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Trump To GOP: We Are Obligated To Fill Seat Without Delay; CNN: Trump Talked Privately About Nominating Female Justice; Crowds Fill Supreme Court Plaza In Vigil For Ginsburg; Winner Of AZ Senate Race Could Be Seated For Supreme Court Vote; Fauci: U.S. May Not See "Double Whammy" With COVID, Flu Season. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired September 19, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for joining us for our special coverage. Right now personal condolences and political uncertainty, following the death of the widely admired and deeply respected justice of the United States Supreme Court Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Justice Ginsburg passed away at her home in Washington yesterday. She was 87 years old. At the same time as fine tributes are pouring in from all over the world, the power players in Washington are looking ahead to the future shape of the Supreme Court. Who will fill justice Ginsburg's legendary shoes and equally as important win.

CNN's Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill this morning. Lauren, we just heard from the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Lindsay Graham. What did he say?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're hearing this morning and this is very important is that Lindsay Graham who does chair the Judiciary Committee. He will be in charge of overseeing those hearings for the next nominee. He said that he fully supports the president's view on wanting to move quickly.

He said in a tweet, "I truly understand where President Donald Trump is coming from and this of course is significant because a few years ago, Lindsay Graham's position was that you should not fill a vacancy in a year where there was a presidential election.

Now he is saying since Kavanaugh, his views have changed on that and that's significant because again, he is going to be overseeing these hearings for any potential nominee but look over the next few days, we can expect that the Majority Leader is going to be having conversations with members.

Members who are up for re-election, conservative members who want this to move as quickly as possible. The president of the United States himself. McConnell wants to hear from his rank and file before deciding on when to actually advance this nomination. The question of course whether or not this happens before the election

or after the election and there are a series of political calculations and risks for either move. Now conservatives I'm talking to this morning tell me that they want to move quickly because the concern is after November, things can change.

There are a lot of variables, things are unpredictable. What happens if President Trump loses the White House. Will that disincentivize some moderate Republicans from wanting to move forward with the nomination, if they know that the voters have spoken and they did not speak for President Trump?

So a lot up in the air, this morning Anderson but we'll keep you posted on what we have hear over the next few hours and days.

COOPER: Lauren Fox, thanks very much, appreciate it. I want to bring in our CNN Political Analyst Josh Dawsey joining me now from Washington. Josh, sources are also telling CNN that the president has a name or names in mind already.

JOSH DAWSEY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, the president has a shortlist. Among the advisors close to him, them Amy Coney Barrett who the president had previously said he would like to replace Ginsburg with her is among the favorites on the west but the president has not made a final decision.

According to my sources, we're expecting to hear from him around 4:30- 5:00 today where he leaves for his rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina this evening. So the president will be I imagine speaking on this throughout the day as we go forward.

COOPER: The moderate senators who you know made - determined this, how much pressure do you see the president putting on them and those senators who are in tough coverages?

DAWSEY: Well, you already saw his tweet this morning Anderson where he said that GOP should move forward immediately. We're seeing some reticence from like Lisa Murkowski obviously yesterday but some of these moderate senators, the problem on the ballot is the p president. You see Susan Collins in Maine, polls have shown she's trailing.

Murkowski has never been that close to the president. Some of these senators are not necessarily that swayed by the president. You have Lindsay Graham, another ally who you know are quite close to the present and you would imagine they would want to be simpatico with him.

But some of the more moderate members have not necessarily been the ones the president can influence the easiest.

COOPER: There's also the political calculation of whether doing - trying to get a nominee before the election or in a lame duck session after how that would play out.

DAWSEY: There is and I don't think a decision has been made on that point yet. I mean we have what 45-46 days until the election now. These hearings - have background checks but some of these background checks have already been done on these nominees for their previous jobs in Appeals court and other judicial nominations.

So that may not take as long but then you have to set hearings and you have all sorts of procedural obstacles. The Democrats could do all sorts of things that could delay the process. It's not impossible that it couldn't happen before November 3 but there's also a very good chance it goes until the lame duck and I think the president, McConnell and others are making those calculations carefully.

