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Protests Turn Violent in Wisconsin After Police Shoot Black Man; German Hospital Says Russian Opposition Leader was Poisoned; Louisville Braces for Big March for Breonna Taylor; Republicans Try to Rewrite History, Paint Dark Picture Under Biden. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 25, 2020 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Jacob Blake is 29 years old. He's black. But you see parallels. So describe those to us.

MICHAEL BELL, SON FATALLY SHOT BY KENOSHA POLICE IN 2004: There's a lot of parallels. Essentially, Jacob's family watched his shooting and my own son was killed in front of his mother and sister.

There are some distinctions, though. Back in 2004 when my son was killed, the police department -- the co-workers of the officers involved found the officers justified within just two days. They investigated themselves and we passed a law that changed departments investigating themselves.

Today, Jacob Blake's family has the luxury of having an outside agency do that. And so welcome to ground zero for horrific police shootings here in Kenosha.

CAMEROTA; Yes.

BELL: This is exactly what we've lived through for 16 years.

CAMEROTA; Gosh, we're so sorry for your loss. And has anything changed in those 16 years? Has the action that you took after your son's death -- I mean, as I understand it, that was a, you know, so-called routine traffic stop that then escalated. And so was there new training? Had anything changed in the Kenosha Police Department since then?

BELL: You know, I think the biggest change has probably become in attitudes. I think the police officers aren't as headstrong as they used to be. I think there's been some change that way. And that's the good thing. Once again, in 2014, a group of us spearheaded a movement and Wisconsin became the first state in the United States to ensure that police officers don't investigate themselves after a shooting.

And this week I know that we have been working on another legislation and we're going to be taking a look at police-involved deaths and we're going to have a review board, kind of like the NTSB, take a look at all the root cause analysis and try to determine what was the real factors involved and how can we make sure that this doesn't happen again. About 30 percent of all police deaths are labeled as mistake effect or

use of force errors. In my own son's death, the police officer hooked his gun on a car mirror and mistaken it as my son grabbing his weapon and then another officer placed his gun directly to my son's temple, and killed him right in front of his mother and sister.

So we can go back to those types of cases and we can figure out what went wrong. Was it a human condition? Was it communications? And we can try to say, what can prevent these types of deaths from happening? And this legislation that's going to be introduced this week will be in a first-in-the-nation type.

CAMEROTA; It's so shocking. I mean, really the details of your son's death are so gut wrenching. And I know that you say that the police decided that they were not at fault but then you hired your own private investigator and got more of the real story.

BELL: Yes. In 2010, the city of Kenosha has settled a record civil rights settlement with our family and we refused the accept the nondisclosure or confidentiality agreement, and that's why we're able to go ahead and bring this information forward. And so our -- my son's death has been one of the poster child deaths of police shootings throughout the nation.

CAMEROTA; And so when something like this happens, when you hear the story of Jacob Blake being shot multiple times in the black in front of his children, when you've heard -- I mean, this has obviously been a violent time with police-involved shootings over these past months, what happens in your family?

BELL: Well, one of the things that I have to tell you is that I saw the video for the first time and my eyes went right to the woman that was just standing outside the door. She was obviously a family member of Jacob Blake's and she jumping up and down, and I immediately knew the horror that she was experiencing because our own family experienced that type of thing.

You have to understand that this is more than just racism. This is raw police brutality. Now, I know the shooting looks really bad on camera, but I want to give a moment here to allow the investigation to proceed forward because we really don't know all the facts. And so instead of me rushing to judgement and saying it was wrong, we're still waiting for those findings.

CAMEROTA; That is very judicious of you. I mean, really after everything that your family went through, it is just so reasonable and judicious, and of course right that we all do need to take a breath and wait for the investigation and let's hope that it happens with alacrity, unlike some of the cases that we have seen this summer.

I'm sorry, Mr. Bell. We're out of time. But do you have final thoughts in the last few seconds?

BELL: Final thought is don't let the local D.A. review the case. Have an outside prosecutor take a look at it like in New York, New Jersey. That would be a very important thing. So thank you, Alisyn. I appreciate you having me on.

[08:35:00]

CAMEROTA; Mr. Bell, we appreciate you. Thanks so much for being here and we'll talk to you again.

Meanwhile, was Vladimir Putin's most prominent Russian critic poisoned? What doctors who are treating him now say about this mysterious case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Major news from Europe this morning. The European Union is demanding an impartial investigation after a German hospital treating Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny confirmed that he was likely poisoned.

CNN's Matthew Chance is live in Moscow with the very latest on this -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, John. But the Kremlin within the past few minutes has issued a statement rejecting those calls from the European Union and from the German government as well for an investigation, and actually criticizing German doctors for saying that the cause of this terrible sickness of Alexei Navalny is suffering from right now is anything to do with poisoning.

