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Biden Speaks As GOP And Democrats Battle Over Supreme Court; Nearly 200,000 People Have Now Died From COVID-19 In The U.S.; TikTok Drama Ticks Along As Trump Signals Approval. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired September 20, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PHIL WEISER, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF COLORADO: So for people to be engaged and catalyzed is again part of how her memory will be a blessing. And again, we have a Senate race here with one of the senators who could stand up for principle, who could keep his word as to the right protocol here not to have this rushed at the last minute, that's Senator Cory Gardner.

He could be a different type of Republican, he would be an independent voice. This is his chance to prove that's who he is, and if he doesn't step up in that way, I think he is going to pay the price the ballot box.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: We shall see. All right, Attorney General Phil Weiser. Thank you so much for sharing and sharing your memories with the late Justice. Appreciate it.

WEISER: Great to be with you. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Thank you.

All right, let's begin with an empathetic Joe Biden.

Hello, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Welcome to the NEWSROOM. Joe Biden just moments ago weighing in on the Supreme Court fighting -- fight now erupting in Washington. In his pointed remarks, Biden, now going after Senate Republicans by name calling them out for their hypocrisy as they rush to name a replacement for the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg before the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: To jam this nomination through the Senate is just an exercise in raw political power. I don't believe that people of this nation will stand for it.

Even if President Trump wants to put forward a name now, the Senate should not act until after the American people select their next President, their next Congress, and their next Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Biden's speech also coming as the country nears a devastating milestone, nearing 200,000 people who have died from coronavirus. Our correspondents are standing by with the very latest on all of these developments.

Let's begin with Jessica Dean in Philadelphia where Joe Biden just wrapped up his remarks. Jessica, you know, we heard Biden mentioning the pandemic as another reason why he believes a Justice shouldn't be rushed before the election.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Fred, really tying that to healthcare and the Affordable Care Act. There is that lawsuit before the Supreme Court and Joe Biden saying, look, there are big implications here as it comes to healthcare and preexisting conditions. And don't forget, we're in the middle of a historic pandemic, nearly 200,000 people dead. This is not the time, in his opinion, to be trying to dismantle the Affordable Care Act.

He wants to strengthen the Affordable Care Act. He wants to ensure that people with preexisting conditions are able to be covered. He has said that time and time again, both on the road and also here today.

He also called out to Senate Republicans. Remember, Joe Biden was a member of the Senate for decades. It is very important to remember that as you think about who he is as a politician and how he operates, he really believes in finding common ground in bipartisanship and he really spoke out to Senate Republicans today calling them to, in his words, follow the Constitution, to do the right thing, to listen to their conscience and wait for this election to be over.

He reminded everyone that back in 2016, Senate Republicans did not want to take up a vote on Merrick Garland, President Obama's nominee for the Supreme Court, because it was an election year and that was months before we ever got to voting.

Joe Biden saying today reminding everyone voting is happening. I was in Minnesota on Friday, it is already happening there, in-person voting, and Joe Biden is saying that is a bell that cannot be un-rung.

He said on Friday and again today that he believes that the American people should choose the President and that that President should then choose the next Supreme Court Justice.

So Fred, we expect to hear more of this and we expect to hear more about that healthcare point about how important healthcare is and why that's going to be such a defining issue.

Remember, back in 2018, when House Democrats retook the House, that was their message, and it worked well for them. They were able to regain power in the House, the Biden campaign, really believing that as a strong message for them once again here in 2020.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and making that strong correlation between the coronavirus and the Affordable Health Care Act and preexisting conditions that preexisting conditions of tomorrow may very well be related to coronavirus, you know, infections today.

Jessica Dean, thank you so much.

All right. Let's go to Capitol Hill. Lauren Fox there. You know, two key senators now joining Democrats, partially, shall we say, though, right?

LAUREN FOX, CNN POLITICS U.S. CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Exactly. You know, two important lawmakers that we've been keeping an eye on, both senator Susan Collins, a Republican up for re-election in the State of Maine and Lisa Murkowski, a Republican from the State of Alaska have said they will not support moving forward with President Trump's nominee ahead of the election.

