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German Government: Alexei Navalny Poisoned with Nerve Agent; Some Russian Teachers Raise Concerns over Vaccine; 25K+ Cases at Colleges and Universities in 37 U.S. States; Trump Wants Biden Drug Tested ahead of Debate; "Charlie Hebdo" Republishes Controversial Cartoons; Israel and Hamas Reach Deal over Border Violence. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired September 02, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: And breaking news to bring you this hour. We are getting word from the German government about the cause of Alexei Navalny's

illness.

A statement says that the Russian opposition figure was poisoned with a chemical nerve agent. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Berlin; Matthew Chance is

with us in Moscow.

Fred, let's start with you.

What are the latest details, as you understand them?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're just getting the details in and, Becky, it seems quite troubling because the

German government saying it has found out without any sort of reasonable doubt that it was an agent from the Novichok group.

And that was the same agent that was used to poison Sergei Skripal and his daughter, the one with the Salisbury incident that was traced back to the

Russian government as well.

So the German government coming out with a very, very strong statement. I want to read you part of it -- and you have to bear with me, Becky. I'm

translating this from German and -- as I go.

And it says, according to the Charite Hospital, the German military lab -- or a German military lab -- was tasked with a toxicological -- finding out

what happened to Alexei Navalny. They then said that the results came back and showed without any sort of doubt proof of the nerve agent, Novichok, or

from the Novichok group.

And it says that Alexei Navalny was delivered into hospital on August 22nd. Then it essentially it says that the entire heads of the German government

have debated about this and have come together -- Angela Merkel, Germany's vice chancellor; the German defense minister as well because the German

military was involved.

It then says this is an outrageous thing that happened, that Alexei Navalny was poisoned with a chemical nerve agent. The German got says they condemn

this in the sharpest form.

And then this is a pretty strong wording here coming from the German government. It says the Russian government is urgently called upon to

explain itself. And they also say, the Germans, that they are going to work together with the Organization for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons, the

OPCW.

So certainly this is now a big international incident that the Germans are essentially going to bring this to the OPCW. The Germans are also saying

that they have already, of course, spoken to Navalny's wife and have spoken to the doctors treating him here in Berlin.

So certainly the Germans are saying they believe this is a big escalation in all of this and the Germans are saying that Novichok, something usually

traced back to a government, that would have been manufactured in a government lab and the Germans in no uncertain terms say they want an

explanation from Moscow, saying this is an extremely troubling thing, especially troubling with the relations between Germany and Russia but also

pertaining to Navalny himself.

ANDERSON: Matthew Chance is in Moscow -- stand by, Fred.

The German authorities are demanding an explanation.

Will they get it, Matthew?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think that's pretty unlikely. Within the past few minutes, there's been a statement from

the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov.

He said that the Kremlin has not been informed of the German conclusions that Novichok was used to poison Alexei Navalny. So what they're saying at

this stage, look, we haven't been told about this. This is the first we have heard of it, essentially.

Of course we have been down this path before. In March 2018, when Sergei Skripal, the former Russian military agent, and his daughter, Yulia, was

were poisoned in Salisbury with a Novichok nerve agent, back then the finger of blame fell squarely on the Russian authorities.

In fact, two individuals were believed to have been from the GRU, the Russian military intelligence, who were identified by the British

investigators as being those responsible for actually smearing the Novichok over the door handle of Skripal's house in Salisbury and, thereby, sort of

committing the poisoning.

What we got from Russia is a categorical denial that it was anything to do with them. They reacted quite violently.

[10:05:00]

CHANCE: They said, this is propaganda put out by the British. And the Russians accepted no responsibility at all. I think it's everyone's

expectation at this point, it's the same kind of attitude you'll get from the Kremlin this time.

In terms of what consequences could be against Russia for carrying out what would indeed be another nerve agent poisoning of a -- this time of Alexei

Navalny, a leading anti-corruption campaigner in the country, well, the consequences of the Skripal poisoning with Novichok, in terms of diplomatic

censure, were quite severe.

There were mass expulsion of Russian diplomats from Britain, from European countries, from the United States as well. And so, you know, there could

well be very strong sanctions, diplomatic action and rebukes against Russia, now that the Germans have said that Novichok is believed to be the

nerve agent that poisoned Navalny.

ANDERSON: Fred, Alexei Navalny, meantime, remains in a German hospital. How is he?

