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Cuomo Prime Time
Joe Biden Visits Kenosha, Wisconsin After Shooting Of Jacob Blake; Trump Falsely Claims He "Ended" Kenosha "Problem"; Black Man Dies By Suffocation After Police Cover His Head And Pin Him To Ground. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 03, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-HOST, NEW DAY: Reach out to the entire community. Thanks so much for being with us.
ALAN ROSEN, CONSTABLE, HARRIS COUNTY PRECINCT 1: Thank you.
BERMAN: All right, the news continues, so time for me to hand it over to Chris Cuomo for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: J.B., thank you very much.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
61 days, my brothers and sisters, and then we have an election that is just as much of a reckoning. Two of the most polar opposite visions that we have ever seen, of this country, laid out exactly two months from Election Day.
Biden went to Kenosha today, two days after President Trump's visit.
But it was as if Trump were addressing the people there, not today, but in the early 1960s. This harsh sense of law and order, which seems to mean bring down the power of his authority, not that he has that much, when it comes to state policing, but he's got to get these Blacks and their kooky White allies in order. There is no problem beyond their actions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't believe that. No. I don't believe that. I think the police do an incredible job. And I think you do have some bad apples.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: That question wasn't even for him. He jumped it because he wants to control the narrative. "There's no big problem, couple bad apples."
I think it's the orchard. Not just a few apples. It's not about all the police. It's not about people having black hearts, no soul. It's not what it is. It's a cheap excuse. It's about the system.
It's about the money we put in, and the results we get out, and the way we calibrate the two. It's about how we train, how we explain, and how we coordinate. It's big. And it's not just policing. It's lending. It's educating. It's hiring. It's paying. And it's loving.
And he knows it, and he won't say it, because he doesn't think it sells. He literally doesn't think that this country treats some people differently, than others, especially on the basis of color and perceived class. And he is wrong.
That's why Joe Biden went there. Can he sell a different message? He certainly was talking as if he lives in a different world from Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The underlying racism that is institutionalized in the United States still exists, has existed for 400 years. And - and so what's happened is that we end up in a circumstance like they had here in Kenosha and have here in Kenosha.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, what do you have here? You got two older White guys, true. But after that, these two men bear no resemblance in message or mentality.
Trump's pitch is clear, single word, fear.
First it was Muslims. Remember? "Islam hates us. Got to ban them. Muslim ban is what I'd call it." Changed it because the courts forced him to because this is America.
Then it was Mexicans. The Brown Menace, as I say, he constructed. "Coming for your women and your jobs, they're all MS-13, you know, bringing drugs, killers!"
Now, his puppets on state news put pictures to his latest pretensions. "Blacks are out of order. We need strength. Get things back under control."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe systemic racism is a problem in this country?
TRUMP: Well, you know, you just keep getting back to the opposite subject. We should talk about the kind of violence that we've seen in Portland, and here, and other places. It's tremendous violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, if you were to ask him, why were they on the streets? What led to the violence? Was it random? Did they put out a message? Was it a TikTok dance gone rogue?
There is a reason they're hitting the streets, Mr. President, right? Isn't it your job to at least acknowledge it?
I think this message would be more familiar to us, in our collective history, if Trump had been giving it with a lot of big dogs around him and fire hoses.
"Fear the others. And if you get out of line, if you want more than we say you can have, you're going to get the hose, you're going to get the dogs on you." We'd been there before. That is not who we are anymore.
Now, can you sell the other side? Because fear sells. So Biden is saying, "Yes, I can. You can't scare people into defiance of reality."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Well, I think, Alderman, what's been unleashed with a lot of people is they understand that fear doesn't solve problems. Only hope does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: And I'll tell you what, they're coming after him.
Wake up, Joe. This is a fight, got to act like it. You got to get up. You got to have energy.
[21:05:00]
Now, I know that sounds ridiculous, given the context of where he was, but this is politics. And this fight is about people's passions.
He met with the Blake family, Biden. They didn't want to see Trump. And you know why. He spoke to Jacob Blake, himself, on the phone, who is paralyzed in the hospital, now out of the ICU.
Here's how Biden discussed it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: He talked about how nothing was going to defeat him, how whether he walked again or not, he was not going to give up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, there is compassion in that, but there is another side, also. And court - and the President is going to court it very aggressively, and I understand why. And that side is, "Why are you being so nice to Blake for? Is he really a victim in all this?"