You saw last night, Mitch McConnell sent all of his colleagues a letter and asked them not to take any position if they weren't sure on what they want to do on when to hold the vote. He said let's hold our fire, not to talk about it in the coming days. So McConnell's tongue is people to be cautious to wait until they're back in Washington so they can meet together and they can figure out as a conference, what they generally want to do.

[12:05:00]

COOPER: It seems to be here Lindsay Graham -- see Lindsay Graham's tweet because obviously you know he has gone on record you know saying hold me accountable to what I said previously. You know politicians are hypocritical all the time on both sides of the aisle but his wording of you know the tweet essentially saying you know I understand the president's position or you know I hear what the president saying, it's not saying one thing or the other, it's just sort of a statement.

DAWSEY: Right, he's not fully committing to taking the president's position there. He's saying I fully understand where the president is. I think we're all waiting to hear more of a delineation of Lindsay Graham's position for him. One of the things Anderson, is that Lindsay Graham is up in a surprisingly tight race in South Carolina with Jaime Harrison, the Democratic challenger has you know run pretty close to him in polls.

There have been several polls that show the race is essentially tied. Now Graham is likely to win in South Carolina and I would say because you know the state is red and is likely to go for the president but he's looking at all these through the lens of also what does it matter for his political considerations because he's on the ballot in six weeks as well.

COOPER: Right, I mean it will be hard to imagine him bucking the president on this, given the tight race that he's in. Will the topic of the Supreme Court impact the Republican Party when it comes to getting out the vote, you think? Is it - I mean it seems like this may motivate people on I mean both Democrats and Republicans.

DAWSEY: Well, you saw in 2016, the president said that the Supreme Court was one of the main reasons conservatives came around to him. He was convinced by advisors and allies to put together that extensive list of nominees and he's already put one out again this time.

Joe Biden has not done that yet and the president has long believed that conservatives our wedded to him in some ways because of how many judges he's put on the different appellate courts, over 200.

You know the two Supreme Court nominees and it's something that you can imagine, will continue.

COOPER: Senator Tom Tillis of North Carolina says he supports a vote which is opposite of what he said in 2016. It's I mean, it seems like - I don't - I'm not sure if that's a signal of a trend among other senators in tight races but I think we will be learning more about that just throughout the day as we hear from some of these senators.

DAWSEY: Tom Tillis is also in a tight race in North Carolina just like the president. He also said not only did he support the vote, he said he would support the nominee because the president's put out a list so you're going to see a lot of these Republicans I think who say you know if the president sticks to his list, one of the nominees from his list, that they're likely to support them.

COOPER: Josh Dawsey, appreciate it. Thanks Josh. As that nation learned of Justice Ginsburg's passing NPR reported this detail quoting just days before her death, as her strength waned, Ginsburg dictated this statement to her granddaughter Clara Spera.

My most fervent wish is that I will not be replaced until a new president is installed. Nina Totenberg is our Legal Affairs correspondent for NPR. She was close with Justice Ginsburg, very close and she who the justices family chose to share her dying wish with and Nina, you and I spoke last night. I've just been reading in the time I have during commercial breaks, what you wrote on NPR.org.

It's so lovely piece and it really, it brings justice Ginsburg to life in a way that I - it's just a pleasure to read.

NINA TOTENBERG, LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Thank you.

COOPER: Can you just talk a little bit about her you know as her friend, I mean. And what a friend my gosh, she was to you?

TOTENBERG: She was a great friend to me and she was a great friend to hundreds, actually probably thousands of people. She had 159 law clerks and she always was involved at least peripherally in their lives and her family's life and other friends lives.

I mean she taught me as I've said this morning on NPR, she taught me a lot about how to live and one of the things that was so incredible about RBG is that she understood what was going on in other people's lives. So when my late husband was very sick for about five years, she would call at the drop of a hat, scoot me up, take me to the opera, invite me to dinner at her apartment with her husband and somebody interesting, anything to sort of get my mind off of what was going on in my life.

