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Police in Kenosha, Wisconsin, Do Not Engage Man with Rifle after He Opens Fire on People; Hurricane Laura Threatens Gulf Coast; CDC Now Says People Without Virus Symptoms May Not Need Testing. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 26, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take this, take this.

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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: It was chaos. here's what it looks like this morning. Police are searching for a man with a long gun. Police in Kenosha still have not explained why Jacob Blake was shot in the back seven times in front of his children, leaving his family unsure if he would survive and ever walk again. So we will speak to the family's pastor on how they're doing just minutes from now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also breaking just moments ago, a brand-new update on hurricane Laura. People need to pay attention to this. Look at that storm. It has strengthened incredibly quickly. It is now a major category three storm and it's forecast to become an even more powerful category four storm today. The outer bands could make landfall in just a few hours. Hundreds of thousands of people have been forced to evacuate in Texas and Louisiana. We are going to get the very latest forecast and track in just a moment.

We begin, though, with CNN's Sara Sidner live in Kenosha, Wisconsin, with the breaking news from this in this dangerous development, Sara, with the idea of these armed vigilantes, even militia, as the local sheriff there, perhaps now involved in violence against the protesters.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's a lot of fear and there is a heck of a lot of frustration here after what happened overnight. Yes, you had protests between police and protesters who were here in the name of Jacob Blake, who was shot seven times by police.

But then overnight you're seeing this incredibly disturbing video of a man with a long gun. He is walking down the street, a white guy walking down the street. He is holding the gun. You see people running after him. They are running after him because they say he had just shot someone in the stomach at a nearby gas station, or near a nearby gas station, and then kept walking down the street. People, you can see, trying to grab him, trying to get to him, even though he is armed. He trips and falls on his own, and as people try coming up to him, try getting to him, he then fires a gun, and you see him fire not once, not twice, but several times. He hit someone. That person goes down on the ground. And then you see him fire again.

What has people really confused is that after he does this and people are yelling, you can see police are just a few hundred yards away. The lights are going. And then you see him walking towards police with his long gun strapped across his chest, with his hands up like this. But the police roll right past him. Not one, not two vehicles, but three vehicles roll past him, and then another vehicle backs up away from him as he seems to get closer and closer to the officers with his hands up.

People are very confused about why police did not engage him after this man is clearly shown shooting someone in the streets. And before then, the protesters say he had also started shooting someone there. We are hearing from local reports. The sheriff's department and the police department have not responded to multiple requests that we have made. But they did tell "The Milwaukee Journal," the sheriff of Kenosha County telling "The Milwaukee Journal" that they have witnessed members of the militia in the streets, and also he used the word "vigilantes" in the streets of Kenosha. And he did not link this man with any militia. But he did talk about vigilantism. He did say that there is indeed a manhunt going on now for the person responsible.

In the end, the terrible news, the news that the Blake family absolutely did not want to hear or have happen, two people have been shot and killed, and there are others injured after that shooting last night here in Kenosha.

CAMEROTA: Sara, you make such a good point. The police don't arrest the armed white guy who witnesses are pointing another and saying he just shot at us, but they do shoot Jacob Blake six times in the back. There are so many questions this morning. Thank you very much for being on the ground and reporting.

SIDNER: Sure.

All right, we have some more breaking news for you right now because hurricane Laura has rapidly intensified. It is now a powerful category three storm. It is forecast to get even stronger to a category four before it hits the gulf coast. So CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers joins us now with the forecast. So it's changing every hour, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It is. And the storm is still getting deeper, which means lower pressure. The winds are still coming up, catching up to that pressure, 115 miles per hour at the 8:00 advisory just now. Two airplanes are in it right now, so we have the most accurate deals we have had now for hours. These are the real numbers. The pressures are really going down, and it is a big storm heading to category four by later on today.

[08:05:05] So we'll move you ahead. Here's what the radar is going to look like. It is going to approach the coast, and by 9:00 or 10:00 there's going to be nothing you can do out there that's not going to be with wind at 60 miles per hour. We are going to see landfalling waterspouts. We will see some tornadoes as well. We'll see an awful lot of storm surge flooding with this storm.

But also, I don't want you to take your eye off the ball, Houston. I know this storm is east of you, and the worst of the storm is always east of it, but you're still going to get north winds between 60 and 80 miles per hour. And that's no joke. Trees will come down. Power lines will come down. There will be damage especially in the eastern part of Houston proper. So maybe Sugar Land a lot less than Baytown, but you get the idea.