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If we can help, we're going to help, but it is a question. It's under investigation. Lot of things happened with that, and other things, frankly, that we're looking at very, very closely. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, it's not exactly the same. I've heard a lot of you say "This is like McCain being a loser for getting captured." Not exactly. Not exactly. This is not just brazen disrespect for disadvantage. It's about justice. It's about what is fairness under law?
Blake did - we saw the video - Blake did apparently resist arrest. So, what's the argument? All right, so Blake is not blameless. OK, stipulate to that, accept it.
But what is Trump's argument? Whatever happens after that is OK? It's OK that he got shot?
"But for your resisting this wouldn't have happened, so it's on you."
No, the police are the ones that we invest with our belief in their duty to represent our best interests. They are trained to de-escalate. They are trained to not deal with the force that comes their way. They are trained to be better than what they deal with.
The President thinks that the way he handled it led to a win in Kenosha. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Biden went there today. There was nobody there. There was nobody there.
(CROWD LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: He was a little late. I was going to say, "Hey listen, we ended that problem."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: It's not a rock concert, Mr. President.
Governor of Wisconsin called for the National Guard a day before Trump reached out to Wisconsin officials. Are all people being policed the same way now? Is that the win? Or is it about your popularity? Do you give a damn about the people in Kenosha? Or did you go there to help yourself?
Boy, the answer seems painfully obvious, doesn't it? You're not going to hear it over on State TV. You're not going to hear it from his puppets and the foppish frauds that tell you a different story that everything is going to hell in a hand basket but it doesn't matter that it's on his watch. Oh yes, it does.
So, what's his real answer? He's got to fix. You know what helps inequality? Less resources. "What?" Yes, tell Trump if it makes no sense. His new solution to the outcry over injustice is to cut off funding to cities that are led by Democrats.
Does he realize that Republicans live in those cities, too? And that a lot of cities that are in trouble in America are led by Republicans? Not as many as Democrats because the bigger a population center gets, the more they usually seem to elect Democrats.
But he swore an oath to protect everybody, didn't he? Not just White people who like him? Another stark contrast between Trump and Biden in Kenosha goes way beyond the issue there.
Now, Biden has a mask on. Did he have to? Let's argue no. But he did it to send a message to us. Trump never does it. Never! Trump told the crowd indoors they should take theirs off if they were more comfortable.
And then tonight, he mocked Biden for wearing what he, himself, told us was our patriotic duty to wear. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him?
(CROWD LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: And then he makes a speech, and he always has it - not always, but a lot of times, he has it hanging down.
(CROWD LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Because, you know what, it gives him a feeling of security.
(CROWD APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Congressman, give me your mask. I want to have it hanging from my - yes, I don't want to touch your damn mask.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Listen. Don't ever argue to me again that the President gets what we need to do in this pandemic.
He said we have to wear masks. They gave - they gave him mixed messaging in the beginning. But he knows it. He wore it. He says it. He says it's his - your patriotic duty. That is BS.
[21:10:00]
He said it because he had to, because he was getting his ass beaten, all over the country, for ignoring the one prophylaxis we have, social distance, wear the mask, wash your hands, be smart.
He doesn't think it's patriotic to wear a mask. He doesn't think anything is patriotic, except backing him. And if you don't, God have mercy on you, because he's coming. He's coming for you worse than any virus ever. Trust me!
But don't you tell me, "Don't be unfair. He wants people to wear masks. He said it." No, he doesn't. You just saw him mock it, and it's not a joke. He thinks anything that's not good for him is a joke. And I'm telling you, it's a mistake.
He is the leader of this country, and we are not out of the woods in this pandemic. We could get out of them. We don't have to be sick forever. But we have to do the right things.
And he is not telling us what we need to hear. And that's why his supporters think they're showing support for him by not showing support for one another, and letting each other get sick.
You don't think people have gotten sick at his rallies when they're not covered? He's not going to admit it. But he is a damn liar. And we know they are. And the responsibility matters and it is his.
So now, we're coming up on Labor Day. We know what that means. Big groups! We know what that could mean. Big surge! Let's discuss.
Dr. Zeke Emanuel, former Obama White House Health Policy Adviser, Author of "Which Country Has the World's Best Health Care?" This is an abstruse subject that he has broken down in very readable fashion. Bravo to Zeke. He also serves on Biden's Campaign Coronavirus Task Force.
So, thank you for joining us. Good luck with the book.
