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The Situation Room
Interview With Rep. Val Demings (D-FL); Interview With NIH Director, Dr. Francis Collins; Barr Defends Trump's Accusation Of Treason Against Opponents; Germany Says, Nerve Agent Used In Poisoning Of Russian Dissident; CDC Makes Extraordinary Move To Temporarily Halt Evictions. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired September 02, 2020 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:01]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Meanwhile, Dr. Anthony Fauci is warning Americans not to let their guard down at all.
Dr. Fauci says the Labor Day weekend that's upcoming could lead to a new surge of infections, urging people -- and I'm quoting now -- "to be part of the solution, not part of the problem."
The director of National Institutes of Health, Dr. Francis Collins, he is standing by live. We will discuss all of this in just a few moments. Lots of breaking news unfolding.
But let's begin on the breaking news coverage on the coronavirus pandemic with CNN's Dianne Gallagher.
Dianne, the CDC is telling states to prepare for a vaccine, what, as soon the end of October. That would be just before the November 3 election here in the United States. So, tell us what you have learned.
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.
These scenario documents that were out by the CDC to different public health officials all across the country tell them to prepare, giving them two different scenarios here. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that we will have a vaccine by late October, but it definitely shows that there is something in the works.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Start to preparing to distribute a COVID vaccine as soon as late October, that is what the CDC has told public health officials across the country, providing distribution scenarios for two different potential vaccines, prioritizing certain groups for a vaccine, if approved, like health care workers.
But there is still no guarantee for a vaccine. The U.S. jumped back to more than 1,000 new recorded deaths on Tuesday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ride free, take risks, that is our motto, right?
GALLAGHER: And now it appears we're learning just how deadly those risks were at last month's Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. Health officials confirming a 60-year-old Minnesota man is the first known COVID-19 death traced back to the 10-day event attended by more than 400,000 people, where pandemic protocols were not enforced or embraced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're being human once again. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) that COVID (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
GALLAGHER: And with 17 states reporting an uptick in new cases, the national surge has moved from the South to the Midwest, as states in America's middle, like Iowa, where masks are not mandated, are seeing massive spikes in positivity rates.
BRUCE TEAGUE (D), MAYOR OF IOWA CITY, IOWA: We have a 30 percent positivity rate just within a 24-hour period. And so we have some major concerns, and we must address them.
GALLAGHER: Even as those states suffer through a surge, Iowa Senator Joni Ernst is floating a debunked conspiracy theory that COVID death totals are inflated, and she appeared to suggest, without proof, that doctors are falsifying death records for financial gain.
SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): I have heard it from health care providers that they do get reimbursed higher amounts if it's a COVID-related illness or death.
GALLAGHER: Around 185,000 people have died in the U.S. from COVID-19, more than six million cases and millions more feeling the economic pain.
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): We're in the middle of an epidemic with homelessness.
GALLAGHER: In an extraordinary move, the Trump administration invoking the CDC's powers to temporarily halt most evictions for millions of Americans struggling to pay their rent due to hardship brought on by COVID, saying people evicted from their homes can spread the virus as they seek new shelter or even become homeless.
The nation's top disease expert warning today the U.S. needs to act quickly before flu season begins to get the coronavirus pandemic under control, in order to avoid a double dose of trouble.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: What I would really like to see is kind of a full-court press, so that, when you get these cases in the fall, they won't surge up, they will be controllable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER: And the most pressing right now is the upcoming Labor Day weekend, because the United States, Wolf, saw a surge in COVID-19 cases after other holiday weekends this summer, specifically college students.
There is worry. About more than 25,000 cases have been connected to colleges and universities in 37 states.
BLITZER: That is so, so disturbing.
All right, Dianne, thank you, Dianne Gallagher reporting.
Let's go to CNN's Kaitlan Collins over at the White House.
Kaitlan, President Trump and Joe Biden, they are trading barbs over Kenosha, the coronavirus, and a whole lot more.
What's the latest?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf.
