Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Reports Indicate President Trump Pressuring FDA To Approve Coronavirus Vaccine Before Election; Companies Working To Develop Coronavirus Vaccine Pledge To Not Seek FDA Approval Until Vaccines Are Safe And Effective; Wildfires Continue To Devastate Parts Of California; President Trump Blasts John Kelly On Reports Of Him Calling War Dead Losers And Suckers. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 07, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Record heat and raging wildfires, more than 2 million acres have burned this year, the most every.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The intensity of the heat is just crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three of the four largest fires in California history are burning right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No rainfall, dry conditions, that is just fuel to ignite more fires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is a special Labor Day edition of NEW DAY. Alisyn is off. How special is it? Erica Hill is with me here this morning.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Ah, J.B.

BERMAN: That's special.

HILL: So special.

BERMAN: That's great.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: All right, it is a holiday weekend, which is a good thing because you get an extra day, but for scientists and infectious disease doctors it's like a big flashing danger sign. Why? Because of the celebrations we saw on Memorial Day and the Fourth of July, and then this just this weekend in San Francisco, people clearly not social distancing, not obeying the rules they are supposed to, and there is concern this could lead to a new spike in cases and maybe even ultimately deaths.

Colleges this morning remain a big source of the virus spread. Thousands of cases in all 50 states are now being linked to the reopening of colleges and universities.

HILL: On the vaccine front, there's new reporting about President Trump putting pressure on health officials for a coronavirus vaccine before Election Day. This as "The Wall Street Journal" reports at least three of the companies who are working to develop a coronavirus vaccine are joining forces in an unusual pledge. They have promised not to seek approval before the vaccines have been proven safe and effective.

BERMAN: Joining us now is Dr. John Paschen. He's the chairman of the Story County Iowa Board of Health, and Dr. Martin Burke, professor of chemistry at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and one of the developers of the saliva-based coronavirus test.

And Dr. Burke, I want to start with you on this point, because you are testing the heck out of students at your university. You're testing the heck out of everyone there, and it's making a big difference. What's the goal here and why and how is it different than we're seeing just over the state line in Iowa?

DR. MARTIN BURKE, PROFESSOR OF CHEMISTRY, UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AT URBANA-CHAMPAIGN: Thanks, John. So these are clearly very challenging times, and yes, we are testing fast and frequently. And I'm very happy to tell you that we think it's working. So we have tremendous students at the University of Illinois, and most of them want to do their part to make this work.

Just last weekend we did have some of our students make some really bad choices, but with fast, frequent testing we were able to see this early, make corrective actions. And, again, the overwhelming majority of our students want to get this right, so they were the strongest drivers of getting their fellow students to really get back into making a difference in a positive way, and we feel that now our numbers are coming down and things are back on track.

So I think it really shows us that fast, frequent testing can work, and really great students who step up and do their part can really make a difference.

HILL: You're certainly serving for a model for so many folks around the country as they look at this. What we're seeing in other areas of the country are really a cause for concern. In Iowa City, which we know is now a hot spot, there's concern growing in Ames, Iowa, as well, as we know.

And from what I understand, Dr. Paschen, initially you saw cases riding in young people. You saw it in athletes at Iowa State, but you also saw the progression of the virus being passed to older people and to different age groups. Where do you stand now? What's your major concern as kids have been back for a little bit?

DR. JOHN PASCHEN, CHAIRMAN, STORY COUNTY BOARD OF HEALTH: Well, at this point, what we're the most concerned about is that while our greatest majority of cases in Ames, Iowa, which is the major population area in Story County, is in the age group of 18 to 25. But now we're starting to see an uptick in patients that are older than 25, which tells us that the disease is starting to leave the student population and go into the general population of the county.

The last time we saw this same pattern was back around Memorial Day, where some student athletes came back, we had the Memorial Day holidays, and that was when we had our first surge in the county. It took about three weeks before it started to spread into the general population. It then got into a local nursing home and 10 people died.

BERMAN: Sadly, this is the pattern that we saw across the country, particularly after Memorial Day, where it was young people going to bars that were the first to catch it, but then it was spreading, which led to the hospitalizations and led to fatalities. And Dr. Burke, when we look back at the beginning of this pandemic, we always knew we were deficient in testing, and the lack of testing -- reliable, rapid, plentiful testing is one of the reasons the virus was able to spread.

You're testing everyone twice a week, correct, whether they're symptomatic or not, and that gives you a leg up. That puts you on, I think, to use another metaphor, on the front foot against this virus constantly as opposed to just being reactive all the time.