DR. ZEKE EMANUEL, AUTHOR, "WHICH COUNTRY HAS THE WORLD'S BEST HEALTH CARE?", ADVISER, BIDEN CAMPAIGN CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE HEALTH POLICY ADVISER UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA, VICE PROVOST OF GLOBAL INITIATIVES, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you.
CUOMO: Zeke, the President says, "Listen, nobody knew what the hell was going on with Coronavirus. They were giving me all mixed messages. Even the mask, "Mask is bad. Don't do it. You'll touch your face, you'll make yourself sick."
So, as soon as I got a handle on what was going on, I did all the right things. Nobody's handled it better than us. We got the best death rate in the world. We're handling it as well or better than anyone else."
True?
EMANUEL: False. You just have to look at places like Taiwan, New Zealand.
Both of those countries, Taiwan has 24 million people, fewer than 500 cases, seven deaths in the entire country. The economy is going. New Zealand, 5 million people, fewer than 500 cases, and also fewer than 10 deaths.
And even places that have done poorly, like Italy, they were in terrible shape in March. They peaked around March 26th or 27th, towards the end of March. And then by May, they were - at the end of May, they were very low, and they actually were that way for most of the summer, until the August vacation, when people ignored all the public health measures. So, many other countries have done much better than us. We did hit a
peak of 66,000 cases per day. We're now down at 40,000, about 33 percent less. But we have a long way to go.
We have to get below 10,000, below 5,000 new cases a day. So, we have to be vigilant in precisely the way the President hasn't urged us to be vigilant.
CUOMO: You assess the healthcare system of the U.S. and 10 other countries. Where do we fall?
EMANUEL: We're not in the top 10. I would say we're not the worst, but we're not in the top 10. And many other countries--
CUOMO: In terms of response, because all clinicians, like you, keep arguing that they don't even like me mentioning our death rate because they say, "You are punishing our healthcare system for being so good at keeping people alive," and that that's actually a skewed metric.
So, give me the reason why we didn't do well.
EMANUEL: We didn't do well for a whole series of reasons. First of all, as you know, we didn't lock down the country and put into effect the public health measures.
And while we were putting into effect those public health measures, building up our testing capacity, building up our tracing capacity, and our ability to isolate people, so that if we had small outbreaks, we could suppress then.
We still don't have good testing. We've gotten to a maximum of 800,000 tests per day, and it's actually been dropping in the last couple of weeks, not increasing.
[21:15:00]
And most experts, like myself, think we need to be at 5 million at least a day. We don't have the infrastructure in place for that. The President has not been able to solve that problem. He assigned it to Jared and it's not been solved. And that's just one sample of the many factors.
PPE is not distributed in the right places. The drug, Remdesivir, hasn't gone to the right hospitals. It's gone to some hospitals with the low number of cases, not hospitals with the high number of cases.
And the outbreak has moved. It was in New York. Then it's the South, the West. Now it's in the Midwest, Missouri and Iowa are the big focal points. So, we haven't--
CUOMO: My fear is that--
EMANUEL: --won things.
CUOMO: My fear is that now that it moves into less-populated areas, people won't be wowed by the numbers. But it doesn't mean it's not impacting communities very hard in the heartland. And that's why we got to keep covering it, even if the numbers aren't overwhelming.
"Vaccine sooner equals better for us in this pandemic. So, if they can do it, Trump has pulled off a major, big move right before the election," fair analysis?
EMANUEL: Oh, yes. He's counting on it.
And what's interesting is, other countries listen to their scientists, and have empowered their scientists. The countries that have tended to do well have given the scientists the authority to actually drive things and dictate how the procedures ought to go.
And places that haven't done well, like the United States, like Brazil, like Mexico, have tended to ignore science.
And we've seen over and over, with Hydroxychloroquine, with the convalescent plasma, where we've approved them with Emergency Use Authorizations only to have to pull them back because it was political pressure that led to their approval.
CUOMO: But if we get the--
EMANUEL: We just saw with convalescent plasma, that the FDA really didn't want to approve it. Trump then had a tweet storm, over last weekend, and they came out, and said, "OK, we're going to give it Emergency Use Authorization."
And they actually completely made up the data. Even the authors of the study said that they misquoted them. You can see what political pressure does to an agency like the FDA. And I am very afraid.
CUOMO: If we get the vaccine sooner than just about everybody else, doesn't that show that we're ahead, in terms of dealing with the pandemic?
EMANUEL: No. It doesn't show that we're ahead at all. What's interesting is that we're doing a lot of these vaccine studies in the United States, and you have to do those studies where there is a big outbreak.