Now, these two statements a little different in a key area, Senator Susan Collins making it clear that she thinks whoever wins on November 3rd should get to select the next nominee for the Supreme Court. And that's important, because basically what she is saying is if Trump loses, then they should wait, not confirm anyone during the lame duck session.

[15:05:15]

FOX: Senator Lisa Murkowski did not explicitly say that the person on November 3rd who wins the election should get to select the Supreme Court nominee. So an important distinction there perhaps because one of those members, Susan Collins, is up for re-election; the other Lisa Murkowski, is not.

But you know, it is important to remember that that is just two Republican members. In order to block this nomination, Democrats will need to convince two more Republicans. Who those individuals are, we have a couple of guesses for folks who might be thinking more seriously about whether or not they want to side with McConnell, or whether or not they want to say that this is not appropriate right now before this election. And that's Mitt Romney, a Republican from Utah, someone who voted with Democrats just a few months ago on one of those counts on impeachment.

The other person we're watching very closely is Senator Lamar Alexander, a Republican from Tennessee who is retiring, someone who has always been a student of the Senate, someone who cares deeply about this place as an institution, but also someone who is very close with McConnell, and has not crossed him when it comes to very important party vote.

So, those are a couple of the characters we're watching up here on Capitol Hill, but just a reminder of how fast this is moving. You know that McConnell is having conversations with his members. They are going to meet in person this week coming up, that's going to be very important to watch.

It's the first opportunity lawmakers are going to have to sit in a room and really hash this out and that's important when McConnell is making decisions about timing here -- Fredricka.

All right. Now, that's a lot to consider there. Lauren Fox, thank you so much on Capitol Hill.

So President Trump says he will name a replacement for Justice Ginsburg this week, and he is promising to name a woman. Just hours after Ginsburg's death was announced, President Trump made it clear at a campaign rally in North Carolina that he is going to use the open seat as a major campaign issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So Article 2 of our Constitution says the President shall nominate Justices of the Supreme Court.

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

TRUMP: I don't think it can be any more clear, can it? I don't think so.

I will be putting forth a nominee next week, it will be a woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well, for more on this, let's bring in John Harwood at the White House and John, you know, we saw the President kind of changed his tone a little bit because while he was informed by reporters about her death, and he seemed genuinely shocked, you know, and taken aback, and he was very conservative with his words, he was very fired up just, you know, 24 hours later.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Fred, he is reaching for something to try to jumpstart his presidential campaign. He has been losing to Joe Biden all year, nationally, and in the battleground states. This gives him a different topic to talk about.

And you heard from the cheers at that rally that certain elements of his base are very fired up about that possibility. But we know about what the President is going to do, as you indicated in the toss that he is going to move quickly, probably next week.

His plans to pick a woman for the job in terms of the leading candidates, the most often mentioned candidate is Amy Coney Barrett. She is an Appeals Court Judge from the Midwest, teaches at Notre Dame Law School, conservative Catholic, young, so she could serve for decades on the bench. That's a prime prospect. She was a runner up to Brett Kavanaugh for the last pick.

You've got Joan Larson, who's a University of Michigan Professor now on the Appeals Court. Midwest is a crucial battleground in the election. That would be an argument in her favor.

Barbara Lagoa, who is a Cuban-American, an Appeals Court Judge in the State of Florida. Cuban-Americans are a very important voting bloc for the President. But of course, whoever he picks, it's going to be in the hands of Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell has been very effective for his party.

He invented a rationale in 2016 for denying Barack Obama's nominee, Merrick Garland to vote by saying, well, you can't do it in a presidential election year. Now he has invented a new justification saying well, that rationale only applies if the President and the Senate are controlled by different parties, and you heard that echoed by top White House aide, Marc Short with Jake Tapper this morning. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: I reject the notion as hypocrisy. As I said, the historical precedent is when your party is in power, and the President nominates consistently going back to George Washington, the party has continued to confirm those nominees. So I don't think there's hypocrisy.

Regarding the politics of this, again, the people of America elected Donald Trump President in 2016 in large part because he was so transparent before to list and say, here is who I would nominate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: So as we heard from Lauren a few minutes ago, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski are proposing to withhold their votes until at least after the election. Don't know what they would do in a post- election lame duck kind of vote.

