on CNN who brought it up.
You all were talking about it on New Day. The president was watching. He freaked out, and it ruined the first day of his presidency, but Fox was always the safe space, you know? He tweeted that morning, "Thank you, Fox & Friends", because honestly he was triggered by CNN. He was relieved by what he was hearing on Fox, and I feel like that set the tone for all three and a half years.
And Alisyn, when I wrote this book and I went through it, I had forgotten about some of the insane things that have happened. When you think about how often the president's mislead by a banner on Fox News, how he tweets about North Korea in response to Fox News, it's scary.
CAMEROTA: And one of the things that I think you do so well in the book is spell out Fox News was not really set up as a traditional news organization ever. They don't follow the same rules that news organizations like CNN, like The New York Times have to. And so, therefore there is this misinformation loop, and then it ends up turning into policy that all Americans are affected by.
STELTER: And it matters. And it matters especially during a pandemic. You know, I was on the phone with my editor until midnight last night. That's how it works in most newsrooms. You know, we're both up late dealing with the nuances of a story, trying to get every word right, but at Fox there is not a standards and practices department.
There are not the kinds of checks and balances that exist at most news organizations including conservative organizations. Fox just doesn't have that. It's like they're up there on a tightrope without a net, and that's dangerous. And I have an employee at Fox who spoke to me on the record who says Fox's allegiance with President Trump is a risk to our democracy. Now he has since left the network, but he spoke out when he was still there.
I thought that was really brave of him. Other staffers feel the same way, especially in this pandemic. That's why the book is called "Hoax" because both Trump and Hannity at one point used the word hoax. They were talking about the Democrats' politicization of the virus, but they gave permission to viewers to not take it seriously.
CAMEROTA: And it was early.
STELTER: It was early on.
CAMEROTA: I mean, and that did set the tone. And so, when our thoughtful, sane, smart CNN viewers wonder why they need to read another book about Fox, that's the answer. I mean, what do you tell them about why this is so important for all of them?
STELTER: Because no one's heard from these insiders at Fox. People in and around the network who are in some cases embarrassed, in some cases trying to make excuses for the network, in some cases trying to justify why they work there.
It's a place that's under a tremendous amount of stress due to a lack of leadership. And again, because of the pandemic all of this has been exacerbated. In the same way that the pandemic has changed so much of American life, it's changed Fox as well.
They're on the air, you know, encouraging people to go back to work, but they're not going back to work. Their producers are working from home just like our producers are. The hypocrisy at the heart of Fox, that's what's so disappointing, but it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be this way.
You know, Fox & Friends, these shows, Hannity, he doesn't have to go on the air mislead the public. He doesn't have to go on the air and say hoax every day. Maybe there's a truthier way forward.
(LAUGHTER)
CAMEROTA: Herein lies the place where you and I diverge because it's a business model, right? I mean, I'll just quote to you from the book -
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STELTER: It is a business model. That's true.
CAMEROTA: -- one of the key reasons why the Fox-Trump merger was beneficial to Rupert Murdoch, it resolved years of family drama. Rupert and Lachlan would still have the Fox News throwing off $2 billion in profit a year. "You know," and executive joked, "we print money in the basement." They have a business model that works for them and I just don't know that they're going to change that. OK, on that note -
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: I think you - I think you're right, but I always try to be an optimist, Alisyn. I do look for hope somewhere.
CAMEROTA: The book, again, is called, "Hoax". It's by Brian Stelter. It's a great read. Brian, great to talk to you.
STELTER: Thank you. Thanks.
CAMEROTA: OK, the new advisory from the National Hurricane Center is in on two tropical storms that we're watching bear down on the Gulf Coast, and New Day continues right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A one-two punch, the Gulf Coast bracing for two storms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By themselves, each storm would be considered manageable, but combine their impacts and no one's really sure what to expect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is possible that there could be some spots measuring rainfall in one to two feet instead of in just inches.
[08:00:00]