Most countries, like Germany or Norway, you can't do the study because there aren't enough cases.
In the United States, there are so many cases you can do the vaccine trial, and that shows you how bad we're actually doing in this country that we have enough cases to actually do the vaccine study.
CUOMO: Now, Zeke has known me a long time. I don't have the acumen to give you all the answers on what you should think about everything. That's why I bring on people like Dr. Zeke Emanuel. I do believe in homework though. I do believe in the grind.
If you read, "Which Country Has the World's Best Health Care?" you will get a much better analysis than I have ever offered you, or I have seen offered about why the different fates were what they've been to this point in different countries and in different systems. It's worth the read, especially before the election.
Dr. Zeke Emanuel, God bless, good to see you, be well.
EMANUEL: Thanks, Chris, for having me on. Really appreciate it.
CUOMO: Always a pleasure.
EMANUEL: All right, we have one of the community leaders who met with former VP Biden today in Kenosha. What does he see as the problem there? Did it end the way the President proclaimed? What is the way forward? Next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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[21:20:00]
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: Joe Biden not only met with the family of Jacob Blake in Kenosha. He also talked with community leaders. They include Alderman Anthony Kennedy, who joins us now on PRIME TIME.
Thanks for joining us.
ANTHONY KENNEDY, ALDERMAN, KENOSHA, WISCONSIN: Thank you for having me, Chris. How are you today?
CUOMO: Better than I deserve. What do you think the net effect, in terms of difference was, in terms of what the visit of each man meant to the community?
KENNEDY: I think when the Vice President came today, he wanted to listen. They're going to take your strengths and they're going to use them against you. So, he was doing socially distancing, so our President couldn't make fun of the fact that there was no one there.
But the people in that room were the people that are going to be doing the work to rebuild this community on not just a building level, so you can come in and hand out the money, but we also know that our spirits have been hurt.
And the Vice President spoke to opening again (ph) spirits and the restoration of that - the American spirit.
The President, he lacks empathy. And I think that's really the difference. I was able to see someone, who saw our pain, and knew we didn't need a big event.
And it's kind of interesting. The last two times, I've been able to just sit and be at peace was when I met with Senator Baldwin yesterday, at the Jockey headquarters, and today, when I met at the church with Vice President Joe Biden.
No phones. No cell phones going off. None of these - no e-mails too, no fires to put out. Just - and that's restorative to the soul.
CUOMO: Let me ask you something.
Of course, the President is going to mock the mask. He thinks masks are weakness. Of course, he is going to make fun of the crowd size. He sees that as the only metric that matters. And again, he thinks the pandemic is a joke, so social distancing is therefore a joke to him.
But I'll tell you what he says isn't a joke.
"You crazy Blacks, and your kooky White allies, running around, burning up your communities, that's the problem. No such thing as systemic inequality, whatever that means. It's too many syllables.
[21:25:00]
Got a few bad apples in the cops, but you guys are the problem. You need some law and order, not some mushy Biden coming up there and talking to the guy who may be a criminal in the first place."
How do you deal with that message because it resonates loudly in the President's ranks, and your State, as you know, has a lot of Trump supporters?
KENNEDY: I would say that if you ask the Blake family, we have - we need more policing, I don't think they would agree with you. That shooting happened two blocks away from my house.
You talk about the State of Wisconsin, and a narrative that often goes down is that, in 2016, the domino of Kenosha fell, and thus Wisconsin fell.
Sometimes, it's hard not to be paranoid and think that we were targeted before the mail-in ballots come out, and all that stuff. I don't know who - I don't know why we are in this situation.
But if the triggering event is a death of a Black man by the police officers, who did the Kenosha police kill?
The last person killed in my town was killed by a White outsider, who murdered two men in the middle of the night, and was able to come into our - infiltrate our town and leave our town without any consequences whatsoever, until he was arrested in Illinois.
So, the narrative that our President, that we need more policing, or any other narratives that going in, it's hard to put a lot of investment in those, when you see what's happening here.
I've always said the protesters, the demonstrators, I'm never worried about them. Those are my friends, my neighbors, my constituents.
But, unfortunately, there are people who are going to take their passion, going to take their demand for social justice, and take their demand for equity in the system and use it for their own evil purposes.
CUOMO: Alderman Anthony Kennedy, you know I'm making the case because that's the case that's being made against you. But my heart and my head are with the community. And I wish you--
KENNEDY: Oh, I appreciate what you do. I appreciate what you do.
CUOMO: --I wish you some healing.