But the real hope for Democrats here, more likely than getting Mitt Romney and Chuck Grassley and a couple of other Republicans is that the American people make their views known in the campaign or on Election Day.

[15:10:26]

HARWOOD: So if they don't get this done by the Election Day, if Joe Biden has had a significant victory, then it becomes more difficult for Republicans to hold the line in support of the President's nominee -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, John Harwood, thank you so much for that from the White House. Appreciate it.

All right, with me now to talk more about the life and times of Justice Ginsburg is CNN Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic. Joan, good to see you again.

So before we get to Ginsburg, I understand that you are learning some inside perspective about Joe Biden's speech that he just delivered as it pertains to the Supreme Court.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Yes, thanks, Fred. You know, I didn't see just a presidential candidate there, I saw a man who had run the Senate Judiciary Committee for many years, reaching back to Bork, Clarence Thomas, and he was speaking to his fellow senators, at the same time he is speaking to the public.

He is obviously trying to energize voters on the Affordable Care Act, healthcare, the need for coverage for preexisting conditions. But that was a real plea, as a former senator and a former Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman saying, please hold off. Please do something that he thinks would show integrity and weight on whatever nomination President Trump puts forward.

He has only got two ways to win here and that's public pressure on things like healthcare, abortion rights, religious liberty, whatever he wants to pitch it to. But he has got this inside game, also that he's got to work for one or two more senators, two or three more senators to pick up.

And, you know, as I said, I really saw him speaking not just as a candidate, but what he has done on nominations, and a byproduct of that also is, Fred, his criticism of this list that Donald Trump put out, beginning in May of 2016, and we just saw it renewed last week.

I have to say, former Vice President Biden makes a very good point about what happens when you put someone on this list. You know, I've observed this from potential nominees that Donald Trump has put on over the past three years, those individuals immediately, you know, pull their punches, they write differently.

They, they either, you know, try to avoid controversy, because they know they're being watched, or they try to frankly, audition to get on the list.

WHITFIELD: Yes. I thought that was very powerful. I mean, it is so intuitive of you to note that he was speaking to his fellow senators, given he has done that before, but then also trying to educate voters on this is why presidential candidates have never put out a list because of that kind of influence that would happen when they're on the bench before actually being potentially nominated.

And then, you know, Joan, we also know, you know, of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's final wishes that she conveyed to her granddaughter even, you know, Joe Biden made notation of that, and he is actually impressing upon his fellow former senators, right, to honor her wishes.

BISKUPIC: You know, that's right. One thing I have just say about Ruth Bader Ginsburg having watched her from 1993 when she was first appointed. I was in the Rose Garden when President Clinton was hailing her is that she has become a more -- she had become -- she became a more outspoken Justice, in terms of Civil Rights and liberalism through the years, but also publicly, and it doesn't surprise me that she would have left that message.

And I know, you know, people are taking it in a couple of different directions, but she became much more of a public figure, and had had some things to say and I think that came with age and confidence of wanting to leave a mark, not just in the law, but you know, shaping the future.

She knew she was taking a risk by not retiring sooner, but she had expected to possibly retire under an administration of Hillary Clinton after the 2016 election, and she obviously held on as long as she could.

But I think that what she wanted to put out was the sense that she would really like her successor to be more in the vein of her approach to the law in equality than what President Donald Trump will put forward -- Fred. WHITFIELD: With respect to her tenacity and her endurance and, you

know, I heard another former clerk who you felt just like you did a moment ago, kind of correcting himself, saying it's so hard right now to speak about her in past tense.

BISKUPIC: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Yes, understood. Joan Biskupic, thank you so much.

BISKUPIC: Thanks, Fred.

[15:15:09]

WHITFIELD: And so indeed, mourners continue to flock to the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court to pay their respects to the late Justice. A makeshift memorial, it is remarkable and vigils have been taking place around the clock since news of her death being announced on Friday.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux has been there from the very start and talking to people and even reflecting on her own personal encounter and moment with the late Justice Ginsburg -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Fred, thousands and thousands of people have been gathering here the last couple days in front of the Supreme Court, and they just keep coming. It is the most beautiful mosaic, a canvas, if you will, in front of the marble steps, chalk drawings and flowers and handwritten letters and cards and balloons.