PLEITGEN: Yes. Well, so far, the Germans, they continue to give updates on Navalny has been doing and there hasn't been much of a change in his

condition. The Germans say he continues to be in a coma.

And essentially the way that they keep wording, they say, his life is no longer in danger. But obviously, his condition is still so bad that they're

keeping him in that artificial coma for the time being.

The big question being asked here, so far doctors say they don't want to really speculate or want to talk about yet, is what sort of damage Navalny

could carry forth from all of this, how long it might take him to come back.

It certainly seems at this point in time Alexei Navalny will survive the attack with Novichok.

But the big question, of course, is right now, is he ever going to be the way that he was before?

Is there going to be lasting damage in all of this?

And obviously right now the Germans say they're not in a position yet to say whether or not that is going to be the case. But looking at the fact

that he's been here at the Charite Hospital, which no doubt is by far the best German hospital for these sort of conditions and obviously is getting

treatment not just from the doctors there but as we have learned, the German military doctors are involved in this as well.

He's been in that hospital since August 22nd and so far, there hasn't been a significant change that would have been announced by with the German

government or by the hospital itself.

So certainly right now, it still seems as though his situation is dire. He's still in the coma, despite the fact that the doctors are saying that,

the hospital is saying that he is going to survive this attack.

ANDERSON: Fred Pleitgen in Berlin, thank you, Fred.

Matthew, stick with me because I want to turn to the coronavirus pandemic. In Russia, schools are reopening, as we understand it, as the country

surpasses over 1 million cases. The intersection of them both are so concerning that a teacher's union has launched a petition against the

country's COVID vaccine -- a source of pride, of course, for the government -- saying more testing is needed.

We will get to schools in a moment. But a big development obviously that we have been discussing, which we have done.

So just tell us what do we know about what is going on with regard to these teachers and this vaccine?

CHANCE: Yes. Well, I mean, look, I mean Russia is still in the middle of this huge global pandemic. It's passed a very grim milestone in the past 24

hours, more than a million people now infected or confirmed as infected with coronavirus.

But it's also had to, you know, juggle at the same time as many other countries, getting kids back to school. It's been sort of interesting, all

sorts of measures to try to make sure they're as safe as possible.

But it's the only country in the world that has approved what it says is a vaccine, which it says is effective. And it's made that vaccine available

to key workers like teachers.

But you know, the fact is human trials on that vaccine have not been completed. The clinical data has not been made public so it hasn't been

peer reviewed. And there's a great deal of suspicion amongst the teachers over whether that vaccine is safe and effective.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (voice-over): Starting school can be daunting, even without a pandemic. But Russia is putting on a brave show. It says it has a vaccine

after all, approved for use on this COVID frontline.

[10:05:00]

CHANCE: Well, it's the first day of school here, the first time since March that Russian classrooms have reopened amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

It's very exciting for the kids.

Their teachers, who are meant to be among the first to benefit from Russia's new coronavirus vaccine, but what we are learning is that few, if

any, have taken up the offer to be vaccinated.

We were given access to one of Moscow's top schools where some measures like testing and teachers and face masks have been implemented.

And I have seen that they are not using face masks. They're not --

But no one we spoke to here had taken the Russian vaccine, even though teachers, along with doctors, are meant to have been given first access

after the vaccine was fast-tracked to approval before completing phase three human trials.

There is some concern that it might not be safe, it might not be effective. Have you heard that concern amongst your colleagues? Amongst teachers that

they are worried about the vaccine?

MARIA ZATOLOKINA, DEPUTY HEAD, SCHOOL 1363: Actually, we haven't discussed it yet. But I think that every teacher understands how important to be safe

and to create a safe environment for our students to be healthy. That's why I hope that we are possible people and we should -- we should be

vaccinated.

CHANCE: Are you going to have the vaccine?

ZATOLOKINA: Yes, of course.

CHANCE: Definitely?

ZATOLOKINA: Definitely.

CHANCE: But there are others who say they definitely want. One Russian teacher's union has started an online petition, calling on members to

reject the vaccine outright on safety grounds and expressing concern that vaccination, currently voluntary, should not be made mandatory unless

clinical trials are complete.

YURI VARLAMOV, TEACHER, UCHITEL UNION MEMBER: Before the end of all testing, they cannot make it mandatory. But I know that in some schools, in

some state bodies, people are talking about mandatory status of this vaccine in the end of this year.

CHANCE: Do you think that's a sort of political decision?