And she understood that I had to keep going and that's part of surviving the difficulties of life and she really taught me by example how to do that and how to help other people do that and what your obligations are to other people. And I can't tell you the numbers of people who have told me stories that are variations on that theme. [12:10:00]

COOPER: You know I wonder how much of that came from I mean not only surviving the death of her beloved husband who they you know met in college, at Cornell and married after they graduated but also from the death of her mom when she was - I think she was 17 years old and just about--

TOTENBERG: She was 17 years old and she learned early to soldier on as I you know she - in the - in the last 20 years, she battled cancer a total of five times and you talk about the things that went wrong in her life in the last few years and episodically in the other years.

Broken ribs, chemotherapy, radiation, even a battle with shingles and the shingles never entirely went away, the pain from them never entirely went away and she just met - she just - she had a policy. I don't to depression, I move on and she was so tough. She was this little bitty person. I was looking at pictures of her last night even when she was young, she was a little bitty person and she was so tough she could teach an NFL line-backer something about playing hurt.

She - it was a really remarkable performance of life - of a devotion to life in the law and the devotion to family. The day after her husband Marty died, she was on the bench delivering an opinion for the court because she said Marty would have wanted it that way.

COOPER: I mean that's so extraordinary. It's also just amazing, I think it's so interesting because it's hard - it's hard for me to imagine people's attitudes towards women when she started out. The fact she couldn't get a job out of - out of law school graduating you know first in her class or tied for first year class from Columbia after having also been at Harvard.

But she was - she argued cases before the Supreme Court, six of them I believe and I think she won five of them. She had to kind of move the justices and expand their understand - basically open their eyes to how the law in trying laws that were allegedly there to kind of help women actually was keeping them in subservient and unequal position.

TOTENBERG: Right. So what she did often was to pick male plaintiffs. She was dealing with an all-male courts. People who treated their wives and daughters very well and couldn't imagine that anything bad would come from these laws that often were enacted to so called protect women but denied them opportunities.

So for example she - one of her favorite cases involved a man whose wife died in childbirth and she - and he applied for a social security survivor's benefits to take help take care of his child and he was denied because the statute - the statute said that you can get those benefits if you were a window but not a widower.

And when she argued before the court, she said this discriminates not only against him but it discriminates against his wife who was the principal breadwinner of the family and who paid into social security benefits and it was discriminated against their child who is going to have much more dire economic consequences if that child didn't have the benefit of these social security survivor's benefits.

So and it was it was a very calculated move, it was a precise moves aimed at persuading the man on the court and she succeeded in opening their eyes, changing their views and winning a heightened scrutiny for laws that discriminate against women.

Heightened scrutiny meaning that the court looked with a jaundiced eye towards those laws.

COOPER: You talked about her being a good friend. I read that she kept in touch with the family in that case with the widower.

TOTENBERG: Right.

COOPER: And his child and ended up officiating at the wedding of that child when that child got married.

TOTENBERG: I think she performed - I can't imagine how many - hundreds of weddings she performs.

COOPER: I was going to say, I've already interviewed - I've already interviewed in the last 12:00 hours like four people whose wedding she officiated. Was she doing this every weekend? Was she doing that? Was she like a bar mitzvah with DJ? Was she like oh yes, she does bar mitzvah, she does weddings, she does them all.

TOTENBERG: Listen, she married us. My husband David and I who I married after my late husband died and she married us and barred her husband Marty from calling me to tell me that she'd been in the hospital the night before and the last wedding she performed was for her doctor's son and it was really only a couple of weeks before she died and they came to her apartment and they did ceremony outside on the terrace. That was last when she performed.

[12:15:00]

COOPER: Do you think she - I mean she had - I believe it was you who reported she had planned to retire under Hillary Clinton believing that Hillary Clinton would have won the election. Did she regret that? I mean did she wish in retrospect, in hindsight that she had retired under President Obama?

TOTENBERG: You know I don't think Ruth ever did regrets. She looked forward always. She really thought it wasn't that it was Hillary Clinton, it was that she would be the first woman president and she really wanted to give her, a Supreme Court appointment. That didn't happen. She got dealt a cruel deck of cards in that regard but I never heard her lament that fact.

I think that she just always looked forward.