We saw even as well, there was a man on horseback blowing the shofar, a ram's horn in the Jewish holiday tradition to give a shout out to the Justice as well as many other expressions of recognition and praise, but make no mistake about it, Fred, also a call to action.

Some of these chalk drawings, they say, "Rest in power, we'll take it from here." "We shall overcome," "Turn your fear into fuel." And you have seen these various expressions, whether it is kids who are just bringing teddy bears or children's books.

There was a birth control tablet that was out and many carved pumpkins as well as personal letters out here in front of the steps of the Supreme Court.

I've had a chance to talk to many, many people, and there is a common theme here. It is about recognizing this Justice, but it is also about the next steps that there is a fight ahead. Just take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, this is -- she was revolutionary for human rights and rights under everybody, especially for women rights. And she was a perfect role model for everybody, all the minorities, and she just -- for the Jewish community and for the women rights. It just -- it is just an inspiration to be here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's important to me that my daughters understand the impact that Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg made on women across the country and the country itself and I wanted them to experience this and to have the opportunity to remember this for years to come.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I have a lot of books about her that I read and she was like a hero without a cape, dressed only in robe. And so, I found her as a hero in how she helped with the women's rights and a lot of people found her a hero, and so do I.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So Fred, you heard that little girl saying this was a superhero that was wearing a robe and not necessarily a cape, I had a chance to talk to a lot of young people.

I talked to a young activist named Desmond, he brought his 13-year-old younger brother. He said his younger brother really didn't know much about Ginsburg. He was here to teach him about the connection between Black Lives Matter equality for everybody, including the women's movement and what she stood for.

You'll hear in the background as well, Fred, it's a soundtrack of unity songs that have been playing all day here, really a celebration, but also a call to action to so many people out here who will continue to come in the days ahead -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Wow. It's so nice to hear from all of these young people with their perspective. And you know, you and I talked yesterday, and I mentioned yesterday, I mean, that just that growing, you know, Memorial, that tribute for Justice Ginsburg just reminds me of the beginning stages of you know, Buckingham Palace after the death of Lady Diana. And in this case, it's a celebration of this true American superhero.

Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:05]

WHITFIELD: The U.S. is nearing 200,000 coronavirus deaths, and right now more than a dozen states including Florida and Georgia are registering new daily records of coronavirus cases and almost 30 states are seeing an uptick.

With me now is Dr. Esther Choo. She is a Professor of Emergency Medicine at Oregon Health and Science University. Good to see you Dr. Choo. So as we hit this, you know or approach this horrible milestone, what are your thoughts?

DR. ESTHER CHOO, PROFESSOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, OREGON HEALTH AND SCIENCE UNIVERSITY: Yes, I mean, it just shows that we cannot relax. I think there's this tendency to think, you know, once we have the first round of cases, and we then see a reduction, there's this feeling like we're over it, even though that we know that even in the hardest hit places, we've come nowhere near herd immunity, and we actually have to have the sustained effort and it's difficult to think that way.

You know, it's difficult not to take some short term wins and feel like okay, we can relax and we can start reclaiming some of our normality. But of course with colleges reopening and people just feeling relaxed of the Labor Day weekend, we were bound to see a resurgence and we have, and it just shows we can't drop our vigilance not until we get a vaccine that's widely disseminated and we actually can get to some herd immunity and allow ourselves to return to normal behaviors.

It's just not that time yet and won't be for a long time.

WHITFIELD: And yet, the trend has been, you know, folks relax and then there's a surge. We're seeing, you know, case numbers surge also in Europe and British officials specifically warned just today that a new national lockdown may be needed there. Is it your view that it's too late for the U.S. to have lockdowns?

CHOO: No, it's not too late and I think we need to be really responsive to the numbers and also make sure that we have adequate testing and that we remain really nimble in our response.

I mean, I think we did, after our lockdowns in the spring, we did earn some relaxation in many areas depending on case counts and testing rates. But as we're seeing in Europe, you just cannot -- you cannot assume that your status at any one time is going to be your status the next month.

