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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Will Trump Administration Rush Out COVID-19 Vaccine?; Biden Blasts Trump Over Unrest in America; Prominent Docs Call for Independent Panel to Review Vaccines. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired August 31, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: COVID, as you know, has devastated the air travel industry, and airlines are desperate to get people flying again.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me. We will see you back here tomorrow.

In the meantime let's go to Washington.

"THE LEAD" starts now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD, I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper on this Monday.

And we begin with the 2020 lead and the two visions for the nation. This afternoon, Joe Biden calling the Trump presidency -- quote -- "toxic," accusing President Trump of encouraging violence in an attempt to distract from his failed response to the coronavirus pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's supposed to be protecting this country, but, instead, he's rooting for chaos and violence.

The simple truth is, Donald Trump failed to protect America. So now he's trying to scare America.

Do you know what people are afraid of in America? They're afraid they're going to get COVID. They're afraid they're going to get sick and die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Well, tomorrow, President Trump is heading to Kenosha, Wisconsin, despite pleas from the state's governor to stay away, warning, the president's mere presence will only cause more unrest there.

Well, President Trump on Twitter, meanwhile, is fanning the flames, attempting to make law and order his central campaign message and tweeting the only way to stop violence in so-called crime-infested cities is with strength, as CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ignoring pleas from state and local officials, President Trump is pushing ahead with plans to visit Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Tuesday, turning the latest epicenter of the racial justice moment into a backdrop for his campaign's law and order message.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president wants to visit hurting Americans. I think highlighting that the federal government has done a lot in the way of using law and order to create peace, but showing up for hurting Americans is the primary concern.

DIAMOND: But those hurting Americans don't include Jacob Blake, the black man who was shot in the back seven times by police, or his family. Trump has no plans to meet with them, instead, touring property damage caused by riots.

Today, the president taking credit for Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers' decision to deploy state-controlled National Guard troops, tweeting: "If I didn't insist on having the National Guard activate and go into Kenosha, Wisconsin, there would be no Kenosha right now. I will see you on Tuesday."

Trump's tweet coming after Evers sent a letter to Trump on Sunday, asking him to reconsider his visit: "I am concerned your presence will only hinder our healing. I am concerned your presence will only delay our work to overcome division and move forward together. Now is not the time for divisiveness."

Rather than calls for calm, Trump spent the weekend amplifying and encouraging clashes between his supporters and protesters. Today, Trump assailing radical left mayors and governors and delivering his latest threat to send federal forces to Portland, tweeting: "If this joke of a mayor doesn't clean it up, we will go in and do it for them."

QUESTION: Is there consideration of sending in more federal law enforcement, even in the defiance of local leaders?

CHAD WOLF, ACTING U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I believe all options continue to be on the table, specifically as we talk about Portland. We need to bring some normalcy back to Portland.

DIAMOND: Portland's mayor slamming Trump after a man was killed after a night of clashes.

TED WHEELER (D), MAYOR OF PORTLAND, OREGON: Do you seriously wonder, Mr. President, why this is the first time in decades that America has seen this level of violence? It's you who have created the hate and the division.

DIAMOND: While Trump tweeted his condolences for the man killed in Portland, who appears to have been a Trump supporter, he is still silent on the shooting carried out by one of his supporters, who killed two people amid protests in Kenosha.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND: And the president was watching Joe Biden's speech today, tweeting -- quote -- that "Joe Biden is blaming the police far more than he's blaming the rioters, anarchists, agitators and looters, which he could never blame or he would lose the radical left Bernie supporters."

The reality, though, is that Biden did condemn the looting and the rioting. And so that's just a plain mischaracterization of Biden's speech by the president.

The president, for his part, he is focused only, it seems, on the rioting and looting, and not at all on these issues of racism and police brutality -- Pam.

BROWN: Yes. If I remember correctly, he condemned it pretty early on in the speech that he gave today.

So, let's learn a little bit more about what he said.

Thanks, Jeremy Diamond.

I want to go to straight to CNN's Arlette Saenz, live in Pittsburgh, where Joe Biden gave his speech earlier. And the president, as we just were noting, Arlette, has been saying Biden is weak on crime. What did Biden have to say?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Pamela, this was really Joe Biden's sharpest pushback yet on President Trump's message of this being a law and order election, and also the suggestion that Joe Biden is weak on crime.

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What Biden was trying to do today was ask voters whether they feel safe in President Trump's America. The president has repeatedly said that some of these scenes that you're seeing play out in over -- across the country are part of Joe Biden's America.

But the former vice president points out that this is all happening under President Trump's watch. And Biden condemned the violence that they have seen in these protests. He said that rioting and looting and setting fires to building is not protesting, that that is lawlessness.

