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New Day

Kenosha Deadly Shootings; Former Trump Officials Campaign for Biden; Two Justice Systems in U.S. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 28, 2020 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

MAYOR JOHN ANTARAMIAN (D), KENOSHA, WISCONSIN: We've been able to get more support from the -- the National Guard, which has made things a lot easier for us. And we will deal with these issues as they come along.

CAMEROTA: So is that what happened? I mean just so I understand, on Tuesday night, the point -- the reason it was able to get to such pandemonium was that there weren't enough officers in Kenosha. How did it get to the point that the city was on fire and that vigilantes took over?

ANTARAMIAN: There -- the problem in the city at this time is we had made requests to the state and the state did bring the National Guard in.

However, a huge number of outside individuals came into the city, including, as you saw with our -- the militia. These are not folks that are from Kenosha. They all came from other places. A good -- I shouldn't say all, a good percentage came from other places. And because of that, we were basically in a situation that, you know, the first two nights, a difficult situation to deal with. We had made this -- we had all sorts of different groups that came into the community to help the police department. That's police officers, sheriffs from all over the state came to help out, national guard came. However, we just -- we did not have enough people in that first two nights. And so as we ramped up --

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, the sheriff's deputies, you've seen the video --

ANTARAMIAN: Go ahead.

CAMEROTA: I mean you've seen the video. They offered water to the vigilantes who were armed.

ANTARAMIAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I mean is that -- have you had a conversation with the sheriff about that? How is that protocol? ANTARAMIAN: Actually, I -- actually, I did have a conversation with

the sheriff on that. And, literally, I -- best answer for that is to talk to the sheriff and have him respond to you directly.

CAMEROTA: What did he say to you?

ANTARAMIAN: My conversation -- the sheriff is an elected official. His comment to me, it was not one of his officers who did it, it was some of the officers from other places. So, again, in fairness to them, part of this has to be thoroughly looked at and investigated to make sure that we're -- we're doing things right and we will follow-up with the sheriff's department and the police department as to looking back at what was done and how we did it.

CAMEROTA: OK. Mayor John Antaramian, thank you very much for your time. Thank you for being on NEW DAY.

ANTARAMIAN: Thank you.

President Trump says voters face a clear choice on Election Day. Up next, two former Trump administration officials who are now backing Joe Biden. They tell us why.

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[08:36:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH NEUMANN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR COUNTERTERRORISM AND THREAT PREVENTION: The president's actions and his language are, in fact, racist. Things like, there are good people on both sides, or send them back where they came from. Those words gave permission to white supremacists to think that what they were doing was permissible. And I do think that the president's divisive language is indirectly tied to some of the attacks that we have seen in the last two years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That's a new ad from a group of former and current White House officials working to defeat President Trump, administration officials, I should say.

Joining us now from the ad, Elizabeth Neumann, from assistant secretary for counterterrorism and threat prevention. Also Miles Taylor, former chief of staff at the Department of Homeland Security. Both served in the Trump administration.

Elizabeth, I want to start with you because of the message from you in that commercial, which was, you left the administration and you are now voting for Joe Biden, largely because of your concern over the president's messaging and impact on white supremacy.

Well, at the White House last night, in the final night of his convention, Marjorie Taylor Green, who supports QAnon, which is this conspiracy theory group which the FBI has said could inspire terrorists -- domestic terrorists to violence, there she is, she was an invited guest at the Republican Convention at the White House.

What's the impact of that, do you think?

ELIZABETH NEUMANN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR COUNTERTERRORISM AND THREAT PREVENTION: You know, three and a half, four years ago when he was running for president, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was ignorant, that he didn't realize that his messaging was having this effect of rallying -- almost a rallying cry for these extreme views and, of course, in America you can have an extreme view. The problem is that these extreme views have been shown to cause people to act out in violence.