All these areas in purple are going to have winds of 110 or greater, clearly in the eye it will be greater. And that is really centered on Lake Charles. You are in the middle of what's going to be the most significant storm surge, the most significant wind damage, and the most significant power lines out. Now, this is the surge, 15 feet, maybe even a little bit higher now that it's getting stronger. But look at how far the water goes inland, all the way to I-10. Guys?

BERMAN: All right, Chad Myers for us, thank you very much, Chad.

Joining me now is Ken Graham, the Director of the National Hurricane Center. Director, thank you for so much for being with us. We just heard from Chad Myers. I know you share that very same concern -- life-threatening storm surge. What do you see?

KEN GRAHAM, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: I was listening to Chad and, John, right over my shoulder I hear the discussion. I'm getting the latest information handed to me. I was trying to think of the right words -- catastrophic, life-threatening. Just incredible numbers here. And it's just so important that everybody really pays attention at this point because if you're told to leave you have got to get out, because some of that storm surge could reach these areas even before landfall. The water gets there first, and that could cut off those evacuate routes.

But look at some of these numbers, 10 to 15 foot of storm surge, Sebring State Park, portions of Louisiana, over to Intracoastal City. These are huge numbers, and so important to look at, it's not just coastal. Even places, Lake Charles, Calcasieu River, 35, 37 miles inland could still see storm surge. So just a life-threatening situation.

BERMAN: Look at that map. That really does illustrate I know what you most concerned about here, 10 to 15 feet. Exactly where you can see the worst in terms of the surge?

GRAHAM: You start looking at this, and just for a reference, if you take Beaumont over to areas of Lake Charles -- I'm drawing I-10. So you draw that across over to Lafayette, that's Interstate 10 in Louisiana and also back into Texas. So some of the areas, Lake Charles, anything in red here is over nine foot of storm surge. So you're talking areas in every little bayou, every little river that normally drains your rain is going to flow the opposite direction with storm surge. And it gets out of those banks and goes over the land. So even around I-10, you see surge north of I-10 in Louisiana.

BERMAN: That is really, really troubling. People need to pay very close attention and heed whatever warning they get. This storm is in the Gulf right now on the hot water of the Gulf. Talk to me about the rapid intensification and whether there's anything that might slow it down.

GRAHAM: Yes, not much here, because if you think about it, we're really looking at just a very organized storm. A couple things here. You see the convection getting right around the eye, so it's very solid in the middle, so the air is coming in, flowing up. And look at this outflow. You can actually see the outflow out the top. That means, John, it's breathing, it's healthy, and there's no reason that we couldn't see further intensification. The waters are warm, the atmosphere is conducive. So a catastrophic event under way.

BERMAN: Chad mentioned this could hit east of Houston, which would be the most major population area. But the western part of the storm could still cause some major concerns there, yes?

GRAHAM: Yes, absolutely. You talk about right along the center and also to the right, usually you see the most rain, you see the most storm surge. However, this is major hurricane-force winds. We're talking winds above 115, 120 miles an hour. So little wiggles matter. You get a little bit left, a little bit right, and that could put portions, more of Texas into those hurricane force winds. So we've got to take it serious, all aspects, the tornados, the flooding, the wind, and also that dangerous storm surge.

BERMAN: Ken Graham, Director of the National Hurricane Center, we will be talking to you no doubt again. Thank you very much for giving us the very latest on what could be a very dangerous storm. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: The chaos overnight in Wisconsin is fast becoming a political flashpoint in one of the most important swing states. President Trump has made law and order a theme at this week's Republican Convention, so how will he address the violence in Kenosha?

Joining us now is CNN senior political commentator and former Republican senator Rick Santorum, also with us CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers.

[08:10:00]

Guys, last night was chaos in Kenosha. The videos, the cellphone videos of witnesses and people who were involved was just jaw- dropping. Two people were killed, Rick, Senator, two people were killed, and we don't have many details because it's so chaotic. All we see is what we see on these cellphone videos, and we do know that police say that they are searching for that guy. He appears to be a young man. He appears to be white. He's carrying a long gun. We'll wait for the official police description of him, but there's a manhunt on for him. Will President Trump raise this at the RNC? Should he? RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, all I can say

is I don't know of anybody that supports vigilante justice. That man running with a long gun through a crowd and shooting people, that's -- it reminds me of the similar to the school shooting. That's just someone who is lawless, someone who's obviously has some very serious issues to be running around shooting people randomly. That's indefensible, period.