And Biden also pushed back on the suggestion from President Trump and his allies that he's a part of the radical left. Take a listen to what he had to say about that and crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The road back begins now in this campaign. You know me. You know my heart. You know my story, my family's story.

Ask yourself, do I look like a radical socialist with a spot rioters? (END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, Biden, also, when he talked about Americans feeling safe in the country, he said it's not just related to the violence seen in these protests. He is also asking whether Americans feel safe under President Trump due to COVID-19, both the public health and economic repercussions.

On foreign policy, he criticized President Trump when it comes to his approach on Russia. He also talked about health care and Social Security.

So these are all elements that Biden is raising today with his speech, as he also is starting to come a little bit full circle to where he was at the start of his campaign. He launched his campaign, in part, after seeing those scenes in Charlottesville, upset with the way that the president spewed hate and division, Biden said.

Today, that is something that he turned back to, calling this president toxic and asking if Americans are ready to rid themselves of the toxin that he believes President Trump is -- Pamela.

BROWN: OK. Arlette, thank you so much for bringing us the latest there.

And I want brought them bring in CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson, senior political reporter, and Laura Coates, CNN legal analyst.

Great to see you both, ladies.

Nia, I want to start with you, because President Trump is playing up his law and order campaign message and trying to paint Joe Biden as someone who is weak on crime, partly because of polls like this one, Trump favorability down to 31 percent from 35 percent before the conventions, while Biden is up 46 percent from 40 percent before the conventions.

Does Biden's speech today, where he once again condemned the violence, as we heard and that we have seen it in Portland and Kenosha, undercut Trump's strategy?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It does.

And, as you said, he's been out there condemning violence, as have people who've been involved in these protests. So I think this very much was a corrective. It was sort of a fact-check. You saw Donald Trump with all of his allies last week really trying to brand Joe Biden over and over again as weak on crime, as somebody who would be beholden to the radical left, as they like to say, people like Bernie Sanders, people like AOC.

So there was Joe Biden in a very important area of a very important state, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, really trying to brand himself and take control of the narrative that they worry about really taking hold, particularly in areas like Pittsburgh, particularly in suburbs among white Americans, who do have some anxiety about a changing America, do have anxiety about some of the things that they are seeing in places like Pittsburgh, in places like Kenosha as well.

So you saw him really chapter and verse I think fact-check this president, essentially say, all of the violence that Donald Trump is pointing to is happening on his watch. He is the president now, even though he likes to act like he is a bystander, Joe Biden said.

So I thought it was a very effective speech and a necessary speech as well, given what we saw last week from this president.

BROWN: And it was interesting to see how the Trump campaign responded with this statement, Laura.

And here's what it said in part, that "Biden failed to condemn the left-wing mobs burning looting and terrorizing American cities."

But let's listen to Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I will be very clear about all this. Rioting is not protesting. Looting is not protesting. Setting fires is not protesting. None of this is protesting.

It's lawlessness, plain and simple. And those who do it should be prosecuted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Your reaction, Laura?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that sounds unequivocal to me. It sounds like it's actually doing the opposite of what the statement says that he fails to do.

And so he actually is unequivocal in the statement. He is being quite clear about the distinction between peaceful protests and those that are hijacking the message. This is a common refrain, of course, that people have had to defend against.

You have people who are righteously protesting what they see as excessive force and police brutality. And then you have people who are coming in and exploiting these opportunities for self-gain and engaging in criminal behavior.

These are not synonymous groups of people who are engaged in that, and he was drawing a lot to that, while also recognizing, of course, that people have every right to be able to protest in a peaceful manner.

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So, the president trying to suggest, as Nia-Malika was alluding to, the idea of rebranding it or in some way, shape or form trying to distance themselves and place this at the foot of Joe Biden, when his presidency, unless he is elected or until he's elected, would be an abstract concept. He's trying to, on the one hand, have his cake and eat it, too, by

saying, look, it may be my country, but, actually, you know what, it's not in my particular city. It's, as he calls it, Democrat-run.

But, remember, he's the head of the executive branch of government. Their job is to enforce the laws, and anyone who is in line with that, with Joe Biden's statement is, should be supported by the president.

BROWN: And just to put it into context, because that was that was a big part of it, looking ahead, this imaginary Biden America, Joe Biden was vice president.

So, what was the situation like when it came to crime stats and violence when he was vice president?

HENDERSON: Right.

And he talked about that in his speech. He said violent crime was down 15 percent, I believe, while the murder rate under Donald Trump, I think is up something like 26 percent. I think that was the stat that Joe Biden said.

We should also remember that, when Donald Trump accepted the nomination for the Republican Party, he said this kind of violent crime would end on his watch. He also said the same thing when he was inaugurated in January 2017.