And we have a number of examples in recent years where his rhetoric is tied in manifestos of people that have committed attacks. I'm thinking specifically of El Paso. But certainly continuing in this behavior is irresponsible. It's reckless. If you are holding the office of the president, your first and primary duty under the Constitution is to protect us. And he is doing the exact opposite with his divisive language.

BERMAN: Miles, to an extent you were out in front on this movement that you're now trying to create with people who worked in the administration, Republicans now vocally supporting Joe Biden for president. Over the last four days at the Republican Convention, the president has tried to counter some of that and I think bringing Republicans back home and create fear in some ways and say this is a choice between a liberal vision and a conservative vision.

To what extent do you think that's been effective over the last four days?

MILES TAYLOR, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, I think you hit the nail on the head, John. The operative word is fear and the president is trying to instill fear to get people to vote for him. But I think Americans see through it.

The consensus this morning really largely among folks who watched this is Donald Trump is trying to make the case that the only way to save America from Donald Trump is Donald Trump. It's not a very compelling argument. I go back to Elizabeth's point. The number one duty of a president is to keep Americans safe. Right now the reason Americans feel unsafe in their communities is because this is what Donald Trump's America looks like. His rhetoric jumps the tracks into violence and that's why we're experiencing what we're experiencing.

And I want to buttress Elizabeth's other point on domestic terrorism. I personally pushed the White House to make sure that the nation's counterterrorism strategy included a systemic and coherent vision for addressing domestic terrorism. Do you know what the -- we got back in response, John? We got one or two sentences in the document and they told us, don't worry, we'll deal about it -- deal with it later. So this is a White House that hasn't prioritized the safety of Americans and we're seeing that play out in real-time.

[08:40:04]

It is a direct result of the president's leadership.

And the last thing I would add is, he's campaigning as a law and order president, but he is the lawlessness and disorder president. And, again, that's what we're seeing play out in America's city street.

BERMAN: Elizabeth, you said in 2016 you voted for the president because of the issue surrounding abortion and also your faith. You are -- you are very religious.

I want to play some sound from Lou Holtz at this convention, a college football coach, who I think appointed himself somehow an expert on Joe Biden's faith.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOU HOLTZ: And other politicians are Catholic in name only and abandon innocent lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What do you think of someone like that at a convention in a pre-prepared speech saying that someone else is a Catholic in name only?

NEUMANN: Well, I would caution anybody to pass judgment on another person's faith. I think that's the Lord's job to know what's in a man's heart. But if you are a Bible-believing, scripture-reading Christian, Jesus tells us very clearly to judge one another by the fruits that we see, not necessarily the words that we speak. And I think the fruits that we see in Joe Biden's life are fruits that are more consistent with what scripture calls for in terms of caring for the least of these, in terms of loving one another, even turning the other cheek. And I see the exact opposite in President Trump's. So the man lacks complete character and any number of other people have talked about the challenges of his character and I won't spend time on that, but the point here is that if you're -- if you're assessing the fruit, I think Joe Biden has a lot more fruit and evidence of godliness in his life than President Trump does.

BERMAN: Miles, ten seconds or less, you've planned out, I think, the next two months meticulously. What's the next step for your organization?

TAYLOR: Look, Elizabeth and I are going to be working together to do two big things -- repair the GOP and repair the United States. And you're going to hear an announcement from us sometime after Labor Day about the people who are linking arms with us in this mission. It will be more folks from the Trump administration. It will be more luminaries from the GOP. And we're going to lay out an agenda to bring the party back and repair the damage that Donald Trump has done over the last four years as president.

BERMAN: Miles Taylor, Elizabeth Neumann, thank you very much for being with us this morning. Appreciate your time. NEUMANN: Thank you.

TAYLOR: Thanks, John.

All right, after four days of the Republican Convention, what stands up as fact? What stands up as fiction or worse?

CNN "Reality Check," next.

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[08:46:41]

CAMEROTA: President Trump made more than 20 false or misleading claims in his nomination speech acceptance last night. There is a lot to fact check. And so we're lucky that John Avlon is here with a "Reality Check."