COOPER: Did she talk about the president much? I mean I--

TOTENBERG: Well, you know, in one unfortunate interview - she gave an unfortunate interview, that she then had to apologize for where she said he was faker but I think after that she really regretted that. It was not you know judges are not supposed to comment on politics and

it was the kind of slip but really I never saw her do before or after. She was very, very careful about what she said. She didn't do um. When you interviewed Ruth, you had to deal with long pauses because she thought before she spoke.

In this case, she said some things not on tape but she said them and regretted them to print - to a couple of print reporters and she was very sorry about that I think.

COOPER: I'm 53 and I'm still trying to eliminate my ums so we'll see.

TOTENBERG: Me too.

COOPER: See if I'm able to do that.

TOTENBERG: But I'm not 53.

COOPER: It's not easy at any age. Nina Totenberg, I'm so sorry for your loss. Just again, I wish people read what you wrote because I just think that it was so lovely and I really appreciate you writing it. Thank you.

TOTENBERG: Thank you Anderson. I really appreciate it.

COOPER: Times have certainly changed. Republican senators are now backpedaling on their 2016 stance that a Supreme Court Justice should not be nominated and confirmed in election year when obvious difference, the political party occupying the White House. More on that when we return.

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[12:20:00]

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COOPER: Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell is trying to justify going back on his own rules. In 2016 he said he couldn't take out president Obama's Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland because we were in election year. Let the voters - the voters should have a say, he said.

This time he says that doesn't matter because voters chose to give Republicans a majority in the Senate. McConnell was not alone course in 2016.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSAY GRAHAM (R-SC): This is the last year of a lame duck president and if Ted Cruz or Donald Trump get to be president, they've all asked us not to confirm or take up a selection by President Obama. So if a vacancy occurs in their last year of their first term, guess what. You'll use their words against them.

If an opening comes in the last year of President Trump's term and the primary process is started, we'll wait to the next election and I've got a pretty good chance being that--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're on the record.

GRAHAM: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

GRAHAM: To hold the take.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Joining me now is Hawaii Senator Mazie Hirono, Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee. Last year Senator Graham went back on that, said he would be hell bent to put in a new justice on the court in 2020 no matter the reason.

Last hour he retweeted President Trump and then said he understands the president's call for naming a nominee without delay. What does that say to you?

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): It says to me that Republicans can't be trusted to keep their word. So in this case and so many other cases, they can't be trusted to past COVID - a COVID bill in the midst of a pandemic and we're over 200,000 people dead. They can't be trusted to protect our healthcare or our voting right so there you go. Republicans can't be trusted.

COOPER: What Republicans are saying as well look, Democrats tried to get Merrick Garland and Democrats would try to do this as well just that they would have no qualms doing this as well.

HIRONO: Well, you know they're constantly projecting what the Democrats would do as they break every single norm and so here's Mitchell McConnell, right out of the box, going back on the words that he spoke in 2016, can't be trusted and he expects all of his Republican colleagues to stand with him to steal - this is what they're doing, steal another Supreme Court seat.

COOPER: So last night, very quickly after the death was announced, McConnell issued a statement praising her life and also saying, he intended to bring a new nominee to the floor for a vote. I wonder what you - what you expect to have happened now. I know you have a 1:00 conference call with minority leader Chuck Schumer and other Senate Democrats so that's coming up.

What do you expect the Republicans to do? Do you - Will they try to get somebody on the court before the election?

HIRONO: They may try to do it before the election or in a lame duck session. Meantime the Democrats are going to do everything we can to fight back to ensure that he doesn't steal another seat. At the same time as a parallel of course, there are a number of very vulnerable Republicans running for reelection. They should be defeated in North Carolina, South Carolina, Kentucky, Colorado, Maine.

[12:25:00] People out there, all the people out there who care about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and all the battles she fought for. She fought for women, for workers, for LGBTQ people that we need to organize, mobilize and vote.

That is the thing that she would have wanted us to do.

COOPER: Voting though won't have any impact on whether or not Republicans actually move forward and nominate and confirm somebody.

HIRONO: They're going to do what they're going to do and we're going to do everything we can to stop them. However you know this is a long game. The thing that Mitch McConnell understands is if he loses his majority, that's all we need to make happen.

This is why I say even as the Democrats are going just for every tool that we have to make sure that Mitch doesn't get what he wants with this new nominee, everybody else out there needs to be making sure that he does not retain his majority.