Do you think it's important for the Russian authorities to make sure everybody has this vaccine, whether or not it works, whether or not it's

safe?

VARLAMOV: Yes. Sure. That's a very political decision, because skills of government to make the life of people safe is a very important point in

Russia.

CHANCE (voice-over): And so is showing Russia's widely criticized vaccine to be a success. Teachers can refuse it now but not, perhaps, for much

longer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, Becky, what this is really about is what happens when you try to fast-track a vaccine like this. If you cut short human trials. If

you don't do everything that's possible to convince people that it's, you know, safe and effective to take, you're not going to get the kind of

pickup that the authorities would ideally want.

That's what Russia is currently experiencing, Becky.

ANDERSON: Fascinating, such a race for this vaccine around the world. Shortcuts, though, will not be tolerated by the general public. Thank you,

Matthew.

Well, the way that COVID is affecting education is, of course, a global issue. Cases breaking out in college campuses across the United States as

students make their way back to the classroom as well. So far, more than 25,000 infections have been reported in colleges and universities in nearly

40 states.

CNN spoke to the wife of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden about the challenges facing students of all ages and what her husband would do to

solve them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JILL BIDEN, JOE'S WIFE: Joe Biden will listen to the educators. So he's already planning to give funds to schools so that they have enough

supplies. He's already talking about handling some of the broadband issues and investing in broadband so that every child across America will have

access to the Internet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Of course, Internet access is a huge issue for the millions of kids returning to online learning, not just in the States but around the

world, absolutely everywhere. CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now from Atlanta.

With regard to the 25,000 cases amongst college students, Dr. Fauci says the worst thing you could do is send those infected home now, risking

further the spread around the country.

Are schools -- what are schools doing to localize these outbreaks?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, there doesn't seem to be any one thing that schools are doing. Some schools are saying,

oh, look at these outbreaks.

[10:15:00]

COHEN: Maybe we should do more remote learning. Maybe students should go home. Those are not -- there's no sort of one thing that's happening here.

But you know that's a very interesting point.

I mean, once a student gets sick, sending them home sends the infection and possible transmission back to potentially another location.

But then you also have to wonder, OK, well, if they do decide that they want to, you know, send everybody home, you're sending potentially infected

students home, who didn't even know were infected, who are asymptomatic or presymptomatic. So these are difficult things to make under these

circumstances.

ANDERSON: In your report, meantime, suggesting a 17 percent increase in COVID-19 cases in the U.S. amongst children over a two-week period. This in

a week when kids are on their way back to school. The same report does say that it appears that severe illness due to COVID-19 is rare amongst kids.

Be that as it may, this is likely to worry parents as their children begin to return to school.

Are they safe?

COHEN: You know, I think that it is not shocking that we have seen this increase over the past two weeks, Becky, because, here in the U.S., that's

when people started -- that's when children started going back to school. It was about two weeks ago.

So you know, any parent can tell you, once a child goes back to school, there's more colds, there's more other kinds of viruses; you know, pre-

COVID we knew this. I would be shocked if there wasn't an increase among children.

So parents have to decide, what do they want to do here?

If their school is going back to school, do they have the option of not sending their child?

Is that something they can do?

I think what we have learned over the experience over the past couple of weeks is that asking children to social distance in a real and true way and

wear masks really consistently is tough. Children do not naturally social distance. This is a tough ask. And it's unclear how well it's happening in

schools, even with all the best of intentions.

ANDERSON: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much, indeed.

Mr. Trump wants to pull the conversation away from the coronavirus and instead on to himself as a law and order president. But in doing so, he's

seemingly refusing to address America's other big pressing epidemic, if you will, racism.

He traveled to Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Tuesday over the objections of the state's governor and the city's mayor to tour the damage from protests that

followed the police shooting of Jacob Blake.

Now he dodged a reporter's question about racism, instead, turning the subject back to violence in American cities, using another city, Portland,

Oregon, to boost what many says is a false claim that Democratic-run cities are in constant chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Do you believe systemic racism is a problem in this country?

TRUMP: Well, you know, you just keep getting back to the opposite subject. We should talk about the kind of violence that we have seen in Portland and

here and other places. It's tremendous violence. You always get to the other side -- well, what do you think about this or that?

The fact is that, we have seen tremendous violence and we will put it out very, very quickly if given the chance. And that's what this is all about.

