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Model Projects More than 400,000 Americans Could Die from Coronavirus by End of 2020; Man Suspected in Killing of Trump Supporter in Portland, Oregon, Killed by Law Enforcement; Biden Talks to Jacob Blake, Meets with His Family in Kenosha. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 04, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ISABEL WILKERSON, AUTHOR, "CASTE, THE ORIGINS OF OUR DISCONTENTS": What is and what is being projected, and to rise to our higher level, to our better angels, and to recognize that we all have more in common than we have been led to believe.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The book again is "Caste, The Origins of Our Discontents." Isabel Wilkerson, you have given us a completely different perspective. Thank you for sharing your research and the book with us.

WILKERSON: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, we have some breaking news to get to right now. NEW DAY continues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: All right, good morning. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. John Berman is off, Jim Sciutto joins me. It's a very busy morning, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It is, no question.

CAMEROTA: Really appreciate you being here.

OK, so we start with breaking news. The key model used by the White House coronavirus task force now projects that more than 400,000 Americans could die from coronavirus by January 1st. OK, that's more than double the current U.S. death toll. This model projects that in December 3,000 Americans will die a day. The researchers say that's because of this deadly combination of the flu hitting and the declining vigilance of Americans. The United States is already averaging 1,000 deaths a day.

SCIUTTO: And this model has actually undershot the death toll in recent weeks. One thing is clear, President Trump does not want to talk about this pandemic. Instead, last night at his rally in Pennsylvania, the president once again mocked Joe Biden for wearing a mask, a step that the science shows saves lives. Overnight, multiple sources tell CNN that President Trump is ramping up the pressure on health officials to deliver good news about a coronavirus vaccine before Election Day. It comes as nearly 187,000 Americans have died so far in this pandemic.

Joining us now, CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, I know you've spoken to Dr. Fauci about his view of this new model. What does he tell you?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: A convergence of frustration, I think. He basically says, look, this is one of those things where we have seen a significant amount of coronavirus fatigue in this country. And there's other countries around the world that have sort of gotten through this and brought the numbers down. We sort of did these half measures for a period of time, and now we're fatigued of doing even some of the basic public health measures.

Interesting, Jim, you'll appreciate. He has been, obviously, at this for a long time, decades. And HIV/AIDS, prior to coronavirus, was something that he, was one of the thing he was most focused on. And he said in the early days of HIV/AIDS, even, there was significant fatigue around that, where people basically at one point said, look, I don't even care anymore if I get this disease. So we're starting to see some of the same sort of things here, and the numbers reflect that, as you just mentioned. These projections are sobering to wake up to this morning.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, as you have taught us, this is a model of where we are now. If we follow this trajectory with these same data point, this is what's going to happen in December -- 3,000 deaths a day, OK? That's 9/11 level of loss, it is impossible to imagine --

GUPTA: Every day.

CAMEROTA: -- every day -- the shock to our system from that. But we're not just sitting ducks, you know, in that way. We do have some power right now to bring those numbers down, right? They also looked at what the numbers would look like if there were a 95 percent complaint rate. So if 95 percent of the country wore masks what our numbers would look like.

GUPTA: Yes. And so our numbers would be significantly improved if we had sort of universal mask wearing, right. So instead of 410,000 people dying it would be closer to 288,000.

So Alisyn, it's interesting, though. How does one look at the numbers? I get that should be an obvious clarion call for people to wear masks. I've got to tell you, though, after so many months of reporting on this, it's still shocking to me that that's the best possibly that we could do. Right now is 100,000 still more people would die, even if we at this point said we are totally going to buckle down and do the right things. There's no way this country is going to do it.

I don't know what it takes at this point to actually say, hey, look, you could be part of a movement that could save more than 100,000 lives if you simply put two ear loops around your ears and you could help save your neighbor's lives, your community's lives, people you don't even know. And people are saying, you know what, screw it, I'd rather not. Where are we? People said in the beginning in isn't an existential

threat when they were referring to the virus, which I think is still true because obviously there's places around the world that have been able to control this.