They're saying there's been no substance that's identified in the sickness, which is of course true. Then there's no grounds the Kremlin says for any kind of investigation. Well, just a couple of days ago, the doctors treating Alexei Navalny said that the -- contracted the Russian doctors and said actually they think the poisoning was to blame.

[08:40:08]

They haven't been able to identify the substance but they said they have been treating Mr. Navalny with atropine, which is a medicine which is an antidote for nerve agents and for some pesticides as well. So it's an, you know, incredibly serious condition he's in. He's still unconscious and he's on a ventilator.

There's been an angry response from world leaders, actually. Particularly around here, the German chancellor and their foreign minister issuing a joint statement calling on Russian to clear up this crime to the last detail and in full transparency. The perpetrators must be identified and held accountable. That's what the German statement said.

But, you know, as we heard, the Kremlin at this stage are not prepared to, you know, countenance that and to launch any kind of investigation into the sudden sickness of its most outspoken opposition leader.

Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA; Matthew, thank you very much for the update.

Back here, Louisville, Kentucky, is bracing for a week of demonstrations over Breonna Taylor. She was shot and killed in March by Louisville police officers executing a no-knock warrant, and all these months, the investigation has still not concluded.

CNN's Jason Carroll has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hundreds gathered Monday night at this park in Louisville, Kentucky, in support of Breonna Taylor and her family. Taylor's mother Tamika Palmer says it's just what she needs to help her keep fighting for her daughter.

TAMIKA PALMER, BREONNA TAYLOR'S MOTHER: A lot of times you want to give up, you want to walk away, but I know that she deserves justice.

CARROLL: It has been more than five months since Breonna Taylor's death and her mother says with each passing day, she becomes more and more concerned about the outcome of the investigation.

PALMER: I have never had a lot of faith in the system. Just because I have seen it fail the people so many times and going through this I definitely have less faith. Just like I said, I just can't understand for the life of me why it's taking so long.

CARROLL: Taylor who was killed in the early morning hours of March 13th after Louisville Police served a no-knock warrant. They say they announced themselves and then broke down her door with a battering ram. Her boyfriend says he never heard them identified themselves as police and fired a shot, thinking they were intruders. That's when police opened fire.

Taylor, a 26-year-old emergency medical technician, died within minutes of being shot.

PALMER: Anger, rage, hurt, guilt.

CARROLL (on camera): Guilt, why guilt?

PALMER: You know, as a parent you feel that one's job is to protect your baby and I wasn't there.

CARROLL (voice-over): The investigation isn't complete, but one point is tragically clear. Police forced entry into Taylor's home, suspecting her address was connected to a drug ring. That operation ended with Taylor's death and lots of unanswered questions about the officer's actions.

Protesters have continuously called for the three officers involved in her shooting to be prosecuted. None have been charged.

TAMIKA MALLORY, CO-FOUNDER, UNTIL FREEDOM: We have to come here because there were no justice for our sister. CARROLL: In June the Louisville Metro Police Department fired one of

the officers, Detective Brett Hankison, for showing an extreme indifference to the value of human life after he allegedly fired 10 shots into Taylor's home. His attorney appealed the dismissal and disputed the allegation Hankison blindly fired his weapon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're doing this for Breonna Taylor.

CARROLL: In the wake of Taylor's death, Louisville City Council passed Breonna's Law, which bans no knock warrants and requires officers serving search warrants to wear body cameras.

And on Monday, Taylor's family joined activist and a Democratic lawmaker to introduce a state version of the law. Taylor's family says they are inspired by continuous signs of support. 26 billboards posted in Louisville, one for each year of her life. Her portrait, the cover of "Vanity Fair's" September issue and the protests continue.

PALMER: I think there will be protests every day until justice is served.

CARROLL (on camera): And if justice is not served?

PALMER: I don't know. I just -- I hate to even think about that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And Taylor's mother tells me she met with the attorney general just last week and he explained why the investigation has been taking so long.

Alisyn, he basically said that there's still some interviews that need to be done. He said the ballistics tests that still have not come in yet. Protesters say they are going to be out here on the streets to keep the pressure on -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA; I mean, it's just taking so long. Jason, thank you for staying on it. Thank you for explaining how the family is feeling.

Republicans promised optimism at their convention but they ended up peddling a dark vision.

[08:45:02]

Was that effective? That's next.

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BERMAN: Tonight at the Republican National Convention we hear from First Lady Melania Trump in her own words, allegedly. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and President Trump's children, Eric and Tiffany, will also speak.

So far to an extent, the uplifting and positive message the president promised has taken a backseat to gloom and doom. Joining me now is CNN contributor, John Dean. He's the former White

House counselor under President Nixon and the author of the new book "Authoritarian Nightmare: Trump and His Followers," which comes out today.