Great to see you, John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Great to see you guys. I've missed you. Back in the saddle on set.

All right, so that's a wrap on Donald Trump's re-election convention. It was slickly produced reality show with the White House rebranded as a Trump property. But it might come with a whiplash warning because this was a convention of contradictions. Team Trump straining to put forward a far more diverse and inclusive face to the president's support with 12 African-Americans featured at the RNC. Near as we can tell, only two serve in senior roles in Trump's West Wing and cabinet.

Trump presided over an immigration naturalization ceremony, despite his obsession with cutting both legal and illegal immigration. There were even attempts to present President Trump as some kind of post- partisan president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVANKA TRUMP: Where politicians choose party, our president chooses people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Nice message. If only it were true. In fact, partisan polarization has gotten much worse under President Trump. And once Trump started speaking, any message of unity went out the window.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This election will decide whether we will defend the American way of life or whether we will allow a radical movement to completely dismantle and destroy it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: The contradictions continued and Trump's attempt to make this a choice election and not a referendum. He mentioned Joe Biden more than 40 times, simultaneously describing him as weak, and yet so strong that he would be a destroyer of American jobs and American greatness. Ivanka slammed Biden for authoring the tough 1994 Crime Bill, while Trump said that, quote, no one would be safe in Biden's American. Trump even tried to play the American carnage card after nearly four years in office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When we can never have a situation where things are going on as they are today, we must never allow mob --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: But there was no mission of the victims of police violence, or the murder of protesters and officers allegedly by right wing militia types. And even in a scripted speech, Trump made at least 20 false or misleading claims in 70 minutes. Trump said Biden wants to defund the police. That's a lie. In fact, Biden's called for increased funding for police to aid reform.

Trump said we will always very strongly protect patients with pre- existing conditions, while his administration is in court trying to abolish the Affordable Care Act without any sign of his long promised alternative in the middle of a pandemic.

Speaking of the pandemic, President Trump tried to gloss over his failures in confronting coronavirus, ignoring the fact that America has the worst response record with about 4 percent of the world's population, but nearly 22 percent of the world's reported deaths to date.

But no Trump speech would be complete without some epic project and deflect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our opponents say that redemption for you can only come from giving power to them. This is a tired anthem spoken by every repressive movement throughout history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Kind of reminds you of a claim he made four years ago.

[08:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I alone can fix it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Well, we all know how that turned out.

And that's your "Reality Check."

CAMEROTA: And he's back. You haven't missed a beat, John Avlon. Thank you very much for all of that.

AVLON: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, a crowd is gathering this morning in Washington to mark 57 years since MLK's historic March on Washington. Are we at an inflection point in this country? Van Jones is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Let's take a live look now at the Lincoln Memorial where tens of thousands of people are expected to gather to mark the historic 1963 Civil Rights March on Washington. Fifty-seven years later, are we at an inflection point on racial justice in America?

Moments ago, I talked exclusively with the father of Jacob Blake. He's the Wisconsin man shot seven times in the back by Kenosha police. His children were in the car and witnessed that. He compared the way his son is being treated to how the white teenager who was charged with two murders is being treated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACOB BLAKE SR., FATHER OF JACOB BLAKE: He got to go home. He got water. They gave that guy water and a high five. My son got ICU and paralyzed from the waist down. Those are the two justice systems right in front of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now, CNN political commentator Van Jones.

It's hard to put a finer point on it than Mr. Blake did there, Van.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, it -- powerful testimony and he -- you know, he could point to many other examples. You know, Tamir Rice, a very young teenager playing with a toy gun in a park, like many kids do. The police came up and shot him within seconds, murdered him, dead, he's gone. There guy is walking around with a long gun where people are being shot and gets a chance to literally walk by and be treated like a -- almost like a hero.