I think the police do an incredible job. And I think you do have some bad apples. I think you'd have to agree, every once in a while you'll see

something.

And you do have the other situation too, where they're under this tremendous pressure and they don't handle it well. They call it choking and

it happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: That comment on choking first came in a TV interview before the Kenosha trip when Donald Trump compared violent police actions against

people of color to missing a short golf putt.

Now the president didn't mention Jacob Blake's name once during his visit. He instead alluded to what happened to him as a tragedy. But it was his

failure to specifically mention Jacob Blake. That was brought up by Blake's father during an interview on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACOB BLAKE SR., JACOB BLAKE'S FATHER: My son's name is Jacob Blake. If you didn't mention it, then you don't care about him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Racial justice or injustice will be a key issue in the upcoming debates, the first one scheduled just under a month from now. These are the

presidential debates, of course, and Donald Trump wants a fairly unusual process carried out ahead of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, he's on some kind of an enhancement in my opinion and I say we should both -- I should take a drug test, so should he.

[10:20:00]

TRUMP: Because we don't want to have a situation where a guy is taking some kind of a --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So like athletes, like a --

TRUMP: No, no, he should take -- I want to take one. I'll take one. He'll take one. We should both take a drug test.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, next hour, I'll be speaking about that and other issues with the executive director of The Lincoln Project. Sarah Lenti will be

joining me and they put together ads like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am the law and order candidate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Trump is the most corrupt president in U.S. history. There's only one way to end the Trump crime spree. Throw him

and his crooks out of office. On November 3rd, vote for justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: We will challenge Sarah on all of that.

You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. There's a lot more to come.

A group of attackers tried to silence a French magazine with bullets five years ago. Well, now that magazine is making a very loud move as the

attackers' accomplices go on trial.

Plus, the French president Emmanuel Macron becomes the first Western leader to visit Iraq since the government took over in May. We'll show you

that later on in the show.

Plus, Lionel Messi's father arrives in Spain. The latest on his son's megamillion dollar contract holdup with Barcelona and what his father hopes

to do about it.

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ANDERSON: "One cannot rewrite history, neither can it be erased." That's the words from France's "Charlie Hebdo" magazine as it republishes several

controversial cartoons on the latest cover.

One is the 2006 cover that depicts the Prophet Muhammad, one of the drawings that made them the target of a 2015 terror attack that left 17

people dead. The magazine will also include a tribute to the employees who died in that attack.

This comes as a trial gets underway in Paris related to the attack; 14 people who allegedly helped the jihadist gunmen are finally facing charges.

CNN's Melissa Bell covered the story in 2015 and she joins us from Paris.

Talk about the timeline, what is going on right now?

And do reminders of the events that day some five years back?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, I think it's crucial that we cast our minds back and it wasn't until I arrived at the courtroom this morning

and witnessed as members of the public and the press can, through special rooms that have been created with giant screens and that you can follow the

proceedings live, it wasn't until I found myself in front of the screen and watching the proceedings as -- the defense began to explain its case.

[10:25:00]

BELL: When the prosecution outlined its case against them I remembered how emotionally charged this had been, because it was an attack on the press,

because so much of it was carried live, because it involved not one but two sieges and the deaths, of course, of 17 people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BELL (voice-over): It began at 11:33 on the morning of January 7th, 2015, in Paris's 11th District. (INAUDIBLE) burst into the offices of the French

satirical magazine, "Charlie Hebdo," killing 11 people, many of them journalists, as they held their morning editorial meeting.

A 12th person, a policeman assigned to the protection of Stephane "Charb" Charbonnier, one of the magazine's cartoonists, was also killed. "Charlie

Hebdo" had been the target of threats ever since its publication in 2006 of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

As they fled the Qurashi brothers killed a policeman on the boulevard before disappearing. The following morning, with a manhunt underway, a

police woman was killed in the south of Paris by an accomplice of the brothers.

On the next day, Amedy Coulibaly took several hostages at a Kosher supermarket to the east of Paris. Four people were killed, as was

Coulibaly, after the supermarket was stormed by Special Forces.

That same day, after they had taken a man hostage to the north of Paris, the Qurashi brothers were also killed by Special Forces.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BELL: Because those perpetrators were killed over the course of three days of violence in January 2015, the people who are on trial over the course of

the next 48 days were people who are suspected of having brought logistical support. Three are being tried in absentia, three who fled France in the

days in the run-up to the attacks, heading for Syria. One of them is the wife of Amedy Coulibaly.