And they also appear to be trading schedules, because just yesterday you saw President Trump in Kenosha, Wisconsin. And now we have learned that Joe Biden is going there tomorrow, except they have very different agendas while they are on the ground.
Joe Biden is now expected to meet with Jacob Blake's father and other members of his family, we're told, while they're there, while also having what they are calling a community meeting, which is a lot different than what the president's schedule looked like, as he met with law enforcement and did not even mention Jacob Blake by name and only talked about him when reporters asked the president about him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As you know, Joe Biden, he doesn't have a clue.
[18:05:01]
K. COLLINS (voice-over): A different reception for President Trump in North Carolina tonight, after his visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin, defied local leaders and focused on law enforcement, instead of the black man recently shot by police.
TRUMP: Well, I feel terribly for anybody that goes through that.
K. COLLINS: While touring riot damage in Kenosha, Trump's advance team wanted to show him with the owner of a burned-down camera shop, but the owner wanted nothing to do with the presidential photo-op
TOM GRAM, OWNER, RODE'S CAMERA SHOP: I think everything he does turns into a circus, and it's -- I just didn't want to be involved in it.
K. COLLINS: So the White House invited the store's former owner, who still owns the building, to meet with the president instead.
TRUMP: John Rode III, owner of the Rode's Camera Shop.
K. COLLINS: Former Vice President Joe Biden will visit Kenosha tomorrow, after saying the officers involved in Jacob Blake's shooting should be charged.
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do think, at a minimum, they need to be charged, the officers. Let the judicial system work. Let's make sure justice is done.
K. COLLINS: In a speech earlier today, Biden sought to turn the conversation back to coronavirus and blamed Trump for the struggle that schools have faced in reopening.
BIDEN: Mr. President, where are you? Where are you? Why aren't you working on this? We need emergency support funding for our schools, and we need it now.
K. COLLINS: A new CNN poll shows Biden maintained an advantage over Trump following the political conventions, with 51 percent backing Biden and 43 percent backing Trump.
The results of the poll could complicate Trump's effort to make the race about law and order. It found that when considering their own communities, a majority of Americans worry about the pandemic, the economy, and racism more than they do the risk of crime.
Trump now says he and Biden should take drug tests before their debates.
TRUMP: I say we should both -- I should take a drug test. So should he.
K. COLLINS: This week, Trump has kept his health in the headlines after a new book revealed that Vice President Mike Pence was put on standby during the president up trip to Walter Reed military hospital last November, something Pence claims he can't recall.
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't -- I don't recall being told to be on standby.
K. COLLINS: Trump's former White House doctor turned Republican congressional candidate came out in defense of his health and said he was told weeks in advance about Trump's visit, something Ronny Jackson did not say at the time.
RONNY JACKSON (R), TEXAS CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: This trip was neither urgent nor emergent, nor did it have anything to do with his cerebrovascular or his cardiovascular health.
K. COLLINS: Meanwhile, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is facing heat from the GOP after she visited a San Francisco hair salon for an appointment that defied local ordinances.
Pelosi was seen without her mask, but her office says she'd complied with rules as presented by the salon.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): When they said we're able to accommodate people one person at a time, and that we can set up that time, I trusted that. As it turns out, it was a setup. So I take responsibility for falling for a setup.
K. COLLINS: Trump, who recently accepted the Republican nomination in front of a massive and mostly maskless audience, accused Pelosi of being a hypocrite. (END VIDEOTAPE)
K. COLLINS: And, Wolf, while the president was in North Carolina briefly earlier today, he seemed to be encouraging people to vote twice, basically saying, if they vote absentee, they should also try and go and vote in-person to test the system and make sure it's working.
And, simply put, that would be encouraging voter fraud, because, of course, you are not supposed to try to vote twice if you have already sent in your absentee ballot, though you could change your vote if you wanted, depending on the rules of the state that you lived in.
But the president encouraging people to try so twice is certainly not in line with his message about making sure people are voting properly.
BLITZER: Yes, good point, indeed. All right, Kaitlan, thank you very much.