[08:55:07]

So I think that this election season, you know, it becomes an ink blot test for a lot of Americans. If you think that the main lawlessness that you've got to worry about is inside law enforcement and with these vigilante groups and these hate groups, you've got to see it one way. If you think the main lawlessness has to do with protesters and street crime, you'll see it another way. But it's very, very hard to listen to that father and not know that something's wrong with America.

BERMAN: Van, if we can, I want to take a step back because it's been an extraordinary week again. I mean we're at the close of two political conventions. We've seen another black man shot by police officers now in the hospital. We've seen an unprecedented move by athletes to focus attention on that. You have been part of campaigns and you've been part of movements, and the two things are different. But I want to know where you think things go forward now, the confluence of those two things. What will the next 67 days look like now?

JONES: Well, right now we're on track to 1972 where you have more and more disturbances, justifiable, understandable, but you panic a bunch of swing voters into the arms of the conservatives because no matter what the kind of underlying dynamics are, people just look at, you know, fires and fistfights and stuff like that and they think, well, we need -- we need more protection.

And so I think that those of us who are progressive have to make sure that we don't lose the plot. I think the athletes have done a great job, a tremendous job. You have more leadership coming from Doc Rivers, more leadership coming from the WNBA and the NBA on these questions of what's happening, how to bring people together than you saw from the entire Republican National Convention.

So you've got dynamics now where you've got, I think, very compelling stuff, very smart stuff. You've also got very, you know, crazy stuff that's going on out there. All this could wind up helping the president if we don't get very clear this movement is not about creating more lawlessness, it's about ending the lawlessness. And part of the thing is that I think Joe Biden could be a great spokesperson. I'm sure he's opposed to lawlessness in the police departments, lawlessness in the streets and lawlessness from vigilantes. So I think, you know, he needs to be able to give that message much more clearly and be supported and echoed by the majority of progressives so that we get to a better place in the fall.

CAMEROTA: But, Van, is that your anxiety talking, where you think that President Trump's narrative is taking root or are you seeing evidence of that?

JONES: I'm here -- look, you guys know, I -- I have friends on the right and the left. And very close friends. At the top and at the bottom, and proud of it. I think it makes me do my job better. I've got to pass bills in red states and purple states to get people out of prison. That's my job. So I got to know everybody, work with everybody.

Both sides now are fired up. You have African-Americans and our allies who are fired up. Cannot believe, of all of the summer of protests and public education that we are right back in the soup again. And you also though don't -- you have to understand, Trump's people are fired up too. They are being told by conservative media, by Fox News, that the entire country is on fire, that rioters are taking over everything. They're coming soon to a suburb near you. And it's completely out of control and it's Democratic mayors' fault.

Now, you might think that is completely ludicrous. How can you even believe that when you understand these are long-term dynamics, when you understand that some of the rhetoric from the White House has been inflammatory and divisive.

But we live in different media bubbles. And if you think that only our side is fired up as a liberal -- I'm speaking as a Democrat now, you've got to -- you've got to switch up your social media feed. Both sides now are fired up. Both sides now have coherent arguments for voting in November. Much more coherent on both sides than we were two weeks ago.

BERMAN: I think that's very true. It's very interesting also because the president was casting about for something to go after Joe Biden with. He's found it now.

JONES: Yes.

BERMAN: And now the Biden team needs to figure out exactly how to respond.

We've got 30 seconds left, Van. In 30 seconds, you said Joe Biden should come out and do "x." What exactly do you want to see from him and how in the next 20 days?

JONES: Strength, strength, strength. Underlying everything that Trump is trying to do to Biden is to say, I'm a strong man, he's a weak man. You know, he is a puppet of China. He's a puppet of protesters. He's a puppet of the squad. He's a -- he's a weak man. I am a strong man. And he needs to come out and show real strength.

[09:00:00]

And part of that needs to be clarifying where he agrees with some of these protest movements and where he doesn't because I think that's authentic to him.