ANDERSON: Melissa Bell is in Paris, thank you.

Well, you won't see those cartoons on CNN, on television or on our website. We don't think it's necessary to show them, as we know that they are

extremely offensive to many Muslims around the world.

And they are available online for those of you who want to see them. We do, of course, fully respect the rights of "Charlie Hebdo" to make full use of

their press freedoms and make their own decisions.

Well, still ahead on CONNECT THE WORLD, Israel is on a roll, making more deals toward peace in the Middle East. We will hear from an expert on the

changing political landscape in just a moment.

And British street artist Banksy has bought a rescue ship for migrants stranded in the Mediterranean. We'll speak about its first operation in

the next hour of CONNECT THE WORLD.

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[10:30:00]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.

ANDERSON: Well, breaking news this hour. The German government says there is evidence the Russian opposition politician, Alexei Navalny, was poisoned

with a chemical nerve agent from the Novichok group.

Now the Kremlin has responded by saying it has not received any direct word from Germany on the matter -- that's according to Russia's TASS news

agency. Navalny was taken from Russia to Berlin late last month during symptoms of poisoning.

And you may remember that Novichok is the nerve agent that poisoned a former Russian military officer and his daughter in Salisbury in 2018. More

on Navalny's condition as we get it here on CNN.

Well, Israel has made a deal with Hamas to restore calm with Gaza. A recent uptick in clashes has caused smoke to be a frequent sight on Gaza City's

skyline. This shows one of the many attacks by both sides in recent weeks along the Israeli-Gaza border.

Well, now with the help of a Qatari diplomat, Hamas and Israel have reached a deal to stop those border attacks. Under the arrangement, the Palestinian

Islamist group Hamas will stop launching fire bomb balloons into Israel and Israel will cease airstrikes on Gaza.

Hamas says it paves the way for projects, quote, "that will serve the people of Gaza and alleviate suffering."

COGAT, Israel's liaison agency for the Palestinian Territories, warns Hamas that calm must continue or Israel will, and I quote, "act accordingly."

Well, this agreement, of course, comes on the heels of the recently brokered peace deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, a link

that my next guest has drawn attention to, writing, "It's not peace but Hamas, too, is on the road to normalizing relations with Israel."

Martin Indyk has worn many hats when it comes to Israel, including serving as U.S. ambassador and U.S. special envoy. He's also a distinguished fellow

for the Council on Foreign Relations.

A good friend of this show, joining me via Skype.

Martin, there have been several truces between Israel and Hamas. A few have lasted so let's start with this news.

What's different this time?

MARTIN INDYK, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, a couple of nuances that I think are important. First of all, you're right that there have been many

truces. But this one is one in which Hamas trumpeted the fact that it reached an agreement with Israel.

And the president of Israel, Reuven Rivlin, tweeted thanks to Qatar for mediating it. It's in a sense a coming out of the closet, even for Hamas

and Israel, when it comes to these truce arrangements that they have been making in the past.

And I think what's important about it in the broad streak of history is two things.

First of all, Hamas has always been faced with the dilemma, once they took over control of Gaza by force from the Palestinian Authority.

They have always been faced with the dilemma, do you feed the people or fight Israel?

And Israel has exploited that dilemma by putting pressure on them, by firing rockets on Israeli villages and towns in the south of Israel,

putting on pressure by stopping the flow of vital supplies, such as oil for the energy production, electricity production.

And Hamas over time has come down on the side of feeding the people rather than firing on Israel. So that's the manifestation of what you've got here.

ANDERSON: Yes. That's fascinating. And I'm interested to see Hamas themselves say how this deal paves the way for projects that will serve the

people of Gaza and alleviate suffering. What those are we can discuss at a different point because I do want to just allude to something you wrote in

"Foreign Affairs."

You write, "Indeed, Netanyahu is now busy convincing the Israelis that they can now expect peace for peace on the UAE model and no longer need to make

territorial concessions. That may make peace with the Palestinians even less possible.

[10:35:00]

ANDERSON: "Still if the flame of peace, reignited again by Israeli-Emirati normalization, is to continue to burn, something more serious must be done

to promote a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

This, of course, one of the world's more intractable conflicts.

Is peace for Palestinians a priority for the Trump administration, who effectively helped broker that UAE-Emirati deal?

They didn't come up with it. You and I know that. But it's a win for the Trump administration, six weeks ahead of an election.