John, it's always a pleasure to have you here. And it's through the prism of your book, "Authoritarian Nightmare," as your title, that I want you to comment on a few things we did see last night on the first night of the Republican convention. The first was Charlie Kirk who's in charge of what it called Turning Point USA, which is a conservative young person's group.

We were told to expect an uplifting message. He came out with a little bit of fire and brimstone and this. Listen.

[08:50:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: Trump is the body guard of western civilization. Trump was elected to protect our families from the vengeful mob that seeks to destroy our way of life, our neighborhoods, schools, churches and values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: "The bodyguard of western civilization." So again, through the prism of your new book "Authoritarian Nightmare," what do you hear there?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, fear -- the whole fear and loathing approach does work for authoritarians who are trying to frighten their followers and that's one of the things that we rely on about four decades of solid scientific research into these people, John. And what we're seeing has repeated itself before and it's not a pleasant thing.

BERMAN: In terms of the followers, when they couch it like that, but for Donald Trump our civilization would disintegrate. Again, that type of language, what do you hear?

DEAN: Well, I hear fear and loathing, and if the follower is frightened and Trump's followers break down into two big categories. One are the low educated, white men and the other are the evangelicals. Both of them respond to fear. Both of them are groups that are worried about their future. So this is the sort of rhetoric that is playing right into that base to keep them in line, keep them following. Keep them in place.

BERMAN: So again, the title of your book is "Authoritarian Nightmare." And it is through that prism I want to play this moment. This is when President Trump was sitting inside the White House which is a whole other issue on a convention night, with people who had been hostages in other countries that his administration had helped bring home. And he was speaking with the man -- of someone who had been held in Turkey by the Turkish leader, Erdogan. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have to say that to me, President Erdogan was very good, and I know they had you scheduled for a long time, and you were a very innocent person and he ultimately -- after we had a few conversations, he agreed. So we appreciate that and we appreciate the people of Turkey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It was just -- talking about dissonance there. He's talking about freeing someone who had been in captivity for a long time but at the same time praising the guy who was holding him. Why?

DEAN: It's quite remarkable. His cozying up to dictators is saying this behavior is saying, these people are OK, this behavior is OK. His silence right now on Belarus. This is a pattern where he's making it clear who he is, what he believes and it's authoritarianism.

Authoritarianism really is the relationship between the followers and the leaders. He's trying to keep his in line and keep them very alert and aware and they want this kind of strong leader. This is -- this is decades old science and that's the -- that's the effort we made here is to bring explanations to all this rather than just more sensation to it.

BERMAN: How do or how should Democrats reach these voters?

DEAN: Well --

(LAUGHTER)

DEAN: Sadly, John, the real answer is -- and they will be around after Trump is gone if he were to be elected or unelected this year and lose his job. They're still going to be around and the only thing they understand is not winning. And that's the overwhelming way to deal with it. That there are not enough of them alone to win. If other people sit on their hands and don't go to the polls, the authoritarians will prevail. If they are voted out, they'll go back and have some second thoughts maybe about their approach.

BERMAN: So why did you write this? You said you wanted to look at this clinically rather than sensationally. What's the difference there?

DEAN: Well, you know, what struck me during the primary when Trump first surfaced was I had studied this area of political behavior 10 years ago, a decade ago. I worked for the last authoritarian president, Richard Nixon, and I noticed nobody in the media was covering this body of science that's been around since after World War II. So I started writing about it then and to this day, nobody is writing about it.

So it's a solid body of science. In fact what we did is we had the Monmouth Polling Institute run a survey, a nationwide survey that confirmed this science. So we know it's valid. We know this is explanation of what's going on. And that's why we did the book. BERMAN: We just have a few more seconds left, though. You say you

worked for Nixon which you did of course, He won. When he ran for reelection, he won. So to what extent might this be successful?

[08:55:06]

DEAN: It could be. Richard Nixon's Watergate behavior was little understood during the '72 election. It was well suppressed. While the Watergate break-in occurred the cover-up had not unraveled. I think, though, by comparative standards, John, Richard Nixon's a choir boy. Today's behavior is much rougher.

BERMAN: I got five --

DEAN: Much rougher.

BERMAN: I got five seconds less here. You're not suggesting that everyone who votes for Donald Trump is in favor of authoritarianism, are you?

DEAN: No, but I'm saying they're certainly opening the door to it.

BERMAN: John Dean, thank you very much. We appreciate your time. The book is "authoritarian nightmare."

DEAN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Good luck.

We've got a lot of news developing this morning including a look at what will happen tonight at the Republican National Convention. Our coverage continues next.

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