[08:05:00]

What I'm starting to feel is the existential threat is the human behavior. I'm discouraged and frustrated by that. And I hate for people to wake up to that this morning, but what are we doing here at this point? Everyone is like, I want the purple pill. That's the vaccine. I'm just going to wait for that. You know what? It may not be here for a while. And that doesn't mean you've got to stop doing all of the things that we know will work. Other countries are essentially vaccinated right now, not because they have a vaccine, but because they did the things. They are back to normal. They have reduced their death rates into the dozens or hundreds, not the hundreds of thousands. I think we really are having a reckoning with regard to just basic human decency in this country at this point.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, the president appears to have written it off. His phrase, it is what it is, reflective of what appears to be his approach here. So the 400,000 figure is if current trends remain the same. There is a more alarming projection, which we'll show on the screen, and that is of as many as 600,000, so that would be more than tripling where we are now by January 1st. This is, Sanjay, with a further erosion of and these good habits I imagine. So what do folks and cities and states and the country need to do to avoid that?

GUPTA: Yes, I think when you look at that number, which I hesitate to even say out loud, it essentially reflects going after what is essentially herd immunity, basically saying you know what, just let this virus rip through society and see what happens. That's what the IHME model projects the number of people who would die if you adopt that.

I will say, it's funny, because everyone always compares us to Sweden and says Sweden did the herd immunity model and here's where they are. Well, in essence, us and Sweden are not that different. Sweden may have had a herd immunity model, but there are a lot of citizens who still said I'm still going to wear a mask, I'm still going to physically distance. Here, we sort of have had half-baked measures as well. There were some places where people wore masks, and there are some people that didn't, and as a result, the way that the society behaves, Sweden and the United States, very similar. So neither one are herd immunity models, but both are closer than people realize.

What the message is, is still the same message we have talked about since March. This virus is just a little strand of RNA. It can't jump very far. It's pretty easily contained by a mask. It doesn't like to be outside. It really like to jump from host to host. It doesn't matter if you're in the middle of a protest or a political protest or with your neighbors at a community barbecue. This virus doesn't care. It just wants to find another willing host. And we in the United States have been very, very willing hosts for too long. So wear a mask. Keep some distance and be outside as much as possible. Wash your hands. It's not that hard. This is not that hard. We take brain tumors out of people. We treat what are considered untreatable cancers. We put people back together after massive trauma. This is not that hard. And I apologize, because I know it's early in the morning and it's just -- I have been up all night thinking about this, looking at these models, talking to people. I talked to Dr. Fauci just now. We really -- it's going to be tough no matter what going into the fall, but we have got to do the best we can now in terms of mitigating the impact of this virus on our society.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, if this is you having an uncontrolled outburst I think we're all be OK. I think that you coming on every morning and trying to grab people by the collar and make them understand what we're looking at in the future I think is really valuable.

You just talked to Dr. Fauci moments ago. And you were with us last hour when we had that breaking news about the Russian vaccine. So is this a big deal, the Russian vaccine? Again, it sounds like we with some of our phase three trials are further along than they are.

GUPTA: I think that that's what we can say for sure, is that there are some other vaccine candidates that are further along. But when we look at the data, and we're trying to gather as much data on the vaccines that have a lot of enthusiasm around them, the Moderna vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine, and there is considerable enthusiasm that is warranted. But to be fair as well is that the amount -- the number of trial participants that we have actually seen have still been very small. Sometimes just dozens, fewer than 100 trial participants.

So we are making lots of very speculative, right now, based on what we have seen to project that we're going to have some sort of functioning vaccine. The thing about the Russian candidate, the Sputnik V candidate, is that they are further behind. They are using a more known vaccine platform, a human adenovirus. So there's something we have more institutional knowledge about, and so far their data, while it's behind, is pretty similar to the data that we have seen.

[08:10:03]

Seventy-six people have been evaluated. They're making antibodies, maybe not as much antibodies, and really haven't had significant side effects. So it's worth keeping an eye on.

SCIUTTO: Yes. No question. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, great to have you on this morning, as always.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: More breaking news this hour. The suspect who admitted to the fatal shooting of a rightwing activist in Portland last weekend was killed overnight by federal law enforcement. CNN's Lucy Kafanov is live at the scene in Lacey, Washington, with breaking details. What do we know about the confrontation here as it played out?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we are in front of the apartment complex where all of this went down just a couple of hours ago. We know that Portland police issued an arrest warrant for 48- year-old Michael Reinoehl late on Thursday. We understand that because he was across state lines they had to ask U.S. marshals for help, who moved in to try to peacefully apprehend the suspect. They say, basically, that initial reports indicate that he had a firearm threatening the lives of law enforcement officials. The task members, the fugitive task members responded to the threat, and struck the suspect, who was pronounced dead at the scene.