I think we just need to be really aggressive on testing and on contact tracing, and once there is an uptick in the community, we need to pull back to some level of containment and that still can mean lockdowns depending on what's happening in each community.

WHITFIELD: And then there's the issue and hope of a vaccine. President Trump last week promising a hundred million doses of a vaccine by the end of this year, and then enough doses for all Americans by April, but his own advisers are saying that's not realistic at all.

Here's what Admiral Giroir told CNN this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADMIRAL BRETT GIROIR, H.H.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY: From my perspective, even a few million doses early in November or December, if we have five or 10 percent of the population that we can vaccinate, we can get 80 or 90 percent of the benefit.

For example, if we could vaccinate workers in nursing homes, we could protect the elderly and the vulnerable from disease that would make an enormous impact on mortality. If we could vaccinate our teachers and those with preexisting conditions or those surrounding those people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Do you agree with that math? CHOO: Well, first of all, I mean, I agree with the idea that we need

to have a strategy that targets our hotspots and the places where there's been a ton of spread, things like nursing homes.

But to be clear, when we say we're targeting people with preexisting conditions, that's more than a quarter of Americans actually have a chronic disease that qualify -- or an age that qualifies them as having a preexisting condition. So that level of vaccine we're not going to have and is not on any sort of political timeline.

It's not going to come in a timeline that's convenient for the election cycle or for any politician. It's going to come on a scientific timeline, and the scientific timeline for having the Phase 3 evidence we need to move forward confidently, is not going to be by the end of this year.

WHITFIELD: All right, Dr. Esther Choo, always good to see you. Thanks so much.

CHOO: Thank you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, next. Back to our breaking news. Two Republican senators say they oppose taking up a Supreme Court nomination before the presidential election.

If two more Republicans join them, then Mitch McConnell's hands are tied. Are they? And if so, for how long? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:32:19]

WHITFIELD: The passing of the iconic Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has ignited a political firestorm in Washington over who will replace her. President Trump saying he intends to fill the seats with a female justice. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell already vowing to bring whomever the President nominates to the floor.

The Democrats are accusing Republicans of hypocrisy saying they had previously opposed election year nominations.

I want to talk through all of this with Tim Naftali. He is a CNN presidential historian and former Director of the Nixon Presidential Library, and Meridith McGraw is the White House reporter for POLITICO. Good to see both of you.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, so Meredith, you first, you know, it's something else that you know, two senators say that they do not want to see a vote before election. But what really would make a difference or what really could impact the road ahead is what happens in that lame duck session?

MERIDITH MCGRAW, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, we're really about to see a historic and heated battle play out on Capitol Hill. As you mentioned, we've already heard from two Republican senators, Senator Murkowski of Alaska and Senator Collins of Maine who said that a vote should take place after the election.

And Democrats, they need to have four votes from Republicans, four defections in order to block any nominee that the President puts forward.

But Senate Majority, Mitch McConnell, he said he is planning to plow ahead with this, hopefully, before the election, he is going to be meeting with his conference in the coming days to see whether or not they'll actually have the votes to put this forward.

But hanging over all of this from the Democrats, is what happened in 2016, when Senate Republicans blocked Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland from moving forward, and they're going to be hanging that over Republicans, as we move forward with all of this.

WHITFIELD: Yes, it's still unclear whether that's really going to be, you know, anything big enough to make a difference among many Republicans.

So, Tim, you know, this firestorm that we're seeing, you know, over this potential lame duck session, particularly really has a long history, does it not, going all the way back to Thomas Jefferson?

NAFTALI: Yes. The partisan nature of some judicial appointments has been clear from the very beginning, and at the time when two major parties, they weren't the same major parties, but when two major parties formed in the early Republic, our first ideological transition was an 1800, actually 1801 when Thomas Jefferson defeated John Adams.

[15:35:10]

NAFTALI: The Jefferson Republicans defeat the Federalists. The Federalists were very nervous about what Jefferson would do to Washington. And so they, they created a whole circuit court system and packed the system full of Federalist judges, weeks before the end of John Adams term. In those days, the inauguration was in March.