A panel of experts convened by the National Institutes of Health says convalescent plasma should not be considered the standard of care for coronavirus patients, despite claims from President Trump that the therapy, in the president's word, was a breakthrough.
Let's continue the discussion with the director of National Institutes of Health Dr. Francis Collins.
Dr. Collins, thank you so much for joining us.
And I know you say you're surprised by the uproar around treatment guidelines for convalescent plasma. But, given the incredibly inconsistent messages we're getting from the federal government, including accusations of political influence, tell us why you're surprised.
DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: Well, I think I was surprised yesterday that a simple statement from a group of clinical experts intended to help to guide physicians about how best to care for patients with COVID-19 suddenly became a news story.
What those guidelines basically said was exactly what the FDA had said when they issued that emergency use authorization for convalescent plasma, namely, that there is some evidence that this might be beneficial, but it is not conclusive, and it is probably safe.
And, therefore, it is the sort of thing that FDA did not want to block people's access. Hence, they issued this EUA.
[18:10:03]
That's what the treatment guidelines said. But, suddenly, it became a story. We actually had that statement cleared by the FDA. And they approved the wording of it.
And, suddenly, it became news. BLITZER: But do you agree with the emergency use authorization of
convalescent plasma as a treatment for coronavirus patients, or do you disagree with that?
F. COLLINS: It's FDA's responsibility and authority to make that decision. They looked at the evidence.
They concluded that, while it was not conclusive, it was probably not harmful, and there was some evidence to suggest it might be beneficial. Keep in mind, Wolf, the threshold for issuing an EUA is pretty low.
It's not as if you have approved this as something FDA says is definitely safe and effective. It might be. And, hence, they granted that. That's their responsibility. That's what they did.
And I completely support their ability to make those decisions.
BLITZER: But -- so, you disagree -- correct me if I'm wrong -- with the president when he says this was a breakthrough?
F. COLLINS: I think this was a modest statement, an advance in terms of the things that we're all waiting for desperately.
And it kind of breaks my heart that something like this becomes all of a sudden something that divides us. Here we are -- you just reported 185,000 people have lost their lives to COVID-19. We should be coming together, and not trying to identify circumstances like this, where we can try to identify that there's some controversy. There really shouldn't be.
BLITZER: If you were someone you love were hospitalized with coronavirus -- and, sadly, a lot of us know people who are hospitalized with coronavirus -- would you want convalescent plasma, based on what you know right now?
F. COLLINS: I don't know. I think that would be up to the person and their physician.
I would say that if they were in a place where they could enroll in a randomized clinical trial to really find out in a rigorous way what the benefits are and to which subgroup of patients the benefits apply, I would encourage them to take part in that.
We need to get a definitive answer. That can only really be done by the kind of randomized trials that are currently under way in several places, particularly Texas and in Miami. And we hope to have a really solid answer in another month or so about exactly what the application of convalescent plasma should be.
BLITZER: Well, that's important.
According to some newly revealed documents, Dr. Collins, the CDC has told states to prepare to distribute coronavirus vaccines as soon as October. Do you think that's a realistic timeline?
F. COLLINS: I think that's unlikely.
But I defend the CDC in their effort to try to be sure people are prepared. This is like the Boy Scout motto, be prepared. Even if it's very low likelihood, if everything happened to come together really beautifully, and we had an answer by then, and we knew we had a vaccine that was safe and effective, wouldn't you want people to be ready to figure out how to do the distribution?
That's all that CDC is saying. Keep in mind that the likelihood of that is pretty low. We now have three vaccine trials under way in the U.S., each of them seeking to enroll 30,000 participants.
A couple of those, the Pfizer trial and the Moderna trial, already are up at about 18,000 and counting. But you still have to see what happens. You won't know if the vaccine works until lots of people have been out there in the community to see whether it protected them against disease.
So, most of us are guessing the real answers to this will come along perhaps in December. But if everything went extremely well, and if you had a vaccine that was extremely effective, we might find out earlier, and we'd want to be prepared for that.