CAMEROTA: Yes, go ahead.

SANTORUM No, I just -- whether the Republican Convention focuses on one deranged person running around through a crowd shooting is one thing --

CAMEROTA: Right, but it's not like it's just one deranged person. Obviously, what's happening in Kenosha --

SANTORUM: What we're talk about here one deranged person.

CAMEROTA: Not exactly. What we're talking about is that armed vigilantes showed up because there were protesters, and there were protesters because Jacob Blake was shot seven times in the back, he was an unarmed, he's a black guy, by police in front of his children. So it's all connected. It's all connected. It's George Floyd again. It's just all of what we have been seeing for months. So my question is, is that the stuff that President Trump should address, and should he condemn openly these vigilantes, Senator?

SANTORUM: Look, yes, it's all connected, Alisyn. The reality is that protesters were not just protesting. They were doing much more than protesting and have been for the past couple of nights there. That's the problem. And so we need to address that issue. You even heard that Mr. Blake's mother called for no looting, no rioting. Protesting is one thing, and legitimately going out there and peacefully protesting. Violently protesting is a crime. And you need to separate the two, and they should be separated.

CAMEROTA: How is protesting a crime?

SANTORUM: Violently protesting is a crime.

CAMEROTA: Looting you mean? You mean looting and defacing --

SANTORUM: Violence. Yes, violence is the crime, Alisyn, no matter whether it's people who are black or white.

CAMEROTA: Understood. But there are so many peaceful protesters, and there's the looters, they're different than the peaceful protesters.

SANTORUM: Exactly. But what the governor is trying to deal with, the mayor is dealing with, others, law enforcement is trying to deal with are the violent protesters, and they need to be condemned equally with the counter-violent protesters. All violence needs to be condemned, period.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I understand, but they're not counter-protesters, Bakari. They're armed vigilantes. They say they're guarding their dry- cleaning store. How do you see what's happening there?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes, so I hear my good friend Rick Santorum, and one of the things that he didn't mention is the underlying cause for the protesting, the underlying cause for the looting and the rioting. While you want to call out the rioting, I join you in that and say there's no place in this country for rioting. But we know, we have been on TV before, and I've quoted King where he said the rioting is the voice of the unheard.

What we have to do is we have to get -- to stop shooting black folk in the back seven times on camera. That's what has to stop happening. We have to go back to the crux of this incident, and the crux is Jacob Blake is now paralyzed from the waist down, lacerated liver and kidneys. His intestines have been removed. He may not be able to ever walk again simply because police did not -- the situation. Even if you have a problem -- there are a lot of tools in the toolkit before you actually get to shooting someone in the back with your loaded weapon. And so I hear you.

I also think that -- there are two other quick points I'll make. The first is that we have seen the president when he was saying liberate, liberate, liberate. We've seen the president stand aside when you have these individuals with these long form weapons who show up at state capitols all the time, these militiamen who interact with the protesters, and he hasn't said anything. I don't expect him to say anything today.

And to answer your question about the RNC, I do agree with Rick. This isn't necessarily the time that you would take up this matter individually. However, what I have noticed from the RNC is that they see black folk through this weird reference point. Either it's Tim Scott, Herschel Walker, or it's criminality. Everyone up there is either being pardoned or has committed a crime or is talking about criminal justice reform if they're not Tim Scott and Herschel Walker of Daniel Cameron.

[08:15:02]

And so, that is a very unique reference point that the RNC is pushing forth. So I don't think there's any space to have this larger conversation about reckoning or justice for all people of color.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Senator, what do you think of the elevation of the McCloskeys, the couple, the white couple in St. Louis who brandished their guns at protesters walking by in the wake of George Floyd, and then do you see any connection between that and armed vigilantes feeling as though they have some impunity?

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there's a difference between someone protecting their business and protecting their home which they have the right to do, and someone with a long gun running through the streets shooting someone. And to -- it's as big of a difference as peaceful protesters and violent protesters.

I mean, someone can stand at their home or stand at their business and had the right to protect their property and protect, you know, their families. So, that -- if you're going to draw distinctions between violent protesters and peaceful ones, which, by the way, is a legitimate thing to draw a distinction, then you have to draw the distinction between someone who is using -- legally protecting themselves and their family and their business, and someone running through the streets and shooting.