This was remarkable. It was the very first ideological transition involved the very first packing of courts. So from 1801 to the present, there have been moments when the court has become a very -- has become a focal point in an election year.

So this wouldn't be the first time, and 2016 of course, wasn't the first time. It's always a question of power.

In 2016, Republicans created a new rule, a new principle, and we are very pious about it. There was no such principle that you couldn't install a presidential appointee in an election year. That wasn't a principle. It depended on the votes. It depended on the people in Congress.

There were times when Republican Presidents had Democratic majorities in the Senate and still got their Supreme Court nominee approved in an election year. The issue was power. But in 2016, the Republicans made a principle out of it and that's why they look so cynical, and so hypocritical today.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And on the issue of power, we heard the former President Bill Clinton saying, this is about Republican power, and then you heard the former Vice President just in the last hour who said, you know, it's about the McConnell rule. That's how he coined it.

So, you know, Meridith, how do you think this Ginsberg left vacancy now changes how the Trump campaign plots out their closing argument with just 40 some days before Election Day?

MCGRAW: Well, soon after Justice Ginsburg's death, I talked to White House officials, Republicans close to the campaign, and they all told me that this completely changes the calculus.

One person told me that this is the election now, and at a moment when the Trump campaign was seen as the underdog with Vice President Biden, they're really hoping that this opportunity to put a conservative on the Supreme Court will energize their base and also energize some of the conservatives, who may have been a little skeptical of the President this time around, especially with his tone, but might be motivated to get to the polls, considering just the historic nature and important nature of all of this, especially for issues that they really care about.

And we already saw this play out last night when the President was in North Carolina. There was a new chance that we heard from his crowd, "Fill that seat," it's really going to be a rallying cry for President Trump. It's one of the reasons he feels he was elected in 2016, and Justice Ginsburg's death really has raised the stakes even higher.

And at a moment where we've seen such a polarized electorate. We're about to see it get even more heated.

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll leave it there for now. Meridith McGraw and Tim Neftali. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

NAFTALI: Thank you.

MCGRAW: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. My next guest says forcing through a replacement before the election would tear our country apart and that maximum pressure must be put on Republicans to stop it from happening. Does she have any ideas for Democrats on how to do that? We'll ask, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:42:48]

WHITFIELD: All right, lots of opinions pouring in about who gets to decide the next Supreme Court Justice: the sitting President or the winner of the upcoming race just 40 some days away.

Well, "The Washington Post" in an op-ed has an opinion for you. In this new op-ed Deputy Editorial Page Editor, Ruth Marcus writes, "Ramming through a nomination at this late date would tear the country even further apart than it already is. It would destroy what is left of the Senate's ability to operate in a bipartisan way. It would be terrible for the Supreme Court."

Ruth Marcus joining us right now. Ruth, good to see you.

RUTH MARCUS, DEPUTY EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Thanks for having me. I'm sorry it is under these circumstances.

WHITFIELD: It is -- it is a tough time. So tell me a little bit more about how you came to this conclusion that it would tear the country apart?

MARCUS: Well, okay, let's be clear. It's not like we're doing such a great job of being united and getting along with each other, even without this. So I grant that, and same with the Senate.

It's not like the Senate has been a model of bipartisan cooperation. But the reality is that the contrast between the treatment of the Scalia vacancy and Merrick Garland, which was 11 months before the inauguration, nine months before -- eight or nine months before the election, and the rush to judgment by the very same people, the rush to confirmation by the very same people who did not think that it was a problem to have a four-four court who insisted that the American people had to have their voice and be able to speak and to now ram through so much closer to the election the confirmation of a successor to Justice Ginsburg would just unleash nuclear war -- the legislative and political equivalent of nuclear war on a country that's already divided.

And so if, if a Justice were confirmed, if a Democratic President were to take over and a Democratic Senate were to take over, you would see court packing which would not be good for the court. It would not be good for the country. But as I say in the op-ed, it would be hard to argue against once you use tactics this extreme and this hypocritical.

WHITFIELD: So what did you make of Joe Biden's statement in the past hour saying healthcare equality are all on the line, and people should decide who the nominee is based on who wins the election?