So if we talk about things like court reform, (inaudible) Puerto Rico, filibuster reform, none of that happens if the Democrats do not take back the Senate. Everyone needs to understand what is at stake and to mobilize, organize and vote.

That is my call to everyone who's watching right now and at the same time of course we Democrats in the Senate are not going to be sitting there saying well you know, Mitch is Mitch. So we're going to fight back with every tool that we can. We are in this stuff for--

This is a battle for democracy and for the rule of law and we all need to wake up to that and we are in this together. I will continue to fight bye along with (inaudible). Everybody else out there needs to fight for everything that Ruth Bader Ginsburg fought for.

COOPER: When it comes to options, if vice president Biden is elected president and the Senate goes to Democrats, are you in favor of trying to expand the numbers of justices on the Supreme Court because it's actually not in the constitution? The number.

HIRONO: So we can change the number. As they say, all of those matters will be on the table when the Democrats take back the Senate. None of those matters will be on the table if we do not take back the Senate so that is why even as we are fighting tooth and nail to prevent Mitch McConnell from getting his way because his entire goal has been to pack the courts with lifetime appointments for young, usually white male judges and justices for life.

That has been his goal with the most ideologically conservative judges that he can find and they're going to be make making decisions on the Affordable Care Act, on Roe V. Wade, on LGBTQ rights, on the right of public and private sector unions to organize and stay organized, you name it, voting rights.

There's voter suppression going on all across the country. Those will come before the courts. Efforts by this administration to try and not count people who are undocumented. That's before the courts right now and this is why who gets put on these courts is really important and this is why Mitch McConnell is so fully focused on making sure that the most ideologically conservative with their ideological agenda get their lifetime appointments and we have to stop them.

COOPER: Sen. Mazie Hirono, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

HIRONO: Thank you.

COOPER: These are live pictures you're seeing there outside the Supreme Court or mourners are filling the plaza. They're paying tribute to the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. We'll hear from some next.

[12:30:00]

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COOPER: People wishing to pay tribute to the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg are filling the steps leading up to the Supreme Court building in the plaza surrounding it, CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is there. Suzanne, what are you seeing and what are you hearing on this morning, this afternoon?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Anderson. It is really such a beautiful gorgeous day here in Washington D.C. but of course, bittersweet tears in many people's eyes here as hundreds have gathered outside of the Supreme Court. It started very early in the morning, as the sun was just rising the flag here at half-staff at this very important site.

And people come from all walks of life, all backgrounds, and they pay their tributes. They call her a superhero, a civil rights icon, and a tigress of civil procedure that coming from the late Antonin Scalia who was her ideological foe, but also her best friend in the Supreme Court.

We have talked to so many parents and teachers and even children have a real deep appreciation and sense of what she did and what she gave to all of us. And so you've got flowers, balloons, you have chalk, people writing in chalk statements. One of the common quotes, women belong in all places where decisions are being made that of course a Ginsburg quote itself.

I want you to take a listen really, to just the outpouring of love and respect for the Justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was As a person who said so much about needing to have a voice at the table and that women should be places where decisions are being made, that was super inspirational to me when like going and trying to be a voice at the table where I am. And I'm just always going to remember that and always going to vote and just fight for things that she fought for.

[12:35:16]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She meant so much to everyone, not just women. She took the words person and made it to apply to everyone. It's sad, no question that she's passed, but it's also, you know, a motivation to keep on her fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And that gentleman, his name is Eric, he had tears in his eyes, Anderson, as he was talking to me about the Justice. So you can just really get a sense of the emotion here that's captured by so many people.

The Democratic vice-presidential nominee, Kamala Harris, was here with her husband earlier this morning really incognito with mask and hat, went under the radar. But she tweeted out a photo later saying that Ginsburg was in fact a titan, and that the stakes could not be higher, that of course, being very, very true.

The Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell expressing his desire to push forward a Supreme Court nominee and an approval before the election. So that is what a lot of people have also been talking about acknowledging the political, the very weighty states, as well as mourning the loss of her.