BLITZER: But don't you agree, though, Dr. Collins, that any vaccine needs to make it all the way through what's called that phase three trial in order to be entirely safe, to reassure people that who are going to get that shot or shots, depending on the case, that they will be -- they won't have any side effects, any serious side effects, that it will prevent them from getting coronavirus, that it's effective and safe?
Because you need the American public to trust you and to believe in what you're doing.
F. COLLINS: I totally am with you on that. I'm glad you are bringing this up, Wolf.
We are not going to cut any corners on safety or efficacy. But it would also be unethical if early on in a trial where maybe not all 30,000 people had yet had the second dose, you could tell with the first 20,000 that the vaccine was highly effective.
Would you want to keep people in the dark about that? You know what's a good thing, is that this all gets decided by a group called the Data and Safety Monitoring Board. They get to look at the data. They know who got the vaccine, who got the placebo. They're the ones who figure out whether it's time to say, this is working.
That's not a political decision. Not -- even the FDA doesn't see that, until that DSMB has looked at all the data and raised their hand to say, OK, we're done. So everybody should be reassured about that. There's no corners got to be cut here.
[18:15:02]
BLITZER: Well, we're grateful to you, Dr. Collins, for what you and all your colleagues at NIH are doing. You're doing really important work. You're saving lives. And I want to thank you on behalf of all of our viewers.
Thanks so much for joining us.
F. COLLINS: Nice to be with you, Wolf. Call me back anytime.
BLITZER: We certainly will.
And just ahead, I will speak with Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings about the investigation in Kenosha that's ongoing, the president's rhetoric on race and policing.
There, you see her. We will discuss.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Breaking news we're following. Joe Biden is calling on the officers involved in the shooting of Jacob Blake to be charged, but says he wants to use his visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin, tomorrow to promote healing.
Let's bring in Florida Congresswoman Val Demings. She's a Democrat.
[18:20:01]
Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us.
A lot to discuss, but I want to get your reaction to my interview in the last hour with the attorney general, Bill Barr. It's -- and we will in a moment, but, before we do that, as you know, Joe Biden is set to travel to Kenosha tomorrow, as that community clearly deals with the fallout of the shooting of Jacob Blake by police.
Biden says he thinks the officers involved should be charged.
As the former chief of the Orlando Police Department -- we're talking about you -- do you agree?
REP. VAL DEMINGS (D-FL): Well, Wolf, thank you so much for having me on your show.
And I want to begin with some of the things that the attorney general said in your last interview with him.
He said -- you asked him a question about what would he say to the Blake family, and he said that he would talk about, in excessive force cases, there's a process, that there is an investigation that takes place, and that due process is a part of that investigation.
What he should have added, though, is that his main job is to make sure that justice is served. And so -- and that's for the Blake family and also the police officer that is involved.
And, look, if the evidence in the case indicates that the officer should be charged, then that's the direction that should be taken.
Apparently, the vice president has some information that I have not have -- had access to, because I know that there is an investigation going on. But justice is really what we want to see.
BLITZER: Jacob Blake's father has argued, as you know, that there are two different justice systems here in the United States. He says your treatment under the law depends on the color of your skin.
And I asked the attorney general about this. So, listen to part of my interview, his reaction, his statement. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Do you think black people are treated differently by law enforcement than white people?
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think there are some situations where statistics would suggest that they are treated differently, but I don't think that that's necessary racism.
BLITZER: What is it?
BARR: Like, didn't Jesse Jackson say that, when he looks behind him and he sees a group of young black males walking behind him, he's more scared than when he sees a group of white youths walking behind him.
Does that make him a racist? Does that make him a racist?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So, what's your reaction when you hear that, Congresswoman?
DEMINGS: We're talking about...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: I think that we're having some technical problems.
Can you hear me, Congresswoman?
DEMINGS: I can hear you, yes. Can you hear me?
BLITZER: All right, I think we lost your shot, but go ahead and give us your reaction to what we heard from the attorney general.
DEMINGS: You know, we're talking about America's top cop, and, yet again, he just does not seem to be able to find his way.