And we will not forget what happens with these cases. We will stay and we will watch. And thank God, Jacob Blake is alive. We'll let the facts fall where they do, and the analysis. But we still stay on the story.
KENNEDY: And that's all I've been saying, Sir, that's all I've been saying. The facts are going to fall where they're at.
CUOMO: Right.
KENNEDY: Meanwhile, we have to build some capacity, in our sys - in our communities, so that this happened, this event happened. How do we build capacity, how do we put trust back in the system? How do we - we're still going to have to live together.
And we're having some very difficult conversations about race in Kenosha. That's good. That's a very good thing. Because the Black community in Kenosha is not monolithic, right?
CUOMO: Right.
KENNEDY: And so, it is not one viewpoint of all Black people in Kenosha. We tried. We had a meeting and we couldn't come to consensus. I'm joking.
But what I think some people in Kenosha are starting to realize is even in our hometown, there are some hurt people, even in our hometown there are some people who feel disenfranchised.
Even in this, I think we got lulled into a Kenosha exceptionalism. But we're waking up, and people are having some discussions. And some of them are little ham-fisted in their response, but they're trying. They're really trying now. And then--
CUOMO: That's all you can ask for, Alderman. Your leadership is about bringing out the different voices in a community and make sure they're heard, and you lead on the basis of whatever consensus you can find.
I wish you well. And I'm here. I'm always a phone call away to say to talk about and report what matters. Be well.
KENNEDY: Thank you again for the opportunity to give us, to tell our story as opposed to letting someone else tell our story.
CUOMO: Understood.
KENNEDY: Thank you.
CUOMO: Understood. And the way we're going to stay on this story is not just by talking to people like Alderman Kennedy, in Kenosha, but staying on cases like this, as are evidence of more than just a bad apple.
It's about the orchard. It's about how we grow the trees. It's about how we tend to the fruit. It's about how we deal with pests among the trees. It's the whole system.
A Black man died by suffocation, after a police confrontation. This was months before George Floyd's killing in Minneapolis. They say they've been investigating it for a long time. It happened right here, in New York, in Rochester, on a snowy night, in March.
CNN has obtained video. And I'll tell you why I care about this case. It's not just about here. We're all brothers and sisters all across this country. There is a factor in this that we ignore all the time in policing matters. And we can't anymore.
The man's brother is here, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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[21:30:00]
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: Black man is dead after an encounter with police, another family now calling for justice. Another community looking for answers. The name? Daniel Prude, Rochester, New York. It happened back in March, not now. They've been investigating.
CNN obtained video from the family's attorneys of several officers' body cameras. This all began when Daniel's brother, Joe, called police, his brother called them, saying that his brother was having a mental health episode, and said he was known to take PCP.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE PRUDE, BROTHER OF DANIEL PRUDE: The drug he was on, it got him hallucinating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he on PCP?
J. PRUDE: Bingo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: In the video, you'll see officers cover Daniel's head with what's called a spit sock. He had been spitting toward them, on them, whatever, and saying he had Coronavirus. This is according to police reports.
[21:35:00]
Then, several officers pin him to the ground, before he stops breathing.
Keep in mind, the Medical Examiner's report cites complications, asphyxia as well as what is called excited delirium and acute PCP intoxication, as causes of death. Those two terms go together in terms of what drugs can do to somebody's body, creating stress.
So, let's rewind, and examine what led up to this, in more detail.
After Daniel's brother called the police for help, we see another set of officers checking out some broken store windows, which they think might have been done by Prude. Officers catch up with Prude around 3:16 in the morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground. Put your hands behind your back. Behind your back.
DANIEL PRUDE, BROTHER OF JOE PRUDE: Yes, Sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't move. Don't move.
D. PRUDE: Yes, Sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chill out, man. Don't move. All right, man?
D. PRUDE: Yes, Sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just don't move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, it's cold, right? There is a light snow going on. And Daniel Prude is naked. He complies and he is put in handcuffs. While cuffed, you see Prude start to get worked up. You're going to hear him. He's going to start yelling at the officers, moving around on the pavement.
Here's more.
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D. PRUDE: Give me your gun. I need it. Too crazy it's getting (ph). Give me your gun. I need it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: That's it. He's saying, "Give me your gun. I need it."
About three minutes into the encounter, officers place the spit sock over Prude's head, after they say he was spitting. Keep in mind this is during the peak of the Coronavirus pandemic in New York. Spit sock can definitely minimize exposure.