CAMEROTA: What do you think about that logic?

SELLERS: No, I mean, I think they're just propping up individuals throughout. I actually agree with Rick that there's a clear distinction between, you know, people who are protesting and then the individuals who are inciting the further violence. Many times, those people aren't from the communities. Many times, those people are doing the antithesis to what Jacob Blake's family actually wants. You have people from the outside coming in. That's a fact.

But you bring up a point about the RNC and trying to explain and draw this connective tissue, which I agree with, Alisyn, that the fact remains, you have a president who is not built for this moment and he's not built for a moment. He wants to divide this country even further.

If he were to come out today, he's not capable, but if he were to come out today and actually have a statement about peace and justice from both sides talking about making sure that people -- that we understand why there are protests, that we understand that too many black people are being killed by law enforcement he can't say that. He has not said one thing about law enforcement --

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SANTORUM: He has said that.

SELLERS: Tell me that, please tell me, please tell me when the president of the United States has come out and said that there are too many black people who have been killed by law enforcement.

SANTORUM: Maybe not the exact words but he's certainly supported the peaceful protests and certainly condemned obviously, you know, the George Floyd incident. I mean, look, to say the president --

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SELLERS: That's not -- but that's not my point. That's not my point, Rick. My point is deeper than that. It's easy to condemn George Floyd because we saw it with our eyes and it was 8 minutes and 46 seconds.

But what we're also saying is that there's Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery and there's now Jacob Blake. The list goes on and on. And so, I understand your point, Rick, that we can condemn this one (AUDIO GAP), what I'm saying is that we have to condemn this epidemic of proportions that law enforcement are interacting in a violent way with people of color.

CAMEROTA: Rick, just to be clear, how did he -- hold on, how did the president support peaceful protests? He used tear gas and rubber bullets or at least batons on them outside of Lafayette Park. How has he supported peaceful protesting?

SANTORUM: Remember, they were asked to leave, they violated the orders to leave the area.

CAMEROTA: They were still within curfew.

SANTORUM: Within a couple of minutes within curfew. But the reality was they were not leaving.

CAMEROTA: They weren't given much time, Rick. They were legally protesting and they came in and as you saw, they came in and they beat them and gassed them.

SANTORUM: Look, there is excess and abuses unfortunately when it comes to managing crowds, things get out of control. Things get out of control because people don't follow instructions.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: That's not true, Rick. It's not true.

SELLERS: Can I say --

CAMEROTA: Yeah, go ahead, Bakari.

SELLERS: Can I say one thing? I get the point that we want to harp on the protesting. I get the point that, you know, Republicans want to talk about chaos from the rioting or the looting. I completely understand that.

Let me say here today as a black man in America who comes from a family that is root -- that is steeped in civil rights history that I understand -- I understand the protests. I understand the rioting and looting. We do not want the protest to evolve to rioting and looting.

I want peaceful protests on the streets of every city -- every single city in this country. However, the reason that we're here is because a black man was killed again and so we get off on the tangent of what the protests look like. And we did not focus -- we're focusing on the symptoms.

[08:20:03]

We're focusing on everything else --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: Bakari, with all due respect, the reason we're focusing on it is because people are -- people are being violent in response to that violence. That's why we're focused on it. There was --

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: OK. How about this? But, Rick, condemn --

CAMEROTA: Yeah, quickly. SELLERS: Condemn the shooting, Rick, condemn Jacob Blake's shooting.

Just do that. I can condemn the -- I can condemn the looting. You condemn the fact that another black man is dead by law enforcement and he should not. Condemn that.

SANTORUM: Here's what I'd say and we're all for condemning -- hold on. We're all for condemning before we have the information. And I think it's important that everybody have the opportunity to have the -- you know, the full story before we know what happened there. And we don't.

SANTORUM: Yeah.

SELLERS: And I think --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Rick, it's not that hard to say, he was unarmed and it was wrong.

SELLERS: I mean --

CAMEROTA: I hear you. Listen, guys, we have to go but the reason we don't have the information is because the police haven't told us what happened. They haven't given us an explanation.

SANTORUM: Agreed, agreed.

CAMEROTA: Rick Santorum, Bakari Sellers, thank you very much.