We know that, unfortunately, racism in America is the ghost in the room. We know that. And it has found its way into all systems, whether that's in health care, education, housing, and lending institutions. And, certainly, police departments are no exception.
We can look at the numbers in our criminal justice system, those who are in prison, those who are arrested. And we see that there is imbalance there.
And I expect the top cop, the attorney general, to, number one, care about that, and be willing to lead the effort to reform our criminal justice system.
I worked in it a lot of years. And while we do know that the overwhelming men and women in law enforcement are good, decent people, throughout the criminal justice system, there is need to -- for reform.
And I'm looking forward to being a part of that process.
BLITZER: Jacob Blake's a family says that, while his health is progressing, national reform is not.
What would you recommend to the people in Kenosha and all communities across the country, for that matter, in confronting systemic racism? What should they do to find some real, lasting change?
DEMINGS: Wolf, we have got to have real conversations that many people find pretty tough, but we got to have them, if we are going to have real, lasting change.
One of the things I always say -- and I truly believe it -- is that when we talk about the police and the community, we talk about them as two separate entities, but they are not.
The police are the community, and the community is the police. And the only way that we're going to solve this problem is for the police and the community to work together to deal with some of the toughest problems that we are facing in our communities.
What I do know, regardless of the color of your skin or the economic base in each community, because I have patrolled them, every person, black, brown, and otherwise, wants to live in safe communities.
So we really need unity around this issue. And, unfortunately, the president of the United States and the attorney general just don't seem to have the ability to lead on this issue and unify our nation around it.
[18:25:00]
BLITZER: Sorry we lost your shot, but we heard every word you said.
Congresswoman Val Demings, thanks so much for joining us.
DEMINGS: Thank you.
BLITZER: Just ahead, we're going to have more analysis of my exclusive interview with the attorney general of the United States, William Barr.
The former U.S. attorney Preet Bharara, he's standing by. We will discuss.
And, later, there are new developments in the poisoning of a high- profile Russian dissident who's now fighting for survival.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
BLITZER: Last hour here in The Situation Room, I had an exclusive interview with the attorney general of the United States, William Barr. We have a lot to discuss about the investigation in Kenosha, the issue of race in America, policing, election security and more.
Watch this clip.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Is it appropriate though for the sitting president to be accusing his predecessor, President Obama, and former Vice President Biden of committing treason?
WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL : Well, treason is a legal term. I think he is using it colloquially. To commit treason, you actually have to have a state of war with a foreign enemy. But I think he feels they were involved in an injustice. And if he feels that, he can say it.
BLITZER: Do you think black people are treated differently by law enforcement than white people?
BARR: I think there are some situations where statistics would suggest that they are treated differently but I don't think that is necessarily racism.
To me, the word systemic means that it is built into the institution. And I don't think that's true. I think our institutions have been reformed in the past six years. And if anything has been built in, it is a bias to non-discrimination.
I do think there appears to be a phenomenon in the country where African-Americans feel that they're treated when they're stopped by police frequently as suspects before they're treated as citizens. I don't think that that necessarily reflects deep-seeded racism in police departments or in most police officers.
Well, I'm not going to talk about the Blake case.
BLITZER: Why not?
BARR: Because I think it is different than the Floyd case.
BLITZER: What's different?
BARR: Well, Floyd was already subdued, incapacitated, in handcuffs, and was not armed. In the Jacob case, he was in the midst of committing a felony and he was armed. It is very easy to maintain peace in these cities. In any city where the mayor backs the police, the police chief is doing his job, and the governor is willing to provide backup support, there will be peace on the streets and there has been peace on the streets.
BLITZER: So far, we haven't seen widespread fraud.
BARR: So far, we haven't tried it. And the point is --
BLITZER: But a lot of us -- there are several states that only have mail-in voting, including a Republican --
BARR: Wolf, this is playing with fire. This is playing with fire. We're a very closely divided country here. And if people have to have confidence in the results of the election and legitimacy of the government and people trying to change the rules to this methodology, which, as a matter of logic, is very open to fraud and coercion, is reckless and dangerous and people are playing with fire.