[15:45:24]

MARCUS: Well, the stakes for this replacement could not be higher. I wrote a book about the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation, and it is clear that there is even now a conservative majority on the court, but to replace one of the liberal Justices with a solid conservative Justice would have an impact, and we saw this in the last term in a bunch of really closely divided five to four cases where the Chief Justice surprised people and went with the four liberal justices.

It would have an impact on everything from abortion rights, to civil rights, to religious freedom, to voting rights to just about everything that you can imagine that the court is at the center of and to -- including, as the Vice President said, to healthcare and the future of the Affordable Care Act. WHITFIELD: And while that was her dying wish, you know, that was Ruth

Bader Ginsburg's dying wish -- I mean, there's nothing in the Constitution that says a liberal must, replace a liberal, and a conservative must replace a conservative?

MARCUS: There's there is nothing in the Constitution that says that, and for the most part, though, Justices have tried to time their retirements when they are voluntary, obviously, this is different, so that they can be replaced by the President of the same party.

That didn't happen in this case. Honestly, Justice Ginsburg, if she had wanted to make that a priority, could have decided to retire when President Obama was in office, when there would have been enough time to confirm her. That's not where we are.

And so it's not a question really, I think of abiding by the Justice's dying wish, though, that would be lovely. It's a question of applying the same rules in the same or even more close to the election circumstances and doing what's right for the country.

And I think what we really need to do now, what -- the people I was trying to talk to were Republican senators who have some inward qualms about this. You only need four.

WHITFIELD: Yes. You know, and in terms of that, you know, plan to retire that you were talking about. I mean, we've learned so much by Ruth Bader Ginsburg, because she said it, like she felt it, you know, but then at the same time, we also learned in the last 48 hours, from people who were so close to her who said, actually, her plan kind of was that she might retire if Hillary Clinton were to be elected.

But when that didn't happen, you know, that plan changed, and she was just going to hang in there as long as she could.

MARCUS: Zero doubt and she made just a sort of disastrous, tragically wrong calculation about what was going to happen in the election. And I say this with the utmost affection and regard for her. I was in the Rose Garden on the amazing and very emotional summer-spring day when President Clinton nominated her so many years ago. And to think we're at this stage is really heartbreaking.

WHITFIELD: Right. Another way of looking at it, however, in her passing, she has now galvanized the vote, you know, the impetus for people to get out and vote and try to declare what feelings they have about who should get that next lifelong seat unlike ever before.

Ruth Marcus, thank you so much. We have to leave it right there in "The Washington Post."

MARCUS: Thank you for having me.

WHITFIELD: I appreciate it. Thank you.

And this quick programming note: discover Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's inspiring life and career with the CNN film "RBG" tonight 10 on CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:53:31]

WHITFIELD: All right, finally, it's not quite an excuse for a dance party, but it could be a step in the right direction for some investors. President Trump said he has given his blessings to a deal between TikTok's parent company and Oracle. But a lot is still unclear as Will Ripley explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's still a lot we don't know about this deal that's in the works between TikTok's parent company, ByteDance, and U.S. tech company, Oracle along with Walmart both named by President Trump on Saturday when he said that in concept, he has approved a deal for a restructuring of TikTok, a creation of a new company called TikTok Global in which the Chinese owners still have a majority share, but the American stakeholders have full control over the information that the app obtains about users, and there is a significant number of users. We are talking about millions of people in the United States.

TikTok says it has 800 million active users. It is actually the most downloaded app in the Apple Store. But the United States government says because it was owned by a company in China, and therefore potentially beholden to demands for information from the Chinese government that U.S. national security would be at risk for TikTok to continue operating in its current form in the United States.

This new deal now, according to President Trump would establish separate Clouds that store the information of U.S. users. That was a key sticking point.

As far as the financials and whatnot, other details are still being worked out. The Commerce Department saying that for now, they will not ban the app in U.S. app stores, but that delay is only for one week as details of this apparent purchase of TikTok and all of the other information that we expect to learn in the coming days is revealed.

Will Ripley, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:55:21]

WHITFIELD: And thank you for joining me this Sunday. I am Fredricka Whitfield. The NEWSROOM continues with Ana Cabrera right after this.

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