Prude gets more agitated because they just put the hood on his head. You're hearing him. The officers demand he lay down. He starts to try and get up. That's when three officers physically pin him down.
Here is a piece of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. PRUDE: Jesus Chris, I'm afraid.
Take this (BEEP) off my face. I mean it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I got him. I got him. I'm already in there.
D. PRUDE: You're trying to kill me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: One officer did have his knee on Prude's back. The other is holding his head on the pavement. The entire time, the spit sock remains on his head.
A third officer can be seen putting his weight on Prude's head. Prude, at this point, does - you know, it's a matter of subjectivity, but he does appear to be struggling to breathe. During the struggle, officers realize Prude appears to have vomited.
Soon after, paramedics come in to assist.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he have a pulse?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A pulse? No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Start CPR.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: They perform CPR for 2 minutes. Prude was pronounced brain dead at the hospital. He died about a week later. As for the case, the family is planning to file a wrongful death suit. The Police Union says it has concerns but still gathering information.
The Mayor today suspended all officers involved, and had some tough words for the Police Chief for not informing City Hall earlier that this wasn't a drug overdose in police custody, as she says she had been led to believe.
Here's that piece.
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MAYOR LOVELY WARREN, (D) ROCHESTER, NEW YORK: I have addressed with the Police Chief how deeply and personally and professionally disappointed I am, for him failing to fully and accurately inform me about what occurred with Mr. Prude.
Our response to him was wrong. And we need to change how we deal with these situations going forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: An independent investigation is being handled, by State Law, by the New York Attorney General, who is promising to be, quote, swift and thorough. The Rochester Police Department is conducting a separate internal investigation, although a previous one preliminarily found the officers' actions appeared to be appropriate.
Tonight, Joe Prude, Daniel's brother, the one who called the police for help, joins me along with an attorney for the family. I wanted to give you the read-out of how this went down first.
We'll discuss with these two gentlemen, next.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: Daniel Prude's death during an encounter with Rochester Police can't be treated as an isolated case. There are just too many families feeling like my next guest. His brother, Joe Prude, is with me, along with the family's attorney, Elliot Dolby-Shields.
Gentlemen, thank you both for joining me.
Joe, I am very sorry for your loss. I'm sorry to meet you under these circumstances.
J. PRUDE: Thank you.
CUOMO: Joe - and Counselor, you come in as you feel relevant, OK?
Joe, when you called the police that night, why?
J. PRUDE: Well, from my knowledge, like the pattern that he was showing me, I mean and also with what my sister told me, over the phone, when she asked me, "Can he come over to you?" so I can help him, I mean it was - her knowledge that someone smoked a laser blunt with him that had PCP on it so. Go ahead.
CUOMO: So, I mean, I'm sure that this isn't the first time you've had to deal with something like this. It's very hard for the family dealing with an addict that has any kind of mental health issue. He is a big guy, can't control him.
ELLIOT DOLBY-SHIELDS, ATTORNEY FOR THE PRUDE FAMILY: Chris?
CUOMO: You look for help.
J. PRUDE: No.
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Sorry.
J. PRUDE: No, sorry, sorry. That ain't what happened.
[21:45:00]
CUOMO: All right, good, that's what I want you to correct. That's the understanding that this was a habitual drug user. Everybody knew it. And you knew that this was the only way to deal with him. What's the truth?
J. PRUDE: That is not the truth right there.
CUOMO: What is?
J. PRUDE: My brother went to a party with some friends. I don't know if it was intentionally, but somebody had to either slip something in the blunt he smoked.
And my sister, she called me, immediately and said, "Man, you - our brother is not acting right. I need to get - I need to get him over there with you, so you can see if you can try to get him some type of help."
But something is not right. My brother ain't never acted like this here. So, I told my sister, "OK, if you can get him on the train, and put him over to me, I'll get him the help that I think he - that I think we both need - that he both - excuse me, that we both think he need.
CUOMO: So, this was something that you were dealing with that was novel. And when it became something that you didn't think you could figure out on your own, you called 911. What did you expect to happen?
J. PRUDE: My brother getting some help.
CUOMO: That the police would come and kind of know how to--
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Chris, maybe I--
CUOMO: Go ahead, go ahead, Counselor.
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Maybe I want to tell the (ph) story along a little bit.
Daniel arrived in Rochester. Joe immediately understood that he was having - that he was acting erratically. He checked him into Strong Memorial Hospital, where they evaluated him and immediately released him back to Joe's house. Joe and Daniel were sitting at the kitchen table.