BLITZER: I will point out there are five states that only have mail-in voting, including Utah and Colorado and Washington State, Oregon, Hawaii. And they have reported over the years they have virtually no problems. But who is trying to change the rules right now?
BARR: I would say people who want to go to mass mail-in ballots.
BLITZER: But you understand why. There is a coronavirus pandemic.
BARR: Right.
BLITZER: And a lot of people, potentially, if they waited in long lines when they go to the polls, they could get sick, especially older people or people with underlying conditions. As a result, a lot of people want to change the rules so they don't have to go wait in long lines. They don't have to touch all this equipment.
BARR: And the appropriate way to deal with that is, number one, arrangements at the polls that protect people, which can be done, and number two, people who have pre-existing conditions and are particularly vulnerable can get an absentee ballot.
I have no problem with people -- I have voted by absentee ballot, not by mail. I actually went to the office to cast my vote, but absentee ballots are fine.
BLITZER: During your tenure as attorney general of the United States, how many indictments have you brought against people committing voter fraud?
BARR: I couldn't tell you off the top of my head, but several.
BLITZER: Like a handful?
BARR: I can't -- I don't know.
BLITZER: Several doesn't sound like too many. BARR: I don't know. I don't know how many we have.
BLITZER: Do you accept that Russia is once again interfering in the U.S. presidential election?
BARR: I accept that there is some preliminary activity that suggests that they might try again.
BLITZER: Of those three countries, the intelligence community has pointed to Russia, China and Iran, which is the most assertive, the most aggressive in this area?
BARR: I believe it's China.
BLITZER: Which one?
BARR: China.
BLITZER: China more than Russia right now?
BARR: Yes.
BLITZER: Why do you say that?
BARR: Because I've seen the intelligence. That is what I've concluded.
BLITZER: But do you agree with what the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded that Russia did directly interfere in the 2016 presidential election with the goal of helping Donald Trump?
BARR: Based on the intelligence I've seen, I don't dispute an assessment that they attempted to interfere.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: All right. Let's discuss with our Senior Legal Analyst, Preet Bharara, former U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of New York. So, Preet, thanks for joining us.
What stands out to you from what you heard?
[18:35:00]
Our interview went on and on. Those are just little excerpts. What jumped out at you?
PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: A lot of things. It is good to be here, Wolf. Thanks for having me. That was a pretty good montage. There are so many things to respond to.
I'll start with the first thing right out of the box, I think, in that montage and also your interview. You asked the sitting attorney general whether it was appropriate for the president of the United States to accuse the former president and vice president of treason.
I'm pleased that the sitting attorney general does not believe that they are guilty of treason and proceeded to give a lawyerly answer to why, it's not treason because we are not in an armed conflict with another country.
And yet time and time again, as other people have said, this attorney general does not call out the president. And maybe it is a difficult thing to do if you serve the pleasure of the president and you are a sitting cabinet official.
I would like to hear the attorney general, in private, says to the president of the United States, it is irresponsible and wrong, as implied by your question, to throw out terms like treason, which is based on an actual statute, is represented in the Constitution, and the consequence of a guilty verdict on treason is potentially the death penalty. It is not responsible language and the attorney general should know it better.
And it is also, by the way, true, notwithstanding what the attorney general says, to anyone who applies logic, which is something of a favorite word of the attorney general, that the president really does think that Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Jim Comey, and a host of other people should be in prison.
And he uses terms that are not so easily explained away, not just treason but prison, lock her up. That is not a metaphor. That's an informal usage of language. It is an irresponsible attack by a sitting president, the most powerful person in the country, against his political enemies. And I wish the attorney general was stronger about that.
BLITZER: And when I asked him what the president keeps saying, he said it twice over the past few weeks, including this week, he said, Bill Barr can go down as the greatest attorney general in the history of our country or he can go down as just another guy. It depends on what is going to happen. And that is the president speaking about the attorney general.