His phrase was something like, this American carnage would end, talking about some of the violence in cities and in states across the country. So this, again, is a failure to deliver on what he said.

So, he's trying to run on this same message. Back in 2016, in many ways, it was about what he would like to call illegal immigrants and the chant was, build the wall. And now he is really, I think, focusing on these Black Lives Matter protesters, on black and brown people, who have legitimate complaints about systemic racism, as well as police brutality.

Donald Trump is saying, there is no real police brutality, there is no systemic racism. And I think that's going to be kind of the dividing line for this contest. Who believes that systemic racism is a major problem and who believes it's a made-up problem?

And that's how you see, I think, the electorate divide itself.

BROWN: And it was interesting.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Go ahead.

COATES: I was going to say, it's also odd, if you think about it, based on the point that you just raised, Pam, on this issue of the idea that Joe Biden is considered to be soft on crime.

And one of the things that he faced as an uphill battle and a hurdle to overcome during his campaign, when you had dozens of people running for the DNC nomination, was that his view history on crime, his ideas about the omnibus bill, his ideas of the crack cocaine distinction and beyond, were some that people touted as saying, look at the way in which he viewed the criminal justice system in a way that even furthered perhaps systemic racism that people criticized him about, or in many ways were against what he now believed.

And so now the president is almost repackaging in a way that Joe Biden himself is saying: Look, I'm not soft on crime because I believe in protest. He's saying: I am very different from the person who supported the prior legislation. But I still believe that law and order should prevail.

And he was consistent today.

BROWN: Really quick, before I let you both go, I want to get your reaction to what we heard in the White House press briefing today, when vigilante violence was brought up.

The press secretary was asked about that, if the president condemns it. And here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCENANY: This White House believes our police should be fully funded, we should have more police, rather than less, we shouldn't criticize our police because it is our police officers who are responsible for taking to this streets and protecting us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, not exactly a condemnation, Nia, of vigilante violence.

HENDERSON: Right, not at all.

And we know that this president feels. If a protester or someone who was violent or somebody who believes in conspiracy theories supports him and backs him and is sort of wearing Trump garb and waving a Trump flag, then he likes them, no matter what kind of actions they commit.

And we saw that here, I think. I would be surprised if the president ever came out to criticize that band of people you saw in Portland in those trucks and waving of those Trump flags descend on that area in Portland.

So, this is the president. If you're for him, no matter what you stand for and what you do, the president tends to like you.

BROWN: All right, Nia-Malika Henderson, Laura Coates, thank you so much, ladies.

And up next: a top Trump official raising the possibility that a vaccine will be released before the usual trials are complete -- how a group of doctors is banding together in response.

Plus: supporters of extreme conspiracy theories among protesters in Europe. What some are saying about Donald Trump -- just ahead.

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BROWN: Turning to our health lead now, more than 6 million COVID cases in the U.S. and now, a bitter debate over vaccine approval is breaking out, with a group of prominent doctors calling for an independent review of coronavirus vaccine data after the FDA commissioner said he would consider emergency use authorization or approval for a vaccine before phase three trials are done.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher takes a look at the pressure and pushback over a vaccine rollout.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is growing concern political pressure could be rushing the COVID-19 vaccine process after FDA commissioner, Dr. Stephen Hahn, said the agency might consider emergency use authorization or approve even if a vaccine developer applies before phase three trials are complete.

ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES: So he's not talking about data. He's basically laying the grounds work for him to be able to say that he believes that the benefit outweighs the harm, which is not a scientific standard we should use for this vaccine that we're going to put into tens of millions of people.

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GALLAGHER: Hahn dismissed concerns, telling "The Financial Times," quote: We have a convergence of the COVID-19 pandemic with the political season and we're just going to have to get through that and stick to our core principles. This is going to be a science, medicine, data decision. This is not going to be a political decision.

Still, one group of medical experts is calling for an independent review board to review the data before the vaccine is approved by the FDA, which could boost public trust.

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, FORMER CDC DISEASE DETECTIVE: Many people have to get vaccinated. If we don't, we can have a vaccine and it won't do us any good.

GALLAGHER: Especially as it's looking more likely the eventual coronavirus vaccine might require more than one dose.

White House task force member, Dr. Deborah Birx, is urging people to take precautions now, before there's a vaccine.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: I'm hopeful for a vaccine, but I'm also very convinced right now that we can stop community spread by wearing masks, socially distancing and avoiding crowds. GALLAGHER: As the United States crosses over the 6 million confirmed

coronavirus case mark, there are some areas of improvement. Over the past two weeks, on average daily new cases are down about 18 percent and new deaths per day by roughly 11 percent.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: This is good news and it's largely because of smart policies in Texas and Arizona and Florida around masking and closing bars. But there's still parts of the country where things are both bad and even getting worse, in the Dakotas, in Kansas and other states.