J. PRUDE: I asked.
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Daniel asked Joe to get him a cigarette.
J. PRUDE: Yes, he did. And then I proceeded--
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Joe - go ahead.
J. PRUDE: --I proceeded to get Daniel a cigarette.
And the next thing I know, I had my backdoor slammed. So, I run out behind Daniel. I tell my wife, "I'm calling the police right now. He just ran out the back door." So, in the process of me running out the back door, I lose sight of him.
So, now I'm driving around my whole area looking for my brother. I was on the dispatch with the police. Now, in the process of me talking to the police, they show up, block me in. They stop me from driving around, looking for him.
CUOMO: Right.
J. PRUDE: Telling me, you end up in jail as well, if you don't stop looking for him. I mean how can I go to jail for him, placing the call to you all, and I'm here assisting you all to look for my brother?
CUOMO: Right. I know that they're still looking at this situation, and I want you to know, Counselor also, you are absolutely welcome back to talk about the case, as it develops.
But what I wanted to get to in this is - no question police have a tough job. We all know that.
But your brother seemed to be dealing with some kind of mental breakdown, whether it was just one episode or whether he had some illness to be dealt with. I know the hospital discharged him, but that's not that unusual.
Do you wish that you had a different number to call, so that it wasn't police? It was people who know how to deal with somebody, who is having a mental health episode?
J. PRUDE: Yes, I wish I did have a different number to call, because that number I called that was not the number I needed and that was not the help that I was looking for.
CUOMO: And when they put this sock over your brother, do you believe that he was doing what they said he was doing, that he was saying, "I have COVID. I'm going to spit on you?"
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Listen, Chris, I think that anybody that watches the video can see that what happens when they put the spit sock on his head is - the words that he said, he is repeating the same phrases, but his affect is what changes. He is terrified. He's horrified. He's blinded now. He's got his hands handcuffed behind his back.
And what do the police officers need to do? Take a step back and wait for the EMTs to show up. They don't need to do anything. Instead, they lose their tempers. They smash his head into the ground. And they suffocate him to death.
Anybody that watches the video can see that this was a death that did not need to happen. These officers smushed his head into the ground until he stopped breathing while they're sitting around, casually chatting and cracking jokes. It's horrifying.
We expect better from our police officers. And you're right, we need a different system where people who are trained to deal with people having acute mental health episodes respond, and know how to treat somebody with some basic humanity.
Ask him, "Are you cold? Can I help you? Don't worry. An ambulance is coming."
CUOMO: Right.
DOLBY-SHIELDS: "You're going to be OK."
CUOMO: But look, even if they're - even if they're non-compliant, even if they're unruly, even if they're violent, what do we see when we go to hospitals, and people are dealing with acute mental illness? They don't have guns and TASERs. They find a way to control people who are there. Training matters.
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Exactly, Chris.
CUOMO: And I think that this case is going to be very instructive. We'll have to see what they find, and what the State finds, the Attorney General, James, in terms of what was appropriate and inappropriate by the officers.
[21:50:00]
But there is a bigger question that I hope your brother's legacy is part of, which is how do we deal with people in these situations. How do we help and not hurt? Joe, I am so sorry for your family's loss. I want to thank you for trying to get your brother help. And know that we will not stop listening to stories like this, and what the right solutions are.
And Counsel, you're welcome to contact any time with new information.
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Thank you, Chris, we appreciate it.
J. PRUDE: Right, thank you.
CUOMO: Right. And Joe, thank you for correcting this notion that "Well this is how - just how Daniel was. Everybody knew it." No, it wasn't.
J. PRUDE: No, he wasn't.
CUOMO: This was an acute illness, and you were dealing with it that way, and that's why you called the police. Joe, thank you and God bless you.
J. PRUDE: More than above (ph), Chris.
CUOMO: All right.
DOLBY-SHIELDS: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: Got to stay on long-haul, I'm telling you.
You have a mild symptom. You think everything's going to be fine, largely asymptomatic. You don't know that.
You have a medium case, a more difficult case, things could happen, and we're hearing more and more of it, and it's getting scarier and scarier, and we've got fewer and fewer answers.
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Our next guest, diagnosed with COVID onset glaucoma, what the hell does that mean, exactly, after testing positive in early March. She has channeled her experience with the virus into a group called "Survivor Corps," OK? She connects Coronavirus survivors and long-haulers with researchers, and just as importantly, with each other, because I got to tell you, when there is something wrong with you, and everybody's telling you that there is really nothing wrong with you, or it's something called "Sequelae," Latin for "This is what follows" the virus, it's not very peaceful place to be.