[08:05:04]

BURKE: Sure. So we've seen that happen now just this past week, as I mentioned. So yes, we're testing everyone, all of our faculty, students and staff twice per week. And that really caused two things to happen. The first is we saw the consequences of these behavioral choices very quickly. And as a result, we were able to get the word out very quickly.

And again, we have fantastic students at Illinois, and they want to do the right thing, and they're very proud that the University of Illinois is now being viewed as a model for how we could reopen and stay open as safely as possible. And so we were able to get the word out very fast. They responded. And then we were able to turn our testing to go on offense, rapidly find people who were infected, help them get safely isolated, and this can work.

And so fast, frequent testing combined with rapid isolation and really helping remove those individuals from the population so they don't spread it very quickly, we're very hopeful that this type of a program can be effective.

HILL: Dr. Burke, how long do you keep the testing up? Is this just indefinite at this point?

BURKE: We figure we're in this for years. This is a very challenging time, and so we're dug in for the long haul. We think the combination of really innovating on the testing front, combined with increased understanding from individuals and groups around how their choices around socialization really can make a tremendous impact, the testing is always getting better. There are so many recent reports of really exciting improvements in

innovation around how we could do fast and frequent testing much more broadly. So we think there's real reason for hope that this type of fast, frequent testing combined with smart choices about how we socialize really does provide us a path for getting back to so many of the things that we're missing out on and we're all looking forward to.

BERMAN: I just want people to know what a vast difference it is, what's happening there and then what's happening around the country even as you hear people in the administration brag about the amount of testing now. Think how that would scale up to the country. You're testing everyone twice, whether they're symptomatic or not. So the tests that you're seeing now have to be 50 or 60-fold, I would think, before we even get anywhere near that, and it's just not happening.

Dr. Paschen I want to ask you about vaccines, because there is also concern this morning, some of the major pharmaceutical companies have come out with a statement saying we're not going to ask for approval from the FDA until we're convinced that our vaccines are safe.

The reason they're doing that is because there's this reporting from CNN and others that the president is putting pressure on the FDA and others to give emergency use authorization to a vaccine maybe before it completes the phase three trials. What would that do? What is this whole concept of rushing a vaccine do to the idea of public trust in a vaccine?

PASCHEN: It's a very good question. A bad vaccine is worse than no vaccine. I'll go back to the swine flu vaccine that they developed and they gave people very rapidly, and it made people sicker than the actual influenza at that time. And because of that vaccine back in, I think it was in the 70s, people still say every time I get a flu vaccine -- or maybe in the 80s -- that every time I get a flu vaccine, I get sick.

And they're still saying that to this day even though data has shown that people do not get sick with the inactivated flu vaccine. So a bad vaccine is worse than no vaccine. So I applaud that decision by the vaccine manufacturers to do that.

I feel that a vaccine is the way we're going to get this under control, and I'm looking forward to having a vaccine for my colleagues, who are on the front line, as well as people who are at high risk.

BERMAN: Dr. Paschen, Dr. Burke, thank you both for the work and thank you both so much for being with us this morning.

BURKE: Great, thanks.

PASCHEN: Thank you very much.

HILL: Breaking overnight, California's governor declaring a state of emergency amid the worst wildfires on record. The fires burning as the state deals with an historic heat wave. CNN's Kyung Lah is live for us this morning in one of the areas dealing with the fires, and we see there right behind you, Kyung.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, this is just one corner of what firefighters are dealing with here in southern California. This is a 7,000-plus acre fire, 600 personnel working to knock this fire down. And all of this started by accident here, at least this one. It was a family, they lit some pyrotechnics as part of a gender reveal party, and that's what sparked this wildfire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAH: Rare and deadly heat at more than 120 degrees, bone-dry winds exacerbating flames, and almost 2.1 million acres burned. California's wildfires this year have become the worst in state history, and it is only September.

[08:10:09]

A rapidly spreading fire tore through the Sierra National Forest, trapping hundreds of people at a recreation area.

TYSON POGUE, MADERA COUNTY SHERIFF: And the situation can only be described as hellish conditions out there for those poor people.

LAH: At least 224 were rescued from the Mammoth Pool Reservoir Area after the Creek Fire blocked the only road out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because of deteriorating weather conditions, they ended up using great and sound judgment by allowing as many people as they could possibly fit on the helicopter on the second turn, and safely evacuated all of those, and then wanted to make an attempt for a third turn to get the remaining personnel out.

LAH: About 20 evacuees had injuries from broken bones to burns. Two were carried out on stretchers. Hiking nearby, Juliana Park said the fire moved in so fast, a forest ranger instructed them to drive through it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just keep going.