INDYK: Well, they're certainly trying to trumpet it as a peace deal and magnify it for electoral purposes, as you suggest. We're going to have in

Washington the spectacle of a -- of some kind of signing ceremony like we have seen in the past, when in 1993, Yasser Arafat shook hands with Yitzhak

Rabin on the White House lawn, the signing of the Oslo Peace Accords.

But this is not a peace agreement. The Abraham accord is not called a peace agreement. It's a normalization agreement. UAE and Israel have never been

in conflict. They're far away from each other. There are no issues in dispute, except, of course, the Palestinian issue.

And what the UAE managed to do in this case was to take annexation of Palestinian territory off the table -- to quote Donald Trump -- and that

has helped to prevent the annexation process from going ahead.

But it hasn't done anything to actually promote some kind of reconciliation between Israel and the Palestinians, particularly the Palestinians in the

West Bank, which is (INAUDIBLE).

In Gaza you have this truce we have been discussing. But the negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians have been also off the table since

2014, when I had the non-colleague (ph) pleasure of preceding over those negotiations, which ended in failure.

And it's unclear but unlikely, I think, that the Israeli-UAE accord is going to prompt an Israeli-Palestinian negotiation under American auspices,

because the only plan on the table is the Trump peace plan, which is fundamentally unfair and unbalanced when it comes to the Palestinians.

ANDERSON: So you have referred to the Palestinians belly aching about normalization.

What do they need to do next?

And I'm talking about the Palestinian leadership, because, you know, the foreign minister here is talking to the Palestinian community in the UAE

during a trip here from Tel Aviv.

There's some half a million people of Palestinian descent here. They helped build the country. I mean, the Palestinian leadership does not necessarily

talk these days for all Palestinians.

What do they need to do next to ensure there's some sort of dialogue going forward and the prospect, indeed, of a future state for Palestinians?

INDYK: OK, I used the strong word for a reason. Palestinians need to recognize that their strategy of holding the Arab world back on

normalization with Israel until their demands for an independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as the state capital, were met.

And that was part of the Arab peace initiative, which was agreed that they would wait until the Palestinians did that deal. That was 18 years ago. And

the Palestinians, there are a lot of reasons for this to do with Israel's right-wing government.

But nevertheless, the Palestinians have not been able to come up with a strategy to take advantage of that position. And in the meantime, Arab

states like the UAE and Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, Sudan now, have all grown tired of waiting because they have a more serious threat to their own

interests now coming from Iran.

And Israel, in the context of America retrenching from the region, Israel becomes the one reliable partner that they can work with to counter and

deter Iran. Israel is at the moment fighting Iran in Syria, sometimes in Iraq, sometimes in Lebanon.

[10:40:00]

INDYK: And so what you have is the UAE taking the lead here in bringing their relationship with Israel, which has developed over the last 18 years,

slowly, quietly under the radar, but now it's being taken out and in full light of day. We have a strategic partnership between Israel and the UAE.

Can Saudi Arabia be far behind?

They already today announced they'll allow direct flights between Israel and UAE over Saudi territory. The writing is on the wall.

And my point to the Palestinians is it's time to read what's written there. Their anti-normalization campaign has failed -- or is failing. They need to

come up with a new strategy.

Criticizing the UAE, accusing them of betrayal doesn't get them anywhere. Playing the victim is something that they have reason to use as a card.

After all, they have been victimized, if you like. But playing the victim doesn't get them their rights.

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: Martin --

INDYK: Doesn't get them an independent Palestinian state. And so it's time --

ANDERSON: -- we never have enough time. It's gone. Yes. I'm going to have to stop you there because I have got to take a break. It's always a

pleasure. Never enough time.

Your insight and analysis is always important when we talk about Iran as a sort of, you know, new bogeyman, specter for so many countries in the

region. You can argue you can add Turkey to the list as well. We can have that discussion another time. As ever, an absolute pleasure. Thank you,

sir.

Coming up, Lionel Messi's dad is trying to help sort things out as the football star tries to settle his very messy and very expensive exit from

Barcelona.

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ANDERSON: When you are in a bit of a pickle, who are you going to call?

Ghostbusters?

Well, for multimillion dollar contract negotiations, probably not.

What about Dad. The father of one of football's biggest stars gliding in by private jet for backup after his son's bid to leave his club slid into,

well, a bit of a mess.

(WORLD SPORT)

[11:00:00]

END