Her name is Diana Berrent.
And I also have Dr. William Li, now friend of show, friend of mine, trying to help me, and help us understand how to help each other.
Diana, nice to meet you, I know about the group well, obviously. And I appreciate your work. I hope it has been a help to you. I know it's been a help to others.
Help the audience understand why this is not the freak notion that this is not "Diana's a one-off. Yes, something happened to her, but maybe it would have anyway, and it's probably not COVID and she's probably trying to scare us with something that she just doesn't understand."
What's your response?
DIANA BERRENT, FOUNDER, "SURVIVOR CORPS," COVID-19 LONG-HAULER: Well, let me tell you, Chris, first of all, thanks for having me on, and you have a huge fan base over at Survivor Corps, representing the interests of all long-haulers, so thank you for everything that you are doing.
As a country, we are doing a moderate job at tracking infections, tracking hospitalization and tracking mortality.
But most people are left to recover, like you and I did, at home, in isolation, with Tylenol and Gatorade. Nobody is going to the doctor with COVID. Nobody is seeing their general practitioner.
It's the first time that we've ever, in our collective experience, told people, "Yes, you're really sick. But don't go to the doctor. Don't seek any medical help, unless you think you're dying."
So, what happens is that we weren't tracking any of the experiences of those people, who were left to recover at home. And what we started to discover, because I've started Survivor Corps back on March 24th. And so, we've had - we have almost 100,000 members now and they've been trying--
CUOMO: A 100,000--
BERRENT: Yes.
CUOMO: --members.
BERRENT: 100,000--
CUOMO: This isn't just people who have COVID. These are people who have COVID who have had freaky stuff happen afterwards--
BERRENT: Yes.
CUOMO: --that people cannot explain. But then they start getting involved with the group, and there's so much--
BERRENT: Exactly.
CUOMO: --commonality.
BERRENT: Right. And so, we started to see, back in April, because we've really been the canary in the COVID coal mine from the beginning. So, we started seeing in April that people were not recovering. And May, went into July - to June into July, and the numbers just started to grow.
And look, the CDC has said that one in three people are not recovering in time. One in five are young, healthy people, who had no pre- existing conditions.
And when I say that they are not recovering, yes, I have G.I. issues, I have deep inner ear pain, headaches. I was just diagnosed with COVID onset glaucoma. But we are talking also about people who are on day 130 of having a fever, of having tachycardia, of having COVID onset diabetes, COVID onset lupus. It is affecting our every single organ system.
CUOMO: Right
BERRENT: So, what--
CUOMO: Now, Diana, let me get Dr. Li in here.
BERRENT: Yes.
CUOMO: Because to be honest with the audience, I was going to do this anyway. I was going to connect Dr. Li, who I met, who is just a very sophisticated researcher. He has his own Foundation, where they do this work, with Diana because she's helping so many people. And I've had so many people reach out to me who are part of the group.
But Dr. Li, the synchronicity here that's so important is Dr. Li is shaking his head like crazy when you're talking, Diana, because he believes that the common link between all of these maladies is blood vessels, and that's what you've been hearing--
BERRENT: Well it's a 100 percent.
CUOMO: --from researchers also.
So, Dr. Li, compound the point.
BERRENT: Yes.
CUOMO: Diana knows it because she's been doing the homework. But people are all saying to me, "Wait, what was he talking about? So, you have a blood vessel disease that COVID gave you?" And I said, "No, COVID is a blood vessel disease."
Dr. Li, what's the knitting thought?
DR. WILLIAM LI, PRESIDENT & MEDICAL DIRECTOR, THE ANGIOGENESIS FOUNDATION: Well, Chris, thank you for having me on again. And, Diana, thank you for having - taking the leadership to organize the people.
COVID is an enigma. It broadsided us, at the beginning of the year, and we're still really learning a lot about it.
And I think we're through the initial shell shock of the pandemic. And now, we're beginning to see some of the secondary sequelae, as you actually say, and we've been actually tracking, with research, to understand what is actually happening.
And we think that this virus is, in fact, infecting blood vessels, and the blood vessels connect all the organs. So, some of the symptoms, Diana, that you are describing, may very well be due to the effect on blood vessels, called an endotheliali. This is kind of an inflammation of the blood vessels. So--
CUOMO: So, Diana's nodding because she's been hearing this, so let's do this.