JULIANA PARK, ESCAPED CAMP FIRE: And it was actually per her instruction that we drove through that fire. She said it was the only way down, and it hadn't yet crossed the road, and that we just had to drive through it. I think if we had stayed just 10 minutes more, we might not have been so lucky.

LAH: From Friday night until Sunday morning the Creek Fire alone burned 45,000 acres. Even with hundreds of firefighters and air drops, the fire remains at zero percent containment, out of control. California's governor urged residents to conserve energy to avoid severe power shortages and rolling blackouts.

Gavin Newsom's office tweeted steps, asking Californians to conserve energy. And this is all happening amid a pandemic. The Cal Guard's 95th Civil Support team set up a mobile laboratory for COVID-19 tests as rescuers try to work safely. Through the merciless challenges, California's rescuers remain positive and continue to push ahead.

SKY CORNELL, SPOKESMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY FIRE: Whenever you have conditions that are in the three-digits and they're across so many different areas within our jurisdiction, within L.A. County fire, you're always going to be on edge a little bit. But this is something that we prepare for. This is something that we train for. This is something that we're ready for, and we'll handle that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH: Here is some sobering news, though. We are still here in the state of California still weeks away from the peak. That's not expected until October or November. The good news today, though, Erica, is that the weather is improving. It will be a little cooler. Temperatures expected to be in the mid to upper 90s here. Erica?

HILL: Amazing that that is something to look forward to in terms of temperatures. A long haul ahead, as you point out. Kyung, thank you.

A new book claims one top official in President Trump's White House did more to stop him from acting on his worst impulses than any other. Those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:28]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know John Kelly. He was with me -- didn't do a good job. Had no temperament and ultimately, he was petered out. He got -- he was exhausted.

This man was totally exhausted. He wasn't even able to function in the last number of months. He got eaten up in this world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: President Trump blasting former Chief of Staff John Kelly, retired four-star Marine General suggesting someone like him could have been behind the explosive story in "The Atlantic" alleging that the President called American war dead losers and suckers.

Kelly is also portrayed as one of the top administration officials who tried to stop the President from acting on his own worst impulses. In Michael Schmidt's new book, which is out right now, "Donald Trump versus the United States: Inside the Struggle to Stop a President."

And joining is now is Michael Schmidt, "New York Times" Washington correspondent. Michael, great to have you here. Thanks for being with us. Congratulations on this wonderful, new book, which is a fascinating read.

Don McGahn, former White House counsel and Jim Comey, obviously, former F.B.I. Director, they are kind of the main characters here along with the President throughout the book, but General Kelly is such a compelling, supporting character in this book, and in fact, in the preface of the entire book you write, quote: "If you score the Trump administration, there are probably people like John Kelly who did more to stop trump than McGahn did."

So John Kelly you say did a lot to stop Trump. What do you mean by that?

MICHAEL SCHMIDT, "NEW YORK TIMES" WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Kelly was there on a day-to-day basis to be that guardrail that stood up to Trump. McGahn, who was the White House's top lawyer and had so many falling outs with the President that he wasn't seeing him as much as Kelly was, who was essentially running the day-to-day operations of the White House.

And Kelly threw himself at stopping Trump for as long as Kelly could, until the point that he basically gave up and said I've done all that I could.

I found out two things in reporting for the book that I thought were remarkable that Kelly stopped. The first thing was that when Kelly was at the Department of Homeland Security, the President asked him to be the F.B.I. Director. The President had just fired Jim Comey and now wanted him to take over, but Trump said to Kelly, "I need you to be loyal to me."

He gave him the same type of loyalty oath that he had given Comey who he just fired for not doing what he wanted. The second thing which I think Kelly will probably see as one of the greatest accomplishments of his time was stopping Trump from pulling out of NATO.

The President wanted to pull out of NATO, that obviously would have been hugely beneficial to Russia, but Kelly was able to stop that, and in a very unusual way, Kelly sees the things that he stopped as his greatest accomplishment for when he was in the White House.

BERMAN: It's interesting, because you brought up and you've written about recently the episode with the F.B.I. and John Kelly where the President was asking for John Kelly's loyalty.

Where does General Kelly cede that loyalty? To whom or what does he give that loyalty?

SCHMIDT: What Kelly could never understand about Trump was the issue of loyalty. Trump never could get that someone like Kelly or the other generals that were around the President were going to be loyal to the Constitution and the rule of law, and not the President personally.

Trump just never understood that. He never understood that with Jeff Sessions, his first Attorney General who recused himself from the Russia investigation, something the President openly said was the most disloyal thing that someone had ever done to him.