GALLAGHER: And college campuses are becoming an example of how quickly the virus can spread. Cases at colleges and universities have now been reported in at least 36 states. At SUNY Oneonta, a lesson in exponential spread.

JIM MALATRAS, CHANCELLOR, STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK: We noticed that there was a large party early last week that resulted in several COVID cases. Twenty COVID cases became 105 cases. We stepped in immediately.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GALLAGHER: And Dr. Deborah Birx also says for those students who are on campus, before they go home and visit they need to quarantine for 14 days, Pamela, so they don't risk getting their family members or anybody back in their homes sick.

BROWN: All right. Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much for that.

And joining me now to discuss this, the chief clinical officer at Providence Health System, Dr. Anne Compton Phillips.

Thank you so much for coming on.

First of all, would you walk us through the difference between an emergency use authorization versus an FDA approval. Why -- what is the significance with that difference?

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CHIEF CLINICAL OFFICER, PROVIDENCE HEALTH SYSTEM: Sure. Well, everything the FDA does actually has to balance safety and speed so that when something new comes to market, you want it to be both. But during the time of a public health emergency, which is the only time you can use the emergency use authorization, speed becomes more important than ensuring absolute 100 percent safety.

And so, the emergency use authorization allows us to do a more rapid approval with less data than we would have for a normal times when you're not under this need to move very, very rapidly.

BROWN: So is it possible then for the FDA to give approval and then say the benefits outweighs the known risks if the company hasn't finished the phase three trial yet?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: It is possible to do the emergency use authorization, although I would definitely worry about this, which is exactly why the large group of physicians spoke up, that typically in a phase three trial, you're still doing an experiment. You're still actually testing whether or not the vaccine is safe and effective. During the time of an experiment, you would ask people to give informed consent, saying yes, I consent to this, that we don't exactly know what's happening.

So, we haven't yet had full proof for something like a vaccine. Then, are we going to get informed consenting on every patient being able to get access to the vaccine? It would definitely add layers of complexity to something that we normally think of as, but that we want to use broadly for all phases of public health.

BROWN: OK. So, just on that note, just so we understand, for those of us who aren't in the weeds on this, so, if a vaccine -- there are the vaccines in phase three trial. What does it take to get to that point? Like, so, what data is available and what is the significance of that data versus what you would get at the end of the phase three trial waiting for that to end?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Phase one and two trials are quite small and they really are looking at, do we have the right dose and do we see the right molecular response? Are we getting antibodies? Phase three trials are the ones to say, does it work in human beings? Those take tens of thousands of people and significant time to say, does it take work and does it have side effects?

And just, you know, what we're thinking about, is like back in the 1976 swine flu vaccine trials that we did or vaccine actually that we did, we found that there was side effects.

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There's something called Guillain-Barre syndrome which caused temporary paralysis, which is really, you know, horrible for people to go through. And it's that kind rare side effect that we look at for tens of thousands of people in phase three trials. If we short circuit that, we just won't be able to say with confidence to people getting this vaccine that this is safe and effective.

BROWN: And you think about that and look at the CNN poll. This is stunning to me. This is a CNN poll that looked on whether Americans would try a vaccine. Fifty-six percent of Americans would get the vaccine, a 10-point decrease from May, and 40 percent of Americans say they wouldn't get a vaccine.

Are you concerned that comments like the one we heard from Hahn will further erode trust in the vaccine?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: I am absolutely concerned. You know, we've had mixed messages about vaccines coming from our government without having full and unequivocal support and without having credibility that is unassailable from the CDC and the FDA. There's been a few decisions that have been made recently that feel more political than science based.

And having politics creep into what should be purely based on science and medical knowledge has eroded confidence in the process. And so, by doing something like having an independent commission made up of scientists who understand the statistics and are able to speak really from nonpolitical, nonbiased medical knowledge, I think we can start removing the rhetoric and getting back to basing this in really what is safe, what's effective and what works best for most people.

BROWN: Given how the PPE has been distributed during this pandemic, are you concerned that the distribution of a potential vaccine won't be as effective as it should be?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: There is the PPE issues, there's remdesivir issues, there's not really understanding the data about what's where because moving the data sources away from the CDC. So, yes, having transparency and having -- understanding the process and understanding that the rules of the road are being followed regularly by everyone would be incredibly helpful.

BROWN: All right. Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, thank you so much for coming on.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, without a vaccine yet that's approved, there is a controversial proposal to end the pandemic that one expert estimates could lead to 2 million deaths in the U.S.

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