And I have to tell you, it was back in 2012 in April, I had an opportunity to interview the Justice here at the Supreme Court. And at that time, she was under a bit of pressure to resign before President Obama's reelection in case there was a Republican who would win and the uncertainty about the composition of the court and losing that seat. And one of the things that she emphasized to me was that she was not going anywhere. She was a surprise 79-year-old at the time, and she was very determined, very energetic to keep us going as long as possible to her fight. Anderson?

COOPER: Suzanne Malveaux, appreciate it. Thank you very much. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg death a month and a half before Election Day is certainly jolted the presidential race, it has changed a lot. We'll tell you how a key Senate race in Arizona could impact the vote for Supreme Court nominee before Inauguration Day.

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[12:41:24]

COOPER: Less than 24 hours after the death of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Republican leaders vow in her place for nominee regardless the results of the upcoming election. If they're able to do it before November 3rd, they can lose three Republican votes and still secure a nomination.

If they wait, however, there's a chance the math could change. And that's because of Arizona if Democrat Mark Kelly wins the senate race there unseating Republican Martha McSally, he could take office just weeks after the election well before the inauguration in January. I want to bring in former senior adviser to President Barack Obama, David Axelrod. David, how much more important, first of all, did this Arizona race just become?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. No, it is important. It's one of the things that Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump are probably weighing right now because it does reduce their margin if there is a fight in a lame duck session over this nomination. I think McConnell is clearly trying to figure out, do I have the votes to move forward before this election.

He wrote a letter last night to his caucus asking them to keep their powder dry on the issue of whether or not this should happen before the election. And of course, two senators have already said that they would be opposed to that. And so, you know, I think there are a lot -- there's a lot of numbers crunching and a lot of phone calls going on right now.

COOPER: The -- what's the fate of Obamacare if, in fact, this administration does get to name another Supreme Court justice?

AXELROD: Look, I think that is a very important question. They're going to hear the case after the election. And if they're -- if they can seat a justice by the election, that justice will hear the case. If they can't, then that justice won't, and they won't be able to vote on the case. But, you know, one thing this does is it does propel that issue of the Affordable Care Act very much back into the middle of this campaign.

This is an issue on which Joe Biden has had a big advantage on the issue of health care. And the President has stumbled, trying to assure people that he's not going to do away with preexisting conditions where the protections that the Affordable Care Act provides. But he hasn't been able to supply a plan. So, in that sense this is one of the unwelcome developments for Trump, if the Biden campaign chooses to press that issue.

COOPER: I mean, just politically there's really condemned -- is there anything Democrats really can do? I mean, yes, they are -- they're urging people to vote. They're hoping to use this to rally voters to boost turnout. But if the Republicans want to do this, they can, can't they?

AXELROD: Just as they withheld, they kept the seat open for 400 days in 2016 and early 2017. Yes, if they want to do it, and they clearly do want to do it, they probably can't, unless there are members of the Senate, either people who are running in the swing seats, who are really taking a risk if they go along with this, or others, you know, people who are retiring Mitt Romney hasn't been heard from who feel like it's distasteful to try and ram through a Supreme Court appointment in the 45 days before an election.

And I imagine that there's going to be an awful lot of pressure on those Republican members to not go along with this. And we'll see if that works. COOPER: I mean, Lindsey Graham is in a tight race. It seems like he's already indicated that he is willing to go back on, you know, the oft stated claims he made in 2016 and about, you know, save the tape, hold my hold me accountable to my words.

[12:45:06]

AXELROD: Yes, yes, he invited people to hold his words against him and I'm sure they'll accept that invitation if he decides to throw in with a President which he likely will. You know, another thing that this does, Anderson, is it create, you know, Donald Trump has been trying mightily to distract from the fundamental issue that people are dealing with in their lives right now, which is the virus.

We're sitting here talking properly about the death of an iconic Supreme Court Justice, rather than the likely death of the 200 victim of the coronavirus this weekend. And so this gives the President something else to focus attention on and to try and focus public attention on. And I'm sure that he will welcome that. You know, it also, as you point out, will rally both sides of the equation.

There are a lot of young, particularly young women, who are -- people who Biden is counting on who may be just as exercised by this issue, as the evangelical supporters of Trump are, and some of the conservatives he hopes to rally. So it's not really clear to me how the calculus will work out. But it is clear that any day you're not talking about the pandemic, is a day that Donald Trump relishes.