And I asked, is it appropriate for an attorney general to be pressuring -- a president for that matter -- to be pressuring an attorney general to go ahead and file charges?
BHARARA: Yes. And you know what his answer was. His answer was, I don't feel pressure. That is not quite the question you were asking. And then when you pressed him again, which is what he did, he, again, repeated some version of I don't feel pressure and then it was an odd moment where he, I think, came back and asked you, turning the tables, what do you think is wrong with that?
I think anybody who understands anything about the Justice Department and the separation of politics from prosecution and some arms' length independence, some at least, between the attorney general and a president, that the most powerful person in the country who is at the top of the federal government, the executive branch, saying repeatedly over and over again things like, he'll go down as the greatest attorney general in history if you do a particular thing.
What is the thing he wants to be done, Related to the Durham probe of the origins of the Russia investigation? He wants payback against people who he perceives were going after him in an inappropriate way.
The president of the United States should stay out of those matters and let the Justice Department do its work and the attorney general knows that.
BLITZER: And he shouldn't be pressuring the U.S. attorney who is investigating all of this, Durham, by suggesting, I hope they're not going to be politically correct. And that is a serious source of pressure on the U.S. attorney who is investigating all of this, especially at this sensitive moment.
Preet, thank you very much for joining us.
BHARARA: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Just ahead, we're going to have the latest on the highly disturbing poisoning of a Russian dissident now fighting for his life in a German hospital.
Also, new details emerging on a highly unusual eviction moratorium ordered by the CDC.
Stay with us. You are in The Situation Room.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
BLITZER: Germany now says Russian Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned with a chemical nerve agent. Let's go to our Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen. He's outside the Berlin hospital where Navalny is in intensive care right now.
Fred, does this point to who might have tried to kill him?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly does seem as though that is the case, Wolf. The Germans are saying it was the toxicology department of the German military that found out beyond any sort of doubt, unequivocally, the Germans say, that it was Novichok, a chemical nerve agent, that poisoned Alexei Navalny.
Now, this is the same substance that also poisoned Sergei Skripal, the former Russian spy, in Salisbury, in England, in 2018. And, of course, back then, Wolf, Russia was widely held responsible for that. There was a big international uproar about it. Several countries threw out Russian diplomats.
What Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, did today is she didn't directly point the finger of blame at Russia. However, she did say that Russia has a lot to answer for. She said that Russia -- there are a lot of questions that Russia can only answer and needs to answer at this point in time. And the Germans are obviously saying they are monitoring that very closely and that there could be some very grave consequences for Russia as well. And, Wolf, because we are standing in front of the hospital where Alexei Navalny is being treated, we also got an update on how he is actually doing. The German doctors here are saying that the nerve agent is a little less bad right now inside him. However, he is still very much on a ventilator. They say that this is going to be a very, very long, drawn out process, a long illness. At this point in time, it is not clear whether he's going to be able to make a full recovery at all, Wolf.
BLITZER: What is Moscow saying about this? What is their response?
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PLEITGEN: Well, it is kind of the same that we heard in a lot of these cases in the past as well. You had some of the spokespeople for the foreign ministry coming out saying this is anti-Russian propaganda, you know, some of the things that we have heard from the Russians in the past before. The Russians also saying or speaking by what they were saying before that when Alexei Navalny was in the hospital in Russia there were no traces of chemical agents inside his blood or inside his system at that point in time.
The Russians so far still have not launched any sort of investigation into what exactly happened to Alexei Navalny. However, they do say that they willing to share data with the Germans, but at the same time seemed to be trying to discredit what the Germans are doing here at the same time, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. We'll stay on top of it together with you.
Fred Pleitgen, reporting from Berlin, thank you.
Just ahead, we're getting some new details about an extraordinary new effort to prevent evictions related to the economic crisis created by the coronavirus pandemic.
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BLITZER: We're following an extraordinary move by one of the nation's top health agencies to prevent Americans from being evicted from their homes because of the economic crisis.
Let's go to Brian. He's working the story for us.