SELLERS: Good morning. I'm going to get some coffee.

CAMEROTA: Good. Very good. We all will. Thank you.

The CDC just did a complete reversal on some of the coronavirus testing guidelines and the big question is why. We discuss it next.

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CASMEROTA: Big questions this morning about changes the CDC made to their testing guidelines late yesterday.

[08:25:03]

Quietly, on their website, the agency now saying that people exposed to coronavirus may not need to be tested.

Joining us now is CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Also with us, CNN medical analyst, Dr. Leana Wen. She's the former health commissioner in Baltimore.

Dr. Wen, why? Why would the CDC say that if you think you have been exposed to someone who tests positive for coronavirus, you don't have to be tested? DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I don't have an answer for you

because it makes no sense to me, Alisyn, because these are exactly the people who should be tested. I mean, imagine if you got exposed at work, you would want to know for your own family whether you have COVID-19 because you don't want to bring it back to your loved ones and also we need to know for public health purposes. We know that 50 percent of transmission could be caused by people who are asymptomatic, so why wouldn't we want this population to be tested?

I think the CDC really needs to give a much better explanation. The entire process of how this was done in the middle of the night with no explanation just causes more confusion. And that mixed messaging has really hindered our public health response to coronavirus so far.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Sanjay, doesn't this mean there will be fewer tests conduct and fewer cases identified and doesn't this mean quite possibly there will be further spread because we haven't identified asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic people?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: A hundred percent, absolutely. And, you know, building on what Lena said, according to the CDC itself, about 50 percent of the spread is coming from people who are asymptomatic, people who don't know that they're carrying the virus, who don't have symptoms or don't yet have symptoms.

You know, there's a larger picture going on here. Last week we heard that teachers even if they have been exposed to coronavirus could be considered essential workers so they could continue to teach even if they have been exposed to coronavirus. That was last week.

Over the weekend, we had this emergency use authorization for convalescent plasma. Even though they said to themselves a couple of days earlier they weren't going to authorize the emergency use authorization and then, suddenly, they switched. And then today, late last night really, as Lena mentioned, there's a change on testing again.

We're constantly playing catch-up here. We're constantly not learning the lessons. This is ridiculous, this is dangerous. This is bizarre in terms of what they have done with testing specifically. How do we gain control of the pandemic?

And by the way, kids are going back to school now. We have seen what's happened at the college campuses. We need to be doing this kind of testing in order to get around this pandemic and if we're going to pull back on that now, things are just going to get worse.

CAMEROTA: And, Sanjay, I'm going to stick with you for a second because it's a political question. You know how Dr. Redfield, the director of the CDC, operates. I mean, is it what it looks like? Is it possible that he caved to political pressure from President Trump who wanted less testing?

GUPTA: Sadly, I think the answer to that question is yes. I really do. I know that they were asked this question specifically at a Senate testimony and they all said no. And maybe this is more insidious, it's not that direct, but the bottom line I think, Alisyn, is yes. There has been clearly a minimizing of testing for some time.

The lack of importance given to testing in this country has been consistent throughout. We have seen the benefits of testing in other countries. We have seen how well it can work. Test, trace, isolate and quarantine, bedrock principles of public health and they're not being done here.

But, you know, Alisyn, I tried to call my sources at the CDC last night, really trying to talk to somebody, it's probably the first time that I wasn't given anything back, nothing on background, nothing off the record. Really just sort of sent to HHS, saying that HHS is going to be answering these questions.

Now we just heard right before we're talking to you that Admiral Giroir, the testing czar in this country, is going to be have a briefing about testing today, maybe, hopefully to respond to some of these questions.

But yeah, look, I mean, you know, the FDA commissioner authorizing an EUA just a couple of days, this after they said they wouldn't. This testing being pulled back when everyone recognizes the importance of testing. Teachers being called essential workers and said they can continue to teach even after they have been exposed to coronavirus.

What's going on in this country right now? We're in the middle of some really bad numbers and there's a way through this, but we can't keep going backwards like this.

BERMAN: Look, I can't think of a possible explanation for this other than you want to identify fewer cases. It is that simple. This decision is that bizarre that as of this morning, I can't think of another possible explanation and that's troubling.

Dr. Wen, Dr. Gupta, thank you both for being with us this morning.

Jacob Blake's mother with a plea to Americans after her son was shot by police.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need healing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The family's pastor joins us next.

END