COOPER: The -- I mean, another part of the calculus and there's many different, you know, parts of this calculus, but is if the election results end up having to be determined by the Supreme Court, ruled on by the Supreme Court, I guess that would argue for Republicans trying to get another conservative on the Supreme Court before the election, because right now, it would be a five to three court deciding the election as opposed to a six to three court conservatives to deliver to liberals.

AXELROD: And, you know, Justice Roberts has proven himself to be a wild card here. Listen, this is a terrible scenario for the country and for trust in our democracy, the idea that you'd slam through a Supreme Court justice through the appointment process and 45 days appointment, investigation, hearings, and a vote in order to try and influence a subsequent decision on the election. You know, we are already straining, you know, to -- in terms of public trust in our Democratic institutions.

This I think would add to that, and that is that is really worrisome. I just want to point something else that this will do or may do, which is, as Suzanne mentioned, Kamala Harris going to visit and pay her respects earlier in the day, she may be thrust into the center of this race in a way nobody anticipated.

She sits on the Judiciary Committee. She is a very strong voice on the Democratic side on that Judiciary Committee. If the Republicans try and move forward, you can be sure she's going to be a point person in that battle. And all of a sudden her profile could be elevated in this race.

COOPER: Yes. David Axelrod, appreciate it. Thank you very much, a lot to consider.

[12:48:18]

As the U.S. nears the tragic toll of 200,000 deaths from the virus, hear what the nation's top disease experts are saying about the coming months, ahead.

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COOPER: At some point this week in the U.S. is expected to cross the tragic threshold of losing 200,000 lives of the coronavirus. This comes as we see arise in new cases across much of the country and as five states see a 50 percent increase in new cases over the prior week. There is a bit of good news from Dr. Anthony Fauci.

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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We still should be getting our flu shots, for sure, the way we always do. But it is entirely possible that despite the fear that we were going to have a double whammy, namely flu season superimposed upon the continuation of COVID-19, that may not be the case.

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COOPER: I want to bring in emergency room physician, Dr. Darria Long. Dr. Long, it might not be the case. Is he saying that because with people wearing masks and social distancing and washing hands more, that the likelihood of the spread of the flu is greatly reduced or that somehow just the flu is not an issue anymore?

DR. DARRIA LONG, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE HEALTH SYSTEM: Yes, Anderson. Hi. Good to see you. And I think the former is exactly right. I think this is a really good sign of what we as individuals and how our behaviors that we're taking to reduce COVID can actually impact flu this year, because, yes, it's masking. Its distancing and also vaccines in Australia where they're seeing lower rates of flu, they're having record breaking amounts of flu vaccination. So as Dr. Fauci said, that's really important.

COOPER: I mean, I guess the risk of Fauci saying is that suddenly it discourages people from getting flu shots, even though he said get flu shots for being on guard. If anything, what he's saying is, if you get a flu shot and you wear a mask and you socially distance, your chances of getting the flu are greatly reduced. And that just as a societal thing, helps many people.

LONG: Yes, Anderson, you're right, we really need to make that distinction because there's still two scenarios that could play out here. There is the perfect storm like you mentioned, where we have COVID and we have flu and they hit at the same time. I as an emergency room doctor, that would -- I would know, that would be really bad situation because we'd be overwhelming our system.

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But the good news is that there is now this possibility that if we take all the steps and again, like you said, it's a big if, if we take the steps to mask, to socially distance, to get flu vaccines Australia was seeing about four times as many people get flu vaccines this year than they had last year at the same time. So if we do those things, then we can impact the flu season. It's not to let our guard down. It's how important the things that we can do to reduce COVID. If we do them, we could actually reduce the flu season this year.

COOPER: Yes, I got my flu shot at CBS like a week ago, so. Dr. Darria Long, thanks very much.

LONG: Good for you.

COOPER: All right.

LONG: Thanks Anderson.

COOPER: New reporting just in on the timing of the possible Supreme Court voted Justice Ginsburg seat. This is we're told the President is eyeing a woman to fill the seat.

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