[08:20:15]

SCHMIDT: And as Kelly spent all this time with the President, as his Chief of Staff, as that guardrail, Trump just never got it. He just never understood that people like Kelly were not going to go that extra mile, that extra line just for Trump, just for personal reasons, and it was just a remarkable, remarkable phenomenon feature of his time.

BERMAN: Let me read another excerpt from the book here talking about the attitudes within the White House. You write: "Kelly and McGahn (Don McGhan) felt as though they tolerated more petulant and self- destructive behavior from the President than anyone to have ever held the position of White House Chief of Staff and White House counsel."

"Between policing Trump's ignorance of presidential traditions and norms of conduct and his obsession with settling scores and fighting with the media, both men felt as if they had time for little else. They were forces for good, they believed, and they resented having to serve as the bad cops for the whims and ethical lapses of the family." In quotation marks there.

So that's how John Kelly you write felt at the time. How does he feel now? Do we know what he feels now? Because the reason I think this is so interesting, your book, in this moment, obviously "The Atlantic" story just came out. John Kelly is referred to in it, but not quoted. So what would it take for John Kelly to come out and speak publicly now do you think?

SCHMIDT: I think that John Kelly first and foremost sees himself as a former General and does not want to be out there amid the political fray. I think he thinks it's probably dangerous for a former General to be weighing in politically endorsing candidates, getting involved in a campaign or an election. I think that's probably the last thing that he would ever want to do.

I think politics for someone like him who served is something they want absolutely nothing to do with. They don't want to talk about their political opinions and don't want to get in the cross-fire of anything, in any type of campaign like that.

And what I think you were highlighting there in the book is this phenomenon that I write about in the book, which is that for much of American history, we've focused on how our Presidents use power and what that says about the President -- the time and the moment, and the people around the President, who help the President do that.

In this presidency, because of Trump's such unusual use of power, we see the people around the President trying to stop him, trying to contain him, and what is that like? How unusual is that?

And from a human experience, if you're a John Kelly, if you're a Don McGahn or if you're Jim Comey, what is it like to be inside that position to stand between the President and the abyss, and truly be the last line of defense.

BERMAN: Do you think we'll hear from him between now and November 3rd?

SCHMIDT: I don't know. I'm not completely convinced that we would. I think that if you're someone like Kelly, you just kind of want to keep your mouth shut, let things play out, and someday, long, months, years from now, you can come out and you can talk about what happened from a historical perspective.

But I think that idea -- because the thing is that not only would they be attacked by the President, but these -- people like John Kelly don't want to be used by any political party for anything.

My guess is that if Hillary Clinton had become elected, John Kelly would have served as her Chief of Staff if she had asked him to do that. That's the way that John Kelly looks at service and looks at government.

BERMAN: I have to let you go fairly soon, but that quote that I read was actually referring specifically in some cases to Jared Kushner and the fact that John Kelly was in this long-term battle to keep him from getting the top level security clearance, the battle he lost, right, because the President ultimately intervened, which Jared Kushner and his lawyer, as you note, lied about at the moment, in terms of how it all happened.

One of the things you write, and it doesn't come out in the book and I'm curious whether you have reporting on it is why Jared Kushner, why the intelligence agencies did not want to grant Jared Kushner the top level security clearance. Has that ever become crystal clear?

SCHMIDT: As you can read in the book, there are the memos that were written to file by Kelly and McGahn around the handling of the security clearances.

Trump had been pressuring Kelly to give Kushner and Ivanka their clearances, but Kelly saw that as something that was wrong. There were concerns in the Intelligence Agencies about them having these clearances, and as I write in the book, there was something very specific, very compartmentalized, very sensitive from the Intelligence Agencies that Kelly had been briefed on, that made him deeply concerned about allowing them to have these clearances.

And Kelly believed that he needed to be one of those guardrails, one of those people protecting the actual institutions of Washington, the ways that we had developed security clearances in years past and ensuring that people who should not have the country's most guarded secrets did not have them.

[08:25:33]

SCHMIDT: And he saw himself as someone that needed to step up and advocate and stop for that, and to protect himself, there was a memo written to file that laid out how Donald Trump had instructed Kelly to give these clearances, and this had been done over Kelly's objections, but he needed to memorialize it, to back himself up, to create a record.

BERMAN: Intriguing still, to say the least. Michael Schmidt, the book is "Donald Trump versus the United States: Inside the Struggle to Stop a President." A terrific read. I spent a lot of time with it over the weekend and really enjoyed every second of it. Thanks for joining us this morning. I really appreciate it.

SCHMIDT: Thanks so much for having me.

BERMAN: All right, we are now hearing for the first time from the man shot in the back by Kenosha, Wisconsin police. What Jacob Blake is telling supporters from his hospital bed? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]