Not clear who had a gun, whether shots were fired by the suspect. All we know is that Michael Reinoehl is now dead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV: Police shot and killed the man wanted in the fatal shooting of a far right pro Trump supporter in Portland last weekend. Michael Reinoehl was killed as officers tried to arrest him in Washington state last night. The U.S. Marshals in statement say he was shot after pulling a gun and threatening the officers. He was a vocal support of the Antifa movement, a loose collection of far left activists who say they oppose fascism. In an interview on Vice News tonight that aired moments before his death went public, Reinoehl strongly implied he was the shooter. He said he believed he and a friend were in danger when 39-year-old Aaron Danielson was shot and killed in Portland, Oregon.

MICHAEL REINOEHL: I had no choice. I mean, I had a choice, I could have sat there and watched them kill a friend of mine of color. But I wasn't going to do that. That was the straw that broke the camel's back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You feel it was totally justified?

REINOEHL: Totally justified. Had I not acted I'm confident that my friend and I'm sure I was going to be killed, because I wasn't going to stand there and let something happen.

KAFANOV: It happened as a caravan of Trump supporters rolled through the streets, firing paintballs at the crowd.

REINOEHL: Lots of lawyers suggest that I shouldn't even be saying anything, but I feel it's important that the world at least gets a little bit of what's really going on, because there's been a lot of propaganda put out there.

KAFANOV: The interview was broadcast as officers moved to apprehend him in Lacey, Washington, according to the federal law enforcement source familiar with the matter. President Trump apparently reacting to the interview, tweeted moments after the broadcast "Why aren't the Portland police arresting the cold blooded killer of Aaron "Jay" Danielson. Do your job and do it fast. Everybody knows who this thug is. No wonder Portland is going to hell."

(END VIDEOTAPE) KAFANOV: Now, on social media, Reinoehl called the months of protests against police violence the fight for his country. We know that he's had at least two run-ins with the law in recent months. On July 5th he was cited for bringing a loaded firearm to a protest. He was also charged in June for driving under the influence and the unlawful possession of a firearm. The big question tonight, Jim, is what's going to happen in reaction to this? We know that there are far right rallies planned for the weekend, also continuing protests against police brutality. Portland is a tinderbox, emotions and tensions are high. A lot of folks here on alert. Jim?

SCIUTTO: We have seen a lot of evidence of what happens when private citizens take on a law enforcement role. Lucy Kafanov, thanks very much for covering.

Joe Biden met with Jacob Blake's family. We're going to ask Blake's sister what they discussed, also how her brother is doing, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:54]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden met privately with the family of Jacob Blake, the man shot seven times in the back by Kenosha police as his children looked on.

Biden spoke to Blake himself on the phone from Blake's hospital bed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He talked about how nothing was going to defeat him. How whether he walked again or not, he was not going to give up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Jacob Blake's sister, Letetra Wideman, and the family's attorney, Benjamin Crump.

Great to see you both of you this morning.

Letetra, let me start with you. We've heard Ben Crump say that this phone call for your family was uplifting -- I'm sorry, this visit, it was uplifting, it was inspiring to meet with Joe Biden.

So just tell us specifically about what it meant for your family and what he said to you.

LETETRA WIDEMAN, JACOB BLAKE'S SISTER: Joe Biden expressed his concern and his care for my brother and our family and the pain that we are experiencing behind this event. He spoke to my brother and gave him some words of encouragement as well. My brother told Biden that he wasn't going to let this break his spirit even if he was not able to walk again. The visit was really encouraging because Biden without -- before we

could bring up some of the points that we wanted to speak to him about, he already brought them to the table. So he wasn't just there for comfort, he was -- he was there for a purpose. And I appreciated that.

CAMEROTA: In terms of your brother, how is he doing and how is he getting his mind emotionally around what his future may look like in terms of being paralyzed?

WIDEMAN: Well, we're not accepting anything yet. We're going to -- you know, prepare for the worst and hope for the best, basically.

[08:20:05]

He has lots of love and support from his family, myself, my mother. A whole host of uncles, aunts and cousins and siblings that are here to support him and help him stand up and do whatever it is he needs to do as a father, as a son, uncle. We're here to help him and be his back and his legs.

CAMEROTA: That's really powerful.

Mr. Crump, you had said that it wasn't just an uplifting visit, it was also substantive. So what did Joe Biden promise he's going to do for the Blake family?

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR THE BLAKE FAMILY: Well, he promised that he would -- if he's elected, that he will address these issues, but even if he wasn't elected he was going to always fight for racial equality. He talked about his experiences through life that have gotten him to the point where he understands just how vitally important it is to not just listen to people like Letetra and Mr. Blake Sr., but to also act.