So, Brian, what are you learning?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, advocates and officials say some 30 to 40 million Americans could have been in danger of being evicted without this bold new order from the CDC. But some advocates are now worried that this might just be a half measure without actual money to help struggling renters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TODD (voice-over): Kianah Ashley put it best this summer after he lost work and she and her young son faced eviction from their rental home in Queens, New York, due to the pandemic.
KIANAH ASHLEY, FACED EVICTION THIS SUMMER: That's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy because not knowing where you're going to rest your head at for the next day, that's not good.
TODD: Tonight, advocacy groups say some 30 million to 40 million Americans like Kianah Ashley who are at risk of eviction could be getting desperately needed help. The CDC has just issued an extraordinary order for a federal health agency, ordering temporary halt to evictions until the end of this year.
DIANE YENTEL, NATIONAL LOW INCOME HOUSING COALITION: The very least the federal government should do is ensure we're not going to lose our homes in the middle of it, and the action by the CDC could do just that and provide immediate relief for tens of millions of anxious and hurting families.
TODD: Marguerite Camacho is living on that edge. The single mother of two lost her job as a massage therapist in California's Bay Area and lost a second job with a tech company to the pandemic. Her extra unemployment payments from the federal government stimulus expired at the end of July. State unemployment money, a one-time charity payment, and a part-time job aren't giving her a lot of confidence that she can stay in her home.
MARGUERITE CAMACHO, LOST TWO JOBS DURING PANDEMIC: It's very worrisome. Every night, you lay in bed and you're thinking, I have children to feed, I'm home schooling, I have to provide shelter, food, how am I going to do that?
TODD: In order to get the new CDC protection, renters have to meet four conditions. Single renters have to prove they have yearly income of $99,000 or less. For couples, it's $198,000. You have to prove you've made efforts to get government assistance for rent. You have to declare that the coronavirus pandemic is the reason you can't pay rent and you have to declare that you'd become homeless if you are evicted. But there is another side to the eviction crisis, the struggle among landlords to collect rent and avoid foreclosure on their rental properties.
Paul Salehi who owns rental properties in Osceola County, Florida, says he doesn't know how much longer he can give renters a break.
PAUL SALEHI, OWNS RENTAL PROPERTIES IN OSCEOLA COUNTY, FLORIDA: Obviously, I don't want to tell anyone they have to get out immediately this and that, but I won't be able to pay the mortgage for them forever.
TODD: That's why housing advocates say the CDC's new eviction protection is only a half measure, because it doesn't relieve them of owing back rent.
YENTEL: At that point, they create a financial cliff for renters to fall off of when back rent is due and they're no more able to pay it then than they were now or they weren't at the beginning of the pandemic.
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TODD: Now, giving renters money to fend off eviction when this protection order ends in January requires an act of Congress. So far, the house has passed about $100 billion to assist renters, but that has not gotten through the Senate yet -- Wolf.
BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, Brian, the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, it's a health agency. Does it even have the legal authority to issue this order?
TODD: Wolf, some U.S. officials and CDC officials argue that it does. The CDC's rationale here is that this is a health threat. If people are evicted from homes, many of them become homeless, they go out into the population more, they go into the streets more, they pose more of a risk of infecting others. It's much safer, according to the CDC, to keep people isolated in their home separated from others.
So, the CDC does argue that this is a health issue. This could, however, be challenged in some of the courts.
BLITZER: Very interesting, indeed.
All right. Brian Todd reporting for us, thank you.
Much more news right after this.
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BLITZER: Finally, tonight, let's take a moment to remember some of the wonderful people we've lost during the coronavirus pandemic.
Katrina Ferguson of Virginia was 61 years old. She was a daycare worker with a great smile who loved taking care of children. Her daughter tells us Katrina was always the life of the party.
Charles Moore of New York was 72. He was a passionate man who loved music and the New York Yankees. Charles also loved being around children and took a part-time job at a local elementary school after he retired.
May they rest in peace and may their memories being a blessing.
And to our viewers thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WolfBlitzer. You can always tweet the show @CNNsitroom.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