He talked about the work Senator Kamala Harris was proposing with the Justice and Policing Accountability Act, talking about a need for a national police shooting registry, the need for body camera videos for every police.

So, as Letetra said, he really came, expressing the effective leadership about pulling everybody together to solve this problem. Education partners, law enforcement partners, corporate business partners, he said it's going to take all of us to solve this systemic racism -- and he did say systemic racism, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Well, that is significant, Mr. Crump, because as you know, Wolf Blitzer this week interviewed the Attorney General Bill Barr and he doesn't see systemic racism in this country.

So, Letetra, let me just play for you what our attorney general said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I don't think there are two justice systems. You know, I think the narrative that there's -- that the police are on some, you know, epidemic of shooting unarmed black men is simply a false narrative and also the narrative that's based on race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Letetra, what did you think when you heard those words?

WIDEMAN: I think that it's just a blatant disregard for what African- Americans in this country deal with on a daily basis. I myself have dealt with this type of racial profiling and police brutality multiple times in my life. I'm not a criminal.

You know, I don't -- I'm not out here doing things that would cause attention from the police, but yet, I receive negative attention from the police all the time because of the color of my skin. I have been called the "N" word by police just at a normal traffic stop. I've had police hide their badge numbers from me so that I couldn't report the things that they've done.

Until you have lived in the shoes of an African-American, you know, you can't really say what is happening for sure. Come over to our side. Come and speak to us, come and hear what's going on in our communities and our lives before you make that type of judgment.

CAMEROTA: I don't think that's too much to ask.

Letetra Wideman, thank you very much. Thanks for giving us an update on all this and how your family is coping.

And, Benjamin Crump, thank you very much. Obviously, we continue to follow this case very closely.

CRUMP: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Up next, Joe Biden's long journey to become the Democratic nominee, how his first Senate race decades ago helped the candidate that you see today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:55]

CAMEROTA: OK, we're 60 days away from the presidential election and the final sprint in the race between President Trump and Joe Biden. A pair of new documentaries tell the story of both men. Joe Biden's first Senate race in 1972 proved to be a pivotal point in his decades- long journey to try to become the Democratic nominee.

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Biden was confident he could talk his way into voters' hearts but what Kaufman saw was bleak. TED KAUFMAN, BIDEN LONGTIME AIDE: On Labor Day, we did a big time

poll. And you know what the number was, 47 percent for Boggs, 19 percent for Biden.

BORGER: But it was also the first year 18 year olds could vote, and young voters saw a candidate who was promising that he understands what's happening today.

Fifty years later, this time as a political elder trying to connect with young voters, it's still his mantra.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): They have this funny feeling that Caleb Boggs, just his heart wasn't in it. He had been talked into running one more time by Richard Nixon.

BORGER: And then --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We snuck up on him. Boggs, this was the Nixon landslide year, everybody expected no Democrat to win and that was the truth.

BIDEN: We won by a rousing 3,100 votes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger hosts the new documentary and joins us now.

Gloria, great to see you.

BORGER: Good to see you.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, putting it in the time line is really interesting. He was 29.

BORGER: Yeah.

CAMEROTA: I'd seen -- it was like -- oh, the arrogance of this young man thinking that he can win, and now, follow that as you point out through 50 years. He's 77, and the idea that he wants to run at this age for president, I mean, he's been dealing with this for his whole life.

BORGER: Right, he would be the -- if he were to win, he would be the oldest man to ever assume the presidency. So, at 29 he wasn't old enough to sit in the Senate. He won just weeks before his 30th birthday when he'd be able to actually take office.

So he's kind of young and arrogant and he thought he could win by shaking his way into people's hearts and he did. And, you know, what strikes is that poster we showed, he understands what's happening today. That was his motto as a 29-year-old and I think it's his motto again right now.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Gloria, how does he view this moment in his career, a long career that spanned a very young first big win, but now much later in life, he's finally the nominee. How does he view this in the span of his political career?

BORGER: Well, you know, he said to me, look, I never expected to run this time. The Senate gave him a huge good-bye, thinking his career was over at the end of the Obama administration. And he didn't really think about running. He was doing fine. You know, giving speeches, doing his cancer moonshot, writing books.

And then came Charlottesville and he said, I think I have got to do it. I just think I've got to do it. So it's a career that in a way is just sort of come full circle and he understands that if